There has to be more to Juliet's comment out the boat. She loved the fact that Ben didn't know about the boat. Then we see a little cat fight between Juliet and Colleen. Then she comments that sailing around in circles will keep them busy. There's a reason why boats sail in circles (Like Desmond did) and all three of them new the secret.

Two questions remain: Then how will Michael get out? and Does the contact with the outside world come via aircraft?

ETA: If boats go in circles, than why does Ben want it?

also notice when she said sayid found the village empty, ben said"thats what we wanted".
why would he want this?
ben deff seems like a very smart many. kinda reminds me of micheal from prisonbreak, how he has this big plan set in his head and everynow and then it goes wrong, but he fixes it.

ooh! good point. where are walt and michael? sailing around the island, OR, do the others have control of the "currents" around the island somehow through some old dharma experimental equipment, so they can let some people in and out if they want to?

did that sound totally dumb?

ETA: If boats go in circles, than why does Ben want it?

It's still the fastest way to get around the island.

ooh! good point. where are walt and michael? sailing around the island, OR, do the others have control of the "currents" around the island somehow through some old dharma experimental equipment, so they can let some people in and out if they want to?

did that sound totally dumb?


I was thinking like that before tonight but the fact that Ben, Juliet and Colleen didn't know Desmond's boat was around confused the situation. With this in mind it seems that any boat would sail in circles whether they know about the boat or not. It just seems odd that somehow Mike and Walt get out. It kind of made me think of the Truman show. Meaning that someone needs to let you out of the enclosed "set". Since Ben said he lived there all his life, maybe he's Truman.

I think he wants it because he had to give up the boat they had. Perhaps boats sail in circles because the whole compass things is screwed up

I think he wants it because he had to give up the boat they had. Perhaps boats sail in circles because the whole compass things is screwed up

That's what I was thinking, to replace the boat they let Michael and Walt leave on. Also they can never have too many boats because it really is the quickest way around the island.

Ben gave Michael a specific bearing to "reach rescue". So apparently there is a *trick* to getting around the "circles" issue ... and the trick is that particular bearing.

At least that's how it seems to me.

Ben gave Michael a specific bearing to "reach rescue". So apparently there is a *trick* to getting around the "circles" issue ... and the trick is that particular bearing.

At least that's how it seems to me.

I agree.

I also agree that Ben wants the boat because someone promised Mike a ride home while Ben was not in charge. He's such a control freak.

Ben gave Michael a specific bearing to "reach rescue". So apparently there is a *trick* to getting around the "circles" issue ... and the trick is that particular bearing. At least that's how it seems to me.

Spot On Sheebs!!

Also remember, when Desmond tried to leave the Island, he told Jack et al that there was no way to leave the Island - it just brought you back to it.

Also remember Sawyer and Michael found the same thing when their raft returned to the Island.

I agree.

I also agree that Ben wants the boat because someone promised Mike a ride home while Ben was not in charge. He's such a control freak.

Good point. Maybe that's what Ben was referring to in LTDA when he said he wasn't happy with the arrangement that was made with Michael, but a deal is a deal.

Good point. Maybe that's what Ben was referring to in LTDA when he said he wasn't happy with the arrangement that was made with Michael, but a deal is a deal. Perhaps that's also why we haven't seen miss Klugh yet this season as well?

It was just a very quick moment last night but when Ben found out that they had a sail boat, and was trying to decide how quickly to act, one of the women said, "So they sail around in circles for a while-who cares". Something to that effect almost like it is a forgone conclusion that it would be impossible to sail away from the island. Remember Desmond sailed and ended back at the island and said the direction and time he was sailing that he should have been half way to fiji but that he was obviously just doing circles around the island.

It is almost like the others or whoever they are connected to can control the currents and prohibit someone from "sailing" away. It is a little reminiscent of truman show and a fake ocean type of thing.

My take was it is part of the ongoing Island security system. Maybe it is the magnetic pull of the island, or some other system they setup to forces vessels to circle the island vs being able to leave.

Remember, Ben told Michael to follow a very specific compass coordinate to get off the island. That must be the whole in the system.

How would a magnetic pull affect a sailboat? Do they manipulate the wind and currents as well? That was a strange statement that brought me back to Desmond's lament that they're in a snow globe. That statement was tantalizing.

I posted this (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=59827)yesterday on Spoiler Theories, it got lost in the new episode flurry. Perhaps it explains how they are being "kept" on the island and how no one else can see the island

I dont know about the magnets affecting the sailboat, but they would certainly affect a compass. Perhaps as you tried to sail away from the island, the magnetic would keep changing the polar north on the compass so that as they try to sail in one direction, they are really sailing in a circle because the compass headings continually change.

I dont know alot about magnetic field lines either, but with an electromagnet forned from two plates of oposite charges, if you travel directly on the line the plates are set on, wont both sides of the magnetic field cancel each other out? Perhaps this line is the heading the others gave micheal.

Just a thought. Not my idea by the way, someone else came up with it but i think it makes for a more logical answer than the snow globe. Desmond hadnt been sailing for long so he probably relied on a compass. Perhaps a more experienced sailor (jin, mayby?) could navigate using the stars and thus also be able to navigate away.

It was just a very quick moment last night but when Ben found out that they had a sail boat, and was trying to decide how quickly to act, one of the women said, "So they sail around in circles for a while-who cares". Something to that effect almost like it is a forgone conclusion that it would be impossible to sail away from the island. Remember Desmond sailed and ended back at the island and said the direction and time he was sailing that he should have been half way to fiji but that he was obviously just doing circles around the island.

It is almost like the others or whoever they are connected to can control the currents and prohibit someone from "sailing" away. It is a little reminiscent of truman show and a fake ocean type of thing.

I see two possibilites (at least):

1) There is some force (magentism?) that keeps vessels getting too far from the Island. Basically, all they can do is go around in circles.

2) The Island/Ocean isn't "natural" in that it's an already established landmass and body of water found on current maps. It could be an artifically created landscape in the middle of nowhere (Antarctica) housed under a dome.

the magnet had exploded... no more super magnet to pull the compass... I think his main concern was that they would find their village.

the magnet had exploded... no more super magnet to pull the compass... I think his main concern was that they would find their village.

actually, we dont really know what the failsafe key did. It may or may not have destroyed the "machinary" we hear starting up. Obviously it could not have destroyed to much because
Desmond, Locke, Echo, and Charlie are all alive in the next episode.,
Even if the machinary was destroyed when the failsafe key was turned, we know that the magnetic properties of the island, at least to some extent, were geological properties. Therefore there is no "magnet" that can simply be destroyed, the entire island has had magnetic properties unique to its location long before the construction of the swan.

People are jumping the shark about the magnet exploding. How do we know?? We won't find out until next week. Also, wasn't it stated that the Swan and the button were there to control another incident from happening. I never remember anyone saying the magnetic pull is only from one place on the island, or that the swan is a magnet itself.

Secondly, I could swear the poles, engineens, railings, and many parts covered with fiberglass around them are metal. How would a magnet not effect metal??

I wonder if the magnetic properties could affect currents in such a way that the currents just circle the island?

I find it very hard to believe that a very experienced sailer like Desmond who is on a trek around the world has only a compass to go on and not a GPS. Also no sailer worth his salt would take such a trek without knowing how to navigate by the stars. Desmond (in real life) would have checked the GPS, compass, and stars. How can you not look up out at open sea? In that situation sailing at night is the preferred method since you are less likely to get fried by the sun and you have the stars to guide you. So he would not be sailing the day and sleeping at night. He would do it the other way around. So now the island can manipulate the way the stars look and stop GPS signals? Either Desmond had no business in a boat (and should be long dead at sea) or TPTB really messed up.

I find it very hard to believe that a very experienced sailer like Desmond who is on a trek around the world has only a compass to go on and not a GPS. Also no sailer worth his salt would take such a trek without knowing how to navigate by the stars. Desmond (in real life) would have checked the GPS, compass, and stars. How can you not look up out at open sea? In that situation sailing at night is the preferred method since you are less likely to get fried by the sun and you have the stars to guide you. So he would not be sailing the day and sleeping at night. He would do it the other way around. So now the island can manipulate the way the stars look and stop GPS signals? Either Desmond had no business in a boat (and should be long dead at sea) or TPTB really messed up.

You have a point there (or maybe you don't cause I know nothing of sailing). But keep this in mind.

Desmond was gone a long time and we don't exactly know what he tried to do and what he didn't.

He was also very drunk and by the empty bottles, he was drunk a lot of time he was sailing.

ETA: If boats go in circles, than why does Ben want it?
As like they said, having a boat makes them more likely to discover the others camp.

perhaps it is as simple as a compass would not navigate north because in a magnetic field a compass would not work causing you to sail in circles

There has to be more to Juliet's comment out the boat. She loved the fact that Ben didn't know about the boat. Then we see a little cat fight between Juliet and Colleen. Then she comments that sailing around in circles will keep them busy. There's a reason why boats sail in circles (Like Desmond did) and all three of them new the secret.



I also want to add, whats up with the tension between Juliette and Colleen? When Colleen walked in and saw Juliette and Ben talking close she was like whats going on. Julliette seemed a little defensive, don't you all think?

I also want to add, whats up with the tension between Juliette and Colleen? When Colleen walked in and saw Juliette and Ben talking close she was like whats going on. Julliette seemed a little defensive, don't you all think?


At first I got the feeling that Colleen was the new woman but didn't we later see Colleen with Danny?

yes we did see her with danny.....and I have to say I really thought she and Benry were an item...

I dont know about the magnets affecting the sailboat, but they would certainly affect a compass. Perhaps as you tried to sail away from the island, the magnetic would keep changing the polar north on the compass so that as they try to sail in one direction, they are really sailing in a circle because the compass headings continually change.

I dont know alot about magnetic field lines either, but with an electromagnet forned from two plates of oposite charges, if you travel directly on the line the plates are set on, wont both sides of the magnetic field cancel each other out? Perhaps this line is the heading the others gave micheal.

Just a thought. Not my idea by the way, someone else came up with it but i think it makes for a more logical answer than the snow globe. Desmond hadnt been sailing for long so he probably relied on a compass. Perhaps a more experienced sailor (jin, mayby?) could navigate using the stars and thus also be able to navigate away.

Desmond had to have been an able sailor, though, if he was going on a solo sailing race around the world. Especially sailing a larger craft like that one, too. It would have been imperative for him to have known what he was doing incredibly well.


He was also very drunk and by the empty bottles, he was drunk a lot of time he was sailing.

My impression was that once he realized that he wasn't getting anywhere, he gave up and then started getting really drunk. But I guess we can't really know that from the information that we have.

I agree, Desmond would have to be able to navigate by the stars. Its possible the others know how to get off the island and are assuming the losties don't. Ben's not sending Jack anywhere. I am still doubtful that Michael and Walt left. Hasn't this been confirmed(spoiler)?

I find it very hard to believe that a very experienced sailer like Desmond who is on a trek around the world has only a compass to go on and not a GPS. Also no sailer worth his salt would take such a trek without knowing how to navigate by the stars. Desmond (in real life) would have checked the GPS, compass, and stars. How can you not look up out at open sea? In that situation sailing at night is the preferred method since you are less likely to get fried by the sun and you have the stars to guide you. So he would not be sailing the day and sleeping at night. He would do it the other way around. So now the island can manipulate the way the stars look and stop GPS signals? Either Desmond had no business in a boat (and should be long dead at sea) or TPTB really messed up.

I've argued before about sailing by stars. I have a theory on this, but it depends on one piece of my lacking memory. Did Desmond leave on his boat during the day? I'm wondering if he didn't get out to sea during the day and position himself in such a way that when he oriented with the stars, the island was in his path.

In other words, think if he left off the east side of the island and decided to head east. At that time, magnetic north (the island) would be due west and what he thinks is east is actually north. Following the compass at day could position him on the west side of the island since his north would constantly be pointing at the island and "east" would lead him counter-clockwise around the island. If he found himself on the west side of the island when night fell and he then used the stars to go east, what would be in his path?

Of course, since the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, this would complicate the issue.

Sun wasn't rising or setting, she was hiding down below.;)

So if the area around the island is closed-off by some electromagnetic "bubble," does that mean the DHARMA Sharks and DHARMA Dolphins can't swim freely back into the outside world, either?

Secondly, I could swear the poles, engineens, railings, and many parts covered with fiberglass around them are metal. How would a magnet not effect metal??Mast and boom would either be aluminum or carbon fiber. But there would still be some cast iron and machined steel. Pullies and winches, for instance, not to mention, perhaps, the engine block of the inboard motor, though that could be aluminum, too.

I find it very hard to believe that a very experienced sailer like Desmond who is on a trek around the world has only a compass to go on and not a GPS. Also no sailer worth his salt would take such a trek without knowing how to navigate by the stars. Desmond (in real life) would have checked the GPS, compass, and stars. How can you not look up out at open sea? In that situation sailing at night is the preferred method since you are less likely to get fried by the sun and you have the stars to guide you. So he would not be sailing the day and sleeping at night. He would do it the other way around. So now the island can manipulate the way the stars look and stop GPS signals? Either Desmond had no business in a boat (and should be long dead at sea) or TPTB really messed up.Who said Desmond was an experienced sailor? He didn't even have a boat before Libby gave him one. All we know is that he got into really good shape, physically. Then he got caught in a big storm and was shipwrecked. And there's far more to celestial navigation than looking up. You have to have the proper equipment, and you have to know how to use it. So, if he had a GPS and a compass (actually, a binnacle), it's quite understandable that he wouldn't necessarily have done any celestial navigation. Then, if the GPS failed (there was a bit in The Lost Experience about a big radio tower the Hanso Foundation erected off the coast of Korea which crewed up satellite imagery), all he would have had left would have been dead-reckoning with his compass. Maybe that's why he sailed into the storm, when the normal thing to do would have been to try to sail around it. But it's fairly obvious that he was using dead-reckoning when he took off from the island. He said he sailed due west at nine knots for two and a half weeks. "Due west" sounds to me like he was relying on a compass.

By the way, all of this stuff about sailing in circles and the 325 bearing and such has been discussed extensively here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=52333), as far back as just after the end of last season.

So if the area around the island is closed-off by some electromagnetic "bubble," does that mean the DHARMA Sharks and DHARMA Dolphins can't swim freely back into the outside world, either?


Yes, I suppose so.

Ben gave Michael a specific bearing to "reach rescue". So apparently there is a *trick* to getting around the "circles" issue ... and the trick is that particular bearing.

At least that's how it seems to me.

Either that or he lied...again.

I'm not buying this whole magnetism thing. Maybe I am not understanding how magnetism works.

Seems to me that the strongest point of attraction would be closest to the source. Assuming that the Swan bunker is closest to the source I have a hard time believing that the boat has no problem leaving the beach and heading out to sea only to be sucked back a later time. Desmond sailed for quite some time before he returned to the island. Sayid also was able to navigate the boat without making mention of a strange force constantly sucking him back towards the island. The force would be strongest at the point where they left - not miles away from the island.

The 2nd point is also obvious. If the magnetic force is to blame for bringing back the boat explain to me the power required to do so. The magnetic pull isn't strong enough to pull a kitchen knife off the counter just a few feet away from the source. Yet, it can bring back a sailboat? Granted the boat has some magnetic pieces but most of the ships construction would not be impacted by a magnetic pull. If the force is really strong enough to bring back the boat then it would wreak havoc on anything that is subject to magnetism on the island.

M & W were given a petrol boat. Thats not gonna get them very far..

If that's all the others had then they may know its not got a long enough range to leave the island. A Sail boat could go on forever.