Could Ben be Alex's father?

Oh that's an interesting thought and thus he would have been part of Danielle's expedition (if there was one)

I think Benry could have been Alex's "father" after the Others took her from Rousseau. Perhaps he raised her since that time.

Ben says he's always been on the island, so he couldn't have been part of the expidition...of course, Ben's a liar, but...

Sure seemed like he's her father, but I think he's probably her "island father", not her biological one. Not saying he's not lying about being born on the island. He could be lying. But Alex didn't call him "dad". She called him "Ben."

I was wondering the same thing myself... the other interesting thing is that I got the impression that Alex was asking all about Ben... and Juliet withheld that information... the question is why.

Could Ben be Alex's father?

I was wondering what that was about. Why would he ask that about Alex? If he is her adoptive father then why would she call him Ben? She was asking Pickett presumably about Karl and said she wanted to see Ben? If he's her father why couldn't she just see him herself? There's definitely some relationship there but the lines confused me.

LL, he could be Alex's "island father" that makes a lot of sense, so is everyone younger then him his child?

I think it's very possible that he is her biological father...but maybe SHE doesn't know...

This revelation would certainly shed new light on that scene where she caught him in her net...

or, ben is just the leader and she wanted to talk it up with him.

but i like the father idea.

Like what could have happened with Aaron if Claire had not escaped, Alex was raised by an Other - Ben being that particular Other.

Could Ben be Alex's father?
With a fertility doctor on the island


ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE

I'm trying to recall Rousseau's timeline with Alex. I'm thinking Benry's role is much more sinister, as Benry seemed much more concerned with Alex and her asking for him, while Alex was screaming and demanding to see him. I'm sensing quite a bit of discord there.

There was definitely a note of caring in his voice, which was strange to see from Ben, who usually refrains from showing any personal emotion.
Assumedly this is because he is loopy from the anesthetics. He seemed to genuinely be concerned about her. This certainly indicates some sort of personal relationship. If he was her father, I'm not sure why she would call him Ben, but he could have been a close part of her upbringing.

well maybe danielles story is bogus and either she went crazy and over the years just made up all these stories ( i mean come on all these years on the island never noticed hatches, a village, another island, u name it) or she is part of the others and maybe her real last name is jacob.
something deff going on with juliet, maybe she is the one coning and those cards were really about her being dangerous. At times he seems like hes a good guy and when he seems evil it seems to be a reason, as in hes just pissed something isnt going his way. Anyways wouldnt be suprised ben is actually the good guy or turns good after the surgery.
he did say before he went under that he was ready to die, as in hes ready for the afterlife with no prob. as a good person.

At first I got this creepy feeling when he asked that, but I keep having to remind myself that Alex is 16!!! I'm wondering now if he could be...

But wasn't Danielle's husband on the same expedition she was?? His name was Robert. SHe was almost "due" when they crashed there. My thought - since they stole her when she was a little baby, maybe he raised her and she sees him as a "Father figure" and he sees her as his daughter.

I agree with the guess that, if anything, she doesn't know he is her father. Maybe he was just wondering about her due to her escape?

If Ben's telling the truth (an iffy proposition, I know), then HE, just like Alex, has spent his whole life on the Island. This is a VERY significant thing for the two to have in common. They could relate to each other much better than they could to all these people who came from "out there."

And OF COURSE Juliet lied to Ben when he asked if Alex had asked for him. Juliet is anti-Ben, remember? And Pickett is apparently on Juliet's side. Tom led all the "hillbilly" outings that Alex went on with him, so Tom's pretty pro-Ben, I'd say. What we're seeing here is the battle lines being drawn: who is on which side of the Ben/Juliet conflict.

If I'm right, then Jack had better put his money/life on Ben. Seeing that Juliet's already asked Jack to kill a patient on the operating table, and brought Kate in to talk him into doing the operation, I'd say that if Jack had to choose at this point, Ben would get the nod--at least, for now.

Anyway, it's nice to see Alex again, and learn more about where her loyalties lie.

Could be. But my first thought was she wanted to talk to the man in charge.

Ben being her father was the first thing that ran through my head too.

[quote=South Shore;1269671I'm thinking Benry's role is much more sinister, as Benry seemed much more concerned with Alex and her asking for him, while Alex was screaming and demanding to see him. I'm sensing quite a bit of discord there.[/quote]
Even if he was her father, she would still be screaming at him if she thought that he was responsible for Karl's fate. In fact, if she was his daughter she would feel on more comfortable terms with him and wouldn't be afraid to scream for him and make demands.

On a different note, this could have also been out of concern for Ben. Perhaps she knows that Juliet and others are against him and that his life may be in danger. She may be panicking because she does not want to lose him like she lost Karl.

Ben being her father was the first thing I thought. Well, the one who raised her on the island at least. I liked that line though- it pushed Ben into a more vulnerable, sympathetic position for me because the line seemed like he really cared. Now it really seems like Juliet is the more "evil" one.

Oh that's an interesting thought and thus he would have been part of Danielle's expedition (if there was one)

Danielle may be crazy but i dont think she is blind. She is after all the one who captured ben and shot him with the arrow when he tried to escape. If Ben is Alex's biological father I think she would have recognized him.

From the way he asked if Alex had asked about him, I'd say that if Ben isn't her biological father, he raised her and cares about her.

I assumed when Alex screamed, "What did you do with him?" that she was referring to Karl, but could she have been referring to Ben, knowing that Pickett and Juliet were plotting against him? That would make sense with Ben ultimately being a "good" guy -- when Alex told Kate not to believe anything "they" said, maybe she was referring only to Pickett and Juliet, not Tom or Ben?

Danielle may be crazy but i dont think she is blind. She is after all the one who captured ben and shot him with the arrow when he tried to escape. If Ben is Alex's biological father I think she would have recognized him.

I could have bought into the theory that Danielle was part of this group because who goes on expedition when they are about to give birth? That in and of itself seems very unbelievable. But KC has a point, Danielle would have recognized Ben when she caught him. The only other thing I can think of is that whatever the others got involved in, Danielle wanted no part of. They either abandoned her, or she them, which could make Ben Alex's father.

Ben asked Juliet that question because he knew Juliet had recently seen Alex. Their exchange was a tip-off that Juliet and Alex worked together:

1) Ben ordered Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery, probably left the details to her.
2) Juliet got Alex to come in and give Kate the big scare about Sawyer.
3) Juliet left the doors open for Jack.
4) Alex woke Jack up, using the intercom.
5) Juliet arranged for Ben to be out of the monitor room.
At that point, before Ben went back in and found Jack, she may have clued Ben in about the details.
6) Juliet sent Alex home.
7) Ben, knowing this, asks Juliet if Alex asked about him.

I don't know if Alex is anti-Ben or pro-Ben. Either way, she worked with Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery.

Sure seemed like he's her father, but I think he's probably her "island father", not her biological one. Not saying he's not lying about being born on the island. He could be lying. But Alex didn't call him "dad". She called him "Ben."

My thoughts, exactly.

Ben asked Juliet that question because he knew Juliet had recently seen Alex. Their exchange was a tip-off that Juliet and Alex worked together:

1) Ben ordered Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery, probably left the details to her.
2) Juliet got Alex to come in and give Kate the big scare about Sawyer.
3) Juliet left the doors open for Jack.
4) Alex woke Jack up, using the intercom.
5) Juliet arranged for Ben to be out of the monitor room.
At that point, before Ben went back in and found Jack, she may have clued Ben in about the details.
6) Juliet sent Alex home.
7) Ben, knowing this, asks Juliet if Alex asked about him.

I don't know if Alex is anti-Ben or pro-Ben. Either way, she worked with Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery.

Wow, how did you figure all that out? Good points. It makes total sense to me.

Ben asked Juliet that question because he knew Juliet had recently seen Alex. Their exchange was a tip-off that Juliet and Alex worked together:

1) Ben ordered Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery, probably left the details to her.
2) Juliet got Alex to come in and give Kate the big scare about Sawyer.
3) Juliet left the doors open for Jack.
4) Alex woke Jack up, using the intercom.
5) Juliet arranged for Ben to be out of the monitor room.
At that point, before Ben went back in and found Jack, she may have clued Ben in about the details.
6) Juliet sent Alex home.
7) Ben, knowing this, asks Juliet if Alex asked about him.

I don't know if Alex is anti-Ben or pro-Ben. Either way, she worked with Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery.

I disagree. I think Alex was reacting honestly. She saved Claire and when she snuck in to talk to Kate she seemed completely genuine. I think she's good, and furthermore, that she knew about Juliet and Pickett's plotting against Ben. I think Juliet had every intention of letting Pickett kill Sawyer too. She told Kate that she had "failed" when clearly Kate had begged Jack to do the surgery.

And OF COURSE Juliet lied to Ben when he asked if Alex had asked for him. Juliet is anti-Ben, remember? And Pickett is apparently on Juliet's side. Tom led all the "hillbilly" outings that Alex went on with him, so Tom's pretty pro-Ben, I'd say. What we're seeing here is the battle lines being drawn: who is on which side of the Ben/Juliet conflict.


Yeah... I agree that Juliet is definitely anti-Ben, but I think she would withhold this information from him only if it were important... only if it would have some sort of bearing on her plans. I think this proved a deeper connection between Alex/Ben... that Juliet has some sort of problem with...

Alex is "Lucius" from the Planet of the Apes.

Also, I thought it was positively evil the way Juliet lied to Ben about Alex in the OR. He obviously cares very much about Alex -- his last words before the surgery were asking about her. And Juliet lied without batting an eye, letting Ben go into surgery -- and what she thought would be his death -- without knowing that Alex had been desperate to see him. I really think Alex knew that Juliet and Pickett were going to try to kill Ben, just as she knew that they would kill Sawyer no matter what Kate did to try and convince him.

Don, that's hilarious!

If Alex and Juliet are both rebelling against Ben, why do Alex and Ben seem to have this interestng relationship?

What if Juliet is the "bad guy" and Alex and Ben are working together? Sure, Ben is the "leader" and Alex seems to be this rebellious teenager, but what if they are working together against Juliet?

I don't know. I'm tired. ... Time for bed, I guess. I'm out of ideas.

I disagree. I think Alex was reacting honestly. She saved Claire and when she snuck in to talk to Kate she seemed completely genuine. I think she's good, and furthermore, that she knew about Juliet and Pickett's plotting against Ben.

I'll have to think about the idea of Juliet and PIckett working together, I haven't seen any signs of that.
Alex is a pip, I'm not sure how she gets away with everything she does. I've given up on labelling people "good" or "bad", my opinion changes at least weekly. Alex (like everyone else) has shown she's capable of deception, and I've long wondered about her "role" in the Claire charade. Alex didn't seem any more genuine than Ethan to me.

I think it's very telling that the only person who appears to be anti-Ben is Juliet. Characters like Alex and Pickett have their own agendas, but their not actively working against Ben. Tom seems almost smitten with him.

As for the Alex/Ben relationship, my guess (like several others) is that he's been the father figure in her life since she was abducted as a baby. Perhaps that role wasn't established until she was older, hence calling him Ben instead of Dad?

Maybe Ben threw out the Alex line to Juliet just before he was going under to cue Juliet in that Ben knows about Alex and Juliet's plan to kill him, but trusts Jack, or at least thinks that it's worth a shot. If Alex and Juliet were planning their own little rebellion, it would be great if Ben knew about it all along, and kind of slapped Juliet in the face with it right before he was knocked out.

I'll have to think about the idea of Juliet and PIckett working together, I haven't seen any signs of that.
Alex is a pip, I'm not sure how she gets away with everything she does. I've given up on labelling people "good" or "bad", my opinion changes at least weekly. Alex (like everyone else) has shown she's capable of deception, and I've long wondered about her "role" in the Claire charade. Alex didn't seem any more genuine than Ethan to me.

I don't think Pickett was working with Juliet. His whole angle in this episode was to find an opportunity to kill Sawyer as revenge for the death of his wife. Juliet even chastised him for his rough treatment of Sawyer.

As for Alex, she seems like a loose cannon to me, kind of the "problem child" of the Others. Pickett seemed slightly bemused by her antics, and also seemed like he had seen her do this kind of stuff before. Pickett's treatment of her also indicated that she doesn't have carte blanche when it comes to her movements, which could stem from the fact that she isn't an original Other.

Ben being her father was the first thing I thought. Well, the one who raised her on the island at least. I liked that line though- it pushed Ben into a more vulnerable, sympathetic position for me because the line seemed like he really cared. Now it really seems like Juliet is the more "evil" one.Yes, this episode convinced me he's the good one.

Ben asked Juliet that question because he knew Juliet had recently seen Alex. Their exchange was a tip-off that Juliet and Alex worked together:

1) Ben ordered Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery, probably left the details to her.
2) Juliet got Alex to come in and give Kate the big scare about Sawyer.
3) Juliet left the doors open for Jack.
4) Alex woke Jack up, using the intercom.
5) Juliet arranged for Ben to be out of the monitor room.
At that point, before Ben went back in and found Jack, she may have clued Ben in about the details.
6) Juliet sent Alex home.
7) Ben, knowing this, asks Juliet if Alex asked about him.

I don't know if Alex is anti-Ben or pro-Ben. Either way, she worked with Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery.Now I don't know what to think! :confused:

I think it's very telling that the only person who appears to be anti-Ben is Juliet. Characters like Alex and Pickett have their own agendas, but their not actively working against Ben. Tom seems almost smitten with him.

As for the Alex/Ben relationship, my guess (like several others) is that he's been the father figure in her life since she was abducted as a baby. Perhaps that role wasn't established until she was older, hence calling him Ben instead of Dad?

You're probably right. Either that or he knows he's her real father but she doesn't.

