Just a place to post any observations on the strip.

Most obvious:

The two polar bears! :)

I think the male and female founders could be "Adam and Eve" from the caves.

The mention of studying zootology in the film explains the polar bears.

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html

:shock:

The mention of studying zootology in the film explains the polar bears.

Yes, and I think it's funny that they chose to show Polar Bears. They could have shown any other animal! :)

Copyright 1980, the Hanso Corporation.
That explains the dated equipment,

The philanthropist in the filmstrip looks like Locke's father

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html

:shock:
Heh. Thats interesting. Also see where the "terms of use" link leads to:

http://disney.go.com/corporate/privacy/terms.html

;)

The film, with its reference to B.F. Skinner and behaviorism, certainly invited the conclusion Jack drew -- namely, that the whole set-up is an experiment designed to determine how the keepers of the Swan will react under very abnormal stresses.

Loved when Locke told Jack they would have to watch the film again! Especially since I was thinking about rewatching the episode at the moment he said it.

-NotPurgatory

That episode was awesome...and that is a great link. Underneath the links you can highlight Dharma Initiative in green.

Notice the filmstrip included a missing section

"The computer must never be used to....(Missing section)...Good luck with your task."

near the very end

so how long before we can see some screencaps?

thanx in advance!

The philanthropist in the filmstrip looks like Locke's father

I was thinking the same thing!

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html Thanks for posting that!

Very awesome plant site!

This show rocks for bringing these elements to the internet.

I saw that missing thing too. Did you notice those people in the film were Dutch: de groot. Yay for us.

I like the JEDI link

Also interesting that the Swan station is


3 of 5.


WTF does that mean?

Heh. Thats interesting. Also see where the "terms of use" link leads to:

http://disney.go.com/corporate/privacy/terms.html

;)Check out the whois info on it:
Domain ID:D106939446-LROR
Domain Name:THEHANSOFOUNDATION.ORG
Created On:18-Jul-2005 19: 25:55 UTC
Last Updated On:17-Sep-2005 04:05:12 UTC
Expiration Date:18-Jul-2007 19: 25:55 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:tu8XYzBd1Q9n6Trn
Registrant Name:ABC, Inc.
Registrant Organization:ABC, Inc.
Registrant Street1:77 West 66th Street
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:New York
Registrant State/Province:NY
Registrant Postal Code:10023
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.8186233200
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:

at teh end of teh film it was copy right for 1980

it said 3 of 6...meaning theres 6 hatches or pods on the island all doing different experiments.

it said 3 of 6...meaning theres 6 hatches or pods on the island all doing different experiments.
Or six islands. That's what I'm leaning towards, this one being 'electro-isle.' It would also make sense to keep all the projects seperated (as the film stated something went wrong with a previous project).

The filmstrip also said that the 3rd station was created due to the existence of electromagnetic activity on the island. Also since an "incident" they've had to punch in this code every 108 minutes.

Anyone able to click on the Dharma Inititave link? I cant get it to go anywhere.

6 on the island!? Dude, how big is this island...

Maybe they're all connected underground or something.

I understood it to be 6 different experiments on 6 different islands.

I had this sick feeling that the film was going to break right when it was going to reveal something, thank God it played all the way through with just enough ommissions to keep you hooked.

I love how they never really explain the incident. And it's true how the film warps when it says something about "do not use the computer for..."

Registrant Phone:+1.8186233200

Who's gonna call that number?

All six experiments are taking place on the same island. The polar bear escape his section and wondered into section 3 where our Lostaways are.

. Also since an "incident" they've had to punch in this code every 108 minutes.

Do you think the "incident" is what killed off Danielle's crew 16 years ago? Desmond has only been there 3 years. Hmmm.......

Yes, and I think it's funny that they chose to show Polar Bears. They could have shown any other animal! :)

What I thought was quite telling about the polar bears is that they were shown fighting - mauling each other. A comment on war-loving society??? Especially with the Namaste at the end.......

Ok so here's what i need someone to do, if it's possible. Take the audio from the orientation film. Then every time that the film would drag on a word or sound crope those out and put all those sounds together in order. This is way out there I realize, but you know that they intentionally made the audio drag at certain points. It may reveal a hidden message? or maybe just a similar sound to the numbers in order, wouldn't that be crazy

I did notice the dragging of the film, but just thought it was to show that the film was very old. But if there was a hidden message or something, that would be VERY interesting.

only two portions had problems...one was just a toss away word...I think it was "their". The other was a huge gap in the film with instructions on WHAT NOT TO DO WITH THE COMPUTER. I don't think it is hidden in there.

I'm pretty sure the "incident" is ficticious. BF Skinner was mentioned as having similar theories to the DeGroots. Skinner was the guy who stuck rats in boxes and rewarded the rats with food if they hit a lever. I think the button is part of the experiment. In fact, I think when they STOP pushing the button, the experiment will enter a new phase.

I I think the button is part of the experiment. In fact, I think when they STOP pushing the button, the experiment will enter a new phase.

I like this idea.

I'm pretty sure the "incident" is ficticious. BF Skinner was mentioned as having similar theories to the DeGroots. Skinner was the guy who stuck rats in boxes and rewarded the rats with food if they hit a lever. I think the button is part of the experiment. In fact, I think when they STOP pushing the button, the experiment will enter a new phase.

But what's Desmonds 'reward'? Not getting blown up.. ! I really did wish that Jack didn't hit that button.

The philanthropist in the filmstrip looks like Locke's father

Looks exactly like him. So, I wonder if he orchestrated getting Locke onto that island? If he's still alive that is...

Minutes after the show ended you could go to a website about an organization that you just found out about... I love this show. Whoever's idea it is for that website and the oceanic airlines website and the commercials really deserves a lot of credit.

I'm pretty sure the "incident" is ficticious. BF Skinner was mentioned as having similar theories to the DeGroots. Skinner was the guy who stuck rats in boxes and rewarded the rats with food if they hit a lever. I think the button is part of the experiment. In fact, I think when they STOP pushing the button, the experiment will enter a new phase.

Someone spent millions (billions?) of dollars on a psychological experiment? That doesn't make much sense when very similar reactions could have been gained from a much smaller scale experiment done in a labrotory somewhere. Why build an enormous underground bunker and supply all of the computer equipment drugs and food in the middle of a not-so-deserted island when the exact same experiment could be done in a basement in the middle of Kansas? That would make no sense.
Also since there's now a Hanso Foundation website for us fans I'm thinking that the organization is really into what it briefly describes on the website. Why make it otherwise?

I understood it to be 6 different experiments on 6 different islands.

I dont think so....why would it be 6 different islands when it seems all the experiments are happening on this island. We know the electro studies are going on here...it seems the zoology is also on this island...maybe the meterology...i also think some of the visions and maybe walts powers have something to with some of these studies....maybe the "remote" whatever it was.....it seems to me that all these things are happening on different parts of the island.....if it is an island.

The blonde, female founder looks like the woman from the "others" boat that kidnapped Walt.

~som

Someone spent millions (billions?) of dollars on a psychological experiment? That doesn't make much sense when very similar reactions could have been gained from a much smaller scale experiment done in a labrotory somewhere. Why build an enormous underground bunker and supply all of the computer equipment drugs and food in the middle of a not-so-deserted island when the exact same experiment could be done in a basement in the middle of Kansas? That would make no sense.
Also since there's now a Hanso Foundation website for us fans I'm thinking that the organization is really into what it briefly describes on the website. Why make it otherwise?

I agree with you...I dont believe at all that people put this much money, time and effort just for some elaborate "set up".

Mabye the world wont end if the button isnt pushed....but i believe something drastic will happen if its not. Could be good, could be tragic....I dont know. I keep thinking about Walts words played backwards (dont press the button).....so i dont know.

But I dont believe that if they dont push it....nothing will happen, or nothing will change. I keep wondering what that "incident" the doctor mentioned....could be.

I thought that the electronics guy in the film looked like Sayid in goggles hunkered over some equipment he was trying to fix. Coincidental, I'm sure...but man, I was like: He sorta looks like Sayid!

I agree with you...I dont believe at all that people put this much money, time and effort just for some elaborate "set up".

Mabye the world wont end if the button isnt pushed....but i believe something drastic will happen if its not. Could be good, could be tragic....I dont know. I keep thinking about Walts words played backwards (dont press the button).....so i dont know.

But I dont believe that if they dont push it....nothing will happen, or nothing will change. I keep wondering what that "incident" the doctor mentioned....could be.

Oh my god, of course its just a control experiment! Thats the point! They are trying to see how long someone will go on pushing the button, maybe even see how many people they can get to push the button. I agree with the earlier post that said once the button is stopped being pushed the experiment will go into a new phase. Maybe the power will shut off for good, or maybe they release polar bears into the hatch, or maybe NOTHING HAPPENS! Scientists do crazy crap all the time that is expensive and stupid, but they do it for a reason.

The blonde, female founder looks like the woman from the "others" boat that kidnapped Walt.

