I believe he was, and I believe Goodwin killed him because he knew Nathan would talk if Ana threatened to cut off his finger. When Goodwin went to let Nathan out, I got the feeling they knew one another. We can't forget that Nathan disappeared into the jungle for two hours "to use the bathroom" and no one saw him on the plane that he explained away with by saying he was 'in the bathroom". Also, when he said he was from Canada, it seemed like he thought about it a moment and that just came to him....like he had been trained to say that. Could Nathan and Ethan have been brothers? They did resemble each other. Granted, he did ask Goodwin where the beach was, but if he was one of the lesser others, the group not really running things, maybe they are kept fairly sheltered and he really didn't know how to find his way to the beach.

I don't think that Nathan was one of them, but at this point the issue seems irrelevant. He's dead and according to the creators

Once you die on the Island you don't come back.

Thus the issue of whether he was an others doesn't seem important. However, I can see your point. Possible, but if they were both others, then Goodwin just lets him go back to the others and continues with his part of their plan. Whether he kills and disposes of the body or lets him run away, it serves the same purpose to get Ana Lucia thinking that they had been found. If they both were others then they aren't probably going to kill each other since their numbers are limited to begin with.

Nah, the fact that Nathan asks Goodwin which way the beach is tells you that he wasnt an other.

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll just quickly mention that I thought there was a striking similarity in the circumstances when Goodwin killed Nathan and when Charlie killed Ethan. Both were in the position of having been found out and could divulge information but were prevented from doing so.

Nathan was not an Other.

Goodwin said that he killed Nathan because if Ana did something like cut off Nathan's finger and he still didn't confess to being an Other that she would begin to believe him and then start to suspect other people. Why would Goodwin kill him and get rid of him so that the tail-enders thought he escaped if he didn't want to hide the fact that Nathan wasn't really an Other? He could have just let Nathan go if he was an Other and told him to leave and not come back. Why kill one of his own that he just helped escape? The answer is that he wouldn't. He killed Nathan to make Ana and the other tail-enders believe that Nathan really was the mole.

Nah, I don't think he was an Other. It's very possible for him to have been on the plane and no one remember him. I know when I've flown, I don't recall everyone who was on the plane. The whole 2 hours to use the bathroom, I would guess he went to use the bathroom and got sidetracked looking around.

I took the whole thing with Nathan as showing everyone what kind of person that Ana is. After last night's episode and watching

the preview that shows how she reacts to Sayid and killing Shannon

she seems like a natural born dictator.

Although when asked about why he wasn't seen on the plane, he said he was in the bathroom. The whole time????

HUh? How was Charlie "found out"?

Goodwin killed Nathan because he knew the rest of the group would realize Nathan was on flight 815, not an other, and continue to investigate. They would have realized Goodwin was the spy / plant (Ana Lucia finally did) so Goodwin killed Nathan to prevent his cover being blown.
I dont see any parallel between Charlie and Nathan-or EThan-Charlie was never perceived to be an "other". Hurley is the one that suspected Ethan Rom was an other-you would think Rim would go after Hugo to protect his "cover", not charlie

HUh? How was Charlie "found out"?

Goodwin killed Nathan because he knew the rest of the group would realize Nathan was on flight 815, not an other, and continue to investigate. They would have realized Goodwin was the spy / plant (Ana Lucia finally did) so Goodwin killed Nathan to prevent his cover being blown.
I dont see any parallel between Charlie and Nathan-or EThan-Charlie was never perceived to be an "other". Hurley is the one that suspected Ethan Rom was an other-you would think Rim would go after Hugo to protect his "cover", not charlie

I'm not talking about Ethan killing to protect his cover, the parallel I see is with both Ethan and Nathan being killed as soon as they were suspected fo something so they couldn't divulge information.

What information did Nathan have? Nothing! He was saying all along that he wasn't the Other. He was killed by Goodwin so that Ana and the other tail-enders would go on thinking that Nathan was in fact the other and had escaped.

Was Nathan one of the ones in the bathroom looking for drugs that Charlie might have stashed away? (not knowing that he hadn't done it yet?) Remember the scene where the flight attendant was talking to a man or a couple of men) before the crash, was Nathan one of those men?

Nathan was a bit strange. I thought he was the other lostaway's "ethan" early on. The show's creators wanted you to believe that. I told my husband I thought he looked similar to ethan. And what was he doing in the jungle for 2 hours! What a bathroom break.

Was Nathan one of the ones in the bathroom looking for drugs that Charlie might have stashed away? (not knowing that he hadn't done it yet?) Remember the scene where the flight attendant was talking to a man or a couple of men) before the crash, was Nathan one of those men?

Doubtful. Charlie was in the bathroom in the nose of the plane when it broke up and crashed. Nathan was in the tail section. He claimed to be in the bathroom. They were in either end of the plane. Charlie didn't plant the drugs until just before the crash. He thought the flight attendants were going to bust him. It is unrelated that both of them happened to be in the bathrooms at the same time.

I'm not talking about Ethan killing to protect his cover, the parallel I see is with both Ethan and Nathan being killed as soon as they were suspected fo something so they couldn't divulge information.


The similarities are between the way Nathan was killed and the way Scott was killed. They both had their necks broken. Whoever killed Scott used the same method as the 'other' Goodwin. I am assuming an 'other' which is Ethan...killed Scott.

What information did Nathan have? Nothing! He was saying all along that he wasn't the Other. He was killed by Goodwin so that Ana and the other tail-enders would go on thinking that Nathan was in fact the other and had escaped.

I could be wrong, but I think they are meaning any information that *we the viewers* could gain from having an Other around full-time (info about The Others). They were killed off, before the Losties (and us) could gain more insight into who they really are, and what they are doing...

IDK. Maybe pacejunkie meant "Goodwin" instead of "Nathan". Then that would make sense.

I believe he was, and I believe Goodwin killed him because he knew Nathan would talk if Ana threatened to cut off his finger. When Goodwin went to let Nathan out, I got the feeling they knew one another. We can't forget that Nathan disappeared into the jungle for two hours "to use the bathroom" and no one saw him on the plane that he explained away with by saying he was 'in the bathroom". Also, when he said he was from Canada, it seemed like he thought about it a moment and that just came to him....like he had been trained to say that. Could Nathan and Ethan have been brothers? They did resemble each other. Granted, he did ask Goodwin where the beach was, but if he was one of the lesser others, the group not really running things, maybe they are kept fairly sheltered and he really didn't know how to find his way to the beach.

It helps if you watch the entire episode - Goodwin TOLD Anna why he killed nathan. He told her that once she started torturing Nathan she would realize that he was not an OTHER because he would continue to insist he wasn't. Goodwin had to remove him prior to that so that Anna did not start looking for the real infiltrator in the group.

