When Ben was in surgery it was said that Sheppard was not on Jacobs list?

Who is Jacob?

Is Jacob the real HIM? And why is Jacob making the list, weren't Ethan and Goodwin supposed to make them?

Or is he from the Foundation?

I gotta say, I always thought it was just a little too easy of a reveal that Ben was "Him," even though they never outright said it. So, perhaps Jacob really is the real "Him."

Febuary is 108 years away at the moment

Maybe Jacob is Patchy??

a very interesting twist they threw in there. jacob could be something huge or another ethan-goodwin type. who knows. i'm a bit curious exactly what kinda list it is. who was on the list? good people or bad people.

Could be whoever decided the plane should crash on the island? But that would be funny if Jack wasn't even meant to be on that plane.
Or the real name for Ethan?? But at the beginning of ATOTC Ben called him Ethan...

He could also be Patchy

Is it possible that Jacob is one of the Losties going by a different name? Of course why would they change their name, nobody would know the difference... except for us that is.

. . . and how old is this list? Was Jack merely a spine surgeon who happened to fall from the sky? That line still kills me from last week.

Ooo could be Patchy!!

If Jack isn't on the list then who exactly is?

Maybe Juliet has been acting on the orders of Jacob as a way of testing Jack to see if he could be trusted. Maybe Ben is considered a necessary sacrifice by Jacob if Jacob is the “He” we’re talking about.

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard that "Sheppard was the only one on the list". I thought they were using this to justify killing Sawyer, since he wasn't on the list he must be a "bad person" so he was alright to kill. My impression was that this Jacob guy is an Ethan/Goodwin type. So does this mean we have a mole within the Losties? hmm....

Funny how all the Whispers (penyours and lostlaura)have said it could be Patchy!! At the same time...what are you guys hearing that we are not??? :))

Lost ?

OK, so I see it as : the list = the list given to Michael for who to bring back. Ben obviously couldn't have made the list himself since he was in captivity at the Hatch (though I guess it could be said that he communicated with the rest of the Others and told them who to bring?), so the list was possibly made up by this Jacob fellow - "Him" or maybe just another high-ranking Other we haven't met yet. And perhaps the original list only included Kate, Sawyer & Hurley and Jack was added by ??? only to help out Ben, and Ben's apparent ruse to get Jack to operate wasn't part of the original plan of the list. Perhaps this has something to do with the two sides of Others TPTB have been hinting at?

I could be totally way off base, but hey, we've got til February to work this one over, eh? ;)

Could Jacob be Ben's real name? When we first met him he said he was Henry Gale, from Minnesota - both lies. When he introduced himself to Jack he was Benjamin Linus, lived on the island all my life. I wonder if he's lying again about his name?

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard that "Sheppard was the only one on the list". I thought they were using this to justify killing Sawyer, since he wasn't on the list he must be a "bad person" so he was alright to kill. .

Actually we should confirm this, personally i didn't have my speakers attached to the tv, and the built-in ones are cruddy so I didn't hear it that well.


Funny how all the Whispers (penyours and lostlaura)have said it could be Patchy!! At the same time...what are you guys hearing that we are not??? :))

hehe well diablo, that intercom static did go on for a long time, not sure what could have been said :biggrin:

I'm fairly certain that Tom said that Ben put his life in the hands of one of them, And Sheppard is not even on Jacob's list.

I assumed the list that Tom was refering to is the same old list the others have been making reference to all along. The list that the others say is the list of good people.

Also, I thought I heard Juliet say to Pickett at the dig sight "I called him" somewhere in those lines when they were talking that it was happening now, not in 2 weeks, when Pickett said that to do it now was stupid. So if that's right maybe Juliet is the one getting the info from Jacob.

Jacob is another bible reference. I thought it might be Goodwin's first name, since Ethan and Goodwin were sent out for lists. Then I remembered Goodwin never met the fuselage losties.

Also, Jacob's ladder is the ladder to Heaven. It's been along time since bible study but didn't Jacob dream of God giving him land for his children and children's children. (Something that it appears the Other's can't have)

When I heard this, I immediately thought of Jacob Vanderfield (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jacob_Vanderfield) from the Hanso Foundation, as covered by TLE (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/forumdisplay.php?f=289)this summer. They didn't cover a heck of a lot about him, but he is a member of the board of directors.
There could definitely be no connection, but it is a not-so-random possibilty.

Jacob is another bible reference. I thought it might be Goodwin's first name, since Ethan and Goodwin were sent out for lists. Then I remembered Goodwin never met the fuselage losties.

Also, Jacob's ladder is the ladder to Heaven. It's been along time since bible study but didn't Jacob dream of God giving him land for his children and children's children. (Something that it appears the Other's can't have)

That would make Jacob, Bens father. his 12th son.

Well maybe when Ethan failed they sent someone else.

Could be Goodwin's first name, but I didn't get that vibe from the statement. Seems to me that this person is above Ben, and Ben is the on-island general or something. It would be great if this were a Hanso person.

Oh, and why do whispers people think it is patchy? Probably because of all the hidden voices in smokey and the island animals. It makes us think someone is controlling them. And patchy is a convenient mysterious figure....

OOhh and if I remember right didn't Jacob lie and trick his brother to get his father's blessings? (Daddy issues)

Jacob is latest mystery in a long line of mysteries on lost. We will never find out the answer to all of these questions.

For now, sign me up to the Jacob = Mr. Eyepatch Club! :D

That would make Jacob, Bens father. his 12th son.

OOhhhhh!!! Didn't Ben's mother, one of Jacob's sister wives, die in childbirth. Also didn't she have fertility problems, so she gave Jacob handmaids to have children for her.

I tried posting this, but the server got too busy and kicked me out. I'll try again:

Am I missing something? Isn't Goodwin dead?

Is it possible that Jacob is one of the Losties going by a different name? Of course why would they change their name, nobody would know the difference... except for us that is.

Well maybe when Ethan failed they sent someone else.

My guess is that Jacob doesn't refer to a man in charge, it refers to any subordinate that was ordered to make a list. We know Ethan never completed a list, so I like the idea that another mole may have mixed in early to take his place and complete the task. Hurley only checked everyone against the manifest once. After Ethan was killed, someone new could have slipped in and it's likely no one would have noticed. So maybe there's still a mole in the camp. Could Paulo be Jacob?

I think there is resentment within the Others' group growing over the fact that Ben went through a lot of trouble to get Jack when he wasn't part of their main mission and has nothing to do with what the Others are really up to.

Maybe Jacob is Nikki?

I think that it's a stretch to think that an other could be amongst the fusies. They checked the manifest, and have stated a number of times the number of people that that survived, subtracting them as they died.

I don't think Jacob is on the island. And referring to it as "Jacob's list" doesn't necessarily mean he wrote it--it could have just been his idea.

I always thought the "good ones" were determined by the smoke monster, like when it "scanned" Eko and could then determine whether or not his past actions make him "good". But that would mean the others contol or at the very least can communicate with the monster. So then, perhaps the smoke monster is Jacob. An acronym perhaps?

I always thought the "good ones" were determined by the smoke monster, like when it "scanned" Eko and could then determine whether or not his past actions make him "good". But that would mean the others contol or at the very least can communicate with the monster. So then, perhaps the smoke monster is Jacob. An acronym perhaps?

Oooohh. I love it!

If Jacob is on the island, then that is a great explanation!

But didn't Juliet say something earlier to Pickett at the work site about calling him, and that was the plan, we do it now? If Juliet is calling someone to get orders, it might make it easier to point to Jacob being a higher up off of the island.

Did anyone catch that speech between Julit and Pickett? Might not be refering to Jacob in it, but I'd love to know exactly what was said!

Also, sign me up for Jacob= Patchman!

Hmmm... I'm thinking Jacob = Paulo. Now that would be a good reason for adding him to the cast, wouldn't it? ;)

I always thought the "good ones" were determined by the smoke monster, like when it "scanned" Eko and could then determine whether or not his past actions make him "good". But that would mean the others contol or at the very least can communicate with the monster. So then, perhaps the smoke monster is Jacob. An acronym perhaps?

I like this idea as well. So, could Patchy control Smokey/JACOB, and then download the list to everyone else?

I think the Biblical reference is intentional, but I'm not sure it means "Jacob" is a superior of Ben's or just another flunkie (seen or unseen). It wouldn't be surprising if TPTB snuck an important bit of info in seemingly unimportant dialouge. IMO it stands to reason that Ben isn't the main authority. His agenda appears too narrow. The more I think about it, the more it appears that he's using people and circumstance to take care of himself when the Losties are supposed to serve a differant (read: higher) purpose. That could indicate that Kate and Sawyer were the real prize and Jack was brought along to serve Ben's selfish agenda. Jacob might not be too pleased with this turn of events (if he's "him" or someone else in authority).

The biblical Jacob was the con artist who got conned. He conned Esau out of the blessing and birthright with the help of his mother. He fled for his life to a land where he met a beautiful woman he wanted to marry. He worked for her father for 7 years to get her, then got tricked by her father into marrying her older sister. Then he had to work 7 more years to get the sister he wanted to begin with. The beautiful sister's children were Joseph and Benjamin. FWIW.

I am loving the biblical references. Especially with Benjamin being another character and the fertility issues of Jacob's wife Rachel. These tie in so well with Juliet being a fertility doctor and all the other religious aspects of the show. Abraham, Jacob and Joseph were the fathers of Isreal. Can't wait to see where this leads.

I think that it's a stretch to think that an other could be amongst the fusies. They checked the manifest, and have stated a number of times the number of people that that survived, subtracting them as they died.

Henry Gale was a name of someone on the island, it just wasn't Ben's real name.

Don

What I dont undersatnd is why it matters that Jack was not on the list -- wjat exactly did Pickett say?

