First, I have to say a wonderful actor. That aside. She is evil. Ummmm....CARRIE. Her favorite book. A learned person would like that book of course, even love, however, "favorite book" that is odd. For somoeone who is a doctor. "HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE A WOMANS SCORN." I think shes out to burn it down.

Also, she is setting Jack up for murder. Juliet enjoys torturing others to benefit either her own end or her end and benrys. These are a few of her favorite things.

The biggest tell (part of the great acting) is the evil on her pie. How she waits for Jack to botch the surgery. How she is calm when presenting the kill sawyer speech to kate before putting a bag on her head. How plane jane she is when confronted the most scary of events. Even if Benry should not be in charge, there are other alternatives than killing him. Jack is at least acting in self defense and is not murdering ben at this point. Defense of others too. An enlightened society the others purport has no rules of justice.

I thought the three semi-cliff hanging endings were kind of predictable. Also thought there were cool beams of sunlight before Eko's funeral considering what his stick said.

Yup, there are counterpoints to this...but, i put the money on juliet being the bad one and ben being the mockingbird.

The disgrunted drummer.
Best. :mad:

I don't know if I'd say "evil to the core," but I agree that Juliet is not all she seems. I'm thinking she may be the next one we "love to hate"!
I think she definitely has a separate agenda from the rest of the Others.

YES she is evil...but evil to Benry......Carrie is her favorite book...She is a woman burned.....by him

I don't know if I'd say "evil to the core," but I agree that Juliet is not all she seems. I'm thinking she may be the next one we "love to hate"!
I think she definitely has a separate agenda from the rest of the Others.

Ok, but, if we water that down a bit.........how do you characterize accesory to premeditated murder of Ben? I agree she is not all she seems, however, setting up a murder of the leader of the others in a sneaky way, is about as evil is as evil gets. Ben, was the bad guy we loved to hate. Soon, that will flip......he really is "good" sorta. In a utilitarian mixed up may. At least I suspect, he is "better" than juliet.

CARRIE.

BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE. JULIET.

I don't know that she's "evil" but I have no idea what her game is.

Some times she seems uber creepy, then others she just seems outright lost. Like when she says that she good at taking orders, and complains about free will at the book club. She seems desperate, perhaps, and that can make people do all kinds of bad things.

Ok, but, if we water that down a bit.........how do you characterize accesory to premeditated murder of Ben? I agree she is not all she seems, however, setting up a murder of the leader of the others in a sneaky way, is about as evil is as evil gets.

What do you really know about Ben, or the motives of the others collectively? How would you characterise informants for the US/British governments for rogue regimes? Many have 'set up' their leaders for the fall... are they patriots? Freedom fighters? or Evil?

IMO, and it's just my opinion, but until we find out what the others REAL intentions are, I'll hold back the Evil comments.

I do agree she is either evil and calculating or calculating. Did she break Jack or just guide him towards self-destruction? One thing is/was clear....Jack made a choice and felt he chose it himself. I think both Satre and Camus would be proud or terrified !

What do you really know about Ben, or the motives of the others collectively? How would you characterise informants for the US/British governments for rogue regimes? Many have 'set up' their leaders for the fall... are they patriots? Freedom fighters? or Evil?

IMO, and it's just my opinion, but until we find out what the others REAL intentions are, I'll hold back the Evil comments.

I thik that is a comletely valid argument. SAFE! It all depends again on the definition of "good" and that played debate.

But, even for the sake of argument, perhaps both are evil. Or differnent levels of moral decency b/c of a desire to "save the world as we know it."

One thing I know, Juliet acts much like Benry. Cold. Calculating. Manipuling. Soft and manipulative. She is at least playing Benry or she is with him. Either way, she is using Jack as a mere mean to achieve an end. Whether that is to kill Benry or test Jack's free will. (not on the jacob's list maybe why he's not good afterall). But, to even put a man to such a test is evil. To torture others to gain his trust is not good.

Unless necessary to save planet. That's the counter argument. But there is division between the others it would seem. If there is division, then there is at a maximum, "bad" others and at minimum "good" others, and also there are "grey" others. Somewhere in between.