Maybe Ben threw out the Alex line to Juliet just before he was going under to cue Juliet in that Ben knows about Alex and Juliet's plan to kill him, but trusts Jack, or at least thinks that it's worth a shot. If Alex and Juliet were planning their own little rebellion, it would be great if Ben knew about it all along, and kind of slapped Juliet in the face with it right before he was knocked out.
I think Ben seemed genuinely disappointed that Alex hadn't been concerned about him, and that Juliet was completely cold-hearted to lie to him about it. I actually felt sorry for him when he said, "see you in another life."

Yes, this episode convinced me he's the good one.

Me too. And I agree with everyone -- there isn't much evidence that Pickett and Juliet are plotting together. I just really changed my mind about Juliet tonight -- I think she's evil.

My thought was that Juliet and Ben had a previous relationship (mentioned before I know) and that they were the ones who had raised Alex, as her parents on the island.

I thought it was calculating of Juliet to lie to Ben about Alex asking for him...and she did it in such a throw-away fashion, almost as if she was a compulsive liar, lying about things that don't matter, as a habit. Maybe she lied to Ben about Alex to hurt Ben...if she really is one of the other "factions" then perhaps she hurts him any chance she gets, just as some people hurt Sawyer every chance they get.

About Ben being the surrogate father for Alex...I don't know, I'm not convinced of this yet. Maybe it's just what TPTB WANT us to think!
who knows??????

I've been trying to figure out if Ben/Juliet were once a couple or are siblings or what. But during the exchange about Alex it struck me that they could be Alex's surrogate parents unless if in Otherville they don't have parents but more of a communal set-up where parenting duties are shared amongst the group. Still, the exchange seemed to show a relationship of some sort between Ben/Juliet even if they are no longer together in their goals.

Danielle was preg when the ship crashed so I doubt that Ben is bio-dad to Alex. Baby Alex was kidnapped and Ben probably raised her or oversaw the raising of her.

hmmm....I just thought of something--maybe Ben asked if Alex asked about him because Alex knows Ben has a tumor? Alex may not know Ben was going into surgery, but maybe Ben hoped she'd ask about him because she was worried about his health? Maybe it wsn't cuz he's her father, but because he's the "leader" of the group, and he hopes Alex cares for him in some small way?

If Ben's telling the truth (an iffy proposition, I know), then HE, just like Alex, has spent his whole life on the Island. This is a VERY significant thing for the two to have in common. They could relate to each other much better than they could to all these people who came from "out there."

And OF COURSE Juliet lied to Ben when he asked if Alex had asked for him. Juliet is anti-Ben, remember? And Pickett is apparently on Juliet's side. Tom led all the "hillbilly" outings that Alex went on with him, so Tom's pretty pro-Ben, I'd say. What we're seeing here is the battle lines being drawn: who is on which side of the Ben/Juliet conflict.

I like the way you think. We seem to be on the same page. I was going to make a new thread about my theory about Ben and Alex's relationship but what you said is along the same lines.

I think that Ben was telling the truth that he has lived his entire life on the island and after the episode I got to thinking. Alex and Ben seem to have a strong connection but the only thing I could come up with that really had evidence to that was the fact that she had spent her entire life there as well.

This is why I think that the Others have been kidnapping children and were so interested in a pregnant Claire. Perhaps something about the island affects children and makes them special somehow or maybe a child is required for a procedure. Walt didn't end up working out, maybe he was too old or just wrong somehow and they let him go.

When Ben says "We aren't the bad guys" or "We aren't killers" I think he is referring to himself, Alex, and whoever else may be born and raised on the island and those who support him. I think there is something significant that ties them together and if there is a sort of father/daughter connection I believe it was fostered by Ben and Alex having the same condition. Alex let Jack out of the cell somehow and tried to help Kate and Sawyer (although armed with a slingshot **?**). Ben saved Locke while being held captive in the Swan and let Michael and Walt go. I also believe that he intends to help Jack get home as well although I doubt circumstances will permit.

Also, it seems that Alex was able to do some interesting things. She made an intercom work that shouldn't and unlocked Jack's cell from seemingly far away. In the last episode when Ben was speaking to Jack about belief in god, you could distinctly hear the sounds Smokey makes when the camera was on Ben. There was a thread about it that was pretty much ignored but I know I heard it. Maybe the significance of the born and raised Islanders has something to do with electromagnetism or something similar since Smokey seems to be mechanical.

Also, I think that when Ben went to the losties and got caught last season that he had escaped from the Others. He seems to have authority but he and Alex seem like they are prisoners on the island in some odd fashion. Maybe Ben's authority comes from fear of what he is or what he is capable of. Afterall, why wouldn't they just send Ben to the mainland for surgery?

Well, that got long winded quick. Congratulations to anyone who actually read that wall of text. It's difficult to try to flesh out theories and connections over the computer especially when there is scant evidence and mostly gut feeling driving it. I think this is what the two fractions of Others surrounds and that Juliette wants to put an end to it

I have to rewatch this epi again, but from what I remember, before Ben went for his surgery, he asked Picket if Alex asked about him, and when picket said no, Ben looked like he was dissapointed and hurt. That just kinda stuck out to me, and Alex did ask to see Ben, so Pickett lied to Ben. But why? Maybe Ben had taken over as Alex's foster father, or guardian. She was with them for 16 yrs, someone would have gotten close to her, or bonded with her, maybe that someone was Ben. He did say he was there all his life. Just wanted to hear any thoughts about this.

Ben asked Juliet that question because he knew Juliet had recently seen Alex. Their exchange was a tip-off that Juliet and Alex worked together:

1) Ben ordered Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery, probably left the details to her.
2) Juliet got Alex to come in and give Kate the big scare about Sawyer.
3) Juliet left the doors open for Jack.
4) Alex woke Jack up, using the intercom.
5) Juliet arranged for Ben to be out of the monitor room.
At that point, before Ben went back in and found Jack, she may have clued Ben in about the details.
6) Juliet sent Alex home.
7) Ben, knowing this, asks Juliet if Alex asked about him.

I don't know if Alex is anti-Ben or pro-Ben. Either way, she worked with Juliet to get Jack to do the surgery.

I think Ben was behind the whole thing - I don't think it was Juliet or Alex at all setting the scene here. I felt like they were just following orders from Ben. He is a control freak and scared crapless of dying and losing total control over everything.

I felt Ben knew Alex asked about him and was testing Juliet with the question.

I do not think either one of them are "good"

I was wondering the same thing myself... the other interesting thing is that I got the impression that Alex was asking all about Ben... and Juliet withheld that information... the question is why.

Have you noticed how people miss subtle things like that and then make a few hundred posts about why they didn't like an episode?:undecide:

As with every episode this season, for everything revealed there's another layer to peel.

I feel that Alex was talking about Ben, and not Karl, when she was asking Pickett "what did you do to him?" I also felt that Pickett is in on the plan against Ben with Juliet, and Alex is aware of this. This also explains why they sent her "home" and Juliet denies Alex asked for him when Ben asks Juliet about her. But then I thought, if Pickett is in on a plan to get rid of ben, why would he have given over the walkie to Kate, why not just let Ben die then? Ofcourse maybe he only did that because Tom is not in on the plan to get rid of Ben. Crazy stuff. My question then is, what exactly happens in "two weeks", why has the schedule for whatever that is been moved up, and who is the "him" who the order is coming from?

