One loose end from the story is the maid being fired. Was this flashback just meant to show an early memory of Sun's that illustrates something about her relationship to her father or a weakness in her moral character? Or is there more to it that will be revealed to us later -- like maybe the maid turning out to have been Jin's mother, or something like that? Thoughts?

Thanks.

I think it was to show that she has a long history of lying at times when it can really hurt people. It almost got all three of them killed this time. And just look at what happened to Jae Lee... He was the glass ballerina, literally.

I think it was to show that she has a long history of lying at times when it can really hurt people. It almost got all three of them killed this time. And just look at what happened to Jae Lee... He was the glass ballerina, literally.

I think you nailed it. She is not as sweet, honest and moral as she appears.

She lied when she was a child because she was terrified of her father. This hardly makes her immoral and dishonest. As for Jae, at the time she had the emotional affair with him, Jin was being an a-hole and was very mean to her. She turned to Jae for affection. She could not, however, go through with the physical part (my take on the bed scene). I think the moral of the story is that lies get people hurt. I do not think the intent was to knock down Sun a few pegs on the dishonesty meter.

I contemplated why Sun would lie, especially since her father already seemed to know it was her. Terror of daddy seems to be the reason. Afterall, Sun was playing the piano but stopped when daddy dearest came intot he room as though she were afraid.

We still don't know (or at least I don't recall) anything about Sun's mom, do we?

I think the lie was meant to parralel her later lie about the affair, and how she could sense Sayid's lies on the beach.

F

The episode shows us the Sun has a dark past and is not a sweet as she appears. She to can decieve and lie.

OBTW, the girl that played young Sun was spot on! :clapping:

Sun still is affected by her father's anger. When she was a child, her fear of the repercussions from her father's violent temper led her to lie. As an adult her fear of the repercussions from her husband's violent temper led her to lie. Sun is weak and this leads her to justify her weakness with a misguided logic. All the while injecting her marriage with the same vulnerabilities. She is still Lost. Oh what a tangled web we weave.......

P.S. Anyone that thinks that Sun and Jae did not have sexual relations should put the romance novels down for a while.

I think it shows that Sun can & will lie when needed. Any normal little kid would of course lie but to show that she didn't care if the maid got fired because of her lie also shows she can be heartless & uncaring.

the whole episode theme was lieing

Does anyone think that Sun's baby could be Jae's? :eek2:

After the maid got fired she moved to the US and started working for Mr. Rutherford and had to run up and down the stairs bringing Boone sandwiches. One tragic morning she fell down the stairs and died. We will not ever see a maid flashback, sorry...

;)

I think the main point was to show that other people suffer for Sun's sins. Jae Lee paid the ultimate price for getting involved with her.

I don't think that in a whole lifetime Sun could ever get over that.

Does anyone think that Sun's baby could be Jae's? :eek2:

I thought it immediately upon seeing them in bed. From what we've been shown so far it seems to be a reasonable guess. I'm just not sure how much time has happened between that bed scene and now.

She lied when she was a child because she was terrified of her father. This hardly makes her immoral and dishonest. As for Jae, at the time she had the emotional affair with him, Jin was being an a-hole and was very mean to her. She turned to Jae for affection. She could not, however, go through with the physical part (my take on the bed scene). I think the moral of the story is that lies get people hurt. I do not think the intent was to knock down Sun a few pegs on the dishonesty meter.

No, watch that scene again, it was post-sex, not pre-sex. We don't see it happen because it's on TV, but we're not seeing them lead up to something.

Don
100%
I thought it immediately upon seeing them in bed. From what we've been shown so far it seems to be a reasonable guess. I'm just not sure how much time has happened between that bed scene and now.

If we're talking about 60 days on the island before she realizes she's pregnant and then let's say, 2 weeks prior to that when Jae dies... she'd know before then. you've got the first missed period which can be sort of a "hmmm" but the second one is a definite. Right now we're up to at least 3 months in. I am pretty sure Morning Sickness is first trimester for the average pregnancy. I think the dates show more or less that she got pregnant on the island.

But there's no evidence that Jae didn't die 6 months before she left. If the baby is born bald, then we know it's Jae's.

Don

To me, this entire episode showed that Sun is more like her dad then she wants to admit. Her father is a powerful business man who takes what he wants and harms those who get in his way. Sun is a woman who also goes after what she wants - marriage to Jin, an affair with Jae, a new life in a distant country - and is willing to do what it takes to get it. However, once she gets it, she is not happy, and the cycle starts over when she sees a new goal. The maid was to show that she learned this pattern of behavior from her father.

P.S. Anyone that thinks that Sun and Jae did not have sexual relations should put the romance novels down for a while.

Agreed. That was a morning after scene.

I dont understand what you are getting at?

To me, this entire episode showed that Sun is more like her dad then she wants to admit. Her father is a powerful business man who takes what he wants and harms those who get in his way. Sun is a woman who also goes after what she wants - marriage to Jin, an affair with Jae, a new life in a distant country - and is willing to do what it takes to get it. However, once she gets it, she is not happy, and the cycle starts over when she sees a new goal. The maid was to show that she learned this pattern of behavior from her father.


Apple meet Tree.

P.S. Anyone that thinks that Sun and Jae did not have sexual relations should put the romance novels down for a while.

I don't read romance novels. Although they were in bed, Sun said she "can't do this." There is no evidence whatsoever that they had sex at any time. When Sun told Jin that she had not been with any other man, the episode was entitled "The Whole Truth." We have seen nothing contradicting that statement. You have assumed that they had sex, and you can't assume anything on this show. FYI, I do not deny that they were having an emotional affair, which is far more dangerous than a purely sexual one.
100%
No, watch that scene again, it was post-sex, not pre-sex. We don't see it happen because it's on TV, but we're not seeing them lead up to something. Don

There is no evidence that the scene was post-sex. They have shown prelude to sex on this show (Shannon/Sayid, AL/Sawyer) so if they wanted us to see that, it could have easily been shown. All they showed was Sun in bed saying that "she can't do this." You are assuming facts not in evidence (sorry, I'm a lawyer).

It would be ackward to reintroduce the maid, since we don't know her name and we haven't seen her.


But there's no evidence that Jae didn't die 6 months before she left. If the baby is born bald, then we know it's Jae's.

Don

hehe, that's one way to tell conclusively!

P.S. Anyone that thinks that Sun and Jae did not have sexual relations should put the romance novels down for a while.

Except for mine. Please read mine. I write romance.

Rune

Agreed. That was a morning after scene.

I think it was more of a nooner.

I think it was more of a nooner.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:


Hey Sleestak - haven't seen you in awhile! :smile:

She lied when she was a child because she was terrified of her father. This hardly makes her immoral and dishonest.

No, it sure doesn't.

What makes her immoral and dishonest is...

1) The fact that she lied about the glass ballerina, despite her father explaining that he would have to fire the maid.

2) The fact that she had an affair (whether sexual or not) with Jae.

3) The fact that she learned English on the sly as part of her plan to leave Jin.

4) The fact that she poisoned Michael (even though she meant to poison Jin) and did not tell anyone until Jack caught her.

5) The fact that she went along with Sayid's lie about the signal fire, keeping her husband in the dark, even though their plan was going to put them all in danger.

6) ...................................... (I'm just gonna leave this one blank, as I'm sure we have yet to hear the last of Sun's deceptions)


I realize Jin has often looked like the bad guy, and has treated her pretty bad sometimes, but you can't tell me that Sun hasn't done worse things to him. Every decision that Jin has made, has been with her best interests in mind. He doesn't always make the right choice, but his intentions are good. He only wants to protect her... at first, from the knowledge of what her father really is, and later, from the various dangers of the island.


Now, having said all that, I also think that Sun really loves Jin, even though she has made many mistakes. Jin may be the only person she really does love, because despite all the wrongs she has done, she always comes back to him, wanting to make things right. Unfortunately, I believe that sometimes she is afraid that Jin will become like her father and this keeps her from being completely honest with him.

FYI, I do not deny that they were having an emotional affair, which is far more dangerous than a purely sexual one.


Agreed

There is no evidence that the scene was post-sex. They have shown prelude to sex on this show (Shannon/Sayid, AL/Sawyer) so if they wanted us to see that, it could have easily been shown. All they showed was Sun in bed saying that "she can't do this." You are assuming facts not in evidence (sorry, I'm a lawyer)

And you are stretching it aren't you? Sorry, your a lawyer.

[I]And you are stretching it aren't you? Sorry, your a lawyer. LMAO!!!

I think when Sun says she cant do this she means she cannot continue with the affair any longer. I think if too people where getting hot and heavy they would not be lying in bed side by side together (this only happens in movies) I think Jae reaction is also not of a man hot and bothered getting denied sex but more of a man confused why his love will not choose him to be hers.

...

There is no evidence that the scene was post-sex. They have shown prelude to sex on this show (Shannon/Sayid, AL/Sawyer) so if they wanted us to see that, it could have easily been shown. All they showed was Sun in bed saying that "she can't do this." You are assuming facts not in evidence (sorry, I'm a lawyer).

I've seen that sequence 3 times this week and I'm confident of my interpretation based on the inability to show sex and nudity AND the similar set-ups we saw with Shannon. Jae essentially has her in this hotel suite over several different scenes, that is as much a "love nest" as the Shannon Hut. Sun is "waking" from a daze when the camera cuts to her. In order to explain that it was not a post-coital haze, explain what kind of a haze it was. What did we see? What would be the author's point if it didn't happen that way? We know absolutely from what we've been shown that Sun was having an "emotional affair" with Jae, so why should the story change if it's not physical? The story doesn't change.

I am a believer that Christian Shephard did not deny an affair with Sarah in any meaningful way. I go only with what we've been shown onscreen. I also believe that some of what we've been shown onscreen has been altered in later seasons by the writers after the fact. However, at this juncture, the scenes we have are Jae romancing Sun and then Sun becoming more alert nude in his bed. If you have a plausible theory, I'm all ears. My theory is- sex scene removed.

Don

Corvin12xu,
I was thinking the same thing. Two people layin' nude in the sack and nothing? It had to be afterwards. Well, maybe they were waiting for Jae's viagra to kick in :)

No, you're all wrong....!!!!

The Kwons' fired maid had to resort to finding work in an automobile factory, and she ended up attaching a muffler to the car that Hurley eventually purchased for his mother. :clapping:

The episode shows us the Sun has a dark past and is not a sweet as she appears. She to can decieve and lie.

Not a "dark" past -- just not as sweet and innocent as otherwise thought.