Nathan was not an Other.

Goodwin said that he killed Nathan because if Ana did something like cut off Nathan's finger and he still didn't confess to being an Other that she would begin to believe him and then start to suspect other people. Why would Goodwin kill him and get rid of him so that the tail-enders thought he escaped if he didn't want to hide the fact that Nathan wasn't really an Other? He could have just let Nathan go if he was an Other and told him to leave and not come back. Why kill one of his own that he just helped escape? The answer is that he wouldn't. He killed Nathan to make Ana and the other tail-enders believe that Nathan really was the mole.

This series of events and having rewatched the episode make me think that there are two sets of "others" on the island besides losties. I believe that Nathan and Ethan belong to one set, and Goodwin to the other set. Let's look at the two and how they shape up.

Ethan/Nathan:

-Name Similarity
-Both from Canada (sounded very much like a pre-chosen response, Canada would be an ideal generic answer based on there speech and race)
-Nathan wouldn't respond to AL's answer, and the answers he did give weren't too fulfilling. He said he was in the bathroom (an excuse he later uses on the island). And his background story didn't have anything to do with his time on the plane. If he was on the plane he could have begun answering any number of detailed questions, what time/place the plane left from, where he was sitting on the plane, etc, but he didn't. If he really was on the plane he would have been able to convince AL, but he didn't even put that much effort into it, even when in the pit w/o food.
-Nathan's 2 hours going to the bathroom in the jungle. If he had gone on a nature walk, why not just say it.
-Nathan did make suggestions all consistent with helping the others capture them.
-Generally beady eyed creepy vibe from both.

How we know Nathan & Goodwin weren't part of the same group:

-When Goodwin pretends to rescue Nathan, he is still pretending to be a passenger. If they new each other from being in the same group, why not drop the act right then?
-Goodwin explains later than they would have eventually figured out that Nathan was on the plane, and thats why he killed him : to keep his mouth shut so they wouldn't start looking elsewhere for the mole. The thing is that Goodwin was ASSUMING Nathan had been on the plane, when by all accounts he wasn't. I believe that Goodwin snapped the neck of another infiltrator for Nathan's group of others, believing he was a passenger. He would have never seen Nathan before either way. It ended up blowing up on him though since, AL's suspicions went right to him after Nathan died.
-Goodwin admits being part of the others that stole the 12 people from the tailies. So we can assume that Nathan wasn't, even if he is part of some other group.

Other discrepancies that make me think that Ethan and Goodwin aren't part of the same group:

-The Others that stole the 12 from the tailies didn't hurt anybody. At least 3 of them died, but all they did was capture people. This isn't quite the "hide, run, or die" that Rousseau was claiming. Ethan started killing people as a means to get Claire back. The others didn't start killing people when they missed Eko the first time. Even Goodwin didn't start killing (Nathan) until after the heat was on about an infiltrator.
-If Ethan was part of Goodwin's group, why didn't he go get help. Ethan was operating alone, with massive opportunity to go get bare-footed help if he needed it. Why didn't he? Its pretty clear this is what Goodwin did.

All this and other clues lead me to believe that there are two sets of others battling for control of the lostaways.

1-A smaller more elite and violent group with Nathan and Ethan as hencemen.
2-A larger and less trained/supplied group that Goodwin was a part of.

So many more questions made by this episode than were answered....I like...:biggrin:

Although when asked about why he wasn't seen on the plane, he said he was in the bathroom. The whole time????

Drug problem? Might also be where he went later - to go get high.

This series of events and having rewatched the episode make me think that there are two sets of "others" on the island besides losties. I believe that Nathan and Ethan belong to one set, and Goodwin to the other set. Let's look at the two and how they shape up.

Ethan/Nathan:

-Name Similarity
-Both from Canada (sounded very much like a pre-chosen response, Canada would be an ideal generic answer based on there speech and race)
-Nathan wouldn't respond to AL's answer, and the answers he did give weren't too fulfilling. He said he was in the bathroom (an excuse he later uses on the island). And his background story didn't have anything to do with his time on the plane. If he was on the plane he could have begun answering any number of detailed questions, what time/place the plane left from, where he was sitting on the plane, etc, but he didn't. If he really was on the plane he would have been able to convince AL, but he didn't even put that much effort into it, even when in the pit w/o food.
-Nathan's 2 hours going to the bathroom in the jungle. If he had gone on a nature walk, why not just say it.
-Nathan did make suggestions all consistent with helping the others capture them.
-Generally beady eyed creepy vibe from both.

How we know Nathan & Goodwin weren't part of the same group:

-When Goodwin pretends to rescue Nathan, he is still pretending to be a passenger. If they new each other from being in the same group, why not drop the act right then?
-Goodwin explains later than they would have eventually figured out that Nathan was on the plane, and thats why he killed him : to keep his mouth shut so they wouldn't start looking elsewhere for the mole. The thing is that Goodwin was ASSUMING Nathan had been on the plane, when by all accounts he wasn't. I believe that Goodwin snapped the neck of another infiltrator for Nathan's group of others, believing he was a passenger. He would have never seen Nathan before either way. It ended up blowing up on him though since, AL's suspicions went right to him after Nathan died.
-Goodwin admits being part of the others that stole the 12 people from the tailies. So we can assume that Nathan wasn't, even if he is part of some other group.

Other discrepancies that make me think that Ethan and Goodwin aren't part of the same group:

-The Others that stole the 12 from the tailies didn't hurt anybody. At least 3 of them died, but all they did was capture people. This isn't quite the "hide, run, or die" that Rousseau was claiming. Ethan started killing people as a means to get Claire back. The others didn't start killing people when they missed Eko the first time. Even Goodwin didn't start killing (Nathan) until after the heat was on about an infiltrator.
-If Ethan was part of Goodwin's group, why didn't he go get help. Ethan was operating alone, with massive opportunity to go get bare-footed help if he needed it. Why didn't he? Its pretty clear this is what Goodwin did.

All this and other clues lead me to believe that there are two sets of others battling for control of the lostaways.

1-A smaller more elite and violent group with Nathan and Ethan as hencemen.
2-A larger and less trained/supplied group that Goodwin was a part of.

So many more questions made by this episode than were answered....I like...:biggrin:


I agree with this and it is my theory also. In this scenario, who gave food to Nathan?
Do you think it was Eko?

I agree with this and it is my theory also. In this scenario, who gave food to Nathan?
Do you think it was Eko?

My fiance and I debated this for some time. In the end I do think this was Eko giving him the food because he felt bad for him. I think this mainly because of his body language and facial expression when AL asked "Was it you?" meaning the person that gave Nathan the bananas. Plus if he wanted to indicate no he could have shook his head.

This brings up another question though. If we are assuming Nathan is a rogue bad-*** a la Ethan, then you'd think he wouldn't be caught sitting on the banana peels like a chump. He could have easily buried them, and AL would have never known they were there. Maybe a lapse in judgement? Maybe Nathan isn't as "talented" an operative as say Ethan.

Another interesting tidbit about Nathan going off to use drugs. Not out of the question after what we have seen with Charlie.

I agree with this and it is my theory also. In this scenario, who gave food to Nathan?
Do you think it was Eko?
Yes, it seemed to me like he silently admitted it.

What information did Nathan have? Nothing! He was saying all along that he wasn't the Other. He was killed by Goodwin so that Ana and the other tail-enders would go on thinking that Nathan was in fact the other and had escaped.
Ah, but he wasn't. Ana called him all sorts of bad names and he never protested his innocence, except lamely when she first caught him sneaking into the woods. (A two-hour bathroom break? Lay off those bananas!) He was acting very suspiciously, and that along with Goodwin's assessment of him as "not a good person" makes me want to learn more about him. But I don't think he was an Other, necessarily.

This series of events and having rewatched the episode make me think that there are two sets of "others" on the island besides losties. I believe that Nathan and Ethan belong to one set, and Goodwin to the other set. Let's look at the two and how they shape up.

Ethan/Nathan:

-Name Similarity
-Both from Canada (sounded very much like a pre-chosen response, Canada would be an ideal generic answer based on there speech and race)
-Nathan wouldn't respond to AL's answer, and the answers he did give weren't too fulfilling. He said he was in the bathroom (an excuse he later uses on the island). And his background story didn't have anything to do with his time on the plane. If he was on the plane he could have begun answering any number of detailed questions, what time/place the plane left from, where he was sitting on the plane, etc, but he didn't. If he really was on the plane he would have been able to convince AL, but he didn't even put that much effort into it, even when in the pit w/o food.
-Nathan's 2 hours going to the bathroom in the jungle. If he had gone on a nature walk, why not just say it.
-Nathan did make suggestions all consistent with helping the others capture them.
-Generally beady eyed creepy vibe from both.

How we know Nathan & Goodwin weren't part of the same group:

-When Goodwin pretends to rescue Nathan, he is still pretending to be a passenger. If they new each other from being in the same group, why not drop the act right then?
-Goodwin explains later than they would have eventually figured out that Nathan was on the plane, and thats why he killed him : to keep his mouth shut so they wouldn't start looking elsewhere for the mole. The thing is that Goodwin was ASSUMING Nathan had been on the plane, when by all accounts he wasn't. I believe that Goodwin snapped the neck of another infiltrator for Nathan's group of others, believing he was a passenger. He would have never seen Nathan before either way. It ended up blowing up on him though since, AL's suspicions went right to him after Nathan died.
-Goodwin admits being part of the others that stole the 12 people from the tailies. So we can assume that Nathan wasn't, even if he is part of some other group.

That's a pretty complicated theory, and it stretches credibility to assume that there are several independent groups on a small, remote island, with conflicting aims. But, you make a pretty persuasive case, I must say.

-The Others that stole the 12 from the tailies didn't hurt anybody. At least 3 of them died, but all they did was capture people. This isn't quite the "hide, run, or die" that Rousseau was claiming. Ethan started killing people as a means to get Claire back. The others didn't start killing people when they missed Eko the first time. Even Goodwin didn't start killing (Nathan) until after the heat was on about an infiltrator.

We don't know that they didn't hurt anyone. Presumably the strongest of them were killed instead of captured that first night. Goodwin does suggest that the forays weren't intended to be "attacks", and that the abductions were for the children's own good somehow. Also, they didn't come heavily armed (as did the ones who kidnapped Walt).


-If Ethan was part of Goodwin's group, why didn't he go get help. Ethan was operating alone, with massive opportunity to go get bare-footed help if he needed it. Why didn't he? Its pretty clear this is what Goodwin did.

All this and other clues lead me to believe that there are two sets of others battling for control of the lostaways.

1-A smaller more elite and violent group with Nathan and Ethan as hencemen.
2-A larger and less trained/supplied group that Goodwin was a part of.

Goodwin's and Ethan's MOs were so similar, though. Dress and act like a survivor, gather information, and strike when necessary. Also, Ethan pretty much had to have help from someone to carry off Charlie and Claire (and then go back to fight off Jack).

I miss Ethan. Now that was one scaaaary dude. The barefoot people have nothing on him.

We don't know that they didn't hurt anyone. Presumably the strongest of them were killed instead of captured that first night. Goodwin does suggest that the forays weren't intended to be "attacks", and that the abductions were for the children's own good somehow. Also, they didn't come heavily armed (as did the ones who kidnapped Walt).

Goodwin's and Ethan's MOs were so similar, though. Dress and act like a survivor, gather information, and strike when necessary. Also, Ethan pretty much had to have help from someone to carry off Charlie and Claire (and then go back to fight off Jack).

I miss Ethan. Now that was one scaaaary dude. The barefoot people have nothing on him.

And you mention a few aspects that lead me to believe that they didn't hurt anybody. You say it yourself, they didn't come heavily armed. They didn't hurt anybody that they didn't take. These being the people they would be most likely to hurt as they were defending those taken. They then also admit that these kidnappings weren't attacks.

The MOs were similar, but I think there was a large difference in their objectives. Ethan wanted Claire, for whatever reason, and I think he was just waiting for a chance to grab her until he ran. He didn't go out of his way to talk to anybody until people started talking to him. As soon as he saw that chance to go for it he did. Goodwin was actually trying to play the part of a crash surviver through emotion. He got to know the tailies, and gained there trust, something Ethan never did. You are right about Ethan needing help dragging Charlie & Claire through the Jungle though. Add to this Charlie's cryptic "All THEY wanted was Claire." Add to this Claire remembering scratching ROUSSEAU during the time she was missing. Add to this the numerous stated parrallels between Ethan and Nathan, and I think we have something brewing:cool:

Once again, I think if Ethan was part of the Others group we saw last night, he woulda brought bare-footed backup. You do have the best point on the thread though, nobody on the show comes close to Ethan in pure bad-assity. Eko is making a case fast though:biggrin:

I'm starting to believe there are more than just Survivors and Others on the island, and each has their own agenda. I think Ethan and Nathan belong to the one group (similarity in names, fact they both mentioned Canada), and I think Goodwin belongs to another group. I have no idea which group is The Others.

And you mention a few aspects that lead me to believe that they didn't hurt anybody. You say it yourself, they didn't come heavily armed. They didn't hurt anybody that they didn't take.

But they did take people and we still don't know their fate.


These being the people they would be most likely to hurt as they were defending those taken. They then also admit that these kidnappings weren't attacks.

