I'm totally confused. Who is the horse supposed to be/ what does it represent?

I too am confused. I was going to start this thread but yu beat me to it. Someone wanna explain/theorize?

Black horses are typically symbols for pestilence and famine, as well as judgement and sorrow.


(google is my friend)

possible that that's the same horse that was in the road?

First of all Flicka is real and I thought white horses meant pestilence because death rode on one.

In some cultures horses represent love, relationships, and compassion. I'm thinking Polynesian culture in particular.

2002 was the chinese year of the black horse, apparently.

My take is the horse seems to be helping Kate and is on her side. It possibly represents Kate's freedom, both literally and symbolically. It helped her get free from the marshall by causing the car crash. On the island it helped her to let go of the pain of killing her father. It is very similar to Sawyer's boar.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Wayne.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Wayne.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Wayne will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. I am Mister Wayne.

Zelsa saved Wayne by using her witch powers and turning him into a horse of course.

I was already googling this when I started skimming posts and saw this one. Here are a few things that I've found:

http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/prophecy/revbook/seals1-4.html
Summary of the First Four Seals

FIRST there is the white horse: the Almighty's truth-filled, warning message! which exposes the various spiritual counterfeits that abound in our day.
SECOND there is the red horse: whose rider wields a great sword which symbolises violence, revolution, bloodshed and - war!
THIRD there is the black horse: which pictures hyper-inflation, sky-rocketing food prices and mass starvation - famine!
And FOURTH the sickly pale, yellowish-green horse: which stands for disease epidemics and plagues on an international scale - pestilence!.

http://www.answers.com/topic/four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse


http://www.greatdreams.com/animals.htm

The black horse in the book of Revelations relates to a necessary balance of the male and female qualities of the soul. Riding a black horse represents a need to control the energies of the body, usually sexual. The pale horse represents the thymus gland and represents the affections of love. Being halted by horses denotes a necessity to control and redirect the emotions. Falling off a horse shows rejection of some of the dream warnings. To follow a horses foottracks represents following Christ's footsteps.


Hope that helps :)

SQT

In literature, horses are sometimes used as symbols of sexuality or virility -- see D.H. Lawrence's "The Rocking Horse Winner," or Faulkner's "As I Lay Dying" (specifically the scenes that feature Cash).

Maybe she has a secret obsession for big black stallions?

In that case, Michael and Eko: Watch out!

Eko seems to be over compinsation with The Stick.

All I got out of it is that Kate and the Marshall were driving through farm country and a horse got lose, this horse saved kate at home and reappeared on the island to save her again, remeber, she thought she was going crazy, then sawyer saw the horse too.....kind of like Shannon thinking she was crazy for seeing walt then Sayid saw him too..............hummmmmmmm
Anyway, all I could think was WHAT A BEAUTIFUL HORSE!!! I hope someone who knows something about horses will post what kind of horse it is, really pretty.

I thought that the black horse was the spirit of her biological father, Wayne. First protecting her in death as he hadn't in life, then on the island forgiving her.

I agree that there are parallels to Sawyer's boar, though.

Just an opinion. :-)

Dream symbolism:

If the horse is black, you will be successful in your fortune, but you will practice deception, and will be guilty of assignations. To a woman, this dream denotes that her husband is unfaithful. To dream of dark horses, signifies prosperous conditions, but a large amount of discontent. Fleeting pleasures usually follow this dream
.A black horse means death or separation.
BLACK HORSE a passionate sense of mystery
BLACK HORSE fleeting pleasures
BLACK HORSE mysterious and unknown passions
A black horse means you {sic} will power is undeveloped and you should practice making decisions.
if you have a black horse in a dream, you better start making some decisions, because it's telling you that your will is very, very weak. You are giving up to other people your ability to make decisions
Other references:
Rev 6:2 KJV) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
When John looks through the window he sees a White Horse. There are going to be four horses that ride, White, Red, Black, and Pale. When they come, they don't take a turn around the track and relay to the other one and then the next one comes out. The first seal breaks and the first horse is released, then we will see shortly after the next one is released and so on. As we look at the horses that are released, they have a causative affect. The White horse causes the Red horse to go into motion, the Red triggers the Black horse, and the Black horse ultimately causes the Pale horse to ride. They are all on the track at the same time. If you talk to the Seventh Day Adventist, they will tell you that these events were set into motion along time ago. That the white horse is Jesus and he rode for a thousand years, then that Red horse was Attila the Hun. The horses are not things in the past but are yet in the near future.


What is the traditional Interpretation of the Black Horse and rider?
Now the lamb opened the third seal and the third beast, the Man, told John to come and see. John saw: "And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine (Rev. 6:6-7)."
Now the "black horse" (Greek: hippos melas) symbolically represents famine. The rider with the balance and a measure of wheat shows forth the ration of wheat and barley for a days wages (Rev. 6:5-6; compare Zec. 6:2,6). A penny for a measure of wheat and 3 measures of barley is the "day’s wage" for food [See "PLIM REPORT" July/Aug. 1993 p. 35-36]. Now a measure of wheat is equal to about a dry quart.
There were many famines in the Old Testament, beginning with Abraham (Gn 12:10) and the Children of Israel’s migration into Egypt looking for food (Gn. 42:5-6). Now many Bible scholars have trouble with the rider on this horse being the Messiah.
What is the true interpretation?
The Black Horse and its rider represent both the physical and spiritual famine (Deu. 8:3; Amos 8:11; Jn. 6:51-67). We have had countless famines over the last 2,000 years, which show that this plague constantly repeats itself on mankind.
The Messiah spoke to Israel in parables. He said that He was the living bread (Jn. 6:28), living water, and His flesh was food (Jn. 6:51-62). He told them: "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (Jn. 6:63)." Those who refused to eat His words are in a spiritual famine.
Now the nations of the world are in spiritual famine already, which they do not see. As part of the world is already suffering from famines, there will be great physical famine coming on the whole world likened unto Egypt when Yahweh plagued it.

There's a lot of symbology involved, that's for certain.

" Being halted by horses denotes a necessity to control and redirect the emotions"

seems like you got it. Kate has control issues, for sure. Good find :)

A night Mare perhaps?

I thought the horse was an symbol for Kate herself.
First of all, Horses are wild, always meant to be on the run.
They can be captured easily, but its harder to break them (train them).
Lastly, they are strong and usually associated with valliancy.

As for the Horse (Kate/Sawyer) thing and the Walt (Shannon/Sayid) thing, that certain people share a closer connection to one another than anyone else. So, if two people are in love, it is easier for someone to deal with their burdens of their past, if they share it with someone they love and trust. So, by confiding in Sayid and Sawyer, the demons the girls had to face manifested so someone else could see them. The Island forces the people to look at what happened in their past and deal with it, not run from it. So by denying and suppressing these thoughts and ideas, they finally manifested. (Kate was constantly running and Shannon was too naive to realize her problem)

Take that!

Whatever the "reason" for "the horse" Kate seemed to be very comfortable with it by the end of the show.
Sawyer: Do you know this horse?
Kate: Yes, I do ( with a very pleasant smile on her face )

Zelsa saved Wayne by using her witch powers and turning him into a horse of course.

HAHAHAHAH!

My take is the horse seems to be helping Kate and is on her side. It possibly represents Kate's freedom, both literally and symbolically. It helped her get free from the marshall by causing the car crash. On the island it helped her to let go of the pain of killing her father. It is very similar to Sawyer's boar.


I agree 100%

Ok, I KNOW there was a thread in here about the horse but the board is rolling so fast I cant find it now!

Anyway, is it important to know that the horse is not a farming horse? Farm horses have kinda poochy bellies, but that black horse was thin. Except for the nappy mane, its body was tight and muscley and shaped like a racehorse.

Maybe that was supposed to relate back to Kate, like one of her episodes was called "Born to Run"???

Racehorses are definitely born into racing - they are specially bred. So was that some allusion to her background (white trash farm girl with abusive step-dad etc like the marshall said) that made her "born to run" just like the racehorse? Or does it signify that she will spend the rest of her life running???

:horse:

I sort of thought that the horse might of represented freedom to her. It let her free from the Marshall the first time, and it seemed to keep her at peace at the end of this episode as well, like she was free from the *ghost* of the man she killed, or had come to terms with it.

My take is the horse seems to be helping Kate and is on her side. It possibly represents Kate's freedom, both literally and symbolically. It helped her get free from the marshall by causing the car crash. On the island it helped her to let go of the pain of killing her father. It is very similar to Sawyer's boar.

I thought the same thing...that it represented her freedom.

Rex ROX! Awesome! Thanks for the Mr. Ed spoof!

I'm not even gonna go to the Empress Catherine/horses myth. It isn't true anyway, just one of those horrible historical myths that pop up.

But I like the "freedom" thing. Since we're studying symbolism and motifs in class these days, I think I'll ask my classes to come up with something tomorrow as we watch this epy.

I loved this episode. SOOO much of the old mystery coming back. Do we really have to wait till January for the new ones? Ack!

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Wayne.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Wayne.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Wayne will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. I am Mister Wayne.


:D That is too funny! I had been humming it all nite since watching the show :smile:



Anyway, if I remember correctly, there was a trophy on a mantle in Kate's house, right where the camera pans the room as she is helping 'ole drunko inside. It's nestled among a few pictures. I'm speculating maybe she rode a little bit and won? Could it possibly be a reason why they would choose a horse? Something "good" from her past?

(Or am I really reaching on this one because it's way too late and I should be in bed already?:ohwell: )

I think the horse appeared to Kate when she entered her life of crime, and then again when she was finally ready to leave it behind.

It came first when she was able to steal the marshall's car and run. This is interesting, because it is her second and not her frist crime. If she had only commited the one crime, and then gotten away with it, there is a chance she would have led an otherwise normal life. The marshall did mention, after all, that she had straigt-As (odd, since she did not got to college) and no record (aside from speeding tickets). However, after the marshall catches her and she is forced to run, at some point she will learn how to use a gun, she was be involved in circumstances that lead to Tom's death, she will manipulate men into robbing a bank with her only to betray them by shotting them so that she can steal Tom's toy airplane, she will flee to Australia, among who know what else. I think that fleeing from the marshall changed her life more drastically than the original murder did, if you think of it this way.

Then it appears again in this episode, when she has the desire to let go of her past, of Wayne, of the life she used to lead, so that she can feel comfortable with other people again, presumably with Sawyer. She wants to be absolved of what she did to Wayne, to an extent, anyway. I don't think she quite asked Wayne for forgiveness, but she sure came clean about her motives, perhaps in a way she had not done before? When she visited her mom, she implied that she'd done it for her mother, not for herself. She's let go of illusions. She's let go of dececption. She'll be Kate, for better or worse. Perhaps she in letting go of this, of Wayne, she is allowing herself to let go of the darkness she feels Wayne put in her by fathering her. Perhaps eventually she was realize it wasn't his fault. Or now. Actually, I'm not sure if I would like that at all. Either way, she has taken a huge step away from her old life.

I think there's sybolism in it....but still, the same horse! Thats crazy! It was weird and I got freaked out! Anyway, so yeah...whats up with it? What do you all think?

I think there's sybolism in it....but still, the same horse! Thats crazy! It was weird and I got freaked out! Anyway, so yeah...whats up with it? What do you all think?

I think Sawyer only SAID he saw it, so that he could get with Kate. :p

JUST kidding!

no, he saw it, which ruined the whole thing on her just "seeing things"....thats what killls me...

I think Sawyer only SAID he saw it, so that he could get with Kate. :p

JUST kidding!

I got your humor - the whole Sayid/Walt vision...You're too funny!!! :24:

i got it too but no humor for me right now when something confuses me ;)

And maybe Sawyer's hung like a horse? :D

And maybe Sawyer's hung like a horse? :D:rotflmao: :jump: :jump1: :24:

Anyway, is it important to know that the horse is not a farming horse? Farm horses have kinda poochy bellies, but that black horse was thin. Except for the nappy mane, its body was tight and muscley and shaped like a racehorse.

"Born to Run"

Racehorses are definitely born into racing - they are specially bred. So was that some allusion to her background (white trash farm girl with abusive step-dad etc like the marshall said) that made her "born to run" just like the racehorse? Or does it signify that she will spend the rest of her life running???

:horse:

I like this theory - good connection......

In chess, the horse represents a knight. This horse could represent a black knight (Sawyer). I think the horse also represented freedom and power.

was sawyer really kates father speaking when he tells jack "i love her"?

is the black horse a representation of kate's dead father? the horse appeared on the road when she wrecked, helping her to flee the marshall. it seems that the character's dead fathers return (whether the losties like them or not) to help their kids. jack's dad lead him to the waterfall, sawyer's boar, could vincent be linked to this as well?

I thought the same thing, on the I love you statement. I don't want to, cuz I want Sawyer to be talking about Kate, but after watching a second time I think you might be right.

Sawyer says, "You know that horse, Freckles?"

Kate said, "Ya I do"

...Anyway, if I remember correctly, there was a trophy on a mantle in Kate's house, right where the camera pans the room as she is helping 'ole drunko inside. It's nestled among a few pictures. I'm speculating maybe she rode a little bit and won? Could it possibly be a reason why they would choose a horse? Something "good" from her past?(Or am I really reaching on this one because it's way too late and I should be in bed already?:ohwell: )
Good catch crashsurvior -- there was a trophy (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=100) in Diane & bad dad's house! Maybe it is a racing trophy. Kate seemed to recognize the horse when it caused the accident with the marshal, and again, when she saw it in the jungle. Somehow the Island congers up people and things from the past; like the Nigerian airplane, Boone's nanny, Christian Shepard, the boar as the man Sawyer killed, Walt(?), Hurley's numbers, Shannon's song, Desmond, and now the horse.
I'd bet that Kate was somehow connected to that race horse in her past, at a time when she was good, before she "went to the dark side" and that somehow that horse manifests itself as her guardian angel of sorts.
Is it really true there will be no new shows aired until '06??:bawling:

Anyone see the black glove to the right of the screen at the end where the Horse appears in front of Kate and Sawyer?

Maybe it was just a trainer and accidently slipped past the editing process or maybe...THE OTHERS?

I didn't find anything about the horse in the boards.

Any expert on horses in the room? I have two questions:

1) Is the horse in Kate's flashback the same we see on the island?
2) How old is the horse on the island?

I'm pretty sure somebody can tell, at least the second one :)

I didn't find anything about the horse in the boards.

Any expert on horses in the room? I have two questions:

1) Is the horse in Kate's flashback the same we see on the island?
2) How old is the horse on the island?

I'm pretty sure somebody can tell, at least the second one :)

1) Sure looks like it. Same color, same stance, same markings, same head.
2) From 4 to 7 years old.

-NotPurgatory

Wow.

Now... how could it be the same horse?!

Then it appears again in this episode, when she has the desire to let go of her past, of Wayne, of the life she used to lead, so that she can feel comfortable with other people again, presumably with Sawyer. She wants to be absolved of what she did to Wayne, to an extent, anyway. I don't think she quite asked Wayne for forgiveness, but she sure came clean about her motives, perhaps in a way she had not done before? When she visited her mom, she implied that she'd done it for her mother, not for herself. She's let go of illusions. She's let go of dececption. She'll be Kate, for better or worse. Perhaps she in letting go of this, of Wayne, she is allowing herself to let go of the darkness she feels Wayne put in her by fathering her. Perhaps eventually she was realize it wasn't his fault. Or now. Actually, I'm not sure if I would like that at all. Either way, she has taken a huge step away from her old life.

Nice, Arcadia! Well thought out. These characters are all Lost, as we've speculated before. Now she's finding herself. Thanks for the insight.

It does appear to be the same horse (would make sense from a filming standpoint too, why have two similar horses for two different scenes that are supposed to look like each others, when you could use one?).

I don't know how BlueFrogBoogie could tell the age (great name by the way :smile: )... horse's ages are determined by the size of the teeth--hence the saying, "Getting long in the tooth." The horse looks to be in prime condition, and to be fully grown. So my estimate would be between three and ten years old. It's impossible to truly determine except by looking in the mouth--hence the saying, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Beautiful horse... Anyone know what the breed was? I was initially thinking Arabian, but the head didn't have dished out eyes like Egyptian and Russian Arabians do (Arabians' heads in profile are concave downward before sloping to the nose), though it could've possibly been a Polish Arabian. It was fairly tall, between sixteen and seventeen hands tall maybe? Would have to know Kate's height to tell for sure... maybe thoroughbred... although the musculature seemed more rounded than linear. Well, I know it wasn't a draft horse, or a pony, wasn't a Tennessee Walker, or Paso Fino... Anyone?

I think that the horse situation is much more cut and try than everyone is making it. To me, it was obvious that the horse was Wayne. Reincarnated. Same as what happened with Sawyers Boar. He killed the man in Austraila, and he came back as a Boar. Sawyer had to make peace with the boar before it would leave him alone. I think that now that Kate has made peace with Wayne (via the conversation she had with sawyer while he was apparently unconscious and responding to Wayne's name) we won't be seeing any more of the horse.

From a symbology in myth and lit website...

<H2>Horse: symbol of Friendship, freedom, power

The Horse is a symbol of friendship. It will:

bring protection to the home
bring out intuition
make burdens into victories
Power
Stamina
Freedom to run free
Throughout the ages, humans have successfully integrated with horses and interacted in a harmonious manner. Anyone who has spent time around horses knows that individual horses are unique in personality. Horses are dependable, trustworthy, thrive with mutual respect, and bring a special brand of joy and beauty to anyone who befriends them.
</H2>I have a horse tattoo because to me, a horse represents FREEDOM.

My take is the horse seems to be helping Kate and is on her side. It possibly represents Kate's freedom, both literally and symbolically. It helped her get free from the marshall by causing the car crash. On the island it helped her to let go of the pain of killing her father. It is very similar to Sawyer's boar.

Yep Yep Yep!

I think that the horse situation is much more cut and try than everyone is making it. To me, it was obvious that the horse was Wayne. Reincarnated. Same as what happened with Sawyers Boar. He killed the man in Austraila, and he came back as a Boar. Sawyer had to make peace with the boar before it would leave him alone. I think that now that Kate has made peace with Wayne (via the conversation she had with sawyer while he was apparently unconscious and responding to Wayne's name) we won't be seeing any more of the horse.

I don't think it was Wayne, She was honest voicing why she killed him, but that doesn't mean she would have been so happy to greet him (in the horse) and then smile about it contently. The conversation she had with him was still said with much anger, not very peacefully at all in my opinion.

Perhaps we are looking too much into it. yes it is one of the island's tricks that the horse is there. i agree. i also agree that she knows the horse. i just dont think it has any mystical or symbolic reason dating back to the Bible, death, or anything else. They might have used a horse simply because that is an animal that has no reason of being on an island.

I also believe the horse to Kate is a symbol of her youth and something that she was good at. i think she used to race or jump them because in the scene where she Charlie about the horse the thought was triggered by a branch hung over like a "jump"

The Horse is an OTHER!

j/k :24:

I believe that the horse represents her freedom as well. I like LostInHomework's post pointing out that this is a race horse and not a farming horse and how that ties in with Born To Run. Very nice. Interesting that Kate has experience with farms, yet is visited and assisted by this sort of horse.

Lot of good ideas here. But I'd like to point out that like everything else on LOST, the horse can be read on multiple levels, one of them entirely natural.

The accident: They were out on a country road. How likely is it that there would be a horse in a nearby field? How likely that it would be black? Nothing surprising about it.

Island horse: Now we know that there are domestic farm animals (the chicken) on the island as well as animals that can't possibly be there (the polar bears), a horse is plausible. The horse was real, and was pretty tame, not one that had run wild all its life. If the Others could have a boat with fuel, why not a horse?

What does the horse represent? Easier transportation so that the Lostaways can finally explore the island. While it's probably not wise for one person to go out alone (and Kate may be the only good rider among them), having the horse as a pack animal would make the going easier if two, three or four headed out on a walkabout.

IMO the horse represents Kate herself......

The first time we see the horse it takes off at speed, at this time it represents her going on the run.

The last time, after her confession to Sawyer, it's almost tame but still unsure. Now she has confessed her crime and is ready to go on with her life.

Personally I hated the horse really being on the island. It just doesn't make any sense. Unless it was some sort of collective hallucination. This was clearly a well kept horse not a wild one, a thourghrobred not something you'd find on the island. If we never see it again I'll be happy.

My comment was that it was an awfully well-groomed horse to be running around alone on the island. It's coat was nice and glossy, and its mane and tail were combed.

The Book of Revelation - Black Horse represents : Famine, The color "black" speaks of suffering, death and the balances of careful rationing of food because it is so scarce.....

interesting....

Beautiful horse... Anyone know what the breed was?

i was thinking it was a peruvian paso or paso fino, spanish looking for sure, one of the smoothest rides too :smile: i havent been able to re-watch yet and do close ups but that my opinion


one thing about kates horse, when they had the accident, it was white and then black when she looked at it by the roadside in the grass, and no i do not think it was just the headlights:hypocrit:

first post here so bear with me..

first horse, saved kate from marshall, let her get away
second horse, drew her into the forest, eventually jack came, kissed jack kinda realized she didn't want him, wanted sawyer (apparentally)
third horse, her and sawyer see the horse together, maybe a sign that they're supposed to be together?

not sure if that was already mentioned, but the horse seems to always guide kate along.

Maybe the horse is just part of the zoology experiment and it's just fate that Kate and the horse she knows ended up on the same island. (Like it's fate that all of these people that have at some point in their lives interacted with each other ended up on this same island.) Just a thought.

coincidence or fate? ; )

Isn't there supposedly an experiment by the hanso foundation about E.S.P? Maybe they have some ability to read minds and put animals that mean something to the losties on the island i.e. kate/horse, sawyer/boar, walt/polar bear. just a crazy thought that went through my mind

Am I understanding that what caused the accident was the black horse? I posted on the LLL that it was a deer. Has anyone posted caps to support this? Thanks for the help, I'm too lazy to go look today.

Am I understanding that what caused the accident was the black horse? I posted on the LLL that it was a deer. Has anyone posted caps to support this? Thanks for the help, I'm too lazy to go look today.

I really don't know, when it first ran by it sort of looked like a deer, but I don't have a picture of it...but I figured it was the horse because of Kate's initial reaction to the horse on the island.

Am I understanding that what caused the accident was the black horse? I posted on the LLL that it was a deer. Has anyone posted caps to support this? Thanks for the help, I'm too lazy to go look today.

WIF, I'm rewatching right now and just saw that scene. I went through it in slow motion. It's definitely a horse. Kate turns away from the Marshal, he's still looking at her, Kate looks out the windshield and yells "Look out!" You see the horse run in front of the car. The Marshal swerves and hits a tree. After Kate pushes him out of the car and starts to drive off, she sees the same horse on the side of the road. I don't have a SC, that's just from rewatching.

Isn't there supposedly an experiment by the hanso foundation about E.S.P? Maybe they have some ability to read minds and put animals that mean something to the losties on the island i.e. kate/horse, sawyer/boar, walt/polar bear. just a crazy thought that went through my mind

yep! fantasy island ..de plane de plane

WIF, I'm rewatching right now and just saw that scene. I went through it in slow motion. It's definitely a horse. Kate turns away from the Marshal, he's still looking at her, Kate looks out the windshield and yells "Look out!" You see the horse run in front of the car. The Marshal swerves and hits a tree. After Kate pushes him out of the car and starts to drive off, she sees the same horse on the side of the road. I don't have a SC, that's just from rewatching.

I watched again this morning and slowed and paused and it is a black horse. I think the whole idea here is to show the horse being there for her in these situations. Pretty sure we're supposed to think it's the same horse. At least I do. That's how I saw the horse.
Sorry, i can't so screen caps.

Thanks everyone

I was reading threads where they said the horse helped Kate by causing the accident and I was confused. It all makes perfect sense now.

I thought that the black horse was the spirit of her biological father, Wayne. First protecting her in death as he hadn't in life, then on the island forgiving her.

I agree that there are parallels to Sawyer's boar, though.

Just an opinion. :-)

I agree. And, I also think the boar was someone from Sawyer's past, maybe a parent, too.

There's a lot of symbology involved, that's for certain.

"So, what's the symbology of all this?"

The word I believe you're looking for is "symbolism."

Is it just me or was it a white horse that crossed by the car right before Kate and the Marshal crashed? I know that once the crash is over she sees a black horse but i could have sworn that for a split second I saw a white horse. Unfortunantly I cannot find a screen shot of it though...

My comment was that it was an awfully well-groomed horse to be running around alone on the island. It's coat was nice and glossy, and its mane and tail were combed.Plus it is comfortable with being around people. Obviously there is a Dude Ranch somewhere on the island. :biggrin: Horses make sense for a long term study taking place on the island. Think of them as a self reproducing means of transportation that does not require the importation of fuel (gas or diesel) and dos not require the existence of a road network, plus recreational use when off duty etc., etc. Whoever set up the bunkers could very well have imported horses if they intended a long term project.

Hmm my post does nothing to contribute to the symbology or symbolism involved.

"So, what's the symbology of all this?"

The word I believe you're looking for is "symbolism."I think Symbology is a better choice for the question than Symbolism, but it varies depending on which dictionary you use.

Just curious, did anyone notice when kate was carrying wade into the house as the camera panned behind it passed a cabinet with a small statue of a horse and some trophies.

Sreen capture -------> http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen.jpeg

Does anyone actually think there could be a link here, maybe the horse belonged to kate at some point in the past and she won the trophies for horse riding?

Just noticed aswell, in another screen shot you can see a small statue of the same black horse in front of the silver tin can.....

http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen2.jpeg

Many of the Lostaways are "Dark Horses", people with checkered pasts that we're rooting for.

On the practicle side, since there are Polar Bears on the island, why not a horse or two?

I have to admit that I was stoked when Kate first saw the horse, it was a classic LOST moment, the kind where I went "Huh?". That's why I keep coming back.:biggrin:

Here's sumptin' no one's mentioned:

* white polar bear
* black horse

both are animals that shouldn't be there... some connection with the backgammon/adam and eve black/white theme?

Maybe we will get to see an exciting fight scene between a horse and a polar bear!

In other news, anyone remember the mysterious white horse that appeared in the living room in Twin Peaks?

Is it just me or was it a white horse that crossed by the car right before Kate and the Marshal crashed? I know that once the crash is over she sees a black horse but i could have sworn that for a split second I saw a white horse. Unfortunantly I cannot find a screen shot of it though...

It was a black horse. I watched the scene a couple of times in slow motion. The car's headlights reflect off the horse's coat and that's what you saw. But you could still see that it was a black horse. The parts of the horse that the headlights did not reflect on still look black. Same horse.

Beautiful horse... Anyone know what the breed was? I was initially thinking Arabian, but the head didn't have dished out eyes like Egyptian and Russian Arabians do (Arabians' heads in profile are concave downward before sloping to the nose), though it could've possibly been a Polish Arabian. It was fairly tall, between sixteen and seventeen hands tall maybe? Would have to know Kate's height to tell for sure... maybe thoroughbred... although the musculature seemed more rounded than linear. Well, I know it wasn't a draft horse, or a pony, wasn't a Tennessee Walker, or Paso Fino... Anyone?

I thought it was too tall for an Arab and I agree the head didn't look right.
Actually, I was guessing a Morgan or a Thoroughbred, maybe a hunter/jumper.. which would go along with the trophy theory.

In other news, anyone remember the mysterious white horse that appeared in the living room in Twin Peaks?

YES!!!! That's actually the first thing that I thought of. But, that would be really creepy as the Twin Peaks horse, if you will remember, was something that Laura Palmer's mother saw whenever Bob was possessing her husband.

I always thought that a horse represented freedom and power...that can be tamed but always remains a bit wild.

Maybe that is just me though.

I saw the horse as being Kate's personal totem. In many spiritual traditions, one's personal totem - usually an animal - will appear at crossroads or other important moments to steer you along the right path or assist you. Like many have already said, it represents freedom. The horse totem symbolizes "new journeys". It will teach you to ride in new directions and discover your own freedom and power. It's also a guide to overcoming obstacles.

Just curious, did anyone notice when kate was carrying wade into the house as the camera panned behind it passed a cabinet with a small statue of a horse and some trophies.

Sreen capture -------> http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen.jpeg

Does anyone actually think there could be a link here, maybe the horse belonged to kate at some point in the past and she won the trophies for horse riding?If you go back a little further there's another picture that looks like Kate riding something?

This could have been Kate's horse, her escape when she couldn't stand it anymore, so yes it could represent her freedom. What happens if Wayne killed her horse? or burned her horse. What if all these nursing skills she's been exhibiting with Sawyer all came from nursing her horse?

I searched and did not find anything on my topic specifically.

I can't figure out what the horse means. It would be simple to say that it is freedom or her past. That she reconciled with one or both. However, the fact that the black horse appeared when she was driving off in the marshall's car causes me to pause. Was that horse real like the one on the island? Or was it a vision of the one on the island. If the same type of horse was actually in both places what might that mean?

Any ideas?

Yea that horse is really making my head hurt, I can't put my finger on the significance either.

On this site about animal symbolism, it has an explanation which I think fits rather well with Kate's problem overall and ties in with why she killed who she killed:

"The black horse in the book of Revelations relates to a necessary balance of the male and female qualities of the soul. Riding a black horse represents a need to control the energies of the body, usually sexual."

http://www.greatdreams.com/animals.htm

I think it was just an explanation on the flashback scene. She saw the horse on the island, and it reminded her of that one time she got arrested. I mean it's not something one goes around thinking about all the time.

I'm a jerk.

The horse is her guardian angel. For Charlie it was a moth and for Hurley a chicken, cluck, cluck!

I agree with Moriquenya, for me the black horse is not a biblical symbol or anything from mythology particularly, but something of a spirit guide for Kate. The horse as a symbol often represents freedom, strength, beauty, and of course in the case of that classic 'wild horse' image, an unwillingness to be caught or tamed, the idea of always being 'on the run'. Which are all things I think Kate would identify with.

I dont think in reality that the two black horses we see are the actual same horse (although it's extremely likely the same horse was used for filming). I think the black horse on the island is either an escapee of the darma animal testing enclosure, or perhaps a decendant of horses being transported on the Black Rock slave ship? There could be an entire herd out there if this was the case!

When Kate says she knows the horse, I see it that she recognises in this horse on the island the same guardian spirit that protected her before. I dont think she actually believes it to be the exact same living horse.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the horse used is an andalucian? Its a spanish breed often used for films becuase they're so pretty! Heh:)

http://www.eazymerchant.com/bdposters/images/itempictures/01-0261_lg.jpg

A night Mare perhaps?

Brilliant!!

:clapping:

Here is some info on the Horse as a Chinese Zodiac symbol taken from Wikipedia. Tell me this doesnt match Kate's personality...

Horse Female

The female Horse is very much the eternal rebel -- she will not tolerate authority of any sort, and prefers the lead to any subordinate role. You are elegant and well groomed, and have mastered the art of arriving "fashionably late" for any social function. Your delightful appearance fairly cries out for the maximum of positive attention. You are completely self-absorbed, and should your partner try to intrude upon your problems with those of their own, the result will be one of those carefully stage-managed scenes that you thrive upon to inject variety into your life. Despite the need for a foil, you do appreciate the necessity for a fine and private place of your very own, where you can curl up and lick away any wounds that your heart has handed you recently

Horse in Love

Horse people in love are eternally young at heart. They sail through life on a whim, spontaneous and open-minded, always watching and waiting for the next big adventure to come along and fall into their laps. Horse persons are charming and affectionate, and full of vim and vigor when it comes to the more physical manifestations of love -- such as dancing. They inspire all those around them with their imagination and vigor, their intellect and their wit. They make potential mates want to get to know them better, and thus hardly have problems securing Saturday night dates. It may be difficult for their current love interest to bring them to a more permanent affectionate arrangement, but it will lots of fun with the Horse while it lasts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_%28Zodiac%29

On this site about animal symbolism, it has an explanation which I think fits rather well with Kate's problem overall and ties in with why she killed who she killed:

"The black horse in the book of Revelations relates to a necessary balance of the male and female qualities of the soul. Riding a black horse represents a need to control the energies of the body, usually sexual."

http://www.greatdreams.com/animals.htm

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Wayne.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Wayne.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Wayne will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. I am Mister Wayne.

Mr Shark: I don't know if the motive for your post was to merely to amuse (which it did :biggrin: ! ) but the theory contained within it is no worse than all this talk of symbolism.

Did anyone see a Dharma brand on it anywhere, a la the shark fin? :confused:

yay for integrating threads! also, wow, the horse can mean so many things.

I'm totally confused. Who is the horse supposed to be/ what does it represent?

Black Horse = Night Mare (nightmare)? This is what came to me as I was watching the show. The term nightmare came from the idea that a black horse that took you for a ride in your sleep.

Death rode on a pale horse didn't he?

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Wayne.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Wayne.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Wayne will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. I am Mister Wayne.


Didn't really search for more posts about this, but here in Germany the horse was called Mr. Ed, not Mr. Wayne. If I recall correctly, the song wasn't dubbed in German TV.
Long, long time ago.
And I didn't really like the message of this 60th(?)-comedy: There were a couple and a horse, some neighbours.. The male part of the couple from time time claimed to be the one who earns the money - considering his wife as a dumb, blonde *whatever* (don't know how to express my thoughts, as I am blonde, too).

I don't think that the black stallion has anything to do with TV-Mr. Ed/Mr. Wayne.

Mr Shark: I don't know if the motive for your post was to merely to amuse (which it did :biggrin: ! ) but the theory contained within it is no worse than all this talk of symbolism.

Actually, my initial thought was "Sometimes a horse is just a horse." While I was trying to remember the reference for the original quote (where "horse" was something else, probably Freudean), the Mr. Ed theme popped into my RTG (random thought generator) and the rest is obvious.
(Edit) The change from "Mr. Ed" to "Mr. Wayne" was mostly a joke, but who knows? Perhaps the horse is channeling Kate's father, but we'll probably never know that for sure unless it talks! :rolleyes:

No, I, What?! Stop it! LMAO

I think the horse appeared to Kate when she entered her life of crime, and then again when she was finally ready to leave it behind.

It came first when she was able to steal the marshall's car and run. This is interesting, because it is her second and not her frist crime. If she had only commited the one crime, and then gotten away with it, there is a chance she would have led an otherwise normal life. The marshall did mention, after all, that she had straigt-As (odd, since she did not got to college) and no record (aside from speeding tickets). However, after the marshall catches her and she is forced to run, at some point she will learn how to use a gun, she was be involved in circumstances that lead to Tom's death, she will manipulate men into robbing a bank with her only to betray them by shotting them so that she can steal Tom's toy airplane, she will flee to Australia, among who know what else. I think that fleeing from the marshall changed her life more drastically than the original murder did, if you think of it this way.

Then it appears again in this episode, when she has the desire to let go of her past, of Wayne, of the life she used to lead, so that she can feel comfortable with other people again, presumably with Sawyer. She wants to be absolved of what she did to Wayne, to an extent, anyway. I don't think she quite asked Wayne for forgiveness, but she sure came clean about her motives, perhaps in a way she had not done before? When she visited her mom, she implied that she'd done it for her mother, not for herself. She's let go of illusions. She's let go of dececption. She'll be Kate, for better or worse. Perhaps she in letting go of this, of Wayne, she is allowing herself to let go of the darkness she feels Wayne put in her by fathering her. Perhaps eventually she was realize it wasn't his fault. Or now. Actually, I'm not sure if I would like that at all. Either way, she has taken a huge step away from her old life.

The term Dark Horse is symbolic of something, I just can't remember what. George Harrison...but something else. Does anyone know?

slantnames, this is what I found on Dark Horse

http://www.darkhorse.com/

Dark Horse Comics, Inc.

publishing a diverse line of comics, including Hellboy, Star Wars, and Usagi Yojimbo. Offers company information, titles, news, and more. Also provides resources tailored for use by retailers, businesses, and librarians.

Wikipedia - Dark Horse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_horse

The question I have- how many times has she seen this horse? Is it a childhood horse from her Iowa farm? Is it a horse that appeared at another significant time in her life (aside from the three we saw?)

The question I have- how many times has she seen this horse? Is it a childhood horse from her Iowa farm? Is it a horse that appeared at another significant time in her life (aside from the three we saw?)There is a picture on the shelves when we first get into Wayn's house, it looks like Kate riding. Also when Sawyer asked if she knew this horse, Kate smiled and said yes. I think it brought good memories.

And of course, Dark Horse is a terrific album by George Harrison. And his record label.

Anyway, all I could think was WHAT A BEAUTIFUL HORSE!!! I hope someone who knows something about horses will post what kind of horse it is, really pretty.

It looked to me like a spanish type... build and neck carriage matched, as did the way he carried himself and moved. My first thought is Lustiano... possibly Andalusion. One's really just the portuguese cousin of the other. Andalusions tend to be grey or bay though, blacks are more rare.

I googled black Lustinano and found this site--- I want this horse:
http://www.iberische-pferde.de/seite3.htm

Black Andalusion came up with this site with a nice black andalusion: http://www.dakotawindsandalusians.com/valeroso.htm
Yeah, I want him too... :) Both to me share a nice resemblance to Kate's steed.

I noticed someone brought up race horses-- not to kick your theory in anyway, but in my opinion he is definately not Thoroughbred. Conformation is all wrong for a TB, and the neck carriage is too high, crest too arched. Conformation doesn't look anything like a quarter horse to me either.

Also, I've been working with horses for 15 years, mostly with Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods. This boy was much too heavy to be coming from the track. I've worked with quite a few off track thoroughbreds over the years, and a racing fit horse is kept very thin, with muscling in the shoulder and quarters. Extra weight in a race horse not only will make them slower, but also make them more likely to break. Any extra stress on the legs is avoided.

I still remember when one of the boarders at the barn got her thoroughbred, two weeks after running his last race. You could count every rib and his hips were sticking out so badly that he got rub sores for the stall mats on the points of his hips. It took about half a year to get him up to a normal weight and starting to muscle out like a hunter.

And I'm babbling, so let me figure out what my point was and... oh, yeah, it was that to me, he looked like a horse that was riding fit, rather than track fit. But as I said, just my humble opinion on the matter.

I thought it was too tall for an Arab and I agree the head didn't look right.
Actually, I was guessing a Morgan or a Thoroughbred, maybe a hunter/jumper.. which would go along with the trophy theory.

I've been working with hunter/jumpers for 15 years, and he didn't look the right type for H/J to me or had the proper movement when he trotted. His mane looked too long to me to be a jumping horse. If the mane is too long, when you give your release you run the risk of the reins getting tangled in the mane... I saw this happen once... it was scary.

His build and movement immediately made me think of spanish breeds-- Lustinano, Andalusion, Lippizan, they all have a similar carriage and way of going. He wasn't a Lippizaner for sure, so I lean towards the other two...

Wonder if we can find credits anywhere for him... :)

CaraRose...was it the same horse, in all the sightings? marshall's car wreck, jungle sightings 1 and 2? And was the statue at Wayne's house the same or comparable breed?

CaraRose...was it the same horse, in all the sightings? marshall's car wreck, jungle sightings 1 and 2? And was the statue at Wayne's house the same or comparable breed?

It's pretty hard to ever say for sure, I've seen more than a few horses that were nearly identical. If it was more than one horse, they were close enough to pass for each other, and I do believe they were meant to be the same horse. But just my opinion there, of course. It was the same color, breed, and type for sure.

Unfortunately, I've yet to see a screenshot of the statues in Wayne's house that are even remotely clear enough to tell what kind of horse they're meant to be. Half the time I'm squinting trying to tell if they really are both horses :)

Thanks, CaraRose...

I'm multi-posting to get an answer, please...
Well, this is getting curiouser and curiouser. I was just re-viewing WKD, and in the car wreck scene, with the marshall, just as the horse runs in front of the car...it sure looks like a closeup of a lion's face, just above the hindquarters of the horse. It disappears (or the camera moves) and then it is there again...and then the horse has run across the screen....

Is it just me (or my grainy tape)?

A night Mare perhaps?

Niiiiiice..... :D

IMO the horse represents Kate herself......



My mom had a similar theory but it went farther than that...


1) The dad that got killed kept saying she was beautiful
2) since she had "murder in her heart" she was the BLACK sheep of the family since she had actually killed not just beat up like the real dad & stuff....

therefore.... (according to my mom)

She saw her self as... BLACK BEAUTY! ... & so knew the horse.

I don't remember the book (I did a book report in like 3rd grade on a typewriter that had the "z" button broken - you never realize how often you use that letter till it's gone...).

All I remember is that it was a black horse w/ a white diamond on the forehead. But my mom taped over Lost b/f I could double check her theory & see if it had any diamond distinguishing marks on it...

My mom had a similar theory but it went farther than that...


1) The dad that got killed kept saying she was beautiful
2) since she had "murder in her heart" she was the BLACK sheep of the family since she had actually killed not just beat up like the real dad & stuff....

therefore.... (according to my mom)

She saw her self as... BLACK BEAUTY! ... & so knew the horse.

I don't remember the book (I did a book report in like 3rd grade on a typewriter that had the "z" button broken - you never realize how often you use that letter till it's gone...).

All I remember is that it was a black horse w/ a white diamond on the forehead. But my mom taped over Lost b/f I could double check her theory & see if it had any diamond distinguishing marks on it...The horse was completely one color. If not Black, then very dark brown.http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=934

Posted this elsewhere and am hitting the "horse" threads to share....

Some horse page while exploring...
http://www.equinecolor.com/color.html

In first paragraph it says,
"All colors are a result of at least 16 known factors that interact to produce each unique color and pattern."
There's one of those numbers again. Coincidence. Right? i dunno.

Under the first paragraph on colors hit the link for Black (http://www.equinecolor.com/black.html) and it takes u to black horses.
http://www.wikipedia.org/ started me off.
Nifty stuff there too but nothing that struck me as "LOST-like".

Kate first saw the Horse when she was on the Lam. It ran away from her then, and again when she saw it on the Island. When she admitted to herself about her father, the Horse appeared again, and this time approached her. Methinks, Daddy and Horse are somehow connected. Or perhaps the Horse represents her facing herself after such time hiding what she had done. Did Morals ever come riding in on a Black Horse?

It does appear to be the same horse (would make sense from a filming standpoint too, why have two similar horses for two different scenes that are supposed to look like each others, when you could use one?).

I don't know how BlueFrogBoogie could tell the age (great name by the way :smile: )... horse's ages are determined by the size of the teeth--hence the saying, "Getting long in the tooth." The horse looks to be in prime condition, and to be fully grown. So my estimate would be between three and ten years old. It's impossible to truly determine except by looking in the mouth--hence the saying, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Beautiful horse... Anyone know what the breed was? I was initially thinking Arabian, but the head didn't have dished out eyes like Egyptian and Russian Arabians do (Arabians' heads in profile are concave downward before sloping to the nose), though it could've possibly been a Polish Arabian. It was fairly tall, between sixteen and seventeen hands tall maybe? Would have to know Kate's height to tell for sure... maybe thoroughbred... although the musculature seemed more rounded than linear. Well, I know it wasn't a draft horse, or a pony, wasn't a Tennessee Walker, or Paso Fino... Anyone?

i was thinking it was a peruvian paso or paso fino, spanish looking for sure, one of the smoothest rides too :smile: i havent been able to re-watch yet and do close ups but that my opinion


one thing about kates horse, when they had the accident, it was white and then black when she looked at it by the roadside in the grass, and no i do not think it was just the headlights:hypocrit:


I thought it was too tall for an Arab and I agree the head didn't look right.
Actually, I was guessing a Morgan or a Thoroughbred, maybe a hunter/jumper.. which would go along with the trophy theory.
The Season 2 DVD bonus disk has an "On Location" segment about "What Kate Did". And it shows them filming the "horse and Kate in the jungle" scene. According to the trainer, the horse is a Friesian (http://www.friesianhorsesociety.com/Home.html) horse, mixed with Saddlebred (http://www.asha.net/), 3.5 years old and female (even though one of the crew called it a stallion). And her name is "Black Pearl"!:)

its definitely something more from her past other than when we saw it in the flashback