When Alex jumped out and started knocking people out with her slingshot, the first thing that went through my mind was the Bible story of David & Goliath!

I took from that that these Others may seem to be in total control and impossible to escape from, but everyone has a weakness and sometimes an easy solution - one right in front of your face - can be the trick that subdues your enemy. You just have to find the weakness and exploit it.

Sayid made a comment in this episode about only believing what he could see, yet he is a devout Muslim and prays to Allah (who I assume he cannot see). It's the kind of statement an atheist or strict scientist would make, not a spiritual person!

You had the church scene and the comment by the preacher that Kevin had been a member since he was a child - implying that Kevin had a strong Christian devotion.

What were we the viewers supposed to learn from all of these references? I think I'm missing a connection somewhere ......

What other spiritual references did you see in this episode??? :)

Nice catch on the slingshot...

I think Peter was buried on the same spot he died... But not really sure..

don't forget the Jesus stick and Eko's funeral

don't forget the Jesus stick and Eko's funeral
Well I didn't want to put EVERY instance in my original post since I was hoping others would want to chime in! Thanks for posting that. I'm also hoping that someone will catch something vague that I may have missed! :biggrin:

Peter may have been buried the same place he died? Wasn't Peter the one who said, "Upon this rock I shall build my church"? I keep going back to "rock" references because Kate & Sawyer are breaking and hauling rocks. And Ben likened their tiny island to Alcatraz which was nicknamed "The Rock."

Now that I've written that out, I'm sure there is a rock correlation between this show and the Bible. But what is it exactly and why is it included???

Wasn't the quote featured on the "Jesus stick" a clue about where Locke should go look for Jack, Kate & Sawyer? -- What was it, "Life your eyes up and look north" or something? Is the little island north of the big island?? Was Eko clairvoyant too after the hatch ex/implosion?

There was also the name "JACOB" mentioned when Pickett said, "Jack wasn't even on Jacob's list." Jacob is a name from the Bible.

Genesis 13:14 Lift up your eyes and look north

John 3:05 Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Those were both seen on Eko's stick.

The Marshall references the Feast of the Ascension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_the_Ascension), and the fact that many holy day (of obligation?) have passed since they last spoke.

Kate's name in this episode is Monica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Monica), who was a saint herself, and the mother of St. Augustine.

I thought the specific mentioning of the Feast of Ascension was interesting, but I'm not Catholic or Christian for that matter, so perhaps that isn't so strange. The Wiki article that ame en peine linked does list some interesting superstions regarding the Feast of Ascension, a couple relating specifically to afflictions to one's eyes . . . :eek2:

Ok, Peter may not have been buried where he died, but apparently Mohammed has.
From this site (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=699&letter=M):

The last three years of Mohammed's life were marked by a steady increase of power. In the eighth year of the Hegira (630) he entered the city of Mecca as a conqueror, showing great forbearance toward his old enemies. This event decided his eventual supremacy over the whole of Arabia. Other conquests extended his authority to the Syrian frontier and as far south as Ṭa'if; and in the following years embassies poured in from the different parts of the peninsula bringing the submission of the various tribes. Mohammed's death occurred in the eleventh year of the Hegira, after he had been ill with a fever for over a week. He was buried where he died, in the apartment of 'A'ishah; and the spot is now a place of pilgrimage.


And some even more interesting:
When the prophet died, opinion differed as to where he should be buried. Some said: “We should bury him in his Mosque.” Another said: “We should bury him next to his Companions.” Abu Bakr then said: ‘I heard the Messenger of God (s) say: “Whenever a Prophet died he was buried where he died!”

As soon as I heard Jacob I immediately thought of the biblical reference of Jacob's Ladder ... and I was like 'oh boy the purgatory people are gonna come out of the woodwork again'.

Here's the abridged version of it:



Jacob's Ladder refers to a ladder to heaven described in Genesis (28:11-19)

Jacob left Beersheba and went to Haran. And he came to the place and stayed there that night, because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it!

I am a Christian, a Pastor in fact, and I think that the connection to the spiritual side of Lost is a decoy. We have had tonw of Catholic dogma introduced, mixed in with accurate scripture references, with that said, I am thankful that so many people here are really digging in and getting a feel for what might be happening with the losties and the recurrent faith implications.

I think folks should be very careful that they do not take the Christian or Catholic hints or clues out of context. Once a form of legalism takes root, like traditionalism in the feast of the ascension, we get into a whol host of convoluted jargin.

The island in my humble opinion is tapping into the psyche of these folks, and at the core of some, not all is spirituality; be that Islam, Christianity, or Islam.

Interesting how the Northern Island seems to have nothing to do with all that can happen on the Southern Island. Meaning, the big picture is that there is paradementional shift with the Southern Island (visions and such), while on the Northern Island there is straight business as usual. Like an old fortress....

Oh well! February is a long way off... :(
100%
Gee, next time I should use spell check. LOL

I looked up the Genesis Jesus stick reference and noticed that, according to the online bible I was looking at, the quote proceeded to tell Abraham to look north, south east and west:

14 Yahweh said to Abram, after Lot was separated from him, "Now, lift up your eyes, and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward,

15 for all the land which you see, I will give to you, and to your offspring forever.

16 I will make your offspring as the dust of the earth, so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then your seed may also be numbered.

17 Arise, walk through the land in its length and in its breadth; for I will give it to you."

Abraham is the grandfather of Jacob, great-grandfather of Benjamin. Possibly these things have no connections, I just wanted to take a look at the context of the "look north" quote on the Jesus stick.

Going to heaven ...

As soon as I heard JACOB I immediately thought of the Jacob's ladder in the Bible. Basically, Jacob goes to sleep one night and dreams of a ladder connecting earth and heaven. He sees angels apparently using it to get back and forth to heaven.

Also, the marshal mentions the Feast of the Ascension when Jesus leaves earth after his resurrection and ascends into heaven.

The more I think about this the more I'm convinced that the Others are fallen angels trying to get back into heaven.

I looked up the Genesis Jesus stick reference and noticed that, according to the online bible I was looking at, the quote proceeded to tell Abraham to look north, south east and west:

14 Yahweh said to Abram, after Lot was separated from him, "Now, lift up your eyes, and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward,

15 for all the land which you see, I will give to you, and to your offspring forever.

16 I will make your offspring as the dust of the earth, so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then your seed may also be numbered.

17 Arise, walk through the land in its length and in its breadth; for I will give it to you."


I think its worth noting this full context. I wouldn't make too much of the actual biblical/religious aspect, but the full story is interesting.

Abram was being given land by God. The land would be ruled by his descendants after several generations (400 years I think) of hardship (I forget the context of the hardship). He had also just asked Lot (his nephew) to go find his own place to live – Lot picked Sodom, the wicked city. Furthermore, Abram had just left Egypt where he had gotten rich, basically by surreptitiously prostituting his wife to the King.

In the context of lost, Abram had some baggage (made some morally questionable choices regarding his wife) as do all the lost characters. Still be chosen, he was given a great deal of land (like an island?) but which would come with hardships. And tied to this story is the idea of a good and chosen land versus a bad place which would soon be destroyed (Sodom) and we do have two islands. I just wonder if the “Look North” reference isn’t more generally tied to the full passage and to the idea of inheritance or being given a large region of land, or more simply being given a great gift; but a gift that comes with strings or hardships.

Sorry for essentially posting the same thing twice.

This one may freak you out ... in the bible jacob had 13 children. the last one he named BENJAMIN.

Well I didn't want to put EVERY instance in my original post since I was hoping others would want to chime in! Thanks for posting that. I'm also hoping that someone will catch something vague that I may have missed! :biggrin:

Peter may have been buried the same place he died? Wasn't Peter the one who said, "Upon this rock I shall build my church"? I keep going back to "rock" references because Kate & Sawyer are breaking and hauling rocks. And Ben likened their tiny island to Alcatraz which was nicknamed "The Rock."

Now that I've written that out, I'm sure there is a rock correlation between this show and the Bible. But what is it exactly and why is it included???

Jesus called Simon "Peter", which translates as "Rock" and said "Upon this rock I shall build My Church."
This indicates that St Peter was nick-named "Rock" for a darn good reason (really steady guy, very strong, firm etc).

i'm glad so many people noticed these parallels. you noticed a even more than i did, louisiana. i did some checking up on one in particular and found something pretty interesting. check out my post on the subject "feast of the ascension":
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=64406

I am a Christian, a Pastor in fact, and I think that the connection to the spiritual side of Lost is a decoy. We have had tonw of Catholic dogma introduced, mixed in with accurate scripture references, with that said, I am thankful that so many people here are really digging in and getting a feel for what might be happening with the losties and the recurrent faith implications.
I think folks should be very careful that they do not take the Christian or Catholic hints or clues out of context. Once a form of legalism takes root, like traditionalism in the feast of the ascension, we get into a whol host of convoluted jargin.


I don't think the religious references in Lost are a decoy. Two of the show's driving forces, Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindlof, have both been pretty upfront that their religions have influenced the show. It seems their religions are important to them, so it's not likely they would treat religion with such a throwaway attitude as to make it a decoy. Note that CS Lewis' Narnia is one of their influences.
From:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,1142824_3||1141710|1_0_,00.html
"Their collaboration is most clearly evident in season 2's Jack-Locke reason-versus-faith theme, inspired by the spiritual worldviews of Lindelof (Jewish and empirical-minded) and Cuse (Catholic and willing to leap beyond logic). ''The collision of our perspectives plays out on the show,'' says Cuse, who cites Narnia as one touchstone for the kind of fantastical otherworld Lost is trying to create. ''Both of us are searching for the answers to the bigger questions of how you lead a meaningful life, and we've chosen to use the show to explore those questions.''

Jacob's Ladder refers to a ladder to heaven described in Genesis (28:11-19)

Jacob left Beersheba and went to Haran. And he came to the place and stayed there that night, because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it!

Going to heaven ...

As soon as I heard JACOB I immediately thought of the Jacob's ladder in the Bible. Basically, Jacob goes to sleep one night and dreams of a ladder connecting earth and heaven. He sees angels apparently using it to get back and forth to heaven.

Also, the marshal mentions the Feast of the Ascension when Jesus leaves earth after his resurrection and ascends into heaven.

The more I think about this the more I'm convinced that the Others are fallen angels trying to get back into heaven.
I like that idea, in a sci-fi way.

Also, the sunlight rays (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1196&pos=504) beaming on the Losties gathered around Eko's body are called a "Jacob's ladder". There are some posts about it on the Tiberius thread.

In another thread (the one about how good it is to see Jack back again) two of us mentioned that we saw strong parallels between these first six episodes and the novel A Tale of Two Cities. That novel has decidedly Christian overtones of sacrificial love and laying down one's life for one's friends as the ultimate sacrifice. Since they have chosen that title to be the title of Episode 1 of this season, they must have considered its implications. With CSLewis and JRR Tolkein as influences, Cuse and Lindelof are going to create a story that has an action-filled plot on the surface with strong spiritual connotations underneath. For me at least, "how to lead a meaninful life" definitely has a spiritual component.