~som

It is her!!! and fat fro-head bearded guy was on the boat as well. I suspect they are LOVAHS.

http://humpys.net/images/theothers.jpg

I thought that the electronics guy in the film looked like Sayid in goggles hunkered over some equipment he was trying to fix. Coincidental, I'm sure...but man, I was like: He sorta looks like Sayid!

I thought that as well! Maybe Sayid's dad hehe

That episode was awesome...and that is a great link. Underneath the links you can highlight Dharma Initiative in green.

Notice the filmstrip included a missing section

"The computer must never be used to....(Missing section)...Good luck with your task."

near the very end

May or may not be the missing section but...
It's a computer. Why not program it to enter the numbers and run whatever program it runs automatically?

because nothing will happen if you don't push the button.

because nothing will happen if you don't push the button.

What are you a writer on the show??

How do you know all this for sure?

It is her!!! and fat fro-head bearded guy was on the boat as well. I suspect they are LOVAHS. http://humpys.net/images/theothers.jpg

Yay! Thanks for posting that - i was hoping someone would get screen caps. I still have to re-watch the episode - but I have to laugh at my own reaction when we found out there was a film - I was so excited - and at the end when Locke made his comment about watching it over - I lost it.. laughed so hard at that - because it was like he was speaking what i was thinking at the same moment.
So, if the "others" are in fact those people, they are on the island - and that brings up a whole lot of questions...

Its a guess man. BF SKinner gives it all away! The guy locked his children in boxes and told them to push buttons to get treats. The Hanso foundation is supposed to be doing similar research as his. Its all just an elaborate experiment.

also I wish I was a writer for the show, but i don't think I'm that good.

Maybe once they don't push the button the experiment ends and you can go home.

Never underestimate scientists and how much money they will spend to trick and persuade people. People who want to learn so badly about human behavior will do anything to study it. I don't know if EVERYTHING about this island can be explained by this corporation because I don't see how they could plant things like when Locke had that flash about that drug plane crashing and then seeing Boone dead.

However, one thing they said they were studying in that film was parapsychology which is the study of anything that cannot be explained scientifically. Like the study of telepathy or precognition, reincarnation, telekinesis and out of body experiences. Maybe that is why they took Walt? If the "others" are the scientists.

What happens? The pantry full of chocolate, dry pasta, and Tang gets locked.

Seriously...if this was 3 of 6...that could just be the number of the film, not the number of stations or islands or experiements...but...Danielle's map had three islands on it...

Though- hey...this film was made in the 1970s and dated in the 1980s. Why is that? And why are they using the same numbers from the number station heard by the guys that Hurley got the numbers from? They heard those numbers coming from the same general area in the 1940s. Maybe the scientists thought they were starting a brand new experiment but they just extended an experiment that was already underway? Or put their experiments on the island not realizing there were already other experiments being held there?

Weird. Craphole Island...on a thirty year loop. 1940s, 1970s, 2004... (*the 70s explains the vinyl selection...Mama Cass and all)

Could this film just be an update of an ongoing experiment? This was the 1980 copyright version. Something happened since then where the experiment ceased to be updated for some reason or another. Calvin could have been there since the 1980s. He was overjoyed when he found Desmond, shipwrecked, because whatever happened to his other partner (the film DID say it was best to work in partners to "stay fresh") meant that he was all alone...so Desmond showed up three years ago and has gone manic pressing the button every 108 minutes by himself since Cal died. That explains the recent past. But what happened to Calvin's partner? Or was Calvin another survivor of some maritime disaster that washed up on shore and was "oriented" in the same way as was Desmond? Who came before Calvin? Was Calvin there since the last version of the Orientation film? 1980?

Let's see...Danielle would have been there since 1988. And she didn't know of the hatch before the Lostaways showed her. So she wasn't a button pusher. Could she have been part of another experiment on the island? Perhaps she was an unwitting experimentee? Her experiment could have been some sort of psychological test where she was made to believe all her crew except her were "sick" and had to be destroyed to see what she would do? Just like the hatch/button experiment could be an experiment to see how long a person will continue pushing a button on the belief that something terrible will happen if they don't do so. For all we know the plane crash was part of another experiment that wanted to see how people would form a new society in face of little resources, no hope, and rabid kidnapping pirates! (LOL)

This opens up so many possibilities! Yay, go LOST writers!

Its a guess man. BF SKinner gives it all away! The guy locked his children in boxes and told them to push buttons to get treats. The Hanso foundation is supposed to be doing similar research as his. Its all just an elaborate experiment.

also I wish I was a writer for the show, but i don't think I'm that good.

I thought the film just said that the two people who found this experiment were sort of following in the footsteps of this "skinner" guy, among others....i didnt think they meant it as doing things exactly like he did...or following up on some of his actual work....i figured they meant that they were willing to try new things like he was or something like that.

But ill give you the edge...because ive never even heard of this BF Skinner guy.

There's another interesting gap right at the end after the narrator says "thank you" and before he says "good luck." It looks like there is another section in between of which we're only seeing a tiny clip. The audio clearly has breaks immediately before and immediately after. It's clear that something has been cut out there. He has his hand in front of his face and it sounds like he's saying like "I must admit." His body lanuage and intonation suddenly seems far more serious.

sorry if this has been posted before, but its too early in the morning to read everything on this.

Reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone where some family had a button in their home and were paid money to push the button. But they knew that everytime they pushed it, somebody would die.

They kept pushing it though, because if they didnt push it, than some other family somewhere would get the button and they may be the ones to die when it got pushed. Not to mention they got money each time it was pushed.

Anyway, they took the button apart and found it was just some simple mechanical thing not attached to anything. Just a button that does nothing.

Good episode about what people will do in strange situations.

By the way, did anybody catch how many days each "button pusher team" was supposed to be in the hatch before their replacement arrived?

I am sorry if this was posted before, but during the filmstrip, when they showed that guy standing in the window, I believe he was the benefactor? Anyway, he was standing there, so stiff, so statue like, that he reminded me of Jack's father, when he first appeared to him on the island. I know it is most likely NOT him, but it just felt like him, if that makes sense. Did anyone else notice this? It was a lot to process at once lol.

And it does look like we know how the polar bears got there. :)

New Crackpot theory (#125 for those of you playing at home)

I predict that Hanso will turn out to be the captain of the Black Rock, or else someone on the ship. Due to some effect of the island (the alien spaceship buried far underground) he has been able to live for hundreds of years and has used the island and it's secrets to amass a fortune. He is a munitions dealer/inventor, so that leads me to believe that his near-immortality, combined with knowledge gleaned from the spaceship is what has allowed him to attain this specialty.

By the way, did anybody catch how many days each "button pusher team" was supposed to be in the hatch before their replacement arrived?

It's 540 days...for the number freaks out there, it's 108 multiplied by 5.

New Crackpot theory (#125 for those of you playing at home)

I predict that Hanso will turn out to be the captain of the Black Rock, or else someone on the ship. Due to some effect of the island (the alien spaceship buried far underground) he has been able to live for hundreds of years and has used the island and it's secrets to amass a fortune. He is a munitions dealer/inventor, so that leads me to believe that his near-immortality, combined with knowledge gleaned from the spaceship is what has allowed him to attain this specialty.

I just don't see aliens playing a signifigant or any part in this at all.....despite what it says on the Hanso Foundation website. Aliens are too big a leap for us audience members to take....so many people would call it a copout, and the similarities to other supernatural/scifi/mystery shows would be too apparent.

I think this entire operation was started in the 40's....post war style. Maybe some nazi involvement? I don't know really, just a thought. Seems like nazi's are always a great enemy...easier to accept than aliens, (sadly), and sufficiently sick and evil to concoct a massive experiment like this island is.

It's been talked about around other threads, but I like the idea of Locke's father being involved....not necessarily but as Alvaro Hanso himself but definitley a player. We have no explanation for his wealth. Might as well be dirty island money.

540 days. 180 times 5 or:

There are 777,600 minutes in 540 days

meaning that the button gets pushed exactly 7200 times in that period of time.

Could these new numbers somehow be related to an opposite number set?

Maybe something like 0, 6,7, 54, 72, 77 (total 216)

It is her!!! and fat fro-head bearded guy was on the boat as well. I suspect they are LOVAHS.

http://humpys.net/images/theothers.jpg

That's awesome! I hope it really is them. I think her name is Jerold. I missed the names during the film, but she was one of the founders. The onlt problem I see is that the initiative began in 1970, the film was made in 1980, so why does she look so young? I know, it's a little hard to see, but wouldn't she be in her late 50's at this point if they are the same person? Just an observation, but I hope it is true.

Do you think the "incident" is what killed off Danielle's crew 16 years ago? Desmond has only been there 3 years. Hmmm.......
I don't think so. Again, the film was made in 1980, so it was made before Danille's crew got there.

As far as what would happen if they stopped pushing the button...I'm thinking that the electromagnet is what's causing all these planes and boats to crash on the island. So, if they stop pushing the button, will it turn off the electromagnet? As of right now, I don't think they'd be able to get rescued because any rescue boat or plane that came close would crash also. The island seems to be, well, a magnet, collecting all these survivors from crashes. I mean, how many people are on this island? The plane crash survivors, Danielle, Despond, the Others, etc. This island is getting pretty crowded. But then again, the Black Rock did crash long before there was an electromagnet, so maybe there is something else drawing everyone to the island? Oh, my head is spinning.

Someone spent millions (billions?) of dollars on a psychological experiment? That doesn't make much sense when very similar reactions could have been gained from a much smaller scale experiment done in a labrotory somewhere. Why build an enormous underground bunker and supply all of the computer equipment drugs and food in the middle of a not-so-deserted island when the exact same experiment could be done in a basement in the middle of Kansas? That would make no sense.
Also since there's now a Hanso Foundation website for us fans I'm thinking that the organization is really into what it briefly describes on the website. Why make it otherwise?

They might need a "real world" result. If you know you can just holler stop, and the experiment is over, then the results are skewed. So, plop people down there, tell them that you're saving the world, and seal them up.

The military used to do this type of thing with the people down in the missile silos. They would send them a code, and it would signify launching the nukes. The people in the silos believed it to be real, but the code was a test code, so the missiles wouldn't launch. Then, they could see who would actually "push the button", if needed. (Actually, turn a key, but same idea.)

It is her!!! and fat fro-head bearded guy was on the boat as well. I suspect they are LOVAHS.

http://humpys.net/images/theothers.jpg

The guy doesn't look anything like M.C. Gainey.

Who's gonna call that number?
why would you bother those people. They are simply the tech guys who registered the domain. They don't know anything about the show.

That's awesome! I hope it really is them. I think her name is Jerold. I missed the names during the film, but she was one of the founders. The onlt problem I see is that the initiative began in 1970, the film was made in 1980, so why does she look so young? I know, it's a little hard to see, but wouldn't she be in her late 50's at this point if they are the same person? Just an observation, but I hope it is true.


I don't think so. Again, the film was made in 1980, so it was made before Danille's crew got there.

As far as what would happen if they stopped pushing the button...I'm thinking that the electromagnet is what's causing all these planes and boats to crash on the island. So, if they stop pushing the button, will it turn off the electromagnet? As of right now, I don't think they'd be able to get rescued because any rescue boat or plane that came close would crash also. The island seems to be, well, a magnet, collecting all these survivors from crashes. I mean, how many people are on this island? The plane crash survivors, Danielle, Despond, the Others, etc. This island is getting pretty crowded. But then again, the Black Rock did crash long before there was an electromagnet, so maybe there is something else drawing everyone to the island? Oh, my head is spinning.


The Hanso site mentions life extension as one of their areas of study, so that could explain why these folks are still looking so young.

I also think that the Island was chosen for the experiments because of it's natural electromagnetic properties. This would mean that the island could have been draggin people in for many, many years.

I thought that the electronics guy in the film looked like Sayid in goggles hunkered over some equipment he was trying to fix. Coincidental, I'm sure...but man, I was like: He sorta looks like Sayid!
He certainly seemed to know something about how that computer worked. In under 5 minutes he replaced the motherboard and power supply. He is like Super-Macgyver! Fixing computers with no spare parts in less than a minute. Thats impressive.

I have to admit, I do not think that I like where this is taking the series, but I am willing to give it a chance. When the film was being set up I could not help but hear "Hello, I'm Troy McClure and you may recognize me from other films such as..." It was a little hokey, but I am willing to give it a chance to see where it goes from here.

As far as what would happen if they stopped pushing the button...I'm thinking that the electromagnet is what's causing all these planes and boats to crash on the island. So, if they stop pushing the button, will it turn off the electromagnet?

that's great... i'm right there with you, but with one tiny difference... i think that if you stop pushing the code in, the magnet comes back ON, thus pulling another plane/boat/something towards the island, so there is another, set of hands to press the button/play the game...

just a thought.

On the Hanso Foundation website, it won't let you access any of the active projects, but the ending of each little blurb it states:
Thank you. Namaste. Good Luck.
Namaste?????

According to this site http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/namaste1.html
It is Hindu and a greeting.

For, Hindu(s), of course, the greeting of choice is "Namaste,"
the two hands pressed together and held near the heart with the
head gently bowed as one says, "Namaste." Thus it is both a
spoken greeting and a gesture, a Mantr(a) and a Mudr(a). The
prayerful hand position is a Mudr(a) called Anjali, from the root
Anj, "to adorn, honor, celebrate or anoint." The hands held in
union signify the oneness of an apparently dual cosmos, the
bringing together of spirit and matter, or the self meeting the
Self. It has been said that the right hand represents the higher
nature or that which is divine in us, while the left hand
represents the lower, worldly nature.

I have to admit, I do not think that I like where this is taking the series, but I am willing to give it a chance. When the film was being set up I could not help but hear "Hello, I'm Troy McClure and you may recognize me from other films such as..." It was a little hokey, but I am willing to give it a chance to see where it goes from here.


I disagree. I really like where they're heading with it. Plus, it really only explains what the experiments were and whatnot. There is still the whole question of Why that island. From things like the Black Rock and Adam and Eve, it seems that things have been going on on this island for much longer than the Hanso corperation has been there.

That episode was awesome...and that is a great link. Underneath the links you can highlight Dharma Initiative in green.

Notice the filmstrip included a missing section

"The computer must never be used to....(Missing section)...Good luck with your task."

near the very end

I had the exact same thought running through my head. hmmmmmm :rolleyes:

that's great... i'm right there with you, but with one tiny difference... i think that if you stop pushing the code in, the magnet comes back ON, thus pulling another plane/boat/something towards the island, so there is another, set of hands to press the button/play the game...

just a thought.

That's interesting too. But then how did flight 815 crash? Was it maybe towards the end of the count down? Does the magnet get stronger as it counts down the minutes, so pushing the button resets it? And if the button isn't pushed it goes on at full strength?

Didn't B.F. Skinner write Walden Two? The story of a new Utopia? I faintly remembering reading it a long time ago. Strange book.

Didn't B.F. Skinner write Walden Two? The story of a new Utopia? I faintly remembering reading it a long time ago. Strange book.

Yup.

B. F. Skinner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner#Rumors
http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/skinner.html

I wonder what was up with Desmond's face when he was told that they crashed 44 days ago. Maybe he slipped up and missed an input, and it did turn on the magnet for a moment as you suggest.

Here is a thread where I guessed that the button is nothing but a psychological placebo.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=20410

That website is awesome I tried finding it during commercial breaks last night but didn't think to add "the" to the front.

I am tearing apart the source code on the pages to see if I can't get the dharma initiative link to work.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the 5 other animals or station names are?

I think this entire operation was started in the 40's....post war style. Maybe some nazi involvement? I don't know really, just a thought. Seems like nazi's are always a great enemy...easier to accept than aliens, (sadly), and sufficiently sick and evil to concoct a massive experiment like this island is.
Well, guys, I tried to read this entire long thread before responding to anything, to avoid repeating anything, but the thread is very large already and, face it, on a large board like the 'lage with so many forums, it is almost impossible not to repeat something someone said, so I am just gonna jump in and not worry (too much *lol*) about it, because I have just reached a new level of total obsession with LOST after last night's show and must DISCUSS *lol*!

I must have watched the orientation filmstrip at least three times. I taped the episode to VHS tape and, the funny thing is, my new VCR/DVD combo makes this awful noise which I describe to people as an "old school filmstrip projector noise", so it just added to the authentic feel of the filmstrip *LOL*! Anyway, there is SO MUCH to muse about and dissect about last night's episode, that I will confine myself to just the filmstrip in this post:

1. Whoa.
2. DUDE!
3. I really think I was on to something in my thread "Sinister Utopia?", posted on the general theories board after watching the season two premiere. I really got the hint in "Man of Science, Man of Faith", from all the idealistic 1960's symbolism such as the music and the geodesic dome design, etc., as well as the other unique symbolism such as the emblem, etc., that whatever experimentation is going on down there (I had long since concluded that experimentation either had been or still was going on) was not simply a straight military thing in nature, but had to be somehow privately funded and probably on a large, international scale of some sort, and it had to be for some stated idealistic purposes. Yet it seemed to have Orwellian, fascistic undertones beneath the stated idealism. Now, after "Orientation", I feel certain that some dark international conspiracy is using flowery idealism to mask some fascistic designs they have on the world. SHUDDER!
4. I think foggynotion could even be onto something with this thing going back to the 30's or 40's and having roots somehow in Nazism. If you look, for example, at the symbol in the link in this thread for the "foundation" (!), it looks like a rearranged swastika to me!!!!!
5. Michigan...the university where these two "graduate students" thought up the Dharma initiative was in Michigan. Which Lostaway(s) is/are connected to Michigan?
6. The Asian connection is clear in this filmstrip, making me think of our old buddy, Piek (whose name I never know how to spell) and his probable connection to all of this.
7. I agree, that shadowy financier figure in the building DID look like Locke's dad...but why would Locke's dad have looked the same age as he looks now in some long-ago filmstrip from the 70's. And why would the blonde "other" chick from the present be the same chick, same age, as some chick from decades ago, as some posters think she is? Could this filmstrip really be a recent creation, cooked up to APPEAR way older than it really is? Or are we all wack in seeing people from the "present" day, or relatively "present" day, I mean, Locke's dad--if it was Locke's dad--looks like he did back in the flashbacks from last night, so when were the flashbacks, like, four years ago or something?.
8. Is it totally just me, or did the building where that shadowy figure was shown look like (window-wise) the building housing Hurley's corporate offices back home? The windows seemed the same to me, but I'll have to watch that episode on DVD, as I could be TOTALLY wack on that one.
9. What was "the incident"?
10. Polar bears: I don't necessarily believe that the button must be pushed, as it could indeed be a psychological experiment, but I DO believe that there are all these different experiments going on on the island, because we have SEEN a polar bear and he (she?) wasn't any sort of projected image (as the Walt sighting, for example, might have been), because they shot that sucka dead and touched him (her?) and everything. That was one real polar bear. Perhaps the bear's escape out onto the island was part of "the incident"? At any rate, I think the other stations of The Dharma Initiative are all on the island, too.

Folks, I think what we have on our hands here is indeed some sort of sinister international consortium that has a fascistic plan for, apparently, the entire WORLD. Apparently, the experimentation going on on the island is to ultimately enable this consortium to take over the world via controlling it through all these methods that they are experimenting with (psychological, social, etc.). They are making it sound like it is all for idealistic, scholarly, educational purposes and possibly creating ways to build a utopian, loving society, yet I think what they are really trying to do is find ways to CONTROL THE WORLD, thus having complete fascistic power themselves and control of all the world's resources and wealth.

Whether this did indeed begin in the 60's is debatable. There is a lot of symbolism from that era, yet some things seem to go back farther and again, that logo in the foundation link looks like a swastika that has been thinly disguised to look like it isn't one. Could there be a Nazi connection? Not sure about that, but I do feel sure that this is indeed some "sinister utopia" as I previously speculated after "Man of Science, Man of Faith". That orientation filmstrip in "Orientation" just sealed this for me. The filmstrip, btw, is Emmy material imho. It was just SO perfectly done, from that weird, vaguely Asian/eastern/Buddhist, yet somehow reminiscent of sort of mind control, upbeat, fascist type indoctrination music at the beginning, to the very end, and then that PERFECT line written for Locke one beat after the strip ended: "We're gonna have to watch that again."

Kudos to the LOST team for "Orientation". I happen to have my degree in cultural anthropology and sociology and I also grew up in the 1970's. I found everything, every detail, in that filmstrip to be very authentic and believable, very "period"...and it perfectly struck this chord, this tone, this note of pretending to be so idealistic yet really having this dark true motive beneath it that we aren't supposed to see through to. It definitely seemed like a fascist dressed in 1960's idealist's clothing. SHUDDER!

I really hope this is not going to turn into the CastAway version of the Truman Show.

Hope this doesnt sound too egocentric but does anyone other than me think that Locke's line at the end of the filmstrip, "we're gonna have to watch that again" is a nod to all of US, discussing the show and how many times we say, "hmmm, I'm gonna have to watch that again" ? That's the first thing I thought right after he said it....Then of course, at the end of last night epi I said to myself, "I'm gonna have to watch that again!"

I'm surprised that I haven't read this postulated here yet -- We were told that Alvar Hanso is a weapons manufacturing magnate who funds these "Dharma" research outposts and other scientific organizations around the world. What if the Hanso Foundation was using the Dharma Initiative as an unwitting front for the development of some kind of weapon? An isolated 'research station' would be a great place to conduct this sort of research away from prying eyes and what better cover-up than an organization whose expressed goal is 'world peace?'

Perhaps Hanso was using the Swan station for a far different purpose than it was originally intended. Some kind of mishap this way could explain the lockdown and the need for a quarantine, although the timer still seems a little off.

Hope this doesnt sound too egocentric but does anyone other than me think that Locke's line at the end of the filmstrip, "we're gonna have to watch that again" is a nod to all of US, discussing the show and how many times we say, "hmmm, I'm gonna have to watch that again" ? That's the first thing I thought right after he said it....Then of course, at the end of last night epi I said to myself, "I'm gonna have to watch that again!"
TOTALLY! I was LOL at that one, it was soooooooooooo perfect! I think Locke definitely represented all of us Lost fans of the OBSESSED variety out here in Lost Land, as weren't we all just thinking the EXACT same thing when he said it *lol*? omg, I just thought that was so funny, as it was appropriate for Locke to say that to Jack at that moment, yet it also demonstrates the sense of humor of the Lost writing team for sticking that one in there as a little gentle chiding of us fans out here. They know us too well!!!!!
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Yup Mikenmo I think a good majority of us "freaks" agree with you on that one. A good laugh at our expense.

Seriously though I would have watched it again anyway - it went by so fast how could you really get all of it in one swoop? If it was a serious film...why was Jack so against watching it since it had "answers?"

The filmstrip also said that the 3rd station was created due to the existence of electromagnetic activity on the island. Also since an "incident" they've had to punch in this code every 108 minutes.

It is odd that the Dharma Initiative has decided to respond to the incident by having someone enter a code and push a button every 108 minutes. Why not just automate the process? Even an Apple II+ computer was capable of that kind of automation. I suppose there are concerns about possible power failures and the like. But even so, why not staff the Swan with a single man whose job is to enter the code in the event that the automatic procedure fails? Why make the man -- or the team of men -- do it themselves?

It really does seem more like a B.F. Skinner "black-box" experiment than like a critical facility.

On the Hanso Foundation website, it won't let you access any of the active projects, but the ending of each little blurb it states:
Thank you. Namaste. Good Luck.
Namaste?????

According to this site http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/namaste1.html
It is Hindu and a greeting.

For, Hindu(s), of course, the greeting of choice is "Namaste,"
the two hands pressed together and held near the heart with the
head gently bowed as one says, "Namaste." Thus it is both a
spoken greeting and a gesture, a Mantr(a) and a Mudr(a). The
prayerful hand position is a Mudr(a) called Anjali, from the root
Anj, "to adorn, honor, celebrate or anoint." The hands held in
union signify the oneness of an apparently dual cosmos, the
bringing together of spirit and matter, or the self meeting the
Self. It has been said that the right hand represents the higher
nature or that which is divine in us, while the left hand
represents the lower, worldly nature.

Thanks! I was wondering what he said in the film between thank you and good luck!

First post, woot!. I'm going along with the theory that only STATION 3 is on THIS island. One, it film said the location was choosen for the magnetic properties of the island. Secondly....we can guess that each of the 6 locations has it's own logo. The logo for station 3 is the Dharma swan. Why would the Dharma Swan be the only logo on the tail of the shark in the ocean that attacks the raft? Why wouldn't it be the logo for one of the other groups. I bet if the LostAways were to find the polar bear remains, a logo would be found somewhere on it as well.

Maybe once they don't push the button the experiment ends and you can go home.

Never underestimate scientists and how much money they will spend to trick and persuade people. People who want to learn so badly about human behavior will do anything to study it. I don't know if EVERYTHING about this island can be explained by this corporation because I don't see how they could plant things like when Locke had that flash about that drug plane crashing and then seeing Boone dead.

However, one thing they said they were studying in that film was parapsychology which is the study of anything that cannot be explained scientifically. Like the study of telepathy or precognition, reincarnation, telekinesis and out of body experiences. Maybe that is why they took Walt? If the "others" are the scientists.

There may be a lot more than just a single B.F. Skinner "black-box" experiment taking place on the island. But given the Dharma scientists' states propensity for Skinner-style experimentation, it's not surprising that, tucked in among the more serious scientific projects there might be a single psychological experiment. It may even be that the Dharma Initiative conceived of the psychological experiment only later, after the incident prevented the Swan station from fulfilling its original purpose. Rather than let the station go to waste, perhaps the Dharma scientists decided they could use it to observe a pair of test subjects under unusual conditions.

I'm wondering about the Skinner thing. Desmond said he crashed and got ashore somehow, that Calvin came running out of the jungle and dragged him to the hatch, where they pushed the button together for a while before Calvin died. He didn't know Calvin before? So Calvin felt a real sense of urgency to take some bedraggled boatwreck dude to push the button with him, to round out his team?
My guess is that the electromagnetic hoo-ha makes ships and planes crash there, and the Skinner thesis makes the hatch person or people go and recruit survivors to keep the button-pushing going. I have no idea about further purposes of the button, but this makes sense to me.

First post, woot!. I'm going along with the theory that only STATION 3 is on THIS island. One, it film said the location was choosen for the magnetic properties of the island. Secondly....we can guess that each of the 6 locations has it's own logo. The logo for station 3 is the Dharma swan. Why would the Dharma Swan be the only logo on the tail of the shark in the ocean that attacks the raft? Why wouldn't it be the logo for one of the other groups. I bet if the LostAways were to find the polar bear remains, a logo would be found somewhere on it as well.

I thought the film's narrator referred to the electromagnetic properties of "this sector" or "this area" or "this portion" of the island. (Obviously, I can't remember the precise language used.)

FWIW...I did some poking around on http://www.thehansofoundation.org and I found this:

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ref_video.gif

Looks like we can expect a video soon.

Oh, and here's a nice big background, which is now my background.

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ui_bg.jpg

The film, with its reference to B.F. Skinner and behaviorism, certainly invited the conclusion Jack drew -- namely, that the whole set-up is an experiment designed to determine how the keepers of the Swan will react under very abnormal stresses.


BF Skinner was a red flag for me. he was a behaviorist and used/studied positive and negative reinforcement. Also he created something called a skinner box and used rats in it - when the rats hit the right button they got a food pellet if they were wrong they got a shock. I would have had the same conclusion as jack - that it is just part of an experiment and if you didn't enter the code that nothing would happen. If you miss a code the experiment is probably over and they start over with new people.

I think that creepy filmstrip narrator in "Orientation" referred to the unique electromagnetic properties of the northern sector of the island.

(btw, WELCOME, unlockethehatch!)

I think that all of six (looks like SEVEN in the Hanso Foundation link, but anyhoooo) experiment stations are on this island.

New Crackpot theory (#125 for those of you playing at home)

I predict that Hanso will turn out to be the captain of the Black Rock, or else someone on the ship. Due to some effect of the island (the alien spaceship buried far underground) he has been able to live for hundreds of years and has used the island and it's secrets to amass a fortune. He is a munitions dealer/inventor, so that leads me to believe that his near-immortality, combined with knowledge gleaned from the spaceship is what has allowed him to attain this specialty.

Well, the Hanso Foundation website does mention the "Hanson Life-Extension Project"!

FWIW...I did some poking around on http://www.thehansofoundation.org and I found this:

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ref_video.gif

Looks like we can expect a video soon.

Oh, and here's a nice big background, which is now my background.

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ui_bg.jpg


Yea I had noticed that as well.

Going with the mirror and reversed stuff...http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ref_general.gif

My ears picked at the Skinner comment as well. It made me skeptical of the idea that all of that was 'real'.

I wonder what was up with Desmond's face when he was told that they crashed 44 days ago. Maybe he slipped up and missed an input, and it did turn on the magnet for a moment as you suggest.

This thought occurred to me at first, but I don't think it's likely that Desmond ever missed an input. If he had, he would know that missing an input doesn't cause the world to end, or even the Swan station to blow up, and he wouldn't be so frightened.

Thanks! I was wondering what he said in the film between thank you and good luck!
Oh my gosh. You are so right. I was just going off of what was on the web site for the foundation, but now that you mention it he did say it on the film last night. :o

This thought occurred to me at first, but I don't think it's likely that Desmond ever missed an input. If he had, he would know that missing an input doesn't cause the world to end, or even the Swan station to blow up, and he wouldn't be so frightened.

Desmond seemed surprised, when Locke told him the world was still there.:)

It's been talked about around other threads, but I like the idea of Locke's father being involved....not necessarily but as Alvaro Hanso himself but definitley a player. We have no explanation for his wealth. Might as well be dirty island money.
Oh, I think he is definitely in the mix, big time, as one of the "top tier" members of the project, or however it is phrased on the Hanso Foundation site, when you click on one of the active projects and it tells you that you don't have clearance to view the project beause you aren't a "top tier" member *lol*. I think Locke's dad and Piek are both top dogs/financiers in this thing. What freaks me out is, why do we see Jin speaking ENGLIGH in the teaser for next week...could this possibly mean--and I hope it doesn't, as I love the Jin I thought I was getting to know--that Jin has been in on this for a long time now, since way before the crash, and has been doing Piek's bidding all along? I don't think so, for many reasons, for example, he was genuinely shaken up in the men's room at the airport when one of Piek's men threatened him...still, why was he speaking English? Guess that's a topic for another thread!. Anyway, Locke's dad and Piek are both in this thing up to their eyeballs. Who knows if Locke's dad is even really Locke's dad. His mom said "You were immaculately conceived"...perhaps Locke himself is one of the original experiments and he was somehow created on the island (I mean, he is human, of course, but created in a petri dish or something *lol*) and "released" back out into society so that they could study him. Now they have brought him back for whatever reason(s). ANYWAY: So hard to stay on one narrow topic after last night's episode, which had more mysteries and storylines going on than one could shake a stick at. But as far as Locke's dad, he's a baaaaaaaaaad guy, and right up there in this "Dharma Initiative", me thinks.

This is my first post, but has anyone else noticed that there is a hidden link to the DHARMA Initiative, on the HANSO website. But it doesn't work.

there is a hidden link?

Where?

Yeah, I noticed that.

LOL, well, I'm a little late in coming (10 pages!!!) but I read it all. I think what I was about to say has allready been said many times though...

I definently agree with the elctro-magnetic thing pulling in all these ships and planes (the drug carrying plane too) It makes sense.

On the Hanso Foundation website, it won't let you access any of the active projects, but the ending of each little blurb it states:
Thank you. Namaste. Good Luck.
Namaste?????

According to this site http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/namaste1.html
It is Hindu and a greeting.

For, Hindu(s), of course, the greeting of choice is "Namaste,"
the two hands pressed together and held near the heart with the
head gently bowed as one says, "Namaste." Thus it is both a
spoken greeting and a gesture, a Mantr(a) and a Mudr(a). The
prayerful hand position is a Mudr(a) called Anjali, from the root
Anj, "to adorn, honor, celebrate or anoint." The hands held in
union signify the oneness of an apparently dual cosmos, the
bringing together of spirit and matter, or the self meeting the
Self. It has been said that the right hand represents the higher
nature or that which is divine in us, while the left hand
represents the lower, worldly nature.

man·tra ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mntr, mn-)
n.
Hinduism. A sacred verbal formula repeated in prayer, meditation, or incantation, such as an invocation of a god, a magic spell, or a syllable or portion of scripture containing mystical potentialities.

mantra

n 1: a commonly repeated word or phrase; "she repeated `So pleased with how its going' at intervals like a mantra" 2: (Sanskrit) literally a `sacred utterance' in Vedism; one of a collection of orally transmitted poetic hymns

Its a guess man. BF SKinner gives it all away! The guy locked his children in boxes and told them to push buttons to get treats. The Hanso foundation is supposed to be doing similar research as his. Its all just an elaborate experiment.

also I wish I was a writer for the show, but i don't think I'm that good.

By the way, Skinner's daughter says she was never locked in a box. She had an air-conditioned crib, but it was not a box. Here's a link to her side of the story:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/healthmindandbody/story/0,6000,1168052,00.html

if you go to the HANSO page, and go to the active projrcts links, move your mouse pointer over the area directly under the The Hanso Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/arvtf.html) link, and it will show the hidden link.

Lots has already been said about the film in this thread - and so far it was probably my favorite revelation on the series. Several things I wanted to mention.. the guy in the window - Hanso - at first looked to be one of the dads - either locke or jacks - but after rewatching a few times, i thought it looked more like Leslie Nielson - go figure. My other thought was that the windows reminded me of the world trade center -- and i'm guessing that's because i was thinking and writing about the towers yesterday in the adrift thread. but nonetheless - the windows did remind me of them. My feeling was that most if not all of the other projects are taking place on this island - and that the sector known as Swan - where we are - is just one of several places there. Can't wait to see more on this.
ETA- gah.. and the reason I replied in the first place -- the BF Skinner reference was probably the most important clue we've had so far. My undergrad degree was in Psychology - lots of skinner - my grad. degree is in mental health counseling.. behavior modification.. lots of skinner..

216 = 108 x 2

did anyone catch when locke was sitting in from of his father's house and his father got in the car. they had a brief conversation and Locke asked him why? his father said that he's a con man and he's conned many people in his life. did anyone make the connection that he may be the real "Sawyer"? the guy that Sawyer is looking for.

Oh, I think he is definitely in the mix, big time, as one of the "top tier" members of the project, or however it is phrased on the Hanso Foundation site, when you click on one of the active projects and it tells you that you don't have clearance to view the project beause you aren't a "top tier" member *lol*. I think Locke's dad and Piek are both top dogs/financiers in this thing. What freaks me out is, why do we see Jin speaking ENGLIGH in the teaser for next week...could this possibly mean--and I hope it doesn't, as I love the Jin I thought I was getting to know--that Jin has been in on this for a long time now, since way before the crash, and has been doing Piek's bidding all along? I don't think so, for many reasons, for example, he was genuinely shaken up in the men's room at the airport when one of Piek's men threatened him...still, why was he speaking English? Guess that's a topic for another thread!. Anyway, Locke's dad and Piek are both in this thing up to their eyeballs. Who knows if Locke's dad is even really Locke's dad. His mom said "You were immaculately conceived"...perhaps Locke himself is one of the original experiments and he was somehow created on the island (I mean, he is human, of course, but created in a petri dish or something *lol*) and "released" back out into society so that they could study him. Now they have brought him back for whatever reason(s). ANYWAY: So hard to stay on one narrow topic after last night's episode, which had more mysteries and storylines going on than one could shake a stick at. But as far as Locke's dad, he's a baaaaaaaaaad guy, and right up there in this "Dharma Initiative", me thinks.

you have some really good stuff in here. as far as jin goes - I don't want him to speak english - I love jin and if he could speak english all along that would really take away from the person I thought he was. Why wouldn't he have made it easy on himself and came out of the closet when his wife did. that totally blew my mind last night when I saw that part of the previews

Ya know maybe locks dad isn't his dad but locke is actually a clone of his. if that POS is in on the dharma stuff maybe part of the island is genetic research - specializing in cloning etc. He knew they made clones of him (one could be shannons dad as other posters have mentioned that he looked like locke) - more than one and when his kidney failed he took his clones aka lockes (which will mean his clone will need a kidney when he is old too) that would explain why the father is so cold to his son because he isn't his son at all.

did anyone catch when locke was sitting in from of his father's house and his father got in the car. they had a brief conversation and Locke asked him why? his father said that he's a con man and he's conned many people in his life. did anyone make the connection that he may be the real "Sawyer"? the guy that Sawyer is looking for.


whoa that is major!!!! Good catch! that could be how he got rich.

That's what i was thinking when he said that. That could explain all the money.

Did anyone catch when Jack looked at the picture of Desmond with a girl in the bunker? Did it look like Jack's wife? does anyone have a screen shot of that?

Accelerated Remote Viewing = Seeing the future, time travel, bending time and space

http://www.probablefuture.com/

FWIW...I did some poking around on http://www.thehansofoundation.org and I found this:

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ref_video.gif

Looks like we can expect a video soon.



I'm sure it will connect to the "Dharma Inititive" link that isn't working yet.

So far we have recognized the man and woman "others" in the film and the guy that looks like Sayid. (Does anyone have a screencap of that guy?) Sayid was in the Republican Guard. Maybe he was recruited at some point; told that this was for the RG?

Didn't look like Jacks wife to me, but it looked like a women on the boat that took Walt.

I'm going to be the first person on this thread to say this:

Hanso and Lockes dad look nothing alike. They are both white, white-haired men but, for me, the similarity ends there. I think we are trying way to hard to connect everything and we only have like 7% of the information. Just my $.02.

I take it back. I just saw an HD cap of the "Sayid" scientist and they don't look alike at all!

I think its obvious that he was saying "The computer must never be used to....(Missing section)...Good luck with your task."

You must never download porn, and then it went into a booring HR lecture...

That's why it was deleted.

Im from Narvik in Norway....

Our City hall was featured in the filmstrip....

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4846/lostinnarvik5mm.jpg


You can even see the City Crest in red on the lower left side of building.
The statue in front is a war memorial statue to tribute the toils of the civil population during the WWII German occupation, 1940-45. If your a Lost fan from this town... i guess that awesome...

i agree with sier - i think hanso looked like leslie nielsen

I'm going to be the first person on this thread to say this:
Hanso and Lockes dad look nothing alike. They are both white, white-haired men but, for me, the similarity ends there. I think we are trying way to hard to connect everything and we only have like 7% of the information. Just my $.02.
Agreed. And all blonde women are Jack's wife or Helen. And all black men are Rose's husband. Regarding Hanso - since Jack and Locke were both watching the film, they would probably recognize their dad if it had been him.

He certainly seemed to know something about how that computer worked. In under 5 minutes he replaced the motherboard and power supply. He is like Super-Macgyver! Fixing computers with no spare parts in less than a minute. Thats impressive.


Yeah...I <heart> Sayid, Super-MacGyver!

I have to admit, I do not think that I like where this is taking the series, but I am willing to give it a chance. When the film was being set up I could not help but hear "Hello, I'm Troy McClure and you may recognize me from other films such as..." It was a little hokey, but I am willing to give it a chance to see where it goes from here.


TOTALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Though I thought they tried a little too hard making that new film look "old", if you know what I mean.

But hey...made in 1970, copyrighted 1980. Hmmm...maybe the gaps in the film were edited out for the 1980 version and if they could find the original film, perhaps behind a copy of "Tale of Two Cities" or "Anna Karenina", maybe the unfortunate incident alluded to by Mr. Hasbo Dharma Swan Guy could be uncovered before season 16.


This was on the Hasbo site (that I'm sure you all have already read)-

Driven by a need for privacy and a deep-seated sense of humility, Alvar Hanso has released few details of his personal life to the public.

He first made his mark during the Second World War, providing munitions to various resistance movements around Europe. After the War, Hanso became the leading purveyor of high-technology armaments to NATO.

Key being this guy was doing his thang waaaay back in the 1940s. There's our continuity. Now to connect the dots...

Has anyone figured out an ANAGRAM for Alvar Hanso? I tried here (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Alvar+Hanso), but couldn't come up with much...except for the name SARAH.

Hey Everyone
My first post ...just been enjoying all of your commentary so far .. but after last night I had to post!
The man in the filmstrip did say that this station was the 3rd station or swan station.
He also said "in this sector of the island" so you've got to figure that the rest of the stations are located in different sectors of the same island.
Stations / Projects
Life Extension
Electromagnetic Research
Quest for Extra-Ter. Intelligence
Mathematical Forecasting
Cryogenics
Eugenics
Remote Viewing
but that's 7 projects and the filmstrip says that the swan station is 3 of 6?
so where's number 7?
anyways just wanted to post and I will take a look at the episode again to see what else I can find ... thx

Oh, I think he is definitely in the mix, big time, as one of the "top tier" members of the project, or however it is phrased on the Hanso Foundation site, when you click on one of the active projects and it tells you that you don't have clearance to view the project beause you aren't a "top tier" member *lol*. I think Locke's dad and Piek are both top dogs/financiers in this thing. What freaks me out is, why do we see Jin speaking ENGLIGH in the teaser for next week...could this possibly mean--and I hope it doesn't, as I love the Jin I thought I was getting to know--that Jin has been in on this for a long time now, since way before the crash, and has been doing Piek's bidding all along? I don't think so, for many reasons, for example, he was genuinely shaken up in the men's room at the airport when one of Piek's men threatened him...still, why was he speaking English? Guess that's a topic for another thread!. Anyway, Locke's dad and Piek are both in this thing up to their eyeballs. Who knows if Locke's dad is even really Locke's dad. His mom said "You were immaculately conceived"...perhaps Locke himself is one of the original experiments and he was somehow created on the island (I mean, he is human, of course, but created in a petri dish or something *lol*) and "released" back out into society so that they could study him. Now they have brought him back for whatever reason(s). ANYWAY: So hard to stay on one narrow topic after last night's episode, which had more mysteries and storylines going on than one could shake a stick at. But as far as Locke's dad, he's a baaaaaaaaaad guy, and right up there in this "Dharma Initiative", me thinks.

I have a sneaking suspicion you may be right about Locke.

I'm going to be the first person on this thread to say this:

Hanso and Lockes dad look nothing alike. They are both white, white-haired men but, for me, the similarity ends there. I think we are trying way to hard to connect everything and we only have like 7% of the information. Just my $.02.
Totally agree with you Sier. I don't think they look alike at all. I think he will have a connections to some of the lostaways, just in ways that we haven't seen yet.

ya, it was not jacks wife at all!

flora said:
Though I thought they tried a little too hard making that new film look "old", if you know what I mean.

Hope I am not derailing the thread but this peaked my interest as well.
Desmond knows right where the orientation film is. It is hidden behind a book. Why hide an orientation film? Seems kind of like the dieter who hides the candy. They can’t have it out in plain sight because it will be too tempting. Is Desmond obsessed with this film? Is it looking worn out and possibly repaired because he has watched it so often? Locke’s comment that they will have to watch it again could be a wink to us, or a clue about Desmond’s obsession with the film. Of course it could have just been a way to point out that book to us.

If they were suppose to replace each of the two people in the hatch every 504 days, that would be about every one and a half years. If they film was in the hatch in 1970 and they replace the people in the hatch on schedule, that would be 35 years, or roughly 20 viewings. If the replacements were staggered and they were not both seeing it for the first time at the SAME time, then it would be 40 viewings. This could account for wear on the film. Also, I believe that type of film would just plain degrade over time. All of this could account for the poor quality.

But I am still wondering why it would be hidden and why Desmond would remember exactly where it was hidden, unless he is trying to avoid watching it again.

I got to thinking about how the else the Dharma group could leave a message for the "hatchies". I noticed a reel-to-reel tape deck above the turntable. Unlike the many records available for the turntable, I see only the reels on the deck plus one box that could hold a reel to the right of the deck. There is also a reel sitting on the shelf in front of the deck, but I can't see if it is empty or full. It will be interesting to see if anyone turns on that tape deck. If they do, I wonder if we will have more "oldies" or another message.

I think I need to go watch it again. :)

oops see that there is another thread about the hidden film here: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21314

has anyone been able to find a video on the hanso website? if you goto the address below there is a video placeholder gif, but wheres the video??
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/

Hey Everyone
My first post ...just been enjoying all of your commentary so far .. but after last night I had to post!
The man in the filmstrip did say that this station was the 3rd station or swan station.
He also said "in this sector of the island" so you've got to figure that the rest of the stations are located in different sectors of the same island.
Stations / Projects
Life Extension
Electromagnetic Research
Quest for Extra-Ter. Intelligence
Mathematical Forecasting
Cryogenics
Eugenics
Remote Viewing
but that's 7 projects and the filmstrip says that the swan station is 3 of 6?
so where's number 7?
anyways just wanted to post and I will take a look at the episode again to see what else I can find ... thx


Maybe Walt or Locke are one of the seven projects?

flora said:


Hope I am not derailing the thread but this peaked my interest as well.
Desmond knows right where the orientation film is. It is hidden behind a book. Why hide an orientation film? Seems kind of like the dieter who hides the candy. They can’t have it out in plain sight because it will be too tempting. Is Desmond obsessed with this film? Is it looking worn out and possibly repaired because he has watched it so often?

I think it had just been watched many, many times over the years by different people. Though it had probably been awhile since Desmond himself watched it. In the meantime he did catch up on reading and for that reason the film got "buried" on the bookshelf behind "TotS". I don't think it was hidden per se, just buried.

That's interesting too. But then how did flight 815 crash? Was it maybe towards the end of the count down? Does the magnet get stronger as it counts down the minutes, so pushing the button resets it? And if the button isn't pushed it goes on at full strength?

Desmond missed a button push... and the magnet came on, making the plane crash... which in turn, is why desmond asked Locke last week "And is everyone still out there ?(theworld)"

another point in this thought of mine, is that "Kelvin" or "Calvin" also decided to say 'the hell with it' and dipped out of the hatch... the timer wound down, and the magnet forced Desmond's boat into the reef... and that's when Kelvin found Desmond...


Again, all totally my own opinion... just what i'm leaning towards at this point...

It was mentioned earlier in this thread and I totally agree: I don't think it's very likely that Desmond has ever missed a button push. If he had he would have known that it wouldn't kill him and he wouldn't be so terrified of missing one this time around.

Meanwhile, and perhaps this is reaching a bit, but was that the Oceanic air logo on the bookshelf behind the founder woman?

It was mentioned earlier in this thread and I totally agree: I don't think it's very likely that Desmond has ever missed a button push. If he had he would have known that it wouldn't kill him and he wouldn't be so terrified of missing one this time around.

Meanwhile, and perhaps this is reaching a bit, but was that the Oceanic air logo on the bookshelf behind the founder woman?
Actually, I think it is possible. If he fell asleep unexpectedly, the timer might have restarted itself as part of a psychological experiment. If he woke up suddenly down there thinking he'd only been asleep a few moments, then he might have missed a cycle.

quote:
Meanwhile, and perhaps this is reaching a bit, but was that the Oceanic air logo on the bookshelf behind the founder woman?

I totally saw that too...haven't re-watched yet, though.

did anyone catch when locke was sitting in from of his father's house and his father got in the car. they had a brief conversation and Locke asked him why? his father said that he's a con man and he's conned many people in his life. did anyone make the connection that he may be the real "Sawyer"? the guy that Sawyer is looking for.

That was my first thought too.

Crap! I have to get back to work, but this thread is so good. :(

Just want to add one thing about the magnetic abnormalities in the north sector of the island: Remember when Sayid said, last season, when studying the compass, "Well, I know where north should be."? I thought at the time, okay, there must be something throwing off the normal magnetic forces on the island. At the time--not knowing that "the black rock" was the name of a ship (weird name for a boat, but I digress)--I thought maybe that the "black rock" was somehow magnitized all wack-like. But anyway, ever since the compass was not pointing true, I had a feeling that something was off with the magnetic forces on this island. So it seems that that some of the "orientation" filmstrip, at least, is true (like the polar bear part *lol*). As far as the necessity of pushing the button every 108 minutes goes, though, I think that is probably a social experiment...OR--and I don't think this possibility has been mentioned yet--could it be that it is not really a social experiment but just a way of keeping people down in that hatch and basically guarding the "Swan Station", without them really realizing that they have been drafted into such servitude?

I don't think it was hidden per se, just buried.

Mmm... I don't think so. I believe it was deliberately placed there because Desmond knew exactly where it was. If "buried", he'd be like, "It's in that bookshelf over there, dig around until you find it." KWIM?

216 = 108 x 2
Something else concerning 216. It is also the product of 6x6x6. A potential number of the Beast reference...

What does the button do?

I doubt that if Desmond doesn't punch in the code that nothing will happen. Something has to happen. I don't think it causes planes or ships to crash, unless you guys mean that it controls the electromagnetism already present on the island; not that it was created. It has to be more than that because why would Desmond and the Dharma people want to crash planes and ships if it's only to make them press execute on a computer. The button has to do more than that!

What does the button do?

I doubt that if Desmond doesn't punch in the code that nothing will happen. Something has to happen. I don't think it causes planes or ships to crash, unless you guys mean that it controls the electromagnetism already present on the island; not that it was created. It has to be more than that because why would Desmond and the Dharma people want to crash planes and ships if it's only to make them press execute on a computer. The button has to do more than that!


It's an experiment in operant conditioning... http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21328

Or that's my belief as it ties in with BF Skinner as he coined the term and engaged in operant conditioning experiments.

The two kinds of reinforcement include positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement occurs when a behavior (response) is followed by a pleasant stimulus that rewards it. In the Skinner box experiment, positive reinforcement is the rat pressing a lever and receiving a food reward. Negative reinforcement occurs when a behavior (response) is followed by an unpleasant stimulus being removed. In the Skinner box experiment, negative reinforcement is a loud noise continuously sounding inside the rat's cage until it presses the lever, when the noise ceases. In both kinds of reinforcement, the response or behavior is increased.

It's an experiment in operant conditioning... http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21328

Or that's my belief as it ties in with BF Skinner as he coined the term and engaged in operant conditioning experiments.

The two kinds of reinforcement include positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement occurs when a behavior (response) is followed by a pleasant stimulus that rewards it. In the Skinner box experiment, positive reinforcement is the rat pressing a lever and receiving a food reward. Negative reinforcement occurs when a behavior (response) is followed by an unpleasant stimulus being removed. In the Skinner box experiment, negative reinforcement is a loud noise continuously sounding inside the rat's cage until it presses the lever, when the noise ceases. In both kinds of reinforcement, the response or behavior is increased.

It brings me back to my days in undergrad psychology. :)

I just think a lot of people "follow" Jack and feel that it doesn't do anything. (if you don't press the button)

The button doesn't have to do anything, not if this is all just a psychological experiment. Being told the button will do something will make you push it, but why? Because someone told you so? So how long will someone push a button if someone who is an authority figure has told them to do so? Will they continue to push the button if the human race relies on it? Will they continue to push the button if someone is being hurt? Obedience to authority is one of the classic areas of research among psychology. Milgram's Experiment, Stanford Prison Experiment are just a couple of studies.

I just don't like this idea of it only being a psych. experiment. If it turns out that way, I'll be very disappointed!

The Hatch/button may be a psychological experiment, but that doesn't mean that anythingelse on the island is. There are (or were) many more experiments going on as well. Plus, I think the Island itself hold mysteries beyond the Dharma Initiative.

http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dharma0224fd.jpg

Is it just me or does this seem to anyone else like the begining stages of the development of "The Monster" on the island? Im mainly thinking of the black smoke thing that is flying around. Maybe they found a way to control it with magnatism...

http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dharma0224fd.jpg

Is it just me or does this seem to anyone else like the begining stages of the development of "The Monster" on the island? Im mainly thinking of the black smoke thing that is flying around. Maybe they found a way to control it with magnatism...

Not a bad idea! I looked at that picture myself and thought it was a little odd that the guy was looking at something that looked like jumbled up audio casette tape. :/

This board is beginning to look as though it's separating into two camps. The "Jacks" and the "Johns". Many think the button won't do anything, others think the button must have more significance than just a psychological/science experiement. Interesting...

Much has reveiled about what the island is/was for however we can't lose sight of the spiritual/mystical aspect of the island. The island's secrets have not all been explained.

Loved when Locke told Jack they would have to watch the film again! Especially since I was thinking about rewatching the episode at the moment he said it.

-NotPurgatory

Yep, I immediately thought of all the people out there in TV-land who rewatch episodes while their spouses think they are crazy.

One thing that is more mystical than scientific is that Shannon of all people got a cryptic message from "Walt" not to push the button (im guessing the exicute button)

This board is beginning to look as though it's separating into two camps. The "Jacks" and the "Johns". Many think the button won't do anything, others think the button must have more significance than just a psychological/science experiement. Interesting...
Well, I'm more of a Jack than a John on this one issue, as I don't feel that the world will come to an end or even that anything catastrophic will happen if the button is not pushed every 108 minutes. I think it is either: 1. a psychological/sociological experiment; 2. a way to manipulate people into staying in the "Swan Station" and defacto guarding it without telling them that is what they are doing; or 3. that something will happen if the button isn't pushed, but it isn't what any of us would think of at this stage in the series, ya know? Like maybe something GOOD would happen that would free the island of this weirdness. Remember that some have speculated that it sounded like Walt said "Don't push the button, the button is bad"...so, maybe something GOOD would happen if it were not pushed? Personally, while I'm typically in the Locke camp on any given issue, I gotta go with Jack on this one...yet he ended up pushing the dang thing *LOL*!!!!!

I'm wondering about the Skinner thing. Desmond said he crashed and got ashore somehow, that Calvin came running out of the jungle and dragged him to the hatch, where they pushed the button together for a while before Calvin died. He didn't know Calvin before? So Calvin felt a real sense of urgency to take some bedraggled boatwreck dude to push the button with him, to round out his team?
My guess is that the electromagnetic hoo-ha makes ships and planes crash there, and the Skinner thesis makes the hatch person or people go and recruit survivors to keep the button-pushing going. I have no idea about further purposes of the button, but this makes sense to me.

Calvin is left to push the button all by himself, but just happens to be on the exact same part of the beach when Desmond comes ashore? I find that a little hard to believe. Calvin somehow knew or saw Desmond floating off shore. Maybe a camera on that shark or maybe it's a mechanical shark......part of the security system.

Well, I'm more of a Jack than a John on this one issue, as I don't feel that the world will come to an end or even that anything catastrophic will happen if the button is not pushed every 108 minutes. I think it is either a psychological/sociological experiment, a way to manipulate people into staying in the "Swan Station" and defacto gaurding it without telling them that is what they are doing, or that something will happen if the button isn't pushed, but it isn't what any of us would think of at this stage in the series, ya know? Like maybe something GOOD would happen that would free the island of this weirdness. Remember that some have speculated that what it sounded like Walt said "Don't push the button, the button is bad"...maybe something GOOD would happen if it were not pushed? Personally, while I'm typically in the Locke camp on any given issue, I gotta go with Jack on this one...yet he ended up pushing the dang thing *LOL*!!!!!

No, no, no, you don't understand! The fate of the world has been left in the hands (finger?) of Desmond the around-the-world-solar-racer!

Come on people! Obviously pushing the button doesn't save the friggin' world. Sheesh, the "experiment" is being played out in the homes of TV viewers now. "Honey, would YOU push the button?"

Originally Posted by dingbat: "I'm wondering about the Skinner thing. Desmond said he crashed and got ashore somehow, that Calvin came running out of the jungle and dragged him to the hatch, where they pushed the button together for a while before Calvin died. He didn't know Calvin before?"

So many things about Desmond's story do NOT add up:

Where's he getting all his modern equipment such as his exercise bike, etc., and his newer-type dishwashing soap from? What is he injecting himself with on a regular basis and why? How does he have all those clothes and a picture of himself with a girl down there? Did he have that all on his "race around the world"? And finally, if he really believed the world was about to end, why stop and grill Jack so much about "What happened to the girl, then?" Would he really CARE about that at that moment, or would he want to continue running away from "Swan Station"? No, something is off. Plus his own girlfriend in the picture looked like Jack's Sarah, didn't she? Something is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. I want to believe Desmond because his reactions all seem so honest and very genuine...yet...nope, something is off.

One thing that is more mystical than scientific is that Shannon of all people got a cryptic message from "Walt" not to push the button (im guessing the exicute button)


Maybe there was really no incident, and pushing the button really is bad. Maybe that is part of what brings more "recruits" to the island. The island seems to have it's own electromagnetic preperties as the narator said, but are they strong enough to bring down a plane? Maybe part of the experimentation is to harness and intensify the electromagnetism so it can be used to draw in larger objects from farther away....like 1000miles away.

Did anyone notice when you move your cursor below the last active project on the HansoFoundation website, it shows Dharma Initiative? Has anyone figured out how to access any of the projects? Thanks!:drowsy:

So many things about Desmond's story do NOT add up:

Where's he getting all his dishwashing soap and modern equipment such as his exercise bike, etc., from? What is he injecting himself with on a regular basis and why? How does he have all those clothes and a picture of himself with a girl down there? Did he have that all on his "race around the world"? And finally, if he really believed the world was about to end, why stop and grill Jack so much about "What happened to the girl, then?" Would he really CARE about that at that moment, or would he want to continue running away from "Swan Station"? No, something is off. Plus his own girlfriend in the picture looked like Jack's Sarah, didn't she? Something is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. I want to believe Desmond because his reactions all seem so honest and very genuine...yet...nope, something is off.

Exactly my thoughts! He wouldn't have a framed picture in his race.. nor would he have a lot of clothes! he would want his pack as light as possible. And about this "race around the world" .. wouldn't the racers have to be flown a long ways to get to the island? Its seems pointless to go there for this huge race...

Maybe there was really no incident, and pushing the button really is bad. Maybe that is part of what brings more "recruits" to the island. The island seems to have it's own electromagnetic preperties as the narator said, but are they strong enough to bring down a plane? Maybe part of the experimentation is to harness and intensify the electromagnetism so it can be used to draw in larger objects from farther away....like 1000miles away.

Speaking of this electromagnetic properties thing, what was it Desmond said about it? I didn't really catch it all ... I think he said "Everytime I walk by it , I feel......"

Maybe there was really no incident, and pushing the button really is bad. Maybe that is part of what brings more "recruits" to the island. The island seems to have it's own electromagnetic preperties as the narator said, but are they strong enough to bring down a plane? Maybe part of the experimentation is to harness and intensify the electromagnetism so it can be used to draw in larger objects from farther away....like 1000miles away.


Maybe all that is "bad" about the button is that it causes the experiment to continue.


Yeah...and if they just let the button go without being pushed, a magically door will appear and the Lostaways will all step through it into...LAX! That's it! The "Island" is really in an abandoned hangar in LAX and 815 really arrived! Or not...I'm getting goofy from low blood sugar. Just ignore me. :kiss:

Speaking of this electromagnetic properties thing, what was it Desmond said about it? I didn't really catch it all ... I think he said "Everytime I walk by it , I feel......"


I actually didn't catch that one either....I have to go back and rewatch that part tonight....although I'm sure someone here already knows what he said.

I think he said, "I feel my fillings hum."

I think he said, "Every time I walk past it, my fillings hurt," as in teeth.

If we are talking about life extension projects, couldn't this project lend credence to a "purgatory theory?" I'm a noob, I know. And I'm sure that this has been brought up already, I just haven't come across it.

Pugatorio in Italian is synonymous to "Lost" correct.

I know that I might be showing my noob colors, but couldn't this project be a door opening project of sorts? You, know between this world and the next, or some other? And could it have become one to keep the other world out?

I don't think it is so paranormal, but they DID mention parapsycology, and death is extremely prevalent, right?

[BTW a buddy of mine built the sets for the first season and mentioned that the writers and designers made lots of hints in the direction of certain things of this nature concerning the design of the hatch, etc. . . sorry, but I'd rather not get him or myself into any trouble by saying more. As I get more comfortable, and speak with him about it this weekend, I'll divulge more.]

Am I making a ******* of myself, or is any of this on board?

Maybe all that is "bad" about the button is that it causes the experiment to continue.


Yeah...and if they just let the button go without being pushed, a magically door will appear and the Lostaways will all step through it into...LAX! That's it! The "Island" is really in an abandoned hangar in LAX and 815 really arrived! Or not...I'm getting goofy from low blood sugar. Just ignore me. :kiss:


That could be what Walt meant in his backwards message. Just don't push it and they can all go home....or something like that. :confused:

I think he said, "I feel my fillings hum."


Thanks Karen :smile:

I knew someone was paying attention.

That could be what Walt meant in his backwards message. Just don't push it and they can all go home....or something like that. :confused:

Exactly...only you said it more clearly and without the extra sarcasm!

Exactly...only you said it more clearly and without the extra sarcasm!


I liked the sarcasm myself..

As to Walt's message, you can download it here, http://www.lostlinks1.net/audiovideo.htm and listen to it as often as you like. I have done so and what I hear is, " Press the button. No button is bad." Not a contradiction but I take that as NOT to push the button is bad.

That could be what Walt meant in his backwards message. Just don't push it and they can all go home....or something like that. :confused:

This is a good one. Perhaps there is a mechanism that is creating all of these situations -- including drawing them all in. Which would explain the cagy nature of the strip and the need for secrecy between the various stations. . .

Perhaps it's one of those things that was set in motion and forgotten about . . .

But this island has been important since long before the 1970's as the Blackrock and Hurley's crazy buddy's partner's stories stand as testament. . .

As to Walt's message, you can download it here, http://www.lostlinks1.net/audiovideo.htm and listen to it as often as you like. I have done so and what I hear is, " Press the button. No button is bad." Not a contradiction but I take that as NOT to push the button is bad.


Hard to tell...I can totally understand people hearing both versions. I haven't made up my mind which is "correct" myself.

I don't have much to add to this thread except to (sorta) refute the theory of The Hanso Foundation logo as a whacked out swastika. If you look at it from different angles (i.e. tilt your head in different directions), you can clearly see a "T", an "H", and an "F" all overlapping each other. T-H-F........The Hanso Foundation. Get it??:biggrin:

I have 3 different bmp's that clearly define this. If anyone has a website and would like to post them for me, send me a PM. Thanks!!!!


Witchy