*Breach at the work compound*

Pickett on the walkie:

Pickett: "Where is she?" "I want him (Sawyer) on the ground, her (Kate) too. If he moves, you shoot him."

Other side of walkie: Pickett, (not sure) you/they there?"

Pickett: "yea, they're here."

Other side of walkie: "okay"

Pickett: "Did the Doctor get out again?"

Other side of walkie: "no"

Pickett: "you sure? well does he know?"

Other side of walkie: (not sure) "not yet"

Pickett: "how the hell did she get over here??"

Alex comes on scene:

Alex: "get up, come on, get up! GO!"

Danny Pickett: "Alex! Alex! What the hell do you think you're doing?"

Alex: "What, are you gonna shoot me??"

Pickett: "you know you're not supposed to be here. So let's just calm down..."

Alex: "What did you do to him, Danny?? Where is he? I wanna talk to Ben."

Pickett: "Sure! That sounds like a great idea. So why don't we just lower our little slingshot..."

Alex: "Where is he?? Tell me!"

(guy behind Alex grabs her.)

Pickett: "get her out of here."

guy: "what do I do with her?"

Pickett: "Get her OUTTA HERE!"

Alex: (to Kate & Sawyer) "Listen, whatever they said, DON'T believe them! They're gonna kill your boyfriend. Just like they killed mine."

* Commercial Break - Next Scene*

(Pickett & Juliet talking low in the background)

Pickett: "I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks."

Juliet: "Our schedule's been moved up.

Pickett: (not sure) "What, the hole?"

Juliet: "It's coming from him."

Pickett: "That's stupid."

Juliet: "It's not my call. It's the way it is, Danny."

Pickett: "Alright."

Now how can we trust the others, when they don't even trust themselves!! They lie to each other and have a bunch of problems within their group. Why was Alex asking for him though? That's the question I want to know. I felt kind of bad for Ben when Juliet lied to him about Alex not asking for him. I don't know why, I hope I'm not the only one!!!

On second thought, Pickett asking Juliet "I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks" probably refers to whatever they are building, because I remember on Episode 1 of this season, when Ben and Kate are dining on the beach, Ben tells her "the next two weeks, are going to be very unpleasant." But I'm still curious as to who exactly the "him" is who is giving the orders that moved up the schedule of whatever they are building. I'm almost assuming that Pickett is inferring that he has Sawyer as labour for 2 weeks and is pissed that he's gonna have to kill Sawyer (or otherwise relieve him of his working duties) before those 2 weeks of labour are up.

After reading the posts for this thread, I must say that there is a lot of possible angles to what is possibly going on. I think that several people have already suggested what is actually going on. And that is that there is at least two different factions working at odds with each other in the "others" camp. Ben is obviously the head of one faction, and you can argue that Juliette is the head of the other.

Why do I think there is more than one faction working in the "others" camp? If for no other reason than this. Ben went to the "Losties" side of the island by himself. Being raised on the island I am sure he knows about the polar bears, old smokey, and even the natural island dangers. But yet he chose to go alone. Why? Because when it comes down to it, it maybe that he does not know who to really trust. So he decided to go to the "losties" to approach Jack. Only he got snagged in Rousseau's trap and his plan went to hell from there.

Now, where does alex fall in all of this? I think the whole "what has happened to Karl" scenario is just a way for the Juliette faction to get to Alex. For whatever reason, Ben is willing to let Karl go through some "redoctrination". Which requires that he be in isolation. Now since Alex is concerned for his safety, then it is sugested that she has been told to play nice or else lover boy gets hurt.

As for Alex's relationship with Ben... I also think it is more of a father / daughter relationship. But regardless of the relationship, with Ben asking about her prior to his surgery shows he does care about Alex and that after the scene where she attacked the "others" with the slingshot she was not taken to see Ben but was sent back to the village. Again a way to keep Alex from Ben and telling him what she knows. Bens seems to think that his island paradise is made up of good people, but he also seems to be a little niave about the true actions of some of his people as well as their true motivations.

I'm almost assuming that Pickett is inferring that he has Sawyer as labour for 2 weeks and is pissed that he's gonna have to kill Sawyer (or otherwise relieve him of his working duties) before those 2 weeks of labour are up.


:eek2: Oooooh, I like this a lot, it works!
Except I don't think Pickett's pissed about offing Sawyer early, I think he's happy.
In a previous episode, Pickett was told something like "not yet, we need him".

It makes a lot of things fall into place, including Kate telling Jack "It's something big" about what they're building - as in important, not size.
100%

(Pickett & Juliet talking low in the background)

Pickett: "I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks."

Juliet: "Our schedule's been moved up.

Pickett: (not sure) "What, the hole?"

Juliet: "It's coming from him."

Pickett: "That's stupid."

Juliet: "It's not my call. It's the way it is, Danny."


Imo, Juliet was speaking with a forked tongue here. She's anxious to get Ben into surgery, and she needs Kate & Sawyer now, so she's lying to Pickett.
Ben thinks he needs to get into surgery right away, too, but that's just because Juliet and Jack have told him so.

On second thought, Pickett asking Juliet "I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks" probably refers to whatever they are building, because I remember on Episode 1 of this season, when Ben and Kate are dining on the beach, Ben tells her "the next two weeks, are going to be very unpleasant." But I'm still curious as to who exactly the "him" is who is giving the orders that moved up the schedule of whatever they are building. I'm almost assuming that Pickett is inferring that he has Sawyer as labour for 2 weeks and is pissed that he's gonna have to kill Sawyer (or otherwise relieve him of his working duties) before those 2 weeks of labour are up.

I wonder if we'll see what the final product is for whatever Sawyer, Kate, and a host of Others have been working on? At first I thought it was just goon work, but now I don't think that's the case. Are the excavating something or building something? Why the timeframe, and why has it been moved up? Ben making the call, or someone else?
100%
I think that Ben was telling the truth that he has lived his entire life on the island and after the episode I got to thinking. Alex and Ben seem to have a strong connection but the only thing I could come up with that really had evidence to that was the fact that she had spent her entire life there as well.

This is why I think that the Others have been kidnapping children and were so interested in a pregnant Claire. Perhaps something about the island affects children and makes them special somehow or maybe a child is required for a procedure. Walt didn't end up working out, maybe he was too old or just wrong somehow and they let him go.

He seems to have authority but he and Alex seem like they are prisoners on the island in some odd fashion. Maybe Ben's authority comes from fear of what he is or what he is capable of. Afterall, why wouldn't they just send Ben to the mainland for surgery?



This is interesting stuff. What if Ben's authority comes from not who he is but what he is? Maybe Juliet's telling the truth when she said Ben is "very dangerous", but the danger isn't because he's "evil", but because he has the power to inflict harm (perhaps inadvertantly) to others. I wonder if he has "abilities" that become subdued when away from the main Island?

I thought that maybe Ben and Alex had some sort of relationship. Maybe Ben acts as a father figure for her. But if Ben is her dad, I would think that Alex would have said "I want to talk to my father" not "I want to talk to Ben".

I just find it very interesting that the Others are keeping Ben and Alex separated.

Ben couldn't be Alexs' bio-father....Danielle was already 7 months pregnant when she arrived on the island.

(This was in response to earlier posts.)

there is certainly some kind of relationship there. maybe they are close because they kinda grew up together. since she was born there, her and ben share a connection.

Okay, so clearly Alex has been Raised. By. An. Other.

(p.s. Thank you LOST writers for your ever-intriguing episode title doublespeak)

So, I'm willing to bet my Dharma Initiave glass eye that Ben is Alex's foster father of sorts-- she's taken by Rousseau as a baby, and raised by an Other. Yes this has already been suggested in this thread-- but it's obviously more complicated than that. She calls him "Ben" not Dad, Pops, etc. So I want to go out on a limb and say that maybe Ben as foster-father betrayed her in some way - i.e. she found out that he isn't her biological father, that she was taken from her real parents as an infant- and now refuses to call him "Father" as is common with some children who feel displaced from their parents. That's not to say that Ben doesn't care for her; there was clearly some concern on his part for Alex. Perhaps he felt obligated to tell her the truth since he loved her so much (?) It would make sense that this break occurred just before she freed Claire, which we saw during the flashbacks in "Maternity Leave." Maybe once Alex was no longer a child, they were done "working on" her and let her go? She seems to be a fairly free agent (as in she can roam around, is free to slingshot them in the eye without being put in a cage), which, again, brings up the question of free will on the island.

Again, this is all straight-up speculation.

All in all, Alex is a pretty hot-headed teenager; as was mentioned before, she is only 16, and I think the Others are banking on that fact as an acceptance of her behavior. And as she's been part of their camp for oh, her whole life, they can tolerate her outbursts, and in the scene from last night's episode we can see that they kind of treat her as an angsty adolescent. What I'm most curious is what is her position/ranking among them? She's allowed to go on some missions, but not allowed at the "Hydra site." Is she in a sort of purgatory between Losties and Others?

Ooops. I said the "P" word.

As far as the whole "Did Alex ask about me?" thing---
I think Juliet was being spiteful by not telling Ben that she was demanding to see him. She thinks this might be his last conscious moments, and she will not tell him that Alex, perhaps his beloved foster daughter, was asking for him (albeit to found out what the deal was with Karl.) Oh Juliet and her agendas...

Although that's not to say that either Ben or Juliet is good/evil. I think we'll have to see the aftermath of Jack's ultimatum to feel that out more.

I think Ben sent Alex to find out some information and she was trying to report in to him. Ben asked about her because he was expecting a report.
It does seem like there really are two (or more) factions in the Others group. The Juliette faction doesn't want Alex to report to Ben.

(Sorry if I repeated someone else's conjecture. I didn't read all 6 pages of posts.)

Ben cannot be Alex's biological father. Period. Rousseau (sp?) was pregnant before she got to the island, and her husband was with her, and ben was born on the island. (of course, I'm assuming all those things are true...in this show, you can't bet on that).

I don't think Alex was working with Juilet; she seemed to tell Kate that they would kill Sawyer because of her own experience with her boyfriend. I don't know if he's dead or just being held somewhere, but that's what she was looking for.

I did crack up when she came out with a sling shot, though. Friggin ridiculous.

I think Ben thinks that he is the father of all the children raised in the "commune".

Juliet lied to Ben when she said no, but no one that heard her called her out on it. Who's on Juliet's team is something the losties need to figure out (but they won't). We also shouldn't assume that we would prefer Juliet's rule to Ben's.

Ben cannot be Alex's biological father. Period. Rousseau (sp?) was pregnant before she got to the island, and her husband was with her, and ben was born on the island. (of course, I'm assuming all those things are true...in this show, you can't bet on that).

I don't think Alex was working with Juilet; she seemed to tell Kate that they would kill Sawyer because of her own experience with her boyfriend. I don't know if he's dead or just being held somewhere, but that's what she was looking for.

I did crack up when she came out with a sling shot, though. Friggin ridiculous.

Also don't forget that Rousseau captured Ben and then gave him to Sayid. She would know if it was the same person who impregnated her. Everyone seems to over look this fact. Ben is Not Alex's biological father maybe he is her adopted father but no way is he her biological father.

Also don't forget that Rousseau captured Ben and then gave him to Sayid. She would know if it was the same person who impregnated her. Everyone seems to over look this fact. Ben is Not Alex's biological father maybe he is her adopted father but no way is he her biological father.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Krall, but we don't really know that Rousseau didn't recognize Ben when she caught him. I remember really wondering when that episode aired, whether she knew exactly who he was. She immediately was positive that he was "one of Them," and her insistence that "for a long time, he will lie" made me think that he was possibly a member of her original team and betrayed her.

Danielle stated that she had never seen another person on the island, and as unbelievable as this is, I believe her. She may be partly insane, and certainly isn't divulging the half of what she knows, but we don't yet have a reason to doubt her basic facts. So, if she's only heard other people (whispering) and never seen anyone, how would she have any idea of what the Others are really like, let alone be able to confidently identify one? It seems at least possible that one of her team members (maybe Brennan, who we know was alive when she recorded the transmission message) was an Other and betrayed the team. Unlikely, but almost every possible scenario about Danielle and her team is weird.

And even if Ben is telling the truth and spent his whole life on the island, it doesn't necessarily mean that he literally spent every moment of his life there. Maybe he's left the island and returned.

Anyway, just playing devil's advocate -- I'm not saying I disagree with you.

Also don't forget that Rousseau captured Ben and then gave him to Sayid. She would know if it was the same person who impregnated her. Everyone seems to over look this fact. Ben is Not Alex's biological father maybe he is her adopted father but no way is he her biological father.Although this is the obvious answer I don't think we can dismiss anything completely as they obviously have some sort of fertility/genetic program going on. :shrug:

OT: Who was that Doctor several years back (10? 15?) that fathered like 30 children through his clinic?

Ooh Thank you Thank you!!



I feel that Alex was talking about Ben, and not Karl, when she was asking Pickett "what did you do to him?" I also felt that Pickett is in on the plan against Ben with Juliet, and Alex is aware of this. This also explains why they sent her "home" and Juliet denies Alex asked for him when Ben asks Juliet about her. But then I thought, if Pickett is in on a plan to get rid of ben, why would he have given over the walkie to Kate, why not just let Ben die then? Ofcourse maybe he only did that because Tom is not in on the plan to get rid of Ben. Crazy stuff. My question then is, what exactly happens in "two weeks", why has the schedule for whatever that is been moved up, and who is the "him" who the order is coming from?

*Breach at the work compound*

Pickett on the walkie:

Pickett: "Where is she?" "I want him (Sawyer) on the ground, her (Kate) too. If he moves, you shoot him."

Other side of walkie: Pickett, (not sure) you/they there?"

Pickett: "yea, they're here."

