I felt so bad for Jack in that last scene - his father's classic line actually came true too late.

Yeah, talk about hitting below the belt. That kinda blew Jack away.

Somebody please remind me. What was it Christian said that in regards to?

What's really amazing is that I beleive the Others knew that Christian said that, and the question is how?

That was a great sequence, as, via my screen name, im a sox fan.
Anyone that wasnt aware, the sox were always hopeless also rans, didnt win a series since 1918.

nevermind... for anyone like me who can't remember, from wikipedia

1x16 - Outlaws: "It's fate. Some people are just supposed to suffer. That's why the Red Sox will never win the damn Series."

It's become obvious to me that the Others know these Losties intimately...I mean, they know things that Christian said? They have been keeping tabs on these Losties long before they ever boarded Flight 815.

I thought it was funny. Jack was in so much disbelief that the sox won it all he needed proof. I wonder if Jack is a Yankees fan.

R.I.P Cory Lidle

Awesome continuity there.

Also awesome that it really did happen and so they could use it the way they did.

When Benry said the thing about the Sox winning, I knew Jack would scoff and laugh and I thought to myself "so over done. enough with the Red Sox/World Series joke on Lost". But then he turned on the TV! And I heard the cheering. And I literally started hysterically screaming and laughing and clapping. It was a collision of my two biggest obcessions. And not only was it just soooooo cool. But it was sooooo well done. It was almost beautiful. The reflection of Jack looking through the glass and the Red Sox reflecting back. It was just perfect. I seriously think it was my favorite part of Lost yet!! :biggrin:

Jack looked so miserable in the whole epi. But this tape put a smile on his face, loved it!

I thought Ben specifically mentioned the Red Sox because he KNEW that would catch Jack's attention.

I'm sure you were excited, what an awesome moment for you :biggrin: My local team (Pirates) will never even sniff the postseason ever again.

that was really well planned out!

How did the others know,

a) they overheard Jack's conversation in the jungle with Saywer where he mentions his dad saying this.


b) they scanned his memories like smokey did, or they drugged him to find out

c) Christian is still alive and told them

that was really well planned out!

How did the others know,

a) they overheard Jack's conversation in the jungle with Saywer where he mentions his dad saying this.


b) they scanned his memories like smokey did, or they drugged him to find out

c) Christian is still alive and told them

I'm going with option "b" for the time being, but am completely open to the possiblity of changing my answer as new episodes trickle in. ;)

I have to claim Jack as a Yankee fan now, his bellybusting laugher after 69 days on that island proved it. Have fun RSN:) .

that was really well planned out!

How did the others know,

a) they overheard Jack's conversation in the jungle with Saywer where he mentions his dad saying this.


b) they scanned his memories like smokey did, or they drugged him to find out

c) Christian is still alive and told them


Smokey scanned jacks memories? when? how?

..thanks :)

When Benry said the thing about the Sox winning, I knew Jack would scoff and laugh and I thought to myself "so over done. enough with the Red Sox/World Series joke on Lost". But then he turned on the TV! And I heard the cheering. And I literally started hysterically screaming and laughing and clapping. It was a collision of my two biggest obcessions. And not only was it just soooooo cool. But it was sooooo well done. It was almost beautiful. The reflection of Jack looking through the glass and the Red Sox reflecting back. It was just perfect. I seriously think it was my favorite part of Lost yet!! :biggrin:

hehe yeah I just knew you would LOVE that scene, it was brilliantly done and from Jack's perspective it really did sound ridiculous especially being down 3-0 to the Yanks and winning 8 straight. If you didn't know they won that does sound crazy

Smokey scanned jacks memories? when? how?

..thanks :)

oh they never showed this in the series, it's just speculation

"It's fate. Some people are just supposed to suffer. That's why the Red Sox will never win the damn Series." Wondering if Jack will take this as a sign that he's supposed to end his suffering, by cooperating with Ben.
I thought Ben specifically mentioned the Red Sox because he KNEW that would catch Jack's attention. To play devil's advocate, that was huge news during that 60-odd day period in 2004, one of the top stories that year.

Wonder if Damon/Cuse knew this scene was gonna happen way back in Season 1, when they had Jack/James talking about the Red Sox?

Benry doesn't know about Jack's Red Sox connection. He was genuinely puzzled by Jack's laughing reaction. He was detailing how the Sox did it, to try to convince Jack. The TV clip, of course, was his prepared nail in the coffin proof. He knew Jack was going to have to believe him. He didn't know about Christian or the scene in "Outlaws," or anything else. The Others didn't have cameras EVERYWHERE on the Island, and you can gather facts for a file, but the little details aren't known.

Of course, I could be wrong. But telling a guy (whose files must've mentioned he was a sports fan) who won the World Series isn't unrealistic. It'd be JUST the kind of thing Benry would cite to convince Jack he was trustworthy.

Trustworthy. HA!

hehe yeah I just knew you would LOVE that scene, it was brilliantly done and from Jack's perspective it really did sound ridiculous especially being down 3-0 to the Yanks and winning 8 straight. If you didn't know they won that does sound crazy

Oh it totally does. When Henry was saying that I was thinking how ridiculous it sounds, but also delighting because I remember how absolutely amazing those last four games against the Yankees were. Four of the most emotional, but best days of my life. Oh I love the Sox! :wub: And Sox winning the Series + Jack and Henry = LOVE :biggrin:

And I did think it was a nice tie in with Season One. I can't wait to learn more about the Others and how they are getting all this info and why they aren't leaving!

That scene was so cool! I was grinning the whole time. :biggrin: Excellent continuance from season one.

Jack: Just something my father used to say -- went through life knowing that people hated him. Instead of taking responsibility for it, he just put it on fate. Said he was made that way.
His take on what his dad said about the Sox, later in teh episode Outlaws.
so is Jack now ready to take responsibility, and believes less in fate now than ever?

I totally forgot that Christian Shepherd said that!

I only thought it was great because I live in Boston, but it seems like great continuity now as well.

Wonder if Damon/Cuse knew this scene was gonna happen way back in Season 1, when they had Jack/James talking about the Red Sox? I'm pretty sure they would have filmed the scene before the Red Sox won. Kind of remember reading that was just a fluke, could be wrong though.. ETA - sorry STH, I think I might have read your post wrong...getting sleepy. :drowsy:

Go Sox! Best scene of the night. It really makes you feel bad for Jack seeing that the Sox losing was always an inside joke for him and his dad. My question is though is how did Ben know to play the Red Sox winning? Did he know that would affect Jack...weird.

Sox on Lost (http://humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=241&season=3)

Here are some more caps if you are interested...

The Glass Ballerina Caps (http://humpys.net/eegallery.php?season=3)

Go Sox! Best scene of the night. It really makes you feel bad for Jack seeing that the Sox losing was always an inside joke for him and his dad. My question is though is how did Ben know to play the Red Sox winning? Did he know that would affect Jack...weird.

Sox on Lost (http://humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=241&season=3)

Here are some more caps if you are interested...

The Glass Ballerina Caps (http://humpys.net/eegallery.php?season=3)

Thank you much! :smile:

Seeing Jason Varitek on Lost just totally made my night wonderful :smile:

Thank you much! :smile:

Seeing Jason Varitek on Lost just totally made my night wonderful :smile:

Tell me about it...I can remember that night like it was yesterday. Go Sox!

Did they really know that Jack would respond this way?

Also, can anyone please explain to me the meaning of Christian's comment about this

I'm pretty sure they would have filmed the scene before the Red Sox won. Kind of remember reading that was just a fluke, could be wrong though..
I believe that "Outlaws" ran during the February 2005 sweeps. With a three week film-to-edit-to-air schedule (what they had in Season 1), "Outlaws," and the Jack/James/Boston Red Sox scene would've been shot in January 2005. The Sox won the Series in November 2004. So yeah, the production timing for this was POST World Series. I remember thinking that, hey, Jack crashed on the Island prior to baseball playoffs. So it amused me to think that, from my 2005 viewpoint, what Christian and Jack thought impossible had actually happened.

The LOST honchos must've had an incredibly good time putting the Jack/Benry scene together! Nice ;) to us fans!

Benry doesn't know about Jack's Red Sox connection. He was genuinely puzzled by Jack's laughing reaction. He was detailing how the Sox did it, to try to convince Jack. The TV clip, of course, was his prepared nail in the coffin proof.

respectfully disagree here.

news stories provided from ben:

1 red sox win.... connection with christian sheppard
2 death of christopher reeve.... a quadrapalegic, jack's surgical skills allow sara to walk.
3 presidential election.... not sure of significance

i would hate to think those three things were insignificant....so little on 'lost' is.

I was posting and my browser froze, so I lost all my multiquotes. :frown:

But, Pen, thanks for thinking of me!
I agree that it could be Smokey scanning the memories, but I think in this case it is probably more likely that Ben just knows or knew Christian well enough to know Christian's line about the Sox, or the Others were monitoring Jack closely enough on the island to have heard his conversation with Sawyer.

For sure, though, the Sox win was a huge story in '04 no matter what. The picture of them celebrating graced the cover of numerous year-in-review magazines at the end of '04. It was an unbelievable story. Even if you watched it, it is still hard to believe that the Sox were done 3-0 and then one 8 in a row. It's an amazing story that still makes me excited and teary.

Theoutsider, thanks for the caps. As soon as I have a nice cropped one in hi-rez, it's my new avi. :biggrin: Man, the reflection on the glass when Jack is peering through... just gorgeous.

Kevin Millar:
"How many times can you honestly say you have a chance to shock the world?" - Kevin Millar, after beating the N.Y. Yankees in ALCS Game 7

I felt really sorry for Jack seeing the Sox finally winning and knowing that his Dad never got to see his "fated statement" proven wrong...:undecide:

I don't know...Bush, Reeve, Red Sox, those were really the biggest stories of the time. I'm not sure if Ben was saying it for some hidden reason. I think he, and TPTB, were trying to convince Jack, and us, for sure that the Others do have connection the outside world. When I was watching it felt literally like a response straight out of discussions on here

For sure, though, the Sox win was a huge story in '04 no matter what. The picture of them celebrating graced the cover of numerous year-in-review magazines at the end of '04. It was an unbelievable story. Even if you watched it, it is still hard to believe that the Sox were done 3-0 and then one 8 in a row. It's an amazing story that still makes me excited and teary.


ME TOO! Hugs to Red Sox Nation! :group:

And I love the Kevin Millar quote. I miss that Dirt Dog. :frown:

i really really enjoyed this part. soo great of the writers to bring that back. it felt wierd though to watch real life on lost, it kinda felt like in cartoons like south park when they randomly use live action shots. but i liked it non the less

Haha when we went through that part I started laughing and freaking out. My mom who has not watched the whole thing and has only seen bits and pieces while we were watching was like "what?" and I was like "that's why the Red Sox will never win the World Series!" and she totally didn't get it....

I think that's an interesting thought that possibly there was a reason behind the major headlines he was sharing. Maybe Jack is a staunch ______ (fill in a political party) and so the outcome of the election would be important to him? And maybe we'll find that out later? Or maybe some other reason yet unknown to us....

I agree that it felt sort of strange to see real life on Lost. Definitely a new experience

Count me as one who didn't like the scene :frown:, but that's cause I'm a Cardinals fan. I didn't and don't mind the Sox winning the series per se (in fact if there was one team I didn't mind losing to it was the Sox), it's more the way my team lost it. Bad memories. Here's hoping this year the Cardinals can ease some of the pain I'm feeling. I doubt it with the way they've played all season, but hell if the Red Sox can win the series anything is possible. :biggrin:

Go Cards!!!

Loved this scene. Huge Red Sox fan here. Red Sox and Lost on TV at the same time was almost too much to handle! GO SOX!

Great scene; very very powerful.

I don't know...Bush, Reeve, Red Sox, those were really the biggest stories of the time. I'm not sure if Ben was saying it for some hidden reason. I think he, and TPTB, were trying to convince Jack, and us, for sure that the Others do have connection the outside world. When I was watching it felt literally like a response straight out of discussions on here

I agree. Jack didn't think they hadn't won, nor was he shocked that they had won, because of his father's remark. He found it hard to believe for the same reasons as all other baseball fans.

I remember the great debate over the timeline surrounding the red sox win and Jack and Christians conversation by the pool. I think the scene ties up that question much as the conversation between Rose and Hurley over the washing machine.

Jacks emotions fit right in with what we have been going through with him. We saw his flashback with him not apart from him and in perspective that flashback was only some weeks ago not a year and a half ago.

Considering all hes been through, and remembering the context of his fathers comments....it would fit right into me laughing hysterically and thinking "Yep, go figure...the red sox did win, what the frick are the odds?"

Hmmm what are the odds of strange things happening?

To play devil's advocate, that was huge news during that 60-odd day period in 2004, one of the top stories that year.

Yeah, no kidding.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread yet with people speculating on what it meant that Ben mentioned Christopher Reeve's death, too. Maybe Jack is supposed to be Superman, and he died in the crash, and this is all a dream/purgatory after all?
100%

And I love the Kevin Millar quote. I miss that Dirt Dog. :frown:

I don't.

Kevin Millar, 2006:
.272/.355/.399

respectfully disagree here.

news stories provided from ben:

1 red sox win.... connection with christian sheppard
2 death of christopher reeve.... a quadrapalegic, jack's surgical skills allow sara to walk.
3 presidential election.... not sure of significance

i would hate to think those three things were insignificant....so little on 'lost' is.
The devil's advocate stepping in here..... That's a really interesting idea, especially as pointed out by MegletTX if these things are of signifigance to Jack. (which would make him Democrat if these were unbelievable things to Jack?) They seem to know Jack's past - I wonder if their knowledge is that indepth that they'd know these little nuances as well.

Yeah, no kidding.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread yet with people speculating on what it meant that Ben mentioned Christopher Reeve's death, too. Maybe Jack is supposed to be Superman, and he died in the crash, and this is all a dream/purgatory after all?
100%

Actually as I pointed out above, it's a pretty cool idea to have some meaning in it...

I dont think that Jack was laughing because he was happy, I think he was laughing at Benry trying to tell him that the Sox had won the series which he believed was a lie.

I wonder if Jack is a Yankees fan.

i'm gonna have to go ahead and say yes on that one :)
loved jacks reaction in that scene. so good.

Benry doesn't know about Jack's Red Sox connection. He was genuinely puzzled by Jack's laughing reaction. He was detailing how the Sox did it, to try to convince Jack. The TV clip, of course, was his prepared nail in the coffin proof. He knew Jack was going to have to believe him. He didn't know about Christian or the scene in "Outlaws," or anything else. The Others didn't have cameras EVERYWHERE on the Island, and you can gather facts for a file, but the little details aren't known.

Of course, I could be wrong. But telling a guy (whose files must've mentioned he was a sports fan) who won the World Series isn't unrealistic. It'd be JUST the kind of thing Benry would cite to convince Jack he was trustworthy.

Trustworthy. HA!

I have to agree with you. I don;t think Ben is much of a baseball fan ;) I think he chose the baseball clip because he thought it would be something Jack would like to see as proof that They are in contact with the out side world, since Jack is a sports/baseball fan. Plus thats more exciting to watch than GWB being reelected or Christopher Reeves dying

Being a Sox fan, that was an amazing scene! Gave me the chills.

Awesome continuity there.

Also awesome that it really did happen and so they could use it the way they did.

I think that they used it originally because it already had happenned. I think that is why they put it in in season one in the first place.

Very Clever touch indeed.


BTW: My God it Works!!!!!!

I can't believe that Ben knew about Jack and his dad's "thing" about the Red Sox--I guess it is possible. Ben is a master at manipulation--he plays with people's minds to control them. If he revealed this to Jack knowing about the great meaning it would have to Jack, he must have thought it would help him to make Jack do what he wants. I think this will backfire, however, because you could just see the fire and fight coming back into Jack's eyes when he saw that game winning end at Busch Stadium. They had defeated Jack's spirit, but showing him that film brought the life back into him.

I was actually struck by the way Benry was trying to explain how the Sox won to Jack -- it seemed to be very academic, like someone had taught him. Keep in mind Benry has never been off the island, so he isn't acquainted with things like baseball in a first-hand way like the rest of our lostaways. This may be a vulnerability of his -- also in that he volunteered to take Jack back after he cooperated, as in, Jack's cooperation means his lifelong mission there is over...

I was actually struck by the way Benry was trying to explain how the Sox won to Jack -- it seemed to be very academic, like someone had taught him. Keep in mind Benry has never been off the island, so he isn't acquainted with things like baseball in a first-hand way like the rest of our lostaways. This may be a vulnerability of his -- also in that he volunteered to take Jack back after he cooperated, as in, Jack's cooperation means his lifelong mission there is over...

I loved that! It really seemed like he was reciting a speech about something he knew nothing about. It was like he was almost proud of himself for being able to say it, and then incredibly frustrated when Jack wouldn't believe him. Oh, Benry...:rolleyes:

I thought Ben specifically mentioned the Red Sox because he KNEW that would catch Jack's attention.
I think so, especially since he only played the recording of that particular news item. He knew that it would hit a nerve.
Wondering if Jack will take this as a sign that he's supposed to end his suffering, by cooperating with Ben.Possibly. I'm sure that it was a way for him to try to gain Jack's trust or manipulate him in some way.
To play devil's advocate, that was huge news during that 60-odd day period in 2004, one of the top stories that year.Heck, it was one of the top stories since 1918 -- ok, maybe just for MA. :)

Oh it totally does. When Henry was saying that I was thinking how ridiculous it sounds, but also delighting because I remember how absolutely amazing those last four games against the Yankees were. Four of the most emotional, but best days of my life. Oh I love the Sox! :wub: And Sox winning the Series + Jack and Henry = LOVE :biggrin:Same here, which was hard to express with my friends here since I live in NYC now.ME TOO! Hugs to Red Sox Nation! :group::group:

I was actually struck by the way Benry was trying to explain how the Sox won to Jack -- it seemed to be very academic, like someone had taught him. Keep in mind Benry has never been off the island, so he isn't acquainted with things like baseball in a first-hand way like the rest of our lostaways. This may be a vulnerability of his -- also in that he volunteered to take Jack back after he cooperated, as in, Jack's cooperation means his lifelong mission there is over...Yes, it was very evident that he really didn't have a connection with major league sports like someone in the US would. I am inclined to believe that he really has spent his life on the island.

The look on Jack's face as he was watching the clip was priceless. His whole concept of destiny/fate is pretty much vindicated. For years he heard his dad chalk things up to destiny and say some people were just meant to suffer. Red Sox fans never really had to suffer, there was no curse, all it took was for them to create their own destiny, and it seems that it would have all be happening right about the time they were blowing the lid off the hatch. Pretty cool stuff.

news stories provided from ben:

1 red sox win.... connection with christian sheppard
2 death of christopher reeve.... a quadrapalegic, jack's surgical skills allow sara to walk.
3 presidential election.... not sure of significance

i would hate to think those three things were insignificant....so little on 'lost' is.

For the significance of the election, how about all the references to the Iraq war on the island ie: Sayid's backstory, Kate's father's military background, all the torture stuff that seems so relevant to headlines, etc., etc. Subtle, but then not so much...

ME TOO! Hugs to Red Sox Nation! :group:
:pile:

And I love the Kevin Millar quote. I miss that Dirt Dog. :frown:
So do I! He brought a lot of intangible advantages into the clubhouse!

Heck, it was one of the top stories since 1918 -- ok, maybe just for MA. :)
It meant a LOT to many people all around the world - it isn't "just" Red Sox nation but a global phenomenon - just like "LOST"! :biggrin:
[Are there more than the three threads on this I already posted in? :biggrin:]

DL and CC talk about the scene in the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/13/giving_themselves_an_out/). They say they always had a plan to do this--it just took 1 1/2 years to get to the payoff.

I have to claim Jack as a Yankee fan now, his bellybusting laugher after 69 days on that island proved it. Have fun RSN:) .

I don't think so. Only a true Red Sox fan can throw arround a mantra like 'That's why the the Sox will never with the Series.' as if it were manhole cover. :)

ON a serious note however, Ben's reaction at Jack's laughter is an indication that they did not know the Red Sox have a special signigicance for Jack and/or his father. It's just a major news event from that two month period. One (unlike the election or Reeve's passing) that can be easilly encompassed in a 30 sec. video clip.

It's just another in a long series of coincidences we've seen on this island.

DL and CC talk about the scene in the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/13/giving_themselves_an_out/). They say they always had a plan to do this--it just took 1 1/2 years to get to the payoff.Thanks for the link! I don't read the Globe much anymore. Good article.

DL and CC talk about the scene in the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/13/giving_themselves_an_out/). They say they always had a plan to do this--it just took 1 1/2 years to get to the payoff.

yeah it worked so well that it just had to be planned out, but it's good to hear it straight from TPTB

The look on Jack's face as he was watching the clip was priceless. His whole concept of destiny/fate is pretty much vindicated. For years he heard his dad chalk things up to destiny and say some people were just meant to suffer. Red Sox fans never really had to suffer, there was no curse, all it took was for them to create their own destiny, and it seems that it would have all be happening right about the time they were blowing the lid off the hatch. Pretty cool stuff.

Beautifully stated. There were about 12,000,000 emotions wrapped up in that moment for Jack.

I'm glad that the link to the story in today's Boston Globe has been posted. The Globe has given a lot of space to the Lost phenomenon. I loved seeing Carleton Cuse in the booth with Jerry Remy at Fenway the weekend before Lost resumed shooting in Hawaii. He loves his Sox!

that was really well planned out!

How did the others know,

a) they overheard Jack's conversation in the jungle with Saywer where he mentions his dad saying this.


b) they scanned his memories like smokey did, or they drugged him to find out

c) Christian is still alive and told them

i am going to go with c! out of all the mysteries on the island i think that jack's dad somehow someway is the key to everything. i mean come on why else would they have shown jack come across his father's coffin and open it to find NOTHING in it.

DL and CC talk about the scene in the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/13/giving_themselves_an_out/). They say they always had a plan to do this--it just took 1 1/2 years to get to the payoff.

Thanks for the link to the Globe article. It is really quite amazing how the Red Sox has been weaved into the Lost story -- even if so only indirectly, like the scene where Sawyer reveals to Jack he met his father in a bar (tied with Locke being revealed to be wheelchair bound in the Outback travel agency as my favorite Lost moments.)

But am not a Red Sox fan -- except when they are playing the Yankees. ; )

LETS GO METS!

what is interesting to me, is that how did benry know to setup the vhs-tape just for that redsox stuff? He was already awaiting for Jack not to believe.

It wasn't like he told jack "ok wait here i'll go get a tape and show you" but just immediately showed it on tv by pressing play on tape.

i too think jack's dad has something to do with everything...it would just work out so perfectly

I'm sure you were excited, what an awesome moment for you :biggrin: My local team (Pirates) will never even sniff the postseason ever again.
That's what we Red Sox fans thought. Never give up hope.

I loved that scene. It had me grinning from ear to ear. In fact, I'm grinning reading this thread.

I think the Red Sox winning was the important thing here. The election would be of interest to any American. Christopher Reeve was probably a friend of a lot of the people connected to Lost.

Simply put...I just enjoyed watching Jack get broken. The hysterical laugh about the Red Sox wasnt bad either.

I loved that whole final scene so much. Ben introducing himself, his snarky "You're not going to shake?", the whole Sawx thing. I loved how he seemed a bit offended that Jack didn't believe him about the Red Sox. I also loved the way he replied to Jack's "Home -- is that where you sent Walt and Michael?", like "Duh, of course we did, we kept our word".

I'm sure Ben had video ready to go of each thing he mentioned; he was going to go on listing things but Jack's Red Sox induced laughter cut him off.

As for the Red Sox, may they burn in hell forever and always. What? Huh? Yeah, I'm an Angels fan. What? Still bitter about 1986? Oh you bet. :mad:

:smile:

As for the Red Sox, may they burn in hell forever and always. What? Huh? Yeah, I'm an Angels fan. What? Still bitter about 1986? Oh you bet. :mad:

:smile:


It doesnt matter Jeremy Bender, I'm a Yankees fan, and i know that they wont make the wold series again until 2090!!! HAHAHAHA

I loved that scene! I felt bad for Jack though...he was so shocked! But I did think it was neat that Ben and the others knew all those things.

When Benry said the thing about the Sox winning, I knew Jack would scoff and laugh and I thought to myself "so over done. enough with the Red Sox/World Series joke on Lost". But then he turned on the TV! And I heard the cheering. And I literally started hysterically screaming and laughing and clapping. It was a collision of my two biggest obcessions. And not only was it just soooooo cool. But it was sooooo well done. It was almost beautiful. The reflection of Jack looking through the glass and the Red Sox reflecting back. It was just perfect. I seriously think it was my favorite part of Lost yet!! :biggrin:Yeah it was cool, and Ben had to know that Jack was going to not beleive that because he had the tape of that allready to go to show Jack. Things that make you go HMMMM!!

Yeah it was cool, and Ben had to know that Jack was going to not beleive that because he had the tape of that allready to go to show Jack. Things that make you go HMMMM!!

Actually, to me, Ben's reaction to Jack's disbelief implied that he had no clue about the Red Sox connection between Jack and his dad.

Actually, to me, Ben's reaction to Jack's disbelief implied that he had no clue about the Red Sox connection between Jack and his dad

Yeah, I got the sense that Ben was just reeling off American-centric news headlines during the 69 days they'd been on "our Island". I'm sure they figured he'd question the validity of them, so that's what the video equipment was for.

BTW, I think it's really cool that the "outside world exists" plot line is being explored, it really opens up some cool storyline possibilities. Of course, it totally kills a couple of my pet theories, but oh well.... :)

I apologize for being wildly OT here! But it's that time of the year, so please bear with me, dear Mods! :smile:

As for the Red Sox, may they burn in hell forever and always. What? Huh? Yeah, I'm an Angels fan. What? Still bitter about 1986? Oh you bet. :mad:

:smile:
Come on, it's just a game! ;)
:biggrin:

It doesnt matter Jeremy Bender, I'm a Yankees fan, and i know that they wont make the wold series again until 2090!!! HAHAHAHA
This probably is the first time I agree with a Yankees-fan on something relating their favorite team! But I really think you're right: The Yankees won't even reach the World Series again until 2090 - at the earliest (Hey, the other teams have to catch up a little in the postseason so things can even out the way they always tend to do in the long run. [I loved the White Sox winning last year and keep my fingers pressed for the Tigers this year! So next year it'll be the Cubs' turn! ;) ])! :biggrin:
The only difference between you and me is that I love it that way! :thumbup: :cool:

Watching Jack's reaction to the Red Sox footage made me a little teary.

Man, some times I wish I was an American and had feelings about baseball and stuff. Unfortunately, baseball does not incite any emotions one way or another in me.

Curseth this socialist prison I call home.

It's become obvious to me that the Others know these Losties intimately...I mean, they know things that Christian said? They have been keeping tabs on these Losties long before they ever boarded Flight 815.

wrong. ben is genuinely shocked/frustrated that jack so easily dismisses the idea of the sox winning in '04. had he known about christian's use of the proverb, he would have expected jack's reaction.

i loved the part when Jack started laughing when Ben told him The Red Sox won the world series(which should have never happened) but if u were on a island for that long anyone would think you made that up it not that easy to believe with that 86 year curse

I don't see what relevance the thread title has to the post, so I'll respond to the what title suggested the thread would be about.
Yes, I've got a whole new respect for Jack. Ever since the first episode, I haven't liked him as much as any of the other characters, but now it seems like he's livening up a bit. If Ben's suggestion about making him like them is what we're really going to be seeing, it could really be a boost for a character who's already gained some of my respect this season.

i loved the part when Jack started laughing when Ben told him The Red Sox won the world series(which should have never happened) but if u were on a island for that long anyone would think you made that up it not that easy to believe with that 86 year curse



hahaha. hey guys this is sam. hes cool and hes new to the Lage, so show him what were about.

I remember the great debate over the timeline surrounding the red sox win and Jack and Christians conversation by the pool. I think the scene ties up that question much as the conversation between Rose and Hurley over the washing machine.

Jacks emotions fit right in with what we have been going through with him. We saw his flashback with him not apart from him and in perspective that flashback was only some weeks ago not a year and a half ago.

Considering all hes been through, and remembering the context of his fathers comments....it would fit right into me laughing hysterically and thinking "Yep, go figure...the red sox did win, what the frick are the odds?"

Hmmm what are the odds of strange things happening? You bet. What were the odds of Jack meeting Desmond in the LA stadium and then in the hatch on Mystery Frickin Island? That was just the beginning of the crack in Jack's view of the world having a rational explanation (remember all his debates with Locke last season). I think he was struck by the irony of his father not having lived to see the curse broken. I bet Jack was not a Red Sox fan back home, as they stood for Christian's excuse of fate as a reason for his failures. But I bet he is now that they broke the curse, since Christian would have had no philosophical crutch to fall back on.

I can't believe that Ben knew about Jack and his dad's "thing" about the Red Sox--I guess it is possible. Ben is a master at manipulation--he plays with people's minds to control them. If he revealed this to Jack knowing about the great meaning it would have to Jack, he must have thought it would help him to make Jack do what he wants. I think this will backfire, however, because you could just see the fire and fight coming back into Jack's eyes when he saw that game winning end at Busch Stadium. They had defeated Jack's spirit, but showing him that film brought the life back into him.
Quite true. I really do think the Others learned about Jack's special tie to the Curse of the Bambino by listening in the woods. He said it twice with Sawyer -- in Outlaws and in Exodus, both with trees nearby where someone could be concealed. They could have heard it either with microphones (look at all the hidden cameras) or by Others stealthily watching them. That's how they could have learned so much, such as their real names that Mrs. Klugh had on the list for Michael.
Think about it, of all the news clips to have cued up to play for Jack, why the Red Sox? Because they knew it would be a heavy emotional trigger. But I agree Benry miscalculated Jack's reaction to it. Instead of further defeat, it brought the fight back into him. Go Jack.
I loved that whole final scene so much. Ben introducing himself, his snarky "You're not going to shake?", the whole Sawx thing. I loved how he seemed a bit offended that Jack didn't believe him about the Red Sox. I also loved the way he replied to Jack's "Home -- is that where you sent Walt and Michael?", like "Duh, of course we did, we kept our word".

I'm sure Ben had video ready to go of each thing he mentioned; he was going to go on listing things but Jack's Red Sox induced laughter cut him off.

As for the Red Sox, may they burn in hell forever and always. What? Huh? Yeah, I'm an Angels fan. What? Still bitter about 1986? Oh you bet. :mad:

:smile: But how could Benry communicate which tape to cue up? That's a bit complicated.
Now I'm still bitter about 1986, but I was a Red Sox fan. So we all get to be bitter about that one.

Count me as one who didn't like the scene :frown:, but that's cause I'm a Cardinals fan. I didn't and don't mind the Sox winning the series per se (in fact if there was one team I didn't mind losing to it was the Sox), it's more the way my team lost it. Bad memories. Here's hoping this year the Cardinals can ease some of the pain I'm feeling. I doubt it with the way they've played all season, but hell if the Red Sox can win the series anything is possible. :biggrin:

Go Cards!!!

My pain has been eased...

WOW, I said it before, but I'll say it again, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!

2006 CARDINALS - WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!!! :) :) :)

2006 CARDINALS - WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!!! :) :) :)
Congratulations! :smile: