First of all let me say that I'm a huge Lost fan borderline obssessed with the show and would like to thank JJ and Damon personally for their initial direction of the show in general. I LOVE "Lost". I stated this to say that my critisism of some of the episodes is not meant to be negative critism. My hope is that it will be viewed as constructive criticism because I only want the show to be the best that it could possibly be. Now to the point of my post: In vewing "Lost" I tend to notice a particular pattern of loving certain episodes over other ones and later realizing that these episodes that I personally love the most tend to be witten by a collective of the same writers. Where as there are certain episodes that I don't care to much for and those episodes seem to be written by another collective group of different writers. I specifically made this post for this particular episode because it was also written by the same writers who wrote the episodes "Fire + Water" and "Dave". In anticipation for season 3 of "Lost" I've paid attention to whose writing the "eps" that would make up the 6-episode story arc and when I saw that the same writers that wrote "Fire + Water" and "Dave" were writing "Every Man For Himself" I started to get a little nervous. Mainly because I felt that those aforementioned episodes seemed to be filler episodes of "Lost", not intergral episodes in moving the "story" forward. I know that the "Lost" writers tend to sit in a story room and "feel" out the episodes which was something that I observed on the season 2 bonus DVD, so at times I'm confused as to what makes the final script for certain groups of writers verses other groups. I want each episode to be "hot", maybe different but still "hot". I hate having the feeling that when seeing that certain "eps" are going to be written by certain writers I already have feeling that episode is not going to be that good. Then having that feeling reaffirmed once that episode airs hurts. I'm sure that among the Lost writers there are certain guys or girls that are more stronger than others and that's cool. But I would have liked to have at least seen these first six episodes be written by the "stronger" writers. I didn't hate "Every Man For Himself" don't get me wrong. My main criticism with the episode was that it seemed to literally take one step forward then two steps back i.e. "Fenry" cons Sawyer then takes the con back. Kate says she loves Sawyer yet she takes it back. It left me feeling like the writers were literally running out ideas for dragging the story out. I understand having to have the story has to drag some, I don't expect reveal, reveal, reveal or action, action, action. I would just like to see the story slowed down at least more creatively. Which also brings me unfortunately to the subject of how Paulo and Nikki were introduced. I will end my post on this note: Am I anticipating seeing new Losties, no, but at least if they are going to be brought in can it be done a little bit more creatively. Just my thoughts, but who I'm I but philmac76.......

Agreed, I feel that some the writers do not move the story forward in a lot of ways. I'm no writer, however there have been so many times when I could have come up with something more interesting and understandable than what we get. And this 6 ep series need a huge piece of meaty story to tie us over for the 13 week break. I love Lost too, but some of this is just a waste of time and takes away from the true story-telling.

Maybe you've got really strong preconceived notions of these writers, so you don't give the episode a real chance and pick it apart more than other episodes because you know ahead of time who wrote it.

Hey..good post

You want to see what a terrible script looks like ?
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/S3E03_-_Further_Instructions_Transcript

They say "what" like 100 times and just keep asking question after question. 90% of the questions the audience already knows the answers too. Now that's poor writing.

Im not saying the episode was bad. But a writer would crucify this script.

I specifically made this post for this particular episode because it was also written by the same writers who wrote the episodes "Fire + Water" and "Dave". In anticipation for season 3 of "Lost" I've paid attention to whose writing the "eps" that would make up the 6-episode story arc and when I saw that the same writers that wrote "Fire + Water" and "Dave" were writing "Every Man For Himself" I started to get a little nervous. Mainly because I felt that those aforementioned episodes seemed to be filler episodes of "Lost", not intergral episodes in moving the "story" forward.

I disagree. "Fire + Water" and "Dave" are my favorite episodes of Season 2 along with "23rd Psalm", "Lockedown" and "Man of Science, Man of Faith."

"F + W" gave Charlie added layers of dimension as we see parallels between him trying to save his family in flashback with him trying to create one with himself, Aaron and Claire on the Island. It takes his love for Claire to another, scarier (maybe more realistic) level... one where we see it not as romance but raw desperate human need to belong to a family, whether one of blood, one of faith or one of fate. And confusing drowning Aaron with baptizing him because of his desperate (or drug-addled) state ... great stuff.

And "Dave" was a total shout-out to every Matrix/Truman Show inspired mind-screw theory. Was this a case of reverse psychology: telling us everything we may fear is true about the show is indeed true just so we'd stop believing those theories? I loved it. And besides... Gregg Nations says it's setting something up down the road... is Libby's David going to end up looking like Hurley's Dave? Since it can download people's memories, did the Monster take the form of Dave?

I didn't hate "Every Man For Himself" don't get me wrong. My main criticism with the episode was that it seemed to literally take one step forward then two steps back i.e. "Fenry" cons Sawyer then takes the con back. Kate says she loves Sawyer yet she takes it back. It left me feeling like the writers were literally running out ideas for dragging the story out.

The way I look at it, Ben was trying to humble Sawyer so he would help them down the road. Sawyer thinks he can Con his way out of any situation. Ben demonstrated that Sawyer's con couldn't work not only because (supposedly) the Others were smarter, but that there was no way off Alcatraz. And did Kate really mean her retaction? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't take it at face value. Perhaps Ben is manipulating the situation so Kate ends up admitting feelings she doesn't actually have... knowing that she may develop them in the process of the denial.

Epi 4 has been the first epi of Season 3 that really bothered me writing-wise. But I'm still willing to give the benefit of doubt to the writers in my hope that Ben tricking Sawyer had an actual purpose. But man, they better have a great cliff hanger prepared for me to survive the break.

I think the focus has changed from telling a story about survivors of a plane crash who end up on a mysterious island, to trying to get an audience to keep watching a TV show. I no longer feel like I am watching castaways trying to make sense of what's happening with them, instead I get a very strong feeling that what I'm watching is a bad TV show that tries to employ whatever TV cliche (i.e. cliffhangers, clever twists, huge reveals) to get me to keep watching. So the questions is; is the story weak, not good enough on it's own to keep the audience interested? Because that's exactly what it feels like to me.

This has already been well discussed in my thread "what the show has become and is becoming".
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=60023&page=18

But I agree, the writing has written itself into many many corners. Lets hope they have an escape route.

This has already been well discussed in my thread "what the show has become and is becoming".
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=60023&page=18

But I agree, the writing has written itself into many many corners. Lets hope they have an escape route.

COMPLETELY AGREE. You said exactly what I wanted to say. And there are many people on this board and other lost boards who are just as frustrated as you are.

And there are many people on this board and other lost boards who are just as frustrated as you are.
And I'm one of them!

This show had so much going for it. And there are still enough elements in it that it could be salvaged. But I no longer have any hope that it will be salvaged.

Are the writers losing focus? Yes. They need trifocals at this point. Instead, they are just trucking along, thinking they're doing fine. Pity. But there's nothing I can do to help them. That's a choice only they can make. And it looks like they're making all the wrong choices.

There are characters and plot lines that still interest me. But my enthusiasm is gone. Nice job, TPTB.

Yeah, reading these post from the various followers of the show such as myself just reaffirms what I was feeling. It is said that the show will run five seasons and here we are in middle of week 5 season 3 and we are losing faith. I'll try to keep following but it sickens me that they killed off one of my favorite characters MR. ECKO for no apparent reason what.... for him to say you are next what crap writing. I see they're trying to introduce new castaways....not interested. The writing is getting particulary thin and then we'll have a 13 week break. It'll be really hard to jump back onboard if you miss an episode. Looks like if things don't shape up I'll be only watching Lost once the seasons all become available on dvd. That's what must of friends do they offer no support via network ratings abc only nabs the proceeds from dvd sales.

The show isn't losing focus, it lost focus at episode 2.04 and is now doing a pretty good job of trying to get the train back on the tracks. Sure, we're still suffering the hang over of the disappointing second season, but with the exception of Nikki and Paulo--and the occasional bad (I'm talking George Lucas bad) snippet of dialogue, I think the show is doing a bang up job with the JKS + Others story line.

Now, if the JKS + Others storyline isn't your cup of tea, then I can understand your disappointment.

I guess we have to remember that there is a story being told here. It's not ours. We don't own it and we don't have to watch it. People can fan-fic it to death if they want, but ultimately, as long as Damon, JJ, and Carlton are involved it is their story to take where they please, even if it doesn't please everyone.


I also fail to see how Eko's death was crap writing. He had a history of being violent and abusive and he didn't repent, so the island-through smokey-made him answer for it. They didn't just kill him to say "you're next" in fact, outside of the context of the story, one must consider that AAA was ready to move onto new projects and TPTB couldn't very well keep him around and make him miserable.

I think the focus has changed from telling a story about survivors of a plane crash who end up on a mysterious island, to trying to get an audience to keep watching a TV show.


Exactly! They say they have the whole story planned out, and I believe that, but they don't need to just add episodes to make the show run more seasons than necessary. That was one of my fears when LOST became so popular. Keep to the storyline and tell this story without adding unnecessary new characters and dragging it out too much and creating soooo many loose ends without tying any old ones up. Qualty over quantity.

It seems to me that the problem is that they have a first act for every storyline and that's it. The first season was the first act of the series. It was fantastic--every episode. Every backstory was also a first act of that character's arc, and they were all great.

