Does Goodwin killing Nathan remind you of the way Charlie killed Ethan? It seemed like because Nathan was caught Goodwin had to kill him before he gave anything away, like it was understood it had to be that way. I wonder if there was some hypnotic suggestion or instruction to Charlie that if Ethan got caught Charlie would have to kill him? Is that why Ethan specifically came to Charlie and said I want YOU to bring her back. Was that in case something went wrong he could be eliminated? Do you think there's a connection?

Good question. Even after being told a 100 times that they wanted Ethan a live Charlie still killed him.

Charlie killed Ethan out of anger, so there's a major difference there.

Charlie killed Ethan out of anger, so there's a major difference there.

He might have. He certainly had that motivation but there is still speculation as to why he killed Ethan when he did and how he handled a gun so well.

Charlie killed Ethan out of anger, so there's a major difference there.


Did he? We don't know that as fact.

WTF? Charlie "handled a gun well"? He killed Ethan at point blank range. Did not require a sharpshooter sniper.

We all have seen time and time again how Charlie is concerning Claire. And now he's being the same way concerning Aaron.

Of course Charlie killed Ethan out of Jelousy and Anger. Not much thought required to figure that one out. Ethan hurt Claire, and Claire is Charlies girl.

Now it's easy to see with Goodman's strength how Ethan did what he did to Steve... Or was it Scott? Dude!

I personally think that is a stretch... I don't think Goodwin killed Nathan cause he was caught. Nathan being caught would imply that Nathan was an others. I'm not convinced he was.

I wrote in another thread that ana's killing of Goodwin was more of a parallel to Charlie killing Ethan... but more in the sense that torture *may* have yielded more information from the captured "others" but oops, too late, they're dead :P

maybe they should get together, charlie and ana, and breed an army of other-killers. in a few generations they could potentially rid the island of its troubles once and for all...

I wrote in another thread that ana's killing of Goodwin was more of a parallel to Charlie killing Ethan... but more in the sense that torture *may* have yielded more information from the captured "others" but oops, too late, they're dead.

That's interesting too, I like that. When Ana told Eko "this one is on you" after Cindy disappeared I think she felt responsible for the whole Goodwin infiltration thing when she suspected him pretty early on but didn't confront him right away. Maybe she also felt responsible for killing him before they could learn anything. Very nice!

WTF? Charlie "handled a gun well"? He killed Ethan at point blank range. Did not require a sharpshooter sniper.


Its NOT that he hit his target. Its the fact that someone handling a 9mm for the first time is normally not used to the recoil and the suceeding shots usually go 'wild'. If Charlie had truly not used a gun before he not only would have hit Ethan he would have also sprayed bullets into the circle of people standing around them. He held the gun correctly and absorbed the recoil. There is more to it than point and shoot.

This reminded me more of how Scott was killed...as in his neck was broken. If nothing else it tells me that whoever killed Scott killed him in the same manner as Nathan was killed. Logic points to the others.

I do believe Charlie is going through a dark time but I dont' buy that he is evil. At the most he might be unwittingly under their influence but I don't believe he is doing anything deliberately for them.

I do believe Charlie is going through a dark time but I dont' buy that he is evil. At the most he might be unwittingly under their influence but I don't believe he is doing anything deliberately for them.

I don't either, but I do think TPTB are keeping open the possibility that he is under someone's control until they figure out where are they are going to go with the story. They tend to leave alot of possibilities open until they pick one and go with it and the rest turn out to be red herrings (but great for endless discussion :) )

What makes you think Nathan was an "Other"????

I don't believe he was on the plane. So he was one "Other" but I think there are many groups of others. Not the same group as Goodwin, but the same as Ethan.

Charlies was almost a crime of passion and revenge, no brainwashing here

Im thinking that Ethan was like Nathan, we are assuming he is the bad guy, as they suspected Nathan was. Ethan and Nathan both came from Canada or so they say, both weren't on the passenger list, I think they were friends somehow, and possibly Ethan while he spent so much time in the jungle alone collecting wood, etc, could have been brainwashed to bring Claire to the "others". So much amnesia with Charlie and Claire, they can't recall what happened while they were missing. Charlie only refers to "THEY only wanted Claire" when he comes back, in a trance like state. He never said Ethan wanted Claire. Now when Ethan comes to Charlie, since it was those three who original left together in the jungle, after her false labor, his demeanor is different like Charlie's, earlier episode, he was compassionate and concerned about Claire when Charlie told him to get Jack, if he had such strength, why the charade of going for Jack, he would have popped Charlie's neck right then and taken her. I thinking perhaps, a Goodwin type character is still with the losties, maybe Steve? Scott's neck was broke like Nathan's, perhaps he wasn't " a Good person".

