What did you think? Rate it and then discuss the good and the bad. :)

I got a digital box so I watched the 7 pm show on channel 116. I give this episode a 9, very action packed.

Hmm, the island is not what we think it is. "Not in Portland" makes so much sense now.

Edit- Best line ever: "I'm Tom, by the way". Lol

I like how Jack is easing into the situation. He's getting loosened up. :D

Man, after this eppy I need a ciggie!

I have to say I found absolutely nothing wrong with this episode.

This episode is like the ones that made me fall in love with Lost! I loved it, the pace was great, and the tension kept up the whole show. Way to go guys!

I thought it was pretty good. I think it may have been the first episode of LOST, ever, to answer a few large questions and not really raise any.

this is what makes it such a great show.. it was awsome. took my breath away..
it was the longest 1 hours show i have ever witnessed.. this is what makes LOST so great! there wasnt one second that didnt keep me guessing, or hoping, or scared..
wow... thank you!

I thought it was very good, really action-packed with good revelations. It's hard for the writers to screw up an episode with a first centric eppy for a character. And Juliet's did not dissapoint. And, really, there is sooooo much more to her story. I'm glad to know that I will be intrigued to learn more about her in future FBs (if we are so lucky).

I gave it a nine. Probably should of given it a ten but I save those for the episodes I would call my favorites. I loved the flashback story. Nice to have some fresh ones. And, of course, all the island stuff was just maddening! Gotta love that :)

Man, after this eppy I need a ciggie!


No kidding--and I don't even smoke!!! I loved, loved ,loved, loved it!!!! And I am totally in love with Juliet too!

The whole thing was sooooo fast paced that I kept having to pauce and rewind it just to take it all in. But it was totally awesome! If the whole season is like this, we are all in for one heck of a ride!!! I had already read most of the spoilers prior to seeing the episode, but it didn't make a difference. Seeing it and reading about it are completely different things.

Somebody needs to give Elizabeth Mitchell an emmy! I knew that she was a great actress, as I have been a fan of hers ever since I saw the movie Frequency, but she still blew me away tonight! What a fabulous addition to the Lost family. I sure hope that she sticks around for a while!

Here's a big THANK YOU to everyone involved in making this show. It truely was worth the wait!

Andrea

Gave it a 9. Loved it. I agree with Laura - first flashback episodes are always a sweet thing. Elizabeth Mitchell was FANTASTIC, and I'll be awaiting her Emmy nomination next year. I am dying to see her next episode, which I hope will be her actual transition to Mittelos, Dharma and the island.

10! Very interesting episode. I was really glad to see Karl alive! Yay for no more Danny. WHOO!

I was too spoiled, but it was a fantastic episode. Loved the Juliet story. Loved the action. Loved the character dynamics. Loved the drama and emotion.

The next 16 weeks are going to be a thrill ride. Can't wait!:14happy:

I gave it a 10 also. I'm really glad I stayed away from most of the spoilers for this episode. I absolutely loved the scene in "the room." Good stuff!

Yay, Lost is back!!!!!!

Really good episode... loved it! I gave it an 8 (10 would be for a LTDA type of epi for me...)

So glad Lost is back!!! Period.
What the heck was the name of that new show that ran for the first month or so after Lost went on hiatus? Anyways, guess it didn't make it.

10! Absolutely loved it!

I gave it a 9 ... great pace, great flashbacks, and I officially have a girl crush on Elizabeth Mitchell now.

Really good episode... loved it! I gave it an 8 (10 would be for a LTDA type of epi for me...)

I agree. I also gave it an 8. Great episode, but I am realistic with my scores. Pilot, LTDA, Exodus 1 & 2, Walkabout, Orientation, MoSMoF are the high standards I've set for "10" status.

It felt like there weren't too many breaks for once. The pacing was really good, it's great to have Lost on again!

:biggrin: I gave this epi a 10! Absolutely LOVED it! I am never disappointed with LOST. (Except to have to go so long without it). The actors are really showing how in touch with thier characters they are. I could almost feel the emotions portrayed. I was as angry as Sawyer, as discouraged as Jack, I nearly cried for Juliet, and I definately cried when Kate was telling Jack the story he told her when they first met. Call me emotional...but this show is like family. LOVE IT!!!

My favorite episode of the 3rd season. After many episodes that were quite disappointing to me...this one got the job done. Im really excited for next week...a feeling thats been fleeting this season.

This epi was very action packed but I felt like most of that action was fairly predictable. The attack on the guard where Kate threatens to shoot the guy in the knee was great, the cheesy, tearful goodbye scene with Alex & Karl was awful. It was almost like there were no "in-between scenes" - they were either fantastic or cringe worthy. What was with the black eyeliner on the Mittelos guy? Ick..... :lipsseal:

Maybe I was just spoiled by watching too many previews and LOST Moments though. I'm hoping the next epi holds some surprises! :)

Was okay. The best part is the "cages" story arc is finally over, for the most part anyway . They really dragged that one out.

This was an outstanding epi! I have been waiting since the first scene of TO2C to see Juliet's FB and it didn't disappoint. They have a really deep character in Juliet and it will interesting to see her involvement with Mittelos and her first years on the island.

I thought it was pretty good. I think it may have been the first episode of LOST, ever, to answer a few large questions and not really raise any.

Not really raise any?! Were you watching the same episode as I was? ;)
But yeah, it was a great episode!

"Don't tell me you didn't see the old Wookie prisoner trick coming" :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: And after Sawyer's hilarious comparison to Han Solo (not that it's not true)


Best... episode... yet. This one may have done more for the show than they realized. I don't think I could have taken more questions with no answers. The satisfaction of answers needs to not stop. You can still pose new questions while still resolving old ones.

I'm also glad I didn't read any more spoilers, from the few I read of the coming season I had a feeling a submarine escape was coming, not that that wouldn't have been cool, but I was glad not to know.

Holy crap that got scary in that room for a little while, like for real.:eek2:


Also, I probably just missed it but I don't remember: Is Ben Alex's father??? Sawyer called her "Daddy's little girl" before confirmation came later, but I'm thinking maybe a father in a brainwashed kidnapped way.

I gave it a seven. It was pretty good - Loved Jack in this one (well, I love him in all of them), and there were a couple of suprising scenes. The Carl's room thing was freaky. And it was pretty sweet to see Alex again. But it didn't like, blow me away or anything. *shrug*

... and why can't I vote in the poll? Because I choose to read instead of post obsessively?

Gave it a 9 missing the beach but aside from that an amazing epi. Loved the Juliet flashback. The whole medication thing she was giving to her sister story line was great and the feeling of being trapped.

AAh... still haven't seen it!

sounds like a great eppy, though

Decent on the action...the Juliet flashbacks were better than some of the regular character flashbacks in the past...but the almost complete lack of mystery made it a bit disappointing to me after a 3 month hiatus.
Though now I'm reading about some stuff I apparently missed that is indeed intriguing.

The flashbacks weren't that great to me. Could have been better. As for the action, kate and sawyer escaping, it was alright, not the best we've seen. I'm sure things will start picking up next week, however I was disappointed after hearing on tv how great it was going to be.

I liked it.

One thing that's bothering me though is that the shocking twists are not shocking anymore. The guy getting hit by a bus? Juliet killing Pickett? Alex and her slingshot-o'-doom? Bleh.

Couple that with the cheesy dialogue and maybe the worst scene not to feature Nikki and Paulo in Lost's history: the Alex/Karl goodbye scene.

There were parts I loved though, like the brain-washing room. That was awesome.

Why didn't Kate tell Alex about her real mum though? It would have taken two seconds.

The best part is the "cages" story arc is finally over, for the most part anyway . They really dragged that one out.


I totally agree with this statement. I think that whole story was wayyyy played out.

I gave this an 8. I really liked the epi, but I am anticipating getting back with our original losties in the coming weeks is going to be even better!!:biggrin:

I gave it a 9 ... great pace, great flashbacks, and I officially have a girl crush on Elizabeth Mitchell now.

Hear hear!


I liked it.

One thing that's bothering me though is that the shocking twists are not shocking anymore. The guy getting hit by a bus? Juliet killing Pickett? Alex and her slingshot-o'-doom? Bleh.

Ah, maybe because we've all been desensitized? I read spoilers, my sister avoids them like the plague. She'd seen no commercials other than the "Lost Moments," and had seen nothing about the new "Juliet's Ex + Buss = OTP" moment. She sat there and her jaw dropped when he got buss'd. I think to the fans who avoid spoilers, it was a shocking twist.


Couple that with the cheesy dialogue and maybe the worst scene not to feature Nikki and Paulo in Lost's history: the Alex/Karl goodbye scene.

There were parts I loved though, like the brain-washing room. That was awesome.

Ah, I can forgive them: they're 16, and have never been off the island, they're not gonna be the modern day romeo and juliet without someone supplying the right lines. Alex gives off the whole gawkyawkward feel anyways. XD

And the brainwashing room was made of win even though my TV futzed so I missed half of the words. :(

Gave it a 9, because I absolutely loved it - Elizabeth Mitchell was fantastic, the first flashback thing worked greatly here and pretty much the only fault is that I want more! :biggrin: Feels good to know I will be getting some too in the next week, and the one after that, and the one after that one, and... so on.

Agree that I would've loved the Alex/Danielle thing to be addressed too, but hopefully they still will, as that is a thing that needs to be dealt with on its own and there was just too much going on in the eppy as it is.

Ah, maybe because we've all been desensitized? I read spoilers, my sister avoids them like the plague. She'd seen no commercials other than the "Lost Moments," and had seen nothing about the new "Juliet's Ex + Buss = OTP" moment. She sat there and her jaw dropped when he got buss'd. I think to the fans who avoid spoilers, it was a shocking twist.

But I've avoid the spoilers this hiatus! I think I've just watched too much TV, haha.

But I've avoid the spoilers this hiatus! I think I've just watched too much TV, haha.

Ohhh, well then I apologize. XD And that might be it - she doesn't watch much TV other than Lost.

I thought last night's eppy was awesome! It was one of those ones where you're so into it, that the commercial breaks are unexpected, and you're on the edge of your seat waiting for it to come back on. I was so afraid it would be a let down after all the anticipation, but it wasn't. It was even better than I expected!

Ah, maybe because we've all been desensitized? I read spoilers, my sister avoids them like the plague. She'd seen no commercials other than the "Lost Moments," and had seen nothing about the new "Juliet's Ex + Buss = OTP" moment. She sat there and her jaw dropped when he got buss'd. I think to the fans who avoid spoilers, it was a shocking twist.

I've tried to avoid spoilers over the hiatus (well, as much as I can avoid them given the fact I sometimes have to read and/or edit them...) and I have only seen one general promo and not a single "Lost Moment", but the moment Juliet mentioned the bus, I knew what would happen to her ex-husband! When the bus appeared in the background, I was pretty much counting the seconds until he was toast...

I rated it an 8, some good dialogue there, and because it was an episode based on a relatively new character the flashbacks weren't grating, they were pretty interesting. Unlike some people i totally wasn't expecting that bus crashing thing so that was quite a shock. I liked the jungle scenes, with Kate and Sawyer being hunted, again i thought the slingshot with alex was a bit stupid though. If that was reality that rock would've just hit his head, bounced off, and then he'd have pistol whipped her or something.

I thought the Carl room scene was really good, even Sawyer was in a trance at that stuff for a while. Jack's scenes were really good aswell, and i thought it was great the way they paralleled that whole fear story with Jack fixing Ben, it truly showed us what a great surgeon he's become.

Overall great episode, people who voted this a 10 might want to take a rain check though, it was good but it wasn't THAT good. Maybe it's because they've been starved of LOST for too long.

I voted 7, which is actually saying quite a lot, considering what little I've thought of the show this season. This was by far the most interesting episode of Season 3, but it was still not terribly wonderful. We learned a good bit about Juliet, which was nice, but beyond that... not so much. But that's par for the course with Lost, and I should be used to that by now.

I had some issues with some potential continuity errors, some forced emotions, cheesy dialogue, and simply non-plausible events, but for the most part, it was entertaining, and had a nice pacing to it... and it also had purpose. More than I can say for pretty much the rest of Season 3 thus far.

The fact that I'm not compelled to go to the "didn't love it" thread and completely disect the episode and completely tear it apart is a good sign. But I wasn't "wowed" like I used to be in season 1.

I loved it!:clapping: 9 out of 10.

Is Juliet really that bad? Well, she scores a few points with me!

Great to see Kate fight back!:biggrin:

I gave it an 8 - not brilliant, but still a very good episode. I was semi-spoiled for this one... I knew about Juliet shooting Pickett, and that Alex is/thinks she is Ben's daughter.

I didn't know anything about Juliet's flashback, and I really really enjoyed it. I got what I was hoping for: Ethan, and one or two big surprises (the bus - holy cow - and the whole Juliet hired by Mittelos-not-Dharma scenario).

I feel like speculating again... and that's a good sign :)

What did you think? Rate it and then discuss the good and the bad. :)
PHENOMENALLY WONDERFUL! I've already posted my thoughts in the "Loved It!" thread, so I won't repeat myself except to say one thing:

If this episode does not win at least one Emmy, there is no justice in this universe.

I gave it a 6, because I felt it was only slightly better than the middle of the road.

Look! ... In the makeshift operating room! ... It's a man! ... It's a juggler! ... It's SUPER Surgeon!! *yawn*

I have no problem at all with Jack being able to competently perform Ben's surgery under less than ideal conditions. He is a highly regarded spinal surgeon after all. But, he is going to perform delicate spinal surgery without any of the support a spinal surgeon normally enjoys (equipment, nursing staff, assistants, equipment, monitors, etc) under extremely stressful conditions, while throwing a temper tantrum, directing Kate and Sawyer's escape, aided by someone nausiated by the sight of blood who is also responsible for holding a walkie-talkie, death threats being tossed around the room like so much confetti, listening to Kate sob and plead, and whatever else was going on in that room. Spare me.

I get it. Jack is the hero. But good grief! It's one thing to be heroic, but this really has gotten ridiculous. *cues cheesy cartoon super-hero theme music*

The episode did have several interesting moments. Interestingly, they all had to do with the story/mythology rather than any of the characters personally.

I gave it a 10. At first I wasn't happy to see that it was a Juliet flashback, due to the fact that I didn't like her. But, the episode kind of swayed me in a new direction. And the scene with Carl in room 23 made me shudder. A Clockwork Orange all over again, brilliant.

This is the first time in a long long time that there have been more posts in the "loved it" thread than the "didn't love it" one. That's got to be good, right?

I did not like the episode!!!!! It was still the Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and The Others show and once again we saw nothing of the other Losties.

This is the first time in a long long time that there have been more posts in the "loved it" thread than the "didn't love it" one. That's got to be good, right?

Well, I also notice that most of my usual 'Eh' thread residents simply aren't here any more. They've stopped watching, or stopped caring enough to post. Depending on your perspective, that could be either good or bad. But I take it to mean, in a more general sense, that the people who have returned to watch this show generally liked this episode, but we may have lost a lot of viewers between then and now. It's only natural that the ones who came back are the ones who feel more positively about Lost.

But, being pretty much a permanent fixture in the 'eh' threads myself, I did not post there this time, so that's at least something. But I wonder what happened to my other bretheren. Did they finally stop watching?

I gave it 9, mainly because of "Karl in room 23" scene.Wow.

8/10 very good episode.

Yet another classic episode of The Jack Shephard Show!
and...
Yet another fair but blinkered episode of Lost.

While it gave us some interesting insights, I really can't enjoy the show properly until it gets back to telling stories about all of the characters, not just the big three with everyone else thrown in for cameos every couple of weeks.

Big #10 for "Not in Portland"
It answered a lot of questions and was thrilling and exciting. Plus I think the desensitizing room was awesomeness in a box! Plus introducing of alot of great theories and nice easter eggs like the "Mittlelos" Company eh eh! something there! Plus the guy looked like the son or nephew of Mittleverk any way, it was great. I love Juliet anyway so her episode would be a 10 for me no matter what!:biggrin:

I thought this episode was outstanding. The hour went by so fast, I wanted more!! I am going to prob watch this one about 50 times before next weeks episode comes on!

I liked the episode. I loved seeing Kate get back to being Kate. It was pitiful to see her in the cage acting frightened and hopeless. She is much more interesting when she is threatening people. I was very happy to see Pickett get shot. I hated that character.

It would have been better if we had seen more of the other Losties. When you become an avid fan of a TV series because of an ensemble cast and more than half the cast is eliminated through Feb of the season, you feel cheated. It's as if Sayid, Jin, Sun, Locke, Charlie, Hurley and Claire were fired and they neglected to tell us so we would keep watching.

Well, it was in the 8 region for me. I am one of the fans who has loved season three, and I think the first six episodes created the drama and build up that made the escape and wrap up of the incarceration so satisfying.

Since I'm the type that likes detailed explanations as to one's opinions, here goes:

Juliet: I am liking her more and more. I never expected her to have been a meek woman in her life in the real world. Juliet from Miami was emotional, insecure, small (in voice and stature), and seemed to be afraid of her own shadow. Flash forward three years to her time on the island, and she is one calm, cool lady. Is this the same woman who shot Pickett three times without blinking? Big bombshell: She's a prisoner too! Elizabeth was fabulous, and she really made me like Juliet (and I already liked her.)

Jack: Jack's great. I don't think he was overdone in the heroic department. Essentially, he held his ground and managed to salvage his "Do No Harm" rule. (Well, there was a wee-bit of harming, but eh). I have to say that I enjoyed Jack and Tom. Those two were just amusing. Tom's "By the way, I'm Tom," during a critical moment got a "what?!" look from Jack. Leave it to Tom to try and extend pleasantries. Also loved how Jack nipped an artery and Tom and Jack actually exchanged some amusing banter - didn't expect that either. I did love how Juliet told the "Others" to go get Sawyer and Kate, and "kill them if you have to." That's all Jack needed to hear to out her plot to kill Ben to Tom (and an unexpected conscious Ben). Smack down! Juliet tried so hard to back pedal, she should have been beeping. But poor Jack is still a prisoner, however.

Kate: Welcome back! Boy, was it me or was Kate just plain angry last night? She was motivated to get off that island, and no one was going to stand in her way, not Sawyer, not Pickett, not some guard in front of a steel door. She didn't want to chitchat, she wanted to move. Good stuff. Her final conversation with Jack was really well done and moving. Not just the emotion in Kate's voice, but how the story she was retelling to Jack was actually playing out in reality on Jack's end. That was great.

Sawyer: Good to see the old wise-cracking, butt kicking Sawyer back too. I do like Sawyer, but all the nicknames are getting a little tedious for me. Otherwise, it was a welcome return.

Ben: Wasn't expecting him to wake up. I had to laugh when Tom translated that Jack had said "Hey, I'm a spinal surgeon, not an anesthesiologist." :biggrin: It will be interesting to see what happens after Ben fully recovers to both Jack and Juliet. Also, is Alex his daughter? That was never clarified. Alex's father was only referred to as "your father." Ah, another mystery.

Tom: As I stated above, I'm liking Tom. That should be an interesting character to watch. Is he a good guy? Bad guy?

Alex and Karl: Eh, they were okay. Nothing super special.

Mysteries: What is the nature of Juliet's research? Why was it so important for her terminally sister to get pregnant? What's the significance of a young woman with a 70-year old uterus? What was Tom about to tell Jack when he mentioned the sky turning purple? Why was Karl being brainwashed?

Storypoints: Kate and Sawyer heads back with Karl. It will be interesting to see how the Losties react. Juliet will have to answer for her killing Pickett. That should also be interesting. Lastly, I never saw Jack and Juliet as a possiblity. I just never felt Jack would ever get involved with a woman who kidnapped him, drugged him, and emotionally tortured him. However, now that he knows that Juliet has been a prisoner herself for over three years, all bets are off.

As for those fans who might be upset that the other Losties were not shown, it was stated that last night's episode would be the wrap up for the Kate/Jack/Sawyer storyline. It is back to all characters beginning next week. Have no fear.

Overall, I thought Lost was very enjoyable, and after I get a chance to view it again tonight, I'm sure I'll have some more questions.

7 for me

I enjoyed it more so than other recent or not so recent episodes but no where near how I enjoyed the first season.

I gave it a 7, the highest this season, for me. What brought it down: the scenes involving Kate, Sawyer, and Alex/Karl minus the "The Room" Clockwork Orange scene.

So glad Lost is back!!! Period.
What the heck was the name of that new show that ran for the first month or so after Lost went on hiatus? Anyways, guess it didn't make it.

Day Break! I really liked the show, too ;( Luckily for me, they are releasing the rest of the 13 episode run online. I just got done watching the first online only episode. It was pretty good :)

But I wonder what happened to my other bretheren. Did they finally stop watching?

I think many of them have, and some are still around. I've been an Eh-threader this entire season (and I even posted there for this episode to express my dislike of the kate, sawyer, and alex scenes), but overall I enjoyed this ep a lot more than I did the 6 preceding it this season.

I gave it a 7 as well. I enjoyed the episode, but compared to other episodes that are up there, this one deserved a 7.

Good, solid episode. As someone else mentioned, first flashbacks always have a leg up, and this one even more so because it was the first Other's flashback we've ever seen. It always helps if we're expecting the flashback sequences to purvey answers and clues, rather than being tiresome irritants going over old ground. The opening sequence was a nice reversal by the writers - both the S2 and S3 openers feature scenes which try and fool us into thinking we're not on the island when we are, this time we're supposed to think we are on the island when we're not.

The most exciting thing for me was that stuff happened this episode! The situation at the end of the hour was very different from the way things started - coming after four episodes that moved with the proverbial celerity of escargot, this was a welcome change. I think that not including the 'beach bums' was a smart idea, as it kept the pacing strong. (Also, the writers seem to have less of a handle on those characters than they do on the Trio.) There were also no real forehead-slapping mis-characterizations, although Kate's Jack Bauer act came close.

My favorite scene was the psychedelic room the Others had Karl stashed in. One of those wonderfully demented moments when you know you're not watching just any TV show. The look on Karl's face was truly scary and a nice counterpoint to the fuzzies we're supposed to be feeling for the Others right now (Tom's squeamishness, Juliet's hard luck, and Ben's gentleman's code). These are not good people. None of them. If you try and convince me that they are, after the way they've been built up, you're going to break the spell and lose me. I look forward to learning that they are complex people with shades of gray to their character, but after what they did to Walt, Michael, and now Karl (and several people I'm forgetting), you just can't redeem them. I'm a little concerned that the death of Pickett (which I regret, what a great villain), the really nasty one, is meant to be a step in that direction.

Great episode for Jack, too, and finally some satisfaction for all of us fans who've been waiting to see the Others get a little comeuppance. Jack, in his element, abruptly ordering Tom around and maximizing his discomfiture - what a change from the 'hunting party' last season, huh? Good for him, too, finally asking some questions. Why can't you take Ben for treatment off-island? What did Ben say to get you on his side?

Before I go, I just have to say that seeing Ethan in Miami - and so recently - was just weird. Weird in a good, makes-you-think way. Last time we saw him in 'real time', he was the animalistic "jungle boy", representing (at that time) everything that was strange and awe-inspiring about the island. Hard to picture him sitting in a Toyota at a busy stop light, sipping a Starbucks' latte.

Congratulations to the cast and crew for coming back strong. 8 out of 10.

I gave it a 6, because I felt it was only slightly better than the middle of the road.

Look! ... In the makeshift operating room! ... It's a man! ... It's a juggler! ... It's SUPER Surgeon!! *yawn*

I have no problem at all with Jack being able to competently perform Ben's surgery under less than ideal conditions. He is a highly regarded spinal surgeon after all. But, he is going to perform delicate spinal surgery without any of the support a spinal surgeon normally enjoys (equipment, nursing staff, assistants, equipment, monitors, etc) under extremely stressful conditions, while throwing a temper tantrum, directing Kate and Sawyer's escape, aided by someone nausiated by the sight of blood who is also responsible for holding a walkie-talkie, death threats being tossed around the room like so much confetti, listening to Kate sob and plead, and whatever else was going on in that room. Spare me.

I get it. Jack is the hero. But good grief! It's one thing to be heroic, but this really has gotten ridiculous. *cues cheesy cartoon super-hero theme music*

The episode did have several interesting moments. Interestingly, they all had to do with the story/mythology rather than any of the characters personally.

I re-tooled my scale entirely in response to the Survivor's Guide which ran right before it, so I'll probablly refer to that. As for NIP, I was entertained and had some laughs, and I particularly enjoyed seeing the return of Kate's inner-Amazon and Sawyer at his tough, funny, not-insenstive best. I loved them individually, and I love them as a pairing very reminiscent of Leia and Han Solo. I also love Alex and am very fond of Carl, and I was intrigued by the whole "Parallax View" feel to that brain-washing scenario. I was happy to see Sawyer get a little of his own back on Pickett with the fishbiscuit electro-shock treatment, and I was more than ready to see Kate and Sawyer get the hell off that island and head for home. For that, I gave the episode an 8/10 because it provided elements that I really enjoyed a lot.

OTOH, although the FB did help give me some sense of the change in Juliet from her pre-island mess-but-not-leader phase to her much more driven, decisive and self-controlled present-day persona, I found myself looking at the clock during her FBs and wanting to get back to the action on the island. The FBs as a storytelling device have long since gotten tired for me and, for the most part, take up far too much of any episode.

As irritants go, however, they don't come anywhere close to Jack. There's suspension of disbelief... and then there's the standard we're required to adopt just for Jack. Do they really think I can sit and watch Jack with a straight face while he performs delicate spinal surgery without a surgical team, without an anasthesiologist, in a rudimentary operating room... all at the same time as he finesses the Others to help Kate and Sawyer's escape from Alcatraz? Really?

I watched the "Survivor's Guide" before the episode, and what struck me most about it is how straight-up sincere the producers are in their tremendous affection, admiration and pre-occupation with Jack. They really see him as a nice guy, hero type that everybody should like and admire. I started out seeing him like that in season 1, but he long since morphed into something much less appealing to me - strident, autocratic, hypocritical, chauvinistic - yet his flaws barely even rated an oblique reference. The showrunners and I are not at all on the same page. To me (and to many) Jack is the character that swallowed my favorite show, the character for whom a completely separate set of story-telling standards exists within the show, and the character that takes apart one of my favorites, i.e. Kate, as surely as kryptonite takes apart Superman.

On Thursday mornings, our faculty lounge used to buzz with talk of the previous night's episode. I made a point of having lunch there yesterday. When I asked if anyone had watched NIP, the conversation turned to Lost generally, and this episode specifically, for all of maybe three or four minutes. Those who are still watching the show at all (fewer than there used to be, sadly) liked the following:

* Kate's kick-butt return to form,
* the Sawyer/Kate duo, and Sawyer/Alex/Kate + Carl scenes,
* Creepy Ben waking up during surgery,
* the previews for next week.

They spent the rest of the time mocking Jack - lots of funny riffs on him being inspired by a tale of his own previous brilliance, lots of metaphorical pats on the back for not crying in this episode, predictions that the entire camp on the beach - who've spent the whole series uncharacteristically lethargic for people in a crisis situation - will now mobilize as for the Battle of Britain to go and rescue their Hee-Ro from the bad guys. Not one of them can even talk with a straight face about Jack as a "hero" character any more. That's in line with most of the reaction I see on other boards I read, and it's very disconnected from the way Damon and Carlton seem to want us to perceive the character. I'm curious to see how that will play out, but I will say that the Survivor's Guide was a big turn off to me, personally, not only for its references to Jack but for many reasons. It completely took the edge off my anticipation of the rest of the season. Hence the re-tooled scale for rating episodes based on downgraded expectations. So I guess that makes it a very watered down 8.

I would give 7 but I'm still not over the mini-season disaster so I gave it 5.

After the mini-season, the actions of characters, especially Kate and Sawyer escape scenes, were too fast. My eyes couldn't follow ;) They escaped in 1 episode. Incredible...

Well, it's always great to rewatch the episode to take it all in, and there was even more intriguing things that I found the second time around.

I enjoyed it because it doled out information throughout the episode and gave you an idea of what the Dharma Initiative may have had in mind in recruiting Juliet. Obviously, procreation is something they are very interested in for some reason.

It was interesting that the "Suddenly Susan" guy mentioned to Juliet that her sister couldn't come because she wouldn't have access to the care she needed. I mean, why not take all the medical supplies and equipment you might need to the island if you know that you are going to be conducting research and are going to be in a remote location? This may explain why Ben needed outside help for his surgery. There was nothing available. But why trap yourself like that?

It also sounded to me like Juliet's research was almost miraculous. Edmund seemed genuinely stunned by the news that "it worked." What worked exactly? The conception? The implantation? The very fact that her sister could be pregnant? Curious. Just enough breadcrumbs being dropped. I love that about Lost.

I'm still having a love/hate relationship with Sawyer. I am thrilled to see the old kick-butt, in-your-face Sawyer back on target, but his selfishness is just infuriating sometimes. I get that he wants off the island. He has been beat up one too many times, although he really needs to keep his mouth shut. However, what was the big deal about Kate asking if Jack was okay? I mean, Jack gives them their chance to get away, sacrificing himself to do it, and they make it all the way down the beach. When Kate radios Jack to request help in getting a boat, she first asks him "Are you okay?" This annoys Sawyer. First he rolls his eyes, then says, "Tell him I said hi," and then angrily demands that Kate, "Get to the point!" Now, some found that amusing. Me? I was actually sad. I keep expecting something from Sawyer on the not-selfish level, and he keeps disappointing me. I mean, this man does know that the Others are killers, brainwashers, very violent, and capable of anything, doesn't he? He's about to leave his "closest thing to a friend" behind with these psychos, and would it kill him to say thanks or are you okay or for that matter allow Kate to ask the question? Eh. What are you going to do? It's Sawyer. Maybe I'm expecting too much of him.

Jack did make his own mistake in the episode. Why would he allow Ben and Juliet to speak alone? Not a good idea, imo. Jack was holding all the cards in that moment. Juliet was a wreck because Jack outed her as a would-be killer, Ben was incapacitated with an open back, and Jack didn't have to do anything Ben requested. Jack knows that Ben is a world class manipulator. Heck, so is Juliet for that matter. Therefore, you don't leave them alone in a room together to talk. Now, maybe Juliet told Jack the truth about what she and Ben discussed, and maybe she didn't. I'm sure there's drama and turmoil on the horizon for Jack.

I think they built up nicely towards the next episode in NIP, and I'm also anxious to see the other Losties.

It's strange that people can find Jack so horrific to watch. For me, he's the only thing that's made the Hydra stuff at all interesting. I'd take a Hero Jack scene over a Smartass With A Heart O' Gold Sawyer scene or a Tough But Sexy Kate scene anyday.

Me too, TTM.

Brilliant episode ...probably one of the best yet, in my opinion...

I voted 10. :)

I voted 7. It wasn't the most amazing, but it had some cool stuff. Ben waking up during the op was the best IMO.

It's strange that people can find Jack so horrific to watch. For me, he's the only thing that's made the Hydra stuff at all interesting. I'd take a Hero Jack scene over a Smartass With A Heart O' Gold Sawyer scene or a Tough But Sexy Kate scene anyday.

I agree %100. No other character could make "Others" dynamics so interesting. That's why Jack is the man.

I agree %100. No other character could make "Others" dynamics so interesting. That's why Jack is the man.

I agree too. I thoroughly enjoyed the "Others" more because I think the dynamics between Jack, Ben, and Juliet are excellent. It's just great to watch three very intelligent individuals (and great actors), each trying to out-maneuver the other.

I do enjoy all of the characters on Lost, but Jack is the man. :biggrin:

It's strange that people can find Jack so horrific to watch. For me, he's the only thing that's made the Hydra stuff at all interesting. I'd take a Hero Jack scene over a Smartass With A Heart O' Gold Sawyer scene or a Tough But Sexy Kate scene anyday.

Tiny Time Machine,

Cool User Name btw. I agee completely with your statement above.

I rated this one a 7, because I felt like I wasn't ready to give TPTB all my "love" after the disaster of the first 6 eppys.

But enjoyable overall.

Now, I loved the Ben, Tom and Jack moments. All of them. And the scene between Jack and Kate was very emotional and heartgrabbing. A nice bit of acting by Foxy and Evi.

Juliet's fb was good, could have been better, but raised some great questions. Why was what she was doing to her sister considered so unethical? Was she planning on using her sister's baby to save her sister's life? Was she using stemcells? I want to know!!

The Clockwork Orange film and the room, and the eyeliner dude were cool. Ethan is da man.

I am really tired of all the Sawyer nicknames. What were there like 8 in this eppy? That song has been sung, and I am tired of it. I didn't laugh once at his nicknames. But the Jack and Tom and Ben snark made me laugh out loud.

I thought the underground hiding place, with the evil bad guy looking for them, and the suspense of being found, too cliche'.

But, this eppy gave me lots of hope and higher expectations for the next 15.

Cheers. Well done.

Peace!!

shoegirl

Most Sawyer fans still get a kick out of his witty nicknames for people. They are part of his character. I wouldn't expect to see them disappear anytime soon. Just like Hurley isn't likely to quit telling jokes, and Sayid isn't likely to drop his skeptisim. As long as Sawyer is still part of the show, I am sure that you can expect that his nicknaming habit will continue. It would be out of character for that to change.

I LOVED this episode. I was so happy to have it back, though, so my vote may be a little biased :hypocrit:

I thought that this episode was great. Maybe because it had been so long and I was glad to have Lost back. I thought that it was an informitave episode. I was also glad to see that Kate and Sawyer got away. And now I am excited to see whats coming.

Most Sawyer fans still get a kick out of his witty nicknames for people. They are part of his character.

Hopefully, there will be less and less of them. They are overused. LOL.

But this is a thread to rate the episode. So I don't think this is a place to continue this aspect of the discussion LISE.

shoe

love this ep! kinda like tom in this ep. and alex and karl's goodbyes were heartbreaking too. and loved the fact about the production design! i mean they really can make hawaii just like anything!

Most Sawyer fans still get a kick out of his witty nicknames for people. They are part of his character. I wouldn't expect to see them disappear anytime soon. Just like Hurley isn't likely to quit telling jokes, and Sayid isn't likely to drop his skeptisim. As long as Sawyer is still part of the show, I am sure that you can expect that his nicknaming habit will continue. It would be out of character for that to change.

I don't want it to end, but the writers need to tone it down a little. It's like anything else, when it gets used too often, it gets old, rather than being witty.

I still think Sawyer has a great sense of humor. I just think the writers should tone down the use of a nickname in every other sentence coming out of Sawyer's mouth. That's all.

It seems the people bothered by Sawyer and Kate's scenes liked Jack's scenes (like me), and people who thought Sawyer and Kate's scenes were good thought Jack's scenes were beyond suspension of disbelief (I didn't find anything remotely ludicrous about them). Perception is such a funny thing ;)

I gave it a 7.

10 for hitting the guy with a bus. :73happy:
Minus 3 for a lack of Desmond. :down:

Equals 7. :1smiling:

It seems the people bothered by Sawyer and Kate's scenes liked Jack's scenes (like me), and people who thought Sawyer and Kate's scenes were good thought Jack's scenes were beyond suspension of disbelief (I didn't find anything remotely ludicrous about them).Trust me, theres nothing remotely surprising or new about this development. It tends to come from two similiar-but-different vocal minority camps. Meh

I thought it was all good except for the Alex/Karl good bye. I dont think it was terrible, but it did garner the bigggest "do I give a ****?" of the night.

I'm not in the "Love Jack scenes, hate Skate scenes" camp or viceversa. I like all the characters and thought their scenes were great. Didn't care much about the Alex/Karl goodbye, but I loved the eppy.

It's not that I'm very surpised by it, I'd just never actually seen people who liked the Sawyer and Kate scenes previously disliking the Jack scenes. It's not that I dislike Sawyer or Kate, I just thought their scenes this week (and a chunk of their scenes in the previous 6 eps) ranged from meh to cringe-worthy.

I love to see differing opinions on stuff like this. It gives me another chance to try and see things from another light. Doing so has allowed me to enjoy things about the show that I previously thought were irrelevant or not so great. I still haven't come around on this issue (and I just know I'll never see Jack's scenes as anything but the savior of season 3 so far), but it's a good mental exercise ;)

It's not that I'm very surpised by it, I'd just never actually seen people who liked the Sawyer and Kate scenes previously disliking the Jack scenes. It's not that I dislike Sawyer or Kate, I just thought their scenes this week (and a chunk of their scenes in the previous 6 eps) ranged from meh to cringe-worthy.

I love to see differing opinions on stuff like this. It gives me another chance to try and see things from another light. Doing so has allowed me to enjoy things about the show that I previously thought were irrelevant or not so great. I still haven't come around on this issue (and I just know I'll never see Jack's scenes as anything but the savior of season 3 so far), but it's a good mental exercise ;)

I definitely agree that Jack's scenes have been the best of the season, if not the entire show. I think that some people's dislike for Jack is merely jealousy that their favorite, whoever that might be, does not get such powerful stuff. That said, I don't think the other characters (Others included) have had meh scenes, they have had good stuff too.

I like to consider the entire arc of every character and the only things that bother me are when characters act in a way that contradicts previous traits (i.e. all secretive Locke inviting Pikki to the Pearl's hike), but other than that, I enjoy the character construction on this show very much.

It was definitely one of the best. 2nd best episode this season

I rated this episode a 7 which I felt was pretty generous considering the momentum that Lost had, uh, lost ;P with the 6 prior episodes.

This one definately had a much harder job to pick up the pace and I think it do so rather well considering the way the plot has been laid out.

Unfortunately, a lot of the magic that has made Lost what it is has been missing this season and even in this episode. Although having some twists and adding a little more mystery about the Others, specifically Juliet, the plot really didn't conjure up that feeling in me that I used to feel during the first 2 seasons. I felt that some of the events were a little tired, like the Clockwork Orange brainwashing room that some others also picked up on, or the silliness of the overall escape. Yeah, it was interesting to see Juliet shoot Danny to the amazement of Sawyer and Kate, but it almost seemed a little too forced to me.

However, despite some of these minor flaws, I was definately glued to this episode and I was enjoying watching this show again. I just can't help feeling that too much time has been spent/wasted with the Others and Jack/Kate/Sawyer and not enough with the rest of the survivors. The prior seasons seemed to flow a lot better than this season in regards to bouncing around between certain events. This season definately feels a lot more fractured.

Anywho, I feel that we are definately getting back on track with this show and instead of dreading it prior to the break, now I'm getting excited about watching it again :)

Good job!

Finally got around to seeing it.

This was without a doubt one of the show's lamest. The characters of Kate and Sawyer are a joke. I can't believe that this is the same show I was watching 2 years ago.

Second best of the season for me :)

I loved this episode. It gave me the insight of Juliet I was waiting for. I loved her from the start. But this episode made me love her more.

Excellent episode, almost perfect. Gets a nine in my book.

This was a really good episode, action filled, intense. The walkie scenes with Jack and Kate is a definate favorite no, so well acted.
Juliet was great too her flashbacks fresh and interesting.

I'm exceptionally happy that Danny is dead, and it was really interesting to learn more about Juliet and Alex. Amazing eppy!

Actually, I didnt like to see Danny go. He added much more stress between negotiations of the Losties and the Others. If he hadnt gotten killed, he could have created a bigger mess of things. + I love seeing Juliets ex get slammed by the bus.

P.S he got hit by a bus with the APOLLO candy bar logo on it.