But once they've got all those balls in the air they appear to have absolutely no idea what to do with them. They seem to be able to pose a mystery but not answer it. Which means that the only way they can answer any question in a satisfying way is to pose another mystery in its place.

But now they've got more characters than they can profitably write for, an overall "Plan" that would fit on the back of a cocktail napkin and no way to weave all the individual character arcs into the story at large.

I'd stay tuned for a bunch more pointless deaths as they toss more dead weight overboard in an attempt to keep this thing from sinking.

Is it just me or does the average lost fan only complain? I'v been my way across countless other Lost boards and this topic always comes up. For me, I think the writing is so-so. I think sometimes they have a good idea but then it can fail easily. Take Further instructions for instance. Great idea of having Locke save Eko to get his fatih back, but saving him from a polar bear was a bad idea. However, the last two episodes of this season I thought were very well written and I'm defentilly liking this season now.

Is it just me or does the average lost fan only complain? I'v been my way across countless other Lost boards and this topic always comes up. For me, I think the writing is so-so. I think sometimes they have a good idea but then it can fail easily. Take Further instructions for instance. Great idea of having Locke save Eko to get his fatih back, but saving him from a polar bear was a bad idea. However, the last two episodes of this season I thought were very well written and I'm defentilly liking this season now.


No, this started at the end of last season. Before that, Lost Fans had a worship fest for the show pretty much on every board I went to, including this one.

Am I the only one who thinks the writers have bitten off a little more than they can chew?

I think the focus has changed from telling a story about survivors of a plane crash who end up on a mysterious island, to trying to get an audience to keep watching a TV show. I no longer feel like I am watching castaways trying to make sense of what's happening with them, instead I get a very strong feeling that what I'm watching is a bad TV show that tries to employ whatever TV cliche (i.e. cliffhangers, clever twists, huge reveals) to get me to keep watching. So the questions is; is the story weak, not good enough on it's own to keep the audience interested? Because that's exactly what it feels like to me.

Exactly!!

Nobody seems to worry about getting off the island anymore. Food falls out of the sky and nobody bats an eyelash. It was a hot air balloon. Nobody wanted to fix it?

I couldn't agree with you more. Petty filler drama plots seem to be popping up everywhere. The cliffhangers seem to be resolved without advancing the story at all. They need to get back to basics in writing and stop with the subplots that go nowhere. Tell the friggin story already.

And I'm one of them!

This show had so much going for it. And there are still enough elements in it that it could be salvaged. But I no longer have any hope that it will be salvaged.

Are the writers losing focus? Yes. They need trifocals at this point. Instead, they are just trucking along, thinking they're doing fine. Pity. But there's nothing I can do to help them. That's a choice only they can make. And it looks like they're making all the wrong choices.

There are characters and plot lines that still interest me. But my enthusiasm is gone. Nice job, TPTB.

right.. y'know, I think the staff of Lost (especially Damon and Carlton) have things squared away. Naysayers are jumping to conclusions and I think that whatever you can pick apart to have you believing the writers have "written themselves into a corner", that the staff of Lost are a few steps ahead of you. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. These people are very smart and in tune with everything is the impression I have. You just cant enjoy the show for worrying so much.

right.. y'know, I think the staff of Lost (especially Damon and Carlton) have things squared away. Naysayers are jumping to conclusions and I think that whatever you can pick apart to have you believing the writers have "written themselves into a corner", that the staff of Lost are a few steps ahead of you. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. These people are very smart and in tune with everything is the impression I have. You just cant enjoy the show for worrying so much.

I 100% agree with you. In the beginning of Season 2 I was acting like a lot of people now who say they're losing faith and they're going to stop watching (and then months later they're still watching) but then I just stopped worrying and the show got better. How can you enjoy a show if you keep worrying about anwsers and what's going to happen? Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Trust me it makes the show a lot better.

It seems to me that the problem is that they have a first act for every storyline and that's it.

Yep. They spent two years writing one of the most brilliant first acts in tv history. And now... they haven't got the chops to write a second act that is even close. As I've said many times before, anybody can write a great first act. It's the second and third act that get you.

So far I have like Season 3 writing much better than Season 2. Season 3 writing seems to be a little more "mature" than seaon 2. There were too many "trendy" phrases and down-right tacky phrases used in 2. Also, I hated the "dumbing down" on my favorite character. I still think you need a bit more brains to Con folks than they give him credit for.

Seaon 3 Epidodes have been well-written except for "Further Instructions". And I like the Locke character and Terry O'Quinn, so I felt like he got the "short end of the stick" with that episode. I never could get into it. It felt very much like the "Michael" centric episode at the beginning of Season 2. "Disjointed."

