I am trying to think about this. That we know of, who has killed someone else or been responsible for someone else's death?

Kate, her father
Sawyer, someone who he thought was the real Sawyer
Ana Lucia, the guy who shot her, Goodwin, an other woman, Shannon
Eko, two others
Jin, did he actually kill anyone that we know of?
Sayid, countless

Also...

Jack - eventually forced to strangle the marshall
Kate - she feels responsible for Tom's death, though she was not the direct cause of it
Sawyer - tried to kill the marshall
Boone - arguably partly responsible for Teresa's death
Locke - arguably responsible for Boone's death
Charlie - killed Ethan

technically Jack is responsible for the death of Shannon's father, and then ultimately responsible for her death as well, as she never would have been on the plane had he chosen to save her father in the emergency room instead of the sexy blonde that later became his ex wife...

Walt may be responsible for his mother dying....

Hurley feels responsible for his uncle (or was it his grandfather) dying immediately after winning the lottery.

i posted this in another thread....

i have acutally thought about this over and over
as of yet, we dont yet know if everyone is RESPONSIBLE for some else's death. However, nearly everyone has been involved with dead/dying people.

sawyer - his parents & the shrimp guy (frank?)
hurlye - his grandpa
jack - sarah, his dad, shannon's dad, the marshal from the plane (he strangled him because sawyer missed when he shot him)
kate -tom
sayid - killed people when he worked in the national gaurd
ana lucia - her unborn child, that dude she killed (the one that shot her), shannon, Goodwin
charlie - killed ethan
boone - teressa? (his nanny broke her neck... so did she die?)
Locke - his father was dying and need a kidney transplant, & he was somewhat involved with boone's death
Walt & Mike - walt's mother died
danielle - killed her reasearch team
Shannon - her father died, boone
jin - i'm not too sure... was he like a hit-man?? (not sure about this one)
and i cant really remember if desmond mentioned any family deaths.

so for now... the only ones we dont know about would be: Claire, Sun, Rose, Bernard, Libby and Eko. (at least i dont remember anything)

any comments...

you can check out the whole thread if you want... http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27427

what if it's not dead or dying people that ties these Losties together--maybe it's severe guilt that led them to seek help...upon seeking help for their significant emotional trauma/guilt they met the qualifications for a breakthrough study (funded by the Hanso Foundation, natch), in despair, they agreed to participate and had plane crash memories inserted (through hynosis or something...work with me here) in their "memories" and the "help" sessions (screening process, whatever) removed...once on the Island, the researchers are letting them go as part of some other experiment...

OK, not completely thought out, but it does:

1. Explain why children and "the good" are taken

2. Explain why fellow "Losties" appear in the background, TV etc. of other peoples' flashabcks (maybe some memory "leaking" going on)

3. Explain how so many survived a mid-air "crash" that was so violent

4. Explain how things from Losties' past (the horse, most recently) appear on the island (and Sawyer channeling Wayne...more memory "leaking" perhaps?)

OK...that's today's shot at a gran unifying theory for Lost.

Poke away!

I also noticed the theme of involvement in a persons death. Jack's a doctor, so it's expected, but the fact he chose to let Shannon's father die is, I feel, more than a coincidence. Sayid, Kate, Hurley, and all else do seem to have an unnaturally close connection to the deaths of people around them. The real question is - How do all of these people relate to the projects of the Hanso Foundation?

Life Extension Project - Easy - who wants to grow old? Do you need pre-adolescent hormones (Walt & other kids), or perhaps umbilical stem cells (Claire's baby) to achieve this?

Electromagnetic Research Initiative - I think we all know what the effects of a strong, focused EM field would have on flight navigation/communication systems. In theory a strong enough field could pull apart a large metal object. The two halves landed pretty close to target, didn't they?

Quest for E.T. - What self respecting New Age billionaire wouldn't throw money at that?

Mathematical Forecasting Initiative - Of course it has something to do with the "magic" numbers, but I stink at math, so pontificate on your own with this one.

Cryogenics Development Imperative - From Cryogenic Society of America website - "We wish to clarify that cryogenics, which deals with extremely low temperatures, has no connection with cryonics, the belief that a person can be frozen at death, stored in a cryogenic vessel, and later brought back to life. We do not endorse this belief, and indeed find it untenable." Polar bears in the tropics, anyone?

Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Initiative - Boy, someone has time on their hands. This seem to be a completely fictional area of study. Sorry to all of you juxtapositional eugenics developers if I'm wrong. Cambridge Online
Dictionary tels us - Juxtaposition - to put things which are not similar next to each
other. & Eugenics - the study of methods of improving humans by allowing only
carefully chosen people to reproduce. I'll leave the rest up to you to decide.

Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility - From Wikipedia "Remote viewing (RV) is a procedure developed by parapsychologists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology) at the Stanford Research Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Research_Institute) to allegedly perform clairvoyance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairvoyance) under controlled conditions. Somewhat similar to astral projection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection), the phenomenon involves a belief in the projection of consciousness to remote locations, and is considered a pseudoscience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience) by mainstream scientists."
From what I know about RV, (lots of Coast to Coast AM, websites & books) some believe they could be able to influence people using this method. Not so much as direct mind control, but more like knowing future events and being in the right place at the right time to influence outcomes. Could Hanso Inc. have known when these folks getting on this flight, or ever arranged it? The "Accelerated" part makes one think.

Hope everyone found this useful. If not, well at least it wasn't painful.

As I remember the flashback, Jin went to extremes not just to avoid killing someone but to prevent his death. I don't believe he should be on the list.

i doubt it is a coincidence that most main characters killed someone in their past, i wouldnt be suprised if we find out that jack "killed" his wife and locke possibly killed his dad...

since the dharma movie revealed that they were working in electromagnetics and (para)psychology i think the whole island is kind of a "fate-magnet"

technically Jack is responsible for the death of Shannon's father, and then ultimately responsible for her death as well, as she never would have been on the plane had he chosen to save her father in the emergency room instead of the sexy blonde that later became his ex wife...

Wait, I can't remember the episode exactly but I could've sworn it was said that her dad had died on the way to the hospital or at the scene. Does anyone remember for sure?

i think its pretty silly if you want to blame jack for shannons dads death. and dont be so ignorant as to say he decided to save the pretty blonde instead.

sara came into the er first. and she had a better chance of surviving. a docter can only work on one person at a time.

I've been thinking about this for a while now. I think that it could be very possible that, once the flashbacks unfold further, all characters could be attributed/responsible for the loss of another life before the crash. Someone ruled out Jin - but we've only touched on his backstory, let alone most of the other survivors. They may not be all "murderers", as per Kate. Other survivors may simply have made a decision that took someones life, such as Jack (so far).

Whether or not it had anything to do with the crash/fate, I believe it could be connected to The Others. What hit home for me was the fact Eko was on their list, but once he took a life (or two) they no longer seemed to want him.

i posted this in another thread....



you can check out the whole thread if you want... http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27427

Thanks. I do find this fact pretty interesting. Now, after this episode, you can add Wayne to Kate's list and don't forget Eko killed a couple Others.

Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Initiative - Boy, someone has time on their hands. This seem to be a completely fictional area of study. Sorry to all of you juxtapositional eugenics developers if I'm wrong. Cambridge Online
Dictionary tels us - Juxtaposition - to put things which are not similar next to each
other. & Eugenics - the study of methods of improving humans by allowing only
carefully chosen people to reproduce. I'll leave the rest up to you to decide.


Apparently putting two carefully chosen people who aren't similar to each other together to reproduce?
Black/White? Good/Evil? Person of Science/Person of Faith?

i think its pretty silly if you want to blame jack for shannons dads death.
Even sillier to say Jack is responsible for Shannon's death (as the original poster did).

Eko killed two Others.

Boone felt responsible for Theresa's death when he was six (because he made her run up and down the stairs doing errands for him).

Shannon attempted to murder Locke and was responsible for Boone being on the plane, which led to Boone's death.

Locke bears a certain amount of responsibility for the death of Boone.

Claire considered abortion and feels responsible for Aaron being born on a dangerous island.

Walt may have unintentially killed his mother with his uncontrolled mental powers; his stepfather certainly was afraid of him.

Michael feels responsible for Walt's kidnapping, and who knows what that was leading to?

No evidence of feeling responsible for a death: Jin (he could have taken that path, and is certainly tainted by his relationship with Mr. Paik; Jin also must feel some responsibility for Walt's kidnapping); Sun (though she's a poisoner, and again is tainted by her relationship with Mr. Paik)

Not enough information: Libby, Rose, Bernard

As I remember the flashback, Jin went to extremes not just to avoid killing someone but to prevent his death. I don't believe he should be on the list.

Then why was Jin washing blood off of his hands in an episode last season? If I recall correctly, Sun confronted him about it, and he wouldn't tell her what happened. It was pretty obvious that the blood was the result of something Jin did for her dad.

[QUOTE=Craven;642142]i doubt it is a coincidence that most main characters killed someone in their past, i wouldnt be suprised if we find out that jack "killed" his wife and locke possibly killed his dad...

I'm with you here, I've been pondering these connections for a while too. I think there's a lot more to this than TPTB have let on so far. I believe we'll also find out that one of the Lostaways, maybe Eko, was responsible for Susan's death too (Michael's ex).

Then why was Jin washing blood off of his hands in an episode last season? If I recall correctly, Sun confronted him about it, and he wouldn't tell her what happened. It was pretty obvious that the blood was the result of something Jin did for her dad.


They showed what he did in season 1, he first went and gave that guy a warning, but it wasnt the kind of "warning" his father-in-law was talking about. So his father-in-law sent him back with another guy. Jin was supposed to watch this guy kill the guy, but Jin ran in the house and beat the guy badly rather than letting the other guy shoot him. As he was beating the guy he said " I just saved your life".
The guy put his gun away after Jin told him that "he got the message"

Then why was Jin washing blood off of his hands in an episode last season? If I recall correctly, Sun confronted him about it, and he wouldn't tell her what happened. It was pretty obvious that the blood was the result of something Jin did for her dad.He was supposed to kill the guy but got out of it and saved him by administering a beating instead in the hopes of appeasing Sun's dad.

No evidence of feeling responsible for a death: Jin (he could have taken that path, and is certainly tainted by his relationship with Mr. Paik; Jin also must feel some responsibility for Walt's kidnapping); Sun (though she's a poisoner, and again is tainted by her relationship with Mr. Paik)The child or in this case the daughter & son-in-law are responsible for the sins of the father? So Jack was also responsible for anyone his drunken father injured in the hospital.

Edited because there is only 1 n in and - not 2 as I typed it the first time.

I think when we are talking about people who killed or people who may have caused a death we need to keep it in the realm of "before", Before the Island.

This would keep Eko off the list because we wouldn't count the killings of the 2 others or evan Goodwin for that matter.

He was supposed to kill the guy but got out of it annd saved him by administering a beating instead in the hopes of appeasing Sun's dad.

The child or in this case the daughter & son-in-law are responsible for the sins of the father? So Jack was also responsible for anyone his drunken father injured in the hospital.

It's not the genetic relationship that makes you guilty, it's the financial relationship. Jin earned his bread working for a man who saw no compunction about murder; Sun shared in that.

And yes, Jack bore some responsibility for any of his dad's unprofessional behavior that he saw but didn't report.

Hurley feels responsible for a *lot* of deaths.

He feels responsible for everyone who died in the crash, and everyone who's died since (Pilot, Marshal, Turbine Man, Joanna, Scott, Boone, Shannon, various tailies).

He feels responsible for the death of his grandfather.

He feels responsible for the guy who jumped out of the window of his accountant's office building.

Wasn't there also a fire with some deaths, something Hurley owned, a shoe factory in Canada or something?

It's not the genetic relationship that makes you guilty, it's the financial relationship. Jin earned his bread working for a man who saw no compunction about murder; Sun shared in that.

And yes, Jack bore some responsibility for any of his dad's unprofessional behavior that he saw but didn't report.If you (as an almost powerless working stiff) found out your employer was powerful enough and had connections enough to believe he was safe in ordering the death of a high government official, who would you trust enough to report him to? Would you perhaps grab your wife and attempt to leave for a place where he could not find you after you basically thwarted his move to kill that official or would you report him to the police who were very possibly in his pay?

Jack shares responsibility because he had the power to do something about it. Did Jin have that power? Did Sun know the full extent of her father's activities - Jin never told her about it.

Even sillier to say Jack is responsible for Shannon's death (as the original poster did).

I'm the orignal poster and I never said that.

Then why was Jin washing blood off of his hands in an episode last season? If I recall correctly, Sun confronted him about it, and he wouldn't tell her what happened. It was pretty obvious that the blood was the result of something Jin did for her dad.

Because he had just beaten the Secretary for Environmental Safety to a bloody pulp to keep the guy in the white suit from killing him. He beat the the secretary, Byung Han, then quietly told Han that he had just saved his life.

Because he had just beaten the Secretary for Environmental Safety to a bloody pulp to keep the guy in the white suit from killing him. He beat the the secretary, Byung Han, then quietly told Han that he had just saved his life.

Is this where the dog came from?

They showed what he did in season 1, he first went and gave that guy a warning, but it wasnt the kind of "warning" his father-in-law was talking about. So his father-in-law sent him back with another guy. Jin was supposed to watch this guy kill the guy, but Jin ran in the house and beat the guy badly rather than letting the other guy shoot him. As he was beating the guy he said " I just saved your life".
The guy put his gun away after Jin told him that "he got the message"

D-oh! Sorry, my bad. Boy, the lights must have been dim that night, indeed! That being said, since that epi., somehow I've felt that Jin's been involved in some truly serious stuff. There's definitely a lot more that we haven't seen yet. So maybe the connection fits. Then again, maybe not. Never can be too sure w/ this show. But the fact that so many of them have been so involved in death isn't just a coincidence. There's gotta be some serious Hanso-related mojo at work here. That's all I'm sayin'.

Is this where the dog came from?
Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault
Even sillier to say Jack is responsible for Shannon's death (as the original poster did).



I'm the orignal poster and I never said that.

Original poster, as in the person who originally posted that Jack was responsible for Shannon's father's death (and ultimately hers too). Not the original thread starter.

In other words, I was talking mbsieve, not yourself. :)