apparently i have been confused, thinking that locke was going to be a "ghostie" as charlie and what i thought chrisitan was. locke is not a ghostie, but resurrected, coming back to life, on the island. dead men don't eat mangoes; therefore, locke is alive and not a ghostie. jesus christ was resurrected, coming back to life. with richard telling locke "you're going to have to die" reminds me of jesus knowing that he was going to have to die to relieve us of our sins. he was also afraid, as locke was. i'm still puzzled as where ben comes into this. i really don't think that ben was "helping locke along". unless, when he said, "i'll miss you john, i really will" meant that he was going to miss the "locke" that he had been, knowing that when he was resurrected that he would not be the same man he had been. it seemed to me, at the end of the episode, locke was certainly a changed man.

now, i'm wondering if richard alpert and christian may also be resurrected on the island. the funny thing would be that richard goes on and off the island.

unless, when he said, "i'll miss you john, i really will" meant that he was going to miss the "locke" that he had been, knowing that when he was resurrected that he would not be the same man he had been. it seemed to me, at the end of the episode, locke was certainly a changed man.

I absolutely agree, max. I think this is the only interpretation of Ben's words that makes sense. I think Ben knew John would be resurrected.

it would be a miracle to have some clarity to any of the plotlines!;)

I absolutely agree, max. I think this is the only interpretation of Ben's words that makes sense. I think Ben knew John would be resurrected.

Or it could have been another of Ben's snide comments to show he genuinely enjoyed killing him.

Or it could have been another of Ben's snide comments to show he genuinely enjoyed killing him.

It sure didn't seem that way.

It sure didn't seem that way.

Well, you'd have to take it with some very dark sarcasm. When I heard him say "I'm going to miss you", that was my initial impression in light of his spiteful character.

I don't take the "I'm going to miss you, John" as meaning Ben thought John was going to be resurrected. It seems to mean the opposite, and since there was no audience present to lie to, I think we can take Ben's words more or less straight. I guess he felt he should give a farewell to Locke, much as Jack does when he closes the coffin lid after changing Locke's shoes. Just my opinion, but I don't think Ben expects Locke to rise from the dead.

Re: Locke. I too am pretty confused about his new status. He can eat a mango, but remember that Charlie could slap Hurley and Christian can hold Aaron. One big difference is that everyone on Hydra seems to be able to see Locke, whereas I only Hurley could see Charlie and at first only Jack could see Christian (Am I right with the latter case?). Of course now Claire, Locke and soon apparently others will see Christian. But he also had the ability to project himself off-island to appear to just Jack.

Christian seems like he should be the closest parallel to Locke since he died off-island and "came back" on-island. But there are clearly some differences. Is Locke going to learn how to "apparate" (for lack of a better term) and make himself invisible to some people? Is he indestructible because he's already died? Will he be ageless too from this point on, like Alpert? (Is resurrection the reason Alpert is ageless?) Lots of questions.

and it sure seemed that when christian was off island, say in the hospital haunting jack, he didn't seem the same as he was on the island in the cabin or in the orchid. defiinitely are two different christians. christian off island was wearing his suit he was to be buried in. on the island, he's dressed for hiking with hiking boots as well. he's walking around as if he were alive. off island, he's more of a ghostie.
mmpd.....you're right about lots of questions. just when you think you've got it, more questions pop up!;)

I think Christian can appear to whomever he wants, whenever he wants, as whatever he wants. He's definitely corporeal, we've seen him holding Aaron. So, it wouldn't surprise me if he could eat, too.

Locke is in the same boat, I think. He may not have learned how to manifest these powers, to appear to only one person at once, or he has and is choosing to appear to all the 316ers because he knows the island and will be able to help them survive in their new home. His candor with them is unparalleled on this show, and the relative calm of the 316ers is at least partly because of this. Keep in mind, they don't know he was on the plane. They think they've met an island inhabitant, at least at first. So they'll listen to him, especially when he turns out to be helpful and not hostile.

Christian, on the other hand, had no reason to appear to any of the 815 survivors en masse. He appeared to Jack, and Locke, along the way, to "get them where they needed to go", but otherwise he's kept pretty mum. Perhaps his style is simply different. This is the great thing about a change in leadership anywhere - different styles, different results.

Why would Locke hide anything, or hide himself? It's his island at this point; he answers only to Jacob. The people on the island are all, in one way or another, his people. Christian may have hid because he never was a leader the way Locke is, merely Jacob's emissary.

apparently i have been confused, thinking that locke was going to be a "ghostie" as charlie and what i thought chrisitan was. locke is not a ghostie, but resurrected, coming back to life, on the island. dead men don't eat mangoes; therefore, locke is alive and not a ghostie. jesus christ was resurrected, coming back to life. with richard telling locke "you're going to have to die" reminds me of jesus knowing that he was going to have to die to relieve us of our sins. he was also afraid, as locke was. i'm still puzzled as where ben comes into this. i really don't think that ben was "helping locke along". unless, when he said, "i'll miss you john, i really will" meant that he was going to miss the "locke" that he had been, knowing that when he was resurrected that he would not be the same man he had been. it seemed to me, at the end of the episode, locke was certainly a changed man.

now, i'm wondering if richard alpert and christian may also be resurrected on the island. the funny thing would be that richard goes on and off the island.
I have been thinking the same things as you.

I'm wondering now if Richards ability to move on and off island is different to everyone else, caused by him having been resurrected himself, and if the same applies to Christian, maybe when we have seen him off Island, he has actually been there, in the same way Richard has. Maybe Locke will now be the same. Not sure if I'm explaining myself properly.

I have been thinking the same things as you.

I'm wondering now if Richards ability to move on and off island is different to everyone else, caused by him having been resurrected himself, and if the same applies to Christian, maybe when we have seen him off Island, he has actually been there, in the same way Richard has. Maybe Locke will now be the same. Not sure if I'm explaining myself properly.

No you make perfect sense. They very well could be actually there, as opposed to an "astral-projection" scenario, which I think many of us, myself included, have been working with for a long time.

But I still think the projection thing is what Walt can do.

I think that Richard travels through another pocket of exotic matter, in Portland. Remember he made Juliet drink that tranquiliser before they apparently left by submarine.

Ben saying goodbye to Locke could be a genuine goodbye to that Locke.

Locke resurrected and Locke before he died are two different people. Maybe Ben was sorry to see the needing, desperate, easily brought low John Locke go. In some twisted way, Ben could have believed that this Locke needed Ben.

Locke resurrected on the island, this born again Locke, could be the epitome of the character. Locke as he's suppose to be. The most fully realized, gnarly, confident Locke to date. A Locke that's finally, after much tribulation, arrived at a place where he needs no guiding hand. Where he's not susceptible to the same pitfalls of his previous life.

Also this resurrected Locke may be capable of some of the same things CS is. We don't know yet. Neither Charlie or Christian were shown eating anyhting, but both had some in the flesh abilities. Holding the baby, and lantern, slapping Hurley.

Resurrected Locke may be an incarnation of Locke that Ben won't have the upperhand.on.

If Locke kills himself, would he be damned and thus unable to resurrect on the island? Could it be that Ben in killing Locke, whether knowingly or not, ultimately keeps Locke on course to do whatever it is he's needed to do. John serves some function in all of this that's critical, imo.

Ben could have just condemned himself ot punishment and damnation by killing Locke, but if its a necessity to keep John on his purpoted path of enlightenment which may serve some greater function for his people (both islanders and 815ers) than Bens decision to kill Locke is a saving grace.

While seemingly cold-hearted and unnecessary, if it ultimately saves Locke, who may provide some important function (the island needs you John, it has for a long time) than Ben's actions are ensuring the greater good comes to pass.

