Once again Kristen is a little off...
According to her spoiler, in this epi we were to find out that the others tortured some of the tailies.

Previously, Eko and the other tailies have made comments describing the others as dangerous unpredictable animals.

Other than Goodwyn, we haven't seen any of the others harm or kill. We have seen the tailees kill at least 3 of the others, 4 if you count Goodwyn.

I'm not sure that I understand the terror that all the tailees seem to exhibit about the others. Yes, I know that they have taken some of the tailees, but still...

Agreed. Assuming Ethan is an Other, he is the only one that has physically hurt anyone. Everyone else was taken, and we don't know what happened.
I kept waiting during that Goodwyn/Ana Lucia scene for him to do something really freakin' crazy once he was found out...but nope.
Weird. Curious to see where the Others plotline goes...

My point exactly:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=608118&postcount=35

They havent really fatally harmed anyone, unless Ethan is an Other.

With the dark Others (seabillies, Ethan) and the light Others (Beige Others..they dont wear dark clothes?)) I'm beginning to believe there are two groups at work here. Only the scary island people in Dark clothes try to kill people, from what I can see.

See I was think that Ethan is/was an other "other" too.

Yeah, I agree. They made out the others to be these seriously scary, creepy people, and so far we haven't seen them do anything seriously scary or creepy.

Yeah, I agree. They made out the others to be these seriously scary, creepy people, and so far we haven't seen them do anything seriously scary or creepy.

Unless they will have another epi that shows what else happened with the Tailaways. They seemed to breeze past what happened the last 48 days. They may show what happend in flashbacks.

are the others related to the 'monster'?

And what about Ana's comment when Micheal said "they took my son!" and she responded "they took a lot of things". At the time, I had assumed that she had fallen in love with Goodwyn and that the Others had killed him.

I would especially after both Eko and Ana killed some of them, they wouldn't seem to be so scary. How supernatural can they be if they can be killed?

They did kill Scott/Steve.

And have kidnapped 9 others is it?

Sounds pretty savage to me.

Yeah, I agree. They made out the others to be these seriously scary, creepy people, and so far we haven't seen them do anything seriously scary or creepy.

Kidnapping children isn't seriously scary or creepy?:frown:

With the dark Others (seabillies, Ethan) and the light Others (Beige Others..they dont wear dark clothes?)) I'm beginning to believe there are two groups at work here. Only the scary island people in Dark clothes try to kill people, from what I can see.

Seems plausible, but I'd find it a bit tedious if we proceed to find out that what we initially thought were the Others were actually the Tailenders, who were infiltratred by the Others, who are actually the treacherous but not murderous Others.

I'm hoping that the Others are a single group who started their raids on the tailies because they were fewer in numbers, and perhaps in a less-desirable location than the "main" group. They discovered that physical attack was a dangerous method (owning mainly to Mr. Eko), so they relied on Ethan's physical abilities when infiltrating the main group.

Not the best theory, but it's all I can come up with at the moment. I just hope we're not in for more splintering of groups and factions....

Don't get me wrong. I thought this was a great episode.
Also, I am the biggest wimp. I refuse to watch horror movies in fear of having night terrors later.

However, thus far, I have found nothing about the others (other than Ethan) scary on Lost. The seabillies weren't scary and the others' kidnapping of the tailees just are not producing the kind of tension that the tailees seem to feel. From what we saw tonight, the others raided their beach camp twice. We didn't see any other contact, so for one thing how do the tailees know that the others are coming? Eko when he's out with Jin, and all of the tailees in the scene prior to the Shannon shooting seem to almost have a sixth sense in knowing that the others are coming. How?

Again, yes, it is terrible that they came and took people away, but I just did not (at least as a viewer) find it scary or suspenseful enough to warrant the terror that they all seemed to feel.

Agreed. Assuming Ethan is an Other, he is the only one that has physically hurt anyone....
what about when goodwin killed that man that everyone thought was the original plant? does that count as physical harm.

If Eko hadn't felt some kind of threat from the others that showed up in the middle of the night, then why would he have killed them?

And maybe one set of Others (the ones w/shoes) and the other set of Others (shoeless), were meant to compete with eachother...survival of the fittest...but with a twist. Maybe one group of Others is soley equiped with thier 5 senses and humanly physical abilites, while the other group of Others has a sixth sense and some kind of wierd paranormal strengths and abilities. There are probably hidden cameras all over the island and some really twisted doctors, scientists, quantum physicists, archeologists, and psychologists are all sitting around calculating random possibilities, effects of human behavior, coping mechanisms and the domino efect of panic and paranoia, why people hide things. While the scientists are locking into the mysteries of human behavior, the Others, the other Others, and the survivors are unaware that they are controling eachothers purpouses.

what about when goodwin killed that man that everyone thought was the original plant? does that count as physical harm.