Other side of walkie: "okay"

Pickett: "Did the Doctor get out again?"

Other side of walkie: "no"

Pickett: "you sure? well does he know?"

Other side of walkie: (not sure) "not yet"

Pickett: "how the hell did she get over here??"

Alex comes on scene:

Alex: "get up, come on, get up! GO!"

Danny Pickett: "Alex! Alex! What the hell do you think you're doing?"

Alex: "What, are you gonna shoot me??"

Pickett: "you know you're not supposed to be here. So let's just calm down..."

Alex: "What did you do to him, Danny?? Where is he? I wanna talk to Ben."

Pickett: "Sure! That sounds like a great idea. So why don't we just lower our little slingshot..."

Alex: "Where is he?? Tell me!"

(guy behind Alex grabs her.)

Pickett: "get her out of here."

guy: "what do I do with her?"

Pickett: "Get her OUTTA HERE!"

Alex: (to Kate & Sawyer) "Listen, whatever they said, DON'T believe them! They're gonna kill your boyfriend. Just like they killed mine."

* Commercial Break - Next Scene*

(Pickett & Juliet talking low in the background)

Pickett: "I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks."

Juliet: "Our schedule's been moved up.

Pickett: (not sure) "What, the hole?"

Juliet: "It's coming from him."

Pickett: "That's stupid."

Juliet: "It's not my call. It's the way it is, Danny."

Pickett: "Alright."

This passage combined with the quote by lostmio ( I think that's right) about Juliet and Alex working together. I don't agree.

Juliet moves freely between the three areas (cages, rock cutting, and underwater Swan). Ben likely asked Juliet if Alex asked about him because she told him Alex had snuck into the area. Everyone acted like she was the kid who was breaking a cardinal rule and out after curfew. And though they grabbed her, no one harmed Alex (that we know of). I think Ben at the very least sees her as a foster kid. And she demanded to see Ben because she wanted answers about Karl and does not trust Juliet or Pickett.

The fact Alex let Jack out of his cell, that could possibly be her working with Ben. In which case, Ben also asked Juliet the question to test Juliet. Maybe he already knew Alex had asked about him, so he feigned daddy concern and hurt boo boo feelings in another endless mind game - this one with one of his own. When Juliet lies, Ben knows where her loyalties really lay - and it's clearly not with him.

I love whoever said Mr. Friendly Tom is smitten with Ben... lol But he surely seems more a big teddy bear and less the menace that we saw in the first seasons. Too many people playing too many head games with each other.

Juliet moves freely between the three areas (cages, rock cutting, and underwater Swan). Ben likely asked Juliet if Alex asked about him because she told him Alex had snuck into the area. Everyone acted like she was the kid who was breaking a cardinal rule and out after curfew. And though they grabbed her, no one harmed Alex (that we know of). I think Ben at the very least sees her as a foster kid. And she demanded to see Ben because she wanted answers about Karl and does not trust Juliet or Pickett.

The fact Alex let Jack out of his cell, that could possibly be her working with Ben. In which case, Ben also asked Juliet the question to test Juliet. Maybe he already knew Alex had asked about him, so he feigned daddy concern and hurt boo boo feelings in another endless mind game - this one with one of his own. When Juliet lies, Ben knows where her loyalties really lay - and it's clearly not with him.


I'm pretty sure Alex is the one working with Ben, especially if she was his foster daughter and she probably has an idea of Juliet's plan. I have a feeling Juliet is the one who told Ben to put Kate and Sawyer in the cages and there's kind of a battle between Alex and Juliet for Ben's power with Juliet being the one who wants to take it and Alex being the one who wants Ben to keep it. And I agree that Ben is onto Juliet's plan.

Could Ben be Alex's father?


I don't know if this message will reach hell or not (LOL), but if Ben asked about Alex before going under the knife, then he definitely has some sort of intimate connection with her. It may be that he is the father. We'll see.

I think Ben thinks that he is the father of all the children raised in the "commune".



I get the same feeling. The children are key - maybe protecting them is Ben's entire motivation I don't think Alex believed she would be hurt because of the value she (and other children) hold on the island. Maybe the children are believed to be humanity's last chance??

All the mind-playing in this ep! Michael Emerson was gooooooooood in the scene where Jack escaped and then agreed to do the surgery.

-I think Ben let him out, gave him access to the gun, let him see Kate and Sawyer together (made a remark to rub it in), and played him...by becoming the play-ee. He gave Jack a gun, an escape, a reason not to save Sawyers life, and an opportunity to shoot him in the head ("guess this is the proverbial nail in my coffin"), all so that Jack would reject it as a trap. Ben seemed taken aback almost at how quickly he got the reaction he wanted from Jack...

It seems like there's more to this surgery, I just don't know what. Did Jack definitely find a tumor?

The whole conversation right before Ben goes under was strange - does anyone have a transcript?

IMHO, I think that Ben might have 'adopted' Alex. But, obviously, she isn't liking how things are going in 'camp'. It seems that the Others are not impressed with her relationship with Karl. The girl is acting out of rebellion for her boyfriend, I think. I do wonder if she know that her mother is still alive.

In the preview for next spring, we see Alex helping Sawyer and Kate escape. So, the rebellion continues...GO ALEX!!!!

i really dont think that ben is her biological father. I believe Danielle and i think she is telling the truth that they took alex away.
100%
Alex is gonna be an awesome character

Ooh

I love whoever said Mr. Friendly Tom is smitten with Ben... lol But he surely seems more a big teddy bear and less the menace that we saw in the first seasons. Too many people playing too many head games with each other.


I found this very funny as well and if you watch the scene where Mr. Friendly is on the walkie talkie he looked very concerned about Ben. Makes you wonder.

I feel that Alex was talking about Ben, and not Karl, when she was asking Pickett "what did you do to him?" I also felt that Pickett is in on the plan against Ben with Juliet, and Alex is aware of this. This also explains why they sent her "home" and Juliet denies Alex asked for him when Ben asks Juliet about her. But then I thought, if Pickett is in on a plan to get rid of ben, why would he have given over the walkie to Kate, why not just let Ben die then? Ofcourse maybe he only did that because Tom is not in on the plan to get rid of Ben. Crazy stuff. My question then is, what exactly happens in "two weeks", why has the schedule for whatever that is been moved up, and who is the "him" who the order is coming from?

Wow, what can I say, that is amazing and I really got a lot out of that. I agree with you on this. The two weeks reference could very well apply to the surgery as the schedule did get moved up.
100%
I think Ben seemed genuinely disappointed that Alex hadn't been concerned about him, and that Juliet was completely cold-hearted to lie to him about it. I actually felt sorry for him when he said, "see you in another life."

I agree with everyone -- there isn't much evidence that Pickett and Juliet are plotting together. I just really changed my mind about Juliet tonight -- I think she's evil.

I felt sorry for Ben, too.
Pickett could have pushed the whole death of Sawyer thing to control Kate.. Juliet sounded fake when she chastised him and Pickett sounded fake at times.. could be the acting. But it would lend some credence to the idea if it were true..

My thought was that Juliet and Ben had a previous relationship (mentioned before I know) and that they were the ones who had raised Alex, as her parents on the island.

That does seem to fit their relationship dynamic.

Maybe the significance of the born and raised Islanders has something to do with electromagnetism or something similar since Smokey seems to be mechanical.Maybe Ben's authority comes from fear of what he is or what he is capable of.
Really good point. After all, he comes across as being rather meek. He might also have some kind of esp or the "Walt power" of making things happen.
100%
On second thought, Pickett asking Juliet "I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks" probably refers to whatever they are building, because I remember on Episode 1 of this season, when Ben and Kate are dining on the beach, Ben tells her "the next two weeks, are going to be very unpleasant."

Still, that could have been the scope of their surgery plan.
100%
Ben cannot be Alex's biological father. Period. Rousseau (sp?) was pregnant before she got to the island, and her husband was with her, and ben was born on the island. (of course, I'm assuming all those things are true...in this show, you can't bet on that).

If Ben is lying about being on the island his whole life, he could have been part of Danielle's group. Or she may have become pregnant on the island. I know it is unlikely, but I think she acted strange toward Ben when he was captured as well. "He will lie. For a long time he will lie" and "he is one of them". Creepy! That doesn't fit with the superBen theory, though and I like that one. ;)

I agree that Benry is more of a "surrogate father" for Alex. However, ever since Alex has become suspicious about her origins, she's been rebelling against him - - including calling him "Ben" rather than "Dad."

I just find it very interesting that the Others are keeping Ben and Alex separated.

I actually think it may be Benry's decision to keep himself separated from Alex for the time being...he has serious matters to attend to (like his surgery, and getting whatever else he wants from J/K/S). He cares for Alex, but he's leaving her to be attended on a different compound so that her antics will be one less thing for him to worry about (obviously, Alex escaping and finding her way into the work camp threw a monkey wrench into that). There has probably been tension recently in the relationship between Alex and Benry, and Benry doesn't want his fatherly love for Alex to be a distraction while he bribes Jack and tries to accomplish whatever Benry feels needs to be done.

I believe that Alex is being kept in the same place as Zack and Emma. There is probably an area on Hydra Island where the children are specifically indoctrinated by Miss Klugh and other caretakers among The Others...Alex might be assigned to help look after the children, sort of as a "babysitter." Some of the captured adults (maybe some of the female Tailies, such as Cindy) might have already been assimilated and are being corrupted under the threat of keeping the children safe.

If we ever get a Miss Klugh flashback episode, I predict we will get to see some of the happenings at Miss Klugh's Day Care, including how exactly the children are "reeducated."

Cool ideas about Miss Klugh's Daycare! I'm looking forward to seeing the whole scenario too.

I think it's very likely that Ben is Alex's biological father and if so, it brings the whole idea about the "sickness" on the island into focus again. Rousseau's husband got the sickness, and died, Rousseau says, but Rousseau is a little crazy. Her husband might have died to her, but maybe only in a metaphorical sense? Or he died and was reborn as an Other? Rousseau definitely knew that Ben was an Other. He might have become sick, become an Other, gone away, and then returned to kidnap his daughter.

I've had a theory for some time that the "sickness" that Rousseau told us about transformed its victims into "Others" rather than killing them. I think the Others have suffered some kind of brain disease (which might have led directly to Ben's spinal cancer) which has left them thinking differently, perhaps indirectly sterile, and also possibly under sentence of death from brain, spine, etc., cancer or other complications.

That would account for the injections - the Others only want the innocents and "good people" breeding, or at least free from the illness, and they therefore only provide THEM with the injections. This also makes me wonder whether the whole set up at the Other facility wasn't designed to get Jack to operate on Ben and cure his spinal cancer. And Juliet was testing Jack with her schemes to turn on Ben. Because if they can trust Jack to operate on Ben without killing him, maybe they can trust him to operate on all of them? Maybe they're all sick with spinal cancer as a result of the sickness?

Just a theory, but would be interested if others have thought along similar lines.

benry is alex's boyfriend, don't you see? She asks "what did you do to my boyfriend" and wants to see ben. Later Benry asks if alex had ask about him. Age doesn't matter, for all we know they are same age but benry has aged alot more due to some tests or anomaly.

Now how can we trust the others, when they don't even trust themselves!! They lie to each other and have a bunch of problems within their group. Why was Alex asking for him though? That's the question I want to know. I felt kind of bad for Ben when Juliet lied to him about Alex not asking for him. I don't know why, I hope I'm not the only one!!!

No, you're not the only one... I felt bad for Ben as well. I don't know why but I can't stand Juliet and I actually like Ben more than her. I don't understand why she wouldn't tell Ben, the only reason I can think of is that she hates ben.

benry is alex's boyfriend, don't you see? She asks "what did you do to my boyfriend" and wants to see ben. Later Benry asks if alex had ask about him. Age doesn't matter, for all we know they are same age but benry has aged alot more due to some tests or anomaly.That would be a truely funny twist!!

I agree that Benry is more of a "surrogate father" for Alex. However, ever since Alex has become suspicious about her origins, she's been rebelling against him - - including calling him "Ben" rather than "Dad."



I actually think it may be Benry's decision to keep himself separated from Alex for the time being...he has serious matters to attend to (like his surgery, and getting whatever else he wants from J/K/S). He cares for Alex, but he's leaving her to be attended on a different compound so that her antics will be one less thing for him to worry about (obviously, Alex escaping and finding her way into the work camp threw a monkey wrench into that). There has probably been tension recently in the relationship between Alex and Benry, and Benry doesn't want his fatherly love for Alex to be a distraction while he bribes Jack and tries to accomplish whatever Benry feels needs to be done.

I believe that Alex is being kept in the same place as Zack and Emma. There is probably an area on Hydra Island where the children are specifically indoctrinated by Miss Klugh and other caretakers among The Others...Alex might be assigned to help look after the children, sort of as a "babysitter." Some of the captured adults (maybe some of the female Tailies, such as Cindy) might have already been assimilated and are being corrupted under the threat of keeping the children safe.

If we ever get a Miss Klugh flashback episode, I predict we will get to see some of the happenings at Miss Klugh's Day Care, including how exactly the children are "reeducated."

I agree with everything you said. I like the idea that Alex is the babysitter for the other children. It would make sense that the children are being kept in a different place because we didn't see any children in the village where the Others live.

Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread, think I'll jump in.As for Alex, she seems like a loose cannon to me, kind of the "problem child" of the Others. Pickett seemed slightly bemused by her antics, and also seemed like he had seen her do this kind of stuff before. Pickett's treatment of her also indicated that she doesn't have carte blanche when it comes to her movements, which could stem from the fact that she isn't an original Other.

Interesting! I've long suspected that The Others factions indeed might be Original vs. Crispy, erm, DHARMA origins. I believe Ben when he says he's lived on the Island all his life and I've long suspected that he and some of The Others are descedants of Magnus Hanso and the Black Rock crew, while the other faction (Other Others? :)) are from DHARMA. There's a spoiler out that shows a picture in a newspaper article of them shooting a scene with Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) in Miami and William Mapother (Ethan) is in the shot, so they seem to have come to the Island fairly recently.I actually felt sorry for him when he said, "see you in another life."I believe it was actually "see you on the other side", which apparently is something doctors say to patients about to undergo surgery. Imagine if he HAD said "see you in another life", OMG, there'd be 20 threads about the Ben + Others + Desmond connection. :)I feel that Alex was talking about Ben, and not Karl, when she was asking Pickett "what did you do to him?"Nah, I think it ties back to the earlier scene where Alex sneaks up on Kate and asks about Karl. But no, Alex, you little drama queen, Karl's not dead, they're not killers. Duh. :)Is she in a sort of purgatory between Losties and Others?

Ooops. I said the "P" word.[frantically searches for eye bleach] Hahahahaha. Does anyone still believe that theory?And even if Ben is telling the truth and spent his whole life on the island, it doesn't necessarily mean that he literally spent every moment of his life there. Maybe he's left the island and returned.MICHAEL: How do you know I won't tell people about where I was?
BEN: Maybe you will, maybe you won't. But it won't matter. Once you leave, you'll never be able to get back here.

I think this applies to Ben and The Others too; remember, in the Sri Lanka video, Alvar says that the true location of the Island is "known only to myself, the DeGroots, and the few high ranking members of my organization", I seriously doubt Ben and Co. are high enough on the food chain to be privy to that information.I think Ben let him out, gave him access to the gun, let him see Kate and Sawyer together (made a remark to rub it in), and played him...by becoming the play-ee. He gave Jack a gun, an escape, a reason not to save Sawyers life, and an opportunity to shoot him in the head ("guess this is the proverbial nail in my coffin"), all so that Jack would reject it as a trap. Ben seemed taken aback almost at how quickly he got the reaction he wanted from Jack...Excellent analysis of those little scenes! Has it been confirmed by The Whispers Gang (Penyours, RVTurnage and all them) that it was Alex on the intercom? To me, it always sounded like Juliet. Jack's never met Alex before, why would he respond to an unfamiliar voice? In any case, you're right, Ben *was* taken aback. I sometimes think he's a tad disappointed at how easy the Losties are to con. :)

I like the idea that Alex is the babysitter for the other children. It would make sense that the children are being kept in a different place because we didn't see any children in the village where the Others live.

And on the subject of Otherville...I think only the highest-ranking Others are allowed to live there...the doctors, scientists, and engineers.

There are probably lower Others (such as Pickett, Colleen, and Zeke/Tom) who may have their home base on Hydra Island, and they move back and forth between the two islands doing the grunt work. Although Tom's personal accomodations could be a little bit nicer than everyone else's, since he seemed to be Benry's on-island "spokesperson."

Obviously, Juliet, Goodwin, Ethan, Amelia, and Adam (and possibly Miss Klugh) all lived in Otherville as Benry's neighbors. They probably commuted to Hydra Island to work on specific projects.

And on the subject of Otherville...I think only the highest-ranking Others are allowed to live there...the doctors, scientists, and engineers.

Yes, I totally agree. I actually did kind of a frame by frame of the outdoors scenes in ATOTC to see if Tom, Danny and all were there. The African-American woman at the book club was confirmed to be in the group that bagged and tagged Jack, Kate, James and Hugo after they got tasered near the pile of notebooks from The Pearl. Otherwise, didn't see any of "the muscle" in Otherville. Tom and Danny probably would be declined membership at the Otherville Country Club too. :) There are probably lower Others (such as Pickett, Colleen, and Zeke/Tom) who may have their home base on Hydra Island, and they move back and forth between the two islands doing the grunt work. Although Tom's personal accomodations could be a little bit nicer than everyone else's, since he seemed to be Benry's on-island "spokesperson."Yes, I very much get a vibe of hierarchy amongst The Others, between the brains and the hired muscle. Something in Penyours/RV Turnage's transcript of Ben speaking at Colleen's funeral had me wondering:As we prepare to send Colleen on her way I¹d like to take a moment for all the...everyone here...{cut}...whose I can take/truth is I can take...From the moment she set foot on this island she prevented... {cut} can't help her...Can¹t remember feeling anything but safe when she¹s... We will be hobbled, yes. It's quite the effort...{cut}...peculiar area for her...{cut}...as she always has... {music starts}The part I bolded gives me a feeling of "Colleen came to the Island(s) recently", that she was imported from the outside, sort of like Kelvin came to DHARMA long after it had started.Obviously, Juliet, Goodwin, Ethan, Amelia, and Adam (and possibly Miss Klugh) all lived in Otherville as Benry's neighbors. They probably commuted to Hydra Island to work on specific projects.But...but....you're accepting that there's actually a second Island and not that it's all a lie by Ben to play with James.

:D :biggrin:

The African-American woman at the book club was confirmed to be in the group that bagged and tagged Jack, Kate, James and Hugo after they got tasered near the pile of notebooks from The Pearl.

Has there been an official confirmation that April Grace ("Miss Klugh," the character you're thinking of) actually appeared in the opening scene of ATOTC?

I thought Damon and Carlton said that April Grace hadn't been able to make it to Hawaii to film any Season 3 episodes yet, because she was doing a play? So how could she have appeared in ATOTC?

Has there been an official confirmation that April Grace ("Miss Klugh," the character you're thinking of) actually appeared in the opening scene of ATOTC?

I thought Damon and Carlton said that April Grace hadn't been able to make it to Hawaii to film any Season 3 episodes yet, because she was doing a play? So how could she have appeared in ATOTC?

Nothing official but the black woman in the book club does not look like Ms Klugh, even though many said it initially. (unless you are thinking of another scene.

Nothing official but the black woman in the book club does not look like Ms Klugh, even though many said it initiallyNo, Book Woman Club doesn't look anything like Bea Klugh, because she's one of the people that bag and tag Jack and Kate after they get tasered by the pile of Pearl notebooks in LTDA. Look at that scene and the last person we see before the blackout (i.e. the bag going over Jack or Kate's head) is the same woman as at the Bookclub.

No, Book Woman Club doesn't look anything like Bea Klugh, because she's one of the people that bag and tag Jack and Kate after they get tasered by the pile of Pearl notebooks in LTDA. Look at that scene and the last person we see before the blackout (i.e. the bag going over Jack or Kate's head) is the same woman as at the Bookclub.

Are you arguing with me? Because I'm saying that exact same thing you are, that the book club women IS NOT ms Klugh.

Are you arguing with me? Because I'm saying that exact same thing you are, that the book club women IS NOT ms Klugh.Um, calm down Penyours. I was agreeing with you and pointing out who Book Club Lady actually was. Jeebus.

Um, calm down Penyours. I was agreeing with you and pointing out who Book Club Lady actually was. Jeebus.

oops :redface:

Wait, I thought Miss Klugh *WAS* the black woman who puts the bag over Jack's head after he's tasered (whom we can see from Jack's blurry perspective)?