LLL Observation List - Everybody Hates Hugo [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 07:33 AM

General Episode and Character Info -

Guy in the chicken suit/the Mini Mart guy who gave Hurley away... "It's him! It's him!"
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=24
Rose tells Hurley that he is the only person on the island that everybody likes / opposite of the eppy title.
Sawyer called Ana "hotlips"
Lying was mentioned a few times in this eppy. Hurley to his mom. Charlie accuses Hurley of lying to him continually.(he even says Hurley is lying to the baby)
When Charlie is complaining to Locke that he's tired of sitting at the kids table, and wants in on some of the secrets, I think Charlie says, "swanning off the black rock"...
Rose comments that she's not interested about what's in the hatch because it won't help get this laundry done. Hurley tells her it will.
Claire finds the messages in the bottle and asks Sun to decide what to do with it.
Hurley tells Rose that everyone is going to hate him.
Hurley's boss is named Randy. This is Lockes bosses name also.
Sayid refers to the (?) in his hand and says that it's good it's made of Titanium because it has little magnetic attraction.
When Shaft offers Sawyer to come out of the pit, Sawyer says he won't come out till he knows his friends are okay. Michael peeks down the hole and says, "So we're friends now" He then says Howdy boys.
Sawyer makes a funny that they can all sue Oceanic together.
Kate touched her bra an awful lot and even dropped it in front of Jack.
What was the t-shirt Charlie was wearing? *screencap*
Rose mentions that Bernard has a sweet tooth. A whole mouth of sweet teeth, and a comment re: any candy is candy???? In the end of the eppy we see her tuck an Apollo bar away for her hubby she knows is alive. She looks content, smiles and touches his wedding ring.
Sayid tells Jack he thinks it is a Geo-thermal generator behind the wall of concrete, and that he believes it is the hatch's power source.
Kate mentions the water in the shower smelled of sulphur.
Sun was happily gardening. Hurley steals garden gnomes.
Locke mentions having jobs he didn't like, but tells Hurley he still did them. He then tells Hurley that he doesn't get to quit.
Hurley snuck 2 extra pieces of dynamite from the A Team mission, hid them in a tree and retrieved them to blow up the hatch, but Rose caught him. Hurley says he's sorry..."but I can't let it happen again" When he sees it happening again, especially the parallel between his friend Johnny and Charlie, he takes charge and changes the outcome.
Hurley says to Rose, "You don't get it...mess it all up. We we're all fine before the potato chips..."
Hurley is concerned about "being in the middle of it" (must have been what happened before) and he tells Rose he doesn't know what to do.
Shannon gives Vincent a cookie and a kiss.
Jack and Kate eat off each others plates. Familiar
The eppy comes full circle and ends with Everybody Loving Hugo.
Sun buried the messages in the bottle. The past is gone....burying the past??? She didn't bury it very deep, and I have a feeling it will show up again.
Jack made a good decision by agreeing with Hurley's suggestion.Unsubtitled Translations - While in the pit, Jin asks Sawyer to try climbing out again. He places his hands in the position for Sawyer to stand on it. When Sawyer will have nothing to do with Jin's idea they sit for a bit, and then Jin makes some comments about Sawyers wound.

Flashback Cast
Johnny?

Hurley's co-worker and buddy is named Johnny?
While in the record store Johnny refers to Driveshaft as Suckshaft. The CD is in the one hit wonder section, or $2 each.
Johnny says that Randy is losing his brain in there.
Johnny says to Hurley, "Who needs money when you have good looks"
Johnny is wearing a Led Zep. t-shirt.
Hurley and Johnny steal garden gnomes to spell out the message CLUCK YOU on his bosses front lawn.
Johnny yells FREEDOM out the window after they both quit. (Bob Marley Redemption song)
Johnny calls Hurley HUGGY BEAR.
Johnny mentions places they could look for work. Pizza Bid....Gyrorama....
Johnny says while in the van, "...stay gold, pony boy, I'll drink to it"
When Johnny realizes that Hurley is the lotto winner, he looks mad/disappointed??Randy is Hurley's boss. While reaming Hurley, Randy says, "....made of money.....maybe you don't want to work here? Accentuating his lotto win.

Mary Jo is the lotto girl.

Starla is the girl employee from the record store that Hurley asks out on the date. Starla told Hurley that he is her rock....... Bees will stop making honey, flowers will die the whole damn thing will fall apart.
Hurley asks Starla out to a Tribadour (?) concert on Friday, but she says she can only make it Saturday.

Red Shirts & Supporting Cast - Ana Lucia, Libby, Shaft, Bernard *(guy by sign and lady in skirt????)*

Secrets - Charlie tells Locke that there are lots of secrets around here, and he's tired of sitting at the kids table.

When Jack sees Rose with Hurley, he asks who else Hurley told about the Hatch. (Was Jack remembering Arzt's comment on don't tell the fat guy anything?)

Visions, Hallucinations and Dreams - When Hurley has his daydream, he is eating a chocolate bar that looks like a Mars bar. (celestial reference?)

He also drinks from a milk carton that has a pik of a "missing Walt" on the side.

Character Info:
--> Employment history - Hurley works at a fast food chicken outlet called Mr. Clucks? Jin says in Hurleys dream, "Have a Cluckety Cluck Cluck day, Hugo" This could be their company saying.

Philosophy & History References - Hurley describes the hatch as looking like a WW11 bunker, but newer.

Literature, Film & TV References - Charlie calls the trek to the black rock, the "A Team" mission.

When the rafters arrive at the new hatch, Sawyer says, "Whaddya gonna do, Beam us up?" Star Trek

After Hurley gets a date, Johnny says he acted like "fabio"

Art, Graphic Art and Comics - Hurley is reading a comic book while eating drumsticks on the job.

Songs of Lost - Johnny in a Led Zepellin t-shirt.

Hurley invited Starla to see "The Hold Steady" http://www.theholdsteady.com/

Okay, HUGE PROBLEM with The Holy Steady playing at the Troubadour in this episode. Realistically, what is it in the flashback? 2003? Early 2004 - at the very LATEST. The Hold Steady didn't breakthrough until this year, 2005, with their album Separation Sunday. Hell, their first album was only released last year. They wouldn't be headlining the Troubadour.

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 07:41 AM

Weird Props and Recurring Imagery

--> Eyes - Sawyers wound looked like an eye.

Hurley's mother says she know that he is lying because he won't look her in the eye.

-->Peanut Butter - Hurley gives Charlie a jar of peanut butter to give to Claire.

--> Other - Dharma logo in Ana's hatch http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otherdharma7kn.jpg (Apollo station or radio tower?)

Parallel Plots & Recurring Themes

--> Broken Families - Hurley's mother seemed horrible and their relationship looked pretty rocky.

--> Character Parallels - Johnny and Charlie play the same role for Hurley. Best friend.

--> Recurring Phrases - Charlie said nutty when he was talking to Locke. To which Locke replied "It is what it is" AND Charlie asked Hurley for Peanut Butter...nutty, smooth etc.

Hurley says, "Everythings going to change", several times in the show, as his island experience is mirroring his flashback experience.

While arguing with his mother Hurley says that maybe he doesn't want to change his life. He says he likes his life.
Charlie calls Hurley mate. Then asks about peanut butter and when Hurley says no, Charlie turns on him and says, "I thought we we're friends? You've changed"
Hurley to Jack, "Why'd you tell Charlie? Now it's all gonna change"
Hurley asks Johnny to promise him that things won't change between them (this will never change)Jack asks Sayid what he thinks is going on. Sayid says the last time he saw concrete poured over everything, was Chernobyl / Jacks line re: computer that saved the world.

Sawyer suggests that Jin pee on his wound / Hurley asked Jin to pee on his foot after he stepped on a sea urchin. / While making his point to Rose, Hurley uses the example of giving something to Steve and then Charlie would be mad, but not at Steve, he would be pissed with him.

Hurley says OMG, OMG........like (??) did in the last show. I referred to it as an indication of belief, but it seems it might be a recurring phrase now? Claire mouths OMG, when Charlie hands her the peanut butter.

Numbers References

license plate on Johnny's van 1-(almost looks like an upside down "T")-E49984
I think I see a 4 on the needle arm. *I've asked for a cap*
16th week without a lottery winner.
Charlie says Hurley told him he was worth $150 million, but Hurley corrected him and said $156 million.
Hurley and Johnny(?) were looking through the $2 bin at the record store. You see a sign for one hit wonders, above the Driveshaft CD.
Randy tells Hurley he owes the company for an 8 piece dark meat combo.
Sayid says the wall is 8 to 10 feet thick.
Ana gives Sawyer 3 seconds to drop the rock.
There is an 8 on the gas pump where Hurley is discovered.
Michael tells Libby there are around 40 of them survived the crash, and Libby says there are 23 of us. We later see there are only 4-6 left?
Sawyer describes Rose as a black chick in her 50's.
Hurley says, "I'ts just 1 bottle, that's where it starts"
Randy tells Hurley that their policy is 2 napkins per customer.
Locke thinks the shifts for number punching should be 2 people for 6 hour shifts?
Hurley tells Jack there is enough food to feed 1 man 3 meals a day for about 3 months = 270 meals x 40 people = 10800

Fights - Ana hits Sawyer behind the right ear with a rock, because she only has 1 bullet. She later slugs him in the face due to his attitude.

Charlie disowns Hurley over the peanut butter incident.

Sickness/Injury - When Hurley feints after winning the lotto, his mother asks if it's his heart. Johnny asks Hurley if he's been acting weird because he's getting his stomache stapled.

Hygiene - Kate took a shower with Shampoo and soap? She told Jack he could use one too, he said maybe later.

Automobiles - Johnny and Hurley have a pimping van.

Goofs - How did the news people know Hurley had won? He still had his ticket (not cashed in yet?)

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 07:44 AM

Categories that I didn't find info for. Can you?

Character Connections

Character Info:
--> Symbolic tattoos, clothing or jewelry
--> Meaning of names
--> Birthdays / ages

Religious References

Weird Props and Recurring Imagery
--> Airplanes (toys and real)
--> Amputron 4200
--> Batteries
--> Boxes,
--> Bronze Cuckoo - Walt's little birdie
--> Butterflies & Moths
--> Compass
--> Creepy Dolls
-->Globes
-->Green Lantern Comic Book
-->Handcuffs
-->Lamps
-->Locke's Dog Whistle
-->Posters
-->Sawyer's Letter
-->Suspicious Pen Sightings
-->Tarot
-->Rain, Water, Death and Violence

Parallel Plots & Recurring Themes
--> Free Will vs. Fate
--> Reasons for Being on the Plane
--> Other

Games

Accidents

Misc. Symbolism

Major Lost Mysteries:
--> Monster / Security System
--> Polar Bear
--> Hatch
--> Whispers
--> Others
--> Black Rock

Misc. Unsolved Mysteries

People Puzzles:
--> Sceve: the Mystery of Scott and Steve
--> Walt's Special Powers?
-->Clues to Locke's Mysterious Condition
-->Clues to the Death of Dr. Christian Shephard

Character Travels & Island Exploration

Maps & Landmarks

Lost Timeline

Geography of Lost (Places They've Been or Mentioned)

Booze

Drugs

Sex

Food

Weapons

Fights

Bondage / Captivity

Island Technology / Inventions

The Morgue: Body Count and Funeral Rites

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 07:51 AM

I did a little research, and here is what MIGHT be considered a link between swans and magnetism.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...n&sbid=lc0 4a

the gist of it is that a guy named Dr. Joseph SWAN was one of the inventors of the electric light bulb, along with Edison. Electromagnetism was involved in the process.

It should be noted that both the swan and the arrow are constellations. The swan is Cygnus, and the arrow is Sagitta (which is where we get Sagittarius). Cygnus is also a known black hole.
Actually, there is a meaning to this and it is a good thing you pointed this out, because the LOST makers said at one point (when people were starting to use the numbers as coordinates for magnitute and longitude to locate the island) that people should be looking for the answer in the sky and not on the ground
The swan is also called the Northern Cross too, and part of the Summer Triangle.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin....html&edu=high

http://www.seds.org/Maps/Stars_en/Fig/cygnus.html

http://stardate.org/nightsky/constellations/cygnus.html

There are six constellations of Apollo
1. Cygnus = swan
2. Sagitta = arrow
3. Corvus = crow
4. Crater = goblet..........."Le Cratêre" on Danielle's maps?
5. Ophiuchus = serpent handler
6. Orion = the hunter

http://www.jburnell.com/Messier.html

M4 - the constellation Scorpius (scorpion- not familiar with this constellation)
M8 - Sagittarius (archer)
M15 - Pegasus (winged horse)
M16 - Serpens (serpent? not familiar with this one)
M23 - Sagittarius (archer)
M42 - Orion (hunter)
M108 - Ursa Major (bear)
M108 is a spiral galaxy in the constellation Ursa Major, which is the Big Bear.
These are all constellations that are associated with Apollo (the god of the sun) in Greek mythology.

For example, the cup (crater)

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/con...ns/crater.html

you'll find references to some of the other constellations in this write-up.
"In the story, Apollo needed water to prepare a libation. He sent the crow, who did odd jobs for him, to bring water back in a cup. "

Remember the black bird from the season finale? A large black bird doing an odd job?

The sign of Gemini (twins), which is the complementary opposite of Sagittarius in the zodiac.

At the heart of Sagittarian lore stands the centaur Chiron. As a centaur, Chiron personifies the very soul of Sagittarius. Here is a symbol of half man, half horse.

When you go out to look around our galaxy on these August evenings, Sagittarius will be low in the south, just east of Scorpius. Recalling that Scorpius resembles the letter "J," a fishhook, or a scorpion, Sagittarius is the bunch of stars to the left. Although its classical form is the centaur-archer, it is easiest to recognize its most prominent stars as a teakettle. The spout of the kettle is formed by a small triangle with one star at the bottom and a pair above. The lid is composed by another triangle of stars attached to the left upper lip of the spout. The handle of the teapot is four stars left of the bottom of the lid. The handle combined with the top of the lid and yet another star, higher and slightly left, forms a small perfect dipper, referred to as the "Milk Dipper of Sagittarius."

ends with a "T"

Famous Sagittarians:
Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Nostradamus, John Milton (English Poet: Paradise Lost), Beethoven, Jane Austin, Mark Twain, Charles De Gaulle, Walt Disney, Kirk Douglas, Jane Fonda, Tina Turner, Bruce Lee, Richard Pryor, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Steven Spielberg, Caroline Kennedy, John F. Kennedy Jr., Brad Pitt.

Winston Churchill:
"The empires of the future, are the empires of the mind."
"If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find we have lost the future."
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

http://www.geocities.com/astrologyconstellations/ophiuchus.htm
The link above is about Ophiuchus - which is apparently supposed to be part of the Zodiac, between Scorpius and Sagittarius. Very interesting stuff there. Just for grins, scroll down to the very bottom and see who copyrighted the article.

Ophiuchus is the god of doctors and medicine, where the medical symbol of the intertwined snakes comes from.

Also ... isn't it interesting that all of these constellations are among the 48 constellations listed by Ptolemy.

Andromeda | Aquarius | Aquila | Ara | Argo Navis | Aries | Auriga | Boötes | Cancer | Canis Major | Canis Minor | Capricornus | Cassiopeia | Centaurus | Cepheus | Cetus | Corona Australis | Corona Borealis | Corvus | Crater | Cygnus | Delphinus | Draco | Equuleus | Eridanus | Gemini | Hercules | Hydra | Leo | Lepus | Libra | Lupus | Lyra | Ophiuchus | Orion | Pegasus | Perseus | Pisces | Piscis Austrinus | Sagitta | Sagittarius | Scorpius | Serpens | Taurus | Triangulum | Ursa Major | Ursa Minor | Virgo

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 08:24 AM

http://www.uploadhouse.com/images/956180833needle.png no 4 on the needle arm

Sawyer had a look of guilt at the mention of Bernard's name.

Black/White Rose and Bernard

Walt on milk carton http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=10

PhillyGirl2873

10-13-2005, 09:22 AM

duckyislost

10-13-2005, 10:29 AM

This comes from an episode review on EW linked below.

"Rose hums every song she hears — and some she doesn't. Did she get inside Hurley's head to hear Slim Smith's 1973 reggae ditty ''My Conversation''? Do these psychic tendencies explain her conviction that her husband is alive? Speaking of psychic visions: That's Walt's face on the side of the milk carton in Hurley's dream. Now, Hurley doesn't know that Walt is missing; he has no idea what happened to the raft. Does his subconscious know something he doesn't? And what's Sun doing without her wedding ring on? (Of course, she's got it back on in the next cut — kind of a glaring continuity error for a show that prides itself on the details.)"
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,1116970_3_0_,00.html

Personally, I think Sun probably takes her ring off when she gardens.

Hurley's food fantasy -
He eats a candy bar, potato chips, cereal, milk, a steak dinner, an icecream sundae.
The guy in the chicken suit blinks in time with the beeping alarm and then says "Hurley" in Kate's voice. He doesn't know Walt is missing, yet in his dream Walt is on the milk carton.

Hygeine - Rose doing laundry on the beach, http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=121
Kate gets soap and shampoo from the pantry
Hurley wears a hair net when he works at Mr. Clucks

Hurley's bad luck didn't seem to start until after he claimed the money.
Did anyone in his flashback call him "Hurley" instead of Hugo ?

Sawyer calls Michael "Mikey" and Ana-Lucia "Rambina" (a female Rambo?)

The Troubadoor is a club in LA.

Secrets: Claire, Shannon, and Sun know about the message bottle, Sun burys it.

Religious: Statue of Virgin Mary behind Hurley's TV in Mom's house, also a cross on the wall? This stuff was probably spotted in Numbers. Hurley's mom goes on and on about maybe Jesus will fix Hurley's problems and that its probably him calling on the phone. (Free will versus fate - mom tells him to get off his butt and fix his own life)

Hurley's Job is to inventory the pantry and decide how to ration the food. recruits Rose.
Locke's job is to find people to take shifts pushing the button
Kate's job?
Jack and Sayid are further exploring the hatch. There are ventalation tunnels above, and crawlspace below the main living area.

The Hatch has double doors at the front entrance.
The station that the tail sectioners live in has a similar metal door. They have a secret knock 3 taps from the outside, 3 taps answer from the inside.

There is a small bit of the hatch mural on the left side of this shot, perhaps someone can find a better screencap of it. http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=129

duckyislost

10-13-2005, 11:37 AM

Hurley leaning on who’s blue car in Mr.Cluck’s parking lot? His mom was teasing him about maybe Jesus would give him a car, so he doesn't have one of his own and Johnny drives a van ? http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=203

Hurley is breathing into a paper bag, connection to Shannon’s Asthma.

Sign in the window : 10 pcs M---- C------ $10.99
Hard to tell, but is that the same 10 pcs Mixed Chicken deal for $20.99 on the sign behind Johnny in this shot? Continuity error?
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=188

Johnny’s Led Zeppelin T-shirt
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=358

CLUCK YOU
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=502

Johnny makes a comment in the record store about “somebody get a straightjacket”, he must be a very trusted friend or else he doesn’t know Hurley spent time in a mental institution.

creme

10-13-2005, 12:12 PM

Weird props: What's with all the gnomes? sp?
Info on Garden Gnomes:
Origin of Garden Gnomes (http://wwwjackbenimble.blogspot.com/2005/03/origin-of-garden-gnomes.html)

Gnome, greek origin "gignosko" means to learn, understand.

Here's a more mystical history Earth Education (http://www.eartheducation.org/eeanb-00prologue.asp)

I loved this scene. I'm betting it has less to do with gnome mythology and more to do with a joking reference to the Gnome Liberation front (http://internettrash.com/users/sprkythdvl/gnome.htm) - a real, if tongue in cheek, group of people who liberate gnomes from suburban garden slavery and either set them loose in the woods or send them on trips around the world.

Fun stuff.

adamh

10-13-2005, 01:04 PM

Both Bosses were named Randy but not played by the same actor. Randy the universal Bad Boss name. Hummmm I wonder who had a bad boss named Randy that they want to rub it in?

Nope. Sorry, but you are totally wrong. Check out: http://www.tv.com/billy-ray-gallion/person/50882/appearances.html

duckyislost

10-13-2005, 01:23 PM

Definitely the same Randy, Billy Ray Gallion is in the credits as Randy at the end of Walkabout and Everybody Hates Hugo. Just a different haircut.

PhillyGirl2873

10-13-2005, 01:30 PM

Goofs - How did the news people know Hurley had won? He still had his ticket (not cashed in yet?)

I don't think this is a goof. The lottery people have records of where the winning lottery tickets were sold from. The store that sells the winning lottery ticket also wins some money. I'm not sure how much. It probably changes from State to State and lotto to lotto. The news people probably learned where the winning lottery ticket was sold from and went to that store. The question is how did the guy that sold the ticket know it was Hurley that won? Most likely Hurley was a regular there and the guy remembered entering in Hurley's numbers. Not very likely, but the best explanantion so far.

creme

10-13-2005, 02:57 PM

There was a logo symbol on the wall inside the Tail Survivors' hatch, though the time I noticed was too fuzzy to make it out.

Here's a screencap:
http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otherdharma7kn.jpg

creme

10-13-2005, 03:11 PM

History reference:
Charlie mentions Nazi's when talking to Locke.

Chernobyl reference from Sayid re: concrete in hatch.

Religious Reference:
Jesus was on the phone with Hurley's mom Carmen. :lol2:
I know I've made tongue in cheek jokes about creating an LLL section for Jesus on the Rocks sightings, but it's looking more and more like we might actually have to add such a section ;)

creme

10-13-2005, 04:12 PM

Sun's wedding ring was apparently there / not there in different frames when she buried the Bottle of Messages. Unknown as of yet whether or not this is intentional.

***

Screencap of Mr. Cluck from Hurley's dream, the man is the attendant from the gas station:
http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x04-hugo/1/normal_hugo-cap031.jpg

>>>
Songs of Lost and T-shirts:

originally posted by Bubbles at the fuselage:
See http://www.spunoutonline.com/...0004131/ref/11

I also discovered this information about the tour-which may have no relevance at all

In 1977, Led Zeppelin embarked on another massive U.S. tour, again selling out up to five nights in cities like Chicago, Los Angelesand New York. (Seattle and Clevelandshows from this tour were the sources of bootleg albums prized by fans.) Following a show at the "Day on the Green" festival in Oakland, the news came that Robert Plant's son Karac had died from a stomach infection. The rest of the tour was cancelled, and malicious critics and superstitious fans whispered of a "curse" said to be related to Page's interest in the occult; such charges were scoffed at by the band.

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 04:21 PM

Recurring Phrases - Charlie said nutty when he was talking to Locke too. To which Locke replied "It is what it is" AND Charlie asked Hurley for Peanut Butter...nutty, smooth etc. Addition: Charlie called the French chick a "Nutter" and a "Loon".

Numbers References
Go to https://thehansofoundation.org

Go there. Copy and paste link shown, and, yes, go to that website.

Watch the flash animation a few times. Then, pause it when the red blip comes on the screen. Then zoom in. It reads "2FENO6".

Ladies and Gentleman, we now have a password(or some derivative thereof) for http://thedharmainitiative.org/.

What does 2FENO6 mean? http://lostpedia.com/wiki/2FENO6

the text # for F (as in Fe) is 3... the N=6 O=6, giving you 23 = 666 more ironic in the context than anything else...

Mrs. Reyes' conversation about Jesus coming and bringing him a girl and a car (and taking 200 lbs!!!).

Literature, Film & TV References 1. Dr. Strangelove; wherein the scientist tries to keep his arm immobile so as to not inadvertantly make the Nazi salute
2. Star Wars. I've always wondered about George Lucas's obsession with limb removal; Luke and Darth both lose hands, bad guys are constantly losing arms. I'm sure someone can list them more exhaustively than me. But with all the Star Wars references going around (and Star Wars is somewhat based on World War II) it seems particularly relevant...

Sickness/Injury - There is talk that Karen DeGroots' left hand is prosthetic or she's wearing a glove. *screencap please*

Recurring Phrases - Hurley says, "Everythings going to change", several times in the show, as his island experience is mirroring his flashback experience.

While arguing with his mother Hurley says that maybe he doesn't want to change his life. He says he likes his life.
Charlie calls Hurley mate. Then asks about peanut butter and when Hurley says no, Charlie turns on him and says, "I thought we we're friends? You've changed"
Hurley to Jack, "Why'd you tell Charlie? Now it's all gonna change"
Hurley asks Johnny to promise him that things won't change between them (this will never change) Addition: Locke tells Hurley that change is good.
Secrets - Hurley keeps it a secret he won the lottery.

Flashback Cast - Carmen is Hurley's mother.

Weird Props and Recurring Imagery
--> Amputron 4200 - Might make a reappearance for Sawyers infected arm.

Literature, Film & TV References - Ana-Lucia "Rambina" (a female Rambo?)

Johnny makes a comment in the record store about "somebody get a straightjacket", he must be a very trusted friend or else he doesn’t know Hurley spent time in a mental institution.

I missed this. Was this said?

Definitely the same Randy, Billy Ray Gallion is in the credits as Randy at the end of Walkabout and Everybody Hates Hugo. Just a different haircut.

Did Randy get fired from the box factory and then go to Mr. Clucks, or was this his job before the box factory?

creme

10-13-2005, 04:28 PM

Another screencap of Walt on the milk carton, thanks to sledgeweb:
http://lost.cubit.net/pics/waltMissing.jpg

Nicknames: Hurley's friend (Johnny) calls Driveshaft "Suck Shaft".

Sam G

10-13-2005, 04:36 PM

LostShiGal

10-13-2005, 04:38 PM

A quick note about the mention of the 6 constellations of APOLLO: if you remember the brand name of the candy bars in the hatch is APOLLO. :o Is there a link or just mere coincidence?

creme

10-13-2005, 04:46 PM

WIF,

I'm not getting the Dr. Strangelove reference.

Also, is the astrology stuff quoted above speculative or is there a direct link. (Sorry, I'm reading quickly).

ETA: Never mind on the astrolgy stuff. I just found the referent threads.
****
Nickname:
Charlie calls Claire "Little Mama" when talking to Hurley. Or was it "Little Mother?"

****
Steve mention: Hurley says his name in reference to potato chips (search transcripts).

PhillyGirl2873

10-13-2005, 04:52 PM

Creme, as far as Sun's wedding ring on/off is concerned...I read that someone said that she may have taken it off for gardening, etc. I haven't confirmed this. I forget what thread this info came from, but it was a reviewer on ET or EW? I think.

duckyislost

10-13-2005, 05:02 PM

contos

10-13-2005, 05:06 PM

I also noticed she had her ring on at the beginning of burying the bottle, but it was gone at the end.

creme

10-13-2005, 05:12 PM

RE: Hurley's name and how other Lostaways know it (i.e. Locke)
sledgeweb points out:
Hurley told Jack his name was HUGO when he mentions doing the Census... he says something like... we don't even know who everyone is, my name isn't even Hurley, it's Hugo. So, either Jack or Hurley has also told (off camera) other people that his name is Hugo. And, it would be Hugo on the manifest as well. (RBA)

****
If we don't already have it in the Lost Booze section, the messages were packed into a green wine bottle.

PhillyGirl2873

10-13-2005, 05:18 PM

I was the one speculating about Sun taking the ring off for gardening. I didn't actually notice it missing in the ep, I read about it in the EW review of the ep. Another poster has said it is there and not there alternately in the scene when she is burying the message bottle. So either she loses it there or its a continutity error. In any case, bears rewatching.

Yeah, sorry. It was probably your post I read. I would have credited you if I remembered who'd wrote it or where. Sorry.

On another note, I think someone let a spoiler out that said that Sun will be looking for her lost wedding ring in next weeks episode

It's not that significant a spoiler, but it irks be when people don't spolier font information.

Sam G

10-13-2005, 05:24 PM

Okay, HUGE PROBLEM with The Holy Steady playing at the Troubadour in this episode. Realistically, what is it in the flashback? 2003? Early 2004 - at the very LATEST. The Hold Steady didn't breakthrough until this year, 2005, with their album Separation Sunday. Hell, their first album was only released last year. They wouldn't be headlining the Troubadour.I went looking and The Hold Steady did play the Troubadour early 2004 promoting "almost Killed Me". They didn't headline they played with other groups.

Sam G

10-13-2005, 05:41 PM

I didn't taker notes last night, but thought you would be interested in this thread. http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=22353

Turns out Locke's boss Randy and Hurley's boss Randy are the same guy played by the same actor.http://lost.cubit.net/pics/randyvsrandy.jpg

You are so right and I'm so wrong. Same guy. Chicken shack was hit by a meteorite. Did Randy work at Locke's box company before or after EHH?

I also looked up sulpher smellling water. It seems a pretty common problem but I found this interesting.

"Sulpher repells everything.
Down here in the south many water sources contain sulpher. I grew up drinking well water with a sulpher content and I live just off of the Intracostal Waterway, a salt marsh and bug heaven. When you sweat your body excretes the sulpher. Bugs will not mess with you or at least not as many will mess with you. Ehrn friends would come over the bugs would tear into them and leave me alone. When they finally put in water lines to my nieghborhood the bugs lit me up!

So I did a little experiment. I started drinking the Sulper water again. Guess what. The bugs backed off again."

LostApril

10-13-2005, 06:37 PM

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/randyvsrandy.jpg

You are so right and I'm so wrong. Same guy. Chicken shack was hit by a meteorite. Did Randy work at Locke's box company before or after EHH?

From my take on things, the lotto incident was prior to Randy working at the box place. I only say that because Locke booked the trip and was talking about it in the break room. The things that were happening with Hurley right before the flight was long enough after his winning to allow him to add more value to his net worth..a time frame of at least 6 months IMO.

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 06:51 PM

shootfire I wasn't the least bit shocked that Rose's husband was white, but then it just solidified a pet theory of mine that Rose and Bernard are Susan's parent. Susan is obviously bi-racial, and I was kind of hoping that Rose and Bernard would turn out to be Walt's grandparents. Estrangement is pervasive in the storyline, and I think Susan was estranged from her parents, who have never seen or heard about Walt and Michael. I think that may very well be one of Rose's "sob stories."

Quote:

I don't think it is his inability to handle emotion b/c the look was more of a 'confused' look.

Perhaps Sawyer read a message that held a clue about that family relationship. Perhaps Rose and Bernard had been in OZ because of their daughter's death. He also knows that Walt's mother died in OZ. It's possible that Rose sent a message to Brian Porter. Who knows what he picked up from Michael and Walt in the conversations on the raft? Maybe he was just putting 2 and 2 together. He already made the connection between Jack and Christian.

Sickness/Injury - Is there a connection between phantom limb pain and Charlie's withdrawl from heroin?

Originally Posted by Drake

I really wonder if it was more than meets the eye because of the milk carton with Walt and Jin's bruise on his face. Hugo didn't know about either of those things yet they were in his dream. He's definatly got more restraint than I would have around all that food and not having anything for a long time.

Parallel Plots & Recurring Themes
--> Character Parallels - Ana Lucia was bonked on the head with a hard case like the Marshal, and may be his back up.

Numbers References
Chernobyl
(chĭrnō´byēl) , Ukr. Chornobyl, abandoned city, N Ukraine, near the Belarus border, on the Pripyat R. Ten miles (16 km) to the north, in the town of Pripyat, is the Chernobyl nuclear power station, site of the worst nuclear reactor disaster in history. On Apr. 25, 1986, during an unauthorized test of one of the plant's four reactors, engineers initiated an uncontrolled chain reaction in the core of the reactor after disabling emergency backup systems. On Apr. 26, an explosion ripped the top off the containment building, expelling radioactive material into the atmosphere; more was released in the subsequent fire. Only after Swedish instruments detected fallout from the explosion did Soviet authorities admit that an accident had occurred. The reactor core was sealed off by air-dropping a cement mixture, but not before eight tons of radioactive material had escaped.

Twenty firefighters died immediately from overexposure to radioactivity, while hundreds suffered from severe radiation sickness. Pripyat, Chernobyl, and nearby towns were evacuated. People who lived near the plant in Ukraine and Belarus at the time have seen a greatly increased incidence of thyroid cancer, and genetic mutations have been discovered in children later born to exposed parents. Ukraine has estimated that as many as 8,000 people died as a result of the accident and during its cleanup.

Yup. IMO Swan Hatch is a Nuke reactor and Sayid improperly called it a Geothermal generator. I think it is in fact a reactor. The hot pipes are for cooling and steam generation. A lot of people mistakenly believe that reactors generate electricity in som magical fashion. They infact just generage LOTS of steam which power generators.

This massive need for electricity feeds my theory that the Swan hatch is conducting some Philidelphia type experiments at this electromagnetically unique site. You need a big magnet and lots of juice, so this would make sense.

just a theory

Corsair Geothermal generator would make sense on a volcanic island, and once in place would require little human intervention. Seems like a nuclear reactor would need a staff of technicians to keep it running and not blow-up.

Randy at the chicken shack loses his job since the meteorite hits it...Hurley feels bad and gives his a job at his box company...where Locke works and feels he should have been promoted instead of having a young guy come in as a manager.....a jerk manager at that.

When Hurley starts to tell Charlie about the lottery in Numbers he says "about a year ago..." right before Danielle shoots at them.

Hurley didn't seem to know much about the box company, it was just an investment he had.

sier Creme - in the latest TV Guide Damon said that the date was never specified:

Exactly how long ago did an unfortunately coiffed Jack meet Desmond running in the stadium? Producers are loath to pinpoint dates on Lost. Could this be because time travel somehow plays a role in the show's mythology? After all, Sawyer was shown reading Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time last season. "It's important to note," Lindelof says, "that we've never said when the plane crashed. I think the assumption is that it happened in 2004 when the show premiered, but we've never said that. Everything [on the show] is measured in terms of PC and AC, pre-crash and after-crash. No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time." That's cool, but here's a tip for producers: No time is a good time for an unflattering 'do like Jack's.

Screenshot of this TV Guide question can be found here:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y30...vguide3TWO.jpg

But as we all know, verious references have been made to the time period (referring to the patriot act, the sox not winning the world series, etc).
What happend to the guy whose lower leg got cut off in the pilot, right after the crash? They mention him once after that, then never again?

Another in the list of the limbless. . .

The water is different from one pik to the other http://www.stud.ntnu.no/%7Ejonkjeti/Lost/Narvik2.jpg

Starla's necklace - http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=345

I think the flashbacks highighted his extreme fear of change, but made me only wonder where that fear comes from and wonder more what led him to the looney bin.

The interesting juxtaposition in this was how he handled those fears in the context of the non-decision he made about the lottery ticket as contrasted with his standing up to Jack and making a decision that he felt better served both him and the group. This feeds directly into the ongoing theme of Fate vs. Free Will.

To some extent, he may have felt at the mercy of Fate when he won the lottery. He recognized that he had power to change his future with the lottery spoils, but he also recognized and feared that he would not be able to control those changes. He knew that people would treat him differently, and we can gather enough about him too see that he's likely been treated differently for some time.

So he felt swept along in the lottery tide, which he increasingly believed was a tidal wave caused by the curse of the numbers. He felt completely out of control of his future.

In the simple act of standing up to Jack (after being bolstered by the spiritual guidance of the now extremely - some would say archetyped some would say stereotyped black female character) Hurley was able, for perhaps the first time since he quit his Cluckers job, to exert some small measure of control over his own future. And fortunately he did it in a much healthier and sane way than blowing up the food.

Originally Posted by gutsdozer

Here's your dream analysis...

For one thing, Hurley's hungry, AND he's been put in charge of the food. So it's logical he'd have a dream about eating it all.

But why Jin? Because Hurley associates Jin with being fed. Everytime Hurley and Jin have interacted so far, it's been about food.

Why the language? Hurley and Jin have a language barrier. No major thing there, just Hurley wishing he could talk to Jin in a way they both understand. That, or Hurley actually can speak Korean, which would be very interesting.

The chicken suit and Jin's "cluckety cluck cluck" line are just parallels of his real life, because as we've seen, he relates his job in the hatch to his job at the chicken place.

"Everything is going to change" is either foreshadowing, or just Hurley worrying that everyone is going to hate him now. Probably both.

"Falling down is not exercise"...Carmen's lines are almost as good as Hurley's!
Is Carmen where Hurley gets his sense of humor?

Joe Schmoe Just a general theory/question. How many people has Hurley mistakenly called them the wrong name? Or pronounced it wrong. And how many of them lived?

Scott/Steve, Ethan/Lance and Arzt

Was calling Ethan, Lance a clue to the Spear of Destiny?

Guy in the chicken suit http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chickensuit11co.jpg

Reporter at the gas station http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chickensuit20md.jpg

How did the tail-enders dig such a deep pit? Was it already there?

Creme, I will find the thread for the Dr. Strangelove entry.

duckyislost

10-13-2005, 07:31 PM

Just rewatched some scenes.

Here is the quote about the straightjacket: (When Hurley and Johnny approach the counter where Starla is working at the music store.There is a comics sign in red and white behind Johnny BTW.)
Starla: Hugo!
Hurley: Starla!
Starla: Why aren't you chuckleheads at work?
Johnny: We're currently exploring other opportunities
Starla: (to Hurley) You quit?
Hurley: (nods) I did.
Johnny: He's mixing it up today, he's off the rails, somebody get a straightjacket!
Hurley: (to Starla) Hey, can I try those headphones?
Starla: (hands him the headphones) You're my rock (bees honey, etc.)

Sun's wedding ring. In the scene where she burries the message bottle.
Ring is off digging the hole, then on holding the bottle, then off again covering the bottle over. Definitely a continuity error. Its off at the end of the scene suggesting she lost it in the hole.

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 07:33 PM

When Charlie mentioned Claire nursing was that a clue about lactating, the sickness, antibodies????

Sayid said, "The last time I HEARD OF" (I checked the tape).

If he was at Chernobyl, that's quite a backstory. He would have been 17.
The timeline isn't confirmed, but it can go in Sayid's character profile

LostApril

10-13-2005, 07:39 PM

When Charlie mentioned Claire nursing was that a clue about lactating, the sickness, antibodies????

As a nursing mother, it made my ears perk up but I have to say this....

Aaron is a frickin' GIANT!! So whatever Claire has got going on there must be super milk..LMAO! That and the "poor island baby" comment...too funny!

Antibodies would make a lot of sense. And here I was thinking that Charlie was just being snide to get some peanut butter...you know guilt trip style.

waltisfuture

10-13-2005, 09:11 PM

diabolo237 started this thread

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=22531

DHARMA might stand for..... Distributed Hydrodynamic Aerosol and Radiative Modeling Application

Hurley's boss: http://www.lost-media.com/modules.ph... m=748&pos=189 (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=189)

Locke's boss: http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/disp...lbum=4&pos=120

Who is Locke scheduling together for the 6 hour shifts?

cornerman718 I talked to Hold Steady booking agent, and he said the Hold Steady's first west coast show was February 2005, and the first time they played the Troubadour was this past June....
chuckb123 Oh yeah, well I know the writer of this episode and he said that the Troubadour was his favorite club and that's why he put it in there and that the LOST geeks should chill out with the nitpicking.
??????????????????

23 + 48 = 71 - ?? +1 = how many survived the plane crash??

lost_horizon

10-13-2005, 10:57 PM

Lost has two married couples that we know of. There may be other married but we haven't met them yet. You have Rose and Bernard and Jen and Sun. Rose in here hearts of hearts believes her husband to be alive and he is. She has no proof but just a gut feeling. She touches Bernards ring which she is wearing on a chain as a necklace. Sun believes something terrible has happened to her husband. She burries the message in a bottle. Did she even look at it and read what it said. Her husband is alive. Where is her gut feeling. Her husband is in danger but I think she fears something worse has happened to him.

Likelylost

10-13-2005, 11:15 PM

flora

10-14-2005, 01:13 AM

I lost my notes from last night! I suck~ oh well. Maybe I should say that I cluck instead?

Trying not to repeat anything said already.

Rose pocketed an Apollo candybar for Bernard (who shall forth be called "Sweet-teeth", a la Sawyer-style).

Kate snagged the shampoo. Good girl! (Btw- when I was in Iceland all the plumbing was water with a strong sulfur stench. Why was all the water in Iceland smelling like sulfur- because it's a VOLCANIC ISLAND and it's geothermically heated- everything there is. If you find a parallel between the sulfuric water of Iceland and the sulfuric water in the hatch of "Craphole Island", run with it if you want. Anyway, a shower in sulfur water is very nasty at first but you get used to it surprisingly fast. Icelanders had no idea that their water smelled weird at all! As a tangent to someone's mention of sulfur being anti-bacterial, anti-everything, MSN is a popular dietary suppliment containing sulfur that is used for skin, cartilage, and joints. Macrobiotics thinks of sulfur as being "yang" and a counter to overly "yin" diet, a good counter to sugar. But don't put that on the LLL...I'm just extrapolating on a point.)

Kate and Jack seemed awfully flirty during the "real food" handout scene. Particularly after he caught her in the shower that afternoon...Woo-Hoo! Hubba hubba!
(Sawyer and Ana-Lucia even had a very short "moment" when she wasn't whoopin' his beeeehind!)

Kate has the second shift after Hurley to push in the numbers.

Kate tries to remind Hurley of what the numbers were, but he informs her that he already knows.

In addition to "Rambina" and "Hot Lips", Sawyer also called Ana-Lucia another nickname in-between. It was rapid fire Sawyer nickname action. However I lost my notes and can't remember what it was. All I remember is I was trying to write down the nicknames when the famous "Have a cluckity cluck cluck day" line was said and I busted a gut and lost my concentration. I will take note of this when I rewatch the episode over the weekend.)

Does Shannon actually have a line in this episode? She just hands the bottle to Sun when Claire is trying to explain. It was touching to see her be so affectionate with Vincent.

Now...it's clear that the currents from where the raft blew up to the island were moving fast as Michael and Sawyer hit land by the next morning and Jin was already there. But why did the bottle wash up on the beach the next day- on the other side of the island? Is this another point in the "rotating island" theory?

Jin was the first to say (while voicing Hurley's thoughts in his dream) that "Everything is going to change". Hurley spoke Korean.

The "Chernobyl" reference was Sayid's reasoning for why all the concrete was poured in the hatch- surmising that perhaps there was a horrible toxic accident there at some time. (The "Incident"?)

The Dr. Strangelove reference really doesn't belong in the thread of this show, rather "Orientation"...but someone said it was Dr. Degroot...no...it was Dr. Candle (is that his name?),. the man who narrated the "Orientation" film. His arm did not move. But that still doesn't mean it's fake. Dr. Strangelove's arm is "dead" except that it has an overwhelming impluse to "heil" at the end. I think this is a tenuous relationship at best. Though if you want to make a connection between the nuclear catastrophe that was Chernobyl and the nuclear holocaust that occurs at the end of "Dr. Strangelove", that's a little better, as well as a better fit for this episode.

Charlie mentioning Claire nursing is simply a reference to Claire nursing. A cigar is still a cigar sometimes, ya know.

Hope/not taking away the hope of others: in the same vein of Locke believing in "hope", and Sayid telling the other survivors on the "source of the transmision" hike in the beginning of last season that they should lie (Kate's word) and not tell others about the French lady's 16 year old transmision because it is important not to take away anyone's hope, Sun buries the bottle without so much as discussing it with anyone. Why? Because she does not want to squash the hope of the other survivors. (Also perhaps because it is too much emotionally for her to process herself.) It does not seem as though either Claire nor Shannon will say anything about it either as they left it to Sun to decide what to do.

We never saw Jack ever telling anyone that Hurley's real name is Hugo. I was waiting for him to ask Locke where he came up with that...but he doesn't even flinch anymore when he is called Hugo. Heck, he even called himself "Hugo" to Rose in the hatch.

Rose's calming influence- got Hurley to like, totally, not blow up the hatch with dynamite...

Quality Hurley line: Dude, I quit.

Libby...in addition to Bernard, one of the "other" survivors to reach out and talk to our friends Jin, Michael, and Sawyer as people. My goodness, even "Shaft" softens up somewhat and asks Ana-Lucia not to beat on Sawyer so much.:D
*Does anyone remember a "Libby" reference- either from Sawyer's reading or from the Oceanic site? Lookup...

The "other" Survivors/Lostaways have a hatch of their own. Probably not as well stocked as they don't seem to be gorging on ho-hos or carrying 9 mms around. Evidently a different "station" of the Dharma Initative.

Sawyer is in a lot of pain> look at him run to catch up with the others as they travel through the bush to the hatch-hideout. Only Jin really expresses any concern for how he's doing, but it's clear that Sawyer is getting infected and needs to make his way back to Jack (and presumably whatever antibiotics or medicines may be found in the hatch) ASAP!

I still can't believe I lost my notes! I took notes, tore them out of the notebook- I have the notebook but can't find the notes! So sorry for my incoherence :redface: forgive me!

Sam G

10-14-2005, 02:24 PM

This was the song that was playing the the background when Hurley and Rose took inventory.

Up On The Roof
The Drifters

(Written by Gerry Goffin and Carole King)

When this old world starts getting me down
And people are just too much for me to face
I climb way up to the top of the stairs
And all my cares just drift right into space
On the roof, it's peaceful as can be
And there the world below can't bother me
Let me tell you now

When I come home feelin' tired and beat
I go up where the air is fresh and sweet (up on the roof)
I get away from the hustling crowd
And all that rat-race noise down in the street (up on the roof)
On the roof, the only place I know
Where you just have to wish to make it so
Let's go up on the roof (up on the roof)

brief instrumental-chiefly strings

At night the stars put on a show for free
And, darling, you can share it all with me

I keep a-tellin' you

Right smack dab in the middle of town
I've found a paradise that's trouble proof (up on the roof)
And if this world starts getting you down
There's room enough for two
Up on the roof (up on the roof)
Up on the roo-oo-oof (up on the roof)
Oh, come on, baby (up on the roof)
Oh, come on, honey (up on the roof)
FADE

Everything is all right (up on the roof)

Peaked at # 5 in 1963
Later covered as minor Top 100 singles by The Cryan' Shames in 1968 and by
Laura Nyro in 1970: by James Taylor as a slower-paced Top 30 pop version in
1979. Also covered as album tracks by co-songwriter Carole King in 1970 [Carole
King Writer CD] and by Neil Diamond in 1993 [Neil Diamond Up on the Roof CD].

creme

10-14-2005, 03:37 PM

Link to thread with list of music in this episode:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=22461

We need to locate chuckb123's original post on the "nitpicking" statement you quoted above and ask what the source is.

creme

10-14-2005, 04:02 PM

Add to "From the Horses Mouths" and use this info to amend any and all info we have posted regarding dates / timelines.

Ugh.

Creme - in the latest TV Guide Damon said that the date was never specified:

Exactly how long ago did an unfortunately coiffed Jack meet Desmond running in the stadium? Producers are loath to pinpoint dates on Lost. Could this be because time travel somehow plays a role in the show's mythology? After all, Sawyer was shown reading Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time last season. “It's important to note,” Lindelof says, “that we've never said when the plane crashed. I think the assumption is that it happened in 2004 when the show premiered, but we've never said that. Everything [on the show] is measured in terms of PC and AC, pre-crash and after-crash. No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time.” That's cool, but here's a tip for producers: No time is a good time for an unflattering 'do like Jack's.

Screenshot of this TV Guide question can be found here:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/CaliRoosterette/Losttvguide3TWO.jpg

scubagert

10-14-2005, 04:10 PM

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/randyvsrandy.jpg

I also looked up sulpher smellling water. It seems a pretty common problem but I found this interesting.

"Sulpher repells everything.
Down here in the south many water sources contain sulpher. I grew up drinking well water with a sulpher content and I live just off of the Intracostal Waterway, a salt marsh and bug heaven. When you sweat your body excretes the sulpher. Bugs will not mess with you or at least not as many will mess with you. Ehrn friends would come over the bugs would tear into them and leave me alone. When they finally put in water lines to my nieghborhood the bugs lit me up!

So I did a little experiment. I started drinking the Sulper water again. Guess what. The bugs backed off again."

Sulfur water is also very smelly. Almost like sewage. I have a house close to the intercoastal waterway (I wonder where you got this quote from), and there are sulfur mines close by. Before we got water lines put in and a filtration system, the water was very smelly.

creme

10-14-2005, 04:11 PM

The second mural? Or is this just another angle of the original mural?

http://img445.imageshack.us/my.php?image=door7zz.jpg

waltisfuture

10-14-2005, 04:12 PM

In the preview for EHH (after Orientation) the tail section Lostie woman in the skirt is wearing a surgical mask; the kind some people wear in public to ward off germs. Wasn't sure if I should post that here or somewhere else. Forgive me Waltisfuture if you already have that one.

The fact that you want to help is all that matters. If youall post something twice in good conscience..........let it go.........it's all good. It's a lot easier for Car to go through this thread for new stuff, then cruise the whole board. Any new entries anyone brings are gratefully appreciated. We can't find everything. I try to read every thread, but it's pretty daunting sometimes.

Ticket before Hurley passes out http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=82

Ticket after Hurley passes out http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=183

Holding the ticket in the van outside the gas station http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=539

Wierd thing about Randy is he looks like a business man at Mr. Clucks, and he looks like a kid when he plays Locke's boss.

Is this the first time we've seen Aaron in his crib?
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=610

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=611

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=612

What is the CD in the bottom left?
Among (Others?) http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=338

The Driveshaft CD is black and white with red all over

It also looks like they do small appliance repairs. Will this fit in somehow? Did Hurley learn stuff from Starla, that will come in handy on the island? I doubt he can out finagle Sayid, but you never know. It would be a great scene.

1977 on Johnny's t-shirt
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=339

Comics are sold in the music store. Is this where Hurley gets Walts' comic? What's on Starlas' shirt, and is that James Dean in the cutout?
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=346

Another shot of Starla's shirt http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=351

What's on Starla's neck? http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=348

Are these the headphones Hurley has on the island?
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=351

If they are, no wonder he was upset when his music stopped. It was his connection to Starla?

What's on the back of the redshirt? Can anyone make out the albums on the wall? http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=356

Redshirt again, but what is the CD on the bottom of the rack? Looks like the one that slightly pulled out in the Desmond/hatch scenes?

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=357

duckyislost

10-14-2005, 04:15 PM

I posted this in the TV guide article thread in spoilers, but since the timeline discussion is coming up here too. Unless something changed since Feb.05 when this interview was done, Damon is trying to have it both ways.

"The poetry of it is that the people on the island are still living in October 2004 and their perspective is not our perspective." –Damon Lindelof

Q & A: J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindelof, Lost Chronicles interview dated 2/16/05 [There is no direct link, the article is available as a PDF on Lostlinks. Magazine Scans Section: Lost-Chronicles – J.J. Abrams & Damon Lindelof Q & A – 2005]
http://www.lostlinks.net/

The quote is part of the response to this question:
Q: The character of Sayid, as a former member of Iraq's Republican Guard, seems to be the one character who sort of hooks into current events.

creme

10-14-2005, 04:21 PM

Thanks very much, ducky.

I have to admit that I'm a bit annoyed the lead creators themselves are putting out contradictory information on this very important point. It's one thing if a writer said something he shouldn't have, but this does look like a direct contradiction of The Horse's mouth.

So, perhaps for the purposes of the LLL we should save keep our times and dates as is, create on thread in "The Horses Mouths" section dedicated to statements on the Time/Date Origins issue, and link everything back to that so people can make up their own minds.

waltisfuture

10-14-2005, 04:32 PM

Sorry girls, I can't help with the timeline. It's my Achilles heel. That and the Int'l dateline get the best of me.

Hurley's doc http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=305&pos=316

Marvin Candle http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=201

Creme, this is the post I took it from. I guess the explanation of why it was posted would have helped.............DOH

Originally Posted by Todell
I wish these were my thoughts, but someone on another board noted that there are two movies that came to mind when looking at Marvin's damaged arm:
1. Dr. Strangelove; wherein the scientist tries to keep his arm immobile so as to not inadvertantly make the Nazi salute
2. Star Wars. I've always wondered about George Lucas's obsession with limb removal; Luke and Darth both lose hands, bad guys are constantly losing arms. I'm sure someone can list them more exhaustively than me. But with all the Star Wars references going around (and Star Wars is somewhat based on World War II) it seems particularly relevant...

scubagert

10-14-2005, 04:43 PM

Your second link (Marvin Candle) is wrong Walt.

Are you saying this is the same guy as Hurley's doc?

scubagert

10-14-2005, 05:57 PM

http://www.jburnell.com/Messier.html

The sign of Gemini (twins), which is the complementary opposite of Sagittarius in the zodiac.

At the heart of Sagittarian lore stands the centaur Chiron. As a centaur, Chiron personifies the very soul of Sagittarius. Here is a symbol of half man, half horse.

When you go out to look around our galaxy on these August evenings, Sagittarius will be low in the south, just east of Scorpius. Recalling that Scorpius resembles the letter "J," a fishhook, or a scorpion, Sagittarius is the bunch of stars to the left. Although its classical form is the centaur-archer, it is easiest to recognize its most prominent stars as a teakettle. The spout of the kettle is formed by a small triangle with one star at the bottom and a pair above. The lid is composed by another triangle of stars attached to the left upper lip of the spout. The handle of the teapot is four stars left of the bottom of the lid. The handle combined with the top of the lid and yet another star, higher and slightly left, forms a small perfect dipper, referred to as the "Milk Dipper of Sagittarius."

ends with a "T"

Famous Sagittarians:
Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Nostradamus, John Milton (English Poet: Paradise Lost), Beethoven, Jane Austin, Mark Twain, Charles De Gaulle, Walt Disney, Kirk Douglas, Jane Fonda, Tina Turner, Bruce Lee, Richard Pryor, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Steven Spielberg, Caroline Kennedy, John F. Kennedy Jr., Brad Pitt.

Winston Churchill:
"The empires of the future, are the empires of the mind."
"If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find we have lost the future."
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

More interesting info on Ophiuchus - http://www.hawastsoc.org/deepsky/oph/ (http://www.hawastsoc.org/deepsky/oph/) I copied this part from the above link. Thought it was meaningful : Ophiuchus is a large, obscure constellation hiding a number of gems. Typically depicted holding Serpens, the constellation represnts Esculapius, the Greek god of medicine. Son of Apollo and the nymph Coronis, Chiron, the centaur taught him. His skill at healing was legendary; he could even raise the dead.

waltisfuture

10-14-2005, 06:38 PM

scubagert, there are too many excellent clues to follow right now. Someone just turned me on to Alchemy, and I've bookmarked a ton to read tonight.

If your up to it, why don't you concentrate on this area.....astrology, swans, arrows etc and all the cool places it leads to. I can't keep up with all the new stuff and give it the time it needs. If you could watch those and post any new connections or interesting trivia, I will let your table be served first at the BBQ. :biggrin:

If that category doesn't thrill you, pick another one that you follow anyways. It's fairly easy to get all the new stuff the first few days, but when you get into speculation and theory it gets harder to keep up with. We want to give Car info that she can copy and add to the LLL, so she doesn't want speculation and theory, but sometimes those threads have excellent stuff that we would want on the LLL. Make sense?

Oh yeah. A few weeks ago someone led me to the Sagittarius clue, and I found the most interesting stuff, but very OUT THERE. I could research all day long. What am I talking about, I DO ALREADY. :blush:

PM and of us if your interested.

There is the theory that Dr. Marvin Candle and Hurley's doc are the same person. I forgot to add that. ooops

Another thought is that when a theory makes too much sense (even without hard proof) a synopsis of the topic is posted on the LLL. Anyone interested in writing up a short analysis or whatever the word is I'm looking for, with connections to sites for backup and piks etc., there is a good chance it will find it's way to somewhere on the LLL. Any takers?

This could just be an error on peeps TV's, but then again it might not be.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aarongstock/52140673/

This is possibly a TiVo MPEG decoding error.

I realized that there was a uniform unit on the Lost overlay image, a 2x1 "pixel." Once discovered, I counted 29 2x1 pixels across and 28 lines down. And so, I recreated an exact 145x140 (5x29 by 5x28, easier to make in MS Paint) replica of the overlay. There is possibly a 29th line, but the TV screen doesn't have one.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aarongstock/52064187/

cryptic overlay "image" from "Lost," Season 2, Episode 4

creme

10-14-2005, 07:23 PM

Gentle Reminder:

Please everybody just remember that the things included in the Long Lost List are fact-based observations from either the episodes or the those confirmed the the creators. Some fo the things on this week's list are verging into the realm of speculation/theory - which is all good and fine but which rarely makes the LLL except as the occasional mention as a "fascinating other fact".

car88win

10-14-2005, 07:43 PM

katgirl

10-14-2005, 08:12 PM

Hurley's Boss Randy at Chicken joint same exact Locke Boss Randy at Box Company - same guy!

Sam G

10-14-2005, 08:59 PM

"Exactly how long ago did an unfortunately coiffed Jack meet Desmond running in the stadium? Producers are loath to pinpoint dates on Lost. Could this be because time travel somehow plays a role in the show's mythology? After all, Sawyer was shown reading Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time last season. “It's important to note,” Lindelof says, “that we've never said when the plane crashed. I think the assumption is that it happened in 2004 when the show premiered, but we've never said that. Everything [on the show] is measured in terms of PC and AC, pre-crash and after-crash. No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time.” That's cool, but here's a tip for producers: No time is a good time for an unflattering 'do like Jack's."

Hum....Damon may have said that but I thought JJ said that the plane crashed the date of the episode. May have to do some searching.

Because we have pointed out calendars and posters that have dates that shouldn't be yet. Noticably Michael's in the hospital there is a 2000 OT poster and it by all accounts should be 1996.

car88win

10-14-2005, 10:08 PM

I've copied your post Sam - going to add that info to our timeline entries.

car88win

10-14-2005, 10:20 PM

We still need some observations on any weapons used or in someone's posession.

Also any references to places other than the Troubadoor in LA.

duckyislost

10-14-2005, 11:17 PM

shootfire

10-14-2005, 11:27 PM

Name meanings-
Libby is a diminutive of Elizabeth. (Beth?) The name means God's oath/promise.
Girl Baby Names - Elizabeth - Elizabeth, its origin, meaning and popularity (http://www.thenamemachine.com/baby-names-girls/Elizabeth.html)
Bernard is of German origin. It means "bold as a bear."
Bernard - Meaning, Origin of the Name Bernard - Baby Name Meanings (http://baby-names.adoption.com/search/Bernard.html)

Recurring phrases-

"You don't get to quit." Locke said it to Hurley. Margo said it to Jack.

car88win

10-15-2005, 09:00 AM

Thanks Shootfire. WIF good list you got going. Thanks for putting it all in one spot!

car88win

10-15-2005, 09:12 AM

car88win - I haven't seen a gnome count, since the shot of CLUCK YOU is in the dark and they are piled on top of each other I imagine it would be hard to get an accurate count. If I see one, I'll post it back here.

This is the thread about Dr. Marvin Candle being (Hurley's) Dr. Curtis
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21857
The parts are credited to different actors.
Dr. Curtis played by Dann Seki in Numbers.
Dr. Marvin Candle played by Marvin Candle in Orientation.

cerberus187 recognized Marvin Candle as the actor Francois Chau and posted some links to his background that have pictures.
Why the credit to Marvin Candle? No idea.

Personally, I don't see any reason to think they are the same guy. I don't really think they even look alike, other than they are both middle aged asian doctors.

Thanks for the count if you find or figure it out.:kiss: The Candle thing is that even the correct spelling? I thought it was Kandle? Now I'm getting messed up....no one's fault I just wonder if someone started using Kandle before it was verified....If the transcripts were up that would help too, but last I checked Thursday, it wasn't. I'll take this info and add it to the character connections - down at the bottom where we have same actor playing more than one role. Good job guys!

Sam G

10-15-2005, 11:29 AM

Thanks for the count if you find or figure it out.:kiss: The Candle thing is that even the correct spelling? I thought it was Kandle? Now I'm getting messed up....no one's fault I just wonder if someone started using Kandle before it was verified....If the transcripts were up that would help too, but last I checked Thursday, it wasn't. I'll take this info and add it to the character connections - down at the bottom where we have same actor playing more than one role. Good job guys!The transcripts are up for Orientation at Lost-theseries. They spell it Candle.

car88win

10-15-2005, 11:33 AM

Thanks! I think we'll have to check - we may have jumped on the spelling Kandle before the OR script was out. I see EHH is up finally too. I'll print that one out.

Sam G

10-15-2005, 12:07 PM

car88win

10-15-2005, 01:54 PM

I'd like to see if anyone can or has taken a look at the red shirt (I think it's a shirt) right next to the blonde everyone is having a fit over. screencap (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x04-hugo/4a/hugo-cap364.jpg)

Here is what is left to gather for this episode. I've included the information we have already so there is no duplicate work (no one spins there wheels). :)

Unsubtitled Translations

*Secrets: Claire, Shannon, and Sun know about the message bottle, Sun burys it.
* Johnny makes a comment in the record store about “somebody get a straightjacket”, he must be a very trusted friend or else he doesn’t know Hurley spent time in a mental institution.
* Hurley keeps it a secret he won the lottery.
Charlie tells Locke that there are lots of secrets around here, and he's tired of sitting at the kids table.

Symbolic tattoos, clothing or jewelry

Birthdays / ages

Philosophy & History References
*Charlie mentions Nazi's when talking to Locke.
Chernobyl reference from Sayid re: concrete in hatch.
Hurley describes the hatch as looking like a WW11 bunker, but newer.

Literature, Film & TV References
* When the rafters arrive at the new hatch, Sawyer says, "Whaddya gonna do, Beam us up?" Star Trek
*After Hurley gets a date, Johnny says he acted like "fabio"
*S.E. Hinton book, The Outsiders... "stay gold, Ponyboy." or something close to that. It refers to a poem called, "Nothing Gold Can Stay."
Charlie calls the trek to the black rock, the "A Team" mission.

Religious -Statue of Virgin Mary behind Hurley's TV in Mom's house, also a cross on the wall? This stuff was probably spotted in Numbers. Hurley's mom goes on and on about maybe Jesus will fix Hurley's problems and that its probably him calling on the phone. (Free will versus fate - mom tells him to get off his butt and fix his own life)
Hurley leaning on who’s blue car in Mr.Cluck’s parking lot? His mom was teasing him about maybe Jesus would give him a car.

Broken Families
Character Parallels
Free Will vs. Fate

Recurring Phrases
* Charlie said nutty when he was talking to Locke too. To which Locke replied "It is what it is" AND Charlie asked Hurley for Peanut Butter...nutty, smooth etc. Addition: Charlie called the French chick a "Nutter" and a "Loon".
*Hurley says, "Everythings going to change", several times in the show, as his island experience is mirroring his flashback experience. While arguing with his mother Hurley says that maybe he doesn't want to change his life. He says he likes his life.
*Charlie calls Hurley mate. Then asks about peanut butter and when Hurley says no, Charlie turns on him and says, "I thought we we're friends? You've changed"
*Hurley to Jack, "Why'd you tell Charlie? Now it's all gonna change"
*Hurley asks Johnny to promise him that things won't change between them (this will never change) Addition: Locke tells Hurley that change is good.
*Sawyer suggests that Jin pee on his wound / Hurley asked Jin to pee on his foot after he stepped on a sea urchin.
*You don't get to quit." Locke said it to Hurley. Margo said it to Jack.

Numbers References
I think I see a 4 on the needle arm. *I've asked for a cap*
16th week without a lottery winner.
Charlie says Hurley told him he was worth $150 million, but Hurley corrected him and said $156 million.
Hurley and Johnny(?) were looking through the $2 bin at the record store. You see a sign for one hit wonders, above the Driveshaft CD.
Randy tells Hurley he owes the company for an 8 piece dark meat combo.
Sayid says the wall is 8 to 10 feet thick.
Ana gives Sawyer 3 seconds to drop the rock.
There is an 8 on the gas pump where Hurley is discovered.
Michael tells Libby there are around 40 of them survived the crash, and Libby says there are 23 of us. We later see there are only 4-6 left?
Sawyer describes Rose as a black chick in her 50's.
Hurley says, "I'ts just 1 bottle, that's where it starts"
Randy tells Hurley that their policy is 2 napkins per customer.
Locke thinks the shifts for number punching should be 2 people for 6 hour shifts?
Hurley tells Jack there is enough food to feed 1 man 3 meals a day for about 3 months = 270 meals x 40 people = 10800

Games
Accidents
Misc. Symbolism

Hatch
The Hatch has double doors at the front entrance.
The station that the tail sectioners live in has a similar metal door. They have a secret knock 3 taps from the outside, 3 taps answer from the inside.
There is a small bit of the hatch mural on the left side when Hurley walks in with Rose.
There was a logo symbol on the wall inside the Tail Survivors' hatch.
Sayid tells Jack he thinks it is a Geo-thermal generator behind the wall of concrete, and that he believes it is the hatch's power source.
Kate mentions the water in the shower smelled of sulphur.

Whispers
Others
Black Rock
Misc. Unsolved Mysteries

Maps & Landmarks

Lost Timeline

Geography of Lost (Places They've Been or Mentioned)
*The Troubadoor is a club in LA

Weapons

Fights
* Ana hits Sawyer behind the right ear with a rock, because she only has 1 bullet. She later slugs him in the face due to his attitude.
* Charlie disowns Hurley over the peanut butter incident.

shootfire

10-16-2005, 12:43 AM

Ummm, I didn't even check the categories this time, but I think you guys can probably use this information. It would at least go along with weird props. Anyway, I just got excited when I figured this out. Someone may have figured it out already, but if they have I haven't heard it. I posted this update to a thread in the Michael subforum a few minutes ago.

7 candles on the cake = 7 years until Michael would be reunited with Walt !!!!

Timeline inconsistencies:
We know from Special that Walt was about 24 months old when Michael was hit by the car. (Actually he was 23 months, see Susan's italicized statement about the accident below.) Also, we learn that Walt is 10 years old at the time of the crash. In Adrift we learn that Michael hasn't seen Walt for 14 months. We know from the screencap in Adrift that Michael saw an attorney prior to 2001 about stopping Susan from moving to Rome. The WTC could be seen in the NY skyline. We know that Michael hasn't been Walt's "father" for 8 years. From IT, we know that Walt's birthday is Aug. 24. Michael was wearing a scarf and winter coat when he talked to Susan on the phone at the time of his accident. We know from Special that the card Michael drew while he was in the hospital was for Walt's 2nd birthday, because Susan didn't know about his accident. She stated that, when she hadn't heard from him in a month, she got worried and called Andy. That's how she learned about the accident. The cake that Michael drew on the card had 7 candles on it.

If Susan's attorney is accurate, that should make Walt 37 months old the last time Michael sees him prior to Susan's death. This fits Walt's age when you consider Michael's statement that he hasn't been Walt's father for 8 years. He had already been with Susan in Amsterdam for approximately a year (14 mos.) prior to the accident. That means that at the time of Michael's last meeting with Walt, it would be 7 years before he was reunited with his son. SPOOKY!

If anyone notices any glaring errors in my reporting, please let me know!

scubagert

10-16-2005, 09:26 AM

I know that ducky posted this earlier but it wasn't really acknowledged. It sounds like Rose is humming the reggae song that was in Hurley's dream.

car88win

10-16-2005, 10:19 AM

Right, that - Up On The Roof ? The Drifters....

Thanks shootfire - I know we have the 7 candle thing but as for figuring out the timeline, I wonder if sledgweb would be interested too. He's got a website where he's been figuring out the timeline items... http://lost.cubit.net/timeline.php

scubagert

10-16-2005, 11:09 AM

No, I think it's Slim Smith's 1973 reggae song ''My Conversation''. The Drifters song was later in the epi when they were doing inventory. "My Conversation" was in Hurley's dream and then it appears that its the same song that Rose is humming as she's doing laundry out on the beach.

car88win

10-16-2005, 11:34 AM

Oh, Thanks! Awesome. I found something interesting - the t-shirt Johnny is wearing the Led Zepplin one from 1977 - Jimmy Page was interested in the occult and showed particular interest for Aleister Crowley and I found this on him:
In response, Crowley created his own "philosophical system", Occult Sciences — a synthesis of various Eastern mystical systems (including Hinduism, Buddhism, Tantra, the predecessor to Western sex magick, Zoroastrianism and the many systems of Yoga) fused with the Western occult sciences of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the many reformed rituals of Freemasonry he later reformulated within the Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O). This system is founded in scientific skepticism. His undergraduate studies in chemistry helped forge the scientific skepticism which later culminated in the many-volumed and unparalleled occult publication, The Equinox.

Not that I have any clue, but I know this Dharma thing is big.

car88win

10-16-2005, 11:56 AM

Something else interesting: While checking out the song My Conversation, I read that the guy that worked with Slim Smith, was into the Rastafari Movement.

The Rastafari movement has spread throughout much of the world, largely through immigration and interest generated by reggae music—most notably, that of Bob Marley. By 2000, there were more than one million Rastafari worldwide. About five to ten percent of Jamaicans identify themselves as Rastafari.
http://www.answers.com/topic/rastafari-movement?method=6

creme

10-16-2005, 11:57 AM

In case this wasn't linked here already, here's a pic of the two Randys:
http://lost.cubit.net/pics/randyvsrandy.jpg

car88win

10-16-2005, 11:58 AM

Good, I'll add that to the Character Connections that was done.

Sam G

10-16-2005, 04:23 PM

car88win

10-16-2005, 04:29 PM

Sam G

10-16-2005, 04:40 PM

The only screencap I can find with anything is this one http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x14-special/special209.jpg is this what your referring to in the background the white "ball" of lights?Yeah, that's them on the HDTV site, that doesn't seem to working anymore, you could clearly see the were snowflakes.

car88win

10-16-2005, 04:46 PM

Cool, thanks. That could go in our Timeline entry. May help in the long run (maybe) (a big maybe)....Not sure what the deal is with the spaceship site. I've not played around here enough. Trying to work and have time to see what is out there on this board - just not happening.

shootfire

10-16-2005, 04:47 PM

The only screencap I can find with anything is this one http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x14-special/special209.jpg is this what your referring to in the background the white "ball" of lights?

Here's a hi-rez screencap.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/shootfire/ssnowflake.jpg

The screecap above is from Memorable Lost Screencaps Entries (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?keyword=Lost+Screencaps&user=voodoo_in_tx&sortby=des), thanx voodoo_in_tx!

car88win

10-16-2005, 04:50 PM

Well, that's just bizarre. I saw the one with the polar bears meeting with the red dot thing, but not sure what became of that if anything. There's suppose to be something also with the morse code at the top I think. There's probably a thread or 2 discussing it.

car88win

10-16-2005, 04:51 PM

wow, that's a BIG difference!

shootfire

10-16-2005, 04:59 PM

In some of the screencaps from Michael's accident you can see some snowflake lights up accross the street.

The odd think about it is that Walt should be actually 23 months old according to what we learned in Adrift. His birthday is in August, which would mean that Michael's conversation should be taking place in July. Between the winter coats and the snowflake lights, it makes the timeline really weird. There was another guy in the background of one of the Special screencaps in a winter coat with his hood on. It's not just Michael.

car88win

10-16-2005, 05:01 PM

Yea, the whole time thing is not for me though. I just gather the facts. :rolleyes: The when of it just drives me nuts. So I leave it to you all brainiacs to figure that out. (eventually) :biggrin:

Raven

10-16-2005, 06:51 PM

Here's more info on the book "The Outsiders" but first a note... You will hear reference to 'gangs'. This book is set in the 1960's. There were gangs then (and before... "Gangs of New York") but I think it would mistaken to take what we know or think about gangs today and apply them full strength to gangs of the 60's. The comparison works well enough for the main points of this book, but it still should be done with caution and foreknowledge of the differences.

from Hinton's web site: http://www.sehinton.com/books/outsiders.html

"Synopsis:
According to Ponyboy, there are two kinds of people in the world: greasers and socs. A soc (short for "social") has money, can get away with just about anything, and has an attitude longer than a limousine. A greaser, on the other hand, always lives on the outside and needs to watch his back. Ponyboy is a greaser, and he's always been proud of it, even willing to rumble against a gang of socs for the sake of his fellow greasers--until one terrible night when his friend Johnny kills a soc. The murder gets under Ponyboy's skin, causing his world to crumble and teaching him that pain feels the same whether a soc or a greaser."

The following contains spoilers for the book:

Johnny and Ponyboy hide out in an abandoned church after Johnny kills the soc. It's there that Ponyboy shares the Frost poem "Nothing Gold Can Stay" with Johnny.

Nature's first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leafs a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.

They discuss the significance of this poem on their life.

From Cliff Notes: http://education.yahoo.com/homework_help/cliffsnotes/the_outsiders/19.html

"Ponyboy recites a poem that he has memorized, Nothing Gold Can Stay, by Robert Frost. The fact that he has committed this poem to memory is another clue to his character’s depth. This poem symbolizes the death of his parents, the goodness of life with them, and the inevitability that all of life will change.

Reciting this poem to Johnny allows Pony to admit that there is still more to understand about not only himself but the world. The colors in the world around him help him see the contrasts present in the world—although sometimes overlooking them is easier. Ponyboy explains, “I liked my books and clouds and sunsets. Dally was so real he scared me.” Dally is as real as any sunset, but he is frightening and, therefore, safer for Ponyboy to overlook.

The poem Nothing Gold Can Stay creates another bond between Johnny and Ponyboy. Pony confides to Johnny that he couldn’t have recited that poem to any of the other gang members, except maybe his brother, Soda. Johnny understands and offers the conclusion that maybe the two of them are just different from the others; Pony disagrees and says that, no, maybe the rest of the gang are the ones who are different."

Later, the church catches fire and some school children on an picnic are caught inside. Johnny rescues them but is badly burned. Just before dying, he tells Ponyboy, "Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay Gold."

from Cliff Notes: http://education.yahoo.com/homework_help/cliffsnotes/the_outsiders/32.html

"Johnny’s dying wish for Pony was for him to “Stay gold.” Here, gold symbolizes idealism and goodness. Johnny knew that Pony was capable of accomplishing many goals, but most importantly he saw the good life that Pony had with his brothers. He wanted Pony to realize the importance of these gifts, especially having brothers who are truly family, while he still had them."

It's been a long time since I read this book, but my memory is that it deals with the concept of being an outsider of society by virtue of class or culture or clothes or education. Is one wedded to one's social group... is it written into our future... or can one break out of the constraints that group might present and find another way of living? Are class divisions fair? How are they enforced?

Most likely a coincidence... one section in the summaries and commentaries of the Cliff Notes is this

"Colors in a black and white world. This theme focuses on a teenager’s tendency to see only the extremes of an issue, not the gray areas. This idea underscores many issues that affect an adolescent’s life.

The third theme of colors in a black and white world is important in building the depth of the novel. Teens often see only two sides—black and white—of every issue. The author’s use of colors not only helps the characters begin to see the middle range, but also enables the reader to discover the many layers in this book. Describing Dally, Hinton alludes to the color range: “The shade of difference that separates a greaser from a hood wasn’t present in Dally.”"

It goes on with this analysis for awhile. http://education.yahoo.com/homework_help/cliffsnotes/the_outsiders/7.html