Did anyone else notice that Hurley changed the amount he won in the lottery? He originally told Charlie that he was worth 156 million dollars. In this episode he tells Jack he won 114 million. The difference is 42 million. There's the number 42 again!

So are we supposed to think he really is crazy? He was in a psych hospital. His flashbacks always have things that seem impossible and highly unlikely happening. Maybe he just thinks that these things are happening and, in reality, they aren't. He's delusional, I guess.

Another time he lied about how many times Ethan was shot. He said 4, and in reality it was 6. There's the number 4 again.

Is he lying on purpose, or is he crazy obsessed with the numbers subconsciously and has no idea he's lying?
He doesn't seem like he's lying on purpose....

Did anyone else notice that Hurley changed the amount he won in the lottery? He originally told Charlie that he was worth 156 million dollars. In this episode he tells Jack he won 114 million. The difference is 42 million. There's the number 42 again!


But remember in the Hurley flashback episode, he was in his accountant's office, &
everthing bad that happens makes him even richer! the original 114 million has grown
since he won it.

It seems unlikely that he's lying or delusional - especially about the numbers. We've seen how they keep re occuring.

Excellent catch. I think maybe Hurley's number is 4, like Kates is 23 etc.???

Well didn't he earn more money in investments and from the insurance when that factory in Canada(?) burned down? So he was therefore worth more than the lottery winnings. I can't remember the shooting amounts, sorry. But he IS obsessed with those numbers lol. And, he wasn't actually there when Ethan was shot, was he? So that information could have easily been messed up. :)

The amount in the letter Hurley sent on the raft was $160 million, or was Sawyer just rounding up?

There is a clear difference between Hurley being WORTH something now and what he originally won from the lottery. Make sense? Clears things up?

Don't you guys think that it is interesting how noone believes Hurley. Charlie didn't believe him last season. And Jack's (very funny) reaction was "You were in a psych ward?" as if he completely discounted the lottery story without a second thought.

Don't you guys think that it is interesting how noone believes Hurley. Charlie didn't believe him last season. And Jack's (very funny) reaction was "You were in a psych ward?" as if he completely discounted the lottery story without a second thought.

Well...he *is* a doctor, his first thoughts would be about his "patients", er, I mean...the other survivors.

But yeah...to let Hurley tell the entire story and then reply with a question to the very first thing he said...not exactly good conversation ettiquette!

Don't you guys think that it is interesting how noone believes Hurley. Charlie didn't believe him last season. And Jack's (very funny) reaction was "You were in a psych ward?" as if he completely discounted the lottery story without a second thought.

I think no one believes him because he doesn't exactly come across as a Mr. Howell tycoon kind of guy. Erm, dude.

If someone started a story to me by saying "Well I met this guy while I was in a psych ward and..." I think I would tend to discount everything after than point as well.

There is a clear difference between Hurley being WORTH something now and what he originally won from the lottery. Make sense? Clears things up?

Yeah, that makes sense. He did say to Charlie he was "worth" 156 million, but that he "won" 114 million, so I see your point. But...so many bad things have happened to him and he keeps blaming the numbers being cursed. This is silly to me. How can numbers be cursed? Why? Who would put a curse on numbers? It doesn't make any kind of sense. It does make sense if he is crazy.
He keeps insisting he's not crazy which is the catch-22 of being crazy. If you think you're crazy, you're not. A crazy person has no idea they are crazy. Being unable to distinguish what's real from what's not real means a person is crazy.
How could all those bad things happen to him? I don't think they did at all. I think he remembers them happening because he's crazy. The flashbacks are all from his point of view, so we don't really know if what he's thinking is what's real. We don't really know if his memories are of actual events or if they are delusions. In Hurley's flashbacks other people do not react to events normally. Hurley doesn't even react to things normally. When a man jumps out of a building and plummets past the window of the office where you are, you don't sit there and think "well, that's wierd" , you call 911, you rush to the window to see where he fell and if he possibly landed on something soft and is still alive. But no one did anything. It just doesn't make sense. In all the other characters' flashbacks, things make sense and people react normally.
The only way Hurley's flashback makes sense is that it didn't happen at all.

If Hurley believes that he is cursed because of the numbers, it's a way of feeling more important in the world. It's a coping mechanism that people who go crazy use to feel better about themselves (not consciously, of course). If you feel like people are after you or that you have something special about you or that you know things that no one else knows, it makes you feel more powerful and important and of consequence. It's fairly common in the realm of psychiatry.
This could be what's going on with Hurley. It's the only way I can make sense of his flashbacks.
The numbers themselves do keep occurring and popping up all the time, but that just shows a pattern or a chain of connected events (fate). Not a curse.

But, didn't Hurley JUST see the numbers for the first time on the side of the hatch? And his flashback was many episodes ago. So how could he be having flashbacks about the exact numbers on the side of the hatch if he's crazy? He couldn't make up those numbers.

I don't think he's crazy although I am curious as to why he was in the psych ward.

How could all those bad things happen to him? I don't think they did at all. I think he remembers them happening because he's crazy. ... In Hurley's flashbacks other people do not react to events normally. Hurley doesn't even react to things normally. When a man jumps out of a building and plummets past the window of the office where you are, you don't sit there and think "well, that's wierd" , you call 911, you rush to the window to see where he fell and if he possibly landed on something soft and is still alive. But no one did anything. It just doesn't make sense. In all the other characters' flashbacks, things make sense and people react normally.
The only way Hurley's flashback makes sense is that it didn't happen at all.

I can see what you're saying, but I don't know why we have to assume that the flashbacks never happened just because we can draw a different conclusion from them than Hurley does. He thinks bad things happen to him because of a curse on the numbers. Even if we assume that's impossible (and how can we rule anything out on this show? ;) ), why couldn't the bad things have been coincidences? Highly unlikely ones, but still. Then there's no magic or curses involved, and Hurley's not crazy, he's just feeling guilty for all the disasters happening around him and trying to find an outside explanation. Isn't that also a possibility?

And about that particular flashback - their reactions seemed perfectly normal to me. They had been talking about curses, a guy falls past the window to his death, and they look at each other in shock as if to say 'did that really just happen?' We can probably assume that they were properly horrified and maybe called the police right after the flashback ended. There just wasn't any reason to show us that part. :)

I don't think he's crazy although I am curious as to why he was in the psych ward.

Exactly, we don't know why he was in the psych ward and I'm sure there are many reasons besides being 'crazy'. Not to mention that crazy doesn't have to mean the same thing to everyone using that word. To me 'crazy' would imply he's lost all touch with reality- existing within a world he's 'created' in his own mind. But laisla although that may sound like I'm agreeing with you I'm not.
My view on the flash backs is that we are seeing glimpses into the characters background not so much to give us their point of view but to give us (the viewers) more of an understanding of who they are. So, in my opinion what we see in flashbacks is more fact then fiction. Therefore, I think all the strange things from Hurley's background happened and aren't just events that only exist in his head.

Has anyone talked about all the people that seemed to go crazy with the numbers. Hugos buddy at the ward and the two guys at the listening station, one being the guy in australia that offed himself?

I guess everyone has forgotten....during Jin's ep, the family of the man he was sent to kill was watching TV and they saw Hurley on screen accepting the lottery winning. He hasnt made this up...

I guess everyone has forgotten....during Jin's ep, the family of the man he was sent to kill was watching TV and they saw Hurley on screen accepting the lottery winning. He hasnt made this up...

Excellent point! What we see in flashbacks are actual events that happened to that character! And I have to say Desmond just happening to be running the steps at the same time as Jack, when Jack met Sarah and saying what if a miracle happened and then it does as strange and unbelieveable as anything from Hurley's past.

Ah-ha! Good point linda....

Hurley just thinks the numbers are cursed because of all the things that has happened to him and those around him. As time goes on and the numbers come more into play on the island, maybe he'll realize there's a whole lot more to them then just bringing him bad luck!

Excellent point! What we see in flashbacks are actual events that happened to that character! And I have to say Desmond just happening to be running the steps at the same time as Jack, when Jack met Sarah and saying what if a miracle happened and then it does as strange and unbelieveable as anything from Hurley's past.

Actually, we only see Hurley getting into a car and driving away in that flashback where he is on tv in Korea.
And we don't know for a fact that everything that happens in those flashbacks is real. Each episode starts with an eye. I think this suggests point of view. Meaning we will see the story from that character's point of view.
Also, the "miracle" of Sarah getting her leg function back, well, sometimes Doctors are wrong about prognoses and diagnoses. It doesn't necessarily mean that a miracle took place. I mean, she did just have back surgery to regain leg function, so it's not surprising that she did regain function of her legs.

The show does seem to imply that there is some sort of religious intervention going on or at least a supernatural one. But the tone of the Jack/Sarah scene is serious and emotional. The tone of all of Hurley's flashbacks are comical and surreal. Even the background music is different.

Also, a person doesn't necessarily have to be completely unable to perceive reality in order to be crazy. I used to have a neighbor who was crazy (believed delusions about aliens and nuclear bombs being tested in residential areas...gov't cover-up, etc.) ...but, he could remember who I was, and where we lived and could function in order to live and get around town, and aside from his delusions, he seemed perfectly normal to talk to until you asked him about the unusual jewelry he was wearing. (it was home made and was to ward off aliens from abducting him). See what I mean? Insane doesn't mean being completely seperated from reality. It means not being able to distinguish reality from non-reality. At least, that's how I see it.
This may be the deal with Hurley's character. It'll be interesting to find out what his deal is.

Don't you guys think that it is interesting how noone believes Hurley. Charlie didn't believe him last season. And Jack's (very funny) reaction was "You were in a psych ward?" as if he completely discounted the lottery story without a second thought.

I totally think this is weird. Does Hurley have all the answers, but no one will listen to him?

Dear Laisla,"The only way Hurley's flashback makes sense is that it didn't happen at all."The only way the black smoke security system makes sense is if it doesn't exist. The only way Jack repairing Sarah's crushed back could work is if he imagined it. Can we believe any flashback, including Hurley whipping $1600 out of his pocket and buying the electric wheelchair in the airport ?" In all the other characters' flashbacks, things make sense and people react normally."Like Claire's psychic giving her an airline ticket and cash ? Like Walt's stepdad flying halfway around the world the day after his wife dies, to give Walt to Michael ? If we can't trust Hurley's flashbacks, can we trust anyones ?Remember, just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean people aren't plotting against you.

After the Hatch interiors, Lost Logo swoops in.

Did anyone notice this ? - Hurley to himself outside Hatch:

4-8-15-16-23-42 Full eight
We're Dead
15 Doomed and Dead 16 23...

Kate grabbs his arm

- Kate:
You Ok ?

- Hurley
Yeah Awesome ...........I just have to..... pee

Good idea to go looking in the burning death hole...

That is just scary.

Just a theory...I think Hurley is loosing it...his mind...and the sicker he gets...the less money he owns, and the less money he owns, the less bad luck he has... just an idea.

Actually, we only see Hurley getting into a car and driving away in that flashback where he is on tv in Korea..

The words that were flashed underneath Hurley's picture on Korean television translate to "lucky winner" in Korean.

Excellent catch. I think maybe Hurley's number is 4, like Kates is 23 etc.???

Why do you think Kate's number is 23? I would have said 8.

Why do you think Kate's number is 23? I would have said 8.

I suppose because her bounty was set at $23,000???

I agree, laisla, there are different degrees of crazy. Work with someone who talks out loud to herself - sometimes the 'conversation' seems to be set off by what other ppl are talking about and other times it's just the 'voices' in her head and are totally unconnected to reality! And I've also have had totally rational conversations with her (assuming of course that I'm not crazy)
I think the flashbacks are telling us about things that really happened otherwise why devote so much eppy time to them. There has been debates on the eye opennings in other threads - instead of point of view I tend to agree with those that think the eyes signify who's back story we'll be seeing.

People are also in psych wards who are depressed or bi-polar and other things as well... maybe he was not :nuts: crazy, just suicidal or something? I guess we will have to wait and see though. :)

If we can't trust Hurley's flashbacks, can we trust anyones ?.

No. In my opinion, the flashbacks are depicting the memories of the character as they are reminded of them by events on the island. Memories are biased and change over time.

But, there is a difference in the reactions of the people in Hurley's flashbacks. They are not consistent with any of the other characters' flashbacks. This is what I mean by the flashbacks not making sense. The reactions of people in other character's flashbacks are realistic, meaning if they were confronted with the particular situation in real life, they would react in a similar fashion. In Hurley's flashbacks, especially in "Numbers", people just are not reacting normally. That's what makes me think that he is remembering them wrong or that none of it happened and his mind has created all these false memories (due to being nuts).

It could just be that Hurley is meant as a comic relief sort of character and that would explain all the unusual things in his flashbacks (unbelievably bad luck, non-realistic reactions to things, light-hearted comical background music, etc.). But that doesn't seem to fit with the show.

So, until we see some evidence that things actually happened the way they did in Hurley's flashbacks, I'm going to stick with thinking he's three fries short of a happy meal.

Why do you think Kate's number is 23? I would have said 8.

Why would you have said 8?

You guys bring up very interesting points. In my opinion the flashbacks aren't just the characters rememberance of things that happened in the past but stuff that actually happened that we just get a glimps of. Does that make sense? I take all the the flashback scenes as fact. That's what happened. Not, that's how that particular character remembered it.

Oh and my personal opinion about why Hurley was in a psych ward is that I think he had tried to kill himself at some point in his life. I've thought that since "Numbers".

I caught the differences in the amounts of winnings as well... My only thought was that maybe he has lost that much to Walt playing backgammon and is truly keeping up with it!! Remember, Walt told Hurley he "owed him $84,000" and Hurley told him, "don't worry you will get it"! This is before we knew that Hurley was worth Millions!

GL :coolorng:

A little off tanget, perhaps, but I don't believe Hurley has bad luck. He personally has very good luck, but at the same time it seems to suck away everyone's good luck he's close to (ie, the house that burns down is one he bought for his mother, not him). And while he seemed to be having horrendous luck on the date he was scheduled to fly back to LA, I don't think that was the case. His good luck was trying to save his (rather wide) behind by keeping him off that plane.

I realize "luck" is a bit silly, as is the idea that numbers hold it, but it certainly seems as if Hurley isn't simply off his rocker to me. What exactly is the deal with the numbers I don't know yet, but I don't think they or their apparent consequences meant to be purely coincidental.

Neither, he has made money since he origionally won the lottery. I would say he is just plain rich with bad luck.

Hurley's muttering the numbers, I took it as his premonition of doom,
from what he has seen via the numbers in the past.

When Dr. Artz blew up, every one there acted the same as Hurley,
almost catatonic! They all seem to have detached from the whole
crash scene, I suspect in order to contend with it. The only one
showing any emotional breakdown from all that has happened
is Shannon.