I have been watching both Season 1 and 2 over the weekend. I know folks have been bothered by the differences in the seasons, but think it is necessary because of the discoveries the Losties have made about their Island. I just don't see doing a beautiful "montage" scene - like the ones from Season 1- in Season 3. I don't see how it would work.

Keep in mind that next episode will be the first official Damon&Cuse-penned episode of the season. Both already have co-writer credits on an episode this season, but so far they haven't shared credit together.

(FWIW, despite the perhaps somewhat mixed results of The Lost Experience, I think Javi's absence is felt, too.)

(FWIW, despite the perhaps somewhat mixed results of The Lost Experience, I think Javi's absence is felt, too.)

I agree about Javi. Even worse, I think the whole Lost Experience was given to the hardcore fans to appease them. I have a bad feeling that TPTB aren't interested in penetrating the mysteries of Dharma and Hanso on the series in any meaningful way. The Lost Experience might be all we're going to get on that end. TPTB have said many times that Dharma and Hanso are only part of the island's history. I hope that's not the case (ideally, I'd like to see ALL of the island's mysteries play out), but it certainly does appear that they are taking the show in a different direction this mini-season.

Is it just me or does the average lost fan only complain?.
No. I spent two years plugging this show to my friends and co-workers, loaning them my DVDs, etc. because I wanted to share the series that I loved so much. It's only with this season that I've felt I had anything to complain about.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
I think I'll scream if I hear this one more time. I would love to be able to enjoy the ride. The whole point is that because the production quality has dropped so dramatically, the ride is no longer enjoyable.

I said that because you can't enjoy the show if you're gonna worry about it so much and just take a look at the ABC boards, every person complains about this show. I don't understand it, if you're complaning so much, why watch the show? I mean I did the same thing but at the end of Season 2 the writers gave me faith in the show again and episodes like the cost of living make me love this show so I've stopped worrying if they're making it up as they go. And so far Season 3 is off to a better start then Season 2 by a landslide IMO

Season one for me was gripping, mysterious, adventurous and a roller coaster of metaphores.

Season two added a sprinkling of shock value, but the roller coaster started to slow, and eventually ground to a snails pace, ending with what should have been an emphatic cliff hanger, that like series ones finale should have kept me on the edge of my seat for 6 months waiting for the feeling of releif when it finally turned into S03.

But alas, series 2 ended the way series 3 has begun, instead of saying "OH MY GOD!! WHATS GOING ON THIS ROXORS!" I was left thinking "Hey JJ, pass the ganja, the Warchoski brothers left us a whole stash after the Matrix 3 was finished!". Like the War bros did, 1st film, great plot, great acting, great script, 3rd film, "feck it lets finish this, go down the pub and screw the fans!".

Im finding holes in huge amounts of the plot, and the judging of human nature to be terrible. Unanswered questions keep cropping up never to be answered, mysteries that anyone else would have looked deeper into getting left behind while new less credible stoylines are unfolded, more to entertain the gazzilion story writters than to amuse us, the fans.

Ill give just two examples, you can find the rest. The medical hatch, Kate n co found it, but did they make a fuss about it, did they go back there, did Jack (being a medical type person) think "hey, that would be great if they had supplies!". Did anyone return and get the theatrical gear in the locker as evidence, or think to snoop some more. Did anyone look for hidden rooms, corridors, hatches or computers. No, they all just forgot about it.

Example 2. When Locke was getting dragged down the hole by the cloud, why did he WANT to go, and why didnt they try and find out more about it, rather than just sit there thinking "we will let it come to us!". Again, a huge impact should have been made by the machine, but its like they are treating this and many other things on the island as "oh well, s**t happens. I can assure you if a huge black cloud was chasing you around, you would either look deeper into it, or get the hell out of there and stay out!

Maybe the writters as a team are not seeing each others mistakes or ommissions, maybe they dont communicate as well as we think they do, perhaps they are letting their new found glory in the smash hit get to their heads, who knows. All I do know is my longing for the next episode each week is dwindling, normally as soon as I get the ep I watch it, but now Im waiting 3-4 days until I can be bothered. And I know I am not alone, many friends on my gaming forum have shared the same views, and feel dissapointed in the recent events in the series.

Sorry to ramble, I am still watching, and am waiting with fingers crossed that the feelings I had back in S01 will reappear soon, but at present, I dont hold too much hope.

The reason Jack didn't go to the medical hatch is because Kate told him there was nothing there. Why waste a trip? And how are they going to figure out anything with smokie? There's a gigantic hole, do you want one of your characters to go down in there? Move as far away from it as possible. And Locke wanted to go down there because he beleived at the time anything that happened to him was his destiny. The island gave him the ability to walk so why would it kill him, why would it do anything to hurt him?

There are some plot holes but sometimes you just have to put yourself in a character's position.,