So I believe that was Mrs. Klue (or whatever the black chick's name is). Recognize anyone else?

Whoever the nerdy guy is (who didn't like the book) seems to have hit a nerve with Juliet... Did I imagine that, or was there tension there just like with Benry? Not so sure she likes her neighbors.

Anything else stand out about the club, besides the name of the book, and standing in the doorways during the tremor?

What was with the song?

What was with the song?

I think the songs along with the expressions that Juliet was making during the lyrics may represent that she once knew what it was like to go "Downtown"... and misses it.

Yes, the Downtown lyrics talk about city streets, neon lights, she misses the city life. I thought it was interesting that Ben said "so i guess im out of the book club". Either one he saw stephen king and him not liking science fiction made the remark. OR, he saw the book and knew they were having a meeting, and he didn't wasnt told about it. There is obviously tension there. Also right before the earthquake she used the words "free will", I feel she may not have that on this island. Thus why she wants to go Downtown.

I love the way in which the song ties together both Desmond and the Others when they experience the Losties coming for the first time.

I liked the use of the song, too. I thought that there was something between Ben and Juliet and that now that they'd "broken up" he was no longer invited to the book club. Did anyone else see it that way?

I liked the use of the song, too. I thought that there was something between Ben and Juliet and that now that they'd "broken up" he was no longer invited to the book club. Did anyone else see it that way?

I definitely sense some tension between Ben and Juliet, however, I do not know if it is relationship and breaking up tension. I believe it might just be some other form of tension, in the sense that they just disagree on different things.

Or, maybe, they just do not like each other. I guess we will have to wait and see if this point is developed further.

In the book club the asian looking guy was the same one that walked Jack out of the cell.

I thought it was breaking up tesnsion becuse it was obvious that Ben had been a member of the book club and then it seemd like Juliet decided to hold the club without even telling him. I need to go back and watch it over though because my son and I were just getting settled in and we missed the first 30 seconds or so.

Juliet definitely wants off the island and the Others. She obviously not happy and feeling "homesick" - that's what i felt from watching the first few minutes.

Definite tension. She might want to get even with Fenry Benry.

I'm assuming the creators decided to throw a Stephen King novel in the mix considering he has admitted to being a huge fan of LOST.

Exactly. That's why we never saw exactly which book it was. TPTB didn't want another "book that symbolizes something." They just wanted to tip their hats to King.

Emm, I havn't seen it yet but wasn't Mr King metioned previously... either the book Locke Gave Ben/Fenry ?
or it was talked about in the hatch... any possible tie in....... hummmm back to school work now :(

I love the way in which the song ties together both Desmond and the Others when they experience the Losties coming for the first time.
And what about the close-up shot of Juliet's eye starting this season, the same as a close-up shot of Jack's eye started season 1?

Hi there - my first post! (Starting with an easy one.)

Locke gave "Fenry" (now Ben) a Dostoyevsky book (The Brothers . . . , wasn't it?) and Ben asked, "Don't you have any Steven King?"

Maybe that's why he said they were coming for Locke? His tastes in books? (Maybe I shouldn't make jokes on my first post . . . )

Hi there - my first post! (Starting with an easy one.)

Locke gave "Fenry" (now Ben) a Dostoyevsky book (The Brothers . . . , wasn't it?) and Ben asked, "Don't you have any Steven King?"

Maybe that's why he said they were coming for Locke? His tastes in books? (Maybe I shouldn't make jokes on my first post . . . )

Nice catch. But I think the "joke" is that Ben would prefer reading Stephen King more than Dostoyevsky. And he hates Stephen King.

I watched it again because you could not possibly pick up on the underlying meanings behind the book club conversations until you knew the ben = fenry.

That being said, we see juliette agitated alone while baking muffins and then during the book discussion. I think the complainer guys criticizes the book selection by saying something along the lines of "I know it is the host's job to pick the book, but Ben isnt even here."

It made me think that if Ben was to be the host and they had the meeting at Juliette's house, then Ben and Juliette lived together.

Thoughts?

I thought that Juliet was just rebelling against "him." I seem to remember when the book club member was complaining about the selection he said "he wouldn't like it." But Juliet was the only one to actually call "him" Ben and sarcastically say that she was "so sorry he chose a book that Ben wouldn't like." To me, it seemed that she was just rebelling against Ben's control over everything.

I thought that Juliet was just rebelling against "him." I seem to remember when the book club member was complaining about the selection he said "he wouldn't like it." But Juliet was the only one to actually call "him" Ben and sarcastically say that she was "so sorry he chose a book that Ben wouldn't like." To me, it seemed that she was just rebelling against Ben's control over everything.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the other guy say "Ben" too? I'm still unconvinced that Ben is "him."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the other guy say "Ben" too? I'm still unconvinced that Ben is "him."

I'd have to watch it again. It was in retrospect this morning that I realized they had talked about Ben before Fenry was actually identified as "Ben."

In my opinion, the book club scene was one of the most important scenes from the epi. We learn right from the jump that Juliett is strugling to be happy on the island.

Then, Right before the crash when the house begins shaking, Juliett is scolding a member of the book club who disagreed with the book choice and implied Ben would not stoop as low as too come. Juliett is in the middle of saying "Here I am thinking that free will still acutally exists on this...." and then the house shakes.

The "others" are supposed to be good people. When Jack floods the hatch, Ben locks Juliet in with Jack to drown or survive. (I'm sure he new they'd survive. I don't think they are under water. Juliett was on land to catch Sawyer way too fast.)

At the end of the episode, Ben commends Juliett for her work. She replied quite rudely thanks.

Anyway, I think we are being setup for later epi's when we see Juliett revolt, fall in love with Jack, or help the losties escape.

It seems I'm the only one (Not sure...didn't read the full thread, just skimmed), but the "I guess I'm out of the book club" comment, to me, meant he was out because he was gonna need to be more of a leader than the kind of guy who goes to book club every week. It was just a clever little line.

We know that Benry digs Stephen King, because he asked if Locke had any King when he gave him the Dostoyevsky in the hatch.

[quote][
Originally Posted by hoosierstamper http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1191878#post1191878)
I thought that Juliet was just rebelling against "him." I seem to remember when the book club member was complaining about the selection he said "he wouldn't like it." But Juliet was the only one to actually call "him" Ben /QUOTE]

I just rewatched the beginning again from ABC's website. Adam, the book club member who objected to the book, also mentioned Ben by name.

The important things to glean from the scene were:

The quote: Juliett is in the middle of saying "Here I am thinking that free will still acutally exists on this...." and then the house shakes. Obviously something has changed and free will isn't what it used to be.

Ben = Henry

Juliett's obvious displeasure with Ben and his ideas.

It seems I'm the only one (Not sure...didn't read the full thread, just skimmed), but the "I guess I'm out of the book club" comment, to me, meant he was out because he was gonna need to be more of a leader than the kind of guy who goes to book club every week. It was just a clever little line.

We know that Benry digs Stephen King, because he asked if Locke had any King when he gave him the Dostoyevsky in the hatch.
An interesting interpretation, but I don't think that's what it was meant to convey. In that sequence, we are given a shot of Juliet holding the novel in her arms, followed by Ben turning his head slightly, looking downward toward where Juliet is holding the book, clearly showing that Ben is trying to see what book she is holding. When he sees that it is a Steven King book, he concludes that he must be out of the book club. I just took it to mean that Ben feels that if the book club is reading Steven King, he doesn't want to be a part of it, or isn't a part of it.

The entire discussion in the house was talking about how Ben doesn't like Steven King. So I think Ben asking Locke about Steven King was more of a subtle jab at Locke (the jab being 'You people are so crude, I expected you to be reading Steven King', or something to that effect) .

I think that the whole "out of the book club" comment was that he was not told when and where it was. After everyone was making remarks about the book selected, Juliet made a comment that she was host and therfore she got to select the book. This made me believe that Ben/Fenry and Juliett are a couple. This makes his sarcasim ever more stinging by no longer beng included in her group.

There are two questions answered based on the book club/village scene. The plane really did crash and the "Others" did not knowanything about it before it happened.

It seems I'm the only one (Not sure...didn't read the full thread, just skimmed), but the "I guess I'm out of the book club" comment, to me, meant he was out because he was gonna need to be more of a leader than the kind of guy who goes to book club every week. It was just a clever little line.

That was the exact thought that i had. It seemed like he just wasnt at this meeting. If they had put him in the book club opener, it would have wrecked the setup to this scene happening on the island.

Yes, the Downtown lyrics talk about city streets, neon lights, she misses the city life. I thought it was interesting that Ben said "so i guess im out of the book club". Either one he saw stephen king and him not liking science fiction made the remark. OR, he saw the book and knew they were having a meeting, and he didn't wasnt told about it. There is obviously tension there. Also right before the earthquake she used the words "free will", I feel she may not have that on this island. Thus why she wants to go Downtown.

I believe the banter about the book would reveal that Juliet doesn't care that Ben doesn't like S. King while the others would be too frightened to choose a book that Ben wouldn't like. This was reinforced when Ben looked at the book and commented "I guess I'm out of the book club." This was an awesome joke since last season in our Hatch he said "what, so stephen king."

In the book club the asian looking guy was the same one that walked Jack out of the cell.


GREAT JOB!!! I agree!!! They had the same build!! DHARMA COP!

I also agree that the opening scene was probably one of the most important. When I first saw Juliet upset by the song and the burnt muffins and then the references to Ben and how he wouldn't have liked the book, I took it to mean that she and Ben had been involved and something had happened. Before they revealed that Ben was our good old friend fake Henry, I thought maybe Ben had been her husband (which still could be true) who had been killed or something. Now obviously he wasn't killed, but there was a lot of tension between the two of them. I took the "I guess I'm out of the book club" comment to mean that he hadn't been told about it, and possibly excluded because of the deterioration of his relationship with Juliet. Here's to hoping they'll focus more on these Others now!

Everyone is missing the free will comment. and I quote from around 2:40 into the epi "Here I am thinking that free will still acutally exists on this...." and then the house shakes

Remember, Ben was missing for a few weeks while he was in captivity at the EM Hatch. So, perhaps, Joliet took charge in his absence...

Remember, Ben was missing for a few weeks while he was in captivity at the EM Hatch. So, perhaps, Joliet took charge in his absence...

This scene took place before the plane crash. Ben was in captivity after.

My observations...

If her plumbing wasn't working (Ethan was under the house fixing it, and the older lady commented on it when she arrived) why would you still have the book club meeting at your house? The water was probably shut off. How awkward if any of the guests needed to use the bathroom. What was Juliet going to say "Sure, the bathroom is down the hall, but please don't flush!" Eww.

So why was it important to know that her plumbing wasn't working? Unless it's an inuendo...Ethan is checking out Juliet's plumbing...baw chic a baw wow! ;)

When the timer went off on the muffins, they were already burning. Normally you set the timer according to the recipe so they don't burn...thus the purpose of the timer going off. Sooo, was she too distracted and set the timer incorrectly? (That's why she was sad/upset when she put the song on and looked in the mirror?)

If Benry was no longer part of the book club, why would they still hold meetings RIGHT across the street from his house, at Juliet's house?? Wouldn't he notice all the guests arriving at Juliet's and wonder, "Hmmm wonder why all the old book club members are meeting at Juliets?"

I tend to sway to the power struggle theory rather than the Benry/Juliette break-up theory.

Also the plumbing, notes her need of the community

Benry immediately started giving orders, before the plane hit the ground.

My observations...

When the timer went off on the muffins, they were already burning. Normally you set the timer according to the recipe so they don't burn...thus the purpose of the timer going off. Sooo, was she too distracted and set the timer incorrectly? (That's why she was sad/upset when she put the song on and looked in the mirror?)

I was under the impression that it was a smoke-detector going off, not the timer.

Cheers!

Vilya

LOL yeah the comment "i guess I'm outta the book club" is meant as "Well a plane crashed, we need to recruit the survivors and there is some other strange things going on on the island which require my attention, so I don't have time for the bookclub so I guess I'm ou!"

Cause if it meant "You didn't invite me for the meeting at you're house and that's not fair, I'm outta the bookclub" it wouldn't make sense. Like Ben, aka the leader, wouldn't notice a bookclubmeeting in his small civilization at the house nextdoor.

LOL yeah the comment "i guess I'm outta the book club" is meant as "Well a plane crashed, we need to recruit the survivors and there is some other strange things going on on the island which require my attention, so I don't have time for the bookclub so I guess I'm ou!"

Cause if it meant "You didn't invite me for the meeting at you're house and that's not fair, I'm outta the bookclub" it wouldn't make sense. Like Ben, aka the leader, wouldn't notice a bookclubmeeting in his small civilization at the house nextdoor.


I have to restate: Ben said that because he wouldn't be part of a club that reads King. He definately looked at the book, made a face, looked up at her and made the statement. There really no other way to interpret the statement other than to link it to the book and her. If it had to do with the plane he would have made a gesture to that direction.

Quoting the scene:

Adam - It's not even literature, it's popcorn!
Older lady - And why isn't it literature Adam? I'm dying to know...
Adam - There's no metaphor. It's by the numbers religious hocus pocus...
Older lady - No metaphor?
Adam - ...it's science fiction. Now I know why Ben isn't here!
Juliet - Excuse me?
Adam - I know the host picks the book, but seriously, Julie, he wouldn't read this in the damn bathroom!
Juliet - Well... Adam, I *am* the host, and I do pick the book, and this is my favorite book, so I am absolutely *thrilled* that you can't stand it!
Older lady smiles
Juliet - Silly me for sinking so low as to select something that Ben wouldn't like. Here I am, thinking that free will still actually exists on...
*earthquake*

I think what you can tell from that scene (especially after rewatching it a billion times) is that Adam is one of Ben's followers - he does everything and ONLY what Ben says and approves, whereas Juliet and the older lady are a little fed up with Benry bossing them all around and sees no reason why they should "worship" Ben.

Also, with Adam's "I guess that's why he's not here" comment and the way Benry looks at the book and then up at Juliet and says "So I guess I'm out of the book club" it seems to me that she called that meeting without consulting or inviting him, which reinforces the thesis that she's just rebelling against his bossing everyone around.

So I believe that was Mrs. Klue (or whatever the black chick's name is). Recognize anyone else?

Whoever the nerdy guy is (who didn't like the book) seems to have hit a nerve with Juliet... Did I imagine that, or was there tension there just like with Benry? Not so sure she likes her neighbors.

Anything else stand out about the club, besides the name of the book, and standing in the doorways during the tremor?




I dont think the black lady at the book club is MS.Klue .....but in LTDA when j/k/s get hit with the stunners a black lady puts a bag on their heads....i beleive That is the lady...

Was this the book they were reading Wizard and Glass?:
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0451210875.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Also isn't it ironic we are are all part of the modern verion of a book club (forum) and we are discussing the modern version of a book (TV show) just a thought.

I get that the Stephen King reference may have just been a nod to the author, but does anyone have any idea which novel they were reading? Curiosity has gotten the better of me and now, if at all possible, I just have to know.

Does anyone have a clear screen capture??

There was one point where you could see Juliet holding the book, just before the earthquake, and it looks like a girl on the cover and maybe the letters CAR in red creepie letters at the bottom. We couldn't find a cover that looks like that on ebay, google, Amazon, etc. My husband and I were thinking Carrie? The "religious hocus pocus" comment makes us lean that way, also. Since Carrie was King's big break, it would be a great choice for a nod to King.

Any thoughts???

An interesting interpretation, but I don't think that's what it was meant to convey. In that sequence, we are given a shot of Juliet holding the novel in her arms, followed by Ben turning his head slightly, looking downward toward where Juliet is holding the book, clearly showing that Ben is trying to see what book she is holding. When he sees that it is a Steven King book, he concludes that he must be out of the book club. I just took it to mean that Ben feels that if the book club is reading Steven King, he doesn't want to be a part of it, or isn't a part of it.

The entire discussion in the house was talking about how Ben doesn't like Steven King. So I think Ben asking Locke about Steven King was more of a subtle jab at Locke (the jab being 'You people are so crude, I expected you to be reading Steven King', or something to that effect) .

I believe the banter about the book would reveal that Juliet doesn't care that Ben doesn't like S. King while the others would be too frightened to choose a book that Ben wouldn't like. This was reinforced when Ben looked at the book and commented "I guess I'm out of the book club." This was an awesome joke since last season in our Hatch he said "what, so stephen king."

Right, I think Herk and Vertical have the clearly intended interpretations.

Everyone is missing the free will comment. and I quote from around 2:40 into the epi "Here I am thinking that free will still acutally exists on this...." and then the house shakes

The line is important also because she does not resolve if they are on an island or not. :biggrin:

Remember, Ben was missing for a few weeks while he was in captivity at the EM Hatch. So, perhaps, Joliet took charge in his absence...

Yes, I think this is a good point. Now that Benry is back, and he's in charge again, what is the power situation like? Are they sharing the role of being in charge? Not quite clear....

I was under the impression that it was a smoke-detector going off, not the timer.

Cheers!

Vilya

Right, I think it was the smoke detector. She may have forgotten to set the timer, hence why they were so burnt.

What was with the song?

Just like Mama Cass' "Make Your Own Kind of Music" described Desmond living by himself in the hatch, I think "Downtown" describes the suburbian living community of the Others.

I get that the Stephen King reference may have just been a nod to the author, but does anyone have any idea which novel they were reading? Curiosity has gotten the better of me and now, if at all possible, I just have to know.

Does anyone have a clear screen capture??

There was one point where you could see Juliet holding the book, just before the earthquake, and it looks like a girl on the cover and maybe the letters CAR in red creepie letters at the bottom. We couldn't find a cover that looks like that on ebay, google, Amazon, etc. My husband and I were thinking Carrie? The "religious hocus pocus" comment makes us lean that way, also. Since Carrie was King's big break, it would be a great choice for a nod to King.

Any thoughts???

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=77
Here ya go!

unfortunately i dont have the ability to get screencaps from my tivo, but if you frame-by-frame the scene having jule's tell adam that it's her favorite book, you can clearly see it's Carrie. there are a few threads out right now

So... was Ethan a plumber or Juliet's husband? It could be Juliet doesn't like Ben for his mind games and how he controls people. Also, lets say for a minute that Ethan is Juliet's husband. Ben did send him to the Fuselage's camp and he he did end up ketting killed. That could create more friction. The husband thing is a stab in the dark, but going on the theory that everything said and done in this show means SOMETHING I think merely mentioning that Ethan is fixing the plumbing might be something.

My interpetation of the book club is that she didn't tell Ben about it because #1 He doesn't like King and #2 How he likes to control everything including, albeit indirectly, the books chosen in the club. So it was a rebelious act of sorts.

The line is important also because she does not resolve if they are on an island or not. :biggrin:

Good point!! (referring to Juliet talking about "free will still acutally exists on this...")

Quoting the scene:

Adam - It's not even literature, it's popcorn!
Older lady - And why isn't it literature Adam? I'm dying to know...
Adam - There's no metaphor. It's by the numbers religious hocus pocus...
Older lady - No metaphor?
Adam - ...it's science fiction. Now I know why Ben isn't here!
Juliet - Excuse me?
Adam - I know the host picks the book, but seriously, Julie, he wouldn't read this in the damn bathroom!
Juliet - Well... Adam, I *am* the host, and I do pick the book, and this is my favorite book, so I am absolutely *thrilled* that you can't stand it!
Older lady smiles
Juliet - Silly me for sinking so low as to select something that Ben wouldn't like. Here I am, thinking that free will still actually exists on...
*earthquake*

I think what you can tell from that scene (especially after rewatching it a billion times) is that Adam is one of Ben's followers - he does everything and ONLY what Ben says and approves, whereas Juliet and the older lady are a little fed up with Benry bossing them all around and sees no reason why they should "worship" Ben.

Also, with Adam's "I guess that's why he's not here" comment and the way Benry looks at the book and then up at Juliet and says "So I guess I'm out of the book club" it seems to me that she called that meeting without consulting or inviting him, which reinforces the thesis that she's just rebelling against his bossing everyone around.

I totally agree with this.

Just to clarify something though, I think all the arguing over whether it was the fact that they had the meeting without him or that he saw it was a Stepehen King Book is kind of pointless, because it could just be that everyone is right.

Ben sees her holding a book, which clues him in that she called a book club meeting without him and then he sees that it's Stephen King, which just reinforces his assumption that she didn't want him at the meeting because she picked a book he obviously wouldn't like.

I don't think it has to be one or the other...

My observations...

If her plumbing wasn't working (Ethan was under the house fixing it, and the older lady commented on it when she arrived) why would you still have the book club meeting at your house? The water was probably shut off. How awkward if any of the guests needed to use the bathroom. What was Juliet going to say "Sure, the bathroom is down the hall, but please don't flush!" Eww.

So why was it important to know that her plumbing wasn't working? Unless it's an inuendo...Ethan is checking out Juliet's plumbing...baw chic a baw wow! ;)


I haven't re-viewed the ep so I may be a bit off on this, but the Ethan/plumbing scene screamed "Wizard of Oz" reference to me. Ethan's legs were out from under the house, and the house looked like it was on top of him -- much like the house landing on the Wicked Witch in Wizard of Oz. My 2¢.


Witchy

it's clearly carrie, http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/68/dd/2212b340dca0263dd4919010.L.jpg

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=25

What's interesting too about the book being "Carrie" is that it isn't a recent book. One would think that a book club of people who COULD get supplied from the outside easily would be reading something more "today."

For whatever it's worth...I think the oriental guy in the book club is the cop who gives Jack his personal effects back when he is being released from jail.

You see him up close for a couple of frames as they rush to go under the doorway when the room starts shaking.

I liked the use of the song, too. I thought that there was something between Ben and Juliet and that now that they'd "broken up" he was no longer invited to the book club. Did anyone else see it that way?

Yep. Remember the whole exchange during the book club about how Ben never would have picked out this book or even read it in the bathroom etc. and Juliet was visibly upset saying how SHE was the host and SHE liked the book etc. And then when Ben said, "I guess I'm out of the book club" - I just took it all to mean that they were a couple and now are not. That if Ben was still "with" Juliet he never would have agreed to the book choice for the club. And Ben's comment just meant that he realized they were having their meeting and since he hadn't been invited and due to the breakup he was out. And there was obvious tension between them - like a separated couple who still have to be civil and put up with each other because they are in close proximity. Plus, Juliet's demeanor during the whole opening scene - she seemed rattled and nervous and like she was just trying to hold herself together. So I took it that it was a fresh/recent thing and she was still dealing with it and upset about it.

nice thread...I was thinking that perhaps some of the Others are survivors of older plane crashes and they have been through what these losties are about to go through...Ben may be the leader and Juliette may be an old survivor who has no choice but to stay there once Ben and his other group brain wash them....

late...getting tired.....not sure if I am making sense...lol

Yay, my first post.

Did anyone else notice the "by the numbers" comment during the book club meeting? Do you think that the writers would really let the word "numbers" happen in an offhand comment like that if there wasn't a point? I haven't read Carrie, are there any parallel themes with the show?

I don't know that I can buy the former Ben/Juliet theory, not everything on that island has to be ruled by who's sleeping with who. As to the question of whether the Others have access to the outside world, did you notice that the two editions of the book we get good looks at (Juliet's and the woman next to Adam's) are both a little old and beat up? Neither Juliet nor that other woman are old enough to have bought it when it was first released. Anybody know a website where we can see what different printings of books look like, so we can date the editions?

Yay, my first post.

Did anyone else notice the "by the numbers" comment during the book club meeting?
Do you think that the writers would really let the word "numbers" happen in an offhand comment like that if there wasn't a point?

totally. i was taking my time reading through this thread wondering, wow... will i really get to post something that hasn't been discusssed already? then, i get to very end and, well - ya beat me to it! hahah - excellent first post, quin!

i figured it was a "meta" moment and the the writers were commenting on the criticism that lost sometimes gets.

I don't know that I can buy the former Ben/Juliet theory, not everything on that island has to be ruled by who's sleeping with who.

thank you. why does it have to be gray's anatomy? that's a good show but a totally different thing.

though -- TPTB did state that relationships would be emphasized this season. but i just don't get a "juliet/ben as a couple" vibe... she seems upset having to play the "traditional female" role, and the song did make me think she was wishing she could get away from the quaint little village life and be an emancipated woman in a big, modern city.

one thing i noticed and haven't seen metioned is how much the two men in the book club resemble each other - the nerdy guy challanging juliet and the fellow next to him - too much of an age difference to be twins, but maybe brothers? or could they be father/son? which made me wonder if the older woman might be juliet's mom, and it's one big dysfunctional family. which would lend credence to the "juliet/ben as siblings" theory.

but that's just a wild guess.:biggrin:

Exactly. That's why we never saw exactly which book it was. TPTB didn't want another "book that symbolizes something." They just wanted to tip their hats to King.

If you pause it in the right place - shot of Juliet as she's saying "I do pick the book" - you can see it's Carrie.

just a thought...

that song... same song desmond woke up to in the hatch...

maybe.. this is a leap.. she is thinking of desmond.. maybe... she studies desmond in the hatch...

maybe she has a problem falling for her subjects...

like she may fall for jack...

a stretch..but.. there has to be something to her reaction to the song....

the 2 asian guys are not the same. the one in the precint looks diff than the guy in the book club. plus the guy in the book club is a dead ringer for william hung while the cop isnt.

Dignan, it's not the same song. Desmond's was "Make Your Own Kind Of Music." Juliet's was "Downtown."

And yes, Fatso, I know now that it was "Carrie." Pity. We have enough books-that-symbolize-something on this show. Oh, well.

I haven't re-viewed the ep so I may be a bit off on this, but the Ethan/plumbing scene screamed "Wizard of Oz" reference to me. Ethan's legs were out from under the house, and the house looked like it was on top of him -- much like the house landing on the Wicked Witch in Wizard of Oz. My 2¢.


Witchy


Yeah, the same thing popped in my head too.

Great thread - sorry if my comments are a bit offtopic but this thread already seems to have branched out into more of a discusion of the scene as a whole.

i loved this part of the episode, seemed to be so much to think about & i was really impressed with the way it was produced by TPTB, really dramatic/surprising.

The whole begining scene baking muffins/bookclub thing had a real small-town Americana kinf of nostalgic vibe going on. Combined with the music it really blew me away when it turned out to be the others on the island. Props to TPTB great start to S3.

One thing regardinng this scene it was either an island (almost as a 'character') flasback or a Juliette flasback? We also had the normal show format jack flasback. Do you think we may be getting more episodes with two different sets of flashbacks or was this one off?

Everyone is missing the free will comment. and I quote from around 2:40 into the epi "Here I am thinking that free will still acutally exists on this...." and then the house shakes

I totally agree the mention of freewill jumped out at me. I have been thinking for a while that some how freewill has to be important in the show. It seems to me that Benry was trying to get someone else to choose to stop pushing the hatch button - as he had the opportunity to not push it himself in lock down. Some how some of his plan seemed to need Locke to stop pushing it?


The line is important also because she does not resolve if they are on an island or not.

I think TPTB did this deliberately so that seeing the losties plane was totally unexpected. I thought it was an awesome moment. I loved the way they did this scene. Seeing the plane, finding out Ben = Fenry, seeing Ethan and Goodwin together (not from two seperate groups) - simply wow!

Yay, my first post.

Did anyone else notice the "by the numbers" comment during the book club meeting? Do you think that the writers would really let the word "numbers" happen in an offhand comment like that if there wasn't a point? I haven't read Carrie, are there any parallel themes with the show?



totally co-sign that! I was just searching to see if this or the free will thing was mentioned. The comment "There's no metaphor. It's by the numbers religious hocus pocus..." seemed to have huge significance i just can't quite figure out what.

Regarding Carrie two of the main themes are i think tele-kinetic/psychic powers (Carrie has these) and outsider/group interaction (in that Carrie is an outsider that the 'cool kids' pick on). The book ends pretty badly for the group with an explosive release of her power from Carrie


Also isn't it ironic we are are all part of the modern verion of a book club (forum) and we are discussing the modern version of a book (TV show) just a thought.

Good point didn;'t think of that. So the others aren't connected to the 'coconut-internet' ;)

Witchy Chick thanks for pointing out the Wizard of Oz reference (Ethan's legs protruding from under the house), it would never have occured to me.

Oh and one other thing (and i am joking, i just mean this light heartedly) - did anyone notice that just as the plane explodes if you look very closely in the top left of the screen just by a cloud you can clearly see about 1 million internet theories beeing shot down ;)

What's interesting too about the book being "Carrie" is that it isn't a recent book. One would think that a book club of people who COULD get supplied from the outside easily would be reading something more "today."

and "Downtown" isn't a recent song. It is as though someone wants to keep time suspended.

I keep thinking about the hatches and wondering if there is a parallel.
There was an experiment in the Swan Hatch that was to be observed by people in the Pearl Hatch who, in theory, were to be observed by people collecting the pneumatic tubes.
The Fusies are being observed by the Others. Are the Others, in turn, being observed by someone else - someone who wants to keep their Utopian society from being exposed to modern or outside influences?

If so, it becomes important for them to "break" the Fusies before the Fusies can influence them.

Did anyone thing the smoke alarm sounded like the ahtch alarm? I'll have to go and watch it again now, to make sure I didn't dream that!!!!

Did anyone thing the smoke alarm sounded like the ahtch alarm? I'll have to go and watch it again now, to make sure I didn't dream that!!!!

Think you're dreaming it...sounded like a kitchen timer to me. But I did notice that in the Jack-being-let-out-of-jail scene someone in the background yells out just as the scene starts: "It's time for Lockdown!"...

Anyone else notice the odd use of the use of the term "hokum pokum" in the book club scene? "Hokum" means "nonsense" and "hocus-pocus" is a term made up by magicians, but the combination is not a real term. But I liked it: in one sentence, Adam trashed all writing (including tv shows!) that feature religion, magic, and science fiction.

I thought it was interesting that Ben said "so i guess im out of the book club". Either one he saw stephen king and him not liking science fiction made the remark. OR, he saw the book and knew they were having a meeting, and he didn't wasnt told about it.


It seems I'm the only one (Not sure...didn't read the full thread, just skimmed), but the "I guess I'm out of the book club" comment, to me, meant he was out because he was gonna need to be more of a leader than the kind of guy who goes to book club every week. It was just a clever little line.

If Benry was no longer part of the book club, why would they still hold meetings RIGHT across the street from his house, at Juliet's house?? Wouldn't he notice all the guests arriving at Juliet's and wonder, "Hmmm wonder why all the old book club members are meeting at Juliets?"

I have to restate: Ben said that because he wouldn't be part of a club that reads King. He definately looked at the book, made a face, looked up at her and made the statement. There really no other way to interpret the statement other than to link it to the book and her. If it had to do with the plane he would have made a gesture to that direction.

I think you all make good and valid points, and there is probably truth to all of your theories. Here's what I think about the Others' Book Club:

The Others take turns hosting book club meetings based on a rotational system. Benry and most of the book club members tend to pick the types of books that Benry would approve of (for example, maybe Miss Klugh is a huge Ayn Rand fan?).

However, the week that the plane crashed, it was Juliet's turn to host a book club meeting. Juliet hasn't had seniority in the book club compared to all the other members, and only recently was allowed to host meetings. She chose Carrie as an act of rebellion (because she knew Benry would hate her book selection), and when she announced her book selection at the previous meeting, Benry made up some transparent excuse ("Oh, I won't be at your book club meeting next week, Juliet, because I must water my plants that afternoon...") because he didn't want to read Carrie and he didn't want to attend a meeting hosted by Juliet where all they did was talk about a book that was so odious to him.

So, up until the point when the plane crashed, Benry had originally intended on just missing that one meeting (where Carrie was the topic of discussion).

But once Flight 815 crashed on the island, Benry immediately knew that his heightened responsibilities would allow him no more time for attending weekly book club meetings. Therefore, his comment had a double meaning: "I guess I'm out of the book club now" meant that he would no longer be able to logistically attend meetings because he'd be too busy....but Benry was also alluding to the fact that, with him absent from the weekly book club, he would be absent from the rotation system, which meant Juliet would get the chance to select more books of her choosing for discussion on a more frequent basis - - so it was like Benry was saying to her, "Well, Juliet, it looks like you'll get to host book club meetings more often and subject everyone to more of your silly little book choices - - but at least I won't have to be around to endure it, because I have more important matters to attend to."

Also, does anyone find it to be an interesting parallel that while Juliet was baking her muffins, Desmond was probably making his fruit smoothie power shake down in the hatch at that very moment?

Hmmm, I wonder if maybe Danielle was smashing together some primitive cornmeal in her cave right before she felt the island shake from the plane crash? :rolleyes:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=25

I dont think the black lady at the book club is MS.Klue .....but in LTDA when j/k/s get hit with the stunners a black lady puts a bag on their heads....i beleive That is the lady...

If you look at the screencap provided by jarryjayo (thanks!), it sure looks like Ms. Klugh to me. And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't that also Ms. Klugh putting the bag over their heads in LTDA?

I just find it amusing that this community on an island in the Pacific, which exists for as-yet completely determined (but possibly nefarious) purposes, would engage in something as seemingly mundane as a book club. :71:

Yes, the Downtown lyrics talk about city streets, neon lights, she misses the city life. I thought it was interesting that Ben said "so i guess im out of the book club". Either one he saw stephen king and him not liking science fiction made the remark. OR, he saw the book and knew they were having a meeting, and he didn't wasnt told about it. There is obviously tension there. Also right before the earthquake she used the words "free will", I feel she may not have that on this island. Thus why she wants to go Downtown.
i think benry says that he is out of the bookclub because he knows now that the lostaways are there and he is going to have more important things to do.

What I liked about this scene is that even though it is set up in the same fashion as the season 2 opener, TPTB managed to surprise us yet again that an apparently modern and urban/suburban scene is taking place on the island.

I wonder if the other characters in the bookclub will show up again. Also, I realise that most of the others (Tom, Ethan, Benry) we know about were not included to avoid spoiling the surprise, but I wonder if only certain types of people within the others are part of the book club - is the book club suggestive of various structures or dynamics within the others, eg are these all the thinkers in the group, while the 'spies' such as goodwin and ethan couldn't be bothered with reading/intellextual discussions etc.
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What's interesting too about the book being "Carrie" is that it isn't a recent book. One would think that a book club of people who COULD get supplied from the outside easily would be reading something more "today."

It is not that interesting. In reality, just because a book is not modern (in the sense that it has just been published) does not mean it is not discussed by book clubs. Really, a good book club should be all over the place in choosing a genre or book. But, I of course believe that Carrie was chosen for a reason and not just because it is a good book.

I agree, gunslinger, Ben probably only reads the classics, the gothic novels.

I think the songs along with the expressions that Juliet was making during the lyrics may represent that she once knew what it was like to go "Downtown"... and misses it.
She definitely looked nostalgic in a very sad way.
Burning the muffins was a sign that she didn't really care about them. It is pretty hard to screw up muffins, unless you are distracted and don't pay attention to what you're doing.

Through her attitude toward the other group members and to Benry she makes it clear that she either does not want to be there or does not like the people that are there.

The club members to not appear to like her either. I sort of got the impression that she was there only because Ben wanted her there, and that nobody else (including herself) wanted her to be there. She wants more freedom than what the island offers.

That's why we never saw exactly which book it was. TPTB didn't want another "book that symbolizes something." They just wanted to tip their hats to King.Agreed.

I agree, we were only supposed to see the Stephen King name. However, someone had to get a book to use. Someone who knows something more than us (even if it was only the prop guy) picked the book about the supernatural kid (walt).

she was only in 2 shots, i think, at the beginning of the episode, and no lines, and i haven't seen anybody else mention it, but it sure was cool to see julie adams, heroine of "creature from the black lagoon". i hope her role fleshes out a little as the season progresses.

Also, I realise that most of the others (Tom, Ethan, Benry) we know about were not included to avoid spoiling the surprise, but I wonder if only certain types of people within the others are part of the book club - is the book club suggestive of various structures or dynamics within the others, eg are these all the thinkers in the group, while the 'spies' such as goodwin and ethan couldn't be bothered with reading/intellextual discussions etc.

That's what I would venture. Zeke doesn't particularly strike me as a lover of great literature.

Plus we saw that Ethan and Goodwin were outside when the book club members ran out of Juliet's house, so we can probably assume that Ethan and Goodwin weren't part of the book club to begin with.

The club members to not appear to like her either. I sort of got the impression that she was there only because Ben wanted her there, and that nobody else (including herself) wanted her to be there. She wants more freedom than what the island offers.


I don't know about all of the club members not likeing her. There was that one elderly women who seemed to like what Juliet was saying, or at the very least amused by it. Also, she looked worried that Juliet had the thing on her hand, and mentioned that Ethan hadn't finished her plumbing yet.