I hypothesize based on her conduct, she is evil. Look at the way she treats Ben. She kicks him out of the book club. Minor so far. However, she excludes him. Xrays. Plays with Ben's mind. Ummmmmmmmmmm...I'm ready for the flip. Ben is good. She is evil. Hell hath no fury like Carrie AKA JULIET

BEST,
Best.

Which Others do you think were part of Juliet's blanket statement that they've been wanting to get rid of Benry? Because you would think she would drop the act once the surgery started if the people who were around there "agreed" with her. But if the other ones (Zeke?--Can't remember his real name) are on Benry's side, then I suppose she would have to act "normal."

I think she is evil, but I LOVE HER. :biggrin:

Which Others do you think were part of Juliet's blanket statement that they've been wanting to get rid of Benry? Because you would think she would drop the act once the surgery started if the people who were around there "agreed" with her. But if the other ones (Zeke?--Can't remember his real name) are on Benry's side, then I suppose she would have to act "normal."

I think she is evil, but I LOVE HER. :biggrin:

I love her too. Nothing like an Evil Woman!

Now, it would seem there are Others with her. Aside from what she claims, we see this briefly in the way people act with regard her (deference) and the one's who enjoy her book club. The book club scene to me was very telling. It was symbolic of factions or cliques. It is also, human nature.

It would be perfect for her to knock off Ben, have the Others kill Jack because of what he's done now, and her to take power without a trace to her.

However, I hope to hell Ben wakes up. I think Ben is better than Juliet (and that she is evil) b/c he has lesser punishments for offfenses. Juliet is ready to forget any kind of trial and skip to judge, jury, and executioner. And, having an innocent do it for her. Versus, when that kid got in troble, or alex, Ben is not ready to just whack em. They go to a jail. It seems like there is some system of rules with Ben. Juliet is a cold blooded killer. She saved Jack to Kill Ben in the water.

I hope they leave Ben and Juliet alive and we find this out this year. Whatever happeened to that African American woman Other from last season by the way. The one who hung out with Walt?

Whatever happeened to that African American woman Other from last season by the way. The one who hung out with Walt?

YEAH! What DID happen to her? Hmm... She was pretty evil, too. As evil as Juliet, me thinks.

[I think both Satre and Camus would be proud or terrified ![/quote]
Correct. One, this is an existentialist situtation without a true answer except that what they make. Ummm. Fate is what they make. Or, there are morally correct answers, but, we don't know them yet. I think they would be proud and have a good counterarguement that would be difficult to respond to other than with a middle finger. Mostly, that's a good argumet against existentialism I find and moral subjectivity.

Ok, off the college train of thought.
100%
YEAH! What DID happen to her? Hmm... She was pretty evil, too. As evil as Juliet, me thinks.

Ok, I ain't loco here. Where is that lady? Hanging with Jacob? Odd she's missing. I thought she was a good character.

YEAH! What DID happen to her? Hmm... She was pretty evil, too. As evil as Juliet, me thinks.


That was Mrs. Klugh...I was wondering the same thing...maybe she's back on the main island?

That was Mrs. Klugh...I was wondering the same thing...maybe she's back on the main island?

The answer is a Klugh. Mrs. Klugh. That's probably exactly where she is. Good call.

Swinging back to the original point of the thread, Is Juliet Carrie and Ben a Mockingbird? Ben clearly has better taste in fiction. Has Juliet had foreign objects thrown at her like Carrie giving her this bloody thirst for revenge against Ben? She definitely has it in for him.

Scroll down or up.....Juliet is evil. That's right I said evil. EVIL TO THE CORE.

Scroll down or up.....Juliet is evil. That's right I said evil. EVIL TO THE CORE.


Not a fan of Anne Frank I assume?

I agree. There is something more sinister about Juliet. Like Ben she is manipulative and calculating but there is a cruelness to her.

I remember the scene when Juilet takes Kate back to her cage after she begged Jack to do the surgery for Sawyer's life. Kate was in anguish over Jack's cold response. Juliet takes the opporunity to tell Kate she is sorry that Kate was unable to save Sawyer's life, adding more trauma. Why was that even necessary? To make her feel partially responsible for his death, guilty she could not do more to save him and shift the blame off of Picket for pulling the trigger and onto Jack for causing Sawyer's death?

But the funny thing is I felt this way about Ben during Season 2. It makes think of how Ben had said not even God sees this island. There is no pure good or bad, just choices, just survival.

I can't wait to see Juilet's and Ben's flashbacks.

What do you really know about Ben, or the motives of the others collectively? How would you characterise informants for the US/British governments for rogue regimes? Many have 'set up' their leaders for the fall... are they patriots? Freedom fighters? or Evil?

IMO, and it's just my opinion, but until we find out what the others REAL intentions are, I'll hold back the Evil comments.

I am not so sure I would hold back on evil comments as the others have killed for no reason....no matter how they think they are the good guys they have killed innocent people over and over again...that is evil...

Thank golly someone else is wondering where Mrs. Klugh is----she seemed SO important.

she is baaaad!!
she will turn out to be the worst of the bunch.

Ok, but, if we water that down a bit.........how do you characterize accesory to premeditated murder of Ben? I agree she is not all she seems, however,

Well...we don't know for sure that she really wants to kill Ben. Again, this could be part of another one of Ben's plans. They have shown they love playing psychological games. We don't know that she's come up w/ this on her own, or if she planned to go thru w/ it if Jack did agree. (She couldn't have known what Jack's plans were at that point...couldn't know Jack would fight on his own, not trusting her.)

Yes...she's not what she seems.
100%
Not a fan of Anne Frank I assume?

*g* Well, dear Anne was a teenager. And a rarity--an optimistic teen.
She'd also lived a sheltered life.
But I do love that quote. When I read that book as a teen, Anne was my hero.

I don't trust her either. I think she is setting up all of the Others. I think she wants to be the new leader, because the rest of the Others seemed concerned about Ben, when Juliet was not (because she wants him dead, do she can become the new leader of the others.) I think Juliet is setting up everyone including Jack. We know Juliet does not get along well with Ben (we saw at the book club,) so it would make sense.... (to me at least :p)

*g* Well, dear Anne was a teenager. And a rarity--an optimistic teen.
She'd also lived a sheltered life. lol, arguably Lija, Anne lived through more than most of us will ever tragically know.

My point of bringing Anne was the simple belief that nobody is evil to the CORE... do you think Juliette would beat her own children? Maybe kick the family puppy or kitten? :eek2:

Darn I miss the days when all you had to do was check hat color to see who the good guys were in the show. It would fit in so well with the Black & White theme they used in some Lost episodes.

Too early to say if Juliette is evil to the core, but the possiblility is one reason I enjoy her character.

I for one, do not believe that Juliet is evil--er, or if she's evil she has a bothered conscience about it based on her reactions during the opening of the book club scene. I will not rush to judgement. Personally, I believe she is being forced to act the way she is by someone higher in ranks than she and Ben.

After two + seasons of this show, haven't we all learned that nothing is ever what is seems at first? I think one of the key bits of the first 6 eppies of S3 is this exchange:

JACK [laughing]: If you could leave this island why would you still be here?
BEN: Yes, Jack, why would we be here?

Until we find out the answer to that, "good" and "evil" are hopelessly limited terms to use for people that, let's not forget, we know as much about as we did the Losties after about 3 episodes of season 1. Look how much our at.....perspective has changed about them all since that time.

She's scary, but delightfully beautful. Nuff said.

That was Mrs. Klugh...I was wondering the same thing...maybe she's back on the main island?

I thought I read here in a thread they couldn't get the actress this season so they just dropped it. It IS kind of glaring, isn't it? It was seeming to be one of the people in power as much as Juliet.

Maybe the actress read they wanted a Ben-Klugh-Juliet love triangle and sprinted away ;)

All things aside, we cannot pass judgement until we know why they feel bound to stay on the island. If they need to tsay there, we need to know why they want the losties there.

Juliet is clever and cold and has that ultra condescending grin. My bet is she's a tad more evil than Ben. However she will probably try to make Jack & everyone else trust her first, then when they're not expecting it, wham! Evil! :eek2: