It was not Ana Lucia [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division

hoggle

11-10-2005, 09:24 AM

The screencap of the back shot is a bit misleading. If you watch the clip moving, you can clearly see the twine from the head of her weapon she has hangin from her belt as her arm moves. Also, her jacket/vest is bunched up the same way it does when she stands still. There are 2 other shots of her from that angle during the ep. One of the is just as they are walking up to the part of the cliff they had to haul Sawyer up. The second is when she first notices Cindy missing and walks towards the edge of that same cliff. You can go back watch those parts for reference on the jacket/weapon position/movement.

Also, the biggest detail, is that the black 'object' that most people are assuming is a gun right now, is flapping around slightly, like a piece of fabric... you can't see that in a still shot but it is as clear as Ethans corpse breathing when you watch the scene in motion.

alk31173

11-10-2005, 09:31 AM

If she was stabbed, do you think maybe it could have been Locke? He is the one on the island with knives. Do we have screencaps of him throwing the knives to see what hand he uses?

Michelle Friday

11-10-2005, 09:32 AM

It would be a possible story line to have it not be Ana; esp. with her supposed
back ground.

The others don't come with a thrashing of the underbrush and yelling "Walt"!
They creep in and are quiet and leave no footprints. However, I do think the
crazy others followed the tailies to the camp, looking for fresh abductees.
I fear for Aaron!!

Maybe someone didn't like the relationship between Shannon and Walt,
knew about it, and decided to eliminate Walt's contact. There are others,
then there are other others!

jessieslost

11-10-2005, 09:40 AM

I don't see that it looks like a stab wound, and I also see both of Ana's hands on the gun when she has it aimed. It could easily end up in her left hand when she puts it down. I don't see where the plot could go if it was an "other" who killed her. Jin and Michael both witnessed what happened. It be very easy for them to just tell Sayid what happened and the mystery's solved. They (Jin and Michael) have no ties to Ana Lucia, but they have a history of Sayid.

Nuj

11-10-2005, 09:57 AM

RE: the left hand thing--she clearly has weapons training, and even though I don't, it seems logical that after she fired she would transfer the gun to her non-dominant hand for safety reasons.

RE: the fabric thing--I'd have to watch it again, but it seems likely it's either a fake prop that wasn't supposed to flap or it's something on her body that is moving and looking like it's the weapon moving.

shma

11-10-2005, 09:59 AM

If they were together (witch i doubt), then we can rule out walt aswell. Since i believe Mikael would react abit different then that if AL shot at walt.
I dont think they even met eachother yet.
Sayid looks really pissed off, and looks like he is about to get up and kick someones ***. If it had been kate jack or someone he knew well he would said something or asked why. But apparently he just want to kick someones ***. This leads me to think its either desmond (shannon do look like his old girl, and in his current state... well who knows) or danielle.

:: Shannons wound (http://shma.250free.com/snapshot20051110144134.jpg) :: (click for pic)
This do not look like a gunshot, maybe if shot from behind... but i dont buy that.

:: AL's gun (http://shma.250free.com/snapshot20051110144652.jpg) ::
This is the gun, look at the barrel... not very long aye ?
compare to this... picture (http://shma.250free.com/snapshot20051110144653.jpg)
They dont look the same. maybe i can upload a avi with the seq in slowmo, however i dont think she is the shooter of shannon. However i do think she shot Cindy.

duck4444

11-10-2005, 10:00 AM

If she was stabbed, do you think maybe it could have been Locke? He is the one on the island with knives. Do we have screencaps of him throwing the knives to see what hand he uses?

You got to be kidding right?:confused:

Cassieeeee

11-10-2005, 10:03 AM

Interesting. I hadn't thought of this.
Though I guess Ana and the rest of her crew would know for sure, since they were all standing there...

shma

11-10-2005, 10:04 AM

I watched that very second 30 times now, its a knife / bayonett of some sort. Noway is the shannon killer holding a gun.

When AL threatens Sawyer in the pit, what hand is she holding the gun with ?

shma

11-10-2005, 10:10 AM

AL is righthanded, and her left arm dont look anything like the killers left arm, she's way to skinny.
AL righthanded (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x04-hugo/1a/hugo-cap068.jpg)

linda36d

11-10-2005, 10:24 AM

I believe Kate stabbed Shannon. Who wasnt on last night's show?

Sun- doesnt have a gun
Kate-has the knife locke gave her, which she used to break herself free in the hatch in the 1st ep
Jack-(except in the hospital flashback)
Desmond- he may have taken a weapon from the hatch, but he doent appear to be violent
Danielle- she's more of a gun person

I think it's Kate. Why, dont know.

FertilityHollis

11-10-2005, 10:32 AM

I don't believe Shannon was stabbed (if she was, it was probably by The Others in something similar to how we saw Goodwin)...however I don't believe Ana shot Shannon either.

I think it was Danielle. She may be watching the castaways to see if anyone gets "The Sickness". She sees Shannon go all nutso about something she "saw" and follows her into the woods and shoots her from far away.

I dunno though, I don't like to think about theories to much, I don't like to get attached to any one thing so I'm not dissapointed when it's not what I want. That said, I think this would be a fun scenario, unlikely, but fun.

Moriquenya

11-10-2005, 10:36 AM

Locked Up

11-10-2005, 10:39 AM

LOST_in_Translation

11-10-2005, 10:46 AM

I think I have to agree that it wasn't Ana who killed Shannon. All the rumors keep saying that

the true killer will be revealed. The way they left it, it looks like Ana killed Shannon and that would be too obvious and reveals the killer right away.

I agree. It would be too obvious.

Didn't the spoilers also say that somebody takes the blame and the real killer will be revealed later? I think Ana takes the blame - I don't know who the real killer is though.

It does look like a stab would from the pics you've all linked. I can't wait to find out!!!!

destroy_musick

11-10-2005, 10:49 AM

watching it again and again, i thought the flapping bit of fabric was from one of the many pieces of fabric that are holding some of her holsters and holders to her belt. If you look closely, you can just see the vines/dry vegetation she also uses for improv rope and string poking out from around her hand.

My money is still on AL.

The fact her gun shows a spent cartridge and one shot is heard as well as the fact AL looks horrified at the realisation that she shot an innocent person, just seems to add up.

shma

11-10-2005, 10:54 AM

http://shma.250free.com/killer1.jpg
http://shma.250free.com/killer2.jpg
http://shma.250free.com/killer3.jpg
http://shma.250free.com/killer4.jpg
http://shma.250free.com/killer5.jpg

that is no gun... something pokyweaponish... thats the technical term

destroy_musick

11-10-2005, 10:55 AM

never said there was a gun, its in her right hand. To me it seems like she just has a clenched fist and the way the shot is made, the fabric from one her improvised holsters is flapping about.

EDIT: Also, i can't see how it can still be a knife if its flapping about and pointing towards the ground when her fist is held straight like that

conspiricytheory

11-10-2005, 11:11 AM

I'm in agreement that it wasn't AL who killed Shannon. It seemed to convinent that Sayid would look up and AL would be there with the gun drawn. Nothing is ever as it seems in Lost. I'm thinking it was by chance that they ended up there right as Shannon was killed. Who killed her... too many options at this point to take an educated guess.

addicted2much

11-10-2005, 11:29 AM

bigmouth

11-10-2005, 11:49 AM

Cloud Nine: I completely agree. Shannon was not shot. She was stabbed.

lost_knight

11-10-2005, 11:50 AM

So is everyone expecting another point of view episode like Adrift, which showed Kate and Locke in the hatch. I still think Ana shot her, but it would be an awesome twist if someone else killed Shannon.

OK I will admit that you have placed doubt in my mind on who killed Shannon. I will have to rewatch this again, most of the screenshots are pretty dark, and I don't have time now to adjust them.

I actually liked the idea of AL killing Shannon on accident, nice bit of tension as the groups meet. But if it wasn't AL then who is it? Why would Sayid just sit there clutching Shannon with the killer standing there looking on?

After reviewg the screenshots I am more convinced that it was AL. The right hand left hand thing could just be an intentional continuity error used for framing the shot of Sayid and Shannon. There you see the two of them framed by the person/and weapon that killed her.

destroy_musick

11-10-2005, 12:00 PM

After reviewg the screenshots I am more convinced that it was AL. The right hand left hand thing could just be an intentional continuity error used for framing the shot of Sayid and Shannon. There you see the two of them framed by the person/and weapon that killed her.

I agree, i reckon the shot where people are seeing this knife is just a weird shot or continuity errors.

I prefer the idea that it was AL who shot her, adding to tensions right away rather than some other killer, which is just more questions than need be.

jackMEsawyer

11-10-2005, 12:02 PM

IMHO, the picture you link shows....

AnaLucia holding the gun with both hands

We need someone to check out your two pixs and give a tiebreaker!!:kiss:

She is holding the gun with her Right hand, the left hand is the outer hand supporting it.

jackMEsawyer

11-10-2005, 12:03 PM

I don't think this looks like a pistol entrance wound...

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1539/screencapsofshannonsdeath2ib.jpg

I don't know what the "long sleeves" is implying, but this picture does show the wound close up.

Locked Up

11-10-2005, 12:05 PM

But what about the one bullet problem? AL has but one bullet in the gun. She said so. If she just shot Shannon the gun SHOULD be hanging at her side because it's useless now. No reason to have it drawn on Sayaid.

jackMEsawyer

11-10-2005, 12:09 PM

hellotzp

11-10-2005, 12:18 PM

I think it was Danielle. She may be watching the castaways to see if anyone gets "The Sickness". She sees Shannon go all nutso about something she "saw" and follows her into the woods and shoots her from far away.

I dunno though, I don't like to think about theories to much, I don't like to get attached to any one thing so I'm not dissapointed when it's not what I want. That said, I think this would be a fun scenario, unlikely, but fun.

well i'd be happy if this panned out. much more interesting than ana shooting shannon by mistake. which yeah - would create tension, for sure, but would ultimately be forgivable..

but if is was danielle, now...that opens up a whole can of worms, in terms of sayid's relationship with her. he's defended her in the past, and seems to feel a bond with her. he'd be tormented by guiltl if it was danielle who killed shannon -- and catch some hell from charlie, if not the rest of the midsection group, since he let her go after she stole aaron.

this would fit with the spoilers that the killer would be a serial murderer, and a monster of some type. monstrous, perhaps, would be a better word...

the woman killed her own shipmates, stole baby aaron to "barter" with the others, and builds all kinds of nasty traps meant to impale and dismember people. hmmm...

shannon's wound does look more like a stabbing than a shot - maybe it was one of danielle's traps that snared her, not ana. but that was my original thought when the spoilers said the death would be gruesome. so maybe i'm just getting too attached to my own theory, haha.

gotta say, they sure did make it look like ana.was the killer. :undecide:

venicebeachbrat

11-10-2005, 12:25 PM

Ana looked guilty though....she swallowed deeply and had this look on her face kinda like.....what have I done?

11-10-2005, 12:28 PM

I did some lightening of the shot of Shannon's wound
It indeed does look like she was stabbed
Since you can not post pic here I have no Idea were to host it so you all can see it.

Locked Up

11-10-2005, 12:29 PM

The more I read (you guys are all doing such a good job with this thread!) the more I'm convinced it wasn't AL. Right now I'm leaning toward Rousseau. It makes sense and it would have a huge impact on Sayaid.

So what we really need to concentrate on (those of us that believe it wasn't AL) is this: Was Shannon even shot? If it was with a rifle - this could be Rousseau... but then that's not a rifle in the left hand of the person Sayaid is looking up at.

If Shannon was stabbed, then where is the stray shot? Can someone tell me for sure what we're LOOKING AT when the shot goes off? Is it Shannon and Sayaid or AL's group?

Frogberto

11-10-2005, 12:32 PM

From http://2004.channel955.com/mojo_lost.html:

Who Shot Shannon?
There is a lot of debate on the message boards about who shot Shannon. On first viewing it looks like it is an open and shut case. Shannon has a bloody belly and Anna is holding a gun and looking guilty. Anna definitely shot something because her gun only had one bullet left and you can see from this picture that her gun is empty (the slide is locked back). But when the camera cuts back to Sayid holding a dying Shannon, the arm taking up the right side of the screen looks like a man's arm and the gun is in the left hand. Anna shoots right handed. Was it "The Others"? Was Walt bait? Did tail-ender Cindy (who went missing right before the shooting incident) have something to do with it? If Anna is the shooter, why would she think a screaming Shannon is part of "The Others"? "The Others" travel in groups and never make a sound. Or is this all just subjective and silly and the Lost message board "islanders" are digging too deep because there wasn't a lot to conspire about in last night's episode?

Just-a-Fan

11-10-2005, 12:37 PM

OK, too much thinking people... It was Ana that shot her, and all this talk of left vs right handed is silly... The evidence is clear, she is the only one with a gun, and in the scene, after Shannon turns we clearly see that the slife on the gun has locked back indicating that it is empty (She had One bullet left, so after the shot the top of the semi-auto pistol will lock back) there is also smoke coming from the barrel, AND everyone's reaction (in her group) is in line with that she shot Shannon.

Kristina

11-10-2005, 12:38 PM

If Anna is the shooter, why would she think a screaming Shannon is part of "The Others"? "The Others" travel in groups and never make a sound.

I didn´t think about that, but you definitely have a point there. They made a point stating that the others were traveling in groups, never left tracks and didn´t make sound. And Shannon was screaming, making a lot of tracks and was alone....

Besides, Jin or Michael would have heard the Sayid shouting for Shannon and said something....

peepstone

11-10-2005, 12:38 PM

Who else has a gun? No one besides Sayid and he didn't kill her.

Also, just b/c AL (or whoever that is) is holding the gun in her left hand after Shannon has been shot, does not mean that she shot the gun with her left hand.

I just realized. Sayid took his gun off when he was about to make love with Shannon. With all the hysteria of Shannon seeing Walt, it's possible that someone took off with the gun. Although Sayid didn't mention missing his gun. It is possible that Sayid was so involved with Shannon's seeming breakdown that he didn't think to think about his gun. Oh geez, that might be a little too complicated.

wedestroymyths

11-10-2005, 12:41 PM

This is going to be spoilerish, as I'm drawing from ABC's medianet press release for 2.8, but I think that the remote viewing ideas, and the idea of tricky camera cuts are missing the mark.

Here's why I think that:

"Collision" - Tempers flare when Ana Lucia and her group stumble upon Sayid and the other castaways, on "Lost." This is from the ABC release, and it implies that 2.8 is going to pick up right where last night left off. In the spoiler area there was much speculation as to why Sayid's name was mentioned in this press release, now we know. It appears to him, as to us, as if A-L is definitely the killer. Whether or not that's how it went down, or if A-L wa shooting at someone else who was the killer--well, I'd say it's a bit too early to speculate.

Locked Up

11-10-2005, 12:45 PM

Excellent point about Sayaid yelling after Shannon. Why wouldn't Michael or Jin have yelled back or said something to AL, Echo, and others. Think about it for a minute. Jin and Michael would have clearly heard Shannon and Sayaid. Especially if Michael hears Shannon screaming "Walt!!!" Michael would have called back.

DOMinatrix

11-10-2005, 12:46 PM

why would kate hurt shannon though? i mean... kate's not that dumb to mistake shannon for someone else.

and in my opinion... i think it was Danielle.

getmeouttahere

11-10-2005, 12:46 PM

Ok, assuming that Shannon was stabbed and not shot, don't be too quick in assuming Locke was the only one on the island that could handle a knife. In season 1, Michael caught Locke teaching Walt how to throw knives at a target and Shanon was running after Walt or someone she thought was Walt. That said.....how did the knife thrower have time to go to Shannon and take the knife out of her stomach and not be seen doing it? To quote the line in Orientation....I'm gonna have to watch this again.

conspiricytheory

11-10-2005, 12:58 PM

I am with those who believe that Danielle is the killer. Ana Lucia is way too easy. THe fact is they never actually show them on the same screen shot. The wound seems more like a knife wound to me then a bullet entry and the weapon the killer is holding doesn't exactly look like a gun. A shot was fired, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't Ana Lucia firing at the killer after stumbling across the killer. Danielle makes more sense to me. She has a history with Sayid to begin with. She has been on the island forever and has been shown to be less then sane at points. We really can't know what she has stashed around the island in terms of knives or guns. I'm leaning towards her.

ottstormn

11-10-2005, 01:10 PM

What about Desmond as the killer? When I heard the gunshot in the ep the first thing that I thought of was - that sounded like a shotgun blast. The wound we see on Shannon certainly did not come from a handgun. I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) that when Desmond took off he grabbed a shotgun and shells from the weapons vault. We know that Desmond is paranoid (although the Others ARE really out to get him) and not entirely stable. He could have easily hit Shannon with a shotgun blast and then took off.

Pure speculation on my part.

Locked Up

11-10-2005, 01:15 PM

I guess I see more "motive" with Roussean rather than with Desmond.

klalkis

11-10-2005, 01:41 PM

This should help: brightness adjusted pictures of the killer.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mczerone/Shnonkler1.jpg
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mczerone/Shnonkler2.jpg

AndyK

11-10-2005, 01:46 PM

Gotta figure there will be another angle in the upcoming episode, showing how Ana fired at a fleeing:
1) Desmond
2) Danielle
3) "Other"
Or, showing Ana firing and missing, at movement in the jungle, etc. Could also have been a Danielle-made spear trap that got Shannon, right before Ana fired at something...?

scottk517

11-10-2005, 01:55 PM

Two Things...

One - Ana Lucia definately fired her gun. The screen cap shows the slide locked back. She is holding the gun as if she had just fired, within a few seconds. She would not hold the gun at the firing position knowing that there was only 1 bullet in the gun.

Two - The cap showing the "killer" facing sayid and Shannon is NOT Ana Lucia. She would almost never hold the gun in her left hand. For one thing, the object doest not look like a gun and two, the gun would feel wrong in her left hand. That the best way to put it. I was in the army and fired a 9mm for 8 years and holding a gun in your non firing hand feels wrong and would not be natural. ou would only do it if there was a reason to be holding something in your firing hand.

Scott

Dmcquickly

11-10-2005, 01:56 PM

Saying this with malice towards none:

It'd be nice if people could read through the threads already started before starting their own thread. I know there's some cache to having "your own" thread, but seriously, it's very confusing to have two threads on one discussion. Mostly because the vast number of posts on this topic have been cogent, insightful theories and observations that none of us Lostaways should miss. By having two boards on a topic, we all run the risk of missing something important or unique. Since none of us can notice and comprehend everything, we work together as a community. Setting up separate neighborhoods to accomplish the same goals doesn't make sense.

Thanks all!

metallidevils

11-10-2005, 02:01 PM

Indydon

11-10-2005, 02:04 PM

First time poster.....I'm constantly amazed at the things everyone sees that I don't! LOL . I've looked at the images and for the life of me I can't see a gun being held by someone in their left hand. However, as Satid and SHannon were hugging and we were watching through some bushes, or a cave, or whatever, you could see the outline of a head or a shadow. Could this be the killer? Also, there was a post about guns.....Did Sayid ever get his gun back that he took out of his pants in the tent?

lost_knight

11-10-2005, 02:08 PM

Two - The cap showing the "killer" facing sayid and Shannon is NOT Ana Lucia. She would almost never hold the gun in her left hand. For one thing, the object doest not look like a gun and two, the gun would feel wrong in her left hand. That the best way to put it. I was in the army and fired a 9mm for 8 years and holding a gun in your non firing hand feels wrong and would not be natural. ou would only do it if there was a reason to be holding something in your firing hand.

Scott

Well it looks like a gun to me. If it isn't a gun then it is a blunt object, nothing that would make a puncture wound on Shannon. I vote it is a gun.

As for being in her left hand, I think that it could possibly just be an artistic decision. They decided to frame the picture that way and the only way the gun would be visible is in the left hand.

The best argument for if it is AL or not would be the actual person standing there. Is that AL from the backside is the only relevant point to this debate, at least in my mind.

Dmcquickly

11-10-2005, 02:10 PM

Posting this from the other thread, just to play my usual Socratic/Devil's Advocate role...

Three things about this:

First, this sounds terrifyingly similar to last year's debate about who hit Sayid over the head in the meadow. About 200 people posted it "sounded like a female". Then we found out it was Locke. So we should be careful about holding TPTB too closely to our sensory sensitivities.

Second, it's very possible that the two groups were filmed at different times during the shooting schedule. Continuity on this show is usually pretty good, but it's just possible that, if the two groups (tailies and Shannon/Sayid) were filmed at different times, nobody would have caught the left hand-right hand thing. Shooting on site often requires crews to work with different groups at different times. And if Maggie or Naveen had outside engagements, it makes even more sense that they'd shoot the tailies on a completely different day than the Shannon/Sayid scenes.

Third, my gut instinct is that the guy who is writing the Lost tie-in mystery book shot Shannon, just so he could have a crime to write about. j/k

destroy_musick

11-10-2005, 02:37 PM

i think some people are looking way too much into this

One shot was heard, AL had one bullet in her 9mm. She comes out of the jungle, gun still tracked with an empty chamber. The horrified look as she realises she shot an innocent person just rounds it off.

As for the left/right thing, i still keep by what i said, what we see in that shot is either:

A) bad continuity, the director wanted the shot of the murder weapon/victim, regardless of what side the handgun would be in

or

B) she has a clenched fist to the side and the flapping "knife" we see is in fact just one of the many holsters she has to her side and because of the dodgy camera angle, it makes it look like something is in her hand

thats just my thoughts on it

wcb2

11-10-2005, 02:49 PM

Because I read spoilers...

The killer was definately not AL. We will find out the real killer in two ep's. Danielle makes the most sense and would make for the best story IMHO.

I believe AL may have had a horrified look because she realizes she has just wasted the only bullet she has, possibly missing her target. I would think that to the tail-enders a gun would be a very hot item to own, but one without bullets would not. I'm not really sure that AL would look all that upset about killing Shannon since she does not know her and she has not seemed all that interested in the survival of the lostaways who are not a part of her group. That being said. I love this thread. I said right away to my husband that AL did not shoot Shannon & he would not hear of it.

addicted2much

11-10-2005, 02:52 PM

Second, it's very possible that the two groups were filmed at different times during the shooting schedule. Continuity on this show is usually pretty good, but it's just possible that, if the two groups (tailies and Shannon/Sayid) were filmed at different times, nobody would have caught the left hand-right hand thing. Shooting on site often requires crews to work with different groups at different times. And if Maggie or Naveen had outside engagements, it makes even more sense that they'd shoot the tailies on a completely different day than the Shannon/Sayid scenes.

You're right the person facing Sayid could have just been a stand-in. So, we really can't go by whether or not we think it was Michelle.

destroy_musick

11-10-2005, 02:55 PM

I still dont understand how if the spoiler you posted is true, wcb2, that we still only hear the one gun shot with AL's 9mm clearly spent

passenger27f

11-10-2005, 03:15 PM

Here's my theory:

- AL shot Shannon unintentionally
- AL was actually shooting at an apparition of the island (like wet, backwards talking Walt or Jack's father) which AL thought was an "other".
- because it was an apparition, the bullet passed through the apparition and hit shannon who was running up at the time
- AL is horrified when she realizes her bullet hit a different person than intended (and a blonde in impractical clothes obviously identifies her as a non-threat for AL)
- AL definitely fired a shot because her last shot left the slide open and smoke was coming from the gun
- AL is still holding the gun even though she spent the last bullet because she's so shocked at realizing she hit the wrong target she just froze
- Shannon then walks back to Sayid, away from AL and the group
- Sayid holds Shannon... and SOMEONE ELSE stands in front of him
- the "others" cleverly manipulated this situation

piscescat

11-10-2005, 03:18 PM

I hadn't thought of Danielle, but she's a possiblity. Doesn't she wear a sleeveless shirt too? Ana could look horrified to have witnessed the killing and it's entirely possible that the Tailies group reacted to something different than what was going on with Sayid & Shannon. I agree that if Michael were close enough to hear Shannon calling out Walt's name, he'd have been running too. And in getting a better look at Shannon's torso, I am of the opinion that bullets don't rip shirts open, just leave tidy round holes. She looks stabbed, not shot.

Hopefully, we won't have to wait too long to find out for sure.

lost_knight

11-10-2005, 03:23 PM

I still dont understand how if the spoiler you posted is true, wcb2, that we still only hear the one gun shot with AL's 9mm clearly spent

IMHO, the only possible scenario if AL isn't the shooter is if somebody stabbed Shannon and AL shot at that person as they ran off. There was only 1 shot (Oh yeah unless you count the scilencer theory :biggrin: ), so that would mean that AL was the one to shoot.

If it was not AL then who would it be? Those who took the other Tailies? Do they even have guns? The seabillies, if they are different than those wandering in the jungle? Danielle? What motive would she have? Desmond? What motive would he have? Any of the original Lostaways? What would their motive be?

Or is the whole death more of a set up for story lines now that the Tailies have made it to the other group. AL being the shooter isn't the easy way out, it actually makes the 2 groups comming together even more muddied than it was going to be in the first place. While I think that they will buy her story, with Michael, Sawyer, and Jin confirming that there are Others out there. But now AL will be tagged as the one responsible and be an incredible outsider, eventhoug she was the dominant one in the other group. For those who hate her, expect her to get some of her own medicine comming up soon.

destroy_musick

11-10-2005, 03:30 PM

passenger27f, i think you're onto something there. The only thing i wouldnt agree on is the last bit, i definetly think it was AL looking on at Sayid and Shannon and this talk that its a different person due to the gun in the wrong hand etc etc is continuity

Margalit

11-10-2005, 03:40 PM

Although my internet connection crashes every time I view a screen cap form LostMedia, the front of Shannon's blouse certainly looks slashed, as if by a knife (or claw), and not like a gunshot wound. I have no idea what motivation Kate would have for stabbing Shannon, and don't know whay anyone would have suggested it, BUT, a future episode IS entitled "What Kate Did." So...........?

contos

11-10-2005, 03:41 PM

There was one shot fired, and AL's gun is empty. She was the only one that shot at that moment. Now, whether or not she missed Shannon, and someone else killed her at that very moment I don't know. I do think there is more to it than meets the eye. But, to me it seems like AL thinks she is guilty. She might of fired into the jungle and didn't realize she missed. She probably thought she is the one that did it, even if she didn't. When they take Shannon back to Jack, he will see if there is a bullet in that wound or not. He should be able to tell right away if it's a stab wound or a bullet wound.

wcb2

11-10-2005, 03:44 PM

I don't think we saw enough of the scene to say for sure if Shannon was shot or stabbed (or even harmed by one of Danielle's amazing traps). It does seem clear that AL shot her gun, but not necessarily at Shannon. On another thread, someone brought up that AL could have shot Cindy by mistake. That would explain why she lookd so upset at what she had done.

Spoiler I have read said

That the killer was a monster or monsterous and had killed before. Also out there is that one lostaway protects the identy of the killer for a while. If these spoilers are correct, AL just does not fit as the killer.

I love that I am completely spoiled, but still do not know for sure what went down. What a great ep & a great show!

kajah

11-10-2005, 03:49 PM

KmMc241

11-10-2005, 03:59 PM

If you take one of the screenshots and brighten it up a bit, it looks as if the 'fabric' or 'knife' could actually be a leg and in the bend of the arm it looks like there is a reddish shirt/jacket, which to me looked like AL's top or it could possibly be hair. Also, the arm in the picture definatley looked like a male's arm not female. Look a couple pages back for the link for pictures that have been brightened.

lostbylost

11-10-2005, 04:26 PM

flora

11-10-2005, 05:05 PM

I'm using spoiler font because there is supposed to be a 2 day moritorium after an episode and also Spoiler info is being posted. I suggest asking the Mod's to move this thread to the Spoiler speculation area.

If you look at the brighten pictures and look through the space between the arm and the waist, you can see that someone is standing in front of this person. You can see the hair. The person everyone thinks is AL and has a gun in the left hand is a man and I don't think that it's a gun in his hand.

The rules on the 'lage have always said that everything is fair game after the episode has aired. I don't see any spoilers being posted in this thread as the episode aired last night. Previews are considered spoilers. Actual spoilers are considered spoilers. Theories about spoilers are considered spoilers. But after the U.S. airing of the show- any info from said program- not spoilers. If the rules have recently changed around here I haven't seen any new sticky notes alerting to that.

11-10-2005, 05:08 PM

I played with the contrast of the pic.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/00fbfb43f8.jpg
It is a shot of Shannon's wound. I looks very much like a stab wound and not a gun shot.

JPolarBear

11-10-2005, 05:16 PM

I gotta go with passenger27f's summary of what happened:
- AL shot Shannon unintentionally
- AL was actually shooting at an apparition of the island (like wet, backwards talking Walt or Jack's father) which AL thought was an "other".
- because it was an apparition, the bullet passed through the apparition and hit shannon who was running up at the time
- AL is horrified when she realizes her bullet hit a different person than intended (and a blonde in impractical clothes obviously identifies her as a non-threat for AL)
- AL definitely fired a shot because her last shot left the slide open and smoke was coming from the gun
- AL is still holding the gun even though she spent the last bullet because she's so shocked at realizing she hit the wrong target she just froze
- Shannon then walks back to Sayid, away from AL and the group
- Sayid holds Shannon... and SOMEONE ELSE stands in front of him
- the "others" cleverly manipulated this situation

'Drippy Walt' was drawing Shannon and Sayid towards the 'tailies', and telling them to be quiet. (where did Vincent go btw? 2nd time he dissappears when walt shows up.)
I agree, it looks like AL shot at Walt, but hit Shannon by mistake. Everyone freezes by what they had just witnessed. The 'someone else' could've been an Other, who set up the whole thing. Or may have been Danielle. Sayid sees him/her, and is shocked. He knows who did it. He likely is the one who won't tell right away.

*Notice that Walt was dripping 'slime', not water?*

rebopper

11-10-2005, 05:35 PM

This should help: brightness adjusted pictures of the killer.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mczerone/Shnonkler1.jpg (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emczerone/Shnonkler1.jpg)
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mczerone/Shnonkler2.jpg (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emczerone/Shnonkler2.jpg)

That looks like Desmond to me. The writers have said:

That Desmond will come in and out of the story, kind of like Danielle. So expect to see him again.

I, too, think that Sayid's gun is important. The gun he removed to make love may have been used to kill his lover.

rebopper

11-10-2005, 05:40 PM

winks

11-10-2005, 05:42 PM

First i wanna give some props to member dylan_1200 for finding these shots.
Ana is right handed.....
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=828

Killer is left handed.....
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=830

Now of couse we are going to see in a upcoming episode that Sayid will want revenge on who killed Shannon, and since he saw Ana he's gonna assume it was her. Once again... IT WAS NOT ANA LUCIA who killed Shannon

you do realize that these two shots are both of Ana Lucia holding the gun. you might want to watch the episode again. the first shot is when Sayid first looks up at her and the second shot is from when Ana put the gun down to her left side as she realizes that there is no threat.

realfreckles

11-10-2005, 06:01 PM

I think Cindy was kidnapped by The Others, got away somehow and was running away when she saw Shannon. Stabbed her with one of those man-made weapons. AL shoots without looking but misses (or shoots Cindy). I think the scene can be called Cindy, monkey in the middle.

corvin12xu

11-10-2005, 07:17 PM

Ok so so far I have not seen anyone mention the fact that in the hatch there is a bunch of guns and knives?

So it could almost be any female? Or man with long hair?

Also We are not a hundred percent confirmed that Cindy or Shannon are dead? People are assuming they are.

Remember when you assume?

tustinlockesmith

11-10-2005, 07:23 PM

ok, whoa! the shot being fired into a Walt apparition and hitting Shannon? seroiusly? If Michael's goal in life right now is to find Walt.....
a) he would have heard and recognized Shannon screaming for Walt and Sayid yelling Shannon, and known those voices, therefore most likely telling AL NOT to fire....
b) Why would Sayid have a look of vengeful anger if it turned out to be the people frpom the raft with AL, they know each other.... wouldn't he have a different expression?
c) If AL shot at an aparition of Walt, that they thought was real, wouldn't AL have thought, hmmm young black male, probably Michael's son, and NOT SHOOT!
Just some thoughts that to me, contradict that someone shot at who they thought was Walt.

contos

11-10-2005, 07:43 PM

It's unlikely, but possible, that two shots from two guns were fired at exactly the same time.

Synchronized gun shots!? Like you said, not likely, but could be, you never know with this show!:biggrin:

daz

11-10-2005, 07:45 PM

ana lucia shot lucy or whoever it was that ran away from them
danielle stabbed shannon

end of.

even if shannons wound doesnt look like a gunshot wound, analucia still shot a round at somebody, and the look on all their faces and AL's disappointment to her shot suggests it was somebody they all know

meanwhile somewhere else in the jungle, danielle decides to ninja shannon

im sick of reading people repeat "OMG YES IT WASNT ANA LUCIA!!!"

passenger27f

11-10-2005, 08:02 PM

c) If AL shot at an aparition of Walt, that they thought was real, wouldn't AL have thought, hmmm young black male, probably Michael's son, and NOT SHOOT!
Just some thoughts that to me, contradict that someone shot at who they thought was Walt.

I don't think AL shot at the apparition of Walt. Only Sayid and Shannon saw the apparition of Walt. My original theory is that AL shot at *AN* apparition, most likely one of an other.

nonyabizwaz

11-10-2005, 08:07 PM

Here's how I thought about it - when we see Sayid and Shannon hugging each other at the very end, it is made pretty obvious that they are being watched, that for a few seconds we are almost seeing them through the killer's eyes. The killer knew what he/she was doing when he/she shot/stabbed shannon, which is why I don't think it could have been AL that killed her.

TOTALLY!!! I remember thinking during that scene that someone was watching. I thought they'd show someone watching then, but when they didn't I figured I was wrong. I'm so glad you mentioned this.

Also, I agree with whoever it was who said Sayid removing his gun was important. Why else would they have shown that? I mean, where's the romance in that?

Los

11-10-2005, 08:21 PM

We have another issue no one has picked up on yet (to my knowledge). AL makes it very clear earlier in the episode that there is "one bullet" left. If she did shoot Shannon, there's really no need to keep the guy "pulled" on Sayiad. Granted he doesn't know the gun is now empty.... but she's got nothing left to shoot him with. Now... if she DIDN'T shoot Shannon- holding the gun on Sayaid (who is holding a dead body afterall) makes A LOT MORE SENSE.

Just a thought.

She may have not killed Shannon, but she definitely shot at something.
If you look closely-her gun was cocked. Thus showing me that she did shoot.
The wound does look to be a knife wound though. This is what makes this show
so great. So many theories, so many possibilities. Also, if you look closely when
Ana is still holding up her gun, you see Jin and Michael coming into the scene.
Remember, they were running away from something (others). That's why I believe Jin and Michael did not hear Shannon.

passenger27f

11-10-2005, 08:23 PM

galaxygirl

11-10-2005, 08:33 PM

aaagh, I hate you people, I was so sure Ana did it and now I'm doubting it a lot lol.
Ther one thing I have a big problem with is that Shannon ran away from Sayid and after Walt screaming his name. Now, knowing Michael, he would have reacted for sure, IF he was nearby and heard her scream his son's name. I'm starting to doubt they(Shannon/Sayid and the Tailies) are even at the same place right now lol.

Controversleigh

11-10-2005, 08:33 PM

The whole left hand/right hand thing isn't good enough for me....for one thing, that pic of the left hand one looks like Michelle....the arm, the jacket, the bundle (the big stick) at her side....plus, he's looking right at her....

....also, Ana clearly (judging from the gun) is out of bullets meaning she fired the last one, but we didn't hear two shots...and even if someone shot at the exact same time, what are the odds she would have missed....now the only way any of that theory could be true was if Ana was a few feet ahead of the rest of her crew so they didn't see who she shot....she actually shot at an othet who shot Shannon at the EXACT same time....

...anyway, I think the left/right thing is just another run-of-the-mill inconsistency....that kind of stuff happens all the time b/c they do each actors stuff seperately, and the other stands there while they get the others' shot it....

nonyabizwaz

11-10-2005, 08:34 PM

More theory:

I forget... what did Sayid say when the person stood before him with shannon in his arms?

I don't think any words were spoken. Facial expressions said it all.

Gobi-1

11-10-2005, 08:34 PM

Having gone thru the thread I will peice together what I think could have happend.

Shannon being killed and Ana shooting someone are TWO SEPARATE events that happened at the same time. It was edited to looks like Ana shot Shannon. If you notice we never see the Tailies and Sayid in the same shot. As someone has already mentioned if they were that close Michael and Jin would have heard and recognized Sayid's voice as he yelled for Shannon. They were two far away to here him yelling but the gunshot was loud enough to be heard by Sayid.

Here's how it went down.

Shannon and Sayid hug as "The Killer" watches them from a distance. Shannon sees "Walt" and runs into the bushes. "The Killer" stabs Shannon and Sayid here's a distant gun shot. Shannon stumbles back towards Sayid and he holds her. He looks up to face "The Killer"

At that same exact moment Ana Lucia see's someone emerge from the brush and she shoots (This is the gunshot Sayid here.) She is horrified to see that she has shot Cindy. Michael, Jin and the others are shocked to see this happen.

riccool

11-10-2005, 08:35 PM

I have now watched the final scenes at least 20 times. I am truely torn. The looks on everyone's faces say it wasn't AL, but if you look closely at the back of the killer facing Sayid, you see what looks like a beigh ish stick like the one AL had on strapped to her waist earlier in the show. Guess we will have to wait two weeks.

Robinhood56

11-10-2005, 08:54 PM

I can only assume from much of what is written here that most people are going from memory and screen-caps. Not always a good source.

I can understand why some think Shannon's wound looks like a slash but it isn't. Her shirt has vertical seams as a design and one is in the center of the front making the material thicker. When the blood seeps from the wound it would fill that seam, dripping down and make it darker therefore making it look like a slash.

About the tail-folk not hearing Shannon calling for Walt. The rain was very heavy and even when kneeling next to each other Sayid and Shannon were practically shouting. AL and company would have heard something but with the heavy rain and the whispers I doubt they heard anything clear. I've been in rains like that. You can barely hear yourself.

I, too watched the scene over and over. Shannon falls into Sayids arms and dies (okay, her head falls back and she goes limp). He hugs her and cries he looks up and the very next shot is of AL holding the gun on them with Eko standing nearby looking downward (like at people kneeling). We can see Jin in the lead of the rest carting Sawyer in the background. The arm we see is AL and the "gun" everyone thinks they see in the left hand is the rather large stick in a cloth sack she wears on her left hip throughout the episode.

With the physical placement of our regulars I don't see how it could have been anyone but AL who did the shooting and Jin and Micheal were not near enough to hear anything at all much less voices over all that rain.

addicted2much

11-10-2005, 09:10 PM

Here is a link to Kristin from E Online's comments about the Lost death. I know the ep has aired and info really isn't a spoiler but, I will put the link in spoiler font. Kristin is clarifying comments she made and I don't think it refers to upcoming eps,but there is some confusion as to what actually happened.
So read at your own risk.
http://www.eonline.com/Insider/Boards/ann.jspa?annID=243

lostbylost

11-10-2005, 10:21 PM

The rules on the 'lage have always said that everything is fair game after the episode has aired. I don't see any spoilers being posted in this thread as the episode aired last night. Previews are considered spoilers. Actual spoilers are considered spoilers. Theories about spoilers are considered spoilers. But after the U.S. airing of the show- any info from said program- not spoilers. If the rules have recently changed around here I haven't seen any new sticky notes alerting to that.

My bad. I was confusing rules for the linear board with the threaded board. See what lack of sleep can do to you. My sincere apologies to all.

cid

11-10-2005, 10:37 PM

One more things folks...about ana's look...nobody's said a word, she still doesn't know that Sayid and Shannon aren't the OTHERS.

D

lockefanmike

11-10-2005, 10:49 PM

new to thefuselage forums. been on abc forums awhile under the same username. i believe the show allowed us to believe ana lucia killed shannon. this would be too obvious. the camera viewpoint from the woods as sayid and shannon were gettin' all fuzzy in the rain suggested there was someone lurking in the jungle just out of sight. my opinion it was dannielle. it all went down when sayid expressed his love for shannon. dannielle trusted sayid, and he fixed her music box. shes been alone for 16 years or at least we are to believe she was alone. the "others could be keeping her around to infiltrate other survivor groups. dannielle either stabbed or shot shannon at the same time ana lucia shot at dannielle. remember from season one, after sayid escaped from dannielles shelter, he heard the voices in the jungle and shortly after came across dannielle again. the voices are obviousley tied to dannielle and the others.

lostbylost

11-10-2005, 10:53 PM

Actually Sayid heard the Whispers in the jungle after leaving Danielle on his way back to the Lostaways. He didn't see Danielle again until she walked into the camp on the beach.

lockefanmike

11-10-2005, 11:04 PM

Robinhood56

11-10-2005, 11:09 PM

i believe that is what i said. after he escaped, he came across her again, and tried to talk her into coming back with him. they held a gun on each other for awhile. my point is that the whispers could be tied to dannielle.

You actually said that he heard the whispers before he found Danielle again. that was inacurate.

If they are connected to her then what was with Sawyer hearing them? She hadn't been seen fo a while. He was chasing a boar.

flaznar

11-10-2005, 11:32 PM

Watching it again, after we see Sayid and Shannon on the ground, from what I am assuming is the shooter's POV, you can see the frayed edges of whatever the heck that is that AL carries on her left side all episode. They are visible just above the elbow of the person's arm that we see in frame. It is a frayed rope covering the handle of something. You really can't see it on the screen caps, but you can see it at home. I think that is AL looking at them for sure. Does that mean she shot and killed Shannon - no, but it does mean she is standing there...and not in some other location.

Here is the rope covered thing from a different screen cap -
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=354

sloan99

11-10-2005, 11:40 PM

I am thinking that since they have been saying:

Someone else will be blamed for the killing before the real killer is revealed

That it is Lock's arm we are seeing.
I think he might have been wrong place/wrong time. He handed the baby off to Charlie and excused himself. He later told Chalie that he didn't want to step on any toes. Maybe he decided to get out of the way and do some "tracking" and "exploring" for a while.It would be convenient for whoever stabbed Shannon to drop the knife and run off, leaving Lock to step out (after hearing Sayids calls) and pick it up and look really suspicious.Lock might have also seen who actually did stab her and, in his usual tight lipped evaluate the situation first way, took the knife from that person and walked out to face Sayid.I think seeing Lock would give Sayid that kind of look on his face but so would Danielle.
I was thinking Danielle at first, because she may have been watching Shannon get the "sickness" from afar and is trying to keep Sayid safe. Remember that she tells him that he needs to stay with her to be safe from the sickness when she captured him. It just looks like a man's thin, not overly muscular, no sleeved wearing arm though. The arm that is show in the screencaps looks like Lock's to me. Anyone else do an arm line-up? LOL

kensa

11-11-2005, 09:36 PM

Robinhood56

11-11-2005, 09:45 PM

The screen cap of the arm is Ana. the hand is not holding a gun. What you see is the butt of the big stick Ana has at her side the entire episode.

kensa

11-11-2005, 09:55 PM

actually, watching that bit back she never takes her other hand off the gun; she's pointing it at the ground but holding it with two hands.

dylan_1200

11-11-2005, 09:57 PM

The screen cap of the arm is Ana. the hand is not holding a gun. What you see is the butt of the big stick Ana has at her side the entire episode.
I concur again. I have posted my revised thoughts after watching the episode. But I also believe Ana is not the killer and the 'gun handle' is just fabric or something of that nature. No longer an indication of the true killers identity.
Unfortunately we will have to wait 2 weeks for any answers.

shanzy288

11-11-2005, 10:40 PM

Ana Lucia definitely didn't kill Shannon. I just watched that scene several times on Tivo and you see Shannon bloody and fall into Sayid's arms, then it cuts to Ana Lucia holding the gun out in front of her (we know it was used because it's been triggered), HOWEVER, the next shot is of Sayid in shock looking at the killer and we see the "killer's" left arm and I swear if you look super carefully that arm is not holding a gun, but a spear or something. You can even see the very tip of it move up the killer's arm. Shannon was NOT killed with a gun by Ana Lucia.
AL did kill someone or something (hopefully not Vincent) probably not though cuase I think Michael would have flipped out for killing his son's dog. Maybe she shot Danielle or Cindy. But definitely not Shannon. Or maybe she killed Danielle, who killed Shannon.
For those of you with Tivo, check it out and you'll be shocked.

sami

11-11-2005, 10:50 PM

wow,it always amazes me that people catch these suttle clues. I'll definately watch again.

lostjoe

11-11-2005, 11:01 PM

I just watched the scene again, and I'm pretty sure that it was Ana that shot Shannon. You'll notice that the shooter (in the scene with Sayid) has a bulk on her left side like Ana. The top part of what you called a spear, I believe to be the top of the stick that is sticking out of Ana's 'holster' (the bulk on her left side).

Edit: I'm starting to think that there's nothing in her left had and that it's just a piece of cloth hanging from her clothes.

Robinhood56

11-11-2005, 11:18 PM

Please check out

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=25313

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=25389

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=25689

or

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=25652

Really no need for a new thread for this subject.

LostPack

11-11-2005, 11:39 PM

Trying to make sense of it so I reviewed the ep and here's my notes:
Starting about 34 minutes into the ep..The tailies are hoisting stretchered Sawyer up over the root mountain. lots of grunts and they all are focused on the hoisting. We see Cindy at the "tail end" of chain as she passes a large stick to libby. we see ana help pull libby up. They are at the top when Ana realizes Cindy is AWOL.. she calls out for her - there's some calling and conversation about cindy. Ana says she's going after her. we hear thunder in the background. Eko stops her and they have an exchange:
Ana: I'm goin after her.
Eko: No. We stay together. we split up and we give them what they want
ana: this is all your fault. we never should have gone through the jungle. you risked our lives just to save him. he's already deaddd. this one's on you.
we hear the whispers - Michael says "what the hell is that" and ana draws her gun and does the side to side holding gun surveillance move. they all look randomly around libby says "oh god" and ana screams RUN!!!!
end scene
38 minutes into ep:
shannon flashback ends with sound of thunder and rain. we see shannon running with vincent on leash barking and sayid running after her. we're in the jungle and its raining and muddy. shannon trips and sayid runs to her. scene starts shot through some type of cut out, then regular close up shots - sayid tells her he loves her and will never leave her.. they hug.. shot is seen from the cut out area again.. and whoop heres the whispers. we see sayid looking around trying to figure out whats going on.. and the camera goes back in tight and we see him focus on something in front of him and shannon turns around.. it appears to be Walt saying "shhhhhhh" shannon turns back to sayid asking did you see him, sayid nods and appears rather frozen for the moment - and shannon jumps up yelling walt walt and we see walt walt go off to the side - and sayid is still rather frozen in the same place - camera goes tighter on him and he seems to blink out of it and yells shannon shannon - she yells walt wait and starts to go off after walt walt as sayid trips over a root and falls - (yes there is some sort of metallic or steel thing behind him coming out of the ground) and as he gets up to continue running after her we hear a gunshot BANG - he pauses - and then continues saying shannon and runs towards her. we see her back and as she turns we know she's hit and she falls into his arms. he looks up and we see ana and eko wet with rain and she's holding the gun - we then see sayid holding shannon and the shooters arm (which now seems it could be ana's arm) and then back to the tailies who all are standing in what seems to be the same rain as sayid and shannon - as they come forward with a look of surprise/shock.. ana's arms go down and she's looking at whatever she shot.
we know things aren't as they seem - and there could be a lot of things that we think we're seeing that aren't going to be the real thing. on the surface it looks like ana fired her gun and the bullet ended up in shannon. but as lostoholics we know there's a lot there that doesn't meet the eye - or more than meets the eye - or stuff our eyes aren't really meeting yet. :ohwell:
Although it seems to be staged for us to see that ana shoots shannon - we know this may not be the case. or maybe it is. My personal feeling is that ana wouldn't have yelled RUN!!! without reason. Seeing shannon (who is yelling walt walt) and sayid (who is yelling (shannon shannon) doesn't seem to be enough for her to yell RUN!! to her group. I'm not sure who she was yelling this to. I'm not sure who it is that Sayid is looking at. Possibly - ana is warning of some danger and yelling run to shannon - she could have seen the gunperson aiming at shannon - maybe the whispers are guiding the gunperson.
there's too many unknowns right now - but as i said - i don't think things are as they seem.

ELTaino74

11-11-2005, 11:53 PM

actually, watching that bit back she never takes her other hand off the gun; she's pointing it at the ground but holding it with two hands.

Ever thought that it was another scene. Maybe Ana Lucia shot one of the other and by the time Sayid came to Shannon he saw the Tailies there and saw Ana Lucia with the gun. There are post saying that Shannon was probably stabbed and not shot

ELTaino74

11-12-2005, 12:14 AM

In minute 41:03 the scene wher you see Shannon turning around to Sayid after we here the gun shot. If you pause it on time it looks like a stabbing not a gun shot. I was able to freeze frame it and have saved the picture, whoever whats to see the picture just email me

ELTaino74@yahoo.com
subject: Lost EP2_06

Thanks

criggy

11-12-2005, 12:38 AM

http://home.mchsi.com/~capandhunny/wsb/media/973900/site1080.gif

i posted this in another thread (got this from twop forum)

what do you think about this?

Noeland

11-12-2005, 01:26 AM

what the hell is that?????
Njc------------

dylan_1200

11-12-2005, 04:37 AM

Ive had to edit this particular post after more findings but:48 days is COMPLETELY a flashback episode - which means the very next episode to continue present events after abandoned is Collision so Anas group have DEFINITELY run into Sayid. But, a stab/rifle wound will clear Ana straightaway and allow the show to progress without to much hassle. I just believe that Ana killing Shannon in a whooppssie daisy situation to instigate a troubled merger of the 2 groups is just to crappy, and believe Shannons death has more to do with the secrets of the island.
Just more thoughts.

SpankyMcFister

11-12-2005, 07:08 AM

I am pretty sure it was Ana. I don't think it could have been anyone else. Of course that is my opinion. When Sayid looked up Ana was holding the gun.That, plus the "Oh shit I just screwed up" look she had on her face.

SpankyMcFister

11-12-2005, 07:09 AM

Ever thought that it was another scene. Maybe Ana Lucia shot one of the other and by the time Sayid came to Shannon he saw the Tailies there and saw Ana Lucia with the gun. There are post saying that Shannon was probably stabbed and not shotHmmmmmmm, "no".

nonyabizwaz

11-12-2005, 08:33 AM

That, plus the "Oh crap I just screwed up" look she had on her face.

She would've had that same look on her face if she had shot Cindy.

LostPack

11-12-2005, 10:03 AM

http://home.mchsi.com/~capandhunny/wsb/media/973900/site1080.gif (http://home.mchsi.com/%7Ecapandhunny/wsb/media/973900/site1080.gif)
i posted this in another thread (got this from twop forum) what do you think about this?

I took this file and slowed down the animation per frame and added a first and last frame to see where the loop starts and ends. Still not sure what we are seeing though lol.. but it's easier to see in slow motion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/elpack/site1080.gif

criggy

11-12-2005, 10:51 AM

thank's for doing that lostpack

i think we can agree that it is not AL'S gun? (looks like an iron bar to me)

we have to remember that TPTB knew this epi was spoiled for month's and they had to
come up with something with a big twist.

we will find out in two weeks!

Zada

11-12-2005, 11:13 AM

Wow, after viewing the shot posted by criggy and LostPack, I have to agree, that does not look like Ana's gun at all but I still can't tell if it's a gun or a long knife.

If you watch through the arm of the person holding the gun (or knife, whichever you believe), you can see something. It looks like it might be a person. At one point, just above the gun holders elbow, you can see this something just for a quick second.

I've also been trying to look at the fingers of the gun holder's hand. Ana was wearing a ring on her left ring finger. Is there one on the gun holder's hand? I can't can't really tell.

hellotzp

11-12-2005, 11:18 AM

after looking at this clip a bunch of times, i think it is eko, holding one of the spears, and either ana or libby in front of him, just visible for a glimpse. not that that proves anything...

Overshot

11-12-2005, 11:19 AM

hellotzp

11-12-2005, 11:22 AM

criggy

11-12-2005, 11:28 AM

of course this could be an elaborate wind-up by TPTB.......:biggrin:

CiscoKid

11-12-2005, 11:49 AM

Do you guys think its possible that when shannon chased walt he ran out into the tailies who were on HIGH ALERT. Ana saw walt running towards her and he looked all freaky like one of the others. She shot him because he seemed to be charging her and when the bullet hit him it went straight through since he was a psycic abberition (not real) and it hit shannon who was not far behind.
This would leave the tailies thinking what the CRAP just happened and then of course sayid ran out assuming ana to be completely guilty.

LostPack

11-12-2005, 12:52 PM

The shooter did not act alone. As you can see, in order for Shannon's wound to have been made, the bullet would have had to have travelled through her stomach, back out through her wrist, bounce off her thigh and back up into her left breast and then make a 180 degree turn back down into her gut. There were two shooters.
I think this quote indicates it was an overshot..
one, on a grassy knoll.. the other, from a book depository.
AHH yes. That shiny thing we saw behind sayid was in fact a book depository. It was actually one shot - an overshot - that hit the shiny thing on the ground (the book depository) and bounced off that striking Shannon. So I disagree that it was 2 shooters - it was just one overshot and a bounce.

shanzy288

11-12-2005, 09:19 PM

has anyone else figured out what type of weapon it was in the figures left hand that Sayid is looking at

TheMe

11-12-2005, 11:09 PM

Has anyone noticed if Shannon could have had Sayids gun tucked anywhere, or stashed anywhere? She did try awfully hard to go alone, and told Sayid "don't help me up" when she fell. Reaching I know, but could it have been strapped to her leg beneath her skirt (to conceal it from Sayid)? She wanted desperately to be believed, but could she have been desperate enough to shoot at the Walt image she's being told is not real, and prove to herself that it's not real.

- or prove herself right and rid herself of the haunting hallucination with a self-inflicted wound

one more option, the gun - taped to her leg, goes off accidentally?

ELTaino74

11-13-2005, 09:31 PM

Once again...it was not Ana Lucia who shot Shannon.
First: the wound looks more like a stabbing then a gunshot, if you care for the pic of this evidence email me ELTaino74@yahoo.com w/ subject Lost Ep2_06
Second: In this still shot http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=828 you see Ana Lucia holding the trigger with her right hand, meaning she's a right handed person. Notice also that on her left side there is nothing (nothing like Mr. Eko used to knock out Michael, Jin and Sawyer)
Third: As any gun person knows, if your a right handed person, after shooting, your not going to move that gun to your left hand and lower your arm. In this picture
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=831 you can see that in front of this persons hand, is like the same type of weapon that Mr. Eko used ( http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=407).

If you have evidence to prove me wrong, i would like to hear it. The verdict. INNOCENT :biggrin:

moshnz

11-13-2005, 10:41 PM

does anyone know who on the Island are left handed from watching Seasons 1 and 2 closely?

shanzy288

11-14-2005, 03:29 AM

I think it was Freddie or Jason. Most likely Jason cuz Shannon's wound looks like it was done with an axe, not by claws.

TheMe

11-14-2005, 03:41 AM

Right hand, left hand, so what. The cameraman has bigger fish to fry. There's something called the 180 degree rule. It means when you have multiple people in the frame you draw an imaginary line and make sure never to cross it. Since we see Michelle from her left side when she's holding the gun with both hands, they can't move the camera to her right side and film Naveen and Maggie from there as this would look completely off. They have to have Michelle's back on the right in frame. If this means she has to hold the gun in her left hand in order for it to show, so be it. This is film. Film rules apply. Science only applies if it doesn't clash with the film rules.

I still think there are two scenes/ two axiss - easily cut together to make two scenes look like one following the axis lines.

capnpatty

11-14-2005, 04:34 AM

Here's My Opinion:
Well, when Sayid is holding dead Shannon he looks up and sees a left arm. I think this is definately Ana and what you see by her arm is her fuzzy wooden stick.
Sayid thinks she is the killer which is why he gives her that look.
I think that the killer stabbed or shot her from another complete angle because she turns around and then falls into Sayid's arms. The real killer could have been over there and easily escaped...

LostPack

11-14-2005, 06:10 AM

the only issue i have with all of this is that it appears that sayid is watching the whole thing unfold - he's running after shannon - so if someone stepped out to stab her, i have a hard time thinking he wouldn't have seen that.

lostbylost

11-14-2005, 08:29 AM

Sayid didn't witness any of it. When Shannon runs after Walt, Sayid doesn't move right away. In fact he does run after her until he hears the shot. Granted it is a very short period of time between hearing the shot and getting to Shannon but there is enough of a lag to make things appear different than they realy are.

mipanz

11-14-2005, 09:32 AM

I watched this part over and over again, and I think there isn't a gun in her left hand. It is whatever she wears around her waist. You can see the top of it moving near her forearm. Her hand just falls near it to look similar to a hand holdin a pistol.

Jacks Dad

11-14-2005, 09:38 AM

lostbylost

11-15-2005, 04:32 AM

Well I guess the first question to ask is was Shannon murdered or was her death accidental? If one thinks she was murdered then it becomes a question of Motive, Means and Opportunity. Who would want Shannon Dead? There are only The Others who might know that Walt is trying to contact her and want her out of the way or Danielle. If we believe Danielle's story that she killed her whole crew including her love Robert because she believed they had the sickness and would pose a danger to the outside world, then it is totally plausible that she would kill Shannon if she thought Shannon was exhibiting signs of being infected. I, for one don't believe she was jealous of Shannon's relationship with Sayid. If she was attempting to win Sayid's affections she went about it in all the wrong ways, especially when she kidnapped baby Aaron and attempted to trade him for Alex. Her motive would be to stop the sickness. She has the means both firearm and knife, so which ever you believe was used she had access to and is proficient with. Opportunity she has also since she knows the "island" very well and seems to move around throughout the jungle. The "Others" would also have means and opportunity. The Boat "others" had a gun and we all saw what happened to Goodwin. They are quiet and live in the Jungle.

If accidental then I would have to say it would end up being AnaLu. It will create tension between the two groups, even though I think her sparkling personality would have done the trick.

Kristina

11-15-2005, 04:40 AM

I feel that the name of the killer is, if not unimportant, at least not the most important question. The most important question is who are suspected and who gets the blame....
Only suspicions would create enough tension between the groups to light a fire..... Even without knowing the truth :ohwell:
Perhaps suspicions would create even more tension, since that created uncertainty which may further enhance tension and suspicions..... :confused:

Sam_A

11-15-2005, 11:19 AM

The gunshot was much too loud for a pistol like Ana-Lucia's. Especially in such heavy rain, with noise everywhere around them.

bearsgonefishin

11-15-2005, 02:26 PM

the writers have confirmed Ana killed Shannon; IMO if this was a ruse they wouldnt be doing podcast explaining how Ana killing Shannon leads to great conflict between the tailies and the lostees. Who knows maybe they are really messing with us, but I doubt it.

bearsgonefishin

11-15-2005, 02:38 PM

After "Abandoned" aired, Damon posted something to the effect that "the only option is to leak false information, but we simply can't lie to the fans". Call me gullible but I believe him; if he chooses to divulge any information at all, it's trustworthy info.

I agree

MichaelVartanishot

11-16-2005, 11:44 AM

I re-watched this episode again for the third time. If you look closely enough, the look on AL's face and Sayid's face clearly show that it was AL that shot Shannon. I don;t know how the knife rumor got started, but you can barely see Shannon's shirt and there is so much blood it is hard to see a rip ot tear from a knife. If this was really a ruse, don't you think the writers and producers would have done a better job of masking the whole incident?
They made it clear someone was going to die and they have said in interviews how wonderful Maggie Grace was since she knew last season she was the one. She went on press junkets and played it up really well that she and Sayid would explore their relationship more, knowing full well her character was going to get killed.
Shannon was shot and is dead, I don't think there is any other mystery behind it.

karmakimmie

11-16-2005, 12:41 PM

So here's some additional confirmation (if necessary) that Ana shot Shannon....
http://tvguide.com/News/AskAusiello/

TheMe

11-16-2005, 01:05 PM

I agree that it wasn't AL, and it wasn't a gunshot that "killed" Shannon.

!st - the gunshot is being fired too far away (I attempted to justify this in http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=25462&highlight=some+observations this thread)

2nd - I f anyone still has the TVguide article where they talk about Sawyers gunshot wound, a medical professor from UCLA explains "a gunshot wound is very small, less than 1/2 inch" or something along those lines...

lastly - why leave us with a cliffhanger over the killers identity, then spill the beans in podcasts and publications released even before the next episode?

BTD Greg

11-16-2005, 01:18 PM

lastly - why leave us with a cliffhanger over the killers identity, then spill the beans in podcasts and publications released even before the next episode?

Because the identity wasn't meant to be a cliffhanger. We saw who did it at the end of the episode. The only "cliffhanger" is the now-what? factor.

TheMe

11-16-2005, 01:28 PM

Because the identity wasn't meant to be a cliffhanger. We saw who did it at the end of the episode. The only "cliffhanger" is the now-what? factor.

showing them all in the same frame would've helped to establish the non-cliffhanger aspect - and I really don't care to see the screengrab that says "sticky clubby thingy" for the umpteenth time...

BTD Greg

11-16-2005, 01:39 PM

showing them all in the same frame would've helped to establish the non-cliffhanger aspect - and I really don't care to see the screengrab that says "sticky clubby thingy" for the umpteenth time...

Well, yeah, it would have ... if the Lost people thought that there would be any confusion, but I don't think they did. The "who-shot-Shannon" controversy was completely fan-created. I don't think it occured to the director that what was needed was a nice, long tracking shot through the jungle so that we could see all the characters present and accounted for.

zorb79

11-16-2005, 02:09 PM

This is a hard one. I'm still not convinced either way. I have watched the ending over and over again and when Ana lowers the gun after firing it does look like she could have lowered it with her left hand. Only time will tell.

In another note. I do find it strange that Cindy (of the tailies) vanished the way she did. There was no sign and no scream. My thought originally was that she is one of the others as well (just like Ethan). I know that she was a flight attendant on the plane, but if the whole airline is in on this, it could make sense. Just a thought. I did hear something about tere being a cave under the hill that they all had to climb up. Did anyone else see it?

lost_knight

11-16-2005, 06:01 PM

I do find it interesting that more time has been spent debating if AL shot Shannon or not, and not nearly the attention is given to Cindy's disapearance.

There seems to be much more mystery surrounding her disappearance and I think more theories that could come from that. To me the Shannon thing was pretty obvious at the time I viewed it. Now that there has been confirmation of what happened, the discussion should naturally turn toward why and how Cindy disappeared.

And perhaps tonight there will be more hints given to answer that question.

Kell

11-17-2005, 07:28 PM

Well, yeah, it would have ... if the Lost people thought that there would be any confusion, but I don't think they did. The "who-shot-Shannon" controversy was completely fan-created. I don't think it occured to the director that what was needed was a nice, long tracking shot through the jungle so that we could see all the characters present and accounted for.

Thank you. This is a very good articulation of this issue. The director chose an interesting shot selection and the internet creates a whodoneit where none exits.

Some theories are interesting; some are dead on arrival.

mpuryear91

11-17-2005, 08:47 PM

I dont think Ana shot shannon..... on purpose! Shannon was looking for walt and surprised one of the "others". At this point Ana runs up and finds this taking place and shoots at the "other", missing and shooting shannon instead after shannon was stabbed!!!!!!!

noodles11280

11-18-2005, 12:49 AM

carlton cuse says shannon was shot - so all the stab ideas are incorrect -

im with pitchblank on this

cuse states it here:
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1385

passenger27f

11-21-2005, 05:27 PM

AL shot Shannon. This thread is concluded. =)

I think what is more significant in light of this past episode (other 48 days) is that AL and Sayid seem to recognize each other... like AL is actually CIA.

ruhepuls

11-21-2005, 06:48 PM

"The others" did not use guns as much as the wanted to ...... why would they have used precious bullets in a jungle-situation, where they were familair (as opposed to the rest of the flight of flight 0815 ....therefore I think AL was the one, who shot Shannon.

Kell

11-24-2005, 12:09 AM

I dont think ana shot her, but not because of the left/right handed thing.

If you look at a closeup of the wound, Shannon's shirt is slashed as if it was a knife wound. Ana was probably shooting at the attacker.

I am SO glad this is finally over. Hopefully some lessons were learned here.

11-25-2005, 09:50 AM

^^ What, that we should not speculate? or think or talk about what we think we saw?
If I am not way off the mark, that is what these boards are for.

Kell

11-25-2005, 01:17 PM

^^ What, that we should not speculate? or think or talk about what we think we saw?
If I am not way off the mark, that is what these boards are for.

Not at all. But creating a whodonit where there is none because a director chose an intesting shot selection is sad, and hanging onto a dead on arrival theory for weeks is a waste of bandwidth.

11-26-2005, 02:47 PM

Since there is no way to read the directors mind about just what his motives were for a particular shot. We were left to speculate and that is just what we do.

Overshot

11-26-2005, 04:32 PM

The director could have had the scene be Ana Lucia simply walking up within an inch of shannon and shooting her in the face, and then saying, "I'm so glad that I, Ana Lucia, have just shot this blonde girl Shannon in the face with a gun", and THEN also have sayid say, "damn you ana lucia, you have just shot Shannon with a gun!" --- All of this could be shown and there would *still* be people hitting the pipe and coming up with ludicrous theories and buts and what-ifs.

Kell

11-26-2005, 04:41 PM

lostbylost

11-29-2005, 06:40 PM

I think that speculation is good. Prior to there being a definitive answer it's all open to speculation. Once an answer is given then it is time to move on. I had theories in the past that I hung onto until it was proven wrong. This show is based on the audience speculating about what they see. Remember that not everything is as it seems. If everything was so cut and dried there would be no need to come to the Fuselage and discuss individual perceptions. I think that it's great that they have developed a show that sparks the imagination and even greater that they have given us a forum to discuss it.

11-29-2005, 06:45 PM

Overshot

11-29-2005, 07:45 PM

But there must be some geniune base behind any speculation- this scene, shannon getting shot, as a sequence left nothing to be wondered about. ana had a gun and was ready to shoot. shannon came through. shot. shannon is dead. ana looks at shannon, then at sayid with a 'i just shot her by mistake' look on her face.

there was nothing to speculate about here.

11-29-2005, 07:56 PM

Well, obviously other disagree with that.
I did not find it all that clear cut in The Other 48 days not at all.
We were wrong but it was fun to think about.

lostbylost

11-30-2005, 03:38 AM

But there must be some genuine base behind any speculation- this scene, Shannon getting shot, as a sequence left nothing to be wondered about. Ana had a gun and was ready to shoot. Shannon came through. shot. Shannon is dead. Ana looks at Shannon, then at Sayid with a 'i just shot her by mistake' look on her face.

there was nothing to speculate about here.

I respectfully disagree. What would have been a genuine basis to speculate that the "Black Rock" was a 1800's era ship? The only thing that was known at the time was that Danielle used it as some sort of landmark. There was speculation that it was the remnants of a meteorite or some type of magnetic rock. That had no genuine basis as far as what we were told or shown.

The look on AL's face could easily have been that she had seen the vision of Walt and he disappeared. All theories are based on speculation since a theory isn't a fact until proven. The fact that many people debated what had actually happened is enough to show that the scene was not as cut and dried as you would have us believe. In your opinion it was plainly shown and you ended up being right. Other people saw it differently. It was clearly shown during the next episode and the debate and speculation ended.

Kell

12-01-2005, 05:13 PM

I respectfully disagree. What would have been a genuine basis to speculate that the "Black Rock" was a 1800's era ship?

Not an apt comparison.

Overshot

12-01-2005, 07:58 PM

My thoughts exactly.

lostbylost

12-03-2005, 02:28 AM

Why do you think it isn't an apt comparison? What was the genuine basis for a speculation of the Black Rock being a ship?

Sam G

12-08-2005, 09:05 PM

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/who_shot_shannon.html
Hate to pick at an old scab but I just found this site.(no I'm not calling anyone names)

Overshot

12-09-2005, 01:24 PM

Why do you think it isn't an apt comparison? What was the genuine basis for a speculation of the Black Rock being a ship?

because with the little information that was given, the black rock could have been anything, you are exactly right. we had no evidence as to what the rock was save for the fact that it was apparently a certain location on the island. with what they told and -showed- us, it could have been anything- a ship, a mountain, some new form of crack cocaine or black tar heroin... but here in this episode we were shown a clear sequence of events, with not even a hint of some unseen shooter or foul play that was anything other than an accident.

there was no basis for believing or even considering any shooter theory here. it wouldn't even make sense on the television level- why would they make something so obvious and then go back and pull the 180 on the audience a week later in the next episode.... it would just not lend itself to suspending the viewers disbelief, a factor which is crucial to this show. it's just a rule- if you're going to pull a fast one on the show and then say 'A-HA' on the next episode, you have to make damn sure the viewer is going to be able to look back at the previous episode and say, 'ohhhhhh, damn, i've been had. i see it now. heh. clever clever little writer'......

whereas with this episode, 98 percent of the viewers, save for the person who started this thread and the posters who believed in it, if they had turned it around on us the next week i think we all would've collectively pronounced the writing staff to be mentally handicapped.

which they are certainly not.

sorry, i know everyone is sick of this thread, but the person above asked a question that needed a response.

Kell

12-12-2005, 01:09 PM

because with the little information that was given, the black rock could have been anything, you are exactly right. we had no evidence as to what the rock was save for the fact that it was apparently a certain location on the island. with what they told and -showed- us, it could have been anything- a ship, a mountain, some new form of crack cocaine or black tar heroin... but here in this episode we were shown a clear sequence of events, with not even a hint of some unseen shooter or foul play that was anything other than an accident.

there was no basis for believing or even considering any shooter theory here. it wouldn't even make sense on the television level- why would they make something so obvious and then go back and pull the 180 on the audience a week later in the next episode.... it would just not lend itself to suspending the viewers disbelief, a factor which is crucial to this show. it's just a rule- if you're going to pull a fast one on the show and then say 'A-HA' on the next episode, you have to make damn sure the viewer is going to be able to look back at the previous episode and say, 'ohhhhhh, damn, i've been had. i see it now. heh. clever clever little writer'......

whereas with this episode, 98 percent of the viewers, save for the person who started this thread and the posters who believed in it, if they had turned it around on us the next week i think we all would've collectively pronounced the writing staff to be mentally handicapped.

which they are certainly not.

sorry, i know everyone is sick of this thread, but the person above asked a question that needed a response.

Well said.