This post is just in general regard to what this show has become and is becoming. I have been on this island since September of 2004. I watched as the Pilot aired, in awe of what is the greatest pilot ever made. I bought season 1 day and date. I bought season 2 day and date. I love this show, period.

Now, whats my problem with this show? I am a writer/director and I'm not sure if that helps but it definetely make me look at this show from a writers POV. And last season I guessed long before things came out or began becoming clear what would happen. And after the finale i guessed what would happen this season. Thus far I'm right.

Enough about me. Back to the show. Season One is where we all fell in love. Where chaos and randomness was King. There was no pre-emptive "this is what this season is about", it was just madness. And I refuse to accept the fact that its because we were learning with the characters and everything and everyone was new. That is just not the case in most claims. The second season came with a great opener and never left that eps. That was the problem, the second season fell into this, "i'm all about dharma and not about the randomness of the island" and that is where I think most of us began loosing that feeling of being hooked. It became more of a cat and mouse game. The writers began putting things in just to get people talking, things that will never be answered. It was all for the moment and not for the bigger picture. And I feel this season will only get worse. We wont have tid bits here and there. It'll be like JJ and Damon are say, all about action-adventure and the others. Yay. A entire 23-24 eps all about one thing. Great! Next season 23-24 eps about the polar bear and the monster! Yay! That won't be annoying or seam like filler at all. And maybe in 10-15 seasons they will get around to what the show was. I love the slow reveal i'm not hurting for answers. I'm just tired of what seem to be Rants and always answering questions with questions. No solid answers, just answering with more questions. And not sure about all of you bout I wont stay for more than 4 maybe 5 seasons before I think that they have taken it way to far in stretching things out.

Now, this season, the big "killer" twist that Damon said will make people love this show or jump shark will based on what the offer to jack was tonight probably be Jack leaving the island and thus the show for a long long time. That'd make a lot of people "jump shark". I would be one of them, removing the main character for, most likely a pointless and plotless reason only to bring him back at the end/beginning of season 4 in some silly heroic way. Great! I'm also sure that Juilet is actually a doctor and will help our losties is any injuries would occur, and how lucky are they to have a doctor after jack left. Great coincidence.

Just saying that I wish this show would be fun again. I wish the writers would realize that instead of subplots of an entire story arc, which is what lost is, we would rather them get back to the actual story arc. I don't need a little rant here about how dharma did this and we are all super interested yet never actually explore the hatch b.s. I want them to get back to hooking me every week and having me hanging by a thread in excitement like the first season. There is no way any of you can legitimently say that last season was like the first. Where every weak you just thought about lost and how crazy this and that was and how this means that. And all that long before dharma came in to throw all of us off.

I hope I am wrong and this season gets back onto the path this show started on. I also hope Jack doesnt leave the island. But what hurts this show the most for me is that if that does happen, there are plenty of other amazing shows that are around, like Battlestar Galatica, 24, Heroes just to name a few.

What you think?

I agree that the show has to get back on track. I fear that it is going to be canceled by the end of this season.

True, there are other fine shows. But Lost (Season One and Two) was the very best show that was ever on TV and I don't want it to end!

I'm giving them one more episode and then I'm out of here for good. The Glass Ballerina was the nail in the coffin for me.

Well, a post like this is obviously going to be controversial, so I hope you don't mind some rebuttals.

First of all, it seems to me like your argument is all over the place and contradictory in parts. You say that you liked "chaos and randomness" in the first season. Then you claim to be upset that many season two episodes were just "for the moment and not the bigger picture." This seems contradictory to me. It also seems contradictory to say that you "love the slow reveal" and are not "hurting for answers," but then claim to be tired of the writers always "answering questions with more questions." I hope you can clarify these statements.

As for your predictions about Jack and Juliet, you may be right, you may not be. But for most of the Losties I know, that kind of speculation is what makes the show fun. It's what fuels dozens of message boards and podcast after podcast. Lost is a water cooler show. So if you think you've got your finger on the pulse-- well, maybe you do and maybe you don't. But most people tend to find that to be part of the fun.

Lastly, I would just like to point out that no show can stay mysterious forever. There's no way that an audience would tolerate endless random elements being introduced without some kind of connections being made. People have already been very vocal about the need for answers; in fact, many seem to think they are being provided TOO slowly. I guess the lesson is that old Abe adage-- you can't please all of the people all of the time...

The show is what it is. Whatever episode comes out, there are going to be people that love it and people turned off by it. Last week's premiere was a good example; while about 44% in the poll felt it was one of the best episodes of the series, and others thought is was at least good, there were a lot of complaints from a vocal minority about it. But I think it's a mistake to think it got "off track" at any point. The writers have a vision and a direction for the show, and the problem is that it doesn't always fit the individual viewer's vision. They do what they can to keep as many viewers on board as possible, but they can't please everybody.

True, they cannot please everybody. But based on what I am hearing, they may not be pleasing enough people to keep the show alive for Season Four.

Exactly what is the vision? What is the direction? Have they purposely turned the show into a soap opera? Why is that a wise move?

Romance is BORING and not the reason Lost was so successful in Seasons One and Two. Romance was a very small part of the show. This season, romance has taken over. The back stories were about Jack's failed marriage and Sun's extra-marital activites. Who Kate ends up seems to be one of the biggest questions we face.

Season Two left us with storylines that should have opened Season Three with big adventure and lots of action. The one chance at huge action - Sayid's "plan" - was foiled. Our noble, all-knowing, invincible former Republican Guard has been reduced to making a plan that is so silly it is embarrassing.

I loved Lost in Seasons One and Two. I totally get it - the mysteries, the questions, the uncertainty. But these first two shows of the third season are not that at all. Lost has become mostly soap opera crap. Even the action was crap like when soap operas try to deliver action.

And oh yeah... we are getting two completely unlikable characters - Juliet and Ben - shoved down our throats.

uhhhhhhhhhh Ok Wastedmind.

I still don't get your point of this post.

However I would like to say, LOST is doing quite well in the ratings. I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

I also like the addition of the new characters. I think the Producers have done a helluva job casting. That goes from now, all the way back to the series pilot. Also I would like to say, Jack is not the end all be all of this show. If he stays, fine. If he goes, I'll completely understand. I'm sure the writers have something in mind. I think lost will continue to roll its course.

One other thing, As a Writer/Producer I think you'll understand this. If you're that upset. Upset enough to write that original monster post. You might want to move on and find you something else. Maybe one of those quick 30 minute sitcoms.

Lost entertains me for a hour, every week. That's all I ask of it. Entertain me. Give me something to think about until next Wednesday at 9. It does that and more.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The show is starting to get into trouble because they've lost sight of what made it popular to begin with.

But honestly...you're a writer? You spelled "legitimately," "definitely," "seem," and "weak" incorrectly, used "to" instead of "too," forgot apostrophes in a couple of places they were needed, and used several run-on sentences ("I love the slow reveal i'm not hurting for answers"). I guess you mean Scriptwriter.

I
But honestly...you're a writer? You spelled "legitimately," "definitely," "seem," and "weak" incorrectly, used "to" instead of "too," forgot apostrophes in a couple of places they were needed, and used several run-on sentences ("I love the slow reveal i'm not hurting for answers"). I guess you mean Scriptwriter.

I started to put,.. "Spellcheck Dude" in my post. By then I thought better of it.

:smoke:

Sorry to see you go. Don't let the Hatch door hit you on the way out. There will be plenty of room on the bandwagon when you want to jump back on. And here's hoping you can write or direct something that is better. If so, you can count on me to watch it...

Its just my opinion, but alot of shows/books/movie series have this "slow season" syndrome. A season that isnt as exciting, more of plot and character development. I have faith that the writers will redeem themselves either later in the season or next season, because yeah, they do need to pick it up, I haven't been as impressed with the first 2 episodes as I was with both of the first 2 seasons....

Just an idea guys. Personally, I write too, and my spelling is horrendous. I assume it's due to the fact that I rely healily upon spellcheck, which I don't use until I am done with my work. I type quickly, without regard to spelling, which results in my lack of spelling acumen. However, I assue you, I am no dummy.

Let's rise above this. I think we all know spelling is not, necessarily, a cue into somebody's I.Q. Unless, you're all elementary school teachers,...lol.

Let's look at the content of the post,....like grown ups do. :)

Just an idea guys. Personally, I write too, and my spelling is horrendous. I assume it's due to the fact that I rely healily upon spellcheck, which I don't use until I am done with my work. I type quickly, without regard to spelling, which results in my lack of spelling acumen. However, I assue you, I am no dummy.

Let's rise above this. I think we all know spelling is not, necessarily, a cue into somebody's I.Q. Unless, you're all elementary school teachers,...lol.

Let's look at the content of the post,....like grown ups do. :)

Wanting to defend someone is one thing, ending it with a line like this that is likely to be perceived as baiting is another, especially when you have not even added to the topic at hand. Let's not let this thread turn in the wrong direction, since the topic does tend to start some heated discussions.

The show is moving along as the writers intend it to. We may feel we are not getting answers quickly enough, but I for one am nowhere near ready to give up on Lost. I am in it for the whole ride, good bad or indifferent. No the show is not like it was the first season, but it was also something completely new at the time, and the internet was ablaze with chatter and speculation. The fact that there was such great mystery surrounding everything on the show is what got us all hooked! Now we wait, sometimes impatiently, for answers. Its frustrating, but at the same time could be necessary to get from point A to point B. Maybe explaining little things would give away the big things too quickly, and that is why the writers refrain from giving us much in the way of answers. The flashbacks? Call me crazy, but I still think they are an integral part of the show, and will prove to be more and more as time goes on. The most amazing thing to me is, there are many people who talk about not watching Lost anymore, and choose to verbalize this (per se) on the Lost chat boards!! I don't know about the rest of you, but I have given up on TV shows before, and I simply stopped tuning in. Why go to a board to say you arent watching anymore? Could it be that this board is supported by the writers, and people are hoping that they see these posts and decide to go in a different direction? Maybe, but those of you who are writers, if a small percentage of people complained about what you were turning out, would you change your entire plan to satisfy them? Would you be concerned about that percentage not watching or reading, when the largest part of this group is still on board? The writers have a plan, they are going to get there, eventually. In the meantime, let's just sit back and enjoy the ride for what its worth, a television show that inevitably is not supposed to do anything but entertain us. If you are not entertained..... well that poses another question entirely.

Sometimes I just don't understand. So far I've been very happy with the season, all two episodes. I just don't understand why people are so unhappy with the show right now. I feel like they are answering tons of questions, I'm happy with finding out about the others, I'm happy with the writing and the direction the show is going in. I guess the old saying is true, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Anyway, I still think Lost is the best thing on TV and I still love it. Sorry if everyone doesn't feel the same way, but I doubt the show will be cancelled this season.

I'm giving them one more episode and then I'm out of here for good. The Glass Ballerina was the nail in the coffin for me.

One more episode and then you're out of here? Based on your join date and # of posts, I'd say you just arrived! ;)

Regardless, I would like to know why "The Glass Ballerina" was the nail in the coffin for you. Honestly, I'm curious. I guess because I can't say I have any complaints about the first two episodes of Season 3. My favourite scenes so far have been the opening scene of "A Tale of Two Cities" and the closing scene of "The Glass Ballerina".

I apologize for taking the "low road" in my post.

I do not want any ideas to be dissed due to misspellings. I think people need to be encouraged to post, regardless of spelling issues, not discouraged.

Sorry you took it as inflamatory. It was not intended as such.

Yes, being a writer, I tend not to spellcheck til i finish and that is double when it's late which it was. So, sorry. But again, it's what I was saying in the post which obviously you didn't absorb you just saw the errors which I apologize for. The greatest writers aren't always the spelling bee winners.

I love the slow reveal, yes that is correct. I like the randomness and what I was saying is they were getting themselves in what seemed to be rants about things that came to be, well nothing. I like the first season and how you really didn't know what was going to actually happen on this island and one eps you might have a monster chasing you into a tree. The next you might have boar hunting. But since last season they just have gotten into the "lets see how long we can stretch things" phase. So the chaotic-ness of the first season was lost IMO for the most part in the second. They used more music to build up moments that were more than lackluster. And by all for the moment I meant it was a very Episodic and they were more of a CSI like show where the story arc rarely carried over to the larger scheme of things. It felt like it was hurting to get people talking most of the time. This does not include the first 3 and the last 3 of the season but the "core".

Secondly, I can be tired of having EVERY single thing in this show answered with another question. I'm not saying tell me everything or much. Just ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION without another QUESTION. Just when you think they are going to give you some form of clue or answer they give you another QUESTION and I'm sure i'm not the only one who is annoyed by this. I enjoy the slow reveal but it's not even that anymore, it's how long can we string things along without actually answering things. Because honestly how many people will stay here if this show goes for 5-8 season, which if it's a hit, it's a hit, waiting for answers from season 1 to still be answered? Answer: Not many.

And being a writer, which I am and they are.. I can have an IDEA for a show and when I sit down to write about it, and moreso talk it over with other creative minds that idea gets warped. Which I imagine most people on here don't take into account. Most writers, rarely sit down and write out every single event and mini-arc that will happen, especially in a potentially limitless TV show. Taking that into account, and alot of interviews, you much realize that sooo much can change at a moments notice in writing a show and even more in directing. Challanges come up and putting creative heads changes the original mold of things. So, I'm not saying write to my vision of the show, because if they did that they wouldn't always be building up action scenarios that NEVER and probably will NEVER play out. I'm saying that I think they are loosing track of what the show was and it was a dark, gritty, no holds barred anything can happen on this island full of mysteries show.

Oh and the "i love the slow reveal and im hurting for answers bit" was just a bad sentence that I was probably thinking out loud and like i stated, don't re-read things til its all said and done. But I love slow reveals it's part of the fun I get it. But I am feeling flustered by never getting a SINGLE answer.

Hope that clarifies things. Oh, and this is a forum not a spelling contest. Sorry.

Oh, and ratings while not low, are slipping if you haven't checked the recent neilson ratings.

OK, a couple more points.

I still can't understand how anyone can say that things move slowly on this show in comparison to the average American drama. Before 24 and Lost, American television had practically given up on the idea of a serial story, except in the realm of the soap opera. But shows from the 80s like Dallas and L.A. Law had all but died out, replaced by episodic shows where the emphasis is not even on characters. I'm thinking of stuff like Law & Order. But now we have a show again with one huge story that keeps going week after week. Maybe that throws people off somehow.

But anyway, to answer your claim that no questions have been answered without other questions-- well, if we ran out questions, we would run out of show! But here are some things you may have missed:

We know where the polar bears came from.
We know where the shark came from.
We now know pretty much the entire circumstances of the crash: that Desmond caused an electromagnetic anomaly by failing to push the button, and the anomaly caused the plane to break up in the air.
We know what the purpose of the Dharma Initiative was.
We know the purpose of the hatch.
We know that the Pearl was an experimental hatch.

So far there has been a lot of ups and downs on the show, its always a rollercoaster, I remember from about s02e16 to 19 I felt direction was lost, but then it all came together again, and my patience paid off.

Im sure JJ n Co have some great ideas, but spoiler them too fast and we will soon loose interest, without the drawn out cliffhangers each episode, we would have the answers and think "was that all". We have so much unanswered, and to put this "book" down now we nag at the back of our minds until we pick it up again until we get that one illusive answer that keeps us awake till 3am.

Thinking we have answers would be slightly over confident:

We know where the polar bears came from.Maybe, but why Polar bears, the only clue - from the map in the hatch is about reclimatisamtion...still why though?
We know where the shark came from.Its a tropical area, maybe its natural habitat? Why is the logo there, on the other side does it say "made in Japan"?
We now know pretty much the entire circumstances of the crash: that Desmond caused an electromagnetic anomaly by failing to push the button, and the anomaly caused the plane to break up in the air.Not quite true, the plane was "Thousands of miles off course.." according to the pilot, so it would have been guided for ages before the crash and as we saw in S02E24, the real magnetic problems only existed for a few minutes after failing to push the button...
We know what the purpose of the Dharma Initiative was.We do? We know the public image of Dharma and Hanso, but Mittlewerk has shown there is a darker side to the experiments, the side that perhaps would require "human guinepigs", who would not volunteer for such an exersize.
We know the purpose of the hatch.Not really, why was the magnetic source harnessed, for what purpose? What caused the anomoly? Wheres the connection tunnels shown in the map? Why the "quarentine" label on the hatch? Why were the rungs cut? What was the "incident"? And what was a former CIA agent doing down there?
We know that the Pearl was an experimental hatch.So we are lead to beleive, that the inhabitents were there to watch the other hatches, but have you thought "who watches the watchers"? Why did their journals get sent into a pile in the middle of apparent nowhere for no one to read? Suppose the "watchers" were actually the ones being observed...hmmmm.

Assumption is the mother of all **** ups, there are so man questions unanswered, some never will be, but all of them can be used to fuel more plots, to thicken others up or to twist the knife in to your nights sleep.

Create one question in this series, a thousand possibilities emerge and take you back on the rolloercoaster, sit back and let it happen I say!

First off i would like to say, yes i whole heartedly agree with you in every aspect TV has came along way. And if it wasn't for shows like Lost, 24, CSI, X-files and shows of those sorts we wouldn't have a reason to turn it on. But just because someone made a show with a single story arc cool again, doesn't mean they can't run it into the ground. Case and point X-files. But I agree they've done a pretty damn good job thus far of making if nothing else the best pilot and near flawless first season.

And you said " I still can't understand how anyone can say that things move slowly on this show in comparison to the average American drama." I never said that things move slower on this show than other dramas, and in the same paragraph you mentioned and said you were talking about CSI and Law and Order which are "open and closed" cases in every episode, which aren't the same thing at all. So, you can't really compare this to an average american drama which would be CSI/Law and Order type shows, which don't have a pace. They are open and closed every episode. But you could compare it to something like 24 or battlestar galatica, which move at a steady revealing pace. And compared to those shows, this one moves at the crawl of a snail. I love this show, but realistically I along with most people won't hang around for 5-6 years waiting for answers from the first season.

Now about the things they have answered.

"We know where the polar bears came from.
We know where the shark came from.
We now know pretty much the entire circumstances of the crash: that Desmond caused an electromagnetic anomaly by failing to push the button, and the anomaly caused the plane to break up in the air.
We know what the purpose of the Dharma Initiative was.
We know the purpose of the hatch.
We know that the Pearl was an experimental hatch."

We are assuming that the bears he referred to were the polar bears, so a nod if nothing else was made via dialog. The shark again, assuming it was from the Hydra hatch. With the plane crash, these are again mainly assumptions. I am still waiting for someone to give the crash a more religious/faith spin on how/why it happened rather than just the magnet. We think we know the purpose of the Dharma Initiative, unless I missed something completely. You can put things together and force certian pieces to fit to get an answer but if we are thinking with the characters, we don't have a final verdict on the Dharma Initiative only more questions. We did in fact find out the purpose of THAT hatch was to push a button, but we didnt figure out why? Why meaning what it actually does. No one ever came out and said, if you don't push it this happens because of this. Again, assumptions with more questions. And we know the pearl hatch was used as an experiment yes. But overall those are assumptions that you can make but if we are suppose to know exactly what the characters on the island know, can't really be made until things are more clearly realized, which i'm sure they will whenever we see locke and all them and learn the finer details. But still, all but one are assumptions or opened more questions than anything else.

Either avoid the questions you posed. Or answer them with more questions. I just want closer to something. I want a final verdict on one thing. And I'd prefer it not be, "well we told you where the polar bears came from". Because then it brings the question "why are there polar bears in a tropical climate? In cages?". The slow reveal is fine and works a lot of times in movies and in main other series. But you can't do a slow reveal on everything for numerous seasons and shows. There are enough mysteries on this island for them to give up a few and keep the show interseting albeit with a lot of intrigue.

Like I said. I love this show.
100%
And, all i am really saying is it's becoming more and more likely for "A Very Lost Christmas' Special. :)

I like the ride, I do. I just want the focus back. They are loosing the intrigue in my opinion. It's feeling more like 24. But with less action. Everytime we think there is going to be some massive action sequence it gets foiled and silly. Every time. Especially wtih Sayid. For once can't one of his military plans just work? Can't I see him shoot a few of them and take 2 of them hostage? And see how crazy that gets? I got excited last year where they talked about an army, but that just fizzled out i guess. I just want to see some form of intense/intrigue like Season 1 had. Where it wasn't about ending every episode with a mini-cliffhanger which you know at the begining of the next episode will be fizzled out into some silly result. That's what I am saying. It isn't all about the answers. I figured you would bring that out the most, but my original post was about the inspiration and focus feeling well a bit lost.

