even if ben is true to his word, jack is only asking to get off of THIS island, not go home, so are they just going to put him on the other island and make him the butt of all their jokes?

If you KNOW you're being played, but play along cuz YOU are playing THEM, then no, Jack is not being played!

If jack is getting 'played' the others are more hardcore than we thought.

Benry is dying, and unless there is another doctor in the house(or they can checkmate jack), he is done for.

even if ben is true to his word, jack is only asking to get off of THIS island, not go home, so are they just going to put him on the other island and make him the butt of all their jokes?

sure,
he does not know they're on another island, so ben is going to do what he promised, getting him off that island, and he'll bring jack back where the losties are

I agree with Humans!
Jack knows he was getting played, so he's going to play them right back. Jack's not and idiot. He's intelligent, and he has proved that this season.

Well, I think that it's a tricky situation. Initially, Ben said to Jack that he wanted Jack to want to do the operation, to make the choice on his own. Juliet came to Jack with her flashcards and told him that Ben is an evil and dangerous guy, so Jack should kill him during surgery. While I would say that it's safe to say that Jack doesn't like Ben and doesn't think that he's a kind, moral guy, he's not going to kill him just because Juliet says that he should. So, Jack tells Ben that he won't do the surgery. In the meantime, he's thinking about what Juliet says. Soon afterward, Kate comes to Jack and says that if he doesn't do the surgery, Juliet says that the Others will kill Sawyer. Jack and Sawyer aren't blood brothers, but he definitely doesn't want Sawyer to die. Jack starts to form a plan in his mind, his own plan made up of his own choices. This plan eventually gets explained to the Others by Jack that yes, he will do the surgery. What he doesn't tell them then is that he will later tell them that he's going to rip Ben's kidney sack open, which will eventually kill him, if they don't set Kate and Sawyer free and give Kate the walkie-talkie so that she can radio back in an hour that she and Sawyer are safe.

The point in re-explaining all of this mumbo jumbo? Look what happened? Jack is operating on Ben and might end up killing him? He thinks that he made all of these choices on his own, but he didn't. The news of Sawyer possibly getting killed set into motion a series of events that brought about the conditions for Juliet's request to possibly happen: Ben's death at the hands of Jack. It seems that Jack WOULD kill Ben if something happened to Kate and Sawyer, but, in the end, I don't think that he would do it. Ben gets his operation, though, and Jack wanted to do it. Ben never said that he needed to know the reason WHY Jack wanted to do it, just that he wanted Jack to want to do it...

I think that Jack is getting played, even though he thinks that he's controlling the situation and making his own choices. His choices are being passive-aggresively controlled by the Others and the situations that they are forcing to happen...

What will happen in the end is that Kate and Sawyer will end up okay and Ben will wake up from the operation alive. Why did Ben want Jack to want to do the operation? So he'd do a better job or is the reason more abstract? I don't know...

1st post.

I agree with you 100%. The game is being played, and being played hard. Juliet has her instructions from Ben and is doing exactly as planned, except she is evil and now has her own agenda playing out.

Should be good..

1st post.

I agree with you 100%. The game is being played, and being played hard. Juliet has her instructions from Ben and is doing exactly as planned, except she is evil and now has her own agenda playing out.

Should be good..Hey! Welcome Lost Trekman! I know that I was long-winded in my post, but I really do believe that although Jack thinks that he's in control and has made the decisions that he's made because he wanted to, well, I don't think that's 100% true. I think he was guided, for lack of a better word, by the events that happened. I can't wait for February 7th! It's not even Christmas, yet...patience, patience...:)

I agree with Humans!
Thank you for making my day, LostFANatic!! :hug: :biggrin:

Yeah, everyone's playing everyone around here. Except that, for the next hour, Jack really DOES have the edge. :thumbsup:

I don't know, for sure, how much of the upperhand that Jack has right now. I am not certain that he isn't doing just what the Others wanted. Look at it this way: I don't think that Jack will end up killing Ben. Kate and Sawyer will end up getting away and Jack will finish the operation. We don't have confirmation that Ben really has a tumor on his spine, anyways. Yes, we've seen the X-rays, but we haven't seen Jack see Ben's tumor...

I think that Jack is getting played, even though he thinks that he's controlling the situation and making his own choices. His choices are being passive-aggresively controlled by the Others and the situations that they are forcing to happen...Your ideas are interesting, but I disagree. Theres been a lot of hoopla on this forum about everybody pulling a con on everyone else. Kate's conning Jack and Sawyer, Juliet's conning Jack, Jack's conning Juliet etc etc. I like to think that the writers are keeping it straight forward. The Others brought Kate to Jack because they thought she'd be able to convince him to perform the surgery. That failed, so they put into motion the Kate-does-Sawyer-on-camera-and-Jack-sees-it plan in hopes that he'll freak out and do the surgery. This is the point where the Other's plan goes to hell. Jack doesnt freak out. At all. What usually happens when Jack takes an emotional punch? He cries. Here, he not only doesn't cry, he has a look of contentment and relief upon watching the video. Now Ben doesnt see this, so he believes it when Jack starts acting freaked out by what he saw on the monitors. So Jack agrees to do the surgery, and Ben believes that he genuinely wants to "get the hell off this island."

This is why I believe that the Other's(mainly Juliet and Tom) looks of surprise when Jack sets his plan into motion are genuine. Its just way too far of a stretch to think that they were manipulating Jack into trying to kill Ben in order to free Kate/Sawyer. Its too convoluted for one thing, and the writers would have a hell of a time explaining it and making it clear to the audience without the whole thing seeming flimsy. It'd also be pretty dramaticly and emotionally unfullfilling. People get sick of everything being a lie or a conspiracy eventually. Its good to show them something real from time to time.

I also wouldn't take for granted that Jack will finish the surgery. I really don't see how Jack is going to have time to remove the tumor after Ben has been bleeding for an hour. Jack is probably going to have to completely sew Ben back up immediately without risking killing him. So Ben will live on, but he'll still have that tumor on his spine. Definitly not part of the plan.

Hopefully this post is easy to read. Been feeling :confused: :eek: :angry: :rolleyes: :eek2: today.

I think Jack's options are pretty simple. He completes the operation or he dies.

They will let him live if Ben's operation goes as planned...that was the agreement and the "Others" seem to honor their contracts. But...since failure is not an option (or is it) Jack must pay if Ben dies.

The only wrench in my theory is if in fact Juliet really was planning to have Jack kill Ben. If this is the case then Juliet has a lot of fast talking and planning to do. Danny and Tom will not be happy and will "seek and destroy".

I really believe Ben must live or Jack is toast....

Thoughts?

I think Jack's options are pretty simple. He completes the operation or he dies.

They will let him live if Ben's operation goes as planned...that was the agreement and the "Others" seem to honor their contracts. But...since failure is not an option (or is it) Jack must pay if Ben dies.

The only wrench in my theory is if in fact Juliet really was planning to have Jack kill Ben. If this is the case then Juliet has a lot of fast talking and planning to do. Danny and Tom will not be happy and will "seek and destroy".

I really believe Ben must live or Jack is toast....

Thoughts?Well, Trek, I think I will work backwards on this one. I don't think that Matthew Fox is going anywhere, so that's where I'll start. I think that Kate and Sawyer will make it safely away from the Others' area (I don't know if they'll end up back on the "Their Island" or just safe, hidden somewhere. I don't know, for sure, if they are on a different Island, so I'll hold back on that one...) somehow and Jack will finish the operation and Ben will wake up without the tumor, nice and healthy. Jack will "make it through the operation", too. I don't know where he goes from there, though...literally and figuratively. Maybe, the Others' little village??? Make that..."Mean and healthy..." I get so conspiracy-oriented that I have even wondered if he even has a tumor...maybe those aren't his X-rays, but what's the point in faking that type of thing???

You and I think alike.

What about the rumor that Matthew has some movie contract and is looking to get out of LOST.

If this has been discussed I aplogize, just get me up to speed.

I have so much to offer this website....I am a LOSTAHOLIC. I hopefully will fit it.

You and I think alike.

What about the rumor that Matthew has some movie contract and is looking to get out of LOST.

If this has been discussed I aplogize, just get me up to speed.

I have so much to offer this website....I am a LOSTAHOLIC. I hopefully will fit it.Trekman,

I will spoilerfont my answer to as not to spoil stuff for other people...


No, he isn't looking to get off LOST. He said somewhere that he knows that it's LOST that is getting him all these movie role offers. I also read somewhere that he said in some Boston paper that he isn't getting killed this season, either, and that the amount of rumors that go around make him laugh and amaze him. Personally, I think that he'll be around until the very end and probably make it through alive...

I wonder what's gonna happen after Ben's operation? I wonder if Jack will end up in the Others' village? It would be stupid if the Others just kept Jack at the Hydra Station. It wouldn't seem like a good plot/storyline. I don't know if Ben really has a tumor. I really do get suspicious! :)

Sweet, because I have him going all the way also.

We have a LOST pool and I have the following making it to the end:

Jack
Kate
Sawyer
Locke

We were only allowed to pick 4 and we had to designate 1 of them as our franchise player...I picked Jack.

How do you do the "hide a responce" thingy...that's cool (like nobody looks!) :cool:

Sweet, because I have him going all the way also.

We have a LOST pool and I have the following making it to the end:

Jack
Kate
Sawyer
Locke

We were only allowed to pick 4 and we had to designate 1 of them as our franchise player...I picked Jack.

How do you do the "hide a responce" thingy...that's cool (like nobody looks!) :cool:Well, I have to admit that he is my favorite character for a variety of reasons, but at the same time, he is the hero or "main main character" of the show, so I think that forces us to think that he will make it to the end of the show. I agree with your four choices, but I would also add Hurley. I know. I know. That's not four people, but those are the characters that I think won't get killed on the show. However, I wonder about Locke sometimes. If I had to pick four people, I could be persuaded to change Hurley for Locke. I wonder if in some future timezone, the skeletons in the caves are Kate and Jack? I know that she made her choice for Sawyer in the last episode, but romance aside, I just have this feeling that Kate and Jack will end up pairing off in the end. I don't care if that doesn't happen, but it's a feeling that I have. If I had to pick two people that make it to the very end, I'd pick Kate and Jack and make those two skeletons them after many years of living on the Island. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if just those two make it to the end of the series alive. Why they stay on the Island after all these years in any hypothetical theory, I don't know...

With regards to "spoilerfonting", all you have to do is type what you want to type, click on the white "S" in the black box in the upper righthand corner of the box we post our responses in and then highlight the words that you want to hide. It's recommended that if you are talking about something in a forum or thread that isn't 100% spoilerish, you should spoilerfont the things that may be spoilers or new information to someone.

Anyhoo, I hope that you are enjoying your time on the Fuselage. It's a lot of fun!

I think Benry is willing to potentially let Jack go free, but he's hoping that, the more time Jack spends with The Others, the more likely Jack will become to eventually CHOOSE to join The Others (to assist them with completing their agenda) out of Jack's own free will.

Juliet, on the other hand, I believe is using Jack because she wants to usurp Benry's power base and raise a coup, and she wants to pull Jack in as a partner/ally to help her do that...AT THIS POINT. Eventually, however, as the two of them become a "power couple" during Benry's recovery process, I believe Juliet will come to truly fall in love with Jack.

These are my predictions.

I think Benry is willing to potentially let Jack go free, but he's hoping that, the more time Jack spends with The Others, the more likely Jack will become to eventually CHOOSE to join The Others (to assist them with completing their agenda) out of Jack's own free will.

Juliet, on the other hand, I believe is using Jack because she wants to usurp Benry's power base and raise a coup, and she wants to pull Jack in as a partner/ally to help her do that...AT THIS POINT. Eventually, however, as the two of them become a "power couple" during Benry's recovery process, I believe Juliet will come to truly fall in love with Jack.

These are my predictions.Yes, the simplest answer is usually right. I love to look for conspiracies and intricate answers to the show, but I think what you said is essentially correct. I think that the most logical (Not always a word that can be said in the same breath as LOST...) answer is that Juliet does want to usurp power from Benry - for whatever reason and thinks that Jack would be a great ally in her cause. That being said, why is it important for Benry to have Jack choose to join the Others on his own Free Will? It certainly seems like Free Will and Choice are in the forefront of Benry's mind, yet he is always playing mind games with people, which influences their choices. As Benry recovers from his surgery, I wonder where that will happen and where that will leave Juliet and Jack - literally and figuratively???

That being said, why is it important for Benry to have Jack choose to join the Others on his own Free Will? It certainly seems like Free Will and Choice are in the forefront of Benry's mind, yet he is always playing mind games with people, which influences their choices.

In some ways, Benry can rationalize that, even in light of his manipulation of others, they are still choosing to trust him and thereby are ultimately acting out of their own "free will."

But if Jack willingly decides to join The Others, rather than being brainwashed or "reeducated" into obeying them, he might be a much stronger asset to them (especially with his talents as a surgeon). Besides, it appears that many of The Others (Juliet, Tom/Zeke, Bea Klugh) may have joined the Hanso Foundation out of their own volition from off the island.

As Benry recovers from his surgery, I wonder where that will happen and where that will leave Juliet and Jack - literally and figuratively???

An intensified power struggle between Benry and Juliet, with Jack caught in the middle. It will last all season long, and ultimately I believe it will end with Benry's death at the hands of Juliet...or, in an even more interesting twist, at the hands of Jack.

just registered.


but...............Jack is obviously doing this for a reason. (duh)
i hope he keeps Ben alive. With all that's gone on with Jack in Hydra, i'd be nice for us, the viewer, to see what progresses.
as far as Jack getting played, i think not.
He is supposidly their leader.(which i doubt)
The others, i believe, are followers.

Well, I have to admit that he is my favorite character for a variety of reasons, but at the same time, he is the hero or "main main character" of the show, so I think that forces us to think that he will make it to the end of the show.

Actually, I think it would be more interesting if they DID kill off Jack before the series ends (by late-Season 4, preferably). Mainly because of how Jack's death would affect the rest of the remaining Losties, forcing them to grow as characters.

Jack surviving to the end of the series would be too predictable, IMHO.

I honestly think fans would be more upset about losing Hurley, Kate, Sayid, Sawyer, or Locke over Jack. This is not to say Jack's death wouldn't be shocking and upsetting for many (because it would), but it would also move the overall story forward and force the writers to do more with the rest of the characters.

I greatly disagree with that comment. The show just would not be the same without Jack. He is the star and the focal point. All of the other characters are in support of Jacks character.

When you get right down to it, Hurley and Charlie serve no purpose whatsover....they are there for the color and humor.

Jack deserves to make it to the end and I believe he will...as well as a great number of the Losties.

Don't get me wrong..I like Hurley and Charlie...but planning a show around them would be fatal in my opinion, regardless of if there characters are better developed or not.

Jack is #1...Kate/Sawyer/Locke are a distant second...Sayid and Desmond fit in but I don't know where. The rest are awesome supporting cast members.

I think that Jack is the core of the wheel and Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Ben and Locke (not as much as in the last two seasons, but still important) are the spokes of the wheel...I agree with Trek. If Jack got killed or left the Island, the wheel would break and collapse. I really like Hurley (Especially Jorge, because he puts so much time in at the Fusleage; that's unprecedented for an actor, I think...), but I don't think he's as important to the overall story as the people that I mentioned. I like Charlie, too, and feel bad that Dominic isn't being used as much this year (And last year, too). I thought he'd play a bigger role in the overall show based on the Season One...not so much anymore...

Hurley's role is to say what the audience is thinking, and he seems to have a direct connection to The Numbers. I honestly believe the show's mythology and storyteling would suffer A LOT more if they killed off Hurley than if they killed off Jack.

This is Lost, an ENSEMBLE drama - - not Shepherd's Island.

Jack is definitely an important character, but he is hardly the end-all and be-all of Lost. Just because he had a few kick-*** moments throughout the 6-episode mini-season doesn't mean he's critical to the show's survival all the way through the end of the series.

Yes, it is an ensemble show, however, I think that Jack, Kate and Sawyer are at the core of it all and I stick to my analogy of the wheel. Every character is important on LOST, however, IMHO, JKS are the main characters on the show. I think that Locke is up there, too, but I think that something changed and he is not, for some reason, featured as much as in Season One. I respect your opinion, Get_A_Klugh, but as I mentioned before, I think that Jack is the core of the wheel we call "LOST". All of the characters are important, but some are small spokes and some are big spokes on the wheel. Ironically, it's funny to think about the idea that the show was going to be called "The Circle" way back when. I like the title that we have now, but I think the idea that the show was almost called "The Circle" kind of explains why I think what I think about the show...

YES, he's being played. AND HE KNOWS IT. Which means The Others come out losers in this "game of wits." By the end of this season, The Others will finally concede that They can neither break Jack, nor enlist him in Their cause. While allowing him to continue to languish in his cage, or using him for experiments, are options, I doubt The Others will opt for either.

Thus, the end of this season will have Them having to decide whether to let Jack go back to "his people". . .or to kill him.

No, I don't think Jack will die. (Some emergency will come up that requires his medical skills, should They have opted for killing him.) But Jack's life really WILL be on the line at the end of this season. (Kill him or experiment the sickness/vaccines on him the likeliest reasons for this.)

This truly is a deadly game Jack's caught up in. . . .

Juniebun, I respect your opinion too, and I agree with your assessment that Jack, Kate, and Sawyer are the main characters at the core of the show, right now.

That being said, I think EVERY character is potentially expendable...yes, even including Jack.

As much as I personally favor Kate and Hurley as characters (way better than Jack), I could even see the writers killing one of them off to "shock" the audience. I just think it would make more sense, from a storytelling perspective, for Jack to be killed off before Kate or Hurley. Eventually, Jack's character is going to come full circle (although probably not until late-Season 4), and there will be nowhere else to go with him. Kate and Hurley - - and even Locke, Sayid, and Sawyer - - all have so much more unexplored mileage to be gained out of their characters.

Granted, I predicted that Sawyer was going to be killed off during the six-episode mini-season...but now it appears that he is here to stay, at least for awhile.

As much as the producers insist that there was supposedly "nowhere left to go" with Libby, I think they do realize in hindsight that it was a mistake to kill her off (although they'll never admit it). There's nothing they can do about it now, aside from finishing Libby's backstory through other people's flashbacks...but I think the negative fan reaction was a modest lesson for them in jumping the gun, and because of that mistake the writers will make sure to fully develop any regulars from now on before going through with any more planned deaths.

By the end of this season, The Others will finally concede that They can neither break Jack, nor enlist him in Their cause.

All is speculation at this point, but I disagree. I'm convinced that by the end of the season, Jack will decide to permanently join The Others....although as an uneasy ally to Juliet's faction. That will segue into the final stretch of Jack's storyline through the majority of Season 4, at which point the character will reach a tragic end.

Actually, I think it would be more interesting if they DID kill off Jack before the series ends (by late-Season 4, preferably). Mainly because of how Jack's death would affect the rest of the remaining Losties, forcing them to grow as characters.

Jack surviving to the end of the series would be too predictable, IMHO.

I honestly think fans would be more upset about losing Hurley, Kate, Sayid, Sawyer, or Locke over Jack. This is not to say Jack's death wouldn't be shocking and upsetting for many (because it would), but it would also move the overall story forward and force the writers to do more with the rest of the characters.

Yeah, I gotta disagree with this, too. Losing Jack would be more devastating than many of those characters, and overall, it would create a huge hole in the storytelling dynamic, as far as I'm concerned. You may be right, though. The writers may want to kill Jack by the end of the series as an "Oh my God" moment, but I honestly feel that the fan response would be outrage. What do I base this on? Just the RUMOR of Jack dying had the internet forums in a twist (and not in a good way).

If I had to pick the characters who might still be standing when all this is over, I would choose Jack, Kate, Hurley, Claire and Rose. That's my guess.

Well, again, the fan outrage regarding the rumors of Jack's death - - that's based on where Jack's character is RIGHT NOW, in the storyline. It would be a mistake for them to kill off Jack RIGHT NOW, because his story isn't done being told.

I suspect they have some character twists in store for Jack that will cause audiences to develop a very different opinion about his character, one season from now.

Your ideas are interesting, but I disagree. Theres been a lot of hoopla on this forum about everybody pulling a con on everyone else. Kate's conning Jack and Sawyer, Juliet's conning Jack, Jack's conning Juliet etc etc. I like to think that the writers are keeping it straight forward. The Others brought Kate to Jack because they thought she'd be able to convince him to perform the surgery. That failed, so they put into motion the Kate-does-Sawyer-on-camera-and-Jack-sees-it plan in hopes that he'll freak out and do the surgery. This is the point where the Other's plan goes to hell. Jack doesnt freak out. At all. What usually happens when Jack takes an emotional punch? He cries. Here, he not only doesn't cry, he has a look of contentment and relief upon watching the video. Now Ben doesnt see this, so he believes it when Jack starts acting freaked out by what he saw on the monitors. So Jack agrees to do the surgery, and Ben believes that he genuinely wants to "get the hell off this island."

This is why I believe that the Other's(mainly Juliet and Tom) looks of surprise when Jack sets his plan into motion are genuine. Its just way too far of a stretch to think that they were manipulating Jack into trying to kill Ben in order to free Kate/Sawyer. Its too convoluted for one thing, and the writers would have a hell of a time explaining it and making it clear to the audience without the whole thing seeming flimsy. It'd also be pretty dramaticly and emotionally unfullfilling. People get sick of everything being a lie or a conspiracy eventually. Its good to show them something real from time to time.

I also wouldn't take for granted that Jack will finish the surgery. I really don't see how Jack is going to have time to remove the tumor after Ben has been bleeding for an hour. Jack is probably going to have to completely sew Ben back up immediately without risking killing him. So Ben will live on, but he'll still have that tumor on his spine. Definitly not part of the plan.
I quite agree with you, jason. I tend to think the situation there is not an elaborate daisy-chain of cons, but a concerted effort to get Jack to want, for some reason, to perform Ben's surgery. So they set up a series of manipulations that you enumerated, and also the very uninformed plan to have Juliet's blond hair remind him of Sarah and somehow have him bond with her for that reason? Ben really has lived on an island all his life if he thought that was a feasible idea!
Jack didn't fall for any of these ploys and brilliantly turned the tables on them.

I'm undecided as to whether Juliet's cue-card show was in earnest or part of Ben's plot -- I tend to think she was earnest since there seems to be a lot of tension between Ben & Juliet, even when Jack is not present, like in the opening flashback.

Interesting thought that Jack will sew Benry back up without removing the tumor, thus giving him a little more leverage. It's bold, and exactly in line with what we've seen from Jack this season.


Yes, the simplest answer is usually right. I love to look for conspiracies and intricate answers to the show, but I think what you said is essentially correct. I think that the most logical (Not always a word that can be said in the same breath as LOST...) answer is that Juliet does want to usurp power from Benry - for whatever reason and thinks that Jack would be a great ally in her cause. That being said, why is it important for Benry to have Jack choose to join the Others on his own Free Will? It certainly seems like Free Will and Choice are in the forefront of Benry's mind, yet he is always playing mind games with people, which influences their choices. As Benry recovers from his surgery, I wonder where that will happen and where that will leave Juliet and Jack - literally and figuratively???
Junie, this point about Free Will is a mystery. It's another case of The Others saying they're one thing and demonstrating the opposite with their actions. I for one am a little tired of Benry and his mind games, and would like to find out the whys.

Yes, Workingmom, I really want to know the answers to all of the "Whys?", too...I don't care, right now, who is on Jacob's List, but I want to know why they are on it...well, I do want to know who, but why would be juicier for me...the same goes for Ben's list that had JKSH on it...