How do we feel he has grown as a character up to this point?

I was impressed with his reaction to seeing Kate and Sawyer together and that he came through for his friends. At least, he's trying to. He has to know that Ben may reneg on his deal to let him off.
I think he has chosen this way because it's the only he can know they are safe. He has no trust for the Others.

I think he trusts Kate and Sawyer to come back for him more than he trusts Ben to let him go.

I never really doubted that Jack would do the right thing. (Okay, maybe for two seconds I doubted).

Overall, Jack always puts others before himself. You can say you love it about him or it annoys you, but that's the core of Jack's being. It's why I root for him. He can be overbearing or intense, but in the end, he has the best interest of the Losties at heart, even when they rip out HIS heart and stomp it into a million pieces.

Jack is always going to be an intense, in-your-face type of character, and frankly, I never want that to change. I don't want Jack low-key, ever. Matthew Fox is so suited to play Jack Shepard. He really gets the character.

I was happy that Jack never fell for the Other's mind games and never allowed himself to be manipulated. I was always wondering if he was being sucked in or not to Juliet's psychological sparring matches. You know it's funny, in the very first episode, we were debating whether or not Jack had been "broken" (which I never thought he was. He was exhausted and dehydrated), but ironically, it seems that in the end, it was Kate and Sawyer who were ultimately broken of their spirit.

Jack really shines in these first six episodes.

Jack just totally owned this whole ep!! The way he's been dealing with Benry and the others is awesome, and what he did at the end with Benry on the table?? Amazing. It obviously hurt to see Kate with Sawyer and he still did the selfless thing and did his best to get them out of there, knowing that the Others will obviously not let him go now whether he saves Benry or not. Jack rocks.

ETA: Maxum I couldnt agree more...if anyone broke it was Sawyer followed by Kate. Though Kate seemed to still be holding on. The way she was yelling at Sawyer to fight and to stand up. But yea, they couldnt break Jack.

It means more Jack/Ben scenes, more Jack/Juliet scenes, more Jack/Ben/Juliet scenes. . . .

In short, more of the best thing these six eppys had going for them! :clap:

Yeah Jack did really well this episode, but one of the reason he didn't break wa because he had a huge advantage with the surgery, that Kate and Sawyer didn't have.

Jack just totally owned this whole ep!! .
You're right and it's interesting it's a Kate epi, too.


I loved how he went right for the guns. It's weird how people hate him since he is so the everyday man turned action hero type. I also love how he takes nothing for granted such as should I kill Ben or not? Instead, he formulates his own plan.

Jack is amazing. He is the best character on the show and has such amazing integrity and selfless-ness. Matthew Fox totally owns Lost :smile:

I'm a Jack fan, and I always have trusted that he would ultimately do the right thing. I mean, he is not squeaky clean. He certainly has caused harm and done some questionable things in the past for the sake of the greater good, but ultimately he has solid moral base. So I don't really see much growth into doing the right thing or whatever, but maybe, just maybe the slightest dip into the dark side.

I mean he made Ben promice him that he would get off the island if he performed the surgery. Which I would chalk up to con if it weren't for the fact that Jack's master plan left Jack with the others. I mean the plan that Jack devised involves Kate and Sawyer getting to safety, and him staying with the others. I mean why this plan? Unless Jack's heart is set on home!

Jack has once again proven that he is the best character on the show.
This episode was all Jack. He was so incredible. I loved how he told Ben he wasn't doing the surgery and how he told Kate "we're done here."

Do you all think he wanted off the island and threw it away, if saying he wanted off was an impulsive reaction or if he thinks Ben will still let him off, or if it was a ploy to begin with?

I was so proud of Jack this whole episode. it was great

Jack was definitely the highlight of the mini-season, this episode in particular. There's so much depth and intelligence to the character, and I love Foxy's acting. It's all about what he manages to convey when he doesn't say a thing. (Although he did have some kickass lines tonight!)

I can't wait to see him again in February!