I think charlie killed ethan out of anger for snatching claire and for almost killing him. I've never shot a gun before, but i think the above explaination that it would be difficult to manage a 9mm w/o harming others sounds very reasonable. Maybe ethan had drugged charlie and claire and that's why they can't remember. I thought that the similarities between ethan and nathan were a little too obvious, perhaps a red herring?
I don't think that charlie is under the 'others' control. but as with anything in this show, who can really be sure..

But i do think that nathan was a bit suspicious, especially because the flight attendant didn't recognize him. I'm going to watch it again and verify that nathan did or did not come out of the water.

Charlies was almost a crime of passion and revenge, no brainwashing here

DIABOLO and ELFDREAM know I have been on the Charlie is evil kick for months now.

Don't easily dismiss the fact that Charlie was determined to kill Ethan and I am not convinced for a crush he has on a girl he met 10 days before???

I will always be on Charlie and hopefully vindicated down the road....

Yes..we know that and have no problem with people who hold that theory. I just don't see it. If you saw Charlie's flashback it ties in neatly with why he wanted to take care of Claire. It was to prove that he could...remember the flashbacks reveal to us why the characters act the way the do on the island and I think Charlie's flashback explains his actions. However I am open to his being brainwashed or something but not out and out 'evil' or on the side of the 'others' or anything like that.

Didn't Goodwin say to Nathen. If she cuts of your finger and you still say you were on the plane, she is going to beleive you? Isn't that why he killed him? Not because Nathen was an Other.

Does Goodwin killing Nathan remind you of the way Charlie killed Ethan? It seemed like because Nathan was caught Goodwin had to kill him before he gave anything away, like it was understood it had to be that way. I wonder if there was some hypnotic suggestion or instruction to Charlie that if Ethan got caught Charlie would have to kill him? Is that why Ethan specifically came to Charlie and said I want YOU to bring her back. Was that in case something went wrong he could be eliminated? Do you think there's a connection?


Why are you speculating on why Goodwin killed Nathan?? Goodwin TOLD Anna why he killed Nathan - he believed that she was going to start torturing Nathan and when Nathan did not start spilling his guts about the others Anna would start thinking that Nathan was not an other and then start looking for another suspect. The fact that Goodwin KNEW that Nathan would not crack is because he knew that Nathan was not an OTHER.

Have you ever fired a 9mm? You seem to have enough knowledge to know how to handle one, even if you never had. Charlie might have picked up his "knowledge" from watching TV or movies. Or maybe he HAS fired a gun before. Lots of people who have not evil intent have fired guns. It doesn't mean anything just because he can handle a gun.

Um..I'm not one of the "Charlie is evil' cheerleaders. He may have had a very good reason for knowing how to fire a 9mm.

But to answer your question..my husband was a certified NRA instructor. I know a little bit about firearms.

Nathan's death was not the same as Ethan's, but, rather the same as Scott/Steve's. It was done as a matter of course, further following the killer's plan. It is meant to show that the 'others' have no regard for human life,other than those of their own kind, perhaps, and are exceedingly ruthless.

And, I believe Nathan was on the plane. Ana questioned him because he had a 2 hour bathroom break on the beach, and, later, he said he was in the plane bathroom for 2 hours. Dude had toilet issues.

The Canadian thing was classic misdirection.

Im thinking that Ethan was like Nathan, we are assuming he is the bad guy, as they suspected Nathan was. Ethan and Nathan both came from Canada or so they say, both weren't on the passenger list, I think they were friends somehow, and possibly Ethan while he spent so much time in the jungle alone collecting wood, etc, could have been brainwashed to bring Claire to the "others". So much amnesia with Charlie and Claire, they can't recall what happened while they were missing. Charlie only refers to "THEY only wanted Claire" when he comes back, in a trance like state. He never said Ethan wanted Claire. Now when Ethan comes to Charlie, since it was those three who original left together in the jungle, after her false labor, his demeanor is different like Charlie's, earlier episode, he was compassionate and concerned about Claire when Charlie told him to get Jack, if he had such strength, why the charade of going for Jack, he would have popped Charlie's neck right then and taken her. I thinking perhaps, a Goodwin type character is still with the losties, maybe Steve? Scott's neck was broke like Nathan's, perhaps he wasn't " a Good person".

Yes I herd that they both were from Canada, which is interesting. Ethan was NOT on the passenger list, but it was never said Nathan was not on the list, only that no one remebered seeing him on the plane, the tailies did not have the list Hurley did on the other side of the island.

Why are you speculating on why Goodwin killed Nathan?? Goodwin TOLD Anna why he killed Nathan - he believed that she was going to start torturing Nathan and when Nathan did not start spilling his guts about the others Anna would start thinking that Nathan was not an other and then start looking for another suspect. The fact that Goodwin KNEW that Nathan would not crack is because he knew that Nathan was not an OTHER.

Thank God someone else is paying attention, Good Post.