Why couldn't Nathan AND Goodwin have both been others? Having both infiltrate the group would work as everyone agreed to not remember Nathan on the plane. Possibly sending both as a team to work together. Goodwin may have been supposed to cover for Nathan and be double crossing him. If one failed there was still the other to carry out the work.

Mr. Eko also said the Others didnt leave tracks when they moved about. But in the attacks on the beach at night, they left plenty of footprints. We never saw any evidence that they didnt leave tracks. Perhaps there ARE two distinct groups or "others" existing on the island, with different motives. If they were only taking "Good" people, maybe they are rescuing them and taking them before they can be harmed, etc. Anyway........

Why couldn't Nathan AND Goodwin have both been others? Having both infiltrate the group would work as everyone agreed to not remember Nathan on the plane. Possibly sending both as a team to work together. Goodwin may have been supposed to cover for Nathan and be double crossing him. If one failed there was still the other to carry out the work.


I think this is possible. Nathan was from the same group Ethan was. Goodwin was from
a different, opposing group. I wonder who was giving food to Nathan. Eko?

Yeah, I agree. They made out the others to be these seriously scary, creepy people, and so far we haven't seen them do anything seriously scary or creepy.

-Kidnapping Claire and Charlie
-Hanging Charlie
-Brutally beating Jack a couple of times
-Killing 'Skeve'
-Dragging several people into the jungle in the middle of the night
-Goodwin killing Nathan because he was afraid Ana would figure out he wasn't an 'Other' the next day
-Goodwin's whole demeanor after Ana called him out was pretty creepy to me.

See I was think that Ethan is/was an other "other" too.


The others are weak and can obviously be killed - Ethan, Goodwin...

Maybe the Others work for Dharma?

I'm not sure that I understand the terror that all the tailees seem to exhibit about the others. Yes, I know that they have taken some of the tailees, but still...

You raise a good question. I"m sure there's more to be seen about this matter, although we supposedly have seen the important stuff from "the other 48 days." It's a puzzle.
Maybe there were torture scenes, but they were deleted?
WHY are they so afraid, then? hmm, curious.

Quick question. Remember when Jin saw the body in the woods with Eko. Was that supposed to be Goodwin's body?

I think Dharma is running several experiments about what happens to people suddenly thrown together and fighting for survival. Is it Lord of the Flies time? Or is man in a state of nature more good than bad, as the philosopher Rousseau thought?

This is the sort of thing that committed 70s hippies who've been out of touch for a while might come up with. They are kidnapping those they think most likely to create a utopian society and separating them from the "not good" people, whom they regard as expendable and will kill in order to get the test subjects they want, but whom they aren't interested in totally exterminating otherwise.

There also must be people they found on the island, descendants of those stranded before Dharma set up shop. Perhaps they are using this tribe as the basis of the experiment and just augmenting its numbers. (Zack and his teddy bear are definitely with the tribe now.) They clearly have used the tribe as troops to accomplish their goals, because the Dharmans still know about technology and the supervisors (Goodwin, Ethan)can blend in with new arrivals as the more primitive tribe members cannot.

Cardie

I beleive the Others not leaving tracks is from the night they took the children. Mr. Ecko took off in the jungle right after them, but could not track them.

Ana said "What do you mean you lost them, you went right after them. Or something to that effect.

I think it would be creepy to have a group of people sneak up and kidnap a few of you while you were sleeping. I'd be pretty creeped out. Remember the tailies are normal people, they a re not use to to this stuff.

I'm also starting to think when Ana said they took lots of things.
If she didn't mean their sense of safety and well being.

Sort of like coming home and finding you have been robbed. You no longer feel safe in your own house.

I was begining to think the others were removing the children from the experiment, Goodwin said they were better off (we know the island has electricity and showers somewhere). but then finding out the teddy bear was emma's brother and they were both taken, they are being marched through the jungle still. that doesn't seem like a better place. maybe they were just removed from "the bad" people, since they were on the list of the "good ones".

I think there will be furious debate over what is meant by the good ones and the bad ones. We've discussed whether Locke is "good" or "bad" (BTW, the color of his funky tan shirt is the same as the clothes of the shoeless others), we don't know what Goodwin (good one?) meant by Nathan not being good and the kids being okay now. I think there are opposing groups of Others, one "good" one "bad" but it may mean in some genetic sense (fit for the project or study) and not necessarily good souls. I don't think it means the ones that were left behind were bad souls and how would they know anyway? Goodwin was pretty threatening, and he was supposed to be a good one?

It makes total sense that there would be 2 groups of others. In order for an experiment to work, you have have at least 2 groups on different sides of it, so to speak. So you could monitor the results.

I think there are at least two groups of 'others'. The children, or the ones going around barefoot, and the other group with Goodwin, Ethan, the seabillies, etc. They are maybe running the experiment, or tied in some way. The barefoot others are probably one of their experiments, or else a group they've taught to do whatever they want. When I saw the Army knife, it only backed up what I thought in that the government is also invovled in some way. How else could the island be invisible to the outside world? There's too much technology involved for there not to be a higher power (US government) tied in.

When Jin and Eko was hiding in the bush while the 'scary kids' walked by. He could easily with the help of jin taken those kids out or as hostages. He took out some adult ones, a bunch of kids shouldnt been a match. However since he obviusly didnt, it probably was becouse he recongniced them. Anyways, a reaction of some sort i think should been showed.

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but it's a big clue that the Others knew when and where they were going to crash, hence Goodwin's timing on coming out of the jungle. The same had to have happened with the front end too since Ethan slipped into their group. :undecide:

From the talk that Ana and Goodwin had, I had a feeling that Goodwin didn't want to harm the people they "took." He seemed to be trying to reassure or convince Ana that everyone was okay. He also said they were taking the healthy strong ones - the ones that posed a threat. A threat to what?

Kidnapping children isn't seriously scary or creepy?:frown:

Yikes! Good point. :blush: But since we don't know their intent on taking the children (and heard from Goodwin that the "children are fine), I guess I was expecting something a lot weirder than what happened as well. But maybe I'm just jaded and desensitized. :ohwell:

They did kill Scott/Steve.

And have kidnapped 9 others is it?

Sounds pretty savage to me.
Could it be that these others are trying to protect them from someone (something)? By taking them away, they are helping them?

They did kill Scott/Steve.

And have kidnapped 9 others is it?

Sounds pretty savage to me.
Could it be that these others are trying to protect them from someone (something)? By taking them away, they are helping them?

Kidnapping Claire and Charlie
-Hanging Charlie
-Brutally beating Jack a couple of times
-Killing 'Skeve'
-Dragging several people into the jungle in the middle of the night
-Goodwin killing Nathan because he was afraid Ana would figure out he wasn't an 'Other' the next day
-Goodwin's whole demeanor after Ana called him out was pretty creepy to me.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Ethan and Goodwyn are scary, but not the minions in home-spun cotton.

I also thought it was odd that the girl that AL killed had a knife in her pocket.
Wouldn't it have been out in her hand?

Judging by how seemingly easily Eko and AL were able to kill their attackers, I just don't see these particular others as that dangerous or well prepared for either attacking or defending themselves.

I agree that the Others don't yet seem as scary as they were being built up to be by the little tid bits that were thrown out over the first season and into the second. However, they appear to be organized in their attack pattern, an example would be the way they swooped in while the Tailies were sleeping, surrounded them, and moved around like a pack of wolves. So while they may not necessarily be physically imposing, they have a plan of action and seem to execute it pretty well.

Also I think their clothing is pretty creepy...reminds me of what I pictured the Hassassin wearing for any of those out there who have read The DaVinci Code.

P.S. I am in no way trying to make any connections between DaVinci Code and Lost...just comparing outfits.:biggrin:

kidnapped 9 tailies.
killed nathan.
kidnapped pregnant claire.
hung charlie and left him for dead.
killed sceve.
beat jack to within an inch of his life.
kidnapped 10 year old on open water, and blew up boat that 3 men were on and left them in shark infested waters to fend for themselves.

the others arent dangerous at all.

I beleive the Others not leaving tracks is from the night they took the children. Mr. Ecko took off in the jungle right after them, but could not track them.

Ana said "What do you mean you lost them, you went right after them. Or something to that effect.

I think it would be creepy to have a group of people sneak up and kidnap a few of you while you were sleeping. I'd be pretty creeped out. Remember the tailies are normal people, they a re not use to to this stuff.

I'm also starting to think when Ana said they took lots of things.
If she didn't mean their sense of safety and well being.

Sort of like coming home and finding you have been robbed. You no longer feel safe in your own house.

Exactly, I agree. If you had just survived a horrendous plane crash, drug yourself out of the water onto a foreign beach and a brooding island, THEN while you sleep or even when you aren't, someone is able to infiltrate your group very quietly and snatch people and take off with them before you are aware of what is happening; that is psychological scariness. The survivors are under a great deal of stress, being thrust into a situation where all is uncertain, and now they are not just battling for their survival, but are battling others who may or may not want them to survive. It would take a toll on them, physically, emotionally, psychologically. They live with total uncertainty and that is scary, perhaps not to a viewer, but for a person in that situation it would be terrible. They probably only sleep from exhaustion, not because it's time to go to sleep. Add to this that the tailees are now walking hours a day, probably don't have adequate nutrition, it would begin to take an immense physical toll on them. I find it a creepy and scary situation.

kidnapped pregnant claire.
hung charlie and left him for dead.
killed sceve.
beat jack to within an inch of his life.
kidnapped 10 year old on open water, and blew up boat that 3 men were on and left them in shark infested waters to fend for themselves.

I think you may have missed my point. The above did not happen to the tailees, nor as we know were they aware of what has been going on with the other group of survivors. I have been speaking of the group of others that has been kidnapping people from the tail section. Other than the kidnapping, they have not been portrayed as the savage, dangerous animals that AL, Cindy, Libby, and Eko seem to fear so greatly. My point is that this particular group of others has been built up greatly in previous episodes so that we may have been led to believe they were responsible for killings, maimings, and torture. As far as we now know, they were not.

The Others are extreamly more important than the numbers. JMO So since the beginning of the show which aired over a year ago, it has been centered around these other people inhabiting the island. As for them being overrated or to the importance to the show, not a chance. But I will say this about them. Their pants being cut off at the calfs is ready dumb. So, no props to wardrobe on that.

Maybe there are the 'capri pants others,' the 'Gorton's others,' who knows. Everyone and his brother are now others. All I know is that the scariest thing about Ethan was that he was related to Tom Cruise (who, by the way, knows Others and has studied them).

Could it be that these others are trying to protect them from someone (something)? By taking them away, they are helping them?

Or trying to anyway. That is my assumption. I think there are at least two groups of Others on the island: the scruffy ones in the boat who have no compunction about killing people at any time (and obviously have access to tech and guns), and the ones like Ethan and Goodwin, who seem to be participating in the protection of the "good" members of each group of castaways. Other than Nathan, who Goodwin obviously believed was "not a good person," and Scott, who was part of the group holding the woman Ethan was trying to "rescue" (if Ethan actually did kill Scott, and not say, the Monster or, since the killer came in from the sea, the boat Others), they haven't killed anybody. We have no reason to think any of the 12 that were taken were killed or even harmed, except for the first three whom the Others might think of as a threat. I would imagine that whatever group Ethan and Goodwin are from is composed of the "good" people taken from previous groups of castaways (a Peace Corps mission, a US Army unit, say from WW2, the French group). It's also quite possible that, since Danielle came in on a boat, her child was taken by the boat Others like Walt was.

I don't find it hard to believe that dealing with the boat Others for many years would have the effect of making them as ruthless with perceived enemies as Ana's perception of the "good" Others' actions has made her.

I don't think people are saying that the 'others' are great guys, i just think that when AL said 'you don't know what they're capable of' that we'd see some hideously vicious attacks. Not saying that kidnapping children and killing people is all fine and dandy, but .. its not as bad as what i thought. but then again, we have not seen what they've done with the captives..

I also thought it was odd that the girl that AL killed had a knife in her pocket.
Wouldn't it have been out in her hand?

Judging by how seemingly easily Eko and AL were able to kill their attackers, I just don't see these particular others as that dangerous or well prepared for either attacking or defending themselves.


Ohhh... good catch! :thumbup1:

Judging by how seemingly easily Eko and AL were able to kill their attackers, I just don't see these particular others as that dangerous or well prepared for either attacking or defending themselves.


Didn't look seemingly easy to me in either scene.

in the eko scene you hear the grunting and struggle for a bit before they get there, then see Eko covered in blood and roughed up pretty bad... the struggle having a big enough impact that caused him to arm himself afterwards. It didnt look like it was easy for him to kill them. Looks like theya lmost killed him in the process...

And the ana thing, that small girl smashed ana to the ground... and had Ana not grabbed that rock and bashed the THIN GIRL in the head with it, she probabyl wouldve been hurt herself.


"you dont know what these people are capable of"

Took 2 small young men to make a mess out of a huge muscular grown man...

Took a thin girl to smash Ana to the ground

Dragged 3 full grown adults out of a camp of sleeping people into the night without a sound or leaving a trace.

infilitrated their camp posing as one of thier own

Come back and take 9 of them away, 9 specific ones named on a list they took off that body

All of this happening to some regular poeple who just survived a plane crash onto a weird island.

All this happened and you people can't understand why the tallies are afriad of the others? Nobody ever said they would be scary to us (the viewers)... but put yourself in the shoes of the people on that island and you should be able to see why they are scared.

I agree hoggie and no thanks but I'll just stay right here in my own shoes and watch from afar.

So far the Others have been shown to be organized and sneaky. With the possible exception of Ethan, they don't seem particulary strong or scary. Ruthless maybe, but hardly worth the big build up we've gotten so far. Rousseau said that when the others come that the Middies could run, hide or die. Well the Tailies, who are less numerous and less well armed, have managed to kill four Others so far with just sticks, stones, and their bare hands. That is hardly the level of shock and awe I was expecting given the huge build up. I am thoroughly unimpressed by the Others thus far.

With the dark Others (seabillies, Ethan) and the light Others (Beige Others..they dont wear dark clothes?)) I'm beginning to believe there are two groups at work here. Only the scary island people in Dark clothes try to kill people, from what I can see.

Well...there is a recurring theme of dark vs. light.

in the eko scene you hear the grunting and struggle for a bit before they get there, then see Eko covered in blood and roughed up pretty bad... the struggle having a big enough impact that caused him to arm himself afterwards. It didnt look like it was easy for him to kill them. Looks like theya lmost killed him in the process...

Yes, I agree with you that it was not easy for Eko to kill them; however, I don't believe that the effort on his part was physical, but emotional. I believe that the blood that you see on him is not his own, but the blood of the two others that he killed. The impression that I had in that scene is that he actually killed them very violently (not just one quick bump to the head with a rock), I think he may have kept on hitting them, and that is one of the big reasons why this affected him so much emotionally.

Keep in mind that the grunting and struggle noises that we heard might have been the others being pummelled to a pulp. Also, I don't remember at any time seeing Eko with any wounds, and we did see him in his tribal warrior getup very soon after this scene. He was even topless (if one can refer to a man in such a way) and there were no wounds.

Quick question. Remember when Jin saw the body in the woods with Eko. Was that supposed to be Goodwin's body?

Yes it was, Eko explains his name was Goodwin to Jin while walking through the jungle. My only question is why did Eko seem so sorry or bad about his body?

Also thinking back to abandoned;
Why did the loss of Cindy get tied to Ana-lucia? Eko said that this one was on her, did everyone blame Eko for the loss of the kids?

I'm honestly surprised that no one has commented on how different the landscapes are the two episodes we see goodwins dead body. one of them is almost in an open area, but the other is in a jungle. I know this is just production and doesnt mean anything, but my first thought when he died was "did they move his body or something, because it wasnt over there when i frst saw it".

Oh well, I can let it slide.

I'm honestly surprised that no one has commented on how different the landscapes are the two episodes we see goodwins dead body. one of them is almost in an open area, but the other is in a jungle. I know this is just production and doesnt mean anything, but my first thought when he died was "did they move his body or something, because it wasnt over there when i frst saw it".

Oh well, I can let it slide.

It could have been moved by Ana-Lucia searching his body(more lists?) or if she brought back the rest of the tailies they may have moved it. I would have to assume she had to have brought them to see the body to explain it.

One thing that bothers me is that the tailies only know someone has been tipping off the others to their profiles and locations but they don't know who, but it is assumed after Goodwin dies that everyone just goes on following her as leader.

Don't know about anyone else but if it was me and I had someone that I knew had just tortured someone(Nathan in the pit) who died suddenly and mysteriously, come back alone after leaving with someone else and she is saying that he was the bad guy and now he's dead. I would be a little hesitant believe them.

In times of stress most people are pessimistic, it's human nature

Rousseau said that when the others come that the Middies could run, hide or die. Well the Tailies, who are less numerous and less well armed, have managed to kill four Others so far with just sticks, stones, and their bare hands. That is hardly the level of shock and awe I was expecting given the huge build up. I am thoroughly unimpressed by the Others thus far.

Well that could have been Rousseau's impression of the others because they took Alex. Be she only hears them and has never had direct contact with them herself. So she may just be scared of them (and a bit of a wingnut) but does not really know what they are capable of or how easy they are to beat.

Well, they are kidnapping, but they are not killing the children as we know.

I did expect them to be much more violent, sending all their masses against the few tallies. Not sneak attacks/dragaways while the Tallies are sleeping.

They way Ana Lucia portrayed them as 'animals" had me convined they were much worse and unbeatable.

Kidnapping children isn't seriously scary or creepy?:frown:

Yup. The Others who've been harassing the tailaways are wussity wusses. Given how freaked out AL and the others have been, I was hoping for at least a little dismemberment (keeping with the theme of missing limbs) and maybe some nice implied cannibalism.

I think there are at least two groups of 'others'. The children, or the ones going around barefoot, and the other group with Goodwin, Ethan, the seabillies, etc. They are maybe running the experiment, or tied in some way. The barefoot others are probably one of their experiments, or else a group they've taught to do whatever they want.

This is exactly what I think--although I'm not sure that Ethan is still tied with Goodwin/islebilly Others. The fact that he was on his own trying to retrieve Claire implies that he is either the only representative of still ANOTHER faction, or that he'd done something that made his group cut him loose. (Perhaps by losing Claire in the first place, hence his desperation to get her back.)

One thing that bothers me is that the tailies only know someone has been tipping off the others to their profiles and locations but they don't know who, but it is assumed after Goodwin dies that everyone just goes on following her as leader.

Don't know about anyone else but if it was me and I had someone that I knew had just tortured someone(Nathan in the pit) who died suddenly and mysteriously, come back alone after leaving with someone else and she is saying that he was the bad guy and now he's dead. I would be a little hesitant believe them.

In times of stress most people are pessimistic, it's human nature

Probably Cindy the flight attendant vouched for Ana's being on the plane.

Or by that time the Tailaways were so downtrodden that they'd have continued following AL if she had decided to randomly cut off THEIR fingers.

I thought it was obvious there is 2 sets of others, the others that took Walt let off black smoke to show that they were coming, the french girl also said when the others come for alex they let off black smoke, but when the others come for the tailies
there was no black smoke.

So why would the others (if they were the same group) let off black smoke to indicate
they were coming for 1 boy and not when they were coming for 9?

The tailies were in a different location on the island. Maybe there was black smoke that they coudn't see. I also thought there was something significant in Goodwin right away trying to start a signal fire. I thought he was trying to alert the Others to their location to come and get them. Only after, to earn their trust back, did Goodwin suggest they put the fire out, but it didn't matter by that point.

Goodwin was kind of a letdown. After all, he let himself get his *** kicked by a girl. :biggrin:

I was surprised that the Others really did just look like normal people wearing potato sacks for clothing. That one that Eko killed the first time around was kind of cute, too.

I was surprised that the Others really did just look like normal people wearing potato sacks for clothing. That one that Eko killed the first time around was kind of cute, too.

My theory is that the Dharmans arrived and found a tribe of people, descended from the survivors of many past wrecks, that had survived for generations on the island. Before things got sinister, the sincere and utopian Dharmans probably decided that they wanted to observe them as a unique social experiment, and they gave them useful stuff and won their trust.

Then, more sinister powers from Hanso started bringing people to the island on purpose for much more sinister experiments, but they convinced the Dharma volunteers (for whom this was just a continuation of the Peace Corps) that certain people must be protected from the sinister experiments, so they had them use the tribesmen to cull out whoever they didn't need, on the excuse that these people could be integrated into the utopian tribe, but the others were "not good" and could be killed if they got in the way of the rescues. Gradually more sinister folks started showing up as Dharma agents. So the supervisory group would include Ethan, Goodwin and the Seabillies (also the whispering black smoke Others that Danielle fears.) They won't hesitate to break your neck. The tribe of abductors is not yet, based on any solid evidence, guilty of any violence against those they abduct/rescue, except for the seizure itself.

Cardie

Danielle, Eko and AL built the Others up into mythic invincibility status.

"you have three choices, run, hide or die"
"you have no idea what these people are capable of. they will not be found if they don't want to be."
"they're smart, they're animals. and if you think one gun and one bullet is going to stop them. think again."

So now that we've seen they're just regular people when isolated, it is a bit of a let down. Their strength is in their organization. But if the tailies joined up with the rest of the group and they all get themselvs armed with the arsenal from the hatch, the Others don't seem much of a threat anymore.

Also thinking back to abandoned;
Why did the loss of Cindy get tied to Ana-lucia? Eko said that this one was on her, did everyone blame Eko for the loss of the kids?

I believe it was actually Ana that told Eko that Cindy was on his hands. Her reasoning being that Eko refused to leave Sawyer behind and took their party through the jungle in order to give them a shortcut. She didn't want to take Sawyer, as he would have slowed them down, and she didn't want to go through the jungle because that is where the "others" are.

Danielle, Eko and AL built the Others up into mythic invincibility status.

"you have three choices, run, hide or die"
"you have no idea what these people are capable of. they will not be found if they don't want to be."
"they're smart, they're animals. and if you think one gun and one bullet is going to stop them. think again."

So now that we've seen they're just regular people when isolated, it is a bit of a let down. Their strength is in their organization. But if the tailies joined up with the rest of the group and they all get themselvs armed with the arsenal from the hatch, the Others don't seem much of a threat anymore.

Monsoon Season, you and I are thinking along the same lines.
I just don't get it! What does she mean that a gun is not going to stop them?!
She and Eko already killed three with rocks.

If they're so frightened of the others, I can't wait for their reactions when they experience the security system...

I really don't want to say this because I think the writers are wonderful, but maybe did different writers write individual episodes and not coordinate well enough with each other?!
The comments made by the tailees in "abandoned" just don't seem to add up with what we've seen in last night's episode.

l
I just don't get it! What does she mean that a gun is not going to stop them?!
She and Eko already killed three with rocks.

