Others murdered
1.Ethan
2.Goodwin
3. Eko victim 1
4. Eko victim 2
5. Woman who Ana killed
6. Other Saywer shot
7. Colleen


Castaways murdered
1. Shannon
2. Ana
3. Libby
4. Eko
5. (Boone, but he wasn't exactly murdered).
6. Steve
7. Tallie murdered by Goodwin.

No wonder Others and Castaways are so bitter towards eachother. You can blame all the others deaths on the castways, and in an indirect way blame all the castaway's murdered on the Others (example: Others drove Micheal to murder Ana and Libby)

I'm not trying to prove whether or not with "side" is the good guys, but rather showing why there is so much hatred towards eachother. Sure, I could also put how the others kidnapped Claire and tried to murder Charlie, but I think death strikes the hardest. You couldn't help but almost ball your eyes out when Pickett found out Colleen was dead. I HATE Picketts guts, but still. Poor Pickett...

Also consider that the Others probably don't see their people getting murdered. Its only been 70-something days, and they had 7 of their people murdered...that might be more than they ever had before.

It is odd. The Others are obviously doing something on the island. They have not officially killed anyone that I can remember. All of the deaths you listed were due to someone on the plane.

They also don't seem too keen on helping other people either. They took Danielle's daughter and have just left Danielle herself for fate to decide for sixteen years. They have kidnapped other people for whatever reasons, yet they don't seem to care much that there are random people living there.

I agree that whatever they are up to probably doesn't involve their own people getting killed. Those seven that are dead may comprise a pretty high percentage of their population. Their little city doesn't look very big and Colleen's funeral did not have many in attendance. Perhaps they want Kate, Jack, and Sawyer to take up the jobs that some of their dead comrades used to do.


Edit: wait, I was wrong, Goodwin killed that dude from the tail section afterall.

Most castaways you mentioned didn't die by the hand of others. Ana and Libby were Michael's victims - at no time did the others ask them to kill anyone. Eko was killed by the security system/monster, and Boone's death more or less was an accident.

I could agree that Shannon's death was lead via the other's manipulations, but besides her so far I can imagine only 2 direct deaths by the hands of others - Nathan killed by Goodwin and Scott (or was it Steve?) killed by Ethan. They also hung Charlie and were ready to sacrifice Claire to get her baby. Even if it wasn't for all the kidnappings and other secretive behaviour, it's basically no wonder the castaways are so hostile to the others and for all I'm concerned they brought it unto themselves.

I could agree that Shannon's death was lead via the other's manipulations, but besides her so far I can imagine only 2 direct deaths by the hands of others - Nathan killed by Goodwin and Scott (or was it Steve?) killed by Ethan.

I'd go even further - the only time we saw an Other kill was Goodwin. We never saw who killed Steve Scott. We never saw Ethan hang Charlie. Granted, he was the prime suspect for both, but we have no evidence whatsoever. Remember, Charlie didn't wanted to talk about what happened when he and Claire were taken. Also, he didn't hesitate to kill Ethan - was that his anger, or was he covering up something?

The Others did pretty mean things - setting fire to the raft, taking Walt, taking Claire etc, but they aren't as murderous as suggested.

They [The Others] took Danielle's daughter and have just left Danielle herself for fate to decide for sixteen years.

Danielle's doing just fine for a woman who killed her entire crew and - still armed - remains a danger (you could thirst to death before you were found in one of her traps).

The Other's could have shot her like a mad dog... but they haven't.

ETA: love the avatar Kitsume. :D

It's easy to see it as all relative when you ignore the context. Colleen was killed while trying to steal someone's sailboat with an armed gang. Eko and Ana killed Others on the beach when then had already abducted many people including children and were trying to abduct Eko as well. Ana killed Goodwin when he attacked her. You don't just steal, kidnap and assault people and get away with it.

Why are the Losties the agressors just because of strict body count? It's their actions you have to look at. Nathan was killed for nothing, he was walking away. Sceve was killed for doing nothing, Ethan had threatened to kill an innocent person to get Claire back. Charlie was hanged for defending himself and Claire when they were being kidnapped. None of the Losties were in the process of committing any crimes or violent acts against the Others when they were killed.

They also don't seem too keen on helping other people either. They took Danielle's daughter and have just left Danielle herself for fate to decide for sixteen years. They have kidnapped other people for whatever reasons, yet they don't seem to care much that there are random people living there.


1. Although its likely how do we know that it's Danielles daughter
2. Alex, as much as I love her I don't know if I trust her. She could be in on The Others' diabolical phsycological plot.

No doubt The others are up to something or just crazy, but I think The Others haven't experienced so much death in a short period of time (either has the castaways) and that's obviously driving their aggression. It's going to be shown in "I Do" when Pickett looks like he's going to kill Saywer.

The Others did pretty mean things - setting fire to the raft, taking Walt, taking Claire etc, but they aren't as murderous as suggested.


Just for clarification, didn't Walt set fire to the raft?

It does seem that the castaways have done more killing than the Others actually have, but they're stranded on an island and facing strangers who appear to mean them great harm. There has to be some allowances made for that. They're not just killing them to watch them die or anything.

The second raft. They blow it up leaving Sawyer and Michael drifting on pieces of rubble. It's just a game of devil's advocate. We feel for the Losties because we've been with them from the start, but they have killed. It'll be interesting to see that Other (Juliette) flashback.

It's easy to see it as all relative when you ignore the context. Colleen was killed while trying to steal someone's sailboat with an armed gang. Eko and Ana killed Others on the beach when then had already abducted many people including children and were trying to abduct Eko as well. Ana killed Goodwin when he attacked her. You don't just steal, kidnap and assault people and get away with it.


I agree 100% PJ. My thoughts exactly.

They also shot Swayer on the raft and stole another man's child right from his arms..Then threw a bomb and tried to blow them all up..

I guess those of you who are playing devil's advocate for the "Others", have selective memories and don't have children...

The second raft. They blow it up leaving Sawyer and Michael drifting on pieces of rubble. It's just a game of devil's advocate. We feel for the Losties because we've been with them from the start, but they have killed. It'll be interesting to see that Other (Juliette) flashback.


Oh that raft fire.
Duh! How did I forget about that?

Yeah, the Losties have killed, but again they did it defensively. They're stranded on an island and with strangers who seem to be harmful to them. Their motives have been to defend themselves. The Others haven't killed anyone as directly, but their motives are definitly more malicious than the Losties are. Are they any less guilty if they 'kill' them mentally (breaking them with mind games etc...) rather than just shoot them? The castaways are only trying to defend themselves, I'm sure they would rather have not had to kill.

Others murdered
1.Ethan
2.Goodwin
3. Eko victim 1
4. Eko victim 2
5. Woman who Ana killed
6. Other Saywer shot
7. Colleen


Castaways murdered
1. Shannon
2. Ana
3. Libby
4. Eko
5. (Boone, but he wasn't exactly murdered).
6. Steve
7. Tallie murdered by Goodwin.





I dare say I am glad you are not a lawmaker, your definition of murder is incredibly loose.