He may still not know about Locke's resurrection at the moment he kills him, certainly no one's mentioned CS to him, and there's definitely a strong possibility that Ben may turn out to be working against any good or favorable outcome; that he is and has been infact working towards some Ben-agenda the whole time, but there's still a chance, just as good arguably, that Ben's willing to take the karmic hit by making these choices that no one else can, or will or is suppose to.

Merch, I agree it's possible Ben knew that Locke would rise from the dead if taken to the island after being killed. Ben turns out to know all kinds of stuff all the time. But I don't necessarily think that the episode presented us with anything to make us think that, and did present us with some things to make us think the opposite. Of course, it could be misdirection.

I think the issue of Ben being willing to "take on" the moral onus of killing Locke to spare Locke the moral onus of suicide is reading in as well. Richard and CS told Locke he had to die. They didn't specify how. I think the suicide as sin idea is cultural and religious baggage we bring to the story and not something that comes out of the story itself.

So while I agree it's quite possible Ben knew Locke would rise again, I'm still betting against it because of good old Ockham's razor, and because it just seems like better drama if Ben isn't totally omniscient.

Re: Locke. I too am pretty confused about his new status. He can eat a mango, but remember that Charlie could slap Hurley and Christian can hold Aaron. One big difference is that everyone on Hydra seems to be able to see Locke, whereas I only Hurley could see Charlie and at first only Jack could see Christian
I've just seen the episode when Charlie meets Hurley today. It's not Hurley who sees Charlie first, but another pacient at the hospital and the pacient is the one that tells Hurley that is a man staring at him.

the episode was definitely too short and the writers throwing in widmore and ben was just an overload! we are suppose to decide just who is good and evil or if both are considered evil. heh, it didn't work, did it! here's widmore, telling locke that he doesn't have to die. if he runs into any trouble to call him. then there's ben lurking ever so obviously with his beady eyes and hair darker than usual. he must really miss the island sun! why does john have to die? to be resurrected and to run the island? does widmore want that? does ben want that? it seems richard wants it. so, when ben says that he's protecting the o6 so that no harm comes to them, is it because the island depends on it or because they're his friends? wait, no, forget that last comment. every time i think i've figured something out, someone else says something to make me delve deeper into the story and find myself confused all over again. i don't want to think that ben is really trying to help, and if he is, only hoping for selfish reasons. i cannot and won't believe that he will be the good part of the picture in all of this. haven't see enough of widmore to decide one way or the other.

so, maybe widmore knows that locke is special, but doesn't want him to go through with the finale course of his destiny to become leader of the island because HE wants to be. maybe he was manipulating locke.:stars:

I've just seen the episode when Charlie meets Hurley today. It's not Hurley who sees Charlie first, but another pacient at the hospital and the pacient is the one that tells Hurley that is a man staring at him.

You're right! Thanks for the reminder!
100%
the episode was definitely too short and the writers throwing in widmore and ben was just an overload! we are suppose to decide just who is good and evil or if both are considered evil. heh, it didn't work, did it! here's widmore, telling locke that he doesn't have to die. if he runs into any trouble to call him. then there's ben lurking ever so obviously with his beady eyes and hair darker than usual. he must really miss the island sun! why does john have to die? to be resurrected and to run the island? does widmore want that? does ben want that? it seems richard wants it. so, when ben says that he's protecting the o6 so that no harm comes to them, is it because the island depends on it or because they're his friends? wait, no, forget that last comment. every time i think i've figured something out, someone else says something to make me delve deeper into the story and find myself confused all over again. i don't want to think that ben is really trying to help, and if he is, only hoping for selfish reasons. i cannot and won't believe that he will be the good part of the picture in all of this. haven't see enough of widmore to decide one way or the other.

so, maybe widmore knows that locke is special, but doesn't want him to go through with the finale course of his destiny to become leader of the island because HE wants to be. maybe he was manipulating locke.:stars:

I agree that it just gets more and more confusing. I'm on the verge of giving up trying to figure out who's on what side, since they are kinda whipsawing us back and forth on that and I don't know if we even have the info we need to make that call.