They have killed some of the others but still...they keep coming and taking away more of the survivors. So, shooting a few of them doesn't stop the kidnappings which happen when they least expect it and rather randomly. It would scare the crap out of me if I were one of the tailies.

I think you may have missed my point. The above did not happen to the tailees, nor as we know were they aware of what has been going on with the other group of survivors. I have been speaking of the group of others that has been kidnapping people from the tail section. Other than the kidnapping, they have not been portrayed as the savage, dangerous animals that AL, Cindy, Libby, and Eko seem to fear so greatly. My point is that this particular group of others has been built up greatly in previous episodes so that we may have been led to believe they were responsible for killings, maimings, and torture. As far as we now know, they were not.

Yes, my thoughts exactly!

All this happened and you people can't understand why the tallies are afriad of the others? Nobody ever said they would be scary to us (the viewers)... but put yourself in the shoes of the people on that island and you should be able to see why they are scared.

Well, "this person" isn't saying I can't understand why they're afraid...I'm saying that, so far, I don't think that we the viewers have been shown the full reasons why the Tailies go in such morbid dread of the Others. I'm saying there has to be more than we've seen so far, and I want to know what else there is, what else our friends have seen. Yes, they seem to be very strong, organized, all the other things mentioned here. And it's scary to have children kidnapped. But both Ana and Eko were able to fight them off, and they're better prepared now.
So it's not unrealistic to believe that--like most of LOST--there's more here than we've been shown.

The thing to keep in mind here is Misdirection. It's like a magic act, this wonderful show called LOST.

As Jake said in The Dark Tower: This is what I believe. :-)

Speaking for myself, if I were in their position I wouldn't be scared so much as royally pissed off. If they had taken twelve of us and disappeared like ghosts or if they had overpowered us, then I might be scared. Heck, if the Tailies had had someone (other than Goodwin, since that wouldn't have helped) on guard then maybe they wouldn't have lost the group of nine.

Did anyone notice that the very first Other we see right before the kids are taken looks to be dripping? Did they come from the water? There is what appears to be a drip of water coming off his ratty kapri pants leg.

Monsoon Season, you and I are thinking along the same lines.
I just don't get it! What does she mean that a gun is not going to stop them?!
She and Eko already killed three with rocks.

If they're so frightened of the others, I can't wait for their reactions when they experience the security system...

I really don't want to say this because I think the writers are wonderful, but maybe did different writers write individual episodes and not coordinate well enough with each other?!
The comments made by the tailees in "abandoned" just don't seem to add up with what we've seen in last night's episode.

I couldn't agree more! Not too mention she killed a 4th with a stick, that's not too bad considering. I thought that they had been built up a bit too much before we even saw them, the fact was, whatever they came with was going to have trouble living up to those descriptions. And it was solidified for me when we saw that group of bums on the boat at the end of last season. It was like, "That's it? They're just, people?"

It was like, "That's it? They're just, people?"

I am actually relieved they are just people..hahaha. I was afraid there would be some supernatural elements added into the mix, like ghosts or some crazy beings that can run and jump and kill better than normal people. I'm glad they didnt get all super cheesy with it and basically made the Others exactly what they were - other people.

Still, that doesnt explain Danielle's fear of them. She had a rifle which she can obviously use decently (and she can make booby traps too), so I dont really get why she was so afraid of them. Maybe these arent the same people she was referring to.

Who knows..haha

I think the element they might be going for is Man's inhumanity to Man. Thinking back on Goodwin as an Other, is seems like his ideas, or rational he tried to convince the tailies of was not of their best interest. And by the Others being so much like the people who are LOST, it's like, mirror image of what they can become. Or maybe I need to put the pipe down.

Heck, if the Tailies had had someone (other than Goodwin, since that wouldn't have helped) on guard then maybe they wouldn't have lost the group of nine.

That is a very good point! Why didn't they organize sentry duty? That's something that our original group thought of right away when they realized that Ethan was a threat. I would think with Ana's SPOILER ALERT! .................................................. ...

LAPD background, this is something that she would have thought of, as Locke and Sayid did.

I think the element they might be going for is Man's inhumanity to Man. Thinking back on Goodwin as an Other, is seems like his ideas, or rational he tried to convince the tailies of was not of their best interest. And by the Others being so much like the people who are LOST, it's like, mirror image of what they can become. Or maybe I need to put the pipe down.

Yes, there is the old saying that one man's utopia is another's idea of hell.

Or maybe I need to put the pipe down.

With this show, its probably best that you hold onto it..haha.

I too wondered why they didn't post a guard!
But then again, maybe they did after the first night's kidnappings, and then when nothing happened for 2 weeks, they let down their guard? Yet they still carried their stakes, spears, whatever. I don't know...I think that I'd have posted a guard, to keep away animals if nothing else. Especially out there on an exposed beach.


The comments made by the tailees in "abandoned" just don't seem to add up with what we've seen in last night's episode.
My thoughts exactly.

Did anyone notice that the very first Other we see right before the kids are taken looks to be dripping?
Thanks for mentioning that. I thought so too, but couldn't be sure.

There's some speculation that there is more than one group of "Others", that the boat people may have been different from the ones we've seen walking thru the jungle barefoot.
What are your thoughts about that?
There are SO many threads on this board that it's impossible for me to keep up with what theory goes where, but this seems like a likely spot.

I too wondered why they didn't post a guard!
But then again, maybe they did after the first night's kidnappings, and then when nothing happened for 2 weeks, they let down their guard? Yet they still carried their stakes, spears, whatever. I don't know...I think that I'd have posted a guard, to keep away animals if nothing else. Especially out there on an exposed beach.


My thoughts exactly.


Thanks for mentioning that. I thought so too, but couldn't be sure.

There's some speculation that there is more than one group of "Others", that the boat people may have been different from the ones we've seen walking thru the jungle barefoot.
What are your thoughts about that?
There are SO many threads on this board that it's impossible for me to keep up with what theory goes where, but this seems like a likely spot.

Add me to the list. It looked like the pants were wet.

Easy reason for the dripping pants, could the others have come through a stream or creek on the way to the kidnapping?

or he was just peeing

Quick question. Remember when Jin saw the body in the woods with Eko. Was that supposed to be Goodwin's body?

Yes!! and remember how when Ana Lucia came back and they asked where Goodwin was, she never said that she killed him and was very dismissive. I have the feeling that the rest of them think that Goodwin was killed by an Other. Which means the tail enders (minus Ana Lucia) believe that The Others are capable of murdering people, which isn't the case (so far).

The Others , IMO, have lived up to their reputation so far. I think people expected more but what we saw in this episode was consistant with with what we've been told. There does seem to be some sort of caste system but we don't really know anything substantial about them to say for sure. Their clothes simply could have been raiding outfits, sanitized as to not reveal anything if they are caught,captured or killed.

What I don't get is if Goodwin and his pals are okay then why not simpley introduce himself, tell everyone what's going on and take them somewhere safe until he could get them off of the island? If Goodwin is overseeing some kind of social experiment then why not get the Tailies out of the way?

We don't know enough yet but I hope we learn more. Everybody's afraid of people you can't see, the writers need to give us a better reason to be scared of the Others.

The Others , IMO, have lived up to their reputation so far. I think people expected more but what we saw in this episode was consistant with with what we've been told. We were told a group of 40+ with multiple firearms would all die if they faced the Others (remember three choices? Run, hide, or die). From what we've seen of the Others success on the Tailies side hasn't been unblemished (at least four deaths), and they just had sticks to defend themselves with!

And what gets me is that AL passed off Goodwin's dead body as if the Others had killed him when all along it was her that killed him! She hasn't told anyone the truth about his death. Looks like she's playing on the fears of the tailies to keep them under her rule. As long as they think the Others killed Goodwin, they'll follow her. Imagine what's going to happen when they find out she killed him!

We were told a group of 40+ with multiple firearms would all die if they faced the Others (remember three choices? Run, hide, or die). From what we've seen of the Others success on the Tailies side hasn't been unblemished (at least four deaths), and they just had sticks to defend themselves with!

Everyone is forgetting that Danielle's "Run, hide or die" warning was just a ploy to make it easier for her to snatch Aaron. She'd never seen an Other in her life and didn't know anything about their powers.

Cardie

We don't know that entire incident was set up on her part. Charlie seems to think so, but Sayid isn't convinced. The whole thing seems overly complicated. What was she going to do if they entire group had immediately up and walked to the caves and holed up for several days? What was her plan then? How did Danielle know Claire would still be on the beach after her field trip to the Black Rock?

She claims to have never saw the Others. She claims they're carriers of the sickness. She claims they took Alex. She claims they will wipe the survivors out. She claims a lot about them. It seems odd that she's used traps to defend herself all these years and not once has she seen a corpse. She encountered Claire somewhere while she was missing, so either:
Ethan isn't an Other.
Danielle is an Other herself.
Claire escaped on her own and bumped into Danielle without getting skewered.
Danielle rescued her.Am I overlooking an option here? Even if Danielle is over-hyping the Others, what was the excuse for Ana-Lucia making them out to be the worst thing this side of a Predator movie?