And BTW, Foxy has a movie coming out in December (We Are Marshall). It looks awesome, so if you're in the need for a Foxy fix, check it out! :biggrin:

I never really doubted that Jack would do the right thing. (Okay, maybe for two seconds I doubted).

Overall, Jack always puts others before himself. You can say you love it about him or it annoys you, but that's the core of Jack's being. It's why I root for him. He can be overbearing or intense, but in the end, he has the best interest of the Losties at heart, even when they rip out HIS heart and stomp it into a million pieces.

Jack is always going to be an intense, in-your-face type of character, and frankly, I never want that to change. I don't want Jack low-key, ever. Matthew Fox is so suited to play Jack Shepard. He really gets the character.

I was happy that Jack never fell for the Other's mind games and never allowed himself to be manipulated. I was always wondering if he was being sucked in or not to Juliet's psychological sparring matches. You know it's funny, in the very first episode, we were debating whether or not Jack had been "broken" (which I never thought he was. He was exhausted and dehydrated), but ironically, it seems that in the end, it was Kate and Sawyer who were ultimately broken of their spirit.

Jack really shines in these first six episodes.

I TOTALLY AGREE. I CAN'T ADD ANYTHING ELSE
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in my opinion, jack is the best character, and now we are seeing what we could know by intuition... no surprises!
he's the best!

How do we feel he has grown as a character up to this point?

I was impressed with his reaction to seeing Kate and Sawyer together and that he came through for his friends. At least, he's trying to. He has to know that Ben may reneg on his deal to let him off.
I think he has chosen this way because it's the only he can know they are safe. He has no trust for the Others.

I know Jack ruled this episode, and was the only character acting intelligent in it. He's knows he cannot trust the Others. He handled seeing Kate and Sawyer wonderfully. I can't wait until February to see Jack/Juliet/Ben scenes. :biggrin:

Do you all think he wanted off the island and threw it away, if saying he wanted off was an impulsive reaction or if he thinks Ben will still let him off, or if it was a ploy to begin with?

The expression on Jack's face after seeing Kate and Sawyer together, after all he's been through on the Hydra, it's tough to say that Jack didn't mean what he said about wanting to go home.

But at the same time, as many have said, Jack always puts the greater good before himself. I don't believe he actually trusted Ben to free him anyway.

I don't believe he actually trusted Ben to free him anyway.

I don't believe that Jack trust the Others at all. He played Juliet and Ben, because he knew he could not trust either one of them.

I was thinking the way Ben and Juliet dislike each other could actually give Jack and upper hand.

Remember when Ben was in the hatch, and he constantly saw Jack and Locke bickering, I think Ben and Juliet are just like Jack and Locke in a way.
Only Jack would never want Locke dead, like Juliet wants Ben dead.

Do you all think he wanted off the island and threw it away, if saying he wanted off was an impulsive reaction or if he thinks Ben will still let him off, or if it was a ploy to begin with?

I think he does want off the island, but I don't think he would ever put his needs before the group. He trusts Kate and Sawyer more than Ben or Juliet. That line was Jack playing Ben and it worked cause right now he has the upper hand

Jack doesn't know how to scrub in or maintain a sterile field. Ben will die of septicaemia anyway before too long after this op. Any neuro-surgeons I have worked for are freaks for sterility yet after putting on his gloves he touches the skin on his wrist and some unsterile tubing. The nurse touches the back of Bens head. The least the producers could do is teach the guy to scrub in

Yeah Jack did really well this episode, but one of the reason he didn't break wa because he had a huge advantage with the surgery, that Kate and Sawyer didn't have.

I don't think Jack had a huge advantage at all - certainly not for the first four or so episodes. Jack had no idea why they were holding him. He was completely isolated from everyone, and the Others kept him in a place where he had no concept of time. Isolation can break someone rather quickly, and with Jack being a man who needs to have control over himself and his environment, this was probably a nightmare for him.

