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CrimsonRabbit
01-09-2007, 04:01 AM
As Season 2 made the Empiricism/Science vs. Faith debate it's centerpiece, I believe Season 3 is all about Free Will.

*The most tell-tale clue was Juliet's quote "And here I am thinking that free will still actually exists on this [island]," which kicked off the season. It's placement at the start to me was a clear signal that it was to be taken as a tone-setter for the entire season.
*Colleen tells Sun it's "not my decision to make" after Sun tell her to leave the boat and let her go. So who's decision is it? Perhaps Ben.
*Ben wanted Jack to do the surgery of his own free will, even if Jack had to be broken/brainwashed into thinking he was actually exercising free will, and you have the real basis for the Juliet vs. Ben feud: not so much over power but over how free "free will" needs to be.

*The Skate situation: By putting Sawyer and Kate together in stressful situations, having Kate wear an alluring sun dress, having Kate say she loves Sawyer (whether she believed it at the time or not) to save his life from Pickett, putting her in a cage she could escape from and keeping Sawyer in one she could easily break into -- all this to me smacks of Ben creating a situation that would bring them together. So in the future when they are back at the beach, back to their normal lives, will they still love each other so openly, knowing that the love they expressed at the Hydra was engineered? Will Kate run to Jack just to prove she still has the free will to love who she wants to?

*Sun: Shown to be a habitual liar since she was very young -- can she ever really choose to tell the truth or because of her nature does she have no choice but to always lie?

*Desmond: Knowing the future, are you still free to change it? When Desmond saved Aaron and Claire with his makeshift lightning rod, was that his choice... or did knowing the future preordain his choice. Is he a slave to the future?

*Eko: Was given the choice: repent or die. But should you repent, if the definition of the sin is set by another, in his case Smokey? Can you really repent for something that you think is not to be repented? From Smokey's perspective: Is an apology gotten at the barrel of a gun a real apology, given freely? What is the worth of a free apology? If a coreced apology or change of heart is the best available option, do you take it?

*Kate: She's been the runner since the first episode. The "I Do " flashback tested this, as she proclaimed to the marshall she had the free will to change who she was and finally stay put. But was staying put really a free choice... or one she needed to make because she felt imprisoned by her running nature?

Justjared
01-09-2007, 01:27 PM
Great summary. I like it.

LightMeDark
01-09-2007, 08:11 PM
Free Will is such a slippery subject, hard to get a hold on. Thanks, CR, for pointing out some examples of that theme that have aired this season.

jasoncountdown
01-09-2007, 10:03 PM
I originally read your theory in the "losing interest?" thread over in Lost Talk CR, and I have to say that im a fan. You pretty much took two of what I thought were the lamest storylines of the mini-season(Eko, and Kate/Sawyer) and at least tied them into what could be a grand, ambitious concept of the season in a convincing way. For that, I salute you.

myothercarisflight815
01-09-2007, 10:26 PM
Wonderful CR! I can totally see how this is a major theme and character development point. They are not the survivors they think they are...

penyours
01-10-2007, 05:58 AM
Oh great to see this thread started! it will be interesting to see how free will plays into the upcoming episodes. Though is this thread better off in general theories where it may get more traffic?

Marcus
02-08-2007, 03:49 AM
For those who have not seen Episode 307, "Not In Portland" proceed with caution... SPOILERS ahead!


So it would appear that Juliet cannot leave the island... Okay, I did not see that one coming! :surprise:

That's what I love about a character's first centric episode. We usually find out that they were a lot different than the person they are now. Maybe not in the case of every character, but it seems to be recurring .

Now back to Juliet's inability to leave... one might say she has "lost" the gift of free will, so I think this season definetely has free will as an over-arching theme.

Great theory and post, Crimson Rabbit! ;)

the-non-magician
02-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Free Will is such a slippery subject, hard to get a hold on. Thanks, CR, for pointing out some examples of that theme that have aired this season.

The key to getting that grip, is to understand that free will exists ONLY for sapient conscious beings. It is the ability of sapient consciousnesses to use moral decision-making to affect the outcome of a causal event that creates free will. Nowhere else does it exist.

LightMeDark
02-11-2007, 06:50 PM
I can see that, and I like that definition. There are also arguments saying there is no such thing as free will or that free will is more limited than we may think. It is those arguments that make the grip even harder to achieve.

rjst
02-15-2007, 05:21 PM
Desmond's full name is Desmond David Hume. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume
talks about the philosopher David Hume. Note 2.7 under Legacy, Free Will versus Determinism.

RiL
02-18-2007, 07:26 PM
As Season 2 made the Empiricism/Science vs. Faith debate it's centerpiece, I believe Season 3 is all about Free Will.

*The most tell-tale clue was Juliet's quote "And here I am thinking that free will still actually exists on this [island]," which kicked off the season. It's placement at the start to me was a clear signal that it was to be taken as a tone-setter for the entire season.
*Colleen tells Sun it's "not my decision to make" after Sun tell her to leave the boat and let her go. So who's decision is it? Perhaps Ben.
*Ben wanted Jack to do the surgery of his own free will, even if Jack had to be broken/brainwashed into thinking he was actually exercising free will, and you have the real basis for the Juliet vs. Ben feud: not so much over power but over how free "free will" needs to be.

*The Skate situation: By putting Sawyer and Kate together in stressful situations, having Kate wear an alluring sun dress, having Kate say she loves Sawyer (whether she believed it at the time or not) to save his life from Pickett, putting her in a cage she could escape from and keeping Sawyer in one she could easily break into -- all this to me smacks of Ben creating a situation that would bring them together. So in the future when they are back at the beach, back to their normal lives, will they still love each other so openly, knowing that the love they expressed at the Hydra was engineered? Will Kate run to Jack just to prove she still has the free will to love who she wants to?

*Sun: Shown to be a habitual liar since she was very young -- can she ever really choose to tell the truth or because of her nature does she have no choice but to always lie?

*Desmond: Knowing the future, are you still free to change it? When Desmond saved Aaron and Claire with his makeshift lightning rod, was that his choice... or did knowing the future preordain his choice. Is he a slave to the future?

*Eko: Was given the choice: repent or die. But should you repent, if the definition of the sin is set by another, in his case Smokey? Can you really repent for something that you think is not to be repented? From Smokey's perspective: Is an apology gotten at the barrel of a gun a real apology, given freely? What is the worth of a free apology? If a coreced apology or change of heart is the best available option, do you take it?

*Kate: She's been the runner since the first episode. The "I Do " flashback tested this, as she proclaimed to the marshall she had the free will to change who she was and finally stay put. But was staying put really a free choice... or one she needed to make because she felt imprisoned by her running nature?

After that last episode you may very well be right

GaiusKnight
02-23-2007, 12:52 AM
I like this theory. It makes the 3rd season look a lot more appealing.

thecreature
02-23-2007, 08:10 PM
I have thought about this free-will/fate thing for a while now and if Charlie dies...that will put a nail in the coffin for free-will...so I am thinking if this turns out to be a central theme this season (I do think this) then if Charlie dies it would have to happen at the end of the season...if he dosen't then long live free-will! What do yall think?

Dezdmona
02-23-2007, 08:27 PM
I think that if Charlie does eventually die it will be because he chooses to sacrifice himself, not because of some random accident.

Before he or any other character can "move on" (whether it be actually leaving the Island or dying) they need to to let go of the demons from their past or come to some sort of inner resolution with it.