And I apologize, though nobody seems to be asking for one. It wasn't my intention to flame. I wouldn't have even mentioned your spelling/grammar but you had to go and say you were a write, so I felt compelled.

I'm not sure why I am becoming dissatisfied with the show. There were a couple of points last season where I felt the same, but overall I thought season 2 was quite engaging. I actually came to enjoy the hatch scenes quite a lot. It was mysterious. Okay, so we didn't get any clues at all as to why there were hieroglyphics on the countdown clock, and nobody acted nearly curious enough about the hatch for my liking, but maybe that will come later.

I just felt myself becoming a bit bored during "Glass Ballerina." I wasn't expecting the second episode out of the gate to be about Sun and Jin. I wanted to know what happened back at the hatch! Even last season they got back to the raft scenes in the 2nd episode. It just felt like filler. I like Jin and Sun (as much as you can like a lying, cheating woman I guess), but it was so removed from what I was expecting that maybe it tainted my viewing experience. As soon as they showed her in bed with Jae, my eyes literally rolled. How cliche. Didn't they already do this with Jack and Sarah, more or less?

Once Henry showed up at the end I perked up. Now here's a character who can seem to make any scene interesting. You just are hanging on his every word, seeing what kind of curve ball he's going to throw.

Maybe I'll feel better after next week's awesome-looking episode.

if Lost had remained like it was in season 1 it wouldve been cancelled already. evolution is necessary to avoid extinction. Twin Peaks was all about the random elements and look what happened there.

i felt season 2 was straying, up until the last handful of episodes, and this new season is bang on track and very focussed.

maybe Jack will leave the island. but he has to 'change his perspective', and who knows how long that will take, probably up to the close of season 5 for all we know.

AnalogKid, there is no need to apologize. Hopefully everyone here enjoys friendly debate. And when I say something like "I honestly can't see why you think..." it truly is because I can't see it. That's why I like to communicate here, because I can learn about other people's perspectives.

Now, to Whoodoo, and regarding your rebuttals to my claims that certain things have been answered. I truly feel that we are not going to get, at any point, the extremely detailed explanations you seem to be looking for. I think you really just have to accept certain premises, such as the existence of the electromagnetic anomaly on the island, or the use of polar bears specifically for the experiment. I love to sit and theorize, but I think it's a mistake to then get angry if the writers don't come out and spell out every little detail.

Sometimes things are weird just to be weird. I mean, think about the first appearance of the polar bear and what that accomplished. It was one of only two things in the pilot episode that really convinced us that the characters wer NOT on an ordinary island. The payoff comes two years later when we learn that indeed, the island is not normal-- there are abandoned research facilities on the other side! That's all I think was meant to come from the polar bear mystery and I think it has played itself out now.

Sure, you can go on asking yourself, "why polar bears? When did they get free? How many of them are there? Why does Walt have a polar bear in his comic?" but it's sort of beating a dead horse at that point, in my opinion.

I love to sit and theorize, but I think it's a mistake to then get angry if the writers don't come out and spell out every little detail.

That's what frustrates me the most lately. The writers have come out and spelled out and answered many questions, but everyone is still looking for conspiracies, they don't want to take the answers at face value. Even when TPTB say they is no time travel, people still try to find time travel in the show. TPTB verify that the plane crashed in 2004, and people still won't believe it. TPTB say that yes, Ben is the leader of the others and people still try to come up with someone else that is the real leader of the others. It all gets very frustrating after awhile.

That's what frustrates me the most lately. The writers have come out and spelled out and answered many questions, but everyone is still looking for conspiracies, they don't want to take the answers at face value. Even when TPTB say they is no time travel, people still try to find time travel in the show. TPTB verify that the plane crashed in 2004, and people still won't believe it. TPTB say that yes, Ben is the leader of the others and people still try to come up with someone else that is the real leader of the others. It all gets very frustrating after awhile.

i agree with that. i tend to avoid the theories section because some of the threadsin there are so ridiculous. i think its obvious when theyve answered a question, plus theres so many to answer whats the point in giving contious false answers, the show would never get anywhere.

Lost seems to be getting lost.

The thing that made me like the show was the large cast and the ability to weave stories between them. Now, we seem to get limited focus on limited characters...so the show is becoming too one dimensional. And the flashbacks are getting too prominent. I wish they'd have less of them.

I have less desire to see the show this season because the story seems to be stalling.

I have to agree with Wastedmind. The 1st episode this season was interesting just because I hadn't seen it all summer and I was interested to find out what happened to Jack Kate and Sawyer.

My first impression was that the characters weren't acting like I expected them to. Jack was yelling for the others so much he lost his voice during season 2 but in the span of a day he's already acquiesing and sitting up against the wall - if it was me, and that escape attempt failed I still be trying to beat the crap out of whoever was bringing me food, and once he found out that they knew about the crash 70 days ago and they have contact with the outside world and there is no rescue party - I would go ballistic - not be in awe that he could show me some TV.

And Sun - they have been living in fear of these people for over two months, she thinks she was attacked by one of them - why didn't she shoot as soon as she saw Colleen? Why did she wait until Colleen was two feet away when she should have obviously been in fear for her life (probably one of the things the others don't know about her - Charlie's attack)?

Sayid - a susposedly military trained soldier and he leaves the only asset they have unguarded? How stupid is it to leave Sun on the boat by herself. You have a way off of the island and you don't protect that? true they thought Desmond was telling the truth about being trapped - but would you believe him? I sure as hell wouldn't and I would at least keep the damn boat in my possession to at least give it a shot.


I just get the feeling that the writers are trying to shove this change your perspective crap down our throats and they are changing the way the crash survivors are behaving and trying to put a good light on the others when it was the exact opposite for the first two seasons.

I told my brother Wednesday night during the closing credits that this show didn't have me as hooked as it used to. Now this doesn't mean that I am going to stop watching, but it does mean that I'm starting to loose a little interest in the show. Last year I was on this site looking for clues and info every Thursday, so far this season I'm just killing time during work.

Now I am reserving judgement because these two episodes could just be a mood setter and it could very easily get back to the show I knew and loved, and I could definitely get hooked again, but I do think that there is a definite shift between last season and this one, and I do agree that it seems a little more soap opra-ish.

evolving the story is different than evolving what the show actually is. Twin Peaks for example was cancelled because, honestly that show was too big for network tv. It was way too weird and it last the amount of episodes that people expected it to. It was a David Lynch tv show for godsake. But, they don't seem to be carrying on the same way they did the first season and the first few eps of the second season. They got lost in their own "coolness" I think. Which i think is in a way hard not to. Kinda like living up to expectations, you want to make the show cooler and cooler. And you just can't do it.

They say they spend times on these boards reading theories and such, which they should because most likely than not, the conclusion to this show will be lackluster. But the conclusion is not what I am watching/excited for in this show. It is the unique characters and cool mythology it originally started to build up. That's what hooked most of you. It was different. Exciting and cool. Now, like most things in pop culture, when a icon begins to degrate it's fans refuse to accept it or freak out. This happened with star wars and the prequels.

The focus has steered away from the bigger picture. I don't feel like I'm even on the same island anymore. I feel like any minute the curtain will be ripped out from underneath us and the magic will show us his slight of hand. I also can't take anymore filler. It seems 75 percent of episodes now are filler. Honestly, they could condense most of these backstories. As much as i like Jack, they could've finished his break-up story last year and not made all the craziness. They could've done the same with Jin and Sun. That is why they almost have to kill Sawyer, because as much as I love that character, he brings nothing in terms of backstory. Are we going to always have some con story/murder story that adds little if not nothing to the "real sawyer" story?

The writing as stated above is becoming less stellar, more filler and less intrigue and more predictability. Again, this show is still light years ahead of it's peers. That being said, TPTB should be ashamed of themselves for letting last season spin out of control in parts and better keep this season nailed down because the ratings resemble that of a cancelled show.
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Chuck, I couldn't agree more. The changes in characters and almost switching in their perspectives change FAR too often for me. Last season If it wasn't for looks I wouldn't of been able to keep a grip on locke and jack because they kept switching their values and what they stood for every other episode. One minute it was the destiny locke and the science jack. Then it was switched roles. Then switched back. But you are correct, after a few hours Jack breaks down and does what they say. He fights back once and is minorly successful, why give up? Doubtful that he has a plan when he is weaping willow all over the place.

As a writer, you need to have the characters grow and that is fine. It's what good storytelling invokes. But to have the characters wildly doing whatever they want regardless of what they have done in the past is really retarded. And that is why they will have Jack take the offer in the end because that is in their minds, against what everyone thinks will happen. And it will "drastically" take the show somewhere else. But taking off Jack or Locke will be the death of this show. They are the two most loved and talked about characters. Whatever they do or say you stick on their every word.

I just hope when TPTB said more action-adventure-romance, they mean we will actually see things happen this year. Like, oh, I don't know ANY of the losties plans actually work. EVER. They always come up with really cool ideas and plans and NEVER execute them. Those ideas and plans are what hooks me half the time. It is what builds things up. And they always fizzle out in the end. Just once let sayid actually go Rambo on these people.

The most amazing thing to me is, there are many people who talk about not watching Lost anymore, and choose to verbalize this (per se) on the Lost chat boards!! I don't know about the rest of you, but I have given up on TV shows before, and I simply stopped tuning in. Why go to a board to say you arent watching anymore?
Many of us have invested far more time and energy in Lost than in other television shows. (I almost never watch series television, so for me to get hooked on a series is a pretty rare commitment.) Watching Lost has never been a passive experience for me. It's meant re-watching episodes, speculating with friends and co-workers and people on the boards, looking up literary allusions, etc. etc.) If I were to quit watching Lost, it would not be a simple matter of not tuning in anymore. It would be a conscious decision to give up on something that I've put a lot of myself into for the last two years.

People are probably not going to seek out a Lost message board simply to say they're not watching anymore, but those of us who have been involved enough in the show to be taking part in message boards in the first place are certainly going to post about it if we decide to stop watching.

After the S3 opening I began to seriously question whether I will continue watching, partly because I found the spirit and quality of the episode to be so markedly different from the first two seasons and partly because I've seriously been put off by all the "season of adventure and romance" hype.

Could it be that this board is supported by the writers, and people are hoping that they see these posts and decide to go in a different direction? .
Quite the contrary. My biggest fear is that the writers have been too heavily influenced by what the fans say. I think the only hope for the series to maintain it's integrity is if the writers do have an overall plan for the show and stick to it.

partly because I've seriously been put off by all the "season of adventure and romance" hype.

everytime i heard a member of cast or crew mention that i groaned. i really didnt want any more crappy romance. apart from a short bit between Jin/Sun at the end of the last episode i havent seen anything to turn my stomach yet. im just dreading returning to the beach and being hit with Charlie and Claire:drowsy:.

i cant help thinking the Lost experience has had a detrimental effect. those wanting more mythology who took part in the experience are way ahead in knowledge to the casual viewer. i dont think theyre going to get too much more mythology for the time being and are going to be disapointed.

i cant help thinking the Lost experience has had a detrimental effect. those wanting more mythology who took part in the experience are way ahead in knowledge to the casual viewer. i dont think theyre going to get too much more mythology for the time being and are going to be disapointed. Well I didn't really take part in the experience, but I wouldn't consider myself a cassual viewer. :p Yeah, I know you didn't mean it that way.

As for the mythology...the mythology is only one part of the show. Yeah, it's a part that I enjoy, but I'm not going to go out of my way for it. I enjoy just sitting back and watching the story unfold. Maybe you are right. Maybe it is the experience that is making so many people dissatisfied right now. Are people comming off of that summer project and expecting more from the show because of it? Maybe, but it also goes with my theory that people that read spoilers are more dissatisfied than people who do not read spoilers. Might be an interesting poll idea.

And by all for the moment I meant it was a very episodic and they were more of a CSI like show where the story arc rarely carried over to the larger scheme of things.


Whaaaa? Sorry but I can't take anything you say seriously when you make this kind of statement.

Besides 24, this is the most anti-episodic show on TV. (At least for now. the success of Lost has spawned other anti-episodic shows like Prison Break, The Nine, Six Degrees, etc...)

And not sure about all of you bout I wont stay for more than 4 maybe 5 seasons before I think that they have taken it way to far in stretching things out.



OMG!! you took the words out of my mouth! The whole "stretching things out" is exactly what the problem is with the show at this point. It's a cash cow.

This little show is now in its third season, and it still hasn't learned any lessons from its past or its legion of loyal, intelligent, fans. Since its inception I've been coming to this website for insight, conversation, or just plain silliness, and found all of it. But there's one thing that bothers me, and I must now count myself as one of the former-fans of the show. There were problems with the pacing and direction of the show from about 3/4 the way through the first season. Many fans and critics picked up on it. What is this problem that just won't die or learn from itself? NO PAYOFF.

This tiring pattern should learn a lesson from Haunted Houses. Sure, they're silly, fictitious, and well, creepy, but here's why they work. You go through this awful, noisy, mysterious, disorienting experience to get to the other side. To go out the exit and look back at the shoddy exit door and the cigarette butts scattered about. To say to your friends "wow, that WAS fun." The payoff. If the haunted house didn't have the payoff and just kept leading you on a seemingly endless array of new crappy mysteries, well, it would just get boring. Which is all I have to say about Lost at this point. It's gotten boring. A 4th-grader could write a 2 page story with no end, and be told to write another two pages, building on the themes already established. No need for explanations about what the hell happened on page 2, no, nevermind that. Here's a new shocking moment to ponder. To hell with it.

What happened to the smoke? the monster? the f-ing bear? I could go on and on, and many of you have, but no, there are no answers. Just more newness to sell advertising until the ratings drop off and they write an ending that feels like a Vegas wedding. Yes, it's there, but damn, is it memorable? Sensible? Have any hint of EFFORT? This is all we have to look forward to for the rest of the run of this series. New mysteries that have no relevance, no substance. A rabbit hole, nothing more. No bottom, just a pointless freefall.

Of course every show/book/movie has plot holes, and I'm not going to begin to list them in this series, but in the season premiere this week, there's a shining example of how loose and silly the writing has gotten. The blonde is talking to Jack through the glass, and at one point asks him where he was flying from when his plane crashed. It wasn't asked in jest, like she knew the answer. It was asked at that moment to push the FLASHBACK plot with the father issues. Of course later in the episode she presents Jack with "the folder" of Jack's life. Gee lady, you think if you're frickin omnicient about the guy's whole life you might be able to find out where the hell he flew on a commercial airliner?

I'm done with this show. I'm sick of toting the line so to speak. It's turned into a parlor trick. If you stay to long, the tricks lose their charm. You've LOST your charm Lost..

First i'm surprised this post has lasted this long without a mod moving it somewhere. I have attempted to post something similar twice now only to see if get moved. Anyway, my main concern (and the one voiced by many of my friends and patients) is that our supposed heroes always lose! As someone mentioned earlier, Sayyid's trap was amateurish at best and of course the "magical" others kicked his 'arse yet again...I was SOOOO shocked....<yawn> Look, either give me something to root about or just end the show already. I don't need anymore flashbacks about Jack's failed marriage or Sun's indiscretions. I get it...they're all losers on and off the island it appears.:undecide:

And not sure about all of you bout I wont stay for more than 4 maybe 5 seasons before I think that they have taken it way to far in stretching things out.

Actually, TPTB have already said that they will only do 4 seasons of Lost. See here: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55084&highlight=Carlton+seasons+years

Re: "Wastedmind's" Post-

While he/she's post was far from eloquent or succinct (no offense), it does contain some very valid points.
I've been hooked on LOST since watching the first season on DVD, having not seen it's initial broadcast run. Having heard and read so much about the show prior, I can say that it did fully live up to the hype. So, like all of you, I was glued to my set when S2 rolled around. And it was exciting and interesting. For a while. But as the story continued without significant progress, and the mythology of the show--and the island--became more and more...and MORE convoluted, it most definately became less fun.
I respectfully submit that the writers / producers, though they MAY have had a vision for the show once---and certainly that can change and evolve--have, creatively, painted themselves into a corner.
There are, at this point, simply FAR too many questions still unanswered that I believe can be answered satisfying way. We all know what those questions--many of which still dangle from S1!--are, so there's no need to list them. (BUT I will say that the question of why the "Others" voices have that spooky, barely coherent whisper sound when the castaways hear but don't see them continues to really bug me....) And this time next week I'm sure there will be new questions. Given the narrative format of the show--most big reveals, I think, come in the flashbacks--there is just no way that they can tie up all the loose ends in 5 seasons, as "planned". (Leading to additional seasons or, the special 2-hour TV movie AFTER the series that promises "All of Your Questions Will Be Answered!"
Moreover, problems with story continuity lead me to believe that the show's creators don't necessarily have the whole thing mapped out. Ex: If Desmond knew, as we saw in his flashback, that NOT pushing the button actually makes something bad happen, why did he go along with Locke's plans? If he (Desmond) knew that the environment outside the Hatch didn't make people ill (again, flashback--Kelvin's protective suit...) why did he ask Jack how many of his people had gotten sick? And you mean to tell me that Ethan and Goodwin, even though the "Others" clearly have hightened physical abilities, could run all that way to the crash sites in so little time? Come on. I can suspend my disbelief only so far for so long.
Yes, there have been reveals these first 2 eps. of the season. Mostly in the last 5 minutes of "The Glass Balerina": "Henry's" real name; yes, they have contact with the outside world, et cetera. But, again, I just don't think this can all be concluded in a satisfying way. At which point the producers will likely say something like they "never promised every question would be answered".
But I hope they try. STOP introducing new characters, all of whom will end up getting short shriff in regards to backstory--see: Danielle, Libby, and so on. Start putting a few more of the puzzle pieces together before, well, starting a new puzzle.

Just one man's opinion. And anyway, it's only a TV show.

Thanks.

Again, for those people who didnt read through all the posts, spelling and grammer aside, it's what I was always trying to convey, i get on rants and sometimes the posts can feel like ADD while I try to hit out everything I am thinking. Sorry.

But "And Found" I couldn't agree with you more. New characters need to fall back to where they need to actually be and that is supporting the story and not taking away. I felt that was last seasons biggest problem. They brough a handful of new characters in to what? Kill almost all of them later. We could've found Ecko and Bernard somewhere else if that is all that was going to live. But they force us to like Ana Lucia, which for the most part didn't work, and then they kill her off. This season, I can tell they somewhat learned their lesson from last, but still looks to be more new characters.

I sincerely hope that the writers do start bailing themselves out of some of these plotholes and corners they are putting themselves with the fans. And in a lot of ways this show is becoming like CSI, meaning that alot of these "short plots" that our characters are getting themselves into are opened and solved in the same episode. Having a main story arc is different and yes was refreshing from episodic dramas. But this is starting to become what this show was originally anti. More filler, less answers.

Furthermore, i've read many times that JJ and Damon say at most 4-5 seasons. But i've also read and know that if a shows a hit, it's a hit. ABC will keep milking the cash cow until their isn't anything left. Thats how all series and pop culture icons work.

And being that most of the first part is show and in the can we can't do anything about what is going to happen. But hopefully the writers/producers will perk up and read what people are saying. See the ratings. Read reviews. And fix their show before it looses complete base with what it created.

My fear is: maybe they can't think of any way to feed us small bits of info on the psychic and supernatural mysteries of the island and in one of the last episodes someone will explain it all in a 5 minute monologue.

ameuse, we can only hope that we get some sweet montage + journey (the band) in last five minutes of a few episodes. I really hope that follows a very lost christmas.

First of all, thank you PhillyGirl2873 for posting that link! Knowing that the writers are taking a strong stand against letting the execs drag on the series is exactly what I wanted to know.

I have been setting myself up for disappointment since half-way through Season 2. Too many re-runs and questions that are being answered too slowly has made me skeptical. Now my faith has been restored. I think I will continue watching for the four seasons and give the writers the benefit of the doubt.

In response to some of the other comments made in this thread:

The writers began putting things in just to get people talking, things that will never be answered. It was all for the moment and not for the bigger picture.
That was my initial fear but now I'm hoping that things will be cleverly strung together for us towards the end of the story. I think one of the really fun things about Season 1 is that it felt like we were watching a mystery. We were guessing and speculating and being really captivated by the show ... but in order to make it all seem worthwhile, those burning questions need to be answered.

Now it's true that some questions have been answered, but I think to keep it interesting, the answers need to come more quickly. New questions can be introduced at the same time old questions are being answered. That would keep things fun!

Have they purposely turned the show into a soap opera?
Good question! I hope they won't focus too much on romance because it would take away from the main interest of the show. One of the best things they did (although I was traumatized by it at the time!) was killing off Shannon. There was great chemistry there but if they hadn't ended it as they did, we'd probably be sick of the two by now.

this show didn't have me as hooked as it used to. Now this doesn't mean that I am going to stop watching, but it does mean that I'm starting to loose a little interest in the show. Last year I was on this site looking for clues and info every Thursday, so far this season I'm just killing time during work.
This is exactly how I have been feeling. I'm still watching it because I love the show, but it doesn't seem as exciting as it once was. This is probably due to a lot of different factors, but as I stated earlier, my hope has been renewed knowing that the writers are on our side. They want the story to continue down its natural course as much as we all do.

I agree that the flashbacks are getting a little old, but so far the ones in season 3 have been darker, making us dislike the original cast members a little (Jack's false accusations, Sun's cheating) so I hope they're going somewhere with that.

Enough about me. Back to the show. Season One is where we all fell in love. Where chaos and randomness was King. There was no pre-emptive "this is what this season is about", it was just madness.
What you think?

There was a lot of criticism of the random clues. It was like they just through out there every cliche in the book. When the story becomes 15 twilight zone episodes smooshed into 1 season the credibility of the writers was questioned.

and what did it produce? The most insane hair brain theories TV has ever known. Just read some of them....its like half the viewers had an excuse to go mental. When I read some of theories it reminded me of some of the 911 conspiracy theories..and thats not healthy.

Its so unhealthly viewers are not even taking the facts they give us as facts anymore. It must be very frustrating for the writers to explain certain things, to lay a firmer foundation..and half the viewers question those certainties.

Writers almost never do press conferences to stop people from going off into their own little fantasies..but these gys have to. Partly because they threw out too many clues that are so disconnected they lead to this mania

I say, let them lay a firmer foundation because if a large percentage of you viewers are blowing up frame by frame stills, or analysing audio, they are not going to pay attention to the real point of each scene. Which is exactly what is still happening--as people disgregard clear facts ..right in front of their faces... for the obscure

BTW..just to defend your spelling. I have like a 140 something IQ and my kids spell better than I do. But I guess that makes my spelling IQ real low and other parts of my brain too..haha.

My fear is: maybe they can't think of any way to feed us small bits of info on the psychic and supernatural mysteries of the island and in one of the last episodes someone will explain it all in a 5 minute monologue.

Hee, hee -- Damon and Carlton joked on podcast last season that there was an eight page script under glass in the LOST writer's room where a talking monkey named Joop would reveal EVERYTHING if they and JJ died in a plane crash or something. (Joop went on to become the "mascot" of the Lost Experience online game.)
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I've been following this thread since its beginnng, fascinated by a lot of the comments. They remind me of a lot of the comments I would see at my company's message boards directed at myself. I'm basically TPTB of the publishing division where I work and the fans of our characters would be relentlessly negative towards me. They'd say I didn't know what I was doing, that I had no plan, that I was inconsistent. At a convention I had a fan tell me to my face "what you did was an insut to us." And of course they weren't aware of all the time and energy I would spend doing my best to produce work I thought would make them happy. I see the same thing with fans of LOST: Damon and Carlton are being accused of the same things, treated the same way, even while crafting the finest show on TV, a show that will be studied fifty years from now long after all these other shows that get higher ratings are long, long forgotten. I see what they're doing, what they've accomplished and I am awed by their courage to keep doing it even as they know it makes them look like they don't know what they're doing. At Comic-Con two people told Damon to his face, they were disappointed in Season 2, saying they were "not surprised" that they weren't nominated for an Emmy. I really never undestood the point of that level of negativity. Damon took it with good humor, saying he was disappointed in the shoes of the questioner, at which point the person ran away from the mic.

The writing as stated above is becoming less stellar, more filler and less intrigue and more predictability. Again, this show is still light years ahead of it's peers. That being said, TPTB should be ashamed of themselves for letting last season spin out of control in parts and better keep this season nailed down because the ratings resemble that of a cancelled show.

That's a bold statement. I know you wrote that in the heat of the moment but if Damon and Carlton should be ashamed of Season 2 then 98% of the prodcuers out there who crafted far worse shows should just feel suicidal. Or they would sell their first born child to get the ratings Lost gets even fallen from the lofty heights it once occupied. 16 Million people watched the last episode.... even if this week they fall to #2 in their slot to Criminal Minds, that's still a heck of a lot of people. And ABC is firmly aware that they make more money per capita from that shrunken audience on licensing deals and DVD sales than almost every show on TV. I mean Damon's saying he's gong to have to make a deal with ABC to let him end the show after five seasons (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1097129&postcount=1). So I don't think the show's in danger of cancelation... it's going to end after Season 5 (or 4) anyway.

The changes in characters and almost switching in their perspectives change FAR too often for me. Last season If it wasn't for looks I wouldn't of been able to keep a grip on locke and jack because they kept switching their values and what they stood for every other episode. One minute it was the destiny locke and the science jack. Then it was switched roles. Then switched back. But you are correct, after a few hours Jack breaks down and does what they say. He fights back once and is minorly successful, why give up? Doubtful that he has a plan when he is weaping willow all over the place.

As a writer, you need to have the characters grow and that is fine. It's what good storytelling invokes. But to have the characters wildly doing whatever they want regardless of what they have done in the past is really retarded. And that is why they will have Jack take the offer in the end because that is in their minds, against what everyone thinks will happen. And it will "drastically" take the show somewhere else. But taking off Jack or Locke will be the death of this show. They are the two most loved and talked about characters. Whatever they do or say you stick on their every word.

I just hope when TPTB said more action-adventure-romance, they mean we will actually see things happen this year. Like, oh, I don't know ANY of the losties plans actually work. EVER. They always come up with really cool ideas and plans and NEVER execute them. Those ideas and plans are what hooks me half the time. It is what builds things up. And they always fizzle out in the end. Just once let sayid actually go Rambo on these people.

I agree, I think the writing was inconsistent and that Jack and Locke seemed to waver between being on the offense or on the defense in regards to the Others and then Henry Gale.

But I would argue not liking the romantic elements of the show (as many in this thread have said) or being disappointed that our supposed heroes end up being more human than heroic is more a matter of taste rather than a valid criticism of the show's quality of writing.

I watch a lot of pro wrestling too and a big attraction there is people know how matches are going to end. It feels good expecting and then witnessing the good guys win (eventally). It's the kind of feeling people want in their own lives. But real life's not like that. It's full of uncertainty and bad decisions and human error, which LOST mirrors for better or worse (and I would last season there was a lot of "worse" but a lot more of "better").
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What happened to the smoke? the monster? the f-ing bear? I could go on and on, and many of you have, but no, there are no answers. Just more newness to sell advertising until the ratings drop off and they write an ending that feels like a Vegas wedding. Yes, it's there, but damn, is it memorable? Sensible? Have any hint of EFFORT? This is all we have to look forward to for the rest of the run of this series. New mysteries that have no relevance, no substance. A rabbit hole, nothing more. No bottom, just a pointless freefall.

Of course every show/book/movie has plot holes, and I'm not going to begin to list them in this series, but in the season premiere this week, there's a shining example of how loose and silly the writing has gotten. The blonde is talking to Jack through the glass, and at one point asks him where he was flying from when his plane crashed. It wasn't asked in jest, like she knew the answer. It was asked at that moment to push the FLASHBACK plot with the father issues. Of course later in the episode she presents Jack with "the folder" of Jack's life. Gee lady, you think if you're frickin omnicient about the guy's whole life you might be able to find out where the hell he flew on a commercial airliner?

I'm done with this show. I'm sick of toting the line so to speak. It's turned into a parlor trick. If you stay to long, the tricks lose their charm. You've LOST your charm Lost..

I've gotten my polar bear answer from the blast door map... I think they're cool but I really don't need an Other giving us a lecture on how they experimented on the polar bears to see how they would react to extreme climate change... it'll feel like an episode of NOVA on PBS. What I'm more excited about is how the polar bear created situations that revealed more about Sawyer's and later Michael's characters. Same goes with the smoke monster. Here's a monster that doesn't attack what doesn't fear it. What's the narrative use of it? What situations will that lead to? What will those situations reveal about our Losties? If I get that I'm not going to lose any sleep over how a writhing monster made of smoke works. I don't lose any sleep over how a warp engine works, I just care that it gets the Enterprise where it needs to go. :-)

I'm pretty sure Juliet was feigning ignorance to make Jack feel as if HE had the power. Then, after gaining his trust, by doing a 180 and revealing that she knows (or pretends to know) everything about him after all, she further disorients him and weakens his resolve -- setting him up for the further breaking down he goes through in "The Glass Ballerina." Looking at how these situations work narratively has always helped me to resolve what at first look like inconsistences or bad writing.

Very interesting points on both sides.

Just one minor example, but I think the fact that it's Season 3 and we still don't know what killed the pilot in the Pilot hints at what the show has become (and what it's becoming).

I just became slightly more distrubed when i read on Ew.com that one of the people that were in the hatch may be becoming super-hero. ... I think that is just as silly as anything we have mentioned above and unless there will be a X-men reunion on lostie island i think it's slightly a silly idea.
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I think the reason this show became so wildly popular, especially online, was of course the fan base that had the chance to "choose their own adventure". It let everyone be a writer and a kid with an endless imagination for a while. That is why you got some of the craziest theories out there. But that was part of the show, loving the mystery. And i think the writers wanted to keep that going so they kept this whole, answering questions with more questions thing. So people could always theorize and only continue to do so.

It is almost like that podcast where they talked about the script that would explain all, will literally be the last 3 eps of the show. Where every mystery is just dropped on us at once with ridiculous answers. Or where they simply say, these characters are staying on this island where there use to be experiments and the children of the dharma iniative have crafted a utopian society.

I just hope that these mysteries are indeed just that and aren't the above, lackluster answers. I'm okay with some. But I am finding it harder to believe that most answers will be answers 50/50 scifi and religious. It's becoming more undertones and less straightforwardness. Undertones are good if thats not all you are going to do.

Again, this isn't all about answers it's about the entire show. How it has become a 40 minute show where only the first 5 and last 5 mins actually matter. It has become what silly tid-bit in a backstory can we throw in to make going back to the "Real world" more difficult. It has become less intersting and less mysterious.

i'm inclined to agree that the show is stalled.
i think the plotlines have become "we'll start this direction....wait till you see where this is going!"
...
and then yet another loose, forgotten thread.
I'm about to jump ship here.

First off I have great faith in the writers of this show that they know what they're doing. Can you imagine that ABC would sign on a couple of guys who just said "hey let's start with a plane crash and just see what happens?" for four or five seasons??? I think not!! I think you have to give JJ and Co a little more credit than that! I have this inkling that they know exactly where they're going with all of this and that everything no matter how trivial, insignificant, or STUPID it seems has a definite reason and purpose. If not I shall be sorely disappointed in the end but that's my gut instinct.

Secondly with as large a plot as this is don't you think that there's going to be some lesser moments in it? I mean in a movie there are generally lesser moments that if you looked back at the movie as a whole you might say "well if we had to I suppose we could have cut those pieces out" but they really did have a place and purpose--it just wasn't as major as when we found out that the mysterious man stalking them was the guy we saw next door or whatever (that was totally made up on the spot and very not exciting!).

I would also have to say that I think it's not really fair in the overall scheme of things to be judging the entire season by TWO EPISODES. Can you really do that? I'm sure if you looked you'd find two episodes in the first or second season that weren't quite as exciting as you'd have liked or didn't go quite like you would have liked them to go. This once again goes back to the "you can't please everyone all the time".

To those who are fearful the show won't make it to next season I'd say I'd have to see a much greater drop in numbers watching to make me worried. Lost is such a big show I can't see it going anywhere unexpectedly. I mean take Hope & Faith a short little sitcom. I thought that was quite an amusing little show but obviously it didn't get enough people watching and was cancelled. But you know what? I'll bet it didn't get a FRACTION of the viewers that Lost does. No matter how much you think they're slipping you've got to remember that first off there are still TONS of people watching the show and secondly you're going to have fluctuation in numbers from season to season. It's possible we've just hit the lowest point and now we'll be on our way up from here on out. I just think it's hardly fair to use two episodes of the season as a basis for everything.

:twocents:

From Gregg Nations, at his VIP thread:
There really hasn't been any light moments lately, have there? Maybe soon... but I wouldn't count on it.
That should reassure anyone who was worried this season would be nothing but silly scenes and romance, romance, romance.

People always tell me to have faith and ABC wouldn't let a great show fizzle out. First off, the writers while sometimes clever, usually use a story or plot based off one of their many many favorite books, comics and movies/shows. They even go as far as to come out and put those books in the show. I'm thinking, 3rd policemen, the stand, the giver ect ect. Secondly, a writer/producing team can fizzle out at any moment. We've seen it happen to the greatest series, x-files, star wars ect ect. How many fans are rabid star wars fans and had faith in lucas to make fun prequels? Millions. And to an extent he delievered but most were let down and consider those prequels the worst in the series. So yes great writers can suck and fizzle out.

Now about JJ, did you watch Alias? Because if you did you would know the huge plot holes and silliness that happened to that show which started fantastic and then it started to get off track and then more off track and then it wrecked. JJ is intelligent but seems to start good projects and leave then return to finish them after they lost their fanbase.

Secondly, ABC is a money making company. They are not in it for art. There have been quotes from Damon saying that he hopes that he can end the show around a 4th or 5th season. It is always a hope. And that if the time comes and ABC won't let him he will fight for it. And most likely folks, he will loose. Companies dump writers/producers all the time. They want to keep the money flowing and will do anything to do that til the last penny and if that means JJ/Damon leave then it happens. Most people think that since Damon said he couldn't see it going longer than 4/5 seasons that it's etched in stone. But they ignored the most important part about ABC potentially not letting him do so. And in more interviews he says the same. "For once I wish it could be about art" is along the lines of what he said, then he talked about how it's not about that, which to a big company like disney it isnt. I'd be worried to if I were him.

So folks... what i am saying is this show can easily go on for more than 4/5 season and even without JJ and Damon on it. It could end badly and most likely will only satisfy a small percentage of us. These are things you have to come to terms with.

Remember, Creativity will always suffer when big money is involved.

Posted by MegletTX:
I would also have to say that I think it's not really fair in the overall scheme of things to be judging the entire season by TWO EPISODES. Can you really do that? I'm sure if you looked you'd find two episodes in the first or second season that weren't quite as exciting as you'd have liked or didn't go quite like you would have liked them to go. This once again goes back to the "you can't please everyone all the time".True, but the first two episodes of Seasons 1 & 2 were MUCH stronger than the first two of Season 3. I'll agree that every season will have a couple of rough patches, but to start off with two is rather ominous.

Posted by Wastedmind:
How it has become a 40 minute show where only the first 5 and last 5 mins actually matter.This is pretty much how I feel at this point. I love the characters and I love the show, but right now it feels like the writers are spinning their wheels. They don't want to give away too much, but they aren't filling the space between revelations with interesting action (rock breaking? Sayid's dumbass plan?) or character development (Sun has a penchant for lying? stop the presses).

Remember, Creativity will always suffer when big money is involved.

This really says it all people

Just reading the jumble of opinions here stated as facts shows you how futile it is to expect any response from the creative team. People are judging a season on two episodes, they're saying season two was great compared to those two episodes...or disastrous leaving no foundation for a new season, too much romance and action, not enough romance and action, bad character development, no character development, too many characters, too many unsolved mysteries, not enough mysteries, too light, too dark....and on and on.

This show grips people's imaginations and they seem to feel a personal ownership over it. That right there is such a unique quality it sets the show head and shoulders above others. The constant griping and whining is to be expected I guess in that kind of situation. But it becomes nearly absurd, to the point where a show that is in the top ten of all shows each and every week is said to have "failing" ratings.

I'm sorry but it's hard for me to understand what people are talking about screaming about the tragedy of this season's Lost (after TWO episodes!) and then holding up something like Heroes as an example of something better. The only way we stay awake in my house watching that junk is laughing about all the ways they're ripping off Lost!

And not that anecdotal evidence means anything, but I don't know a single fan, at home, school or work, that isn't digging this season totally and can't wait for each new installment. In fact, I think this may be the most excited most of us have ever been. So it's really important to keep one's own feelings in perspective, and not flatter oneself that they represent anything other than just that.

Yes I did watch Alias or I should say am WATCHING as I haven't finished the series yet. Personally I haven't seen these major holes you are talking about but I'm beginning to think I don't take my TV shows as seriously as some. There was one spot I thought we kind of detoured off of the main plot but when I read about it later I learned that ABC was fussing at the writers about wanting more episodic and less serial action because they were not keeping the audience going. Sound familiar? I just have to wonder, what comes first? The powers-that-be whine over the loss of a million viewers and make the writers change their style and lose TONS of viewers or is it the other way around?
Also, I just watch the show it's not an all consuming thing. I don't think JJ & Co ever meant for us to all put our lives on hold for this show in which case we needn't get so worked up over a few lousy episodes. If you seriously want to quit watching none of us are stopping you...I think it's rather silly personally to just go on tearing a show to bits if it's obvious you are through with it and don't really like it anymore. If you don't like it, show ABC you don't like it by not watching it.

DISCLAIMER: Please let no one be offended by anything I said, I did not mean it in an ugly way or belittling anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I am sharing mine, you are free to share yours and we agree to disagree. :)

Meglet, Duffy... totally agree with you. As I said in my somewhat emotional rant above, I've been on the receving end of negative comments... and I always wondered why our fans, if they were so displeased, would keep buying the work my company put out only to complain on a message board they knew I read. That really didn't accomplish anything.

But everyone has a right to be negative even if its about something they really love... just that negativity should lead to building that target of love back up instead of tearing it down. I think its great that LOST elicits such passionate responses, positive and negative... just goes to show the kind of reach and efect it can have on a such a borad audience.

I don't think JJ & Co ever meant for us to all put our lives on hold for this show
What they MEANT and what has HAPPENED are two different things, though! :wink1:

Couple of general questions:

- Do we know how far in advance they are filming before an episode airs? I just wonder if we all did stop watching when season 4 rolls around, how many episodes would they have done before noticing?

- And this is probably a really naïve question, but do they know how many people are watching? I used to think that there was a portion of the population that was monitored, but I really have no clue. Also, do the numbers only reflect American viewers?

Couple of general questions:

- Do we know how far in advance they are filming before an episode airs? I just wonder if we all did stop watching when season 4 rolls around, how many episodes would they have done before noticing?

- And this is probably a really naïve question, but do they know how many people are watching? I used to think that there was a portion of the population that was monitored, but I really have no clue. Also, do the numbers only reflect American viewers?

1a. According to what Damon said in the last Season 2 podcast, they finished filming the Season 2 Finale a week before it aired. I think they try to film as far ahead as possible (they started filming Season 3 in early July and have not stopped filming new episodes since). But if they need to they can do quick pick-ups and reshoots very close to airing.

1b. At Comic-Con, Damon stated he doesn't want the show to go beyond 5 seasons (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55084), since it was plotted out as a 5 season storyline at maximum from the very beginning. Indeed, at the same show he went on to say if ABC doesn't let him and Carlton cancel the show on their terms the fans should not watch Season 4, just buy the DVDs and force ABC to cancel it.

2. According to this report (http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/networktv/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003254265), Nielson Ratings has estimated LOST has averaged 17.8 Million viewers this season. I'm sure there are companies monitoring the ratings and estimating viewership around the world as well. (I know Lost-Media has on occasion had ratings from the UK, Ireland and Australia.)

Crimson,

As a writer myself critism is the best thing I can receive. On that note I must also add if I created a massive and unique universe/vision for 24 eps. Then in the next season alot of fan reaction began to differ and only enjoy 2/3 of the season and then at the beginning of the third a lot of people began questioning the show, I would prompt a change of pace. They have said tons of times they read these boards which is really great for them. There are soo many intelligent people on here with really thought out ideas of what is going on which in a way could let the writers create a more vast and intelligent universe. But at the same time I can love the original star wars movies and then hate the prequels. Same goes for any series really. I can love someting soo much and when an addition or second series comes out I can turn and hate it and critize it and so will most rabid fans. So, when people get on the boards it's because they remember how the show was and now look to see if there are more people just like them and to rant about it, hoping to change it.

Oh, and to the comment about above if the writers or abc would force the other to change, it'll be ABC. Remember they are the ones that suffer in the public eye. They compete weekly for ratings. It's their money and their stock. So, like many times before if a show starts doing poorly, the real TPTB will step in and take control and fix things. If that doesn't work or fix, cancellation ensues. This happened to Alias. They tried to fix it and JJ came in a little to late and made a pretty good last season but it was all a little to late. Same thing seems to be happening here. JJ wrote an amazing Pilot and directed it. Awesome. Then he was pretty much off on MI3 for a year and a half. Comes back after 40 eps., where now Carlton Cuse seems to have more clout in this show than JJ, and he writes a medicore season 3 premiere.

By the way, shooting wrapped late sept/early oct for like 2 months I believe. They started early to stop early and let people off from Oct-Dec and return in Jan to film the rest of the show. They just filmed the first 6 eps and put enough time in to do effects and reshoots. So sometime in Jan they will return to finish the season. Pretty much they will be a month to a month and a half ahead of each episode. So unlike last season where they were changing things based on fan reaction we won't see that as often especially these first 6.

Thanks for your replies, CrimsonRabbit and Wastedmind.

companies monitoring the ratings and estimating viewership
So I guess if yours is one of the homes being monitored, you'd probably know it. In which case, the rest of us can either choose to watch or not watch and it won't make a difference. :undecide:

So I guess if yours is one of the homes being monitored, you'd probably know it. In which case, the rest of us can either choose to watch or not watch and it won't make a difference. :undecide:

It's my understanding it's a scientifically produced sample, like say, election polling which is usualy accurate +/- 3%. So if you're turning the show on or off, likely someone very representative of you (and thousands like you) is doing the same thing -- or so Nielson Ratings would have us believe. I'm sure there's people who run TV shows that thing the ratings are a totally wrong way of measuring an audience, but it's the best we've got.
100%
Wastedmind, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the amount of people dissatisfied with LOST and why. If the dissatisfaction was so severe (like say along the lines of what happened to Joey or what is happening to Studio 60) then ABC would make changes and frankly I would probably go along with them. But right now, I'm just not seeing where that dissatisfaction would come from. Instead I know there's a lot of people out there also thrilled about everything: the writing, the directing, the acting, and the way the mythology of the show is unfolding on the surface and beneath it.

LOST is not doing as bad (or as good) as most of the people on these boards say. Somewhere in the middle is reality. We are the vocal minority, unlike the fifteen million others out there who have never heard of The Fuselage.com.

As you say people want to go back to the way the show was in the first season. I will say though the first season used symbols of the unknown, like the monster, the (at the time) unseen Others, the hatch and its eye-like window, to great effect. These symbols at the time could've meant anything and as such viewers projected their own beliefs onto them. A personal connection was forged. Once we started discovering what these things actually were, once they started getting less unknown and more specific, they more and more did not conform to a lot of people's beliefs. The connection was broken and so you had a lot of disillusionment in Season 2. At first I thought (then again it could still happen) that they would reintroduce a hatch-like element this season -- something very simple that could be reinterpreted in a million different ways.

I think that's where a lot of the disappointment is really coming from -- but that's just the nature of the beast. That's why origin stories are still the most popular superhero stories to tell, because they still tap into the iconic and universal instead of getting bogged down by decades of accumulated continuity and history.

And that's sort of the double-edged sword: the more answers they provide, the more people may reject them or accept them.

I think everyone following this thread should also read this transcript of a roundtable discussion (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2553741&page=1) between Jack Tapper of ABCNEWS and JJ Abrams, Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. (I think it's pretty clear from it that JJ is as big a part of the show's direction as ever.) There's probably enough in there to soothe as well as infuriate. :biggrin: They seemed very assured of their vision for the show, fan feedback or not.

I know a similar roundtable between the JJ, Damon, Carlton, Stephen King and Doc Jensen will be published shortly in Entertainment Weekly, too.

Crimson, the fact that the ratings and fan populatiry is in the middle is the problem I think. Of course you can't and won't win everyone over but they did a great job with the first season and about half the second. They did a fantastic job. But they also started doing things that made it move toward the said middle ground.

I also understand now that JJ is fully committed and knew that in the previous post, I was just pointing out that he had been MIA since the pilot. Which is fine he was busy but still don't start anything unless you plan on seeing it through til the end ya know?

By the way, good read on the ABC thing... WAAAAY LONG, but good. Wish it were video or podcast.

If you don't mind, may i ask what company you work for? Just curious. Seem to be in the same industry as me.

What they MEANT and what has HAPPENED are two different things, though! :wink1:

All I'm saying is it seems rather silly to me to say "I've invested too much time into this show to just stop watching now"....I mean maybe we need to reconsider our priorities if we're getting so involved in a TV show that we can't just stop watching it when it goes a direction we don't like?? That's just my two cents...

*SEE DISCLAIMER IN PREVIOUS POST*

All I'm saying is it seems rather silly to me to say "I've invested too much time into this show to just stop watching now"....I mean maybe we need to reconsider our priorities if we're getting so involved in a TV show that we can't just stop watching it when it goes a direction we don't like?? That's just my two cents...
Makes perfect sense, Meglet.

Sense has NOTHING to do with us uber-fans' devotion to the show, though! :D

BTW, I lived in Houston for 8 years (1977-85). Don't envy you the humidity! :wink1:

Everyone said the same thing at the beginning of season 2 about how it's so bad now with the hatch, but now everyone seems to have liked season 2.
I like the show still. It's like nothing else on television, to have over 50 episodes now and still keep we wondering could only be done with the show evolving. They can't just sit on the beach the whole time wondering what that monster is. That would be so boring.
I think it will get better, but it just needs to pick up steam and do all this set up with were Jack and them are at and what the others are.

I'd just like to add to the convo that what made The Godfather an American classic was it's use of subdlety. LOST is no different, IMO.

If things are revealed slowly, so what? It's called a hook. It's supposed to bring you back the next week wanting more. The LOST writers are total teases and that's the best thing for a series. If they answered questions left and right, what would have you scrambling to your TV every Wednesday?

WastedMind, if you were truly a writer, you would understand such things.

XBF, I said numerous times in this board if you would've read all the posts that I love a slow reveal. I'm not looking for answers every week or every other. I am looking to some conclusions in general. Almost every "answer" we get is about 60 percent an answer. It always leaves alot of assumption to be done and later it adds on more to that question. It's always a half-assed answer that usually creates 10 sub-questions that'll never be answered. Thats my problem. That and the show has changed alot, again read other posts above. And I was one of the people that red flagged the show around episode 5 last season. And I still believe that last season was a ton of filler and very lackluster in it's arc.

I am not really into the transformation from a show that started and was very different from week to week and then went to a show that has mini-arc's each season, ig last season was the hatch/dharam, this season is the others. I think it puts us in a spot where we only learn "x" amount on said subject. So, if you dislike what they are showing that season you may be turned off.

Also, IMO the godfather was very subtle but in a very boring and slightly re-hashing/repetitive way. I think the acting, directing, cinematagraphy, music, writing all top notch. Just the story became a little too repetitive, but I do acknowledge what it did well.

About the hook arguement, that is again something you want to do occassionally. Now it just feels tacked on. It feels like last weeks hook will be resolved the first 5 mins of this week and this week we will end with a new exciting hook at the last 5 mins. And then ABC will run an exciting promo to entice you to watch the next weeks show.

"I think it will get better, but it just needs to pick up steam and do all this set up with were Jack and them are at and what the others are."

That is a pretty big revalation you are assuming will come in the next few episodes. Exposing who the others are completely is massive in itself, let alone us learning and seeing the escape plan that we are sure someone will attempt to do soon. And it it's never been about people sitting on the beach wondering about the monster, unless you count last season where a few times they did entire episodes dedicated to silliness like Bernards SOS or Hurley and his food distribution. Is that what you want more of? Because if you'd rather have ton more filler rather than wrap up a few questions out of the 100-200 questions that have been posed... go right ahead. Personally I think I'll wait and hope for something to actually happen. No more talk or foiled plans. Something needs to happen.

PS, if these writers understood character development they wouldn't keep switching locke and jacks characters back and forth. One episode Jack refuses to give up hope and tries to break out because he is stubborn. Next day he is whipped and sobbing like a schoolgirl in the corner. Not much of a fight for a leader and a stubborn guy. Then you have locke who all last season didn't know if it was fate that was leading his character or coincidence. So he was on and off.

Characters grow and do change. But not every other day. That is bad writing.

That is a pretty big revalation you are assuming will come in the next few episodes. Exposing who the others are completely is massive in itself, let alone us learning and seeing the escape plan that we are sure someone will attempt to do soon. And it it's never been about people sitting on the beach wondering about the monster, unless you count last season where a few times they did entire episodes dedicated to silliness like Bernards SOS or Hurley and his food distribution. Is that what you want more of? Because if you'd rather have ton more filler rather than wrap up a few questions out of the 100-200 questions that have been posed... go right ahead. Personally I think I'll wait and hope for something to actually happen. No more talk or foiled plans. Something needs to happen.

PS, if these writers understood character development they wouldn't keep switching locke and jacks characters back and forth. One episode Jack refuses to give up hope and tries to break out because he is stubborn. Next day he is whipped and sobbing like a schoolgirl in the corner. Not much of a fight for a leader and a stubborn guy. Then you have locke who all last season didn't know if it was fate that was leading his character or coincidence. So he was on and off.

Characters grow and do change. But not every other day. That is bad writing.


My sentiments exactly. They are playing with the characters too much and there is no continuity and consistency. You feel the same thing for the story as well. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any twist and turns, tricks. Of course that what Lost is. But when you show something contrary to what you showed previously there should be a ration behind. If not, things seems pretty irrational. I know that there may be an explanation to irrationality. This may be one of the mysteries of the island. But sorry I'm not patient enough to watch irrational behaviours of the losties (now that we have the Others, that will be valid for them too I think) for God knows how many years to get a rational answer at the end. I don't know what it is, episodes being written by different people or it is something done deliberately, but it is annoying. Probably bad writing as you said...

These guys have a roadmap. I trust them. ABC trusts them. They give us amazing storytelling week in week out. I have faith in them. I think as a whole we are too spoilt. An average episode of Lost is better than an awesome episode of another show.

Shows develop into other beings as time progresses. These guys DO have a good sense of character development and behaviour.

Jack tried to break out yes. But by the end of the episode he was broken. I put it to you that this was probably the others aim, to break him and his will. How? By going for his weak point, his former wife.

As for Locke last season I again put it to you that he was supposed to be directionless. After the first season where his sole purpose was discovering what was in the hatch he had now become nothing more than a button pusher (something he was in his previous life).
Of course this lead him to question things and muse on coincidence and fate. I think that with the hatch gone a much more "old school" locke will emerge.

The writers/producers has said in many interviews that things have changed and that they "listen" to what the show wants to be. And being that they do that I think their "roadmap" as you called it is very open to change. Which is a good and bad thing. Good because things can change for the better. Bad because well... they weren't sure of their original intentions. This goes for the entire show. Interview after Interview i read these guys seem to contridict themselves. If they don't do that they reveal how they changed things. How henry gale was only going to be in 2 eps then 6 then he became a regular. Now, i must ask. If henry was originally a 2 eps character then became a fulltime and the leader of the others, how would they originally done it? It would've been vastly different. Same with desmond. Originally supposed to be just in 2-3 eps and then now he is a regular. Original intentions changed. I think the "roadmap" is more of an loose outline of the show. I think They created an idea. A intro, middle with a few potential plot lines and a possible ending. But that all has since changed and is changing. I mean look at the writers, each season is different. Same with producers, it seems i see different names as the episodes go on. Again, i'm fine with a show growing, but changing it's intentions is far different than that.

And the fact that ABC trusts them means nothing to me. They will trust anyone as long as ratings are high and money is filling the bank. Christ, they had shows like dancing with the stars on. And if amazing storytelling is rehashing scenarios (how many times will sawyer get pissed off at a small animal? Or will kate switch who she loves?), taking directly from other books and when something is minorly original they don't finish the story. Case and point, Lockes seeemingly pointless backstory this evening, didn't come with the most important part of a story. A conclusion. Something tells me I doubt that the next backstory of his will have the people getting arrested and locke getting out scott free.

And about the character developement is bad. Read any book on writing. It is bad to tamper with a character that much. To greatly change his ideals from episode to episode. It confuses the audience. And this last episode they did it twice. First of all they had him go back to the fate like he was in season 2 then at the end he was edging his was back towards the hunter. And now his newest trait, the new leader. And yes, it was bad to create Jack as a hardass, who only became more hardcore and has been knowingly a stubborn man give up in a manner of hours, especially after a pretty successful escape. Lame. I'd be fine if it were episoes later and it's been days but hours? Come on. That'd be like having sawyer not fight back when he was being treated like an animal. Actually, i'm suprised they did that. Being that the lack of holding onto a characters ideals is becoming rare in this show.

The writers/producers has said in many interviews that things have changed and that they "listen" to what the show wants to be. And being that they do that I think their "roadmap" as you called it is very open to change. Which is a good and bad thing. Good because things can change for the better. Bad because well... they weren't sure of their original intentions. This goes for the entire show. Interview after Interview i read these guys seem to contridict themselves. If they don't do that they reveal how they changed things. How henry gale was only going to be in 2 eps then 6 then he became a regular. Now, i must ask. If henry was originally a 2 eps character then became a fulltime and the leader of the others, how would they originally done it? It would've been vastly different. Same with desmond. Originally supposed to be just in 2-3 eps and then now he is a regular. Original intentions changed. I think the "roadmap" is more of an loose outline of the show. I think They created an idea. A intro, middle with a few potential plot lines and a possible ending. But that all has since changed and is changing. I mean look at the writers, each season is different. Same with producers, it seems i see different names as the episodes go on. Again, i'm fine with a show growing, but changing it's intentions is far different than that.

And the fact that ABC trusts them means nothing to me. They will trust anyone as long as ratings are high and money is filling the bank. Christ, they had shows like dancing with the stars on. And if amazing storytelling is rehashing scenarios (how many times will sawyer get pissed off at a small animal? Or will kate switch who she loves?), taking directly from other books and when something is minorly original they don't finish the story. Case and point, Lockes seeemingly pointless backstory this evening, didn't come with the most important part of a story. A conclusion. Something tells me I doubt that the next backstory of his will have the people getting arrested and locke getting out scott free.

And about the character developement is bad. Read any book on writing. It is bad to tamper with a character that much. To greatly change his ideals from episode to episode. It confuses the audience. And this last episode they did it twice. First of all they had him go back to the fate like he was in season 2 then at the end he was edging his was back towards the hunter. And now his newest trait, the new leader. And yes, it was bad to create Jack as a hardass, who only became more hardcore and has been knowingly a stubborn man give up in a manner of hours, especially after a pretty successful escape. Lame. I'd be fine if it were episoes later and it's been days but hours? Come on. That'd be like having sawyer not fight back when he was being treated like an animal. Actually, i'm suprised they did that. Being that the lack of holding onto a characters ideals is becoming rare in this show.

How did they have locke "go back to the fate" :confused: as you put it?? I saw the Locke that had started to emerge at the back end of last season when he finally gave up pushing the button. Locke has always been a "Hunter". Remember his first flashback episode and his case full of knives? In season 2 he strayed from this path because of the hatch and his devotion to it.

This episode was all about putting Locke back on the path of the hunter. Season 2 was his "crisis of faith".

As for Jack breaking down. Yes he has been "hardcore" in the past but no one has been able to break him down before because they knew nothing about his wife. They didn't have a file on him and every aspect of his life so as to exploit weaknesses. His flashbacks in that episode also served to show us just how emotionally fragile he could get where his former wife was concerned.

Just like Lockes "pointless" flashback in the latest episode served a purpose. It showed his longing for a proper family. It showed his inability to "clean up his own mess" in the past and how that played into doing the same this episode. Plus you had all the great dream imagery. Boone at the top of the escalators mirroring his climb to the plane in Season 1. Locke crawling over the top of the escalators mirroring his dream in ? from the second season.

Since I did complain about the first two episodes, I'll say that I really did enjoy last night's episode. It seemed to have the same feel as the previous seasons, and they continued with Locke's duality of self doubt before the island and strong convictions once he got there (even though the self doubt came back at the end of last season there was a background for it and it made sense - unlike Jack just giving up in a couple of hours behind glass and Sayid making military blunders - although maybe we should have expected that from the Republican Guard) The actions of the characters in this episode fit the vision of how I think they should act according to my interpretation of the first two seasons.

Now next weeks preview left me thinking badly again, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the first set of episodes before the long break.

On breaking Jack: They really didn't use anything in the actual file. Just said they had it and made a few comments and answered questions Jack had. That's it. If nothing else, Jack would've been more pissed and tried to break aout even harder.

On Lockes Pointless Flashback: It was pointless becasue I don't need another nail hitting the fact that Locke had no daddy and no one after his girlfriend left him. I don't need it. The guy is desperate for someone that cares. I get it. It's been every flashback of his. And yeah, we saw he wanted to "fix" things like jack does. But the problem was, there wasn't a conclusion to what he fixed or didn't fix.

It was about putting locke back into a Hunter/new leadership. But at the beginning of this eps he went started alluding to his more fate feeling that he had at the beginning of last season. And in fact they kinda stirred it all up in a big mess to make a Fate believing-hunter-who will save our fellow losties-and become a new leader. Lame. The new leadership will be set up now so in a few more episodes when Jack is gone it'll be "okay". Lame. Oh, but alteast people have super powers on this show now. God forbid anyone do that for a show with strong and building ratings. Cough:Heroes: Cough.

Don't give me this Heroes wouldn't be around if it wasn't for lost thing... cause heroes wouldn't be around if it wasn't for Marvel Comics. Not Lost.

It's slowly becoming bad, to be blundt. Actually, if you read my posts in the "eh" thread, then you know I think the last few episodes all ready are bad. At this point, the show's losing viewers exponentially. So, TPTB may as well cash in while they can by having spin off shows with the different characters while all still on the island together. We'll see that the show really jumped the shark when the great hunter went hunting a polar bear with a can of hairspray. They may have one more season after this. MAY. If they do what I suggest, it'd really such for the fans at first, but then every one could watch the show with just their favorite characters and the viewership will be huge when the season finale crossovers happen. What do ya think? A bad idea maybe, but bad like gold!

At this point, the show's losing viewers exponentially.Is there a place where we can see these numbers ?

I think the show is doing great. I still tune in every week to see what the heck is going to happen next. Every week there are exciting things going on, things that you are going to wonder about, things that make you love a character or hate a character. There are so many great stories going on right now. The show has been wonderful since the pilot and continues to be.

Is there a place where we can see these numbers ?

Yes, it's inapropriately placed in the "eh" forum. You can also google it.

Actually, if the show were losing viewers "exponentially," each episode would have one-tenth the viewers of the previous episode. I believe LOST is losing viewers arithmetically.

Lost is losing viewers, but i believe it is due mostly to Tivo. A lot of people i know record it, and then watch it on the weekends. A real loss of viewers there.

I also feel the show is going downhill. Episode six better be amazing or else im going to be very disappointed.

Well, a post like this is obviously going to be controversial, so I hope you don't mind some rebuttals.

First of all, it seems to me like your argument is all over the place and contradictory in parts. You say that you liked "chaos and randomness" in the first season. Then you claim to be upset that many season two episodes were just "for the moment and not the bigger picture." This seems contradictory to me. It also seems contradictory to say that you "love the slow reveal" and are not "hurting for answers," but then claim to be tired of the writers always "answering questions with more questions." I hope you can clarify these statements.

As for your predictions about Jack and Juliet, you may be right, you may not be. But for most of the Losties I know, that kind of speculation is what makes the show fun. It's what fuels dozens of message boards and podcast after podcast. Lost is a water cooler show. So if you think you've got your finger on the pulse-- well, maybe you do and maybe you don't. But most people tend to find that to be part of the fun.

Lastly, I would just like to point out that no show can stay mysterious forever. There's no way that an audience would tolerate endless random elements being introduced without some kind of connections being made. People have already been very vocal about the need for answers; in fact, many seem to think they are being provided TOO slowly. I guess the lesson is that old Abe adage-- you can't please all of the people all of the time...

The show is what it is. Whatever episode comes out, there are going to be people that love it and people turned off by it. Last week's premiere was a good example; while about 44% in the poll felt it was one of the best episodes of the series, and others thought is was at least good, there were a lot of complaints from a vocal minority about it. But I think it's a mistake to think it got "off track" at any point. The writers have a vision and a direction for the show, and the problem is that it doesn't always fit the individual viewer's vision. They do what they can to keep as many viewers on board as possible, but they can't please everybody.

I agree 100%. you either love this show or you don't. There's no in between. For me, what makes the show great is you don't really know where its going to go. I can tell you this, no matter how it ends, a good majority of people will think it was a stupid
ending. That's the only problem with keeping people guessing so long. No matter how you end it, it won't make up for a