By the time Jack figures out why they took him, it's almost the last episode. My point is that at least Kate and Sawyer had each other to talk to, to commiserate with, and to ultimately defend each other. (I won't even mention that Kate could get in and out of her cage.) Now, I'm not implying that Kate or Sawyer were weak. I am saying that I expected the two of the them to be a bit more battle-hardened considering their backgrounds and their pasts. I have a feeling that I'll be seeing their old fire in the next episode.

Either way, Jack was phenomenal in the five episodes in which he appeared this mini-season.
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I mean he made Ben promice him that he would get off the island if he performed the surgery. Which I would chalk up to con if it weren't for the fact that Jack's master plan left Jack with the others. I mean the plan that Jack devised involves Kate and Sawyer getting to safety, and him staying with the others. I mean why this plan? Unless Jack's heart is set on home!

Jack's window of opportunity is less than a week, and he knows from Kate that they are planning on killing Sawyer if he doesn't do the operation. Jack's plan is a desperate one, but ultimately, Jack's plan is not designed to save himself. He's pretty sure that this may be a death sentence for him, and I feel that part of his growth in this story arc has been that he can accept things that he can't change - in this case, Kate's feelings for Sawyer and her choice (at least for the moment). We know from TOTC that Jack was obssessed with the man Sara was involved with and he contested the divorce and would not accept defeat - even though I'm not really sure he even loved her.

By the end of "I Do," Jack was able to accept things he wasn't able to let go of in the past. He is willing to sacrifice himself to save Kate and Sawyer.

That's my take, anyway.

Jack's not messing around - and he never really was. He saw an opportunity and he's taking it. I hope it doesn't backfire since he has no idea of where they are exactly and there's still some Others around to recapture him if he's able to make a run for it.

I like that he's getting some of his resolve back - from finding Desmond in the hatch to realizing that Michael was compromised, he's had a rough few weeks making sense of it all. Maybe now he sees he has nothing to lose so he's going for it- and bringing Kate & Sawyer with him.

I really can't wait to see the next episodes!

I like Jack, but to be honest, I don't see much growth from him by the end of this. He thinks he's all clever and got it all figured out, but as we've seen from him numerous times before, he runs around doing stuff without knowing the whole situation. He's missing one critical piece of info (that they're on a different Island than the one they've "come to know and love") and so all his vein-popping screaming is futile at this point.

As for him playing The Others, buwahahahahahahaha, yeah, right. "You're good, *Sawyer*, we're much better". Jack's not even as good as James at mindgames, Ben and Juliet are still ultimately in control: he doesn't help Ben, they put a bullet through his head--he knows that too. Of course, they're not killers, but as we've seen, "the only thing we put inside of you was doubt" is a very effective strategy.

I can't wait for Jack to get taken there by Ben, get taken Home (which I'm sure means Otherville) and Jack walk away from everyone else, just to see all the Jack fan's heads explode. :) "I can’t tell you why, but I have had a little reprieve from the show," Mr. Fox acknowledged in an interview with The Boston Herald yesterday. I'll get my Kelvin-esque Hazmat suit ready. :D

I thought MF's acting was awesome this mini-season, and Jack's character has shown some interesting action and internality...but Jack is still needing to work on his temper and his control-freak issues.

I'm curious to see where his plan goes...since Kate and Sawyer can't easily run back to the beach tribe, and who knows what the Others will do when/if he fixes Ben. Can they even get him home? Does "home", and "off this island" just mean back to the beach with the other fusies?

And I have to add to the discussion about Kate and Sawyer breaking and Jack not....
I think that even though K and S are together, they are put thru way more emotional and physical stress. Not sure it's all intentional (Pickett's beating of Sawyer didn't seem planned), but Sawyer is constantly getting the beat down and Kate has to watch. Sawyer has been shown the distance to 'his' island, whereas Jack has been shown that the Others have contact with the outside world (Red Sox game).
Something happened to Kate after breakfast. Sawyer's first meal is a fish biscuit and rusty water. Jack's being fed hamburgers and flirting with Juliette.

Putting Kate and Sawyer together, I think, was an act designed to break them. Keeping Jack alone was designed to break him. But isn't it always harder to watch someone you care about being tortured than to be tortured yourself?

I like Jack, but to be honest, I don't see much growth from him by the end of this. He thinks he's all clever and got it all figured out, but as we've seen from him numerous times before, he runs around doing stuff without knowing the whole situation. He's missing one critical piece of info (that they're on a different Island than the one they've "come to know and love") and so all his vein-popping screaming is futile at this point.

How is he suppose to know that he is missing this "one critical piece of information?" None of us know everything all the time, all the details of every situation. We make decisions based on what information we have at that time, and that's what Jack did. How exactly is his plan futile? I will NEVER get this point of view from the fans. Just because they are on an island does not mean that they can't get off of it. For heavens sake, how do you think they got TO the island in the first place.

Maybe it's just me, but if someone was beating the crap out of me, putting a gun to my head and threatening to blow my brains out, I would take whatever chance someone gave me to save my life rather than just throw my hands up in defeat and say, "I'm on another island, so of course, there's no way to escape." I would take the other approach and think, "Heck, maybe I won't make it off, but I'm going to die fighting."

As for him playing The Others, buwahahahahahahaha, yeah, right. "You're good, *Sawyer*, we're much better". Jack's not even as good as James at mindgames,

Really? I recall Jack outsmarting Sawyer quite often - from getting Sawyer to turn over the briefcase to him, to outsmarting him for all the meds, to finding out where his stash was hidden. Yada, yada, yada. Sawyer is a good con, but he's hardly a man who can't be outsmarted - and has been.

Ben and Juliet are still ultimately in control: he doesn't help Ben, they put a bullet through his head--he knows that too. Of course, they're not killers, but as we've seen, "the only thing we put inside of you was doubt" is a very effective strategy.

Jack has the control in this situation. You don't think Jack knows that he risks a bullet in the head? Of course he knows it. It's the whole point of his sacrifice. Jack is aware that death is probably the end game for him after he helps Sawyer and Kate escape. Now, whether Kate and Sawyer actually TRY to escape, despite the obstacles is a whole other story.

I can't wait for Jack to get taken there by Ben, get taken Home (which I'm sure means Otherville) and Jack walk away from everyone else, just to see all the Jack fan's heads explode. :) "I can’t tell you why, but I have had a little reprieve from the show," Mr. Fox acknowledged in an interview with The Boston Herald yesterday. I'll get my Kelvin-esque Hazmat suit ready. :D

You made that leap based on that statement? Okay.

How is he suppose to know that he is missing this "one critical piece of information?" None of us know everything all the time, all the details of every situation. We make decisions based on what information we have at that time, and that's what Jack did. How exactly is his plan futile? I will NEVER get this point of view from the fans. Just because they are on an island does not mean that they can't get off of it. For heavens sake, how do you think they got TO the island in the first place.Maxum on-the-money here. I like to think the end of Jack and Kate's convo will be:

Jack: Damnit Kate, RUN!
Kate: but Jack, we're on another island. Theres nowhere to run to!
Jack: Well we got here somehow, so clearly theres some type of boat or water vehicle that you can find and get off this rock with.
Kate: ...
Jack: Kate?
Kate: &$%#(&%
Jack: What was that for?
Kate: I dunno, I hadnt thought of there being a boat. I mostly just wanted to bang Sawyer and snuggle in an open bear cage.
Jack: ...why exactly am I sacrificing myself for you guys again?

Thats the worst thing about the "Didn't love it" thread. Just because Kate/Sawyer are written to be too stupid to put two and two together doesn't mean the general audience has to be. Jack's plan is fairly solid, and it'll likely work in accomplishing its goal in the end.
Really? I recall Jack outsmarting Sawyer quite often - from getting Sawyer to turn over the briefcase to him, to outsmarting him for all the meds, to finding out where his stash was hidden. Yada, yada, yada. Sawyer is a good con, but he's hardly a man who can't be outsmarted - and has been.The card game alone sinks this point.
You made that leap based on that statement? Okay.It was a bit much. The Others are pretty much going to do whatever the hell they want with Jack from this point forward. He doesnt really get anymore choices, as his bargaining chip will be gone.

Maybe it's just me, but if someone was beating the crap out of me, putting a gun to my head and threatening to blow my brains out, I would take whatever chance someone gave me to save my life rather than just throw my hands up in defeat and say, "I'm on another island, so of course, there's no way to escape." I would take the other approach and think, "Heck, maybe I won't make it off, but I'm going to die fighting."

Amen! Me, too! I love that about Jack. He's a fighter. That's why I said earlier that another island wouldn't stop him. It's amazing what a little determination can do for you. I like that that particular characteristic works for and against Jack.
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It was a bit much. The Others are pretty much going to do whatever the hell they want with Jack from this point forward. He doesnt really get anymore choices, as his bargaining chip will be gone.

Right. Cleary he was up against the same odds as Michael. Live together, die alone vs. emfh. Michael chose the latter, Jack was tempted to choose the emfh when it got really personal, but in the end he had to sacrifice his own safety for the group. Foxy said something about how Jack is keenly aware of the danger he is in.

Maxum on-the-money here. I like to think the end of Jack and Kate's convo will be:

Jack: Damnit Kate, RUN!
Kate: but Jack, we're on another island. Theres nowhere to run to!
Jack: Well we got here somehow, so clearly theres some type of boat or water vehicle that you can find and get off this rock with.
Kate: ...
Jack: Kate?
Kate: &$%#(&%
Jack: What was that for?
Kate: I dunno, I hadnt thought of there being a boat. I mostly just wanted to bang Sawyer and snuggle in an open bear cage.
Jack: ...why exactly am I sacrificing myself for you guys again?

:biggrin: That was funny.

Thats the worst thing about the "Didn't love it" thread. Just because Kate/Sawyer are written to be too stupid to put two and two together doesn't mean the general audience has to be. Jack's plan is fairly solid, and it'll likely work in accomplishing its goal in the end.

Well, I don't venture into the "Didn't love it thread" because it just keeps going on and on and on, and I don't agree with most of the arguments.

Yeah, I agree. Why is getting off the island impossible? I. Just. Don't. Get. It. Jack is giving them a fighting chance. At this point, it's up to Kate and Sawyer to make the most of their hour - (and not in the cage either.:rolleyes: )

The card game alone sinks this point.

Definitely. Who knew Jack could read Sawyer so well? I'm telling you, there's more to Jack than he's letting on.

It was a bit much. The Others are pretty much going to do whatever the hell they want with Jack from this point forward. He doesnt really get anymore choices, as his bargaining chip will be gone.

That's exactly right. Once the operation is over, Jack is at their mercy. I really think that's going to be an interesting dynamic for his character, in terms of storytelling come next year. I'm looking forward to it.
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Amen! Me, too! I love that about Jack. He's a fighter. That's why I said earlier that another island wouldn't stop him. It's amazing what a little determination can do for you. I like that that particular characteristic works for and against Jack.
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Very insightful, YellowTang. Jack's determination and stubborness is both his ally and his nemesis, depending on the situation. I do love that he's a fighter.

[quote] Right. Cleary he was up against the same odds as Michael. Live together, die alone vs. emfh. Michael chose the latter, Jack was tempted to choose the emfh when it got really personal, but in the end he had to sacrifice his own safety for the group. Foxy said something about how Jack is keenly aware of the danger he is in.

I think for all Jack's flaws or shortcomings, the fact that he always puts the others ahead of himself is what sets him apart. The fact that Jack knows that this final move might prove to be a death sentence to him just enforces that fact.