Well, there in lies the rub. Since you see no physical resemblence, you cannot see the possibilities and I have to give you that. I'm an artist, you're the scientist ... (Faith and Science ? Hmmm ;) ). I see things that most people don't see with my artistic eye ... small lines, small dots, moles, the way hair grows or is combed, the hair on the man's chest ... lots of little things. Anyway, we truly can have a disagreement on this or any part of the show. Arguments by the true definition of the word are fun and healthy! :biggrin:

The crazy part is, I am an artist =]

I wrote graffiti for almost 10 years and actively draw/paint still. I have been reading mostly non-fiction "physics" books lately, but I would consider myself much more of an artist than a scientist. I have a pretty good eye for detail as well.

Looking at that photo, I cant see any marks, moles, hair, wrinkles, or anything that looks like Locke. Can someone point these out?

And just to clarify, I thought this *was* Locke at one point. I ended up going frame by frame to see if I could recognize the actor and almost instantly realized that it wasn't, simply because I don't see any characteristics these two have in common, other than looking like mr. clean. =]

And yeah, I take no offense to any of this. It's all healthy debate and I am always up for becoming more informed. I don't think people who say "Rutherford is Locke" are dumb or anything like that - I just dont agree and thats what these boards are for...

...Hammering out our ideas until things start to make sense.

The crazy part is, I am an artist =]

I wrote graffiti for almost 10 years and actively draw/paint still. I have been reading mostly non-fiction "physics" books lately, but I would consider myself much more of an artist than a scientist. I have a pretty good eye for detail as well.

Looking at that photo, I cant see any marks, moles, hair, wrinkles, or anything that looks like Locke. Can someone point these out?

And just to clarify, I thought this *was* Locke at one point. I ended up going frame by frame to see if I could recognize the actor and almost instantly realized that it wasn't, simply because I don't see any characteristics these two have in common, other than looking like mr. clean. =]

And yeah, I take no offense to any of this. It's all healthy debate and I am always up for becoming more informed. I don't think people who say "Rutherford is Locke" are dumb or anything like that - I just dont agree and thats what these boards are for...

...Hammering out our ideas until things start to make sense.
I've gotten good vibes from you, sier, since the first day our paths crossed but one never knows on a bb how some things may come across (except for the obvious attacks LOL) so, I always like to remind people that I'm a nice person :biggrin:

That's cool that you're an artist, too! We have kind of our own Lost-Link now ;)

Take a closer look at this man's chest hair and the rib cage and chest muscle that's showing. I think that part looks more like Terry/Locke than even his ear and mouth do.

Also, and I KNOW this is not the same one, but I found it interesting that both men were wearing the same kind of plaid shirt that Locke wears on the island. A similarity in clothes' style ... :rolleyes:

I have a hunch that Rutherford's time of death, 8:15, is a clue from the writers that all is NOT what it seems. I think something is up. I'm not convinced the man on the gurney really died or stayed dead.

I have a hunch that Rutherford's time of death, 8:15, is a clue from the writers that all is NOT what it seems. I think something is up. I'm not convinced the man on the gurney really died or stayed dead.
It's like that old Helen Reddy song from "Pete's Dragon" ... "You and me against the world ... it's just you and me against the world." You know I agree! :24:

They might well have had Terry's stunt double play Rutherford, accounting for the resemblance. If you guys visited the spoiler forums, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Cardie

They might well have had Terry's stunt double play Rutherford, accounting for the resemblance. If you guys visited the spoiler forums, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Cardie
That defeats the whole purpose of this kind of discussion. Why cheat and know the answers (which are not always correct anyway) when half the fun of the show is the trying to solve the puzzles part (and this according to JJ and other producers who recognize this aspect of the show as a vital aspect).

I thought "lift it up" certainly meant more than just the ankle, but I have no idea what it could be.

I thought "lift it up" certainly meant more than just the ankle, but I have no idea what it could be.

I think it's another one of Desmond's religious references, like his mentioning the devil. Google it and you'll see religious sites; example is this song:

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/thousandfootkrutch/liftit.html

Interesting that 666 is the sign of the devil, and if you square 6 three times and add it up, you get 108, the sum of the 'numbers'. I like this article about 108:

Why 108 ?
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/misc/why108.html

I think it's another one of Desmond's religious references, like his mentioning the devil. Google it and you'll see religious sites; example is this song:

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/thousandfootkrutch/liftit.html

Interesting that 666 is the sign of the devil, and if you square 6 three times and add it up, you get 108, the sum of the 'numbers'. I like this article about 108:

Why 108 ?
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/misc/why108.html

It's amazing how so many things connect to the numbers. I can't see how they can reveal it all to us and not wind up ending the show. It just seems like so much rests on those numbers.

Not sure this works. In the episode where Locke meets his mother we find out she was born in 1940 from her liscense. The ER scene was 1997 according to Jack's ID badge, and Adam Ruthorford was 57 at that time according to the EMT that brought him in. He'd be as old as his own mother if he were Locke's brother. He could be related some other way though? Or just looks similar

Great call...I totally missed that! It could then very well be her brother, which kinda makes me wonder now if there isn't some genetic or marital connection between all of the Lostaways, hence, Desmond calling Jack "brother"?

I am coming late to the party... Don't beat me with a wet noodle!!

I think Desmond was a Doctor either for government or a private research project. He said "almost" was a doctor - so if he was doing some "not-so-ethical-projects" he may have had his credentials revoked.

I believe his training the night he met Jack had to do with why he is on the Island. Two ideas - either he knew he was going to the Island so he was training, or he was actually on some other project and also became a castaway. I don't think the latter that much, because he looks like he is in that "bunker" for a good reason.

I think his interaction with Jack is because Jack has a "connection" (don't know what kind) that made him a candidate for "selection". Perhaps Jack showed some type of "promise" in his skills or he just seemed to be naive enough to go along without asking questions, or Jack's Father had made a "deal" with Desmond's people.

I thought it a bit more than interesting that Desmond led Jack into talking about Sarah's surgery. I think Desmond had something to do with Sarah's miraculous recovery and maybe he knew she was going to recover. Perhaps he used her as a "guinea pig" for some type of experiment. A genetic regeneration of nerves or tissue, or muscles, or all the above!!

I think Jack found something out about it and...??? Went along with it? Or hated that it wasn't his skills that helped her? Wouldn't believe in it?? Maybe he was invited by Desmond to go on the original "trip" that Desmond made to the Island.

I think Desmond's "people" on the outside crashed the plane for Jack to be there to help Desmond figure out a way to cure the "sick" people - or cure the people that Desmond has made "sick"!

GL :coolorng:

Great call...I totally missed that! It could then very well be her brother, which kinda makes me wonder now if there isn't some genetic or marital connection between all of the Lostaways, hence, Desmond calling Jack "brother"?
But, again, that info given in the ER was Rutherford's info. That man on the gurney didn't look 57 years old to me. And do this math: If Locke's mother was born in 1940, then he'd have to have been born about 1960 (or 1959) if she was 19 or 20 when she had him. If Locke was born in 1960 (to make it a round number), and it's now 2005, that would make Locke 45. Locke is in his 50s. So if he's now, say, 50 ... that means that his mother had him when she was 15(!). I believe Terry has said, somewhere, that he and Locke are close in age and Terry is 53. So, perhaps the info on her driver's license is wrong. Mira Furlan, who plays Danielle, is 50 in real life. It's clear that Locke is older.

If Locke's mom was born in 1940, and Locke was born around 20 years later, that would make him born about 1959-1960. And that would make him, at the time of the ER scene (1997) 37-38 years old. The man on the gurney looks about that age and certainly not 57.

I'm sorry I can't quote all the exact posters who brought up St. Sebastian Hospital, but just out of curiosity tonight, I Googled "Sebastian Hospital" and found something kinda interesting on the Chile.com website:

LOS ANGELES, CHILE

The regional capital and It is located at kilometer 510 of the Panamerican South highway and at 110 km. south of Chillán. It was founded on the 26th of may 1739 by Don José Antonio Manso de Velasco. Today, it is an imporatnt city due to its agro-industries and especially referring to the industry of paper because of the cellulose industries located in the zone. Its buildings have a audacious architecture, numerous commercial galleries and important universities of the country. Its population is approximately 142.000. The most important attractions are: the Capuchina and los Padres Alemanes Churches, the Los Angeles Fair, the History Museum, the park and Chapel of the San Sebastián Hospital ( declared a national Monument in 1989). At the surrounding areas, we would like to mention places such as: the Villages of Yumbel and Cabrero, the Laja falls, the Las Canteras Estate and the Huaqui and Laja rivers.

I don't know that it really means anything significant to the big picture, Desmond or otherwise, but I thought the major universities and Los Angeles tie-in was kinda weird, especially in light of his "race around the world". Also, when you add the distance up from the two major cities, you get 620 or 6+2+0= 8 and it was founded on the 26th, which also equal 8. I tried to get the mileage too from L.A. here to L.A. there, but I couldn't find a way to calculate it on Google.

Ok....if this doesn't prove I need serious sleep now....nothing does! :biggrin:

I don't know that it really means anything significant to the big picture, Desmond or otherwise, but I thought the major universities and Los Angeles tie-in was kinda weird, especially in light of his "race around the world". Also, when you add the distance up from the two major cities, you get 620 or 6+2+0= 8 and it was founded on the 26th, which also equal 8. I tried to get the mileage too from L.A. here to L.A. there, but I couldn't find a way to calculate it on Google.

Ok....if this doesn't prove I need serious sleep now....nothing does! :biggrin:
The distance between Los Angeles, CA and Los Angeles, Chile is 5760.0 miles(9270.0 km)
I found it at www.askjeeves.com :biggrin:

Now if you add either set of numbers, leaving in the decimal point, you get 18.0 -- or 180!!

You know, I don't think Einstein could have come up with as many connections to these numbers as the writers have! It's just amazing!!

The distance between Los Angeles, CA and Los Angeles, Chile is 5760.0 miles(9270.0 km)
I found it at www.askjeeves.com :biggrin:

Now if you add either set of numbers, leaving in the decimal point, you get 18.0 -- or 180!!

Thank you jbdean! I knew I should have asked Jeeves instead, but I am hard headed and stuck to Google cause it just *had* to be in one of the 4,815,162,342 possible answers :rolleyes: Now I can really sleep :biggrin:

Thank you jbdean! I knew I should have asked Jeeves instead, but I am hard headed and stuck to Google cause it just *had* to be in one of the 4,815,162,342 possible answers :rolleyes: Now I can really sleep :biggrin:
You're totally welcome, dzdconfsed! I was shocked when BOTH forms of measurement came up with the same number. Coincidence? I think not! LOL

I thought "lift it up" certainly meant more than just the ankle, but I have no idea what it could be.

I have a friend who used to say that whenever she had a problem and she needed to let go of it and let God take it over for her, so I think it has a religious/spiritual connotation.

How about this..."you have to lift up the lid of the hatch to let me out.." LoL

Mi

This may have been stated but with so many pages to this thread, I'll just post it now and say sorry if it's been addressed. I grew up in the LA area, from the 60's on the term "Brother" was commonly used especially in the beach areas. Desmond's use of the word doesn't necessarily have religious over tones. I still have friends living in the LA area that use the term brother the same way Hurley used the term "Dude". I believe Desmond to be either Scotch or Irish, The devil chasing you would not be an uncommon thing to say to someone.

I didn't get big religious tone to his conversation with Jack other than him mentioning believing in miracles. He never mentioned God or prayer. I not trying to say that religion wasn't inferred just that I personally didn't think it had religious overtones.

lostbylost...LOVE the avi! LoL!

This may have been stated but with so many pages to this thread, I'll just post it now and say sorry if it's been addressed. I grew up in the LA area, from the 60's on the term "Brother" was commonly used especially in the beach areas. Desmond's use of the word doesn't necessarily have religious over tones. I still have friends living in the LA area that use the term brother the same way Hurley used the term "Dude". I believe Desmond to be either Scotch or Irish, The devil chasing you would not be an uncommon thing to say to someone.

I didn't get big religious tone to his conversation with Jack other than him mentioning believing in miracles. He never mentioned God or prayer. I not trying to say that religion wasn't inferred just that I personally didn't think it had religious overtones.
Both Desmond and Henry Ian Cusick (that plays him) are Scottish.

I do think that when Desmond first tells Jack to "lift it up" he means to let go of it and let the higher powers have it but when he sees that Jack doesn't get it (either the saying because it has religious or Scottish/Celtic connections) he moves to Jack's ankle to ease the moment. And true, brother has been used in more than religious situations but, I think, combined with the "lift it up" it did have religious connections. But it also could just be a term of endearment that Desmond uses, like your reference to Hurley's "Dude." Why? Because he also uses it in the Hatch to Locke and there we see a totally different Desmond ... no longer the calm and spiritual one that Jack met in 1997. So, it could be used in either way ... and perhaps Desmond uses it both ways ... depending on the situation.

How crazy is it to think that these people have all sold their souls and have ended up here together? Jack for Sarah to not be crippled...Locke to walk again? Sawyer to find his father's killer? Hurley to win the lotto? Charlie for Drive Shaft's success? Jin for success? Kate for freedom? Michael to get Walt? Is this their purgatory?

How crazy is it to think that these people have all sold their souls and have ended up here together? Jack for Sarah to not be crippled...Locke to walk again? Sawyer to find his father's killer? Hurley to win the lotto? Charlie for Drive Shaft's success? Jin for success? Kate for freedom? Michael to get Walt? Is this their purgatory?

The writers have stated that they are not in purgatory. Although I def see why so many people draw that conclusion. Just some of the basic themes of LOST point you in that direction. I will warn you that some fans tend to overreact when ever this is brought up, so be prepared..just in case.

How crazy is it to think that these people have all sold their souls and have ended up here together? Jack for Sarah to not be crippled...Locke to walk again? Sawyer to find his father's killer? Hurley to win the lotto? Charlie for Drive Shaft's success? Jin for success? Kate for freedom? Michael to get Walt? Is this their purgatory?
WHAT? OH NO! NOT THAT THEORY AGAIN!

:24: Just kidding! Couldn't resist after bearsgonefishin's post! ;)

I, too, can see why so many conclude that they are in purgatory but it's not the case. :smile:

The distance between Los Angeles, CA and Los Angeles, Chile is 5760.0 miles(9270.0 km)
I found it at www.askjeeves.com :biggrin:

Now if you add either set of numbers, leaving in the decimal point, you get 18.0 -- or 180!!

jbdean....you really got me thinking on just how totally odd that was! And since I have way, way, way too much free time on my hands in the car, check this out....take the 180, minus our main total of 108 and the subtract only the even cursed numbers and guess what you get? Zero! As in Los Angeles could be ground zero for something other than our Lostaways almost destination? Now if you put together the two remaining numbers, you could interpret it as the year of 1523. Since Jeeves likes you so much....I'm gonna see where you can take it from there :biggrin:

jbdean....you really got me thinking on just how totally odd that was! And since I have way, way, way too much free time on my hands in the car, check this out....take the 180, minus our main total of 108 and the subtract only the even cursed numbers and guess what you get? Zero! As in Los Angeles could be ground zero for something other than our Lostaways almost destination? Now if you put together the two remaining numbers, you could interpret it as the year of 1523. Since Jeeves likes you so much....I'm gonna see where you can take it from there :biggrin:
Well, I searched in Google this time and came up with this: http://www.kwanumzen.com/primarypoint/pdf/pp2001fa.pdf And to quote the part about the date:
>>Experience Winter Kyol Che in a traditional Korean
Buddhist Temple steeped in tradition. Home of the Seoul
International Zen Center, Hwa Gye Sa functions as a
traditional Buddhist temple with resident monks and a
large lay congregation. The temple was first built in 1523,
sits at the foot of Sam Gak Mountain looking out to the
east over the capital city Seoul, and is our head temple
for the Kwan Um School of Zen in Asia.

This year, the Seoul International Zen Center will be
holding it’s 17thannual winter retreat. The retreat is open
to all men and women, beginners and advanced
students, who can sit for a minimum of one week,
through the full three months. The guiding teacher for
the retreat will be Mu Shim Sunim JDPS and Do Kwan
Sunim JDPS will be the second teacher.<<

I'll keep looking.

OMG! I haven't seen this yet so I don't know if anyone else has posted this yet or not. If so, I'm sorry if I'm repeating here. But when Desmond is questioning Locke and he is telling him about the plane, Desmond makes the comment, "so the world is still out there". My first thought was all those people that went Y2K survival nuts right before the millennium thinking that the world was going to end. They even had groups or clubs that banded together and people were building bomb type shelters and all. What if Desmond is part of one of those groups and he thought Locke was sent to him to tell him it was finally safe to come out into the world again?

OMG! I haven't seen this yet so I don't know if anyone else has posted this yet or not. If so, I'm sorry if I'm repeating here. But when Desmond is questioning Locke and he is telling him about the plane, Desmond makes the comment, "so the world is still out there". My first thought was all those people that went Y2K survival nuts right before the millennium thinking that the world was going to end. They even had groups or clubs that banded together and people were building bomb type shelters and all. What if Desmond is part of one of those groups and he thought Locke was sent to him to tell him it was finally safe to come out into the world again?
There's a whole thread on that. I think it's like "The Wall's still out there?" or something like that. It's in the "Adrift" section. That might be it for sure but I still think there has to be some connection to the DHRAMA stuff since the symbol and name are both in his bunker.

I really think that Desmond thought that Locke was his relief. He looked relieved and then asked him predetermined questioned, like spies do, to reveal if he was actually the "ONE". When Locke was unable to answer correctly is when Desmond knew he wasn't the "ONE". We are being shown the 6 degrees of seperation by the writers but how much of that is "Red Herring's"?

Well, I searched in Google this time and came up with this: http://www.kwanumzen.com/primarypoint/pdf/pp2001fa.pdf I'll keep looking.

Thats actually pretty cool....did you notice the first article...."My dharma speech is already finished"? Maybe a bit of Zen reference with Desmond being the enlightened one?

There's a whole thread on that. I think it's like "The Wall's still out there?" or something like that. It's in the "Adrift" section. That might be it for sure but I still think there has to be some connection to the DHRAMA stuff since the symbol and name are both in his bunker.

Thanks jbdean :biggrin: I think your right and I'm sure its not as simple as Desmond being a Y2K nut who went supply crazy with his DHRAMA Wholesale Warehouse membership card, but I'm going to check it out too as I don't want to leave any possibility unturned here. Heaven knows, its not like I need to sleep for the rest of the season :blink:

DHRAMA Wholesale Warehouse membership card


Over on the Lost-Forum.com, a guy posted the following...I think he's got it!

http://lost-forum.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Hatch logo - I GOT IT!
I was chasing the whole eastern mysticism / hinduism / i ching / yin yang angle for a long time, and then I saw this screenie:

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/hatchLogo.jpg (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/hatchLogo.jpg)

and it struck me.

The logo does not say DHARMA. It says PHARMA.

The "P" is stylized cuz its a logo. Look closely, you can see the indent at the bottom of the loop of the "P." Further evidence is that the logo is most prominently displayed on Desmon's cabinet full of injection meds.

And the swan? It's a stylized "S."

Look closely at Locke's mother's admission form to the mental hospital:

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/LockeSRMHIAdmission.jpg (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/LockeSRMHIAdmission.jpg)

At the far bottom left you will see "Skadden Pharma..."

S. Pharma.

I think all you frame-by-frame uber fans need to scour the screenies for the footprints of Skadden Pharmaceuticals.

You heard it here first.


What do you all think? Is is Pharma???

I really think that Desmond thought that Locke was his relief. He looked relieved and then asked him predetermined questioned, like spies do, to reveal if he was actually the "ONE". When Locke was unable to answer correctly is when Desmond knew he wasn't the "ONE". We are being shown the 6 degrees of seperation by the writers but how much of that is "Red Herring's"?

*echo squints into lights* "who's out there?" *slips quickly into shadows, pulls knife and glock* I kinda have a thought "him" is indeed Desmond's replacement, ( only the shadow knows who that's supposed to be , for now).. I feel there were many bodies who did time gaurding the hatch, probably they each pulled a certain stretch of time, (hence the marks Locke ogled), "a round the world race".. hmmmm.. A french team of scientists
, a scottish guy, "the others"..........Was Ethan Canadian?, I think so. hmmmmmmm.. Chemical warfare? How do Alex and Walt tie in? Adam and Eve, (from first season, a NEW WORLD ORDER?) , "it killed them?" "is anyone ill?" seems a lot goes back Rosseau (spelling) . just brain storming here, so much going on in said poor brain..... *echo coughs violently, waves off smoke*

Over on the Lost-Forum.com, a guy posted the following...I think he's got it!



What do you all think? Is is Pharma???
I've looked at the patch before, but my screen resolution sucks so I can't make it out clearly :frown: But I hadn't seen Emily's admit sheet yet, so that was totally cool! Your post tho did make me wonder if Desmond didn't start some pharmaceutical or health care company, become super rich and go a bit nutters in the process, thus explaining how he got to the hatch with all the medication and specially processed foods. Maybe during research, he saw some disease threat that almost all people carry and felt that the only way he could survive was to create an antidote, lock himself away and with the help of a trusted few, would only emerge once this disease was eradicated.

I really think that Desmond thought that Locke was his relief. He looked relieved and then asked him predetermined questioned, like spies do, to reveal if he was actually the "ONE". When Locke was unable to answer correctly is when Desmond knew he wasn't the "ONE". We are being shown the 6 degrees of seperation by the writers but how much of that is "Red Herring's"?
But it's been brought up that if Locke was Desmond's replacement and Desmond thought the world was no more ... where did Desmond plan on going once his replacement took over? I think he felt that Locke was a leader or someone higher up that was going to give him explanations or more directions.

Thats actually pretty cool....did you notice the first article...."My dharma speech is already finished"? Maybe a bit of Zen reference with Desmond being the enlightened one?
Maybe. But somehow a guy with an arsnal of weapons doesn't seem very "zen-like." ;)

Over on the Lost-Forum.com, a guy posted the following...I think he's got it!

What do you all think? Is is Pharma???
Nope. That's a poor copy of the original cap. Here is the high res version and you can clearly see that it's Dharma: http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dharmafirstconfirmation3ki.jpg

*echo squints into lights* "who's out there?" *slips quickly into shadows, pulls knife and glock* I kinda have a thought "him" is indeed Desmond's replacement, ( only the shadow knows who that's supposed to be , for now).. I feel there were many bodies who did time gaurding the hatch, probably they each pulled a certain stretch of time, (hence the marks Locke ogled), "a round the world race".. hmmmm.. A french team of scientists
, a scottish guy, "the others"..........Was Ethan Canadian?, I think so. hmmmmmmm.. Chemical warfare? How do Alex and Walt tie in? Adam and Eve, (from first season, a NEW WORLD ORDER?) , "it killed them?" "is anyone ill?" seems a lot goes back Rosseau (spelling) . just brain storming here, so much going on in said poor brain..... *echo coughs violently, waves off smoke*
echo, as always, you never seem to not crack me up! Girl ... you should seriously consider writing comedy or doing some! :biggrin:

I just posted a reply to someone who also thinks Desmond thought Locke was his replacement but if he was ... where was Desmond planning on going? After all, he thought the world above was no more ...

I think he felt that Locke was a leader or someone higher up that was going to give him explanations or more directions.
Is the Hailbop Comet coming back? I'm so sorry...I know that was bad, but I just couldn't resist :redface: I blame it on lack of sleep and my losing battle with crabgrass. And yeah...that is my life lately outside of work and the board here :biggrin:

I actually think he was looking at Locke as his signal of freedom or proof that he could finally leave and that the world was safe again. The sound of hope and the look on his face just said it all to me, not to mention the frustration and disappointment when he found out Locke was not who he thought he was.

Is the Hailbop Comet coming back? I'm so sorry...I know that was bad, but I just couldn't resist :redface: I blame it on lack of sleep and my losing battle with crabgrass. And yeah...that is my life lately outside of work and the board here :biggrin:

I actually think he was looking at Locke as his signal of freedom or proof that he could finally leave and that the world was safe again. The sound of hope and the look on his face just said it all to me, not to mention the frustration and disappointment when he found out Locke was not who he thought he was.
You know, when you put it that way ... maybe you're right. It wasn't until after he found out Locke was not his "him" that he was surprised that the world was still up there. Maybe, he did think that with the arrival of his "him" that the world had been gone but now was ok to inhabit again. Damn ... and I thought I'd pinpointed it to be a Big Chieft kind of "him."

And yeah, crabgrass can be a bear! :24:

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall when Desmond said anything about the world above having ended. To the contrary, I think he keeps the program running so that whatever it is that is infecting those above ground on the "Island" will stay on the "Island" and not reach the outside world. The only thing I have to back up that theory is: Why would he stay underground and keep the program running if the world as he knew it had ended?

The program that he must start every 108 minutes could be a doomsday device which would blow the "Island" up if the program isn't restarted. It could also be what runs the underground habitat that he has lived in for a long time. If he doesn't restart prior to time running out it shuts down and can't be restarted. I found it interesting that the inside of the hatch not only had the word quarantine on it but I didn't see a handle or means of it being opened from the inside.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall when Desmond said anything about the world above having ended. To the contrary, I think he keeps the program running so that whatever it is that is infecting those above ground on the "Island" will stay on the "Island" and not reach the outside world. The only thing I have to back up that theory is: Why would he stay underground and keep the program running if the world as he knew it had ended?

The program that he must start every 108 minutes could be a doomsday device which would blow the "Island" up if the program isn't restarted. It could also be what runs the underground habitat that he has lived in for a long time. If he doesn't restart prior to time running out it shuts down and can't be restarted. I found it interesting that the inside of the hatch not only had the word quarantine on it but I didn't see a handle or means of it being opened from the inside.
Desmond asks Locke, "The world is still up there?" Locke says, "I ... think so." Clearly, from this question, Desmond believed that either the world had been destroyed or was supposed to have been and is at a loss as to why it's still there. Before Locke came, he had no idea there were any living people above ground on the island. He didn't know about the plane crash either.

Then why did he turn the light on when Locke was banging on the hatch after Boone had his accident? Why did he arm himself when they blew the hatch? The quarantine being written on the inside of the hatch and his having a bit of an arsenal seems to suggest, his being protected from what was on the "Island".

Then why did he turn the light on when Locke was banging on the hatch after Boone had his accident? Why did he arm himself when they blew the hatch? The quarantine being written on the inside of the hatch and his having a bit of an arsenal seems to suggest, his being protected from what was on the "Island".
We don't know that Desmond turned on the light. We can only assume he turned it on. And what's not to say it was a boar rooting at the hatch or polar bears fighting over the hatch? Or the light might have just gone on at that moment by coincedence. I don't think he asked Locke if the world was still up there as a fluke or diverson. His face showed that he truly was stunned that there was not just the two of them but over 40 people up there. He is, after all, 50 so feet below ground. He might not have even heard Locke banging. At this point we don't know if the light comes on on its own or if Desmond has to program it (we never did see what made it come on when Kate was grabbed) or both. And the light appears to be reflected off of the mirror that was lying on the bottom of the shaft. Perhaps anytime Desmond turns on the main light in the halls it reflects off the mirror and shoots the beam up.

No, I don't think Desmond knew Locke or anyone had been up at the hatch. With the ladder broken and being so far below ground, I doubt he had any idea.

Nope. That's a poor copy of the original cap. Here is the high res version and you can clearly see that it's Dharma: http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dharmafirstconfirmation3ki.jpg

You're on it, sister.
Looks like a D to me...and Dharma makes it so much more interesting.

This is so much a good versus evil thing...one thing has a direct opposite...black and white rocks...adam and eve...the two different suvivor camps (beach/caves). It seems all things come in twos. Then...is there someone else suppossed to be in the bunker with Desmond? Is Locke the all-knowing Christ figure and has he finally found the "anti-christ" in Desmond or the monster? So much symbolism here...

I noticed that Desmond's weapons were all older Russian models - He's holding a Makarov pistol to Locke's head, and in the teaser for the next episode he's holding an AK assault rifle. So there could be a Russian/Cold War involvement somewhere

Of course, Russian wargear is pretty widespread all over the world - especially AK's. But the Makarov is a fairly uncommon pistol. Given the creator's documented attention to detail, why would they choose a Makarov over something more ubiquitous (and probably more readily found in every Hollywood armorer's collection) like a 1911, Glock, or an M92?

http://www.volny.cz/weapon/pistole/makarov/pi-m.jpg

I noticed that when he took the pistol from the wooden frame there was one pistol missing from the set. Have we seen anybody else carrying a Makarov? (Nigerian smugglers? Danielle? ....)

just asking.

Aleximus

We don't know that Desmond turned on the light. We can only assume he turned it on. And what's not to say it was a boar rooting at the hatch or polar bears fighting over the hatch? Or the light might have just gone on at that moment by coincidence. I don't think he asked Locke if the world was still up there as a fluke or diversion. His face showed that he truly was stunned that there was not just the two of them but over 40 people up there. He is, after all, 50 so feet below ground. He might not have even heard Locke banging. At this point we don't know if the light comes on on its own or if Desmond has to program it (we never did see what made it come on when Kate was grabbed) or both. And the light appears to be reflected off of the mirror that was lying on the bottom of the shaft. Perhaps anytime Desmond turns on the main light in the halls it reflects off the mirror and shoots the beam up.

No, I don't think Desmond knew Locke or anyone had been up at the hatch. With the ladder broken and being so far below ground, I doubt he had any idea.

Yes, you are right. Much of what you have posted is also depended upon what your views are and not on what we have been shown. Nothing we have been shown suggests that Desmond had nothing to do with the light being a mere coincidence. I would like to also answer at this time, the fact that the writers are very clever and have written a script that in many ways is very ambiguous and take delight in that. I by the way take delight in it myself. There is no ONE answer and I believe they will never give us a totally definitive answer, because if they did, a good majority of the viewing audience would be offended. WE will, and YOU will always be able to argue our points because this is a totally different TV series. It's not based on giving the pat answer but making us all think. That is what separates this show from everything else. At the end, we can all disagree but be satisfied.

Desmond asks Locke, "The world is still up there?" Locke says, "I ... think so." Clearly, from this question, Desmond believed that either the world had been destroyed or was supposed to have been and is at a loss as to why it's still there. Before Locke came, he had no idea there were any living people above ground on the island. He didn't know about the plane crash either.


Perhaps "the world" is any one or anything NOT of the island. the island is a safe haven, and being in a hatch , underground, everything is "up there" maybe the hatch was to keep each .. let's call them Watchers for want of a better word, safe until the island was really clear of the sickness. some people survived the sickness, some didn't,, ( the french team), .......ummmmm...lost my train of thought, damn train! *echo runs full out, trying to catch caboose* :biggrin:

The great thing about LOST is the fact that so much is left up to intrepretation. I went back and read the transcripts and IMO, the line, Is the world still up there, is a bit tongue in cheek. He has been down there so long and out of the loop that I thought it was satirical. Almost like a convict getting out of prison and saying "you mean the world is still out there?." It's all in how each individual intreprets it. One thing I know is that some of the creative team takes great pride in making things so ambiguous that it can mean different things. Just like the term Brother. It could be religious or just slnag for the time.

This is so much a good versus evil thing...one thing has a direct opposite...black and white rocks...adam and eve...the two different suvivor camps (beach/caves). It seems all things come in twos. Then...is there someone else suppossed to be in the bunker with Desmond? Is Locke the all-knowing Christ figure and has he finally found the "anti-christ" in Desmond or the monster? So much symbolism here...
Desmond is not a monster! :: gets down off of chair :: Sorry, couldn't control myself there for a moment. ;)

There is truly a history of "twos." Even the two men sitting down in the boat that took Walt were twins. But I have a feeling that, maybe not anytime soon but eventually, we'll see that Desmond and Locke are on the same side. I have nothing to go on but my gutt feelings but I just see in Desmond this misguided sweet man that has become a bit odd due to being down in that bunker for goodness knows how long with no companionship and yet he's not really a bad person. In seeing him when he first met Jack, we see that he had a big heart, a kind spirit and a helping nature. Something went terribly wrong to make him into the arsanal packing hermit that he is now.

You're on it, sister.
Looks like a D to me...and Dharma makes it so much more interesting.
D for Dharma. D for Desmond! :biggrin:

I noticed that when he took the pistol from the wooden frame there was one pistol missing from the set. Have we seen anybody else carrying a Makarov? (Nigerian smugglers? Danielle? ....)

just asking.

Aleximus
Your post leads well into my thoughts after viewing "Adrift" again. The whole time we see Desmond with Locke and Kate, he has the AKA rifle. Yet at the entrance when he pulls his gun on Locke, it's a pistol. I had missed that he grabbed one when arming himself but now I do recall the missing pistol that you spoke of.

My question, after watching tonight, is we still haven't been told 3 things. 1] Why didn't Desmond recognize Jack when Locke told him a] his name and b] he was a doctor and c] Desmond had a very clear view of him and 2] Why are Desmond's finger nails dirty when we see him pull the gun on Locke and 3] Why does he appear to recognize Jack at that point? We were talking about his dirty fingers from eppy 1 and thought that it would be explained in eppy 2 when we saw just what went on in the bunker after Kate was yanked down. But nothing showed how he got them dirty and they were clean the whole time he pointed that AKA at Locke. So ... was the man behind Locke the same man (I don't mean a different actor, just another character) that was in the bunker when Kate and Locke first appeared? It goes back to that pattern of "twos."

Yes, you are right. Much of what you have posted is also depended upon what your views are and not on what we have been shown. Nothing we have been shown suggests that Desmond had nothing to do with the light being a mere coincidence. I would like to also answer at this time, the fact that the writers are very clever and have written a script that in many ways is very ambiguous and take delight in that. I by the way take delight in it myself. There is no ONE answer and I believe they will never give us a totally definitive answer, because if they did, a good majority of the viewing audience would be offended. WE will, and YOU will always be able to argue our points because this is a totally different TV series. It's not based on giving the pat answer but making us all think. That is what separates this show from everything else. At the end, we can all disagree but be satisfied.
Excatly! :biggrin:

While I tend to think Desmond had something to do with the light going on, I don't think that it was Locke's banging that did it because I seriously doubt Desmond would have heard it (especially if he'd been rocking out to Mamma Cass Elliot ;) ). He might have just turned the light on to move from one room to another and it reflects off the mirror and that lights the hatch.

The great thing about LOST is the fact that so much is left up to intrepretation. I went back and read the transcripts and IMO, the line, Is the world still up there, is a bit tongue in cheek. He has been down there so long and out of the loop that I thought it was satirical. Almost like a convict getting out of prison and saying "you mean the world is still out there?." It's all in how each individual intreprets it. One thing I know is that some of the creative team takes great pride in making things so ambiguous that it can mean different things. Just like the term Brother. It could be religious or just slnag for the time.
I haven't read the transcripts but after watching it again tonight on the encore replay, I noticed that Desmond does not "ask" if the world is still up there but states it, with what seems to me to be amused realization in the fact that, "Well, by gum ... the ol' world is still a'movin right along." That might be what you meant. But there is something, I feel, more to Desmond being in that hatch to protect himself from the "sickness" UNless he was put in there and then the "sickness" was let loose on the island ... for who knows what reason ... and he's been waiting it out.

GOD, I LOVE THIS SHOW!! :biggrin:

Hey all, I'm heading off to bed now (after all, it is 1:13am!) but wanted to let you know that Desmond/Henry has been given his own Character Board in the Character section!

It would be totally cool if we could see you all over there for further Desmond discussions!

Lift it up, brutha! :biggrin: