This has been discussed in another thread, but it deserves a bit of attention I think.

Watch the opening scene again (assuming you have the HD rip or tivo'ed it) and you'll see after the hatch blows Desmond aims his telescope thing at one mirror, then moves it one way. He then points his telescope at another mirror, moves *that* mirror to reveal the Lostaways.

Two moveable mirrors? Another entrance obviously (I would assume)...

The first mirror refelcts a bright light when it moves, and then he moves it back (as he moves it back it refelcts the bring light again). The second mirror almost instantly refelcts the lostaways when its moved.

Thoughts?

This caught my attention too. My first thought was there were 4 or 8 "other" entrances.

Boy, I'm really glad I taped it! I remember the telescope and Desmond seeing them above ground but don't recall the other part. I'll have to watch that more closely tonight.

I caught that too. My thought was that he was checking multiple hatches to see which one had been compromised.

cool:ntworthy:

Hi All,

This kind of ties in to something I noticed about the actual hatch door.

The word "Quarantine" is written in black block lettering in "Man of Science, Man of Faith", but in the preview/promotion for next week (shown after the episode), the word is written in red with a different font. The hatch door in the promotion/preview also does not look like it has been damaged like the hatch door shown in the episode.

Did anyone notice this? It made me think that there was more than one hatch.

yea, I notised it too, but its the same scene, with all of them...

Hi All,

This kind of ties in to something I noticed about the actual hatch door.

The word "Quarantine" is written in black block lettering in "Man of Science, Man of Faith", but in the preview/promotion for next week (shown after the episode), the word is written in red with a different font. The hatch door in the promotion/preview also does not look like it has been damaged like the hatch door shown in the episode.

Did anyone notice this? It made me think that there was more than one hatch.
I didn't see that because I never watch the scenes from a next eppy of any show I'm into. But are you sure it wasn't just the lighting? Red can look black in the wrong light .

I didn't see that because I never watch the scenes from a next eppy of any show I'm into. But are you sure it wasn't just the lighting? Red can look black in the wrong light .

Yeah, they are different doors that are shown. The promo has red paint and is aged and "charred" a bit more than the one that was shown in the actual show. My guess for this change is probably due to the director not liking the shot or something. Quite bit of stuff showed in the promo with Kate and Locke was different during airing too.

I think the various mirrors were part of a complex viewing system to see around the corners of the tunnels (not that he was looking up different hatches) ... like those mirrors in parking garages used to see around blind corners .. when he was fiddling with the switches on the periscope thingy, he was adjusting the angles of the mirrors to line up their reflections (the way you can change the angle of the side view mirrors on a car). When you freeze frame on the mirrors, you can see Jack, Locke and the torch (as they look down the hatch) reflected in them

In addition to being able to use them in place of a video surveillance system, by aiming a light at one of them, he apparently can light up the whole works, the way they did in the Mummy ...

You are correct about the various mirrors being part of a complex system, but only two of them are motorized. Everyother one is fixed. He moves the first mirror (which is on the right side) and it reflects a bright light, and then he moves it back to its original position. Then he moves his telescope to the left (his left) and then moved the other motorized mirror on the left side, which shows the hatch opening and Jack and Locke peering in.

If one mirror is moved to see the hatch opened, whats up with the first mirror moving? Why move it one way, then move it back to its original position? That wouldnt line anything up that wasnt lined up already before moving it.

If you watch the scene again, there are two mirrors, one mounted on a right side, and one mounted on a left side, that are both motorized mirrors while every other mirror in the setup is fixed. That is what makes me think there is another hallway.

Also, if you watch Jack enter the hatch, you can see the floodlight that he is using mounted up on the wall on the left side of the tunnel.

I'll take some screen caps of the two different motorized mirrors to show what I'm talking about once I get home.

right before the shot leading to the mirror looking up at locke and jack, there are two shots;
shot of a wall mounted mirror panning down to the left, where we see the "dharma" symbol on the wall, then the exact same shot, just reversed. i don't see this as the editors just wanting to use the same shot and reverse it, i think its a clue as to what we are really supposed to be looking at/for

http://foureightfifteensixteen2342.blogspot.com

i have it listed there, along with other mirrored shots in that opening scene.

right before the shot leading to the mirror looking up at locke and jack, there are two shots;
shot of a wall mounted mirror panning down to the left, where we see the "dharma" symbol on the wall, then the exact same shot, just reversed. i don't see this as the editors just wanting to use the same shot and reverse it, i think its a clue as to what we are really supposed to be looking at/for

http://foureightfifteensixteen2342.blogspot.com

i have it listed there, along with other mirrored shots in that opening scene.

Your observations are great. The table being cleared off is pretty crazy. I am wondering just how much time is passing during the first shot of the table and the crap all over it and the hatch blowing. The music plays the entire time, which makes it feel like hardly any time has passed, but while the music is playing he works out, take a shower, etc - obviously showing that its taking much longer than just a song's worth of time (even though the record does skip on the hatch being blown). It seems like the time line here is hard to determine, simply because they use an auditory time line (the song) and visual timeline (lots of cut scenes of various routine activities). They dont match up at all, but I think this was basically for dramatic purposes in the scene (like having surreal music while showing his daily activities, but also showing the record skip so emphasize a blast).

I am not convinced this is a mirror image of the two mirrors though. If you go frame by frame, they reflect different "bright" sources. The bright light is white on both mirrors, but it is clearly not the same shot reversed if you go frame by frame. They are reflecting different things. Granted, that isn't saying there are two of them (although I think there are), but the two shots are different. Also, one mirror moves all the way one direction, then all the way back. Then he physically moves the telescope to his left (towards the "other" mirror") before moving that mirror - which reflects the hatch before it moves back.

So in one mirror, its moved over and back, but the other is simply moved one direction - over. It never moves back.

Like I said, this could be a reverse shot (there are other reverse shots in the hatch), but they are certainly two different shots and the guy with the telescope thing does point another direction after the first mirror is moved over and back - and then it shows the second mirror move and locke and jack are visible.

Does that make sense? I can output this into an .avi once I get home to show what I am referring to.

thanks!

yeah, i was wondering too how much time passed, maybe they assume that since hes doing one dish he does them all and cleans everything up. definitely a possibility.

i'll check it out when i get home too, but i could swear it was just the same shot. the reddish light blob in the darkness when it pans from the mirror down to the logo is exactly the same, just reversed...

i love tivo.

I didn't see anyone mention this, but the mirror inside the hatch looked like it was just laid there. To me it looked like someone laid it there to be able to use the mirror system to look up the hatch.

I went back and looked at the hatch door from scenes from the next Lost. The letters are definitely red. There's no debating that. If someone wants to do screenshots, compare the door that happens 12 minutes into the show, versus the one in the preview. They're entirely different. It's not even close.

The color of the hair of the person we see in the opening segment is definitely more light brown in color, where Desmond's hair is very dark. I think this plays into the two different hatches we see; there are two different people they have shown us in this episode.

I do think that there is only one guy in the hatch. I think we are comparing his greasy sweaty hair (from running in the stadium and at the end [remember how long it took for them to go into the hatch...no telling what he did to get dirty]) to the hair he has when he wakes up and showers. I have lighter brown hair and when my hair is wet its jet black and somewhat curly..when its dry its light brown and pretty much straight.

Now, the mirror images in the hatch are a whole new ballgame. That suggests more than one person or something. But I dont see it with the hair.

Another suggestion was the stubble on his face and how the guy at the beginning was clean shaved. The guy at the beginning wasnt clean shaved. Just look at the scene where he is looking through the telescope:

http://sier.home.comcast.net/who_is_this.jpg

If that the same guy in the beginning shower sequence, hes not clean shaved.

Another suggestion was the stubble on his face and how the guy at the beginning was clean shaved. The guy at the beginning wasnt clean shaved. Just look at the scene where he is looking through the telescope:

http://sier.home.comcast.net/who_is_this.jpg

If that the same guy in the beginning shower sequence, hes not clean shaved.

hmmm... looks kinda like gaius baltar from battlestar galactica. maybe it's cylons in the hatch!

wait... richard "hatch" has a recurring guest star role on the new BSG. wonder if there's something there?!?

heh heh heh

i'm completely joking by the way (for the one guy who would have taken this seriously)

OK, crazy sh**. I just rewatched this scene and all I can say is - wow.

I went frame by frame through the scene and here's where it gets weird:

Right after it shows Desmond for the last time in the intro (while hes looking through the telescope), it shows mirror, pans down, and shows a white box with the Bagua on it (the octagon logo). The swan in the middle of the yin yang is reversed. Then it shows the mirror on the other side and pans down to the same box - except the entire scene is mirrored and the yin yang is correct. The white box is on the other side, the light on the wall - everything. This proves the second scene with the white box is the correct non-mirrored scene.

Its the exact same hallway. Notice the water damage on the walls and how they are exactly the same:

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/mirror1.jpg

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/mirror2.jpg

Right after it shows the white box for the second time is when it does the mirror-to-mirror thing and pans up the hatch. This all happens really fast, so I had to catch this frame by frame.

Also, here is a screenshot of Desmond putting his drugs away after the hatch blows. I think it looks like him here.

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/desmond.jpg

I think the various mirrors were part of a complex viewing system to see around the corners of the tunnels (not that he was looking up different hatches) ... like those mirrors in parking garages used to see around blind corners .. when he was fiddling with the switches on the periscope thingy, he was adjusting the angles of the mirrors to line up their reflections (the way you can change the angle of the side view mirrors on a car). When you freeze frame on the mirrors, you can see Jack, Locke and the torch (as they look down the hatch) reflected in them

In addition to being able to use them in place of a video surveillance system, by aiming a light at one of them, he apparently can light up the whole works, the way they did in the Mummy ...
That's what I thought at first, too but then I played it over and over, frame by frame and you can clearly see that the first one has no moving light and only a tiny square light (like the hatch before it was opened. The second reflection clearly shows Locke and his torch is moving and you can see that there is no small square light and only a dark hole (the blown open hatch). I think Desmond was checking "both" hatches to see which one was blown open.

He looks at the first mirror, then at a light on the wall. He looks at the second mirror, and then at a light on the opposite side of a wall. I think these halls with the lights are like the one that Jack saw when he came down his. They are the hallways leading from the hatches to where the living area is.

Another thing that I mentioned (here or on another Desmond thread) is that the emblem on his overalls looks like an octagon with two more octagons inside with a circle in the middle, like a floor plan. From each corner of the angles a line runs to the circle in the middle which gives it a decidedly chambers look. These lines could represent walls and the spaces between the two smaller octagons would then be the halls or vice versa. I think the symbol is the layout of the bunker that Desmond is in. He's in the center circle and the lines are the passageways to the middle. If this is correct, that means there are 8 hatches total, all leading to the middle where Desmond resides.

This would also explain how easily Ethan moved around the island if there are 8 hatches. While that one was of no use, with the broken ladder, the others or several others may still be usable. I do think that Ethan was in there with him before Charlie killed him. On another Desmond thread someone posted a pix of the record album Desmond pulled out to play. It had the initials EW on it. Ethan ... I don't remember his last name but Hurley knew it. I have to play that eppy from last season to be sure.

I went back and looked at the hatch door from scenes from the next Lost. The letters are definitely red. There's no debating that. If someone wants to do screenshots, compare the door that happens 12 minutes into the show, versus the one in the preview. They're entirely different. It's not even close.

The color of the hair of the person we see in the opening segment is definitely more light brown in color, where Desmond's hair is very dark. I think this plays into the two different hatches we see; there are two different people they have shown us in this episode.
it's not two different people. When we see Desmond the first time he's in limited light from the stadium. When we see him in the hatch, he's in full light and very well lit. For that reason his hair is dark when meeting Jack and lighter when in the hatch.

Don't forget that Jack recognizes him and he recognizes Jack when they meet with Locke.

I do think that there is only one guy in the hatch. I think we are comparing his greasy sweaty hair (from running in the stadium and at the end [remember how long it took for them to go into the hatch...no telling what he did to get dirty]) to the hair he has when he wakes up and showers. I have lighter brown hair and when my hair is wet its jet black and somewhat curly..when its dry its light brown and pretty much straight.

Now, the mirror images in the hatch are a whole new ballgame. That suggests more than one person or something. But I dont see it with the hair.

Another suggestion was the stubble on his face and how the guy at the beginning was clean shaved. The guy at the beginning wasnt clean shaved. Just look at the scene where he is looking through the telescope:

http://sier.home.comcast.net/who_is_this.jpg

If that the same guy in the beginning shower sequence, hes not clean shaved.
sier, hate to burst your theory ;) but the man we see before the man with Locke is not clean shaven. He has the same stubble that he has with Locke. We only get one brief shot of his face before we see him with Locke. It's right after the explosion and he's putting the medicine away. Right after that, he turns to his left and we see an almost complete profile and his upper lip and chin have the exact same shadowy look as the he does when we see him behind Locke. Also, for a fraction of a moment, when he hops out of bed you can also see the same shadowy stubble on his chin and upper lip.

sier, hate to burst your theory ;) but the man we see before the man with Locke is not clean shaven. He has the same stubble that he has with Locke. We only get one brief shot of his face before we see him with Locke. It's right after the explosion and he's putting the medicine away. Right after that, he turns to his left and we see an almost complete profile and his upper lip and chin have the exact same shadowy look as the he does when we see him behind Locke. Also, for a fraction of a moment, when he hops out of bed you can also see the same shadowy stubble on his chin and upper lip.

Actually, thats exactly what im saying..hahaha. I saw a theory of two Desmonds and their reasoning was that he was clean shaven in the hatch intro, but not at the end. I was posting that photo up there to show that he did in fact have stubble in the intro hatch scene, so it is the same person in there both times.

And that shot you are referring to is one I capped as well =]

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/desmond.jpg

That's him putting away his drugs after the blast, and its clearly Desmond there.

I didn't explain myself very well in the previous post, but you are exactly right. He has stubble throughout the episode.

There is definitely more than one hatch, and most likely more than one person in the bunker...or is it a bunker system?

The hatch that Locke and Boone found had obviously not been in use for quite some time; it was covered in jungle debris and the ladder down the shaft was in disrepair. Desmond has access to supplies, and by the look of it some pretty contemporary appliances. He has to get these into the complex from somewhere.

Additionally, he had to move the mirrors to look at the Lostaways...meaning the mirrors were previously in a position to look at something else. As I recall, there were probably 8 (!) switches that were available when he was using the telescope...that could give him lots of options.

Not only do I think that there is more than one hatch, but I think there is more than one person in the bunker, or at least there used to be. Desmond got out of a bunkbed, and if this is some sort of Super Secret Government Conspiracy, people usually work better in pairs.

I think there are more than one way to get in and out of the 'bunker' or underground living quarters. I agree that there were plenty of toggle switches to aim the mirrors in different directions, which it appeared he was doing until he found the one with the torch light shining in it.

If he's using a telescope to check these, that could mean this place is pretty vast and spacious with long tunnels leading to different doors or hatches.

I can't wait until the next episode to see more of what is down there and why it's there.

Actually, thats exactly what im saying..hahaha. I saw a theory of two Desmonds and their reasoning was that he was clean shaven in the hatch intro, but not at the end. I was posting that photo up there to show that he did in fact have stubble in the intro hatch scene, so it is the same person in there both times.

And that shot you are referring to is one I capped as well =]

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/desmond.jpg

That's him putting away his drugs after the blast, and its clearly Desmond there.

I didn't explain myself very well in the previous post, but you are exactly right. He has stubble throughout the episode.
Phew! I'm glad about that! LOL I was always wondering how so many thought he was clean shaven in the begining when we can't clearly see his face.

I think what happens is that people tend to "over investigate" and see things that aren't there and lose the logic of the plot looking for all of the easter eggs! LOL

There is definitely more than one hatch, and most likely more than one person in the bunker...or is it a bunker system?

The hatch that Locke and Boone found had obviously not been in use for quite some time; it was covered in jungle debris and the ladder down the shaft was in disrepair. Desmond has access to supplies, and by the look of it some pretty contemporary appliances. He has to get these into the complex from somewhere.

Additionally, he had to move the mirrors to look at the Lostaways...meaning the mirrors were previously in a position to look at something else. As I recall, there were probably 8 (!) switches that were available when he was using the telescope...that could give him lots of options.

Not only do I think that there is more than one hatch, but I think there is more than one person in the bunker, or at least there used to be. Desmond got out of a bunkbed, and if this is some sort of Super Secret Government Conspiracy, people usually work better in pairs.
Good catch on the switches! That plays into my theory that the emblem on his jumpsuit is a diagram of the bunker. It's an octagon with 8 sides that has 8 lines leading into the circle in the center. I think those 8 lines to the center indicate 8 tunnels that lead from the surface to the core where he is. But I think the core only has him now but I think he had Ethan as a partner before Charie killed him. Remember that Claire said that someone was trying to inject something into her baby? If Ethan and Desmond were partners, then Ethan would have had access to the same drugs that Desmond put into himself and Ethan was trying to inject Claire with it.

See my diagram of what the emblem looks like: http://lost.briandonlevy.com/images/DesmondsJumperEmblem.png

I haven't seen a theory anywhere mentioning it, but I had thought the Sam Toomey and Leonard may have been a previous Hatch pair. And their cover story was a "listening post".

I haven't seen a theory anywhere mentioning it, but I had thought the Sam Toomey and Leonard may have been a previous Hatch pair. And their cover story was a "listening post".
I'm pulling up a blank here. Sorry. Remind me who these people are? Thanks.

Did anyone else notice that the sound of the mirrors rotating was a bit like the creepy mechanical sounds we heard last season? I haven't had a chance to go back and watch any Season 1 episodes but I'm almost sure the sounds are VERY similar...only much louder out in the 'trees' ...
any thoughts?

Did anyone else notice that the sound of the mirrors rotating was a bit like the creepy mechanical sounds we heard last season? I haven't had a chance to go back and watch any Season 1 episodes but I'm almost sure the sounds are VERY similar...only much louder out in the 'trees' ...
any thoughts?
I didn't notice that. I'll have to watch that moment again. But the sound of the thing that pulls Locke to the hole in the ground does sound like an old hoist to pull in an anchor or like old pulleys. Is that the sound you're talking about?

Leonard - American/Canadian. Guy playing connect four in the psych ward that Hurley visits in Numbers. He tells Hurley about Sam when he asks where the numbers came from.

Sam Toomey - Aussie. Hurley visits his wife in Numbers. This is why Hurley is flying out from there. He was stationed w/ Leonard @ a "listening post"

Basically, this is the origin of the numbers for Hurley.

Leonard - American/Canadian. Guy playing connect four in the psych ward that Hurley visits in Numbers. He tells Hurley about Sam when he asks where the numbers came from.

Sam Toomey - Aussie. Hurley visits his wife in Numbers. This is why Hurley is flying out from there. He was stationed w/ Leonard @ a "listening post"

Basically, this is the origin of the numbers for Hurley.
Okay, now I follow you. I have a hard time recalling the names of characters outside the basic 48. :frown:

But, question, didn't Leonard hear the numbers while on a ship? And if he was one of the original people doing what Desmond is doing, how did he get off of the island? It seems there is no way off. Do you think that "whoever" brought him back, maybe because he cracked and was no use to them anymore?

This is very interesting!

See my diagram of what the emblem looks like: http://lost.briandonlevy.com/images/DesmondsJumperEmblem.png

Not quite. It;s shown quite well on the locker. There are 8 sets of 3 lines. But, there are some with gaps or breaks in them in the middle of certain lines. I think the top one had the break in the top line, and others were whole. Next to the right had a break in 2 lines, etc. I can't do screen caps, but I''ll try to make it later today. Also, there is a design in the middle. To me, and I'm untrained in graphic design, it kinda looked like a swan profile.

Does anyone have a good screencap of the front of the locker door? You can tell that the design was "punched" into the door. (Cut-out with a die stamp.) No jagged edges. Reason I say that is that the light in the shot moves across the door when he opens it, and when the light hits the design, it "falls into" the holes in the design.

Not quite. It;s shown quite well on the locker. There are 8 sets of 3 lines. But, there are some with gaps or breaks in them in the middle of certain lines. I think the top one had the break in the top line, and others were whole. Next to the right had a break in 2 lines, etc. I can't do screen caps, but I''ll try to make it later today. Also, there is a design in the middle. To me, and I'm untrained in graphic design, it kinda looked like a swan profile.

Does anyone have a good screencap of the front of the locker door? You can tell that the design was "punched" into the door. (Cut-out with a die stamp.) No jagged edges. Reason I say that is that the light in the shot moves across the door when he opens it, and when the light hits the design, it "falls into" the holes in the design.

What I did was a rough of the emblem and it does look like that roughly. I couldn't see the breaks in the lines but have since seen a clear cap of it. The image in the center is the Ying and Yang symbol ... black and white (?)

While this is not the one from the show, it is the same image on this website. http://www.shaolinhungmei.org/theory2.html

I didn't notice this until looking at the episode 4 or 5 times. When Desmond is looking down the corridors via the mirrors, you see a yellow object on the left with pipes and ductwork coming ut of it. It has the same insignia that's on his uniform, locker and computer. The screen flashes and blurs, and it looks like you're seeing down another corridor, with another yellow object on the right. Same insignia. But, look at them better. Same object, but image flipped. He *IS* looking through several mirrors. The image is correct when he sees it via even number of mirrors, and flipped via odd number of mirrors.

If you're unclear on this bit of "magic", and you're a guy, ask your wife or Mother. They, sometimes, work up elaborate mirror systems to see the back of their heads. :rolleyes: