Was Jae Lee murdered by some assassin that secretly followed Jin into Jae Lee's apartment building or did he commit suicide? He had the pearl necklace in his hands.

Definitely a suicide imho, he was holding the pearls he had for Jin,

Yeah i was thinking the pearl necklace was signifying that it was suicide

legit, i think sun did it

i think that the necklace points to his suicide. he assumed that jin was there to avenge his affair with sun, so he did the "honorable" thing and threw himself off the balcony, taking the pearl necklace that he bought for sun with him.

now that's my first impression, having only watched the epi once, so i may change my mind later!

first thing i thought was that mayber suns dad did it. maybe he followed jin to make sure he got the job done, and when he didn't, he just finished it himself.

I don't think it was suicide. He was so scared of dying when Jin attacked him and he seemed relieved that Jin was giving him a second chance. Maybe Sun's father sent a back-up or maybe it's Sun herself.

i think that the necklace points to his suicide. he assumed that jin was there to avenge his affair with sun, so he did the "honorable" thing and threw himself off the balcony, taking the pearl necklace that he bought for sun with him.

now that's my first impression, having only watched the epi once, so i may change my mind later!

This is pretty much my impression as well...pretty much to the word.

first thing i thought was that mayber suns dad did it. maybe he followed jin to make sure he got the job done, and when he didn't, he just finished it himself.
I don't think Sun's dad is the kind of guy that does anything in person.

Necklace = suicide...I thought an assassin followed Jae as well until I saw the necklace in his hand..its all about the shame. Jae thought Jin knew he had been with his wife, the fact is Jin didn't even know that was the reason, otherwise I am sure he would have KILLED him himself. Suicide due to the shame of it all.

He was thrown off the building. The pearl necklace was just so it looked like a suicide.

i definitely think it's sun. we saw a "darker" side to her. and the line "you're not a killer" or whatever on the boat and then sun pulling the trigger? that's what sold it to me. also, with the pearls in his hand, she could have given those back and pushed him off.

I'd say a suicide. But I can't remember - did Sun take the pearls home with her? (if she took them it's definitely a murder)

I thought suicide, he loved her and realized he couldn't have her + pearls = suicide.

Thinking Sun threw Jae Lee from the building is just ridiculous.

women and old men cant overpower jae lee...even after he is badly beaten

I don't think Sun took the pearls (she refused them). I think she was so shamed at getting caught that she never saw Jae again. I think Jae was so shamed by his actions after Jin's benevolence in letting him off after he'd slept with Sun that he did the "honorable thing."

definitely not ridiculous.

1. only her father and him know/knew about their affair.

2. why show that she has been dishonest in the first scene?

3. parallel between shattering ballerina being pushed/knocked off a high place and Jae falling? hmm... and it's the title of the episode....

4. pearls in his hand. i realize it can be seen 2 ways but i see it as she gave them back and pushed him.

5. "you're not a killer, you won't shoot me" and sun pulls trigger...


these are just off the top of my head

and sun could "overpower" him if it was by surprise and unsuspected

If it was suicide...there are less drastic ways to go....drug overdose for example.

I don't think it was suicide. He was so scared of dying when Jin attacked him and he seemed relieved that Jin was giving him a second chance. Maybe Sun's father sent a back-up or maybe it's Sun herself.

That's what I was thinking too. But, I doubt it was Sun. I go with the "back-up".

Necklace = suicide...I thought an assassin followed Jae as well until I saw the necklace in his hand..its all about the shame. Jae thought Jin knew he had been with his wife, the fact is Jin didn't even know that was the reason, otherwise I am sure he would have KILLED him himself. Suicide due to the shame of it all.

Shame or hopelessness? Did he love Sun too much to consider a life somewhere else without her?

Very interesting thoughts, here... I immediately thought "suicide," but then I said to myself, "Wait, this is Lost we're talking about here..."

I thought it was definitely a suicide, out of disgrace and an unwillingness to leave the country and "abandon" Sun, even though she made it clear that she couldn't see him anymore.

When Jin comes home - right before he turns around to leave to "deliver the message" - doesn't it show Sun with the pearls, putting them away?

The first thing I thought was that Sun's father was in the apartment and finished what Jin could not. IMO definitely murder.

My impression was suicide out of shame and dishonor. I don't think anyone threw him off the balcony. However, I think maybe Jin did know what was going on with Sun.

really? did sun have the necklace when jin came home before he went out again??

if so that changes everything.
I think it is meant to be ambiguous and nothing picked up from this show would allow yout o determine the truth. sort of like when Sun was pregnant, we all wondered if she had an affair, nothing in the episode answered that definitively.


Same here, the fact that 'she isn't a killer' and then pulled the trigger by what appeared to be an accident when the boat started up told me it was meant to remain a mystery.



I say she did it. Everyone on this island has killed, haven't they?

When Jin comes home - right before he turns around to leave to "deliver the message" - doesn't it show Sun with the pearls, putting them away?

OH! I'm going to have to watch that again. I can see how there would be motivation. She didn't want Jin to kill Jae for her father. Could it be? Could she have killed Jae to protect the one innocent person in the whole mess? She would know that her father would not be happy if he learned that Jin did not finish the job. Argh...now I don't know what to think.:confused:

ETA: Could it have been the price for being married to Jin?

The first thing I thought was that Sun's father was in the apartment and finished what Jin could not. IMO definitely murder.

that's exactly what i'm thinking, and what i said earlier. also, where r u guys getting this idea about Sun killing him? why the heck would she do that? i know i can always be wrong but come on?

I say she did it. Everyone on this island has killed, haven't they? not that we know of. Jin, Claire, Locke, Boone, Shannon, Libby, Desmond, Hurley, etc. Have not killed (that we know of, of course. This can change).

Anyone think Jin may have seen an opportunity to take the pearls from Jae and give them to Sun?? They were right in front of him in a dead guys hand! And if Sun killed Jae, how on earth did she get the pearls if she shipped him out the window with them in his hand?? If she had the pearls when Jin got back, its because Jin took them from Jae and gave them to Sun.

I honestly don't think Sun could do it physically, I think there was someone else there that did it. What are the chances that the guy would jump right onto the car that Jin was in? I'm leaning towards a 2nd hitman hired by Sun's dad. How would she have gotten there so fast?

Even after seeing the theories and such, I still think it was suicide. But if I saw that Sun had the necklace before Jin left..... :eek: then I would believe.

not that we know of. Jin, Claire, Locke, Boone, Shannon, Libby, Desmond, Hurley, etc. Have not killed (that we know of, of course. This can change).

Desmond accidentally killed.. that guy. I'm having a blank out and can't remember his name. His hatch buddy.

Anyone think Jin may have seen an opportunity to take the pearls from Jae and give them to Sun?? They were right in front of him in a dead guys hand! And if Sun killed Jae, how on earth did she get the pearls if she shipped him out the window with them in his hand?? If she had the pearls when Jin got back, its because Jin took them from Jae and gave them to Sun.

was she wearing them at the funeral?? i didn't notice... was she? that's really weird if she is...

Anyone think Jin may have seen an opportunity to take the pearls from Jae and give them to Sun?? They were right in front of him in a dead guys hand! And if Sun killed Jae, how on earth did she get the pearls if she shipped him out the window with them in his hand?? If she had the pearls when Jin got back, its because Jin took them from Jae and gave them to Sun.

Wait a second, I thought he said that Sun had the pearls *before* Jin went to deliver the message. You're saying she was putting them away after the whole affair? I'm confused now.

Edit: Ama, his name was Kelvin.

I thought she was holding a plate when Jin came back.

I think Jae killed himself. I believe the glass ballerina parallel isn't about Sun "dropping" people/things, I think the telling part there was her lying about it. Sun's secrets, along with her father's cold, calculating nature is what got the maid fired; it's also why Jae killed himself...a combination between something Sun's dad ordered and a secret Sun kept costs someone dearly twice here. I think Jae felt bad about the secret with her, and thought Jin knew but pardoned him anyways, took the necklace, and leapt.

When Jin comes home - right before he turns around to leave to "deliver the message" - doesn't it show Sun with the pearls, putting them away? I re-watched the scene really quickly, didn't see the pearls.

I thought she was holding a plate when Jin came back.

I think Jae killed himself. I believe the glass ballerina parallel isn't about Sun "dropping" people/things, I think the telling part there was her lying about it. Sun's secrets, along with her father's cold, calculating nature is what got the maid fired; it's also why Jae killed himself...a combination between something Sun's dad ordered and a secret Sun kept costs someone dearly twice here. I think Jae felt bad about the secret with her, and thought Jin knew but pardoned him anyways, took the necklace, and leapt.

Ok. Maybe it was a plate. :undecide: That is a good suggestion as to the parallel.

I think a huge clue was in the line Colleen said to Sun on the boat. Keep in mind that the Other's know everything about our Losties. I don't have the exact quote, but she told Sun something like, "No matter what you may think, you are not a killer." I think that somehow Sun feels like she caused Jae's death, and this makes me think that she was present at the suicide. Of course, she may feel guilty for having had an affair, which would in turn put Jae in a situation where he felt like he had to commit suicide, but (and this would lend itself very conveniently to another flashback...) it would make sense that Sun was somewhere very close to Jae when he fell/jumped/was pushed off the balcony. Whether or not she pushed him...who knows?

Desmond accidentally killed.. that guy. I'm having a blank out and can't remember his name. His hatch buddy. oups! my bad. Forgot about Kelvin.:frown:

I thought for sure it was a suicide, but a friend I watch with thought Sun did it. Haven't a clue.

When I saw it at first, I immediately thought suicide, but the person watching with me immediately thought murder. I am leaning toward someone following Jin, to make sure that the deed was done.
I think the pearls are to make it look like a suicide but isn't. Jae looked happy to be spared... but I was thinking that maybe he couldn't bare to live without Sun.

This adds another layer of meaning to why Sun didn't leave Jin at the airport---maybe she didn't want to run alone, now that Jae is gone. And she sees Jin with the flower and thinks maybe things can change. And she'd rather give that a shot than be alone.

My impression was suicide out of shame and dishonor. I don't think anyone threw him off the balcony. However, I think maybe Jin did know what was going on with Sun.

I agree that there is a very good chance that Jin knows. The way the show cut back to on-island actually framed it that he might know.

OH! I'm going to have to watch that again. I can see how there would be motivation. She didn't want Jin to kill Jae for her father. Could it be? Could she have killed Jae to protect the one innocent person in the whole mess? She would know that her father would not be happy if he learned that Jin did not finish the job. Argh...now I don't know what to think.:confused:

ETA: Could it have been the price for being married to Jin?

Woah... now *that* actually makes me think there is a chance that Sun did. I really would have never thought it would be possible, but Sun can be really surprising. She shot Colleen. She poisoned Michael by accident, to try to poison Jin.


I think Jae killed himself. I believe the glass ballerina parallel isn't about Sun "dropping" people/things, I think the telling part there was her lying about it. Sun's secrets, along with her father's cold, calculating nature is what got the maid fired; it's also why Jae killed himself...a combination between something Sun's dad ordered and a secret Sun kept costs someone dearly twice here. I think Jae felt bad about the secret with her, and thought Jin knew but pardoned him anyways, took the necklace, and leapt.

This is the most compelling to me. She isn't actually the one that pushes Jae, but she is complicit in the murder because she keeps the lie about her "affair" with Jae a secret.

I agree that there is a very good chance that Jin knows. The way the show cut back to on-island actually framed it that he might know.


And remember that Jin said he knew she betrayed him. Perhaps there was a double meaning there?

I thought she was holding a plate when Jin came back.

I think Jae killed himself. I believe the glass ballerina parallel isn't about Sun "dropping" people/things, I think the telling part there was her lying about it. Sun's secrets, along with her father's cold, calculating nature is what got the maid fired; it's also why Jae killed himself...a combination between something Sun's dad ordered and a secret Sun kept costs someone dearly twice here. I think Jae felt bad about the secret with her, and thought Jin knew but pardoned him anyways, took the necklace, and leapt.

Of course this is probably completely baseless speculation, but your post made me think of another possible scenario. What if Sun did follow Jin? After seeing that Jin didn't kill Jae, might he have asked her to come with him? Could he have given her the pearls again at that time, and she dropped them off the balcony and Jae fell in an attempt to catch them? That would certainly make the "dropping" theme interesting. Hmm...

Of course this is probably completely baseless speculation, but your post made me think of another possible scenario. What if Sun did follow Jin? After seeing that Jin didn't kill Jae, might he have asked her to come with him? Could he have given her the pearls again at that time, and she dropped them off the balcony and Jae fell in an attempt to catch them? That would certainly make the "dropping" theme interesting. Hmm...

There's still too many things that wouldn't make sense about Sun killing Jae... if she realized that Jin didn't kill him, why would she do it herself in the end? Note: I'm saying if she actually *realized* that Jin had been there and let him live.

Oooh weird. Unlikely, but totally cool to think about.

The more I think about this the more I think Jae's death is a red herring suicide. He killed himself. The flashbacks' theme center around Sun's willingness to tell a lie to someone's face no matter who it hurts. Now I fear for Jin, considering we've seen her lie to him (at the VERY least, the part where she told him she'd never been with another man!).

Jae Lee did have a former lover in the United States that he could've returned to...Why commit suicide if there are other possible options?

There's still too many things that wouldn't make sense about Sun killing Jae... if she realized that Jin didn't kill him, why would she do it herself in the end? Note: I'm saying if she actually *realized* that Jin had been there and let him live.

No, I meant that it might have been an accident, like the glass ballerina.

legit, i think sun did it

I agree. Unless Jin was followed, Sun was the only person who knew that at that exact time he was intending to carry out the 'message'. After Jin couldn't follow through with the murder, Sun went into the apartment. Jae tried to tempt her again with the pearl necklace, and instead she threw him over the building.

An immediate suicide would make no sense after he was so scared for his life with Jin, and there'd be no reason for him to have the necklace out unless Sun was in the apartment when he was pushed over.

If Sun really is a cold-blooded killer, her character just got a lot more interesting and there's a lot more we don't know about her. When the Others were invading the boat, I was half expecting her to come out and reveal herself to be one of them.

As it stands, the dead Other is probably the only one who recognized it was Sun on the boat. So they still don't know what she's capable of. This might end up being an important wild card later in the show.

Does no one else find it significant that Colleen mentioned to Sun that "no matter what you may think, you are not a killer." There is a good chance the Others know about this situation, and they know that for some reason Sun feels like she caused the death. This makes me think that Sun was present at the balcony incident.

No, I meant that it might have been an accident, like the glass ballerina.

Oh, yea, sorry shooty- I had a bit in my post that was directly to what you said but.. it's not there now, lol. O_o But, yea, I can see it being an accident. Grabbing for the necklace and then falling... I can't see that, but I do think it could have been an accident of some kind. ;)

He felt shame, thus he killed himself.

Here's the thing...did Sun and Jae actually have sex? She does say that "she can't." Could it be they got all naked, but when the time came, she balked? Or was it she couldn't have a round two for being guilty about round one?

In any case, there's more to Sun than we thought!

I too thought Sun could conceivably have run up to warn him, but I dont think she pushed him. I also dont think its a 100% that she DID even break the ballerina. Lost is all about appearance and reality right?--for all we really know, the maid did break it. And Jin might have known about Sun's affair-(I thought that was possible because he was so emotional when beating him up)or he might not have....we need more MORE! :)

Here's the thing...did Sun and Jae actually have sex? She does say that "she can't." Could it be they got all naked, but when the time came, she balked? Or was it she couldn't have a round two for being guilty about round one?

In any case, there's more to Sun than we thought!

I'm pretty sure they did. Even if they didn't, I think that all she meant when she said that was that she couldn't go on with the affair. And even Jae seemed to imply a length of time when he said he was tired of "sharing" her.

remember the talk last season about good vs bad? doing bad things for the greater good???
most of our losties did bad things for the greater good...(I started a thread like this here but it disappeared into cyberspace somewhere)
I think that the Others think that you are good if you do bad things for the greater good...what they are doing and thinking,...,,

Jae Lee was whacked! Did you see the look of relief when Jin decided to let Jae Lee go...if Jae Lee would leave the country??? Jae Lee looked like "I'm outta here...I can't believe he's letting me get away".

I think Sun's dad was testing Jin to see if Jin had the skills/heart to whack Jae Lee. When Jin couldn't go through with it...the "replacement killer" stepped in...

Let's see...leave your family...your home...your friends...the woman you love...and NEVER attempt to make contact ever again...or face certain death.

Or...

Jump off a balcony holding the pearls you wanted to give your lover....disgraced?

Me thinks we are overthinking all of this, people. Fun speculation. But I think Jin's "line in the sand" ultimatum...left Jae with no will to live.

The only thing I'm even willing to believe is Piak sent a back up killer....that it was all just a test to guage Jin's loyalty to him.

BTW...Colleen said..."I know you Sun...I know you are not a killer...and despite what you may think...I am not the enemy...WE are not the enemy"...

Not..."Despite what you may think...YOU are not a killer"...Just to clear up THAT lil bugaboo.

My immediate reaction was that he was murdered. I didn't even think of suicide. Remember Jin just wanted to deliver a "message", but Sun's dad said that wasn't good enough. We saw in a previous flashback that a man was supposed to be killed, but Jin wouldn't let that happen so he just beat him up. I think Sun's dad knows he has a problem actually finishing a job so he sent a backup.

Knowing Jin couldn't go through with it, I think Jae was murder by Mr Paik or one of his goons.

I am not so sure about another hit man...I think perhaps Sun did have it in her to do it....I am still up in the air about it.....

If he jumped he would have landed face down. he's only falling for 2 sec tops. he landed face up. indicating backing up to window then pushed out. pearls in hand indicates suicide but TPTB nicely leaves it open to make Sun dark if they like down the road. IMHO

Ive forgotten now what Jin's business was on the airplane. Was Sun's dad upset with him and sending him on a final mission to have him killed, or was Jin going off to kill someone?

Murder. Otherwise the glass ballerina scene makes no sense.

Strange that Jin didn't even bother to look up towards Jae Lee's condo balcony to make certain someone wasn't still up there. I think Jin just accepted that Jae Lee killed himself.

If he jumped he would have landed face down. he's only falling for 2 sec tops. he landed face up. indicating backing up to window then pushed out. pearls in hand indicates suicide but TPTB nicely leaves it open to make Sun dark if they like down the road. IMHO

Wow, I think you're right. If you were falling you *might* be able to turn to face the ground but I don't think you would be able to turn to face *up*. Or, even if you could turn to face up, you wouldn't be able (or want to) look away from the ground before you blacked out, right?

I would say suicide, but the scene so reminded me of Infernal Affairs, a.k.a. the movie The Departed was a remake of but the studio downplayed it.

My immediate reaction ws murder. I, too, thought Jin would have looked up to the balcony and we'd see Mr. Paik standing there.

Ive forgotten now what Jin's business was on the airplane. Was Sun's dad upset with him and sending him on a final mission to have him killed, or was Jin going off to kill someone?
He had to deliver two watches to associates of Mr. Paik in Australia and Los Angeles. I still hope they develop that plotline.

Found it extremely coincidental that Jae Lee landed right on Jin's car roof just as he was about to drive away. Dramatic effect I suppose.

Wow so many interesting thoughts I find myself bouncing back and forth between what I think!!

My initial reaction was things are never what they seem as well as things are always the LAST thing you ever DREAMED of as far as mysteries go...and just knew it would apply to Lost as well. So you could actually take that either way--either murder by Sun being the last thing you'd guess or the fact that it was really suicide...too many questions not enough answers!!

I REALLY like the part about maybe she didn't even break the glass ballerina....*cue spooky music*

Yes, there definitely seemed to be a lot of set up in this episode in terms of what's going on with Sun and not much delivery. We'll definitely see more of this.

Sun killed Jae. That explains why she's not one of the "good" ones....

I'm fairly certain that Jae committed suicide. He was holding the necklace in his hands, showing that he still loved Sun, and if he couldn't be with her, he had nothing more to live for.

first thing i thought was that mayber suns dad did it. maybe he followed jin to make sure he got the job done, and when he didn't, he just finished it himself.

The first thing I thought was that Sun's father was in the apartment and finished what Jin could not. IMO definitely murder.

This is what my hubby and I have been thinking. You have to remember that this was a dishonor to his own family and would, therefore, maybe in his mind, be something he wanted to make sure was taken care of "in family".

Anyone think Jin may have seen an opportunity to take the pearls from Jae and give them to Sun?? They were right in front of him in a dead guys hand! And if Sun killed Jae, how on earth did she get the pearls if she shipped him out the window with them in his hand?? If she had the pearls when Jin got back, its because Jin took them from Jae and gave them to Sun.


Jae Lee was whacked! Did you see the look of relief when Jin decided to let Jae Lee go...if Jae Lee would leave the country??? Jae Lee looked like "I'm outta here...I can't believe he's letting me get away".

I think Sun's dad was testing Jin to see if Jin had the skills/heart to whack Jae Lee. When Jin couldn't go through with it...the "replacement killer" stepped in...

I didn't see Sun with the pearls and I think Jin was horrified to have been sent on this assignment since he knew and respected Jae (at least at one time he did). Did he have suspicions about their affair? Hard to say until we get a story that more skewed to his POV. I don't think so.


BTW...Colleen said..."I know you Sun...I know you are not a killer...and despite what you may think...I am not the enemy...WE are not the enemy"...

Not..."Despite what you may think...YOU are not a killer"...Just to clear up THAT lil bugaboo. I think that's the thing that bugs me the most about the "Others". They claim they aren't the enemy but they never tried with the Lostaways to meet them and welcome them to the island like "normal" people would. Sun has seen and heard about these people are capable of and rightly shoots the heifer. :biggrin:

Strange that Jin didn't even bother to look up towards Jae Lee's condo balcony to make certain someone wasn't still up there. I think Jin just accepted that Jae Lee killed himself.

I think he didn't want to know. I think he was sick at heart and wanted to get the heck out of there.

I thought it was suicide, but having him land on his back is odd if he jumped off the balcony.

why would sun kill Jae? what would be her motive? And if sun was in the room and watched her hubby go all comando on Jae she wouldn't have just stayed in the shaddows, we would have herd a scream or something. The only thing is if she came in after it happened. There was the time that it took jin to get down all those floors to his car to consider too. what happened in those moments? but i don't think it was sun.

my fiance think Sun did it

I think this was murder. Jae Lee was not exactly steeped in tradition, so the shame factor seems quite an odd consideration given his character so far. He was dating/engaged to an American, without telling his parents. He played this game of being interested in Sun, only to deceive his parents. He taught a sheltered, married woman English in order to help her escape her marriage, he had an affair with her. His actions are not exactly honorable, so why would he be so ashamed now that he would take his life? Sun's Dad had him killed.:eek2:

I think this was murder. Jae Lee was not exactly steeped in tradition, so the shame factor seems quite an odd consideration given his character so far. He was dating/engaged to an American, without telling his parents. He played this game of being interested in Sun, only to deceive his parents. He taught a sheltered, married woman English in order to help her escape her marriage, he had an affair with her. His actions are not exactly honorable, so why would he be so ashamed now that he would take his life? Sun's Dad had him killed.:eek2:


Well, the fact that he hid all of these things from his family seems to indicate that he might not have been as much of a rebel as he would have liked. It's one thing to do all of those things on the sly, but another to do them in the open.

i definitely think it's sun. we saw a "darker" side to her. and the line "you're not a killer" or whatever on the boat and then sun pulling the trigger? that's what sold it to me. also, with the pearls in his hand, she could have given those back and pushed him off.

But that would imply that the others do not know everything about the losties' lives prior to the island, since Colleen(?) wouldn't have said to Sun that she knows she's not a killer.

I don't the others know EVERYTHING about the losties but enough to think they know who they are as people.

If Sun did kill Jae then in theory only two people know about it,one of whom just took a flying leap. They knew things like Sawyers real name, where Jack graduated etc..these things can be found out through databases etc.

I think she was the killer and maybe thats what the title of the episode alludes to as well.

I thought it a suicide at first, and that Jin put 2 and 2 together when seeing the pearl necklace in Jae's hand. But I buy murder, just not that Sun did it. She was scared for Jae, not wanting to kill him. Jae could've been pushed out backwards so that he landed on his back. Landing on Jin's car was probably a plot convenience of the writers'.

As always, this ep has layers that do well to mull over.

Considering that Mr. Paik was more than willing to kill a politician for forcing him to temporarily close his factory, don't you think he'd want to make sure of killing the man his wife was possibly having a sordid affair with? Remembering that Jin couldn't kill the politician in the end, Mr. Paik may have sent along one of his hitmen to finish the job.

Right b4 Jae hits Jin's car you hear the sound of glass breaking.

Not like I know from experience, but I don't think it's common for someone jumping out of a building to throw themselves through a pane glass window.

Also I think Sun pushed him out (maybe accidentally) and Colleen's quote definitely throws more suspiscions her way.

Didn't this parallel another backstory in which Jin was unable to kill someone he was sent to kill? Didn't Sun's father send someone in behind Jin to finish the job in an earlier episode (the one where Hurley was on the TV in the background winning the lottery)? I assumed that the pearls were in his hand to deliver a symbolic message. I suspect Sun's father had backup for Jin again.

BTW...Colleen said..."I know you Sun...I know you are not a killer...and despite what you may think...I am not the enemy...WE are not the enemy"...

Not..."Despite what you may think...YOU are not a killer"...Just to clear up THAT lil bugaboo.

Oh sorry. Thanks for clearing that up. It seems I was overtheorizing in my head as I watched again. Maybe I just need to watch the show first. Then make the theories. :biggrin:

The first thing I thought was suicide, but then I remembered that Mr. Paik knew that Jin failed to deliver a previous "message" and send someone else to make sure it was done right. He could have easily sent someone else to follow Jin to make sure the job was done.
I'm still on the fence with this one, but why would Jae seem so scared of Jin and death if he was thinking of killing himself anyway?
I do not believe that Sun had anything to do with it... and how would she overpower Jae and throw him out a window anyway? She didn't accept the pearls at all because she said she couldn't explain them to Jin.

Right b4 Jae hits Jin's car you hear the sound of glass breaking.

Not like I know from experience, but I don't think it's common for someone jumping out of a building to throw themselves through a pane glass window.

Also I think Sun pushed him out (maybe accidentally) and Colleen's quote definitely throws more suspiscions her way.

Missed that Damian, I'll have to go give it another listen. Like I would hate to have to watch it again.:rolleyes:

And the Colleen quote, makes for interesting thoughts.

My first reaction when I saw it was that knowing that Jin wouldn't do it, Mr Paik sent someone with him to finish the job. Jae looked scared of dying, so I assumed it was murder. I hadn't considered the pearls as an indication of suicide, but I guess it makes sense. Either way I don't really care that much - fine with me either way.

I thought definitely murder, imo. Wasn't he planning on going to the States anyway? I think someone shadowed Jin and when he didn't finish the job, that person did.

Jae was probably killed by the same hitman that went with Jin to that politician's house in the Season 1 episode "In Translation". I really doubt Sun pushed or threw him through the glass window of his condo. I also doubt her father would come himself and kill Jae.

I posted this in another thread but it seems to fit here too. The Colleen line "I know you Sun, your not a killer". Sun looked pretty shock when Colleen knew her name and that she seemed to know about her. Besides being scrared out of her mind maybe Sun was wondering What else Colleen knew about? Maybe she shot her partly to shut her up? After this episode I'm convinced thae babys not Jins (I was sooo hoping it was). I don't know if this adds to the theory that Sun killed Jae Lee? I'm going with a second hitman. Maybe Suns Dad found out Jin didn't kill that other guy he was suppose to last season and sent some back-up?

What I don't get is that the flashbacks are all from Sun's POV- so why would we see the interaction between Jin and Jae if she wasn't there?

I think Suns dad knew Jin wouldn't go through with it and threw him out of the window after Jin left.

What I don't get is that the flashbacks are all from Sun's POV- so why would we see the interaction between Jin and Jae if she wasn't there?
Even though they seemed to focus on Sun's face prior to the flashbacks, they were from both Jin and Sun's perspectives. The meeting between Jin and Mr. Paik. Jin waiting in the car for Jae to get home.

Is it possible that Sun went to Jae's apartment to talk to him since she knew Jin would be gone for a while? She just happened to be there when Jin showed up? Nevermind. That doesn't make sense since Jin followed Jae into the building. Sun most likely didn't have a key to Jae's apartment to let herself in. And even if she did, there wouldn't have been time for her to hide. What I was thinking was that maybe Sun told Jae it was over so he jumped. Wow. It's pretty amazing when you can shoot down your own theory as you type it.

I think I'm still leaning towards murder though when I first watched it I thought suicide. The only thing that doesn't add up is the pearls in his hand. Maybe he was planning to jump all along even if Jin didn't show up? No. That doesn't make sense either. I give up. :ermm:

Wow, I really don't know what to think on this one.

A good motive for suicide would be shame. But Jae was so scared to die when Jin was about to shoot him! Maybe he did feel shame? But he was holding the pearls...what was the deal with that?

On the flip side, I agree with the thought that Sun's father knew he wouldn't go through with it, therefore sending someone else to finish the job?

There are a whole lot of questions. The biggest one I have is, will we ever know?

Don't mean to sound stupid, but does it really matter whether it was a suicide or murder? Isn't the important thing, plot-wise, that Jin managed to keep his soul intact by showing the kid some mercy? I suppose it is possible that there are som suspects out there, but what matters is that it wasn't Jin who did it.

Definitely a suicide imho, he was holding the pearls he had for Jin,

no, sun followed jin and killed her lover after he left

Don't mean to sound stupid, but does it really matter whether it was a suicide or murder? Isn't the important thing, plot-wise, that Jin managed to keep his soul intact by showing the kid some mercy? I suppose it is possible that there are som suspects out there, but what matters is that it wasn't Jin who did it.
I guess it matters whether or not Sun was responsible for killing Jae Lee, as some people have speculated.

I think Sun did it to keep him quite about the affair. definatly a surprise to see him go

With all due respect, there was really nothing in the epi to suggest murder, and a lot to suggest suicide. Jae was weeping after Jin left and was holding the pearls when he crashed. Seems pretty cut and dry that he jumped bc he is in love with Sun and could never have her. I'm not really getting where this murder business is coming from, other than us fans love to see what's not there where this show is concerned. I think our collective imagination is getting the better of us.

With all due respect, there was really nothing in the epi to suggest murder, and a lot to suggest suicide. Jae was weeping after Jin left and was holding the pearls when he crashed. Seems pretty cut and dry that he jumped bc he is in love with Sun and could never have her. I'm not really getting where this murder business is coming from, other than us fans love to see what's not there where this show is concerned. I think our collective imagination is getting the better of us.Ok. Now I'm leaning back towards it being suicide. I can see him sitting there with the pearls sobbing and then jumping since he thinks Jin knows about the affair. I'm sure it took Jin a few minutes to get to his car afterwards so Jae didn't jump immediately after Jin left.

not that we know of. Jin, Claire, Locke, Boone, Shannon, Libby, Desmond, Hurley, etc. Have not killed (that we know of, of course. This can change).

I think they all could have killed someone:

Jin-He was an enforcer, someone easily could have died.
Claire- we don't know much about her history.
Locke - he killed Boone, by not letting Jack know his legs had been crushed.
Shannon - could have killed in self defense. (unborn baby)
Libby - She may have been institutionalized because of a murder/manslaughter
Desmond- killed Kelvin
Hurley - responsible for several numbers related deaths ( a stretch) and he killed his imaginary friend.

Necklace = suicide...I thought an assassin followed Jae as well until I saw the necklace in his hand..its all about the shame. Jae thought Jin knew he had been with his wife, the fact is Jin didn't even know that was the reason, otherwise I am sure he would have KILLED him himself. Suicide due to the shame of it all.

Stole the words right out of my mouth.

Thought of a follow up team like in a previous eppy, but the necklace made me think that he couldnt live without Sun. With that said, he also looked to wimpy to go out Hara-Kari, so he opted for the quicker, less painfull solution.

Namaste, Eric.

I am for suicide due to fear of Jin and shame for his affair with Sun.

I think our collective imagination is getting the better of us.

Amen, Brutha!

Sometimes I think we (the fans) over analyze too much.

Or Not enough!:biggrin:

With all due respect, there was really nothing in the epi to suggest murder, and a lot to suggest suicide. Jae was weeping after Jin left and was holding the pearls when he crashed. Seems pretty cut and dry that he jumped bc he is in love with Sun and could never have her. I'm not really getting where this murder business is coming from, other than us fans love to see what's not there where this show is concerned. I think our collective imagination is getting the better of us.

really? there were many points brought about...

Murder
1. Mr. Piak really wanted him dead and knew Jin had problems with finishing the job
2. He landed face up
3. He was very relieved when Jin was going to let him live
4. He does not seem like he is totally "with" his culture. he had an american lover, was going to move there, was having an affair, etc, etc. so honorably killing himself seems unlikely
5. Someone heard shattering glass before we saw him land

just to name a few... and i really really didn't see him as a guy who would kill himself for honor, even though i'm very well aware that the culture calls for it. the pearls in his hand could go for either side, in my opinion, so it just depends on how you look at that evidence.
100%
and about over analyzing too much... um, i can see how if looking to see if the same lamp shows up in two different Others' houses and whether it's a clue or not being over analytical. but speculating about the death of a character on the show?? are you serious? the fact that Jae died after Jin let him live is very mysterious, also the fact that there are 108 posts on this thread with people seeming very split on what exactly happened makes it a very legitimate conversation

I think they all could have killed someone:

Jin-He was an enforcer, someone easily could have died.
Claire- we don't know much about her history.
Locke - he killed Boone, by not letting Jack know his legs had been crushed.
Shannon - could have killed in self defense. (unborn baby)
Libby - She may have been institutionalized because of a murder/manslaughter
Desmond- killed Kelvin
Hurley - responsible for several numbers related deaths ( a stretch) and he killed his imaginary friend.Wasn't the whole reason he was in the mental hospital that he blamed himself for killing those people on the deck? Even though it wasn't really his fault?

I'm still torn between the whole murder vs. suicide thing. There's so much good evidence on both sides. I wonder if we'll ever find out for sure.

Wow, I was so sure when I watched it that it was murder, but after reading all this, I'm not so sure. I'm still leaning that way, but who knows?

Since he didn't actually kill Jae, do you think that Jin would go ahead and tell Mr. Paik that he only roughed him up and he killed himself after? That doesn't seem like something you would tell a guy like Paik. This is probably setting up Jin's flashback where Paik will ask him to kill other people since he already thinks Jin is capable of it.

althought I have not read the last 4 pages of this...I wanted to say I really think Jin did kill Hae...a common thread with the characters is that they have allowed someone to die...Jae is sun's death....most of the deaths have been for the betterment of society...not sure why Jae's death made society better though....

Jae didn't scream on his way down did he? If he was thrown or pushed wouldn't he have screamed? Perhaps it was suicide.

Right b4 Jae hits Jin's car you hear the sound of glass breaking.

Not like I know from experience, but I don't think it's common for someone jumping out of a building to throw themselves through a pane glass window.

Also I think Sun pushed him out (maybe accidentally) and Colleen's quote definitely throws more suspiscions her way.

I took a listen to the scene, I don't hear any glass breaking, the only sounds I noitced were the car door opening and closing, someone blowing a whistle, and people talking in the background, then a fluttering sound -which I guess is the sound of Jae just before he hits the car.

Sun killed Jae Lee.

Since he didn't actually kill Jae, do you think that Jin would go ahead and tell Mr. Paik that he only roughed him up and he killed himself after? That doesn't seem like something you would tell a guy like Paik. This is probably setting up Jin's flashback where Paik will ask him to kill other people since he already thinks Jin is capable of it.

Posted this as a new topic because it wasn't about whether Jin killed him or not but about what people think will happen between Jin and Paik next. I don't see why it should have been moved.

i definitely think it's sun. we saw a "darker" side to her. and the line "you're not a killer" or whatever on the boat and then sun pulling the trigger? that's what sold it to me. also, with the pearls in his hand, she could have given those back and pushed him off.

my words exactly. Sun put the pearls in his hand to make it look like a suicide, but she's the one who did it. She knew that if he wasn't gone, she'd have that temtation there forever. And she new that her father knew about their affair... which could potentially be dangerous. She could have done it to "make up" for her actions for her father.

Especially after that flashback -- I think that was shown for a reason... perhaps being that Sun isn't always honest and has a darker side to her we don't know. ??

Sun killing him? That's ridiculous. The timing is all wrong.

As for Jae not screamiing while falling, I think that he was KILLED BEFORE he was thrown. He fell too perfectly on Jin's car... he was thrown there, but killed before hand.

One of Sun's father's men must have done it.

I saw he killed himself. He was holding the beads in his hand and he was pretty shook up when Jin came in.

lol. this reminds me of the "anna lucia didn't kill shannon" thread from S2. except this time, we have less evidence than we did then.

I'm in the "Sun killed Jae" camp.

It doesn't make any sense to me that the writers would have one of her father's henchmen do it. I mean, what's the purpose in that? They could have just left it as Jin left it, and we could assume that Jae left the country and never returned.

If you accept my premise, then that seems to leave two possibilities:

1. Suicide
2. Sun is the murderer

I just can't get my arms around the suicide thing. As already mentioned on this thread, he CLEARLY did not want to die and was INCREDIBLY relieved when Jin removed the gun form his head.

I think the red herring was the necklace itself. It lends itself to suicide, but it is too obvious. This IS Lost, ya know.

This along with the symbolism of Sun breaking the glass ballerina, and with the shooting of Colleen, and with the fact that Sun was shown to be a deceitful liar the ENTIRE episode, to me points to her as Jae's killer.

Now I'll duck for cover.

Necklace = suicide...I thought an assassin followed Jae as well until I saw the necklace in his hand..its all about the shame. Jae thought Jin knew he had been with his wife, the fact is Jin didn't even know that was the reason, otherwise I am sure he would have KILLED him himself. Suicide due to the shame of it all.

I agree.

If Sun was all that concerned with the family honor or getting caught, she wouldn't have had the affair.

Paik wasn't a hands on guy.

I vote for suicide. He loved Sun. He couldn't have her. He shamed all involved. He did the "honorable" thing.

ETA: I expected Jin to look up and see someone on the balcony to indicate it was a murder. He didn't. It wasn't. Sun as murderess is out of the question.

I came up with a theory today: It was the woman that Jae went to America for. Maybe Libby?

I'm not going to push it, but I'm just putting it out there. I think he commited suicide, this is just a more interesting option.

No it was suicide. The pearls in his hand gave it away to suicide. He told Sun in the beginning of the episode that he wanted her, I forget what he said. But that he was tired of hiding. When Jin came to the house he thought he knew about the affair. He can't have Sunso he killed himself. Jin only got that strange suspecting look because he really had no clue why the guy would jump out of a window and kill himself and the pearls was really wierd if you didn't know what was going on.

I came up with a theory today: It was the woman that Jae went to America for. Maybe Libby?

LIBBY!!! Unlikely, but a cool theory nonetheless.;)
You'd think she would want to get revenge on Sun too, though.

I'm in the "Sun killed Jae" camp.

It doesn't make any sense to me that the writers would have one of her father's henchmen do it. I mean, what's the purpose in that? They could have just left it as Jin left it, and we could assume that Jae left the country and never returned.


But now Jin feels guilty and partially responsible for driving a man to suicide, and Sun guilty and partially responsible for both her refusal to run away and for getting caught and driving the man she loved to suicide. It is one more issue that can float between them, unspoken. And it starts a lot of speculation.

I think Dad sent a back up hitman. Consider that he had the maid fired because he was honor bound by the word of his daughter that the maid was responsible for breaking the ballerina. To not fire the maid was to call his daughter a liar.

Why is it such a stretch to believe that a man who orders people beaten and killed on regular basis would order a back up killer to make sure that his daughter’s adulterous lover? The affair impugned his honor, the honor of his daughter, and the honor of his son-in-law. Dad sent Jin to do the job because it was his place as the man who was cheated on. But if Jin couldn't finish the job - and Dad had every reason to believe that Jin couldn't because of their conversation - then Dad was for certain going to send along back up to make sure that Jae was good and dead.


I don't think Sun did it, because I can't think of a reason why she would. To prevent Jae from telling Jin? Jae didn't indicate in anyway that he was going to, and it didn't seem like Jin and Jae were associated in a way that could lead to Jin's inadvertantly finding out. To prevent her father from telling Jin? She obviously wasn't certain Jae's death would prevent her father from telling Jin about the affair, or she wouldn't have asked her father the question at Jae's funeral.

I don't think Sun did it, because I can't think of a reason why she would. To prevent Jae from telling Jin? Jae didn't indicate in anyway that he was going to, and it didn't seem like Jin and Jae were associated in a way that could lead to Jin's inadvertantly finding out. To prevent her father from telling Jin? She obviously wasn't certain Jae's death would prevent her father from telling Jin about the affair, or she wouldn't have asked her father the question at Jae's funeral.

She could be protecting Jin. She knew that if her father found out Jin didn't kill the guy, Jin would be in trouble. And indirectly because of her, so she protected him.

I'm not sure what to think, just thought of a reason why Sun would kill Jae.

Was Jae Lee murdered by some assassin that secretly followed Jin into Jae Lee's apartment building or did he commit suicide? He had the pearl necklace in his hands.

Sun did it. She put the pearls in his hand. This created a juxstaposition to the comment later on the boat when the woman (name?) said "You're no murderer" but she was wrong. Sun had no problem pulling the trigger.

The key point is that she killed to save face the first time (the affair with Jae Lee) and she killed the save face the second time (betrayal of Jin vis a vis Sayeed which led to the boat being compromised by the others).

i think the maid did it.

I think it was suicide because he thought Jin knew and thought that he would never be able to contact Sun again. He was in despair and ashamed. Even if it was murder, how can anyone think Sun did it? She loved him. It's one thing to lie about a broken figurine or shoot someone in self defense, but to shove a loved one off of a balcony? We've seen nothing to indicate that Sun is capable of that kind of deed.

Desmond accidentally killed.. that guy. I'm having a blank out and can't remember his name. His hatch buddy.

We don't know if Inman is dead or not. All we saw was that the back of his head was a little bloody. Desmond didn't mention burying him, did he? Just food for thought.

She could be protecting Jin. She knew that if her father found out Jin didn't kill the guy, Jin would be in trouble. And indirectly because of her, so she protected him.

If Sun were protecting Jin by murdering Jae, she would first have to know 1) that her father was going to have Jae killed, and 2) that her father would ask Jin to do it. We know that Sun knows her father isn't the most moral guy around, but we still don't have confirmation that she knows for certain the depths that her father sinks to, or that Sun knows the exact nature of Jin's work for her father. She has hints and fears, maybe, but no real proof that we've seen.

:wallbash: Oh, wait, crap, I know how she could figure it out. Jin came home with a file folder full of information on Jae. Did anyone see him leave with it in his hand? If not, then Sun could have looked at the file, put all her suspicions together. She could follow Jin to the hotel. She could watch the fight, and see Jin pull the gun but not fire it, and hear Jin tell Jea to get out of the country. If she realized that her father wanted Jin to kill Jae, then yes she would be afraid of repecussion for her husband. In that case, yes, I can see her turning on the charm, luring Jae to the balcony with a story about running to America together, and pushing him over the balcony when he tries to put the pearls around her neck.

But the chances are so slim, I can't really believe it until I see it in a flashback.

I think the maid did it.
Snirk. :grin:

I don't think it was suicide. He was so scared of dying when Jin attacked him and he seemed relieved that Jin was giving him a second chance. Maybe Sun's father sent a back-up or maybe it's Sun herself.



I completely agree. There is no way he killed himself. And landing on Jins car was somewhat weird too. Maybe the person who murdered him was working for Paik (most likely) and threw him on Jins car as a warning.

Doesn't look like a man that would kill himself. I don't think sun's father trusted Jin to carry out the terrible job, so some other guys could have finished what Jin was supposed to do. that's my opinion.

Sun did it. She put the pearls in his hand. This created a juxstaposition to the comment later on the boat when the woman (name?) said "You're no murderer" but she was wrong. Sun had no problem pulling the trigger.

The key point is that she killed to save face the first time (the affair with Jae Lee) and she killed the save face the second time (betrayal of Jin vis a vis Sayeed which led to the boat being compromised by the others).

Sun has a dark side. Why didn't she immediately tell Jin she shot one of the others on the boat? She is capable of a lot more than we have been led to believe. Most people don't learn a foreign language without their spouses knowledge or cause hired help to be fired over a figurine!!! She is very selfish.

Sorry i think Sun had something to do with it. She learned how to lie fromher ad. May be how to kill too, she didn't seem too phased at using a gun to kill that woman in the boat.

just checking out what this code thing is

and what this PHP thing is

but, i'd like to say that I really like the scenario where someone said that sun pushed him while he was putting the necklace on her because she lied and said she'd go with him. this would account for the "overpowering" that she couldn't do otherwise without surprise.

again, i'm not convinced sun didn't do it. i still stand by that she did it. before this episode i would not think that, but it definitely turned the tables and there are a lot of subtle (or as i see it, in your face) "clues".

suicide. He loved Sun and would never see her again. He had lost all his life, his country, his identity, his family. He just held on to the necklace.

I'd go with suicide. I think the PTB would more likely wrap up the Jae story line. If it was murder, it would turn into another story to follow. After TPTB killed the Shannon, Boone, Libby, Walt(?) stories, why would they pick up this one?

I don't think it was suicide. He was so scared of dying when Jin attacked him and he seemed relieved that Jin was giving him a second chance. Maybe Sun's father sent a back-up or maybe it's Sun herself.
Im thinking that sun did it cause when Colleen said you wouldn't kill anyone or something, Sun kind of gave a look saying "You don't know that"or something.

but maybe it was a suicide
100%
I'd go with suicide. I think the PTB would more likely wrap up the Jae story line. If it was murder, it would turn into another story to follow. After TPTB killed the Shannon, Boone, Libby, Walt(?) stories, why would they pick up this one?
thats cause they acually killed Shannon Boone and Libby

sun did it =. she follows jin. sees what happens. coaxes jae to the railing.he again tries to give her the necklace. and just as she does with the maid, she sacrifices someone to keep a secret.

I vote suicide. I think the parallel between the Jae storyline and the ballerina is Sun lying to protect herself even though she knows others will suffer as a result. Also, in the episode when Sun meets up with Jae again to study English, wasn't there some explanation of his previous romance with the American not working out, and he had returned home? (I have to watch that again, I can't remember exactly.) He certainly seemed to be sincere about his love for Sun. I can easily see him becoming so distraught over losing Sun, his family, his home country, everything, after having already lost the life he'd dreamed about in America, that he jumped. And Sun did seem to feel something for Jae; he made her feel loved when there wasn't much left between her and Jin, and I just can't see her killing him. I also think the pearls were placed in his hand to tip us off to suicide - why would the writers have him holding the pearls when he was pushed?

I think it's a weak possibility that Paik sent a back-up, but unlikely. He seemed to want this to be a family affair, and believe that it was Jin's place to avenge the wrong done to their honor. (Note the comment he made to Sun at the funeral that it was not his place to tell Jin about the affair.)

sun did it =. she follows jin. sees what happens. coaxes jae to the railing.he again tries to give her the necklace. and just as she does with the maid, she sacrifices someone to keep a secret.


WOW! I like it! Probably the best theory I have ever seen on this site. :eek2:


Edit: I'll go as far as saying they ended up on the balcony, and he fell or she pushed. Either way works, she would have done what she did to the maid. Man, I hope this is right.

sun did it =. she follows jin. sees what happens. coaxes jae to the railing.he again tries to give her the necklace. and just as she does with the maid, she sacrifices someone to keep a secret.

I agree to a point. Sun knows Jin can't kill. She fears her father will kill Jin if he fails. Then she won't have either man. Sun follows Jin, coaxes Jae to the railing and pushes. Not to keep the secret but to save Jin. Of course, keeping the secret is a bonus. Sun is her father's daughter. Ruthless and calculating.

I vote suicide. I think the parallel between the Jae storyline and the ballerina is Sun lying to protect herself even though she knows others will suffer as a result.


what's the parallel? what is she lying about that will protect her? just the fact that she's having an affair?

I thought it a suicide at first, and that Jin put 2 and 2 together when seeing the pearl necklace in Jae's hand. But I buy murder, just not that Sun did it. She was scared for Jae, not wanting to kill him. Jae could've been pushed out backwards so that he landed on his back. Landing on Jin's car was probably a plot convenience of the writers'.

As was his landing right side up...so Jin (and us) could clearly see his face without having to roll him over. Or...he could have been knocked unconscious and pushed over the edge by another Piak goon. But I don't think Sun could have gotten there so quickly and have been able to sneak up into the room w/o Jin seeing her...plus, getting him out onto the balcony...It just doesn't fit....even for Lost.

Also, it seems unlikely Sun would be grieveing at the dude's funeral...if she were directly responsible for murdering him.

Also...How exactly did Jin put "2 and 2" together? He may have thought that the pearls had something to do with what Jae "stole" from Mr. Piak...but, I don't think he connected it to Jae sleeping with his wife. Just my 2.

I kinda realized that as I was thinking about it. Falling up aloud us to see his face.

sun did it =. she follows jin. sees what happens. coaxes jae to the railing.he again tries to give her the necklace. and just as she does with the maid, she sacrifices someone to keep a secret.

A decent theory. Good thinking dude. I can tell they haven't beaten you down yet. Only thing is how does a 100 lb woman throw a 160 lb man over a balcony?

e-spice

^ again, i really think people underestimate the element of surprise. his guard would totally be down and if she just lunged at him? split second sort of thing. or it could be while they were kissing

I subscribe to the murder theory, but I don't think Sun's father did it himself - probably another hired gun. Also, if Jae Lee was comitting suicide, he would not have died until after the impact. I got the impression that he was already dead when he hit the hood of Jin's car.

Also, I thought the point of the glass ballerina was to demonstrate that when Sun makes mistakes, other people pay.

A decent theory. Good thinking dude. I can tell they haven't beaten you down yet. Only thing is how does a 100 lb woman throw a 160 lb man over a balcony?

She lures him with feminine wiles and she pushes him when he's off balance. For example, as I mentioned earlier, Sun could tell Jea that she would go to America with him, ask him to get the pearls, wait for him on the balcony, get him to lean in for a kiss or to put the pearls on her, and flip him over the rail. Besides, the 160lbs man just had the snot beaten out of him, and wasn't in any condition to put up a good fight.

Paik knows all and sees all. Suicide.

I slo-mo-ed the landing. Man, that was good stunt work.

Hey everyone, I'm late to the party, I've had to fly yesterday and today. And I just watched the ep online. My 2 cents, on this matter is that Sun's father had Jae Lee killed. The reason being is that Jae Lee caused great dishonor to Sun, her father, and most of all Jin. This is something that a man of his power will not tolerate in anyway, we have seen Sun's father put hits out on people for much much less than having an affair with his daughter. Also we must remember this is not the first time that Jin did not fully follow his father-in-laws orders to hurt someone. But most of all, Jin adamantly disapproved of killing Jae Lee, so much so that he was willing to quit working for Sun's father which would have ruined his life even more than killing Jae Lee. And once Sun's father saw how much he did not want to kill Jae Lee, he knew that he would have to make sure that he was killed. Sun's father had people following her and Jin, how do you think he found out about the affair to begin with :rolleyes:??? Because he had people following both of them, he has the power to do these types of things and he must get his family honor back, with or without Jin killing Jae Lee. Jae Lee had to die to get the family honor back, and Sun's father made sure of that.

I'm going to have to cast my vote for suicide, considering the scene from "The Whole Truth" between Sun and Jae:

JAE [subtitled]: Why are we here?
SUN[ [subtitled]: Because you're teaching me English.
JAE [subtitled]: You've been practically fluent for a month now. Why are you learning English?
SUN [subtitled]: Because I'm moving to America.
JAE [subtitled]: Jin. You're going to leave him. I ran away to America for a woman because I thought I was in love. But you can't run away from your life.
The option that Jin gave to Jae would have been running away from his life, something that he had already tried to do once for love.

Or I suppose he could have taken out the pearls since Sun refused them, and been so overcome with grief that he simply fell out the window...;)

I think Sun's father either threw Sun's lover out the window personally, or had someone nearby who could do such in case Jin pussed out. I really doubt it was a suicide. Even the way he fell onto the car seemed as if he had been tossed, even though with that fall he wouldn't necessarily have maintained the same composure as when he fell. I just had a feeling it wasn't a suicide.

It was definitely murder. I could have sworn that when Jin got off the elevator to confront Jae - that there was a large 2 on the elevator frame - signifying that he was only on the second floor. It stuck with me because I was thinking why take an elevator only to the second floor? Therefore, if you're going to commit suicide, try jumping from a little higher than only the second floor. That's not going to kill anyone - especially since Jae landed face up... He was killed before he landed.

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but has anyone thought to tie in the opening seen to Jae's death? Sun is willing to let the maid take the blame for breaking the ballerina in order to preserve her own honor, so why couldn't she also have murdered Jae to keep Jin from finding out? There's alot we don't know about Sun, including the fact that she shot the Other without much hesitation.

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but has anyone thought to tie in the opening seen to Jae's death? Sun is willing to let the maid take the blame for breaking the ballerina in order to preserve her own honor, so why couldn't she also have murdered Jae to keep Jin from finding out? There's alot we don't know about Sun, including the fact that she shot the Other without much hesitation.
If she didn't want Jin finding out, it would have been more logical for her to kill Jae before Jin got to him. As for shooting the other Colleen, she shot her just as the boat's engines kicked into gear, more out of fear than any kind of malice.

Was Jae Lee murdered by some assassin that secretly followed Jin into Jae Lee's apartment building or did he commit suicide? He had the pearl necklace in his hands.

TPTB specifically do not give us enough information to make a 100% sure decision. The only clue we have is the pearl necklace, but we have no idea what really happened because nothing was shown.

Don
100%
Was Jae Lee murdered by some assassin that secretly followed Jin into Jae Lee's apartment building or did he commit suicide? He had the pearl necklace in his hands.

It doesn't fit the timeline, but what if Sun was in the room, waiting for Jae after fighting with her husband, and hid herself when Jin walked in. Would be quite a twist, wouldn't it?

Don

I agree with the people who have said that Jae looked terrified when he thought he was going to die and relieved when Jin didn't kill him. I think Jae was too afraid to have his life end right then. I also think that Jae was clever and somewhat powerful, so he could have found a way to get Sun out of the country with him. He loved her so much that he might have though "I have to protect her and get her away from this man." I agree with the theory that Sun pushed him. Snuck right up on him and pushed him out the window. Men are top-heavy--they go over easy (not that I'd know). :)

Definately murder. Sun's dad knew jin wouldn't follow through so he sent another henchman to finish the job. I agree Sun is more selfish and malicious than she appears but she didn't go there and push Jae Lee. She was mourning at his funeral. What does puzzle me is that I always assumed Sun was planning on ditching Jin at the Sydney airport to run away with Jae Lee to America but since he was already dead who was helping her try to get away from Jin? I think she assumes Jin killed Jae Lee and that is why she was leaving him.
GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW!

Definately murder. Sun's dad knew jin wouldn't follow through so he sent another henchman to finish the job. I agree Sun is more selfish and malicious than she appears but she didn't go there and push Jae Lee. She was mourning at his funeral. What does puzzle me is that I always assumed Sun was planning on ditching Jin at the Sydney airport to run away with Jae Lee to America but since he was already dead who was helping her try to get away from Jin? I think she assumes Jin killed Jae Lee and that is why she was leaving him.
GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW!

I am puzzled by the same thing, dushell and also think she assumes that Jin killed Jae. She's told several people on the island that they don't know what Jin's capable of and I believe this is what she's referring to.

It was more than a 2 story fall...as Jae was staying in room 1516.

Hmmm....15...16? Sound familiar?

I think Sun did it... She was in the bathroom when Jin came in and almost killed him. Then after Jin left Sun came out and Jae wanted her to have the nacklace, but she felt bad so she pushed him.

He was young, cultured, rich, he could have gone anywhere he wanted to. What was Sun, after all? There's no real evidence that his love was so deep as for to kill himself. I say murder, someone finishing the work Jin couldn't (Sun's dad probably knew it)
...I don't know. A man who tells his lover to escape with him, no matter what, leaving everything behind doesn't sound like a man who would commit suicide.
Besides, he fell on his back. That's odd...although it depends on the height...I mean, if he was thrown...he didn't even yell or anything ?

EDITED again: I think we'll see another flashback, showing that Sun's dad had sent a backup. Dressed as an hotel's maid, heh.

suicide

legit, i think sun did it
Yes, I think Sun did it too.

I think Sun did it... She was in the bathroom when Jin came in and almost killed him. Then after Jin left Sun came out and Jae wanted her to have the nacklace, but she felt bad so she pushed him.

Im pretty much with this and the above poster.

Im certian Sun did it. It'll be a flahsback late ron in track, since theres are usually quite slow.

I think Sun did a super slick Kung Fu move on him and hurled him over the balcony herself.

e-sp

I think Sun did it... She was in the bathroom when Jin came in and almost killed him. Then after Jin left Sun came out and Jae wanted her to have the nacklace, but she felt bad so she pushed him.

Jin went to Jae Lee's place straight from home and waited outside for Jae Lee to return. He was scoping out the hotel entrance (like the little part where Jin looks at the doorman, obviously reminescing about his tour of duty there). If Sun went into the hotel, I think Jin would have noticed that. She may have come in after Jin went in, but to say that she was always in Jae Lee's bathroom is unlikely.

I'm also on the Sun did it train. Although the fact that it happened immediately after Jin left doesn't give much time. By that I mean a hit man by the father would just push him or throw him over. For such a short amount of time Sun would have to be pretty heartless just to do that. No time for arguing and fighting it seems to me. If that makes any sense.

Anything could have happened to Jin on way down.

Could of taken him 10 - 15 minutes. Enough time for Sun to enter room, meet, Jae to offer necklace. and the rest is history.

im certian Sun followed Jin.

Your probably right. Now that I think about it he was on a pretty high floor so there would have been enough time for a quick argument. Heck there might not have been an argument. Maybe she knew what her father wanted from Jin and knew that if he didn't do what he was told Jin might get killed. So to save her husband she kills her lover.

Good thread...lots of good points.

I hope we find out where Sun was during the death of him. It is somewhat unlikely though, that Jae would've landed on Jin's car...when that happened, boy did that scare the crap out of me :eek2:

interesting that the room number was 1516 and there's a big 2 next to the elevator when Jin steps out... implying it's the 2nd floor. that doesn't make sense.

Sun pushing Jae away and his falling.. (even if accidentally) .. would mean Sun chose to protect herself at all cost... OR if Sun believes that Jin killed Jae she is protecting him... OR if she believes Jae killed himself, she is hiding her relationship with him to protect herself and allowing her father to believe that Jin killed him to protect Jin. Everything is built on Lies... The whole relationship between Jin and Sun seems to be built around lies. We now know that Sun will Lie straight to your face to protect herself and possibly Jin. Sun's father had ulterior motives for allowing Jin to marry his daughter. We still don't know everything there. The doctor lied about them having children... and it may even be possible that her sole reason for "being" with Jae was that she knew that Jin wanted a child and could not father one (JIN did not know that). She may have wanted to get pregnant keeping the affair a secret and allowing Jin to believe the child was his. She may know more about her father's "business" and what Jin is now doing than she admits... They (Sun and Jin) may be lying to each other.. each believing that they are protecting the other. It's possible that the file contains information about Jae and Sun... It's possible that Jin is protecting Sun.. It's possible that Sun didn't kill Jae but believes that Jin killed him and is protecting him. Bottom line --- Sun may not have killed Jae... Or Jin may not have killed Jae.... but Sun and Jin must somehow believe that either they themselves or each other are responsible... and to protect themselves and their relationship they hide what they believe from each other...EVERYTHING IS NOT WHAT IT SEEMS... EVERYTHING IS BUILT ON LIES! sun did it =. she follows jin. sees what happens. coaxes jae to the railing.he again tries to give her the necklace. and just as she does with the maid, she sacrifices someone to keep a secret.

interesting that the room number was 1516 and there's a big 2 next to the elevator when Jin steps out... implying it's the 2nd floor. that doesn't make sense.

Jin may have been in elevator number 2. Most tall buildings have more then one elevator. Many tall buildings break up the floors so only certain elevators run to them (one will go from 1-10, and another will go from 11-20, etc.). And hotels and office buildings often number the elevators to make it easier for visitors. "Your room is on the 15th floor. Take elevator #2, its right down the hall.")

Jin may have been in elevator number 2. Most tall buildings have more then one elevator. Many tall buildings break up the floors so only certain elevators run to them (one will go from 1-10, and another will go from 11-20, etc.). And hotels and office buildings often number the elevators to make it easier for visitors. "Your room is on the 15th floor. Take elevator #2, its right down the hall.")


ooooooh. ok :) that makes SO much more sense. thanks! i've never seen them numbered like that.

My initial thought was this: of all the ways to kill oneself, why would anyone choose to jump from a building?

The necklace pretty much guarantees it's a suicide though. Unless he was dead before they threw him over, and the necklace was placed in his hand. Or he was holding the necklace when he was thrown over and held onto it because he had nothing else to hold onto.

Nah, it was definitely suicide.

Or was it?

He almost surely didn't die before he fell. I doubt he would have been able to hold on to the necklace then.

Don't forget that Jae Lee's father owned that motel. Why would Jae Lee kill himself there, most likely financially effecting his family with all the bad publicity a suicide would bring.

This thread has made me so sad :frown:, I really can't believe that people think Sun killed Jae Lee??? Sun is one small little thing, and I seriously doubt that Sun would be strong enough to throw a man off a balcony??? And even if she did try to kill him, Jae Lee would have been able to defend himself against her. But most of all, we have seen how evil and controlling Sun's father is, and how upset he was at the dishonor that took place between Sun/Jae Lee. How would he have even known about the affair, if he was not having Sun followed. Plus Jin was very much against killing Jae Lee, and Sun's father knew that he would probadly not do it. Sun's father is like an evil Korean Godfather figure, he had Jae Lee killed, and he also could have known about the necklace, because he walked in when Jae Lee was giving it to Sun. I'm leaving now, before I see anymore Sun did it posts :hide:. I just can't take it anymore. LOL.

i think sun was in the room when jin roughed jae up and when jin couldn't finish the job, and told him to leave the country...after jin left sun came out and her and jae argued and maybe he said he would expose her father, jin, and herselffor their misdeeds and she had no other choice, i think this may be why she questioned her father about him telling jin, she knew jin didn't know or he would have killed him, this would ensure her secret too. i hope i am wrong about this, but jae just didn't seem like a man about to commit sucide when jin left, he looked somewhat relieved under the circumstances, glad to be alive...
skybluelost:-)

is she a killer?


The Glass Ballerina has establish Sun as a liar, but did the episode establish sun as a killer?

We saw from the flashback , that Sun has learned how to tell "lies', since she was a little girl, when she told her father that the maid broke the Glass Ballerina. Sun as a adult learned to lie , with the precise face of innocent. She lied to her husband, her father, and to the castaways, when she led them to believe that she didn't speak English. But one thing, Sun haven't lied about is her love for Jinn. So when face with a difficult decision, we know that Sun could lie, but would she kill?

Note: Sun shot, and possibly killed Colleen, without hesitation.

Sun's father have given Jinn a tough assignment. Jinn was order to kill Jae, by Mr.Paik.
Jin tells Mr. Paik that he will deliver a message. Mr. Paik tells Jin , a message will not do. he tells him that Jae brought shame on their family, and Jin must put a end to it.

While Jin is aware of his father-in-law's illicit acts, he seems a little naive,to the fact that if he doesn't follow his father -in -law's order, it could mean losing his life. Jin seems naive about that, but Sun doesn't. Sun is aware of how malicious her father can get, when his order are not follow. So, how far would Sun go to protect Jin? When Jin left Jae's apartment building, Jin was alive. But soon after Jin got into his car, Jae's body come flying out the building's window. Did Sun kill Jae? Was Sun in Jae's apartment, when Jin confronted Jae, to deliver a message from Mr. Paik?

The Glass Ballerina is a Sun-centric episode. It's about Sun. The flashback are told from Sun's point of view. Right? so where was Sun? Where was Sun , when Jae fell to his death? In order for the episode to be told from Sun point of view, than it must be told from her through her eyes. So in order for Sun to come to the conclusion that neither her father, or jinn killed Jae, she must have been told about it, or had been present when Jae fell from the building. Since neither Jin, or Mr. Paik would likely give Sun's the detail of what happen the night of Jae 's death,( besides what might have been print up in the local newspaper ) how would Sun have come to the conclusion that her father, and Jin was both at Jae's building the night of his death? Jin didn't see Sun's father, and Sun's father assume that Jin had followed his order, and killed Jae. So since the story is told from Sun's flashback, than Sun must have been present to have a flashback of the events that happen that night. Since neither Jin, nor Mr. Paik was aware of each other that night, than the only one to place both of them at the scene, was Sun.

So could Sun had been hiding in Jae's room that night? could Sun had killed Jae, in order to save Jin?, how could Sun have a flashback, of a event that she was present for, and no one told her about?

[

Hey, Iamlost2...there's alot of this being covered over in this thread already:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=59906

But I will address one thing you brought up...

The Glass Ballerina is a Sun-centric episode. It's about Sun. The flashback are told from Sun's point of view. Right? so where was Sun? Where was Sun , when Jae fell to his death? In order for the episode to be told from Sun point of view, than it must be told from her through her eyes.

Usually when Jin & Sun eppys occur...we get flashbacks from BOTH of the characters...

For instance, when Jin first met with Mr. Piak about killing Jae...Sun was not there...only Jin was...thus...it was HIS flashback. (Where Jin threatened to quit). I have a feeling the next Rose & Bernard FB eppy will do the same thing.

Wouldn't be surprised to see that things did not occur as it seems. What will be most interesting is to later find out why Sun and Jin were on their way to LA? Did they leave Korea to get away from the lifestyle they were living..... was it related to Jae's death.......... and was Sun's father part of the reason and does he have anything to do with them ended up on the island?


...... and how much time has elapsed since Jae died? Could he somehow be the father of Sun's baby?

.... after all, Jin is shooting blanks! :o

I tried reading through to see if someone caught this but there are too many pages. I apologize if someone has already mentioned it.

Jin and Lee's confrontation only happened on the 2nd floor. Is this far enough to kill him?

I'm going with no. I think it was murder.

I still think it was suicide and see no reason not to continue believing so

I tried reading through to see if someone caught this but there are too many pages. I apologize if someone has already mentioned it.

Jin and Lee's confrontation only happened on the 2nd floor. Is this far enough to kill him?

I'm going with no. I think it was murder.

This has been discussed, the general consensus is that the room number "1516" indicates he was on the 15th floor. The elevator showing the 2nd floor is a continuity error.

I think his father could have confronted him over the shame he brought to the family and that his father would be ruined by Sun's father if he didn't do the honorable thing. However, I can also see Sun's father sending a backup to make sure Jae died one way or another.

i'm not to sure about the floor...but when you watch it again listen you can here jae falling, maybe clothes flapping, it catches jin's attention right before he hits the windshield...
skybluelost:-))

Ok. I stand corrected enough to buy the idea of a farther than 2nd story fall. But I have a hard time thinking such a huge continuity error would be left in. I mena if you watch it, it's right there. It's one of the first things you see in that shot. I would think someone would say, Hey see that big number 2?

Has there been any discussion about the significance of 1516?

besides 15 and 16 being numbers?

It seemed to be a suicide at first but I think sun's father was so bent out of shape he probably had another killer to finish if jin, who was waffleing, failed to finish him. Having a "son" do the job would exonerate the shame but to have it fail would make the shame even less tolerable.

Oh, boy...you guys just don't wanna read EVERY page on a thread? When you skip to the end and post...you miss some really good stuff...

Like the poster who said, and I completely agree with, it's possible that was Elevator 2 in the building...like Elevator 1 only goes up to the 10th floor...but Elevator 2 goes up to the 20th....and Elevator 3 takes you from the 20th to the 30th, etc. Probably NOT a continuity error. Not uncommon in tall high rises like that.

Jin was in Elevator CAR # 2...that's all...he got off on the 15th floor. But this was all covered about 8 pages back. Helps to read the whole thread peeps...but I realize this thread was merged. :)

I think that the necklace in the hand is a sign that it was suicide, although another hitman sent to finish the job if Jin didnt is feasible.
Suns father must have used his "infuence" on the police investigation because that room was pretty smashed up after Jin through Jea Lee through the latice, smashed vases, broke the table, etc. It would be obvious to the police that it was not suicide. I guess its just assumed that Suns Father influenced the investigation.

. However, I can also see Sun's father sending a backup to make sure Jae died one way or another.
I can't see Sun's father sending a backup hitman, considering if he did that, it would have been no reason for him to be there to check up on Jin.

One thing we learn from The Glass ballerina, was that Sun could kill, if she have to. Considering if she thought her , or Jin's life was directly, threaten.

....Why was Colleen so sure that Sun wasn't a murder?.. could Colleen have had some involvment in Jae 's death. Jae once mention to Sun that he was dating an American girl...could Colleen had been the one he was seeing?

Wouldn't be surprised to see that things did not occur as it seems. What will be most interesting is to later find out why Sun and Jin were on their way to LA? Did they leave Korea to get away from the lifestyle they were living..... was it related to Jae's death.......... and was Sun's father part of the reason and does he have anything to do with them ended up on the island?Jin and Sun were delivering watches for Sun's father. One to Australia and the other to LA. Of course we don't know why Mr. Paik wanted the watches delivered.

Also I don't think anyone mentioned that it might seem a little odd to the police that Jae was so beaten up. I mean he did fall from a balcony, but since he landed on his back, why would his face be so beaten up? It seems they wouldn't have reported it as a suicide, at least not right away. There would've most likely been some major investigation especially considering the fact that his father owns the hotel and has a lot of money.

I keep going back and forth on this one. :confused:

I strongly believe that the necklace is a Red Herring pointing us to suicide.

Sun was in the room all along, or showed up right after Jin left. She lured Jae Lee onto the balcony under the ruse of agreeing to run away with him. She asked him to put the pealrs on her and when he reached over to do so she "helped" him over the edge.

I still think that we will learn that ALL the Losties were responsible for a death or two before the plane crash.

She also told him that "twirling like a ballerina" was a big turn on for her. Clumsy Jae just tripped off of the balcony. C'mon.

I think Sun's father is a wicked, wicked man. And i believe he set Jin up, knowing that Jin is not a killer, he placed Jin at the crime scene and Sun's father actually threw Jae out the window , holding the pearl necklace in his hands (to make it look like JIN threw Jae out the window) This way Jin will be charged with Jae's murder because he has a motive (having an affair with Sun, his wife), he had a weapon, he can easily be placed at the crime scene (jin's fingerprints are all over Jae's hotel room). So any Jury in the world would charge Jin with the murder, put him in prison, and Sun's father will walk away and will have the satisfaction of getting his revenge at Jae for not marrying his daughter. I think Sun's father was really upset at Jae and his family.

first thing i thought was that mayber suns dad did it. maybe he followed jin to make sure he got the job done, and when he didn't, he just finished it himself.

My thoughts as well. jin was hesitant to take the job so maybe sun dad had him followed.

I think Sun's father is a wicked, wicked man. And i believe he set Jin up, knowing that Jin is not a killer, he placed Jin at the crime scene and Sun's father actually threw Jae out the window , holding the pearl necklace in his hands (to make it look like JIN threw Jae out the window) This way Jin will be charged with Jae's murder because he has a motive (having an affair with Sun, his wife), he had a weapon, he can easily be placed at the crime scene (jin's fingerprints are all over Jae's hotel room). So any Jury in the world would charge Jin with the murder, put him in prison, and Sun's father will walk away and will have the satisfaction of getting his revenge at Jae for not marrying his daughter. I think Sun's father was really upset at Jae and his family.You make a very good point. A lot of people had said that Mr. Paik never does anything himself, but in this case he may have felt it was important enough not to trust anyone else to be involved. It's also possible that Sun knows that her father did it, but of course she's going to lie about it.

The part about Mr. Paik finally calling Jin "son" also may be a cover for setting him up and to make Jin trust Mr. Paik. He may be blackmailing him now. The guy that talked to Jin in the bathroom at the airport may hav