I'm not convinced they didn't want anything more from those who were left. Why did Goodwin stick around if the Others had already taken everyone they wanted? And what constitutes an "attack" is definitely in the eye of the beholder, and Goodwin is hardly unbiased. :)


The MOs were similar, but I think there was a large difference in their objectives. Ethan wanted Claire, for whatever reason, and I think he was just waiting for a chance to grab her until he ran. He didn't go out of his way to talk to anybody until people started talking to him.

I don't know that we saw enough of Ethan to be able to say that. He seemed to be close to Locke, for one thing (which I still have my suspicions about...)


As soon as he saw that chance to go for it he did. Goodwin was actually trying to play the part of a crash surviver through emotion. He got to know the tailies, and gained there trust, something Ethan never did.

Well, he did to some degree, I mean he was one of the ones providing food. Also, the fact that Ethan and Goodwin had different styles doesn't mean their objectives were different.

Once again, I think if Ethan was part of the Others group we saw last night, he woulda brought bare-footed backup. You do have the best point on the thread though, nobody on the show comes close to Ethan in pure bad-assity. Eko is making a case fast though:biggrin:
You could be right about the backup - I tend to think that Ethan was affiliated with them, though, and maybe he didn't want or need backup for what was basically a stealth mission. He apparently did get some backup for the double kidnapping of Charlie and Claire.

Eko is very cool, but he'll never approach the nastiness of Ethan. Eko strikes me as a reluctant bad-***. Ethan lifting Charlie up by the throat and threatening to kill everyone else one-by-one and then him...one of the freakiest moments on the show so far. And he didn't just kill Sceve, he broke him into pieces. One sick, sick dude.

Nathan's name and the mention of Canada were red herrings. (Although someone, I think on TWoP, had a theory that during one of his two-hour potty breaks, Nathan ran into an evil Other who interrogated him, then told him to say nothing of it--an Other who then went across island and adopted part of Nathan's back story for verisimilitude. But I digress.)

Nathan clammed up when Ana started abusing/starving him because clearly he (was) a Sawyer-type--stubborn, cocky, and anti-authoritan. That sort never respond to attempts at intimidation. Nathan might still be alive if he'd offered to trade the truth for a kiss from Libby... :rolleyes: (If he'd offered to trade the truth for a kiss from Ana, she'd have killed him on the spot.)

That's a pretty complicated theory, and it stretches credibility to assume that there are several independent groups on a small, remote island, with conflicting aims.

Not really, when you consider that there were several stations on the island, all doing different types of research. Something could have gone terribly wrong on several (or all) of them, and the different groups of people could be a result of that. Who knows, maybe Ethan and Nathan really were from Canada....part of a scientific team sent from there. :confused:

On another note, it was interesting to note that one of the ways AnaLucia claimed to know that Goodwin was an "Other" was because he came running out of the jungle, completely dry. She said, "You'd never even been in the ocean." Well......Bernard had never been in the ocean, either. At least one of the survivors landed in the jungle, and not in the water, so it would have been easy for Goodwin to claim that that's what had happened to him.

Nathan's name and the mention of Canada were red herrings. (Although someone, I think on TWoP, had a theory that during one of his two-hour potty breaks, Nathan ran into an evil Other who interrogated him, then told him to say nothing of it--an Other who then went across island and adopted part of Nathan's back story for verisimilitude. But I digress.)

Hopefully, the original losties still have the flight manifest and someone will think to check it for Nathan's name. Not that it matters now, but it would be less irritating to know for sure. :biggrin:

HUh? How was Charlie "found out"?

Goodwin killed Nathan because he knew the rest of the group would realize Nathan was on flight 815, not an other, and continue to investigate. They would have realized Goodwin was the spy / plant (Ana Lucia finally did) so Goodwin killed Nathan to prevent his cover being blown.
I dont see any parallel between Charlie and Nathan-or EThan-Charlie was never perceived to be an "other". Hurley is the one that suspected Ethan Rom was an other-you would think Rim would go after Hugo to protect his "cover", not charlie

I totally agree.
Except- nobody suspected Ethan of being and "other" because until they checked the manifest there was no reason to suspect someone in their group wasn't on the plane. The tailies knew on day 1 that they weren't alone.

I think the simple and OBVIOUS explanation is that Nathan had a bad case of diarrhea which is why he spent two hours in the bathroom on the plane and in the jungle.

Poor guy.

Wouldn't it be a advantageous to plant more than one other in a group? If one is discovered the alternative can carry out the mission. On the same idea, if one isn't going to be effective or if the mission is jeopardized then the undiscovered person can remove them from the equation.

I would just like to state that I liked Nathan, because I loved the show ED! After watching the episode today I got the impression right off that Goodwin was the the one up to no good. Maybe it's because the guy who plays him always plays a villian. He had shifty eyes to me.


I think the simple and OBVIOUS explanation is that Nathan had a bad case of diarrhea which is why he spent two hours in the bathroom on the plane and in the jungle.

Poor guy.

Well since he's dead at least Rose won't be cleaning his stinky drawers.

I would just like to state that I liked Nathan, because I loved the show ED! After watching the episode today I got the impression right off that Goodwin was the the one up to no good. Maybe it's because the guy who plays him always plays a villian. He had shifty eyes to me.




Well since he's dead at least Rose won't be cleaning his stinky drawers.


Nasty:redface:

As far as the Canada references being red herrings I'm sure they are in one sense. Whether its a red herring to the characters in the show or a red herring to the viewers will have to be decided. Its still early, but its a distinction. I definitely don't buy the whole, "Nathan wasn't talking in the pit because he was a badas" argument. Sawyer wouldn't have starved to death without saying anything. Ethan on the other hand...

Has anyone considered that maybe Nathan was just a necrophiliac, and wanted to head back to the beach to dig up somebody? It would explain why he was hesitant to reveal what he had been doing for two hours.

Yeah, me neither...

Has anyone considered that maybe Nathan was just a necrophiliac, and wanted to head back to the beach to dig up somebody? It would explain why he was hesitant to reveal what he had been doing for two hours.

Yeah, me neither...

Easily the sickest turn Lost could possibly take.:frown:

I definitely don't buy the whole, "Nathan wasn't talking in the pit because he was a badas" argument. Sawyer wouldn't have starved to death without saying anything. Ethan on the other hand... Neither would Nathan, but that doesn't matter because he wasn't worried about starving to death. He was in the pit for three or four days before he got caught with the banana, but that doesn't mean it was the first or only time Eko slipped him food.

On another note, it was interesting to note that one of the ways AnaLucia claimed to know that Goodwin was an "Other" was because he came running out of the jungle, completely dry. She said, "You'd never even been in the ocean." Well......Bernard had never been in the ocean, either. At least one of the survivors landed in the jungle, and not in the water, so it would have been easy for Goodwin to claim that that's what had happened to him. Ana caught Goodwin because he claimed he was on the beach and heard Bernard screaming. He wasn't wet so he didn't end up in the water, and he made no attempt to claim he woke up on the beach between the water and the jungle. She caught him and he knew it. At that point all the lies in the world wouldn't have convinced her. Had Goodwin claimed to wake up on dry land then he might have gotten away with it, but he didn't.

As for Nathan's time in the jungle, maybe he was out there beating trees and venting his frustration at being ordered around like someone in boot camp. Maybe he wanted some "private time". Maybe he was crying. We'll probably never know now. Locke has done a lot more suspicious things than Nathan, but he gets a free pass because he's not a complete j*****s?. Just because Nathan was a jerk doesn't mean he was an Other.

And some people really are from Canada. ;)

I'm not talking about Ethan killing to protect his cover, the parallel I see is with both Ethan and Nathan being killed as soon as they were suspected fo something so they couldn't divulge information.


OF COURSE!!! WHY DIDN'T WE SEE IT!!! EVERYBODY IS AN OTHER, KILLING EACH OTHER SO THEY DON'T TELL THE SECRET.

bonehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neither would Nathan, but that doesn't matter because he wasn't worried about starving to death. He was in the pit for three or four days before he got caught with the banana, but that doesn't mean it was the first or only time Eko slipped him food.

Ana caught Goodwin because he claimed he was on the beach and heard Bernard screaming. He wasn't wet so he didn't end up in the water, and he made no attempt to claim he woke up on the beach between the water and the jungle. She caught him and he knew it. At that point all the lies in the world wouldn't have convinced her. Had Goodwin claimed to wake up on dry land then he might have gotten away with it, but he didn't.

As for Nathan's time in the jungle, maybe he was out there beating trees and venting his frustration at being ordered around like someone in boot camp. Maybe he wanted some "private time". Maybe he was crying. We'll probably never know now. Locke has done a lot more suspicious things than Nathan, but he gets a free pass because he's not a complete j*****s?. Just because Nathan was a jerk doesn't mean he was an Other.

And some people really are from Canada. ;)

The thing about multiple food slippings could be true, but you'd think if Nathan was sloppy enough not to BURY the banana peels he would have been sloppy enough to give AL other hints about food. Not to mention I'd be worried about starvation if I was him, just because Eko gave him food once, or even multiple times, doesn't mean it would keep comming necessarily. I still don't think what he said and how he acted indicate that he was on the plane at all. He didn't deny any of the accusations Anna made about him once in the pit except right when he was thrown in. Once again if he was having private time, for 2 hours, why not just say it. Why not expand on "I was going to the bathroom." Seems easily to explain beyond that if you don't have something to hide.


Actually I can't believe this thread hasn't explored this yet, but does anybody remember Nathan's placement on the beach when we first see him after the crash? Does anybody have a screencap of the first time we see Nathan at all? That might help settle this, or at least shed some light.

Nathan was NOT an Other.

The thing about multiple food slippings could be true, but you'd think if Nathan was sloppy enough not to BURY the banana peels he would have been sloppy enough to give AL other hints about food. As far as we know he could have been eating that banana just a few seconds before she opened the pit.

I still don't think what he said and how he acted indicate that he was on the plane at all. He didn't deny any of the accusations Anna made about him once in the pit except right when he was thrown in. Once again if he was having private time, for 2 hours, why not just say it. Why not expand on "I was going to the bathroom." Seems easily to explain beyond that if you don't have something to hide. Why did Sawyer let himself be tortured rather than just tell them he didn't have Shannon's inhalers? Why, even after it had already started, did he still insist on telling them what they wanted to know in his own way? Because that's the type of person he is. Nathan would seem to be the same type but without the quick wit.

Actually I can't believe this thread hasn't explored this yet, but does anybody remember Nathan's placement on the beach when we first see him after the crash? Does anybody have a screencap of the first time we see Nathan at all? Sorry, I missed the first 20 min so I can't help you there.

The similarities are between the way Nathan was killed and the way Scott was killed. They both had their necks broken. Whoever killed Scott used the same method as the 'other' Goodwin. I am assuming an 'other' which is Ethan...killed Scott.
ok i'm now lost, who was scott?? and how did he die?
diamondone:7:

As far as we know he could have been eating that banana just a few seconds before she opened the pit.

Why did Sawyer let himself be tortured rather than just tell them he didn't have Shannon's inhalers? Why, even after it had already started, did he still insist on telling them what they wanted to know in his own way? Because that's the type of person he is. Nathan would seem to be the same type but without the quick wit.

Sorry, I missed the first 20 min so I can't help you there.

I'm interested what you opinion was on who gave him the banana? Eko? If he didn't have 3 seconds to scarf a banana and throw a some dirt on it, how did Eko have enough to get away from the pit without being discovered by AL?

I'm not sure we can compare Sawyer to Nathan. We knew alot about Sawyer when all that was going down, we know he had a hard on for Kate. Not to mention he spilled real quick once Sayid layed down the law. We probably won't ever know on this unfortunately, unless eventually we look back to the manifest list or something. I need to go find a screencap, darn can't get Lost-media at work.

I agree with this and it is my theory also. In this scenario, who gave food to Nathan?
Do you think it was Eko?
yes we already were shown his admission to that,
Dr Eko stepped forward when AL was quizzing her comrades who fed him, and she said to Dr Eko after he stepped up to her.
"YOU"..." why", but he was still in non speech mode, but he nodded yes to her question...
diamondone :hypocrit: .

Not that there aren't 300 threads already discussing this, but I'll try one last time.

Goodwin made a list of passenger names and clothing. The others had that list. Goodwin was an other.

Hurley confronts an 'other' and needs a name from the manifest. Other either misread or misheard the name and used Ethan instead of Nathan from that list. Ethan knew he had to pick a name on the manifest, he couldn't pick Ana, Libby, Cindy because he's a male. He picked a male's name but got the name wrong, just a little.
Nathan was a red herring during the episode as an other. We know why Goodwin killed him, because he told us why. Nathan was a passenger on the plane, and an other tried to use his name, hence Ethan.

As I said on another thread, the writers could have used Bob from Alabama, stuck him in a pit, made us think he was an imposter, but they didn't. They used Nathan to help explain how Ethan got his name.

Sorry if this was already posted...

Nathan asks Goodwin "Which way is the beach?" I think if Nathan was an 'other' he'd know his way around the island.

Not that there aren't 300 threads already discussing this, but I'll try one last time.

Goodwin made a list of passenger names and clothing. The others had that list. Goodwin was an other.

Hurley confronts an 'other' and needs a name from the manifest. Other either misread or misheard the name and used Ethan instead of Nathan from that list. Ethan knew he had to pick a name on the manifest, he couldn't pick Ana, Libby, Cindy because he's a male. He picked a male's name but got the name wrong, just a little.
Nathan was a red herring during the episode as an other. We know why Goodwin killed him, because he told us why. Nathan was a passenger on the plane, and an other tried to use his name, hence Ethan.

As I said on another thread, the writers could have used Bob from Alabama, stuck him in a pit, made us think he was an imposter, but they didn't. They used Nathan to help explain how Ethan got his name.

A few questions:

When did Ethan see the name Nathan on the Manifest? I don't remember Hurly saying it. I also don't think Ethan would botch such a critical element in his disguise. How did Ethan get access to that name? When did he "mishear" or "misread"? Also the whole point about Nathan asking about the beach is good. But after 4 days with only a bit of food, he also could have been disoriented.

As for Nathan's time in the jungle, maybe he was out there beating trees and venting his frustration at being ordered around like someone in boot camp. Maybe he wanted some "private time". Maybe he was crying. We'll probably never know now. Locke has done a lot more suspicious things than Nathan, but he gets a free pass because he's not a complete j*****s?. Just because Nathan was a jerk doesn't mean he was an Other.
:rotflmao:

Some one asked why did Nathan ask Goodwin the way to the beach if he really was an Other he would know, well maybe if we're going with the 2 groups of Others here, he didn't want Goodwin to know he was an Other. He prob thought Goodwin was a passanger on flight 815. Hey if Nathan really was on the flight running back to the beach away from the nutter who threw you in a pit for 3 day without food would be the thing he would tihnk of first

Not that there aren't 300 threads already discussing this, but I'll try one last time.

Goodwin made a list of passenger names and clothing. The others had that list. Goodwin was an other.

Hurley confronts an 'other' and needs a name from the manifest. Other either misread or misheard the name and used Ethan instead of Nathan from that list. Ethan knew he had to pick a name on the manifest, he couldn't pick Ana, Libby, Cindy because he's a male. He picked a male's name but got the name wrong, just a little.
Nathan was a red herring during the episode as an other. We know why Goodwin killed him, because he told us why. Nathan was a passenger on the plane, and an other tried to use his name, hence Ethan.

As I said on another thread, the writers could have used Bob from Alabama, stuck him in a pit, made us think he was an imposter, but they didn't. They used Nathan to help explain how Ethan got his name.
I saw your post in another thread and completely agree with you. "Other Ethan" used the name of a real passenger to blend in with the Losties (he just got the name wrong). And I think that name was provided to him by Goodwin - after he killed Nathan.

In the timeline, does anyone know on what day Hurley took the census and what day Goodwin killed Nathan?

Here is another note that you might find interesting.
B.F. Skinner, mentioned in the video, wrote a book called Walded Two. Walden Two describes a fictional community designed around behavioral principles. The community is minimally consuming and minimally polluting. The one group of others doesn't wear shoes and made their own clothes. It is also egalitarian in the division of work. This means that they devide up work equally and and would most likely travel in groups. Its most controversial aspect is the communal raising of children and the educational system which teaches patience and how to handle destructive emotions such as jealousy along with normal academic subjects. Maybe that is why they take the kids, (for their own good) and that is why Goodwin said that they are better off. Maybe they are trying to protect the children from the group that took Walt or from people like Ethan. Sounds to me like this may have been an inspiration for lost.

I would agree with you if it was the same name, but I'm not sure I buy the argument that Ethan got the name wrong. It would have been a cooler surprise for it to have turned out that there really was an Ethan Rom on the plane and then we would have wondered if there were lots of Ethans or if the first "Ethan" stole his identity. Besides, if there was a Nathan Rom on the manifest, why would Hurley have been so freaked out? He would have just said close enough and assumed it was a typo.

A few questions:

When did Ethan see the name Nathan on the Manifest? I don't remember Hurly saying it. I also don't think Ethan would botch such a critical element in his disguise. How did Ethan get access to that name? When did he "mishear" or "misread"? Also the whole point about Nathan asking about the beach is good. But after 4 days with only a bit of food, he also could have been disoriented.

Ethan didn't see the name Nathan on the manifest. He saw the name on the list Goodwin made or heard it in discussions with the others.
Hurly was holding the manifest and checking off names. Ethan needed to pick a name on the manifest list.
I wouldn't think Goodwin would botch his disguise either by saying he came from the water. He could have simply said he landed in the trees in the vacinity of Bernard. But Goodwin botched it also.
Ethan got access to the name from either the list (misread) or from the others (misheard).
Only my opinion.

I believe nathan was in an institution

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=612736#post612736

Why was Nathan using the bathroom excuse? He used it to say that is why he was in the jungle and when questioned about being on the plane, he said again he was in the bathroom.
Cindy did not remember him being on the plane, so maybe he was an Other and wasn't really killed, maybe he tracked them and took Cindy because she knew he wasn't on the plane!

Why was Nathan using the bathroom excuse? He used it to say that is why he was in the jungle and when questioned about being on the plane, he said again he was in the bathroom.
Cindy did not remember him being on the plane, so maybe he was an Other and wasn't really killed, maybe he tracked them and took Cindy because she knew he wasn't on the plane!

That's interesting in itself. I kinda assumed that Nathan was definitely removed and his body disposed of by Goodwin. Is it possible he survived the neck snapping?

Is it possible Nathan could have been a stowaway on the plane? Hence his staying in the bathroom the whole time? That is why he kept quiet?

Is it possible Nathan could have been a stowaway on the plane? Hence his staying in the bathroom the whole time? That is why he kept quiet?

Come to think of it, there were an awful lot of people in those bathrooms. Remember how many Charlie had to jiggle before he found the very last one unoccupied?

Sorry if this was already posted...

Nathan asks Goodwin "Which way is the beach?" I think if Nathan was an 'other' he'd know his way around the island.

Maybe he doesn't know that part of the island? Maybe he was trying to stay in character?
Why would he go back to the beach, anyway, when he knew it was dangerous to stay
there?

The thing is..Goodwin didn't seem to upset that some of his group had been killed. There doesn't seem to be that much of a 'revenge' factor going on (which would fit in nicely if they were part of a BF Skinner Walden TWO experiment). No one has come after Charlie for kiling Ethan for instance. When the others returned to the tailees camp.. they apparently only came to snatch people..not to give out any kind of vengenance.


If Ana starts cutting fingers off...and if Nathan was an other he probably would have been trained to keep his mouth shut no matter what the torture. Goodwin would have known to stay in the background and do nothing. Goodwin knew that Ethan was innocent..and that the finger cutting thing would reveal that he was innocent and Ana would believe him and that she would start looking elsewhere for a suspect.

I saw your post in another thread and completely agree with you. "Other Ethan" used the name of a real passenger to blend in with the Losties (he just got the name wrong). And I think that name was provided to him by Goodwin - after he killed Nathan.

In the timeline, does anyone know on what day Hurley took the census and what day Goodwin killed Nathan?

That makes more sense than Ethan reading it from the list of names taken from the manifest, since none of the tailies or their attackers ever had it. And it would also explain why Ethan got the last name wrong....Nathan never told Goodwin his last name, so Ethan had to make one up (or use his real one).

But. Why would Ethan pretend to be someone that was actually on the plane, if he knew they were checking the manifest? Didn't he know they'd realize he wasn't there, since he gave the wrong last name?

I wouldn't think Goodwin would botch his disguise either by saying he came from the water. He could have simply said he landed in the trees in the vacinity of Bernard. But Goodwin botched it also.

That's what I'm thinking, too. He could have said that he was on his way out of the jungle to help those on the beach when he heard Bernard calling for help. I guess the Others aren't necessarily of higher intelligence, they're just meaner. :rolleyes:

Let's see. You have a name on the manifest. Nathan Whatever from Canada.

Nameless Other on main beach decides to take that name. Does he know that 'Nathan/Ethan" is over on the tailees beach and so there can be no mix-up?

They have identified the dead. He can't be one of those. He has to be someone who is 'missing' from the main beach.

That implies the others know who is on what beach.

Perhaps he can't read someone's writing. Perhaps the paper is wet. They 'see' Ethan' from Canada. Rom is either the real last name or the 'other man's' real life name or they make it up.

They don't know the manifest survived the crash. They don't realize someone might decide to take a census and check it against the manifest.

Ethan is unaware of this because he asks Hurley "What is this for?" and Hurley gives him kind of a non-answer and doesn't mention the manifest.

Whoever attacked Claire set all this in motion...but once again they apparently didn't know that the main group had the manifest.


So is all this logically possible?

I asked this question of a couple of people that watch Lost, too and we all agree that Nathan wasn't an Other. Goodwin didn't have to kill him if he was an Other, he'd just send him back to the group and Nathan would know where the beach was if he was an Other.

Agreed. Nathan = not an Other

This series of events and having rewatched the episode make me think that there are two sets of "others" on the island besides losties. I believe that Nathan and Ethan belong to one set, and Goodwin to the other set. Let's look at the two and how they shape up.

Ethan/Nathan:

-Name Similarity
-Both from Canada (sounded very much like a pre-chosen response, Canada would be an ideal generic answer based on there speech and race)
-Nathan wouldn't respond to AL's answer, and the answers he did give weren't too fulfilling. He said he was in the bathroom (an excuse he later uses on the island). And his background story didn't have anything to do with his time on the plane. If he was on the plane he could have begun answering any number of detailed questions, what time/place the plane left from, where he was sitting on the plane, etc, but he didn't. If he really was on the plane he would have been able to convince AL, but he didn't even put that much effort into it, even when in the pit w/o food.
-Nathan's 2 hours going to the bathroom in the jungle. If he had gone on a nature walk, why not just say it.
-Nathan did make suggestions all consistent with helping the others capture them.
-Generally beady eyed creepy vibe from both.

How we know Nathan & Goodwin weren't part of the same group:

-When Goodwin pretends to rescue Nathan, he is still pretending to be a passenger. If they new each other from being in the same group, why not drop the act right then?
-Goodwin explains later than they would have eventually figured out that Nathan was on the plane, and thats why he killed him : to keep his mouth shut so they wouldn't start looking elsewhere for the mole. The thing is that Goodwin was ASSUMING Nathan had been on the plane, when by all accounts he wasn't. I believe that Goodwin snapped the neck of another infiltrator for Nathan's group of others, believing he was a passenger. He would have never seen Nathan before either way. It ended up blowing up on him though since, AL's suspicions went right to him after Nathan died.
-Goodwin admits being part of the others that stole the 12 people from the tailies. So we can assume that Nathan wasn't, even if he is part of some other group.
>snip<

So many more questions made by this episode than were answered....I like...:biggrin:
Good theory but for one major point. The Others knew the names of the people on the plane. They would have had to have the complete list of passengers to have been able to weed out the "good people." So, Goodwin would have known if Nathan was an Other or a passenger. He killed Nathan simply to stop the possibility of AL coming across him again and going on with the questioning. Also, I find it impossible that they could be on that island (as Others) and not know about each other. We've seen that they know their way around that island like the backs of their hands ... so I doubt they don't know who all of them are.
Not that there aren't 300 threads already discussing this, but I'll try one last time.

Goodwin made a list of passenger names and clothing. The others had that list. Goodwin was an other.

Hurley confronts an 'other' and needs a name from the manifest. Other either misread or misheard the name and used Ethan instead of Nathan from that list. Ethan knew he had to pick a name on the manifest, he couldn't pick Ana, Libby, Cindy because he's a male. He picked a male's name but got the name wrong, just a little. Nathan was a red herring during the episode as an other. We know why Goodwin killed him, because he told us why. Nathan was a passenger on the plane, and an other tried to use his name, hence Ethan.

As I said on another thread, the writers could have used Bob from Alabama, stuck him in a pit, made us think he was an imposter, but they didn't. They used Nathan to help explain how Ethan got his name.
Do we know who made the list? It was found on the dead woman ... I don't recall Goodwain saying he'd made the list. How do you connect the reason why Goodwin killed Nathan to Nathan being Ethan? You lost me on that one. With how well these Others track and abduct those they want, I find it impossible to accept that they would get something as simple as a name wrong. The worst-trained spy learns to get his identity correct.
:rotflmao:

Some one asked why did Nathan ask Goodwin the way to the beach if he really was an Other he would know, well maybe if we're going with the 2 groups of Others here, he didn't want Goodwin to know he was an Other. He prob thought Goodwin was a passanger on flight 815. Hey if Nathan really was on the flight running back to the beach away from the nutter who threw you in a pit for 3 day without food would be the thing he would tihnk of first
2 groups or 100 groups. They all live on that island ... they would all know where the beaches were.
Here is another note that you might find interesting.
B.F. Skinner, mentioned in the video, wrote a book called Walded Two. Walden Two describes a fictional community designed around behavioral principles. The community is minimally consuming and minimally polluting. The one group of others doesn't wear shoes and made their own clothes. It is also egalitarian in the division of work. This means that they devide up work equally and and would most likely travel in groups. Its most controversial aspect is the communal raising of children and the educational system which teaches patience and how to handle destructive emotions such as jealousy along with normal academic subjects. Maybe that is why they take the kids, (for their own good) and that is why Goodwin said that they are better off. Maybe they are trying to protect the children from the group that took Walt or from people like Ethan. Sounds to me like this may have been an inspiration for lost.
It could have easily played a part of how they designed the Others. Good info!
I would agree with you if it was the same name, but I'm not sure I buy the argument that Ethan got the name wrong. It would have been a cooler surprise for it to have turned out that there really was an Ethan Rom on the plane and then we would have wondered if there were lots of Ethans or if the first "Ethan" stole his identity. Besides, if there was a Nathan Rom on the manifest, why would Hurley have been so freaked out? He would have just said close enough and assumed it was a typo.
Me too. I can't buy that they'd get something so easy wrong ... whether or not they knew that the passengers had the manifest. They had a list of the passengers so it would make sense that anyone they sent out to be among the survivors would be prepared for something as common as "What's your name?"
Ethan didn't see the name Nathan on the manifest. He saw the name on the list Goodwin made or heard it in discussions with the others.
Hurly was holding the manifest and checking off names. Ethan needed to pick a name on the manifest list.
I wouldn't think Goodwin would botch his disguise either by saying he came from the water. He could have simply said he landed in the trees in the vacinity of Bernard. But Goodwin botched it also.
Ethan got access to the name from either the list (misread) or from the others (misheard).
Only my opinion.
But there has to be some kind of leader to organize all that the Others are doing. They can't all be working independantly of each other so they would never succeed at what they're trying to do. They've managed to capture a lot of people and that takes organization. To keep things organized takes training and information for any occassion. If they'd send someone out among the survivors, they'd equip them with all mannor of ways to cover their real identity.
I believe nathan was in an institution

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=612736#post612736
That's a great idea. I did a collage of all of the Nathan pix I could find that were clear and put them with the pix of the guy from the hospital. You can view it here:
http://img519.imageshack.us/full.php?image=numbersnathan4az.jpg I thought they were the same person but after I looked at all of the Nathan pix, I'm no so sure now. Mainly because the wrinkles in the foreheads don't match. Nathan has a decidely prominent crease in his forehead above his eyebrows that the guy in the institution pix doesn't have and Nathan is a lot bulkier than the blonde guy. Notice the thin shoulders on the blonde guy vs. Nathan's full, rounded shoulders.
That's interesting in itself. I kinda assumed that Nathan was definitely removed and his body disposed of by Goodwin. Is it possible he survived the neck snapping?
Highly unlikely. About as much as the chicken ... ;)
Maybe he doesn't know that part of the island? Maybe he was trying to stay in character?
Why would he go back to the beach, anyway, when he knew it was dangerous to stay
there?
Because he was one that felt they needed to stay on the beach to keep the fire burning to help the rescue planes spot them and it was away from AL(!).

Not that there aren't 300 threads already discussing this, but I'll try one last time.

Goodwin made a list of passenger names and clothing. The others had that list. Goodwin was an other.

Hurley confronts an 'other' and needs a name from the manifest. Other either misread or misheard the name and used Ethan instead of Nathan from that list. Ethan knew he had to pick a name on the manifest, he couldn't pick Ana, Libby, Cindy because he's a male. He picked a male's name but got the name wrong, just a little.
Nathan was a red herring during the episode as an other. We know why Goodwin killed him, because he told us why. Nathan was a passenger on the plane, and an other tried to use his name, hence Ethan.

As I said on another thread, the writers could have used Bob from Alabama, stuck him in a pit, made us think he was an imposter, but they didn't. They used Nathan to help explain how Ethan got his name.


What color is the sky on your planet?? Your "theory" has absolutely nothing to support it other than both names end with "than". Sorry, but you truly are out of your league trying to figure out anything going on.

Here is another note that you might find interesting.
B.F. Skinner, mentioned in the video, wrote a book called Walded Two. Walden Two describes a fictional community designed around behavioral principles. The community is minimally consuming and minimally polluting. The one group of others doesn't wear shoes and made their own clothes. It is also egalitarian in the division of work. This means that they devide up work equally and and would most likely travel in groups. Its most controversial aspect is the communal raising of children and the educational system which teaches patience and how to handle destructive emotions such as jealousy along with normal academic subjects. Maybe that is why they take the kids, (for their own good) and that is why Goodwin said that they are better off. Maybe they are trying to protect the children from the group that took Walt or from people like Ethan. Sounds to me like this may have been an inspiration for lost.


With all the different groups that you have invented for the island, they should be running into each other a whole lot more. Drink less, think more.

I feel that the similarity of names between Ethan and Nathan was just bait to get us viewers to jump to the same (and wrong) conclusion Ana did. Same with them both being Canadian.

Is it possible Nathan could have been a stowaway on the plane? Hence his staying in the bathroom the whole time? That is why he kept quiet?

People who stow away on airplanes do not do so in the passenger compartment. It is impossible to get on board a plane in Australia without a ticket.

Nathan was a bit strange. I thought he was the other lostaway's "ethan" early on. The show's creators wanted you to believe that. I told my husband I thought he looked similar to ethan. And what was he doing in the jungle for 2 hours! What a bathroom break.

He probably needs some erotic alone time.

I asked this question of a couple of people that watch Lost, too and we all agree that Nathan wasn't an Other. Goodwin didn't have to kill him if he was an Other, he'd just send him back to the group and Nathan would know where the beach was if he was an Other.

First of all, the word Other I think has a lot of people confused. I think we can agree that we can now call the bared clothed kidnappers the others, at least for the time being. Goodwin is part of this group, we no that cause he admitted it. Nathan (it would seem) isn't part of this group, because he would have talked to Ethan more than he did before killing him. Goodwin, not knowing Nathan, !ASSUMES! that he would admitt to being a passenger upon being tortured. To cover his back his kills him. This doesn't mean that Nathan was on the plane. If Nathan had been part of ANOTHER group on the island, not Goodwin's group, Goodwin still would have had no idea, and killed him anyway, still assuming hes a passenger because he knows of no other group on the island. Cindy and AL don't recognize him. So assuming he wasn't an Other, doesn't mean that he wasn't an infiltrator from some other group. The suspicions for that assertion have already been listed in this thread. Apparently Nathan's first appearance wasn't at the beach when the crash occurs, but the third night when the first three are taken. I guess his first line is "Three of us are missing!" Him not being at the crash site is another bit of circumstantial evidence. I suppose I agree, Nathan wasn't an Other, but I certainly don't think he was on the plane. My vote goes to Ethan and Nathan being in cahoots. Still don't believe the whole thing about the manifest either. I think the others could have picked up the names and "goodnesses" through a few days of stealthy observing from the bushes, or from Goodwin, not necessarily through any list, although it's possible.

I feel that the similarity of names between Ethan and Nathan was just bait to get us viewers to jump to the same (and wrong) conclusion Ana did. Same with them both being Canadian.

According to the latest podcast by Damon and Carlton:


You are exactly right. T
hose similarities with Ethan were created to make Nathan a red herring.

:biggrin: Killing threads dead