I've always believed that the many of the passengers on Flight 815 were manipulated in some way to be on the plane. The flashbacks with Libby last season seemed to suggest that she had a hand in orchestrating Desmond, Eko and obviously Hurley's destinies. I'm not sure why each of them would be desired by Jacob (or whomever.) Perhaps there was a master list of who needed to be on Flight 815 to serve whatever ends Jacob is seeking and Jack was not one of them.

Or maybe this Jacob is the person in the outside world who gathered the dossiers on each of the Losties and then compiled a list of who was a candidate for conversion to Otherness. Jack's a stubborn SOB with trust issues. I don't think he would be on that list.

It also curious that Pickett said Shepherd, not Jack. The Others have always refered to him as Jack. Maybe he was refering to Christian? That coffin is still empty...

Back to the point -- so Jack is not on the list. Why kill Sawyer? Just for kicks? Why not wait 'til the surgery's over and kill Jack before Ben wakes up?

What I dont undersatnd is why it matters that Jack was not on the list -- wjat exactly did Pickett say?

Pickett indicated that Shephard (Jack) wasn't on Jacob's list. I'm not 100% sure what the import of that statement is, but it could mean that Jack wasn't originally supposed to be on the list Ms. Klugh gave Michael. That has huge implications. That COULD mean that Kate and Sawyer were the real prize and Ben was operating on his own where Jack was concerned (in order to save himself).

Who's on first, what's on second?
The citizens of Otherville are NOT an organized political entity. They're even worse than the Losties.

So many lists: Ethan's, Goodwin's, the list of 9 tailies, Michael's, Jacob's!

-Ben is apparently defying someone by bringing Jack over.
-Juliet is apparently scheming against Ben. She's following someone's orders, might be Ben's or might be someone else's.
-Alex is a loose cannonball, but is seemingly liked or at least tolerated by everyone despite all her sheningans. Is she royalty or something?
-Pickett is a born minion and order-follower who is chafing at following Ben's orders. Mr. Friendly seems to be the only one keeping him in line.
-Mr. Friendly seems loyal to Ben. He's a diplomat and peace keeper. God knows they need one.

Pickett indicated that Shephard (Jack) wasn't on Jacob's list. I'm not 100% sure what the import of that statement is, but it could mean that Jack wasn't originally supposed to be on the list Ms. Klugh gave Michael. That has huge implications. That COULD mean that Kate and Sawyer were the real prize and Ben was operating on his own where Jack was concerned (in order to save himself).

Thanks for the recap.

I still dont understand why Pickett killing Sawyer is related to Jack not being on the list.

I've always believed that the many of the passengers on Flight 815 were manipulated in some way to be on the plane. The flashbacks with Libby last season seemed to suggest that she had a hand in orchestrating Desmond, Eko and obviously Hurley's destinies. I'm not sure why each of them would be desired by Jacob (or whomever.) Perhaps there was a master list of who needed to be on Flight 815 to serve whatever ends Jacob is seeking and Jack was not one of them.

Or maybe this Jacob is the person in the outside world who gathered the dossiers on each of the Losties and then compiled a list of who was a candidate for conversion to Otherness. Jack's a stubborn SOB with trust issues. I don't think he would be on that list.

It also curious that Pickett said Shepherd, not Jack. The Others have always refered to him as Jack. Maybe he was refering to Christian? That coffin is still empty...

Back to the point -- so Jack is not on the list. Why kill Sawyer? Just for kicks? Why not wait 'til the surgery's over and kill Jack before Ben wakes up?

I'm starting to wonder as well if Jack is the real wild card here. What if someone (perhaps with a gift of foresight) was able to manipulate events to get Jack on the flight-knowing that he alone would be able to foil whatever nefarious plot is afoot?

I also think we're seeing the Others carefully maintained society of virtual zombies unravel. The concept of freewill has been commented on several times by Juliet-and I think that goes against the Others collective purpose. Not only is Juliet thinking outside the box, but Pickett (killing Sawyer is not supposed to be in the cards I imagine), and perhaps Ben (I get the impression that his attempts at self-preservation isn't exactly official Others policy either).

Pickett indicated that Shephard (Jack) wasn't on Jacob's list. I'm not 100% sure what the import of that statement is, but it could mean that Jack wasn't originally supposed to be on the list Ms. Klugh gave Michael. That has huge implications. That COULD mean that Kate and Sawyer were the real prize and Ben was operating on his own where Jack was concerned (in order to save himself).

Excellent point -- I forgot about Ms. Klugh's list. That makes a lot of sense. They're clearly distinguishing this list from the initial lists of Goodwin and Ethan. Very interesting. What could they have wanted Kate and Sawyer for? And why would they readily kill Sawyer in that case?

Thanks for the recap.

I still dont understand why Pickett killing Sawyer is related to Jack not being on the list.

I guess it doesn't. Pickett merely saw an opportunity to kill Sawyer while Ben was incapacited. He doesn't seem to trust Jack either.
100%
Excellent point -- I forgot about Ms. Klugh's list. That makes a lot of sense. They're clearly distinguishing this list from the initial lists of Goodwin and Ethan. Very interesting. What could they have wanted Kate and Sawyer for? And why would they readily kill Sawyer in that case?


Not "they", but "he". Pickett is the one that wanted to kill Sawyer, and I think it was for revenge for the death of his wife (Colleen). Pickett was clearly operating on his own in this situation. That's not to say that Sawyer wouldn't be killed eventually, but I don't think his usefullness to the Others had been exhausted yet.

Hmmm... I'm thinking Jacob = Paulo. Now that would be a good reason for adding him to the cast, wouldn't it? ;)

Not even THAT would be a good enough reason;) .

In the Old Testament, Jacob (later called Israel) was the son of Isaac and Rebecca and the father of the twelve founders of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jacob's list has GOT to be from before the crash, Ben knew he needed spinal surgery just before the plane arrived. If it were the list made by the others who posed as losties, a spinal surgeon would have been at the TOP of any list of who was needed. If the list were made before they got on the plane, a spinal surgeon would be unnecessary, as Ben wasn't sick yet.

Maybe it's just me, but I got the impression that Jacob (or possibly Jacobs) was someone's last name, especially since he called Jack by his last name in the same sentence.

If the Jacob(s) is a last name it could be anyone--well anyone who's last name we don't know. Maybe even Juliet (do we know her last name?).

BTW, Rachel didn't have fertility problems, although she bore Jacob only two sons (Joseph and Benjamin) that he loved more than Leah's ten sons because he loved Rachel more than Leah.

It was Sarah who was thought to be barren before an angelic visit allowed her to give birth to Isaac even though she thought she was past her child-bearing years.

Cardie

Jacob's list has GOT to be from before the crash, Ben knew he needed spinal surgery just before the plane arrived. If it were the list made by the others who posed as losties, a spinal surgeon would have been at the TOP of any list of who was needed. If the list were made before they got on the plane, a spinal surgeon would be unnecessary, as Ben wasn't sick yet.

Are you suggesting that Jack's inclusion on Oceanic Flight 815 was planned by someone? If that's the case it's a hell of a way to get a spinal surgeon to the Island! I'm more inclined to believe that Goodwin and Ethan brought back complete lists of the survivors, and the Others (perhaps with guidance from Jacob) decided who they needed based on that info (no doubt enhanced by their outside sources that provided complete bios).

We saw that in play with the select few that were snatched from amongst the tailies and who who named to the list that Ms. Klugh supplied Michael. I think Jack's role was orchestrated purely for the benefit of Ben by Ben. He was acting as a lone wolf in order to save his own life.

jacob is also a name in the Bible

OOhhhhh!!! Didn't Ben's mother, one of Jacob's sister wives, die in childbirth. Also didn't she have fertility problems, so she gave Jacob handmaids to have children for her.

It was always easy to confuse the Abraham-Isaac-Jacob line...Benjamin was born of the wife Jacob really wanted-Rachel, as was his older broter Joseph. Joseph was considered the favorite (first child of favorite wife Rachel) with Benjamin closely following.

Jack was on the manifest and was always there, so I don't think they are referring to the lists made by Goodwin and Ethan. I think "Jacob", whoever that is, made the list of people to "collect". Jack wasn't on that list. Ben added him to bring him to do the surgery.

If Jacob is an Other, hidden among the Losties would he have gotten a Flashback?

Don

The only list with jack on it was the one made by Bea (miss klugh) who gave it to michael. Now if the others all want ben to live, they would definatly want jack, so he could operate. So ben had planned for jack to be brought back, but whoever jacob is, he didn't want ben to live. Jacob also has to rank higher than ben, espically if he can make new lists about who to bring. And a sudden though just hit me. Theyonly said "shepard wasn't even on the list" what if they mean christian shepard? He could of been alive, or dead and they brought him back regardless of the list? Just a thought.

I So then, perhaps the smoke monster is Jacob. An acronym perhaps?


Darn you got my mind going into overdrive thinking what it could possibly be now :biggrin: but i like the thought that the list may not be an actual list but mabey a selection from a program (Smokey?) of who is good and who is bad .

Okay people - this wasn't that confusing.
Pickett said that, though Jack was on Jacob's list, the other two were not (Kate and Sawyer). This gave him added justification to kill Sawyer.

We have not met Jacob yet, but presumably, based on how the list was referenced, it was the replacement list for the one Ethan was supposed to make. But how did the Beach aquire another mole? When the tail survivors arrived, the extra other blended in with the beach folk, who were expecting a few 'new' people. Notice how the Tailies more or less seperated once they hit the beach- Bernard, Eko, Libby and Ana were barely ever shown together - thus creating an plausible alibi for Jacob to tell the Beach survivors that were out of "the loop", since most people didn't have the opportunity (or need) to go up to another tailie or Sawyer or Michael to verify. And now this verification is nearly impossible, with most of the remaining tailies having died, Michael gone, Sawyer imprisoned, and the rest 'taken'.

Jacob is not Him.

Pickett indicated that Shephard (Jack) wasn't on Jacob's list. I'm not 100% sure what the import of that statement is, but it could mean that Jack wasn't originally supposed to be on the list Ms. Klugh gave Michael. That has huge implications. That COULD mean that Kate and Sawyer were the real prize and Ben was operating on his own where Jack was concerned (in order to save himself).

I think the "list" is an original list that was made when the plane first went down. The Others were taking a lot of people from the Tailies group (first three, then nine). I think that's the list that Pickett was referring to when he was talking. ALso, no one was taken during THP when Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Kate, etc. met up with the Others in the jungle. I think it answers the question of why they didn't take Jack, Kate, and Sawyer then. They were not part of the original list.

Jack, however, was clearly on the list that Ms. Kluch gave to Michael. This list was a separate agenda. I'm guessing the Others who are close to Ben wanted to do whatever they had to do in order to save him. Jack was the main person of interest on that particular list, and Kate and Sawyer were the "manipulation" tools.

Whatever the main list is that Pickett talked about has not yet been revealed - either who's on the list or the purpose of same. Alas, another mystery.

I think the "list" is an original list that was made when the plane first went down. The Others were taking a lot of people from the Tailies group (first three, then nine). I think that's the list that Pickett was referring to when he was talking. ALso, no one was taken during THP when Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Kate, etc. met up with the Others in the jungle. I think it answers the question of why they didn't take Jack, Kate, and Sawyer then. They were not part of the original list.

Jack, however, was clearly on the list that Ms. Kluch gave to Michael. This list was a separate agenda. I'm guessing the Others who are close to Ben wanted to do whatever they had to do in order to save him. Jack was the main person of interest on that particular list, and Kate and Sawyer were the "manipulation" tools.

Whatever the main list is that Pickett talked about has not yet been revealed - either who's on the list or the purpose of same. Alas, another mystery.

There was no intitial list. The first night at the tailies camp, they tried to negate the large, strong members, so that they would have no trouble controlling the rest.

Ben's regime needs a face-to-face operative to make these lists for some reason. whether they are drawing blood at night, swabbing things for DNA, or just observing how "good" people are. This was the point of Goodwin and Ethan. Ethen died before finishing his duties, so then Jacob had to complete the Beachside list.

Okay people - this wasn't that confusing.
Pickett said that, though Jack was on Jacob's list, the other two were not (Kate and Sawyer). This gave him added justification to kill Sawyer.


Klalkis, Pickett's line was "Shephard wasn't even on Jacob's list". He didn't mention Kate or Sawyer. The implication is they were but we don't even know that.
100%

Ben's regime needs a face-to-face operative to make these lists for some reason. whether they are drawing blood at night, swabbing things for DNA, or just observing how "good" people are. This was the point of Goodwin and Ethan. Ethen died before finishing his duties, so then Jacob had to complete the Beachside list.

They had the hairbrushes & combs for initial dna testing.
It's a good spec that they still needed an onsite person to complete Ethan's list (so they'd have names & other info to begin to match to the dna samples). That person would of necessity have had to be there from almost the beginning. Now I see why folks are thinking Paolo or Nikki. I'm not there yet, but it could work.
100%

Jack, however, was clearly on the list that Ms. Kluch gave to Michael. This list was a separate agenda. I'm guessing the Others who are close to Ben wanted to do whatever they had to do in order to save him. Jack was the main person of interest on that particular list, and Kate and Sawyer were the "manipulation" tools.


I think you've nailed this list, and we can put it to rest..

anyone else think the name is referencing this?

Jacob's Pillar Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_scone)

.....the meteorite that is similar to Pandora's Box. (light, hope, curiosity, sickness, crater, stars, Black Rock)

I think Jacob may be the guy with eyepatch...
He who watches the watchers.
:biggrin:

"Patchy" is Radinsky. Desmond has said before that Radinsky had a glass eye, ana lucia found the eye in the arrow station.

Jacob is an Other that we haven't met yet.

I think the "list" is an original list that was made when the plane first went down. The Others were taking a lot of people from the Tailies group (first three, then nine). I think that's the list that Pickett was referring to when he was talking. ALso, no one was taken during THP when Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Kate, etc. met up with the Others in the jungle. I think it answers the question of why they didn't take Jack, Kate, and Sawyer then. They were not part of the original list.

Jack, however, was clearly on the list that Ms. Kluch gave to Michael. This list was a separate agenda. I'm guessing the Others who are close to Ben wanted to do whatever they had to do in order to save him. Jack was the main person of interest on that particular list, and Kate and Sawyer were the "manipulation" tools.

Whatever the main list is that Pickett talked about has not yet been revealed - either who's on the list or the purpose of same. Alas, another mystery.

So you think there are at least three lists that were created?

* The initial list of names that Ben requested from Goodwin and Ethan.

* The list that Ms. Klugh.

* The list (Jacob's) that Pickett referenced that "Shephard wasn't on."

That's a fair take, although I still think it's possible Pickett was referring to the list Ms. Klugh gave Michael. If so, that would mean Ben and his cronies were possibly operating outside of a larger agenda.

Jacob's list has GOT to be from before the crash, Ben knew he needed spinal surgery just before the plane arrived. If it were the list made by the others who posed as losties, a spinal surgeon would have been at the TOP of any list of who was needed. If the list were made before they got on the plane, a spinal surgeon would be unnecessary, as Ben wasn't sick yet.

Can someone please help me out here ,something that doesn't quite fit ,if Ben knew he needed spinal surgery when the plane crashed down and i guess they have had the x-ray machine all alone ,and the x-ray photo was only a week old ......why has it taken them nearly a month to get Ben checked out?

"Patchy" is Radinsky. Desmond has said before that Radinsky had a glass eye, ana lucia found the eye in the arrow station.

Jacob is an Other that we haven't met yet.

Radinski is dead. Desmond was told by Kelvin that Radinski made the film edits, nothing about a glass eye, though we did find the glass eye with the film splices.

I'll have to watch the scene again, but I got the impression that the "he wasn't even on Jacob's list" was refering to Sawyer. The other Other knew he wanted to kill Sawyer out of revenge for Colleen and was trying to stop him. It just makes sense. How would Jack not being on Jacob's list justify him going out and killing sawyer while Ben is under the knife?

Regardless, I'm believing Jacob is the real "Him", and his list is derived from the lists they were able to gather from Goodwin and whomever for the Losties (someone had to do it since the Others had information on them). This is how I see it played out. Jacob tells Ben that whenever anyone comes to the Island (whether through manipulation or not, that's a different argument), it's Ben's job to get a list of the people on the island. Once that list or lists is obtained, they're given to Jacob for "judgment" to determine who's good and who's bad. In corporate terminology Jacob's the Director, Ben's the operations Manager. Ben sends his people out to get the intel that Jacob wants. To what purpose the people are judged, that's one of the $64,000 questions...

Can someone please help me out here ,something that doesn't quite fit ,if Ben knew he needed spinal surgery when the plane crashed down and i guess they have had the x-ray machine all alone ,and the x-ray photo was only a week old ......why has it taken them nearly a month to get Ben checked out?

I didn't think it was established that he knew he needed surgery right around when the plane crashed. It was, however pointed out that his x-rays were about a week old which would explain the chain of events leading up to the "operation" on Ben.

It could be Jacobs' list, rather than Jacob's list.
I think it's Ethan Jacobs, since he was dispatched to Jack's beach to make a list, and since he gave a fake last name to the losties.

I'll have to watch the scene again, but I got the impression that the "he wasn't even on Jacob's list" was refering to Sawyer. The other Other knew he wanted to kill Sawyer out of revenge for Colleen and was trying to stop him. It just makes sense. How would Jack not being on Jacob's list justify him going out and killing sawyer while Ben is under the knife?

Regardless, I'm believing Jacob is the real "Him", and his list is derived from the lists they were able to gather from Goodwin and whomever for the Losties (someone had to do it since the Others had information on them). This is how I see it played out. Jacob tells Ben that whenever anyone comes to the Island (whether through manipulation or not, that's a different argument), it's Ben's job to get a list of the people on the island. Once that list or lists is obtained, they're given to Jacob for "judgment" to determine who's good and who's bad. In corporate terminology Jacob's the Director, Ben's the operations Manager. Ben sends his people out to get the intel that Jacob wants. To what purpose the people are judged, that's one of the $64,000 questions...

Remeber: Ethan didn't finish his list before he ran into the Claire situation. You are assuming that a list was still made by another one of them, then given consideration by "Him" (who we still don't know exists on the island). If we further assume your situation to be correct, and Pickett was refering to the "Final List of Losties", wouldn't he have used "His list" or "Our list", because if it has been signed off by the top dog, it becomes property of the commune, rather than someone's personal opinion (remember the talk about Ana being questionable, Goodwin's list was his personal opinion, apparently).

You are adding an extra layer of complexity, inventing an intermediate neccessity, and from the context of your theory, the scene was written awkward.

1. Oceanic Flight 815 breaks apart over the island. Ben sends Ethan Rom to blend in with the fuselage survivors and make a list of what we assume are the "good people" (ATOTC)
2. Before Ethan can complete his list he is rumbled by Hurley's census. Ethan takes Claire. (RBA) We can assume that Claire was taken because she was with child and the Others want the kids, ala Walt.
3. The Others lure Michael out for information about Walt. They do not take Jack, Kate, or Sawyer when they have them at gun point in the jungle. (THP)
4. The Others give Michael a list with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley on it. (3M)

I don't think that Jacob's list is a reference to the list Michael got, for the simple reason that Jack was on that list and that whole plan was an attempt by Ben to get Jack to operate on him. Why would he have been added to a list that was designed to get him in the first place?

Ethan never got to complete his list, so either Jacob's list is Ethan's incomplete list or someone elses. So, Jacob's list could be a reference to: Ethan's real last name, another mole in the camp,the Other's name for Smokey, or someone whe haven't met yet's list (Patchy).

Why would Ethan give Hurley a fake last name? I don't know, maybe he likes anagrams? I think the "mole" theory is much more viable. Maybe they conned/threatened an existing Lostaway into cooperating with them. Paulo? As for the Smokey theory, I think it could be, but I got the feeling that the Others were afraid of Smokey. They had much easier access to the Tailies, and the Tailies never saw it on their side of the island. I thought that was because the Others had settled in a place where it wouldn't/couldn't go. I don't think it is Patchy's list. I don't know why, but I see him more as a free radical on the island, like Danielle. Plus, if he was in league with the Others, then why didn't they have him make the list in the first place? I assumed that the Others had to get someone face to face with the survivors to tell who was a "good person".

Also, if Ben's tumor is real, then they would almost have to have learned that Jack is a spinal surgeon after The Hunting Party episode.

Thanks Rabidranger was only going on the quote of another post ,couldnt rightly remember any point where it was said about Ben knowing he needed surgery ,before the week past when the x-ray was taken.just didnt make sense to me ,wasn't sure if i'd missed something,thought Ben said he found out about his tumor 2 days before the crash or something like that but mabey im wrong...cheers

Edit: Also if the Other's are as afraid of smokey as the losties are that would tie in with smokey mabey being Jacob and only being able to sort good from bad (picking the list) with the othes not being the good people they keep saying they are even though it may be them or thier superior's contoling it....i know it's a long shot but hey ho.

Dr_Gonzo

ya i think jacob is patchy at first but after i think about it more, i think its him. well maybe hes both...

It could be Jacobs' list, rather than Jacob's list.
I think it's Ethan Jacobs, since he was dispatched to Jack's beach to make a list, and since he gave a fake last name to the losties.


Could be, but the Others have a distinct habit of referring to fellow Others by their first names. That's why I think it's Jacob's instead of Jacobs'. It's also a way of seperating the familiar from the enemy. In Pickett's comment, he was drawing a distinction between someone that's an ally (Jacob) and someone who is an enemy (Shephard).

My friend thinks Jacob is patchy, but I think it's an as-yet-undiscovered infiltrator still hanging out with the Losties.

I don't think Jack was on the list because he is not a "bad guy." I think Benry added jack to the list for the selfish reason of his surgery.

Perhaps Jacob is Patchy, and he is controlling things behind the scenes; always another layer of onion to peel away.

The guy behind the buy behind the guy.

Prospero

Let me not,
Since I have my dukedom got
And pardon'd the deceiver, dwell
In this bare island by your spell;
But release me from my bands
Shakespeare's The Tempest

"Patchy" is Radinsky. Desmond has said before that Radinsky had a glass eye, ana lucia found the eye in the arrow station.

Jacob is an Other that we haven't met yet.

too many things point to Radinsky being dead
GN even confirmed it...not that I always believe him,
but i do on this one.

I'll have to watch the scene again, but I got the impression that the "he wasn't even on Jacob's list" was refering to Sawyer. The other Other knew he wanted to kill Sawyer out of revenge for Colleen and was trying to stop him. It just makes sense. How would Jack not being on Jacob's list justify him going out and killing sawyer while Ben is under the knife?

Regardless, I'm believing Jacob is the real "Him", and his list is derived from the lists they were able to gather from Goodwin and whomever for the Losties (someone had to do it since the Others had information on them). This is how I see it played out. Jacob tells Ben that whenever anyone comes to the Island (whether through manipulation or not, that's a different argument), it's Ben's job to get a list of the people on the island. Once that list or lists is obtained, they're given to Jacob for "judgment" to determine who's good and who's bad. In corporate terminology Jacob's the Director, Ben's the operations Manager. Ben sends his people out to get the intel that Jacob wants. To what purpose the people are judged, that's one of the $64,000 questions...

The line was "Sheppard's not even on Jacob's list"
so Sawyer has nothing to do with it,
mind you i did only watch it once,
but I thought it was established that Pickett said Sheppard

But i do agree, I believe that Jacob will end up being the real HIM

or maybe the Polar Bear's name is Jacob?
:biggrin:

Okay people - this wasn't that confusing.
Pickett said that, though Jack was on Jacob's list, the other two were not (Kate and Sawyer). This gave him added justification to kill Sawyer.


.

But you got it confused:biggrin:

That was not the context. The context was Ben's life was in the hands of Jack--and because Jack was not on the list--Jack was not "good"..so there was no reason to presume Jack would save Ben... and no reason to hold up the bargan(according to Pickett's reasoning).

Thats not a guess. That was the context. They were not hiding anything there.

Febuary is 108 years away at the moment


You could always freeze yourself and have someone thaw you out in a few months....sorry wrong show.

...Could Paulo be Jacob?

I think there is resentment within the Others' group growing over the fact that Ben went through a lot of trouble to get Jack when he wasn't part of their main mission and has nothing to do with what the Others are really up to.

I wondered about that, Pace. It could be that somehow he was "turned" after he arrived on the island and has been promised riches and a way off the island when his assignment is through.

I think that it's a stretch to think that an other could be amongst the fusies. They checked the manifest, and have stated a number of times the number of people that that survived, subtracting them as they died.

See what I think above. We now know that Paolo was resentful that he hasn't been included in the boar hunts, hatch blowings, etc. or at least he's acted that he resented the leaders.

I think the Biblical reference is intentional, but I'm not sure it means "Jacob" is a superior of Ben's or just another flunkie (seen or unseen). It wouldn't be surprising if TPTB snuck an important bit of info in seemingly unimportant dialouge. IMO it stands to reason that Ben isn't the main authority. His agenda appears too narrow. The more I think about it, the more it appears that he's using people and circumstance to take care of himself when the Losties are supposed to serve a differant (read: higher) purpose. That could indicate that Kate and Sawyer were the real prize and Jack was brought along to serve Ben's selfish agenda. Jacob might not be too pleased with this turn of events (if he's "him" or someone else in authority).

It does seem the Others resent Sawyer and Kate more than Jack. To me, that could connote that they were more important so I think you have a good idea there.
As far as I can tell, three people wanted Benry to have the surgery - Benry, for obvious reasons; Juliet so that Benry could be done away with without getting her in trouble with the other Others (:)); and Tom/Zeke who I think may be Benry's brother.
It's obvious that Pickett really doesn't care whether Benry lives or dies and he sure doesn't respect Benry. I am wondering why he's in the heirarchy of the Others? Is he another brother of Benry's? Maybe one who thinks he would be a much better leader than Benry? The reason I'm asking is that it seems Pickett has access to a really important list - possibly the list of "Him". Hotheads like him are usually not allowed access to such sensitive material unless it's a matter of birth or coattail riding.

Who's on first, what's on second?
The citizens of Otherville are NOT an organized political entity. They're even worse than the Losties. So true!!!! I didn't think it was possible but you're so right!

So many lists: Ethan's, Goodwin's, the list of 9 tailies, Michael's, Jacob's!

-Ben is apparently defying someone by bringing Jack over.
-Juliet is apparently scheming against Ben. She's following someone's orders, might be Ben's or might be someone else's.
-Alex is a loose cannonball, but is seemingly liked or at least tolerated by everyone despite all her sheningans. Is she royalty or something?
-Pickett is a born minion and order-follower who is chafing at following Ben's orders. Mr. Friendly seems to be the only one keeping him in line.
-Mr. Friendly seems loyal to Ben. He's a diplomat and peace keeper. God knows they need one.

Benry didn't have Jack brought over. Ms Klugh and maybe someone higher than she is made up the list to give to Michael.
I agree that Juliet has her own agenda.
I, too, noticed how they treated Alex and wondered if she was the adopted daughter of Ben and Juliet or something like that.

"Patchy" is Radinsky. Desmond has said before that Radinsky had a glass eye, ana lucia found the eye in the arrow station.

Jacob is an Other that we haven't met yet.
I didn't remember Desmond had a glass eye.

Radinski is dead. Desmond was told by Kelvin that Radinski made the film edits, nothing about a glass eye, though we did find the glass eye with the film splices.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't believe Kelvin if he said the sky was blue without some kind of proof! He told the truth about some things but I think it's possible that he lied about Razinski.

I do think it's possible though that Patchy is Razinski, especially considering Patchy in a hatch. (I know there's a song in there somewhere... :biggrin:).

Jacob's list was clearly made before they ever even got on the airplane. Think about it. Ben didn't know he was sick yet, so no need for a spinal surgeon. However, when he sent Ethan and Goodwin to make a list, he knew he was sick. A spinal surgeon would ben #1 on the list. Therefore Jacob's list was made to get them on the airplane. A master list of who they wanted to be on 815 or whatever. Sheppard was not on that list...no need for a spinal surgeon yet.

Ethan and Goodwins lists probably had him on them. (Hey...Ben needs a spinal surgeon, and here is one. Let's add him to the list) Klugh's list definately had him on it.

I have never been a big supporter of the theory that they were all somehow manipulated to be on flight 815, but in this case it seems to be the best explanation for why Sheppard was not on a list. The list HAD to be made before they know that he was needed.

Don't forget that list was given while Ben was in captivity. So therefore, either Ms. Klugh took it upon herself to add Jack or they knew Michael was coming and Ben put him on the list for taking of for whatever it was he was doing...

Thanks for the recap.

I still dont understand why Pickett killing Sawyer is related to Jack not being on the list.

It appears that: If you were on the list, then you need to be kept alive for some reason. Shephard apparently wasn't on the list, so he is expendable! (*Providing, of course, that when he says 'Shephard' he is referring to Jack, cuz Jack wasn't the only man on that flight with that last name....)

My guess is that Jacob doesn't refer to a man in charge, it refers to any subordinate that was ordered to make a list. We know Ethan never completed a list, so I like the idea that another mole may have mixed in early to take his place and complete the task. Hurley only checked everyone against the manifest once. After Ethan was killed, someone new could have slipped in and it's likely no one would have noticed. So maybe there's still a mole in the camp. Could Paulo be Jacob?

I think there is resentment within the Others' group growing over the fact that Ben went through a lot of trouble to get Jack when he wasn't part of their main mission and has nothing to do with what the Others are really up to.

this makes the most sense to me. i don't understand why people won't accept that Ben is HIM.

Also, just because Bea gave Michael a list does NOT mean that that was the original list dictated by "Jacob". It would be so easy for Jacob to give the list to Bea, then Bea could've just added Jack's name to it if she is one of the ones still loyal to Ben. Additionally, we still have not had confirmation about whether or not any of Ben camera equipment could've shown images inside Locke's hatch. It's possible that, while he was within camera range, (or maybe near a camera in his lockdown room), Ben sent a message stating that he wanted Jack. Possible....

Jacob is him. The list had Kate and Sawyer's names on it. Ben threw in Jack's name because he need the surgery.

Hmmm... I'm thinking Jacob = Paulo. Now that would be a good reason for adding him to the cast, wouldn't it? ;)

It makes a lot of sense actually. Of course, if this is true we will only learn this at the end of the season when Lock and crew are at a moment of vulnerability and Paulo/Jacob gets the drop on them. Then we have to wait till next season to find out what happens.

Why did they have to choose the name Jacob, just as I was getting over my ex.

When the tail survivors arrived, the extra other blended in with the beach folk, who were expecting a few 'new' people. Notice how the Tailies more or less seperated once they hit the beach- Bernard, Eko, Libby and Ana were barely ever shown together - thus creating an plausible alibi for Jacob to tell the Beach survivors that were out of "the loop", since most people didn't have the opportunity (or need) to go up to another tailie or Sawyer or Michael to verify.

Why wouldn't Sawyer or Jin or Michael notice there was someone new added to their group of 40 that they hadn't brought with them?

Why did they have to choose the name Jacob, just as I was getting over my ex.


Aww....Group hug...

;)

I believe it is Jacob Vanderfeld, Board of Directors of the Hanso Foundation. Ben may have contacted him looking for a spinal surgeon... they could have set everything up... EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was immediately struck that Jacob was "Him" hit me immediately. I know there is a lot of discussion here about "he is" "he isn't" but I really thought it was "Him" like the final say on the list. I truly hope this is not one of those things that the writers just drop.

I believe it is Jacob Vanderfeld, Board of Directors of the Hanso Foundation.That was the first thing I thought of!! Thank goodness someone else posted about it. I was beginning to think that everyone was looking at me like I was the girl in the room with 3 heads or something, and then was quietly ignored. Lol. :biggrin:

I am doubtful that it would actually be true, but it's possible. I posted about that in the LE section (here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=64301)) since I figured it might be more appropriate over there.

did picket not call sawyer jacob when he was getting him out of the cage???

He couldve said james, but i thought it was jacob.

I believe it is Jacob Vanderfeld, Board of Directors of the Hanso Foundation. Ben may have contacted him looking for a spinal surgeon... they could have set everything up... EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

sure sounds like the most feasible idea so far.
I didn't participate in TLE,
so I had no clue a Jacob existed within the realm of the show,
very cool.

For the last time- BEN IS "HIM"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's obviously their leader. Juliette referred to him as "a great man" (just as "Henry" did when he was egomaniacally speaking about himself) during the cue-card video scene (telling him what he wanted to hear if he was listening).
What do the writers have to do? Make Ben wear a huge gold chain that says "HIM" on it?

That was the first thing I thought of!! Thank goodness someone else posted about it. I was beginning to think that everyone was looking at me like I was the girl in the room with 3 heads or something, and then was quietly ignored. Lol. :biggrin:

I am doubtful that it would actually be true, but it's possible. I posted about that in the LE section (here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=64301)) since I figured it might be more appropriate over there.

Hey, DharmaChick... is the LE going to be restarting during the hiatus?

Hey, DharmaChick... is the LE going to be restarting during the hiatus?I wish I knew. I haven't heard a peep about anything happening over the hiatus, other than the mobisodes.

I think Ben got caught intentionally to check out Jack, see what kind of guy he was, then during the lockdown, he sent a message via the computer telling them to add Jack to the list, then he entered the numbers, etc...

I'm sorry to be critical, but many of you are being far too literal about this. You're focused on the "list" and not the context.

All we know is:

1. There is a list called "Jacob's List."
2. Jack isn't on the list.
3. Somehow, it's more acceptable to kill Sawyer because Jack is not on the list.

This could mean a lot of things, but I think it's an exercise in futility to try to figure out which of the lists we already know about might be "Jacob's List." We can guess, but without further information, it's only a wild guess.

As far as the list itself is concerned, there are two possibilities. Either the list is a group of people, and whether or not they can kill Sawyer depends on who is on the list (specifically Jack), or the list is just somehow evidence that whoever has commanded them to protect Sawyer isn't following the orders of HIS superior.

I would suggest that the first scenario is a waste of time. It can't be solved with the information we have. That doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means we can't figure it out no matter how hard we try.

The second scenario, if true, would mean that Jacob is the ultimate authority. The local authority would be someone who answers to Jacob, but is unavailable. (Otherwise, the matter should be brought to him/her.) Now, Ben is the obvious choice, but it could be anyone who wasn't in the camp at the time. I'm going with Ben because the decision was made just after Ben went under.

I don't have a good theory as to what all this means, but I think it's a waste of time trying to figure out where the list came from or who is on it. The only question we can even try to answer is why the list matters enough that it justifies killing someone, presumably in defiance of Henry's orders.

In the Bible, Jacob is Bens father - and the father of the nation of Israel.

This makes me think that Jacob coud be the leader of the Others - as well as Ben's father. Who can Jacob be on the show? Well, in the first episode of this season, we saw an older woman knock on Juliettes door during her "book club" meeting. Maybe her husband is Jacob? I think back to her because she had some pretty serious face-time in the season premiere and we havent seen her since. And you dont just introduce random chraracters at the begining of a new season without connecting them into the rest of the story. Maybe she and her husband are Ben's parents and are in charge of the Others.....

In the Bible, Jacob is Bens father - and the father of the nation of Israel.

This makes me think that Jacob coud be the leader of the Others - as well as Ben's father. Who can Jacob be on the show? Well, in the first episode of this season, we saw an older woman knock on Juliettes door during her "book club" meeting. Maybe her husband is Jacob? I think back to her because she had some pretty serious face-time in the season premiere and we havent seen her since. And you dont just introduce random chraracters at the begining of a new season without connecting them into the rest of the story. Maybe she and her husband are Ben's parents and are in charge of the Others.....

Great thought Visual.....
what would be really cool is if that older woman's name was Rachel,
who was Jacob's wife and Benjamin's mother....
eventhough she died after giving birth to him - talking in the bible -
so it wouldn't be a perfect parallel,
but it sure would be cool.

For now, sign me up to the Jacob = Mr. Eyepatch Club! :D

Me too.

maybe jacob is the 4 toed "founder" of the others?

I'll have to watch the scene again, but I got the impression that the "he wasn't even on Jacob's list" was refering to Sawyer. The other Other knew he wanted to kill Sawyer out of revenge for Colleen and was trying to stop him. It just makes sense. How would Jack not being on Jacob's list justify him going out and killing sawyer while Ben is under the knife?

Regardless, I'm believing Jacob is the real "Him", and his list is derived from the lists they were able to gather from Goodwin and whomever for the Losties (someone had to do it since the Others had information on them). This is how I see it played out. Jacob tells Ben that whenever anyone comes to the Island (whether through manipulation or not, that's a different argument), it's Ben's job to get a list of the people on the island. Once that list or lists is obtained, they're given to Jacob for "judgment" to determine who's good and who's bad. In corporate terminology Jacob's the Director, Ben's the operations Manager. Ben sends his people out to get the intel that Jacob wants. To what purpose the people are judged, that's one of the $64,000 questions...

I think you are right morodrim. Can someone get a transcript of this scene, because there are a lot of words being typed about this and I think the premise for most of those words is wrong.

Suprisinly, I didn't see this in any of the posts on this thread yet (but I skipped page eleven).

But as we have established Jacob is a Biblical character. Now what is really interesting about this character is that jacob was a TWIN. Now there have been endless twin theories floating about in the world of Lost speculation but this really links to the concept of the bad twin.

In the Bible, Jacob and Esau are both born to Isaac and Rebecca. Esau is the first twin born, therefore he has the rights of the eldest son. Both of these sons are vastly different. Jacob was scholarly (possibly Ben?) while Esau was a hunter. Jacob is jealous of his brother and with the help of his mother tricks Esau out of his birthright. Esau is enraged at this deception and wants to kill his brother....and so on.

Why is this reference important. Well possibly Ben and Jacob are the twins that have been hinted at. One of them, possibly Jacob, is the bad twin. The two brothers are feuding over their father's territories and have been divided into two tribe. Ben;s tribe that is the "itnellectual" group that is trying to create a utopia and Jacobs' group of "hunters."

Just a thought.

I think you are right morodrim. Can someone get a transcript of this scene, because there are a lot of words being typed about this and I think the premise for most of those words is wrong.


The scene is as follows:

Pickett observes Jack making his first incision.

Pickett: "Let's go"
Other: "But Ben just went into surgery"
Pickett: "Ben's putting his life in the hands of one of them. Shephard wasn't even on Jacob's list anyway."

Could Pickett be incredulous about Ben's surgery because the original intent by Jacob wasn't to do anything about it? Was Ben a goner except for his own intervention, which meant adding Jack to the equation?

i would love jacob to be HIM

i dont subscribe to the Jacob is Eyepatch guy theory - just because they've appeared in the show close together and we dont know who either of them really are.

lots of people did the same thing with benry and radsinski for the same reason and that turned out to be wrong.....

I don't have a good theory as to what all this means, but I think it's a waste of time trying to figure out where the list came from or who is on it. The only question we can even try to answer is why the list matters enough that it justifies killing someone, presumably in defiance of Henry's orders.

I didn't see those 2 ideas as having a connection at all. Pickett's been aching to have a go at Sawyer even before Colleen died, and he's targeting Sawyer for all the anger he feels towards "them" (i.e. the Losties in general). I think Pickett was just using the time where most of the other Others were busy (Ben's surgery - that way Ben or Juliette can't interfere) to have another go at Sawyer. I mean he took off almost right away, and his reference to Ben putting his life into one of their hands basically just reaffirms the fact that he is very angry with the actions of the Losties, and still feels to need to take out this anger on Sawyer.

They had the hairbrushes & combs for initial dna testing.
It's a good spec that they still needed an onsite person to complete Ethan's list (so they'd have names & other info to begin to match to the dna samples). That person would of necessity have had to be there from almost the beginning. Now I see why folks are thinking Paolo or Nikki. I'm not there yet, but it could work.

But wait, wasn't there a hairbrush shortage before they found the Hatch? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Remember poor Claire trying to find a hairbrush awwww :frown:


-Alex is a loose cannonball, but is seemingly liked or at least tolerated by everyone despite all her sheningans. Is she royalty or something?


I noticed this, too. Perhaps it has something to do with her still being considered one of the children? But if they killed her boyfriend, who would presumably (though not assuradly) also be considered among the children, why be so lenient with her? Maybe it has something to do with the whole fertility doctor thing, but now I'm just flying off on tangents of the original post's topic so :lipsseal::lipsseal::lipsseal:

I wish I knew. I haven't heard a peep about anything happening over the hiatus, other than the mobisodes.

mobisodes?

Suprisinly, I didn't see this in any of the posts on this thread yet (but I skipped page eleven).

But as we have established Jacob is a Biblical character. Now what is really interesting about this character is that jacob was a TWIN. Now there have been endless twin theories floating about in the world of Lost speculation but this really links to the concept of the bad twin.

In the Bible, Jacob and Esau are both born to Isaac and Rebecca. Esau is the first twin born, therefore he has the rights of the eldest son. Both of these sons are vastly different. Jacob was scholarly (possibly Ben?) while Esau was a hunter. Jacob is jealous of his brother and with the help of his mother tricks Esau out of his birthright. Esau is enraged at this deception and wants to kill his brother....and so on.

Why is this reference important. Well possibly Ben and Jacob are the twins that have been hinted at. One of them, possibly Jacob, is the bad twin. The two brothers are feuding over their father's territories and have been divided into two tribe. Ben;s tribe that is the "itnellectual" group that is trying to create a utopia and Jacobs' group of "hunters."

Just a thought.

I don't agree with the point you make about Ben and Jacob being twins. At first thought I thought that maybe Jacob was Ethan Rom's real name or something. I like the theory that it is related to TLE. Since Ben told Goodwin and Ethan that he wanted lists and we later learned that Goodwin listed the good ones, I suppose the Jacob's list is also a list of the good ones.

However, my question to you since you seem to know more than me about the bible - can you fit "Jacob's ladder" into this somehow. I was thinking that we might meet Joshua's tree next!!

The scene is as follows:

Pickett observes Jack making his first incision.

Pickett: "Let's go"
Other: "But Ben just went into surgery"
Pickett: "Ben's putting his life in the hands of one of them. Shephard wasn't even on Jacob's list anyway."

Could Pickett be incredulous about Ben's surgery because the original intent by Jacob wasn't to do anything about it? Was Ben a goner except for his own intervention, which meant adding Jack to the equation?

Yes, it was easy to understand upon the first viewing that Pickett was referring to Jack and the fact that Jack was not on the list. I found it interesting that he is using names like Shephard and James. We're not used to hearing them referred to that way. Kate also called Sawyer James last night.

I had to re-watch the scene to pick up the name Jacob since it was sorta mumbled. The first impression was that it was a list of the good ones as per usual. Now I want to know who Jacob is....very frustrating.

I also agree with you that there are Others that are upset that Jack is around. As Ben was upset that they made a deal with Mike in his absence last season, they are upset that Ben made a deal with Jack.

OK - First time poster - I had a little trouble getting a post in - due to traffic ( thanks Hurley and the 9!) So some of this info may have been pointed out elsewhere -

Anyways - On Ecko's stick the numbers - 4.8.15 appear - After spending the afternoon looking up the other scriptures on the stick - I came acorss these numbers and thought they most likly represented another verse - I think I was right...

Numbers (4the book) 4.8.15 (New International Version)
"After you have purified the Levites and presented them as a wave offering, they are to come to do their work at the Tent of Meeting.

This got me thinking - Who are the Levites - so I googled and this site seemed to offer some explaination as to who Jacob might be - and what is North ( I also checked out the episode where Sawyer and Benji where gazing at the Isle from afar - the sun is directly behind them as they speak - the isle in front - so that says to me that they run east to west of each other - not north/south)

from http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/levites.htm ...

"Levites are the descendants of Levi, one of the , the Children Of Jacob (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/jacobch.htm)(Genesis 29:34). The term is generally used, from the perspective of The Bible (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/bybook.htm)to identify the part of the tribe that was set apart for the secondary duties of the sanctuary service (1 Kings 8:4, Ezra 2:70), as assistants to the priests, who were also Levites. Although all priests were Levites, not all Levites were priests."

Theres more on that website - it mentions Aaron and some others as well, Moses and Aaron were both Levites.

Does this make anyone else think that Jacob is Ben's Father ( pretty sure theres been some speculation) - and that other camp we know of - is Secondary to another ( Jacob's Camp) and that if they "look" North they will find this "Tent of Meeting"?

Hope this if anything raises some eyebrows and inspires further speculation and huerism;):rolleyes:

-adam

Jacob Vanderfield:
http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d6/Jacobvanderfield.jpg
Patchy:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/captures/files/8/7/7/9/305_1912.jpg

Could be.

Jacob Vanderfield:
http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d6/Jacobvanderfield.jpg
Patchy:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/captures/files/8/7/7/9/305_1912.jpg

Could be.


we love links, thank you, but you can't hotlink from losttv.

I think they look a lot alike.

OK - First time poster - I had a little trouble getting a post in - due to traffic ( thanks Hurley and the 9!) So some of this info may have been pointed out elsewhere -

Anyways - On Ecko's stick the numbers - 4.8.15 appear - After spending the afternoon looking up the other scriptures on the stick - I came acorss these numbers and thought they most likly represented another verse - I think I was right...

Numbers (4the book) 4.8.15 (New International Version)
"After you have purified the Levites and presented them as a wave offering, they are to come to do their work at the Tent of Meeting.

This got me thinking - Who are the Levites - so I googled and this site seemed to offer some explaination as to who Jacob might be - and what is North ( I also checked out the episode where Sawyer and Benji where gazing at the Isle from afar - the sun is directly behind them as they speak - the isle in front - so that says to me that they run east to west of each other - not north/south)

from http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/levites.htm ...

"Levites are the descendants of Levi, one of the , the Children Of Jacob (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/jacobch.htm)(Genesis 29:34). The term is generally used, from the perspective of The Bible (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/bybook.htm)to identify the part of the tribe that was set apart for the secondary duties of the sanctuary service (1 Kings 8:4, Ezra 2:70), as assistants to the priests, who were also Levites. Although all priests were Levites, not all Levites were priests."

Theres more on that website - it mentions Aaron and some others as well, Moses and Aaron were both Levites.

Does this make anyone else think that Jacob is Ben's Father ( pretty sure theres been some speculation) - and that other camp we know of - is Secondary to another ( Jacob's Camp) and that if they "look" North they will find this "Tent of Meeting"?

Hope this if anything raises some eyebrows and inspires further speculation and huerism;):rolleyes:

-adam


Lost my Luggage... A great and compelling first post!
There has been plenty of debate {and lot's of "evidence"} that the major themes of "Lost" are inspired from biblical and other religious writings... Your post definately adds an important new perspective!

you should make a poll out of this thread..
he could be:
- paulo
- some other fuselage survivor
- 'HIM'
- patchy
- ben's father

I think Jacob's list is a list of people that they can (or are allowed to) bargain with. Jack wasn't on the list therefore all bargains are off... :shrug:

Maybe Jacob is Patchy??

Yeah, that's what I think.

But if Jack wasn't on the list, then who was? Just Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley? Or are we talking about a completely different list here?

Sorry I jumpped ahead a bit. Heres my 2 cents.

Ben needed surgery. He grabbed Jack (the surgen) and the two closest people to him or two people to use against him to force him (or as Ben said himself), make him believe he wanted to do it volenterily. Seems they are setting us up to read to much into this. Juliet has followed all her life and now wants out or to make things better so here is her chance to get the Islands head hancho out of the way.

Picket wants to kill Sawyer to get even with the plane crash victems for killing his wife and to him thats the fastest way to quench that. Jack see a way to help the copuple off this island. Thing is jack doesnt know they arent on his island.

What troubles me is that Kate this whole season hasn't been acting like herself and I think thats why shes saying "She cant leave" She's just not as spunky as she once was....wonder why??

As for the list, it said in one episode that you sit in the chair and write down daily events of what happened. Maybe the other places have the same or diffrent cameras and this person is named Jacob and he made a list of who he saw in the camera and then sent it up another shoot and the Others found it. Ie a list. Klaus said these 5 people so she got the list form someone else or she made it herself.

I know there are a lot of different opinions here, but I'm still going to go with Paulo being Jacob. Here's why:

We saw when Ethan and Goodwin were sent into camp, they were told to pretend to be survivors but do not get involved. Then they were told to prepare lists.

They both used their real names, which was how Ethan got found out. Hurley discovered he wasn't on the manifest, so he was forced to abduct Claire (and Charlie) without having made a list. He failed in his mission.

Ethan gets killed, so I believe that sometime immediately after that, they sent in another mole. This time, they got smart, and like Henry Gale, they told "Jacob" to assume the identity of a dead passenger from the manifest. Enter Paulo (the name of a passenger who died).

What we already know about Paulo is that up until now, he has stayed on the fringes, following the directive to not get involved. He is only pulled in, very reluctantly, to the Pearl station by Nikki, with whom he has forged a relationship, but still maintains a low profile. (Nikki has turned out to be a clever gal, I think she'll figure this out).

Recall The Hunting Party, when Jack called Zeke out on sending in a spy. Zeke tensed. Jack said Ethan, and Zeke relaxed. Jack made it clear that they still don't know about the mole in their midst. At the time we speculated it was Libby. I think Jacob is Paulo, and that Paulo made a list and gave it over. He now remains in camp to monitor what goes on and report back.

I think this will be the big twist in Paulo's on island flashback story, and that when this is discovered, he will be killed.

Wow, pacejunkie - awesome theory! I would love it if this is so, and then we get a Paulo flashback showing him intergrating and watching the Losties.

Also, I wonder if this were true - would Paulo somehow be communicating with the Others?

Wow, pacejunkie - awesome theory! I would love it if this is so, and then we get a Paulo flashback showing him intergrating and watching the Losties.

Also, I wonder if this were true - would Paulo somehow be communicating with the Others?

I think the big reveal will be that Paulo has been in communication with the Losties up until recently (they didn't know they had a boat for example, so I can't explain that. Maybe he doesn't report in that often). But I think a flashback ep that shows how he got there and what he's up to would be very cool.

I recall Locke's line back in ATBCHDI: "We can't account for all our people. And who's to say they're our people?"

There have been hints for a while now that there's someone in the camp besides Ethan, someone who came to fill his shoes. Makes sense they would take another identity this time like they failed to do the first time. I think Ben posing as Henry Gale was a clue to that device.

I think this will explain why Paulo has been shown to be a self-absorbed jerk with no interest in the island adventures. I think that's the persona he took on to maintain a distance.

I think the big reveal will be that Paulo has been in communication with the Losties up until recently (they didn't know they had a boat for example, so I can't explain that. Maybe he doesn't report in that often). But I think a flashback ep that shows how he got there and what he's up to would be very cool.

I recall Locke's line back in ATBCHDI: "We can't account for all our people. And who's to say they're our people?"

There have been hints for a while now that there's someone in the camp besides Ethan, someone who came to fill his shoes. Makes sense they would take another identity this time like they failed to do the first time. I think Ben posing as Henry Gale was a clue to that device.

So.... Paulo being a mole.... could this be


the "character bomb"?

So.... Paulo being a mole.... could this be


the "character bomb"?


At first I thought it would be Desmond, but now I think he's part of the plot bomb and Paulo/Jacob is indeed the character bomb.

It kinda of seems that Jacob is none other then Ethan. Ben sent Goodwin to the tail, Ethan to the fuselage and asked for a list of names of both groups.

I didn't see those 2 ideas as having a connection at all. Pickett's been aching to have a go at Sawyer even before Colleen died, and he's targeting Sawyer for all the anger he feels towards "them" (i.e. the Losties in general). I think Pickett was just using the time where most of the other Others were busy (Ben's surgery - that way Ben or Juliette can't interfere) to have another go at Sawyer. I mean he took off almost right away, and his reference to Ben putting his life into one of their hands basically just reaffirms the fact that he is very angry with the actions of the Losties, and still feels to need to take out this anger on Sawyer.

I totally agree with you, I don't see the "Jack's not on Jacob's list" -> "Sawyer can be killed" connection. I think it's more like Pickett doesn't trust the survivors, or at least the survivors that has been brought in Michael's list, and doesn't think putting Ben's life in Jack's hands is a very good idea. And he uses the fact that Jack wasn't on that mysterious list (a list of "good people"?), but he's been wanting to "have a go at Sawyer" since they met, specially after Colleen died.

Re: Jacob being "patchy", I also disagree. Whoever Jacob is, he's an Other of some significance and not a Dharma leftover stranded in a hatch... ok, he *might* be, but I think Jacob and "patchy" are two different entities that will be explained at different times, "patchy" will probably function as a Roussea-kind of character, and the path to Jacob will reveal more about the Others and their purpose...

I also think that there's still not final word on Ben being "him". He might be "him" to Tom and Juliet, but Ben could have a "him", "a great man" above him... does it make sense? :)

Just a random thought here.... but I have kinda in the back of my head always thought that "Goodwin" was that guy's last name. Maybe it could be "Jacob Goodwin" ? Just a stretchy thought .....

I did not participate in TLE either so the Jacob reference was "Lost" on me unti l read that post....

Or Jacob is Goodwin's first name...

Hey, DharmaChick... is the LE going to be restarting during the hiatus?I wish I knew. I haven't heard a peep about anything happening over the hiatus, other than the mobisodes.mobisodes?The mini-series of Lost-related video clips that will be released over the break.
This thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=54118) provides some more info.


Jacob Vanderfield:
http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d6/Jacobvanderfield.jpg
Patchy:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/captures/files/8/7/7/9/305_1912.jpg

Could be.I think that the image from the THF site (your first link) may have been one of the stock photos that they used for characters that they did not use actively in the LE, so we might not be able to compare that one to any actors that may be playing him, yet.
During the LE there was another Hanso Foundation executive whose picture changed when they introduced him in video segments. They were able to get away with this because the Hugh claimed that the previous pic was one of his predecessor in that position, and that the pic had not been updated yet. ...just thought that I should mention this in case there is further debate/comparison about anyone on the island and pics of anyone on THF site.

What about this


I always thought that Cindy was taken the first night, flipped to the Other side, and returned as an implanted spy.

Maybe Paulo is the same. I doubt that Paulo showed up with a manifest identity. Everyone would have noticed that Paulo showed up right after they discovered Ethan wasn't on the manifest. But maybe he was abducted, flipped, and implanted.

Good thinking Herk (you don't need spoiler font for your theory). Paulo could have been an abducted tailie, but does that make him Jacob? Why would his name be changed? Or, are you saying he's a mole but he's not Jacob?

Ethan gets killed, so I believe that sometime immediately after that, they sent in another mole. This time, they got smart, and like Henry Gale, they told "Jacob" to assume the identity of a dead passenger from the manifest. Enter Paulo


who, like Ethan, checks out plumbing... :p

who, like Ethan, checks out plumbing... :p

Heh. That's pretty funny. :biggrin:

Hey, maybe that's a play on the Watergate "plumbers."

I think Paulo being Jacob is the best guess, as we know Ethan never compiled his list but eventually the Others started acting like they had a list of the Fusies.

As to what Pickett's statements mean, I took them this way. Ben has given orders (to Pickett and other subordinates) that Sawyer must remain alive for the time being. Seeing that Ben won't be able to stop him while he's in surgery, Pickett seizes his chance. Pickett's pal invokes Ben's authority to counter Pickett's mission to kill Sawyer. The pal either means that they can't get approval from an unconscious Ben or that they should be there to see that the surgery goes OK. It is therefore necessary for Pickett, who needs backup to carry this execution out, to undermine Ben's authority. So he tells his pal that Ben has lost it, entrusting his life to someone who isn't on the list of good people. The mentioning of a new name, "Jacob," is to tantalize us, but for Pickett the author of the list is no big deal. It's just the fact that they rigidly define newcomers as worthy or unworthy of joining the Other community, and Jack was ruled out.

Cardie

I know there are a lot of different opinions here, but I'm still going to go with Paulo being Jacob. Here's why:

We saw when Ethan and Goodwin were sent into camp, they were told to pretend to be survivors but do not get involved. Then they were told to prepare lists.

They both used their real names, which was how Ethan got found out. Hurley discovered he wasn't on the manifest, so he was forced to abduct Claire (and Charlie) without having made a list. He failed in his mission.

Ethan gets killed, so I believe that sometime immediately after that, they sent in another mole. This time, they got smart, and like Henry Gale, they told "Jacob" to assume the identity of a dead passenger from the manifest. Enter Paulo (the name of a passenger who died).

What we already know about Paulo is that up until now, he has stayed on the fringes, following the directive to not get involved. He is only pulled in, very reluctantly, to the Pearl station by Nikki, with whom he has forged a relationship, but still maintains a low profile. (Nikki has turned out to be a clever gal, I think she'll figure this out).

Recall The Hunting Party, when Jack called Zeke out on sending in a spy. Zeke tensed. Jack said Ethan, and Zeke relaxed. Jack made it clear that they still don't know about the mole in their midst. At the time we speculated it was Libby. I think Jacob is Paulo, and that Paulo made a list and gave it over. He now remains in camp to monitor what goes on and report back.

I think this will be the big twist in Paulo's on island flashback story, and that when this is discovered, he will be killed.

This sounds quite possible pacejunkie, I remember last year there was a lot of discussion about a mol eon the beach when the writer for the Lost diary on ABC.com said that their brother (ben) was locked in the hatch. People strated guessing which character was the mole and I speculated at the time that the first new beach Lostie introduced would probably be the mole. Of course by the time they introduced Paulo and Nikki, I completely forgot about the mole idea! :biggrin:

who, like Ethan, checks out plumbing... :p

clever, :rotflmao:

This sounds quite possible pacejunkie, I remember last year there was a lot of discussion about a mol eon the beach when the writer for the Lost diary on ABC.com said that their brother (ben) was locked in the hatch. People strated guessing which character was the mole and I speculated at the time that the first new beach Lostie introduced would probably be the mole. Of course by the time they introduced Paulo and Nikki, I completely forgot about the mole idea! :biggrin::

I forgot about that diary. Interesting.

I know there are a lot of different opinions here, but I'm still going to go with Paulo being Jacob. Here's why:

We saw when Ethan and Goodwin were sent into camp, they were told to pretend to be survivors but do not get involved. Then they were told to prepare lists.

They both used their real names, which was how Ethan got found out. Hurley discovered he wasn't on the manifest, so he was forced to abduct Claire (and Charlie) without having made a list. He failed in his mission.

Ethan gets killed, so I believe that sometime immediately after that, they sent in another mole. This time, they got smart, and like Henry Gale, they told "Jacob" to assume the identity of a dead passenger from the manifest. Enter Paulo (the name of a passenger who died).

What we already know about Paulo is that up until now, he has stayed on the fringes, following the directive to not get involved. He is only pulled in, very reluctantly, to the Pearl station by Nikki, with whom he has forged a relationship, but still maintains a low profile. (Nikki has turned out to be a clever gal, I think she'll figure this out).

Recall The Hunting Party, when Jack called Zeke out on sending in a spy. Zeke tensed. Jack said Ethan, and Zeke relaxed. Jack made it clear that they still don't know about the mole in their midst. At the time we speculated it was Libby. I think Jacob is Paulo, and that Paulo made a list and gave it over. He now remains in camp to monitor what goes on and report back.

I think this will be the big twist in Paulo's on island flashback story, and that when this is discovered, he will be killed.
Pace, You are Great! Thanks again for "insight". I knew there was an explaination for Jacob but could not come up with anything. I knew I didn't like that guy!

µ

Maybe when Paolo went to the bathroom in the Pearl, he was somehow communicating with Patchy to warn him that they were monkeying around with the monitors and might see him. I thought it was kind of weird and random that they had him use the bathroom just to give him that unfunny plumbing line.

Maybe when Paolo went to the bathroom in the Pearl, he was somehow communicating with Patchy to warn him that they were monkeying around with the monitors and might see him. I thought it was kind of weird and random that they had him use the bathroom just to give him that unfunny plumbing line.

I like this idea, it would be great if we later found out that Paulo wasn't just a goofball and his ridiculous line was just a cover up. He could also be informing the others that Locke had found the Pearl, he might not have known about the Eko's and Locke's previous trip there.

^This would be a great twist, but it would make me want him dead even more! :devil2:

I like this idea, it would be great if we later found out that Paulo wasn't just a goofball and his ridiculous line was just a cover up. He could also be informing the others that Locke had found the Pearl, he might not have known about the Eko's and Locke's previous trip there.

I may be over-examining, but he also had a knife on him. He had it in his and when he was eating some piece of fruit right after his big plumbing line. he didn't get it in the Pearl so he must keep it on him. The way he was holding it with the fruit reminded me of Goodwin peeling the mango. We don't get a close look at it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a military knife like the other one. Maybe it wasn't a big deal, but still, they chose to have him show it. And in a scene where everyone else is gasping and riveted by the new information, he's completely nonchalant, snacking "It's some computers...can we go now?" Let's hope he's a mole -- otherwise he might be the most useless addition ever.

I may be over-examining, but he also had a knife on him. He had it in his and when he was eating some piece of fruit right after his big plumbing line. he didn't get it in the Pearl so he must keep it on him. The way he was holding it with the fruit reminded me of Goodwin peeling the mango. We don't get a close look at it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a military knife like the other one. Maybe it wasn't a big deal, but still, they chose to have him show it. And in a scene where everyone else is gasping and riveted by the new information, he's completely nonchalant, snacking "It's some computers...can we go now?" Let's hope he's a mole -- otherwise he might be the most useless addition ever.

That's not a bad parallel, it wouldn't hurt to get a look at the knife, it was odd and goofy how he was peeking fruit at that moment. Also, if he was a mole wanting to get them out of the pearl would make sense.

That's not a bad parallel, it wouldn't hurt to get a look at the knife, it was odd and goofy how he was peeking fruit at that moment. Also, if he was a mole wanting to get them out of the pearl would make sense.

Here's a quick comparison (http://i15.tinypic.com/2rer394.jpg) w/ Goodwin's knife. I couldn't get a better cap of Paulo's knife to see if the tip is angled -- it moves to quickly and I can't go frame by frame in itunes. It's impossible to tell, but it's about the same size and shape. But the whole scenario is similar. He's got that Other fruit-cutting je ne sais quoi. Now all we need is for him to snap someone's neck like a chicken and we'll nail him.

Here's a quick comparison (http://i15.tinypic.com/2rer394.jpg) w/ Goodwin's knife. I couldn't get a better cap of Paulo's knife to see if the tip is angled -- it moves to quickly and I can't go frame by frame in itunes. It's impossible to tell, but it's about the same size and shape. But the whole scenario is similar. He's got that Other fruit-cutting je ne sais quoi. Now all we need is for him to snap someone's neck like a chicken and we'll nail him.

Good side by side, it does look eerily similar and both the knife and how he handles the fruit. And yes the tip is angled. Here's the shot (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/penyours/pauloknife.jpg) you're looking for. Feel free to incorporate this pic into your comparison :)

Now all we need is for him to snap someone's neck like a chicken and we'll nail him.

:rotflmao:Yes that's the next step, we should be on the look out for this. :biggrin:

maybe jacob is at the bottom of the cord the runs into the ocean that we havent seen for 2 years?!!?! NOW THAT WOULD BE A TWIST!!!

not sure if this was mentioned yet...

many of us initially assumed "Jacob" is male....could "Jacob" not be the last name of the Woman fertility doctor??? Something is not right with her, she is not as innocent as she is trying to seem. Just a thought.

I like the Jacob/Paulo idea.

As far as the list Jack is not on...

Maybe it's a list of bad people... people that have killed intentionally.
If Jack is not on the list, he is not a threat to Ben or anyone else in the operating room. Therefore, Pickett and his friend do not have to stick around to monitor the situation. Instead, they could go attack Sawyer.

Unfortunately for Picket, they underestimated Jack (or overestimated just how "good" he is).

not sure if this was mentioned yet...

many of us initially assumed "Jacob" is male....could "Jacob" not be the last name of the Woman fertility doctor??? Something is not right with her, she is not as innocent as she is trying to seem. Just a thought.


That would mean it it would be Jacobs' instead of Jacob's. Interesting idea. If that's the case, it could very well be Juliet and to keep that under wraps for the time being they used her last name which we of course don't know yet. Juliet Jacobs.

I like the Jacob/Paulo idea.

As far as the list Jack is not on...

Maybe it's a list of bad people... people that have killed intentionally.
If Jack is not on the list, he is not a threat to Ben or anyone else in the operating room. Therefore, Pickett and his friend do not have to stick around to monitor the situation. Instead, they could go attack Sawyer.

Unfortunately for Picket, they underestimated Jack (or overestimated just how "good" he is).

Possible, it depends on what the list is for, Juliet likes Jack so she would make him seem as appealing as possible to the others, Pickett seems to insinuate that since Jack wasn't on the list he didn't like him.

Jacob can't be Patchy, because Patchy is actually Saul Tigh. After he told Adama that they would never see each other again, he started hitting the bottle. And as I have often believed, consume enough alcohol and you can alter the space-time continuum (hence the heavy drinking after every Bama football loss.) Hooch=wormhole=Saul finding himself on the dear-old 13th colony. He signs up for the Dharma Initiative because he likes the uniforms. They make him feel jaunty. Fifteen years later, here is stuck in a hole in the ground with nothing but a surveillance camera adna a Commodore 64 to keep him company.

Wait a minute! Am I mixing my fictional worlds again? My bad. Guess it's time to start drinking so I can go back and never type this post!

I would like to see that ocean cord revisited. And Pace, I bet you cracked the big shocker and now that its out they'll change it. :lipsseal:

Good side by side, it does look eerily similar and both the knife and how he handles the fruit. And yes the tip is angled. Here's the shot (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/penyours/pauloknife.jpg) you're looking for. Feel free to incorporate this pic into your comparison :)




Perfect! Thanks!

Jacob can't be Patchy, because Patchy is actually Saul Tigh.

Gods, I think you've got it!

maybe jacob is at the bottom of the cord the runs into the ocean that we havent seen for 2 years?!!?! NOW THAT WOULD BE A TWIST!!!

hahaha, that would be pretty awesome.

Seriously, though, I thought it was probably McPatchy due to that pic of Jacob Vanderfield floating around, but the Paulo idea is cool if they can come up with a convincing way to explain why no one noticed his insertion.

Maybe Jacob is Nikki?


Maybe "Jacob's" list is really "Jacobs" list...a surname perhaps? And possibly female?

And Pace, I bet you cracked the big shocker and now that its out they'll change it. :lipsseal:

:crybaby: But I want to be right! When do I get to say I told you so? :)

I have a decent track record. I was the first to guess that Dave was Hurley's imaginary friend. I saw A Beautiful Mind. ;)

I may be over-examining, but he also had a knife on him. He had it in his and when he was eating some piece of fruit right after his big plumbing line. he didn't get it in the Pearl so he must keep it on him. The way he was holding it with the fruit reminded me of Goodwin peeling the mango. We don't get a close look at it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a military knife like the other one. Maybe it wasn't a big deal, but still, they chose to have him show it. And in a scene where everyone else is gasping and riveted by the new information, he's completely nonchalant, snacking "It's some computers...can we go now?" Let's hope he's a mole -- otherwise he might be the most useless addition ever.
Nice catch on the fruit handling and knives! Do you think it makes sense to add Desmond (in TCOL?) (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=161)? Desmond an Other?:eek2:

Nice catch on the fru