When Kate is talking to Jack on the walkie-talkie and he tells her to run she yells "I'm not leaving without you". Jack says "Run!" Did it seem to anyone else that she might have been meaning Sawyer when she said that? She was still talking into the walkie-talkie but she was looking intently at Sawyer and his situation. Was it totally clear she was telling Jack she wouldn't leave without Jack or could it be interpreted that she meant Sawyer? Sorry if this seems silly. I just want opinions.

I think she meant both men. Here she is, stuck in this situation - they're about to kill Sawyer and Jack's telling her to run, and Jack will be stuck if they leave. She doesn't want to leave either of them behind. At least that's my opinion. ;)

Live together, Die alone is what I got from it. For once, Kate is going to belly up to the bar and make sure she takes care of others as well as herself. Plus, she and Sawyer both know at this point that they are on a little island that is pretty far from the bigger island and Jack has no clue. It seems that if they don't all leave together that at least one of them is going to get killed. Possibly all of them if Jack doesn't get that info.

It was both. That's why she was looking at Sawyer while saying it to Jack.

The line had two purposes:
1. Establishing Kate as hero and
2. Fueling shipper wars, apparently for perpetual amusement of TPTB

It makes sense she wouldn't want to leave either one of them in that hell. But it came in the middle of an episode of nonsense - having sex in an open cage rather than running, popping a huge padlock with a rock, Jack sitting all night apparently in his cell when he had a loaded gun at his disposal, having a crazed executioner stop his murder to obey his cellphone (walky talky)...a lot of dumb stuff. So having something that made sense was a little confusing.

But she wouldn't leave either one. That was the point. Her lover or her friend.

It was both. That's why she was looking at Sawyer while saying it to Jack.

The line had two purposes:
1. Establishing Kate as hero and
2. Fueling shipper wars, apparently for perpetual amusement of TPTB

It makes sense she wouldn't want to leave either one of them in that hell. But it came in the middle of an episode of nonsense - having sex in an open cage rather than running, popping a huge padlock with a rock, Jack sitting all night apparently in his cell when he had a loaded gun at his disposal, having a crazed executioner stop his murder to obey his cellphone (walky talky)...a lot of dumb stuff. So having something that made sense was a little confusing.

But she wouldn't leave either one. That was the point. Her lover or her friend.

Good points. It makes sense that she was saying it to both men really. I hadn't thought of the Kate hero aspect. All her life she just ran away and in two different parts of this episode she had every opportunity to run for it and she stays or at least hesitates, we don't really know what she will do at the point we are left at. Interesting.

I thought it was amusing that Jack had to scream at her to run, when all her life, her natural instinct *was* to run. And now, she ain't budging ;)

I think it shows real development in her character-def. for the better.

Did it seem to anyone else that she might have been meaning Sawyer when she said that? She was still talking into the walkie-talkie but she was looking intently at Sawyer and his situation.I think that she was looking at Sawyer basically to make sure that they were all on the same page. She didn't want Sawyer to think that she meant it in a romantic way toward Jack, after they (her and Sawyer) just had some very personal time together. So she was looking at him to make sure that he didn't take it that way, and to confirm to him that all three of them need to stick together. Live together, die alone. That's how I saw it.

I really doubt that she would have needed to say this to Sawyer.

I think she meant both men. Here she is, stuck in this situation - they're about to kill Sawyer and Jack's telling her to run, and Jack will be stuck if they leave. She doesn't want to leave either of them behind. At least that's my opinion. ;)

Definitely agree with this.

She was speaking to both men...she doesn't want to run without EITHER of them, leaving them behind in the hands of madmen.

Definitely agree with this.

She was speaking to both men...she doesn't want to run without EITHER of them, leaving them behind in the hands of madmen.

Maybe, just maybe Kate was looking at Sawyer since he had a gun pointed at his head and she was making sure he didn't get shot. It IS possible she actually was only speaking to Jack. You know, since she was talking into the talkie and he was on the other end.

Not everything has to do with Sawyer.

I think she definitely meant Jack when she said it...

And I think she said it especially because she knew what Jack was trying to do. She knew he was essentially throwing himself on the sword for her. He didn't trust that the others would let them go after he finished the operation...so he wanted to make sure that she was far away from them if it turned out he was right. And even though Kate doesn't know what Jack saw on the monitor...I think she understood that he was basically saying that he knows he's lost her...but he wants her to get away and be happy. She could see that it shook him when she tried to get him to operate to Save Sawyer. He basically threw her out of his 'room' ;). But now he was being the bigger person and putting his own feelings aside...

Kate not only didn't want to leave Jack behind...but I think she was a little overcome with emotion realizing what he was doing...and because of the symbolism of the gesture..

Live Together, Die Alone.

Maybe, just maybe Kate was looking at Sawyer since he had a gun pointed at his head and she was making sure he didn't get shot. It IS possible she actually was only speaking to Jack. You know, since she was talking into the talkie and he was on the other end.

Not everything has to do with Sawyer.

Nor does everything have to do with Jack. Nor Kate. That's the purpose of the "Live Together, Die Alone" mantra.

This situation is about ALL of them. They ALL need to get away from these crazy people, and Kate knows that. She wants them ALL to be safe. She's not going to want to sacrifice one for the other...that's the worst position in the world for her to have to be in...nor does she want to abandon either. She cares about both men, on different levels. Jack is someone she thinks the world of, she is loyal to him, she respects him, she knows what a good man he is, and he doesn't deserve to be left behind. Sawyer is the man she has fallen in love with, someone she's come to truly understand and admire, and who truly understands and admires her in return.

So when she was yelling "I can't leave without you!" to Jack, her eyes were locked on Sawyer. Both men are involved in her decision. :smile:

I think she definitely meant Jack when she said it...

And I think she said it especially because she knew what Jack was trying to do. She knew he was essentially throwing himself on the sword for her. He didn't trust that the others would let them go after he finished the operation...so he wanted to make sure that she was far away from them if it turned out he was right. And even though Kate doesn't know what Jack saw on the monitor...I think she understood that he was basically saying that he knows he's lost her...but he wants her to get away and be happy. She could see that it shook him when she tried to get him to operate to Save Sawyer. He basically threw her out of his 'room' ;). But now he was being the bigger person and putting his own feelings aside...

Kate not only didn't want to leave Jack behind...but I think she was a little overcome with emotion realizing what he was doing...and because of the symbolism of the gesture..
Well said, Q. After having declared her love for Sawyer, I think it was a given she wasn't planning on leaving him behind either. And yeah, kudos to Jack for being the bigger man - though I'd like to have heard him say 'you AND Sawyer - RUN'. :71:

That being said,

So when she was yelling "I can't leave without you!" to Jack, her eyes were locked on Sawyer. Both men are involved in her decision. :smile:I still think she meant both with that eye-lock.

What's the question here? She was saying it to Jack. That she wouldn't leave without Sawyer was a given. The very first scene of the episode showed she wouldn't even go to work without Sawyer. So she ALSO won't leave without Jack.

Is there supposed to be some hidden something or other here that I'm missing? Is anyone proposing that she meant "I'll leave Sawyer, but not you, Jack"? Seriously? That's like saying the whole episode never happened.

I also took it mean that she wouldn't leave without Jack. But the way she said it made me question the "absoluteness" of her having chosen Sawyer, as all the hype (and their actions) pointed to. I'm not so sure she doesn't have feelings for Jack.

Well said, Q. After having declared her love for Sawyer, I think it was a given she wasn't planning on leaving him behind either. And yeah, kudos to Jack for being the bigger man - though I'd like to have heard him say 'you AND Sawyer - RUN'. :71:


It would have been nice, but probably pretty pointless. Jack saw, with his own eyes, that Kate had chosen to be with Sawyer. And so he understands that she's not going to leave Sawyer behind...not after that sweet cuddling between them that he had to witness. He also knows that Sawyer's life is at stake...Kate told him as much.

So when he told Kate "you've got an hour head-start", that whole dialogue was implying that she'd be taking Sawyer with her.

As I understood it, leastways. :smile:
100%
I also took it mean that she wouldn't leave without Jack. But the way she said it made me question the "absoluteness" of her having chosen Sawyer, as all the hype (and their actions) pointed to. I'm not so sure she doesn't have feelings for Jack.

She does have feelings for Jack. Strong ones. Admiration, loyalty, and she cares deeply for him. But I believe her romantic feelings have been pretty well sorted out. They lie, completely, with Sawyer.

I am very disappointed that Jack didn't mention Sawyer when telling Kate to escape. I thought he and Sawyer had come to like each other a little bit. It's possible that he meant "you" plural and not "you" singular. But I think that if he was concerned about Sawyer at all he would have said "you guys have an hour head start". (That's Yankee speak for "y'all"!) :biggrin:

I am very disappointed that Jack didn't mention Sawyer when telling Kate to escape. I thought he and Sawyer had come to like each other a little bit. It's possible that he meant "you" plural and not "you" singular. But I think that if he was concerned about Sawyer at all he would have said "you guys have an hour head start". (That's Yankee speak for "y'all"!) :biggrin:
I think it was unnecessary for Jack to specifically mention Sawyer (though we don't know that's not coming when the scene resumes in Feb). He saw that Kate and Sawyer were in the same cage. When he was speaking to Kate, he probably assumed that Sawyer was standing right beside her...and that when the cage door was opened, she'd run, and Sawyer would run with her.

I'm betting that when their conversation continues in February and Jack yells "Kate, dammit, RUN!", Kate will reply along the lines of "I CAN'T run, we're not on OUR Island, we don't have a BOAT, Sawyer has a gun to his head, and I'm not leaving YOU at the hands of these maniacs!"

And then I'm betting that Jack will turn to Juliet, and she will help Kate and Sawyer get to either the Others submarine, or (more likely) Desmond's boat and back to safety, where they'll meet up with Locke and Sayid, lock and load, and begin Operation: Go Get Jack.

That's my theory! :twocents:

I'm betting that when their conversation continues in February and Jack yells "Kate, dammit, RUN!", Kate will reply along the lines of "I CAN'T run, we're not on OUR Island, we don't have a BOAT, Sawyer has a gun to his head, and I'm not leaving YOU at the hands of these maniacs!"
That's my theory! :twocents:
YES! I swore I wouldn't get in to this fray, but this, IMO, explains Kate's statement of "I CAN'T"...she literally can't.

I agree wholeheartedly that she doesn't want to and won't leave Jack behind because of the incredible situation they're all in, the hardships they've endured, and most importantly the deep friendship and concern she has for him. I also agree she chose Sawyer.

But you've hit the nail on the head in the "I can't" theory department as far as I'm concerned. Thank you.

I think it was a given she wasn't leaving without Sawyer too. She'd said those exact words or words to that effect to Sawyer how many times in EMFH and the last episode? I have no problems with her also not wanting to leave Jack behind and telling him so. Obviously she understood the import of his words, that he had done something drastic to buy them time. I loved her sticking to the LTDA mantra. It shows real growth in the woman who was always running. She chose Sawyer as her lover, but still would not leave her friend to the wolves if she could help it.