did anyone notice that the book that the guy guarding Carl was reading was Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of TIme? Did anyone see what notes he had written in the book? Is this a hint that there is something to do with black holes? I read some of the book before and can't really remember what it was about, but remember black holes being in there a little. Thoughts?

that post was both a sad reminder and a testament to our inability to A) finish a whole book and B) retain what we learned. Damn T.V. culture!!! We can debate lost and remember almost every little detail, why not focus that energy just a tad in the direction of usefull knowledge.

Couldn't see the notes in the book, but I did take this as a nod to the possibility of black holes, time distortion, etc...

Saw the book title, but not the notes. Apparently "lost time" is an important clue in this episode.

You know what's even worse, I've seen Stephan Hawking do lectures on his work and I still don't recall exactly what that book is about. I do remember him saying that he doesn't think people can travel through time, but that small particles probably can. And he made some big remarks about black holes
that is counterintuitive to what we generally assume about them.

Isn't the book about how the universe works, generally? Black holes and such are discussed, but it was a basic physics textbook, only more interesting, with just one equation.

Edit: http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Time-Stephen-Hawking/dp/0553380168/sr=8-1/qid=1170912794/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6363436-6448067?ie=UTF8&s=books

"Stephen Hawking, one of the most brilliant theoretical physicists in history, wrote the modern classic A Brief History of Time to help nonscientists understand the questions being asked by scientists today: Where did the universe come from? How and why did it begin? Will it come to an end, and if so, how? Hawking attempts to reveal these questions (and where we're looking for answers) using a minimum of technical jargon. Among the topics gracefully covered are gravity, black holes, the Big Bang, the nature of time, and physicists' search for a grand unifying theory. This is deep science; these concepts are so vast (or so tiny) as to cause vertigo while reading, and one can't help but marvel at Hawking's ability to synthesize this difficult subject for people not used to thinking about things like alternate dimensions. The journey is certainly worth taking, for, as Hawking says, the reward of understanding the universe may be a glimpse of "the mind of God." --Therese Littleton

I've long suspected Hawking Radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_Radiation) may be how people escape the Island... it's Hawking's theory about the only way stuff can escape (or appear to escape) black holes.

A more precise, but still much simplified view of the process is that vacuum fluctuations cause a particle-antiparticle pair to appear close to the event horizon of a black hole. One of the pair falls into the black hole whilst the other escapes. In order to preserve total energy, the particle which fell into the black hole must have had a negative energy (with respect to an observer far away from the black hole). By this process the black hole loses mass, and to an outside observer it would appear that the black hole has just emitted a particle.

who would want to retain what Hawkng has to say anyhow when his answer to human problems is space colonization.

To me, his hand movements almost indicated that he was drawing, not taking notes in the book. Is that just me or am I correct?

To me, his hand movements almost indicated that he was drawing, not taking notes in the book. Is that just me or am I correct?

I did seem as though he was drawing it looks like dark rectangles on the book.

that post was both a sad reminder and a testament to our inability to A) finish a whole book and B) retain what we learned. Damn T.V. culture!!! We can debate lost and remember almost every little detail, why not focus that energy just a tad in the direction of usefull knowledge.

We have rules here about rudness toward other posters. If you need a refresher..please read the site rules/FAQ...

The book (a brief history of time) might be a bit of foreshadowing of what's going on with Desmond and how he seems to know what's going to happen(did he travel forward in time and then back again?)

Some more books on this subject for anyone who's interested are Time Traveler: A Scientist's Personal Mission to Make Time Travel a Reality by Ronald L. Mallett (about a physics professor who makes it his lifes mission to build a time machine that could transport a man back in time) and Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries by Neil deGrasse Tyson. I haven't read them yet but they're on my reading list.

that post was both a sad reminder and a testament to our inability to A) finish a whole book and B) retain what we learned. Damn T.V. culture!!! We can debate lost and remember almost every little detail, why not focus that energy just a tad in the direction of usefull knowledge.

I am casually familiar with Hawking's work - watched his documentary and listened to the audiobook of BHOT. I retain a certain amount of "big picture" information and pick up on some philosophical stuff, but I don't nearly remember all of it (or probably even most of it).

I don't put fiction in that same category, though. TV and new media does have it's downfalls, and it obviously isn't as good as reading a great book, but intelligent shows like Lost do have some positive virtues. Human stories like the ones portrayed in Lost do teach us empathy and stand on their own literary merits apart from what we learn from "hard science".

It's a really great book, but the kind of book people own and rarely finish cover to cover. I'm willing to bet that when LOST lays some crazy pseodoscience twist on us, that book will be real helpful.

did you guys notice that the guard was flipping thru the book backwards?? implying maybe that time moves backwards instead of zooming ahead.


see you in another life brutha.

did you guys notice that the guard was flipping thru the book backwards?? implying maybe that time moves backwards instead of zooming ahead.


see you in another life brutha.

No I didn't. But when i was rewatching i noticed that it looked like at one point he was drawing or writing something into the book. There also appeared to be some funnel like image. I don't have the book on me.

It seems to me that there is a connection with the fact that black holes can't be seen -- just as the island seems not to be discovered. You only know about it until you're on it and it's too late to escape. The fact that the losties can't escape the island is similar to a black hole in the sense that light cannