Does this statement mean Eko does not have the same level of belief in fate that Locke does?

i think eko has faith, while locke believes more in fate--two different things, but i'm not sure he was referring to this. he may have just wanted locke to understand the difference between the two.

Coincidence:

an event that might have been arranged although it was really accidental
the quality of occupying the same position or area in space; "he waited for the coincidence of the target and the cross hairs"
concurrence: the temporal property of two things happening at the same time; "the interval determining the coincidence gate is adjustable"
the ratio of the observed frequency of double crossings-over to the expected frequency, where the expected frequency is calculated by assuming that the two crossing-over events occur independently of each other.
a coincidence occurs when unexpected parallels can be drawn from two or more events. In the popular sense it is used to describe events (or, more accurately, combinations of two or more events) which are of low probability.Fate:

destiny: an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
destiny: the ultimate agency that predetermines the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of Destiny"
destiny or Fate concerns the fixed natural order of the universe. It is the invincible necessity to which even the gods must accede, as the Sibyl of Delphi confessed. Destiny is fate, personified in Greek culture by the three Moirae (called the Parcae by the Romans), with a Nordic counterpart in the three Norns. The "doom of the powers" in Norse mythology is Ragnarok the battle which even Odin must inevitably face, at the end of the world.
the destined result of life after a sequence of fated events. Kismet, Karma, destiny are other names.
the normal outcome of differentiation of a cell’s progeny.
fate, even in the waking world, has a wide variety of misconceptions and misunderstandings. As a dream symbol, it becomes that much more complex to interpret. If, in your dream you recognize that you are on a path that is motivated by fate or, a dream character actually tells you that fate has a hand in your life direction, you can be certain that you are experiencing a profound and meaningful dream experience.

Beagle1962--excellent post. Clarifies things greatly... I thought it was interesting that he said it the way he did, placing coincidence before fate. He was distinguishing between the two insinuating that he did not believe it was fate.

In Locke's situation, I'd be hard pressed to say there wasn't some guiding force behind those events. Not necessarily a divine force (could be those things were left for the tailies to find, seemed odd the first time they saw the door to the arrow hatch it was uncovered), could be humans, tipping the scales here and there--dharma industries still at work in some way.

Will be interesting to see how they interact in the future. I sensed a distinct discrepancy between their views.

Actually, I think it was just the opposite. Locke thought it was coincidence, and Eko thought it was fate. Mainly because Locke kept saying "What are the odds?" and all that. It seems to me that Eko has faith in God while Locke has Faith in the island. They are completely different things.

I agree, and didn't it seem that Locke got a little uncomfortable when Eko was telling him the Old Testament story?

I think eko has faith, while locke believes more in fate--two different things.

Indeed.

One who has Faith lives their life according to what that Faith dictates. The "answer" for them has already been found. Because they have found the "answer" the "search" for or path to relevance becomes less important the need to fulfill the expectations of that Faith. The idea of pre-determination is in opposition in this circumstance because that would mean that whatever path you take will lead you to the "answer." This would be impossible for one who has Faith because they know that there is only one path not many.

For the one who believes in Fate and Destiny the path is irrelevant because you will find the answer no matter which one you take. This is why Eko warns of confusing coincidence and Fate because that is a perscription for distraction and error that causes one to deviate from the path of Faith.

With the story that Eko told from the Bible he was trying to show Locke that he was one who believed that instead of trying to walk all the various paths the island presented that one should instead affirm Faith through what is already "known." In this case the point is made through the passage about the re-affirmation of the Covenant. That the Temple built to demonstrate the people's Faith cannot come from gold but from the word of God that the people should already know.

The lesson then becomes that coincidence has placed the lostaways on a strange Island but do not become distracted by the paths it presents and instead work from the Faith you should already have from the life prior to the crash. Unfortunately the test of Faith is that everyone that is on the Island seems to have every reason to be lost.

Their Souls are wildernesses from which they must find their way out of. Every one of them seems to have a reason why being stranded on the Island is not such a great issue. In the life prior to the crash each one had tremenedous turmoil going on in their lives that seem to make finding a place to get away from it all not such a bad idea.

While each one probably wished they could get away from their problems on an island in the middle of nowhere they never though it would become a literal reality for them. Now that the wish for "escape" has come true they are left to wrestle the demons and are trying to find a way to reclaim their lives both physically and meta-physically. In their way is the distraction of the Island. A place of coincidence that exists in it's own reality but presents the opportunity to become distracted by it's unique characteristics. That distraction stymies the effort to find one's way through the wilderness.

I am sure this makes sense to no one but me. And then again maybe not even me.

but it does make sense, diaz. the escape (running away from problems) that each of them was seeking, in his/her own way, as "salvation" turned out to be the very thing that forces them to face their "demons". the question is will they rely on faith or fate to see them through?

I loved that line. To me, it just sounded like a calm, polite way of saying"Whatever, nutso." Actually, hearing him say that might have been even funnier. :)

Diaz, Makes very good sense. I would only point out that "faith" can also lead to a "knowing" based only on what you have been told to believe in, never questioning or opening yourself up to new ideas. So I would argue there is Faith, Fate and a knowing that you can control your own destiny. Maybe the later is what the losties are finding out.

ACtually, I think I interpeded that scene a little differently than you guys... when Eko said "Do not mistake coincidence for fate" the look Locke gave him seemed to say "You're right, it was fate." After all, remember Locke's speech to Jack in Exodus. He's a firm believer in destiny which is obviously bound to fate. He made it quite clear to Jack that none of this was an accident. In fact, his exact words are:

"Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident - that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence - especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason."

Notice his use of the word coincidence... he clearly doesn't believe in it.

My interpetation of the Locke/Eko scene was that Locke got so excited that this stranger he just met happened to be carrying the missing piece that he forgot about fate for a minute, and had to be reminded by Eko. I think the point of that scene was to establish Locke and Eko, not as rivals, but as friends, or maybe even brothers (in a figurative sense of course). After all, we already have the big established rivalry with Jack/Locke, why create another?

Also, I don't think Locke was getting uncomfortable with the whole Old Testament thing. I don't thik he has another against religion either... he even refered to Jesus as "Jesus Christ", something I've never heard someone that wasn't Christian do. Maybe he believes it, just doens't practice it as much as Eko does.

I found very telling that Eko made sure he told the story about the re-affirmation of the Covenant prior to giving him the missing piece of film. He even asked if Locke knew the "story." As Eko may have guessed about Locke so far, he did not.

This was an important "lesson" for Eko to try and get across because while may have found the idea of giving Locke another reason to trust Fate instead of Faith he knows that the only real way to affirm Faith is by confronting those elements that distract you from it.

I saw things a little differently. I felt as if Eko was saying it was a coincidence and didn't want Locke to get caught up believing in fate. I think this point will be their ultimate point of dispute.

Eko seems like the ultimate man of faith. He believes he has free will and must act upon it, but does not get rattled because he believes everything will work out as it should at the end.

Locke seems like the ultimate man of fate. He doesn't believe he has free will and cannot act without being "led" by "signs" and is easily rattled because he does not know how everything will work out.

ACtually, I think I interpeded that scene a little differently than you guys... when Eko said "Do not mistake coincidence for fate" the look Locke gave him seemed to say "You're right, it was fate." After all, remember Locke's speech to Jack in Exodus. He's a firm believer in destiny which is obviously bound to fate. He made it quite clear to Jack that none of this was an accident. In fact, his exact words are:

"Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident - that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence - especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason."

Notice his use of the word coincidence... he clearly doesn't believe in it.

My interpetation of the Locke/Eko scene was that Locke got so excited that this stranger he just met happened to be carrying the missing piece that he forgot about fate for a minute, and had to be reminded by Eko. I think the point of that scene was to establish Locke and Eko, not as rivals, but as friends, or maybe even brothers (in a figurative sense of course). After all, we already have the big established rivalry with Jack/Locke, why create another?

Also, I don't think Locke was getting uncomfortable with the whole Old Testament thing. I don't thik he has another against religion either... he even refered to Jesus as "Jesus Christ", something I've never heard someone that wasn't Christian do. Maybe he believes it, just doens't practice it as much as Eko does.

I understand what you are saying and you are right we do see it differently. The quote you gave by Locke to Jack last season is an affirmation that Locke believes in Fate and not coincidence. His spiel tonight about the missing splice was another exposition on how finding it was an example of Fate NOT an example of coincidence.

Eko clearly sees the danger, in his mind, of relying on Fate instead of Faith. Happenstance and coincidence exist for the sake of themselves not at the whim of Fate. He tells Locke to not confuse the two. Locke's profession of Faith is a False Faith. Hence Eko's being sure to tell Locke the story of the re-affirmation of the Covenant. This lesson could come from many places but since Eko seems to be religious he uses the Old Testament.

Locke does not believe in coincidence. He has shown it time and again. It was even shown when we saw the last confrontation between him and hid "Dad." In that scene his Dad told him there was not an explantion for why he did what he did. "Do you think you are the only person that has ever been conned?" was the approximate line.

Locke thought it was the fulfilment of Fate to find his Dad when in reality it was simply a means to an end. It was a distraction from Faith. A path that leads you away from what you should know (or have Faith in.) In the case of Locke and his Dad, Locke should have Faith in the fact that his Dad used him him to get a kidney he needed and that is all he wanted from Locke.

Instead of accepting that, Locke continued to believe that there had to be more and that Fate would not be so cruel. He is always de-crying out loud why he is being forsaken. If he had Faith he would realize it does not ever forsake you, instead he is the false-believer that searches endlessly for an answer to which he does even know the question. In his version of Faith (Fate based faith) he looks for "favor" but does not realize that "true" Faith does not give favor but rather expects it in return.

For me there is no doubt that Locke is the antithesis to Eko.

But we do not know that coincidence is not a part of fate.

I think that Locke and Eko will be allies, but I think that Locke and Eko both posess faith, but a different type of faith. I don't know if Locke believes in Jesus or Christian beliefs, but he has faith in destiny and fate. Eko on the other hand has faith in Christ, and Christian beliefs, and the Bible it seems. However, there is harm in believing in the Bible as well, because we do not know of its true origins and obviously meanings have changed over time. We cannot be sure the Bible is literally the word of God, so by putting faith into the Bible, it is like worshiping a false God. I'm not so sure if Locke worships a false God, but he seems to place all his faith into the island, or at least his destiny of coming to the island, if that makes sense. He believes they have all come here for their own personal reasons, that each one of them is like a piece of a gigantic puzzle, and I have to agree. It is too coincidental that these types of people have crashed on that island and how they crashed on that island, for it to be just coincidence. It is also too coincidental that Eko and Locke found two pieces of the puzzle on opposite sides of the island and basically came into contact with each other shortly after finding each piece.

I sort of rambled up above, but that is how I am looking at the situation.

Actually, I think it was just the opposite. Locke thought it was coincidence, and Eko thought it was fate. Mainly because Locke kept saying "What are the odds?" and all that. It seems to me that Eko has faith in God while Locke has Faith in the island. They are completely different things.

Absolutely agree. Also, faith seems much newer to Locke than it does to Eko.

All I'm going to say is this - I absolutely love the interaction between Locke and Eko.

Also, I don't think Locke was getting uncomfortable with the whole Old Testament thing. I don't thik he has another against religion either... he even refered to Jesus as "Jesus Christ", something I've never heard someone that wasn't Christian do. Maybe he believes it, just doens't practice it as much as Eko does.

He didn't seem uncomfortable to me as much as wary. He had that sort of defensive smile or half-frozen smile that says, "I've met a few nuts who said what you are about to say." He had no idea what Eko was about to say. :D

I thought it was interesting that Locke finally admitted to not knowing something- twice in this episode! First with the blast doors, and second with the Bible story. Now the blast doors are understandible- an obscure bit of knowlege. The Bible story, however- I though it was odd that Locke would be unfamiliar with the Bible, even though he's not a Christian. Many non-Christians read the Bible because it's so heavily quoted in arguements and liturature. No matter what your take on it, it's a very relevant book. It just strikes me as something Locke would have read.

Although maybe the writers were just trying to show the wide divide between Locke's island faith and Eko's faith in God.

little hijack- does anyone think that the mention of Desmond's name might mean that we'll see him return soon? Just a little 'hey, don't forget about him, he's coming back!' heads up from TPTB?

I think it can be taken either way, as of yet. He either meant that Locke was seeing it as coincidence, and should see it as faith; or that Locke was seeing it as faith, and should see it as coincidence.

Either way, Locke was clearly only testing him. Locke knew immediately that he was a man of faith, just like himself. That whole "What are the odds" repition was so un-Locke-like it's clear he was saying it to test ol' Eko's reaction. Locke's sizing him up, seeing what kind of person he is.

little hijack- does anyone think that the mention of Desmond's name might mean that we'll see him return soon? Just a little 'hey, don't forget about him, he's coming back!' heads up from TPTB?

From your keyboard to JJ's ears....errr.......eyes.

I think it can be taken either way, as of yet. He either meant that Locke was seeing it as coincidence, and should see it as faith; or that Locke was seeing it as faith, and should see it as coincidence.

Either way, Locke was clearly only testing him. Locke knew immediately that he was a man of faith, just like himself. That whole "What are the odds" repition was so un-Locke-like it's clear he was saying it to test ol' Eko's reaction. Locke's sizing him up, seeing what kind of person he is.

I didn't think of it that way, good point, he could of been sizing him up.

thought it was interesting that Locke finally admitted to not knowing something- twice in this episode! First with the blast doors, and second with the Bible story. Now the blast doors are understandible- an obscure bit of knowlege. The Bible story, however- I though it was odd that Locke would be unfamiliar with the Bible, even though he's not a Christian. Many non-Christians read the Bible because it's so heavily quoted in arguements and liturature. No matter what your take on it, it's a very relevant book. It just strikes me as something Locke would have read.

Although maybe the writers were just trying to show the wide divide between Locke's island faith and Eko's faith in God.



Well I can't speak for Locke but I can speak for myself. I am a Christian, but I do not read the Bible. I have read parts of the Bible growing up in the Church, but now that I am a bit older, I don't read it and am familiar with certain stories but not everything, nor could I quote a bunch of scripture. So, it is possible for Locke to be a Christian, but not know anything about the Bible or very little information about it.

He may view the Bible in the same way I do, in that I do not believe the Bible to be the word of God, I believe it to be the word of man, and while some stories may stem from truth, most of them may have come down to know more than a stretched version of what had actually happened. I think that the Old Testament is basically a bunch of stories about morality. They are written like children's tales in which you are supposed to take away a lesson or moral from the story. So, I don't find it to be terribly accurate, and many of the beliefs are dated, so I find little use with it, but that is my own beliefs and opinions. But anyway, he could have some of the same views on the Bible as I do.

I think what Ecko meant by his comment is to be cautious. He picked up the bible in the tailees hatch because he is obviously religious and probably thought it could be useful to him. Soon after looking, he seems to find a film by complete coincidence and false premise. He hangs on to it.

After more turmoil similar to what they what they experienced ( a kidnapping, a shooting) they seemingly find other survivors and another part of the film. Even to a man of Ecko's extreme faith thinks this seems way far fetched.

John on the always the hand, always seems to believe, even though it seems hard to sometimes.

Blind faith, vs realism?

"Do not mistake coincidence for fate"

This must be the best catch-phrase of this season, wont u all agree ?

Locke has Faith in the Island, Eko has Faith...
Faith, regardless of directions give people a shared compass.
Religion in all its form exists as the tool of standards to all humans.

So maybe its basically just a common ground for Locke and Eko. But i hope they are to be friends... too much internal fights up till now. The Losties need to join forces to stay strong against whatever new threats "the others" , and the other "others" and the island has in store for them.

Well I can't speak for Locke but I can speak for myself. I am a Christian, but I do not read the Bible. I have read parts of the Bible growing up in the Church, but now that I am a bit older, I don't read it and am familiar with certain stories but not everything, nor could I quote a bunch of scripture. So, it is possible for Locke to be a Christian, but not know anything about the Bible or very little information about it.

He may view the Bible in the same way I do, in that I do not believe the Bible to be the word of God, I believe it to be the word of man, and while some stories may stem from truth, most of them may have come down to know more than a stretched version of what had actually happened. I think that the Old Testament is basically a bunch of stories about morality. They are written like children's tales in which you are supposed to take away a lesson or moral from the story. So, I don't find it to be terribly accurate, and many of the beliefs are dated, so I find little use with it, but that is my own beliefs and opinions. But anyway, he could have some of the same views on the Bible as I do.

My belief that Locke is not a Christian has nothing to do with his not having read the Bible and everything to do with his worshiping the island. Island worship is about as far from Christianity as you're gonna get, bar outright Satanism.
I'm a Christian (20 years old) and I'm slowly working my way through the Bible right now. But like I said- I would have expected that Locke would have read the Bible no matter what his beliefs, simply because it's a highly relevant book and Locke seems to be a collector of knowlege. Reading the Bible to gain an ability to randomly quote it as he sees fit seems like a very "Locke" thing to do, don't you think?

All I'm going to say is this - I absolutely love the interaction between Locke and Eko.

I do too!

It seemed to be that Locke was trying to steer his thinking a certain direction, and that Eko saw through it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Eko also spotted Locke at some point, lurking around in the jungle...

"Do not mistake coincidence for fate"

This must be the best catch-phrase of this season, wont u all agree ?

Locke has Faith in the Island, Eko has Faith...
Faith, regardless of directions give people a shared compass.
Religion in all its form exists as the tool of standards to all humans.

So maybe its basically just a common ground for Locke and Eko. But i hope they are to be friends... too much internal fights up till now. The Losties need to join forces to stay strong against whatever new threats "the others" , and the other "others" and the island has in store for them.


Agreed.

You know, initially I thought Eko was saying it was coincidence. Then I realized it was Locke that was referring to coincidence and Eko was calling it fate - something Locke preaches all the time. I think there will be a lot of parallels between these two in the future.

Indeed.

The lesson then becomes that coincidence has placed the lostaways on a strange Island but do not become distracted by the paths it presents and instead work from the Faith you should already have from the life prior to the crash. Unfortunately the test of Faith is that everyone that is on the Island seems to have every reason to be lost.


Very good Diaz - I totally agree!

Anyone want to comment on how the Locke/Eko interaction relates to the Gilgamesh/Enkidu relationship. I think there is definitely something there!

Have you guys noticed that the people who are the opposites of one another with the common threads theme? Faith is the common thread. But Eko and Locke are the opposites of the same argument. Eko is a realist - he puts his faith into practice but does not live in fantasy. Locke is a dreamer - he puts his faith in what he perceives as the "magic" of the island and Fate.

In a spiritual tug of war, I will choose Eko. He lives in the real world.

Originally Posted by John_Locke http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/misc/backlink.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28134#post638740)
"Do not mistake coincidence for fate"

This must be the best catch-phrase of this season, wont u all agree ?

Locke has Faith in the Island, Eko has Faith...
Faith, regardless of directions give people a shared compass.
Religion in all its form exists as the tool of standards to all humans.

Hehehe yes that's exactly what i was thinking when it aired....
my immediate thoughts were, hmmm now that was a blatent out there clue for us all and the upcoming future epis...


Agreed.

You know, initially I thought Eko was saying it was coincidence. Then I realized it was Locke that was referring to coincidence and Eko was calling it fate - something Locke preaches all the time. I think there will be a lot of parallels between these two in the future.

yes i believe that too, and Eko was just reaffirming there is a difference between the two and giving a guiding remark to locke about Fate... Eko doesn't realise it yet but Locke and him are very much in the same realm... remember these two are complete strangers and only now beginning to unravel the outer layers of each others being...

Diamondone:biggrin:

I don't believe that Locke was having less faith or belief in fate. He was mainly commenting to a stranger (Eko) about this, saying "What are the odds". He clearly could've been saying "Check these odds on this, it is no far out there that there must be some guiding force, or forces, for us to find this".
What was cool is that Eko answered in a way that clearly suggests that he and John Locke have a lot in common.
My point is, it would've been much more clear if Jack and Eko had been talking. Jack would've counted it as mere coincidence. Because Eko was talking with John, a stranger to Eko, he suggested that this was not chance, but fate; not knowing that he was talking to another man that believes in more than coincidence.

Does this statement mean Eko does not have the same level of belief in fate that Locke does?
Well, the following doesn't specifically speak to the statement in your subject line from Eko to Locke, but it gives my take on what Eko seemed to be trying to impart to Locke throughout the course of the episode vis a vie "fate": http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=639353#post639353

Hey there just a thought goin back to the story eko was talking about. I do not think that Eko might be Christian at all. When he refered to the old testiment , he fristly calls it the book of law. The tenkah/torah is also called the book of law and is the scripture of Juadisim. I belive Eko refers to it as the Old Testiment after seeing a lack of response to the calling of the book of knowlege. This and the 40 day silence similah to mosses makes me think that Eko might be Jewish. However by his appearence when he got out the water in a suit he could also have been a theologan and learnt religions, scriptures and philiosphy at Universisty. Just one of my initial reactions anyways

Hey there just a thought goin back to the story eko was talking about. I do not think that Eko might be Christian at all. When he refered to the old testiment , he fristly calls it the book of law. The tenkah/torah is also called the book of law and is the scripture of Juadisim. I belive Eko refers to it as the Old Testiment after seeing a lack of response to the calling of the book of knowlege. This and the 40 day silence similah to mosses makes me think that Eko might be Jewish. However by his appearence when he got out the water in a suit he could also have been a theologan and learnt religions, scriptures and philiosphy at Universisty. Just one of my initial reactions anyways

I'm not really sure about this, but I think the Bible could be called the book of law, simply because it has rules that one has to abide by.

My belief that Locke is not a Christian has nothing to do with his not having read the Bible and everything to do with his worshiping the island. Island worship is about as far from Christianity as you're gonna get, bar outright Satanism.
I'm a Christian (20 years old) and I'm slowly working my way through the Bible right now. But like I said- I would have expected that Locke would have read the Bible no matter what his beliefs, simply because it's a highly relevant book and Locke seems to be a collector of knowlege. Reading the Bible to gain an ability to randomly quote it as he sees fit seems like a very "Locke" thing to do, don't you think?

Well I don't think he worships the island, but I think he figures he has found his destiny there. I don't know if Locke is a Christian or not, I already stated that. I am simply saying he could be a Christian who does not practice in the traditional way of going to church and reading the Bible, because I do not practice that way, but I am a Christian. But, just because you have gone through a lot in life, seeking something that will fulfill or change your way of living comes along and you believe it is your destiny, that does not mean you are Satanic and it does not make you not a Christian either. I think the Bible is a pretty popular book, but there are probably more people that do not or have never read the Bible than there are who have. Locke doesn't particularly strike me as a person who reads the Bible, or really ever has. He seems more like a man of philosophical thought. He may also be agnostic, which just means he neither disregards or accepts that God exists, because he believes there isn't enough hard evidence to make a conclusion.

[quote=Diaz;637782]Indeed.

One who has Faith lives their life according to what that Faith dictates. The "answer" for them has already been found. Because they have found the "answer" the "search" for or path to relevance becomes less important the need to fulfill the expectations of that Faith. The idea of pre-determination is in opposition in this circumstance because that would mean that whatever path you take will lead you to the "answer." This would be impossible for one who has Faith because they know that there is only one path not many.

For the one who believes in Fate and Destiny the path is irrelevant because you will find the answer no matter which one you take. This is why Eko warns of confusing coincidence and Fate because that is a perscription for distraction and error that causes one to deviate from the path of Faith.[\quote]

...and the rest of your post... What a great post!!!! I think you brought some great points and really clarified the issue/quote.

I don't think that what we see is what we get on the island. There are "forces" on that island that are affecting things/perceptions. And I don't think that they are good "forces". I don't what the forces are... but I don't know. I'll say this - I feel a sense of relief now that Mr. Eko is present. Obviously, it is just a TV show, but his character does seem to represent some inherent good.

I just get a real sense of an underlying metaphysicality, which seemed (to me) to be confirmed with Mr. Eko. There is a lot of symbolism on the show. :)

Mr. Eko seems to understand that they cannot take the island at face-value faith, like Locke has. His faith is requiring him to "lifting it up" (sorry - couldn't resist :) ).

ETA - Mr. Eko is definitely a Christian character. I don't know about the rest of the characters, but there is a definite feeling of redemption. And I think Mr. Eko's peaceful faith has a calming effect on the others (not "Others", just other people).

It's been said that "Coincidence is when God prefers to work anonymously."

Just a random thought to add to the mix. :)

When Locke said "What are the odds?" it was in the context of pointing out how the plane split in half, with survivors of both sections finding part of the film. I think he was saying "What are the odds that this was just a coincidence?" That's what people usually mean when they use that phrase, and Locke's a fanatical believer in fate. So Eko said (in my favorite line of the season) "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." If he thought Locke was saying it was just a coincidence and he believed it was fate, I think he'd have said "Don't mistake fate for coincidence."

To me, it says what it says -"don't let something that seems to have been arranged, but really wasn't, determine the outcome". Look at it for what it is. Don't jump to a conclusion. Locke seems to take everything as a "sign". "There is a reason". Well, maybe there isn't. Maybe it just seems that way, but it's not that way at all.

i think eko has faith, while locke believes more in fate--two different things, but i'm not sure he was referring to this. he may have just wanted locke to understand the difference between the two.

Coincidence:

an event that might have been arranged although it was really accidental
the quality of occupying the same position or area in space; "he waited for the coincidence of the target and the cross hairs"
concurrence: the temporal property of two things happening at the same time; "the interval determining the coincidence gate is adjustable"
the ratio of the observed frequency of double crossings-over to the expected frequency, where the expected frequency is calculated by assuming that the two crossing-over events occur independently of each other.
a coincidence occurs when unexpected parallels can be drawn from two or more events. In the popular sense it is used to describe events (or, more accurately, combinations of two or more events) which are of low probability.Fate:

destiny: an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
destiny: the ultimate agency that predetermines the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of Destiny"
destiny or Fate concerns the fixed natural order of the universe. It is the invincible necessity to which even the gods must accede, as the Sibyl of Delphi confessed. Destiny is fate, personified in Greek culture by the three Moirae (called the Parcae by the Romans), with a Nordic counterpart in the three Norns. The "doom of the powers" in Norse mythology is Ragnarok the battle which even Odin must inevitably face, at the end of the world.
the destined result of life after a sequence of fated events. Kismet, Karma, destiny are other names.
the normal outcome of differentiation of a cell’s progeny.
fate, even in the waking world, has a wide variety of misconceptions and misunderstandings. As a dream symbol, it becomes that much more complex to interpret. If, in your dream you recognize that you are on a path that is motivated by fate or, a dream character actually tells you that fate has a hand in your life direction, you can be certain that you are experiencing a profound and meaningful dream experience.

Let's add the definition of FAITH:
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The body of dogma of a religion
A set of principles or beliefs.I saw things a little differently. I felt as if Eko was saying it was a coincidence and didn't want Locke to get caught up believing in fate. I think this point will be their ultimate point of dispute.

Eko seems like the ultimate man of faith. He believes he has free will and must act upon it, but does not get rattled because he believes everything will work out as it should at the end.

Locke seems like the ultimate man of fate. He doesn't believe he has free will and cannot act without being "led" by "signs" and is easily rattled because he does not know how everything will work out.

That is how I saw it, too.

Eko clearly sees the danger, in his mind, of relying on Fate instead of Faith. Happenstance and coincidence exist for the sake of themselves not at the whim of Fate. He tells Locke to not confuse the two. Locke's profession of Faith is a False Faith. Hence Eko's being sure to tell Locke the story of the re-affirmation of the Covenant. This lesson could come from many places but since Eko seems to be religious he uses the Old Testament.

I wondered if the the island was Locke's "false idol" (false faith) after hearing Eko's story.

All I'm going to say is this - I absolutely love the interaction between Locke and Eko.

ME TOO!

"Do not mistake coincidence for fate"

This must be the best catch-phrase of this season, wont u all agree ?

Locke has Faith in the Island, Eko has Faith...
Faith, regardless of directions give people a shared compass.
Religion in all its form exists as the tool of standards to all humans.

So maybe its basically just a common ground for Locke and Eko. But i hope they are to be friends... too much internal fights up till now. The Losties need to join forces to stay strong against whatever new threats "the others" , and the other "others" and the island has in store for them.


ITA. Especially about Locke and Eko being compadres. I hope they work together and not against each other.

My belief that Locke is not a Christian has nothing to do with his not having read the Bible and everything to do with his worshiping the island. Island worship is about as far from Christianity as you're gonna get, bar outright Satanism.


That's not quite true. I am a Christian, and I know of other religions that worship the sun, moon and earth. Not Satanism at all. Christianity was built upon Paganism (Which is not the same as Satanism. Holidays like Christmas coincided with Pagan rites, and served as incentive for early Christians to celebrate feast days.)

To me, it says what it says -"don't let something that seems to have been arranged, but really wasn't, determine the outcome". Look at it for what it is. Don't jump to a conclusion. Locke seems to take everything as a "sign". "There is a reason". Well, maybe there isn't. Maybe it just seems that way, but it's not that way at all.

This is what I think. I think that Locke sees it as fate. ("What are the odds?" he asks.) While Eko thinks it is merely coincidence. Eko states, "Don't mistake fate for coincidence." I think if he were trying to say it were a coincidence, he would have said, "Don't mistake coincidence for fate."

To me, it says what it says -"don't let something that seems to have been arranged, but really wasn't, determine the outcome". Look at it for what it is. Don't jump to a conclusion. Locke seems to take everything as a "sign". "There is a reason". Well, maybe there isn't. Maybe it just seems that way, but it's not that way at all.

I agree. A good example would be how he -- irrationally, I think -- rationalized Boone's death to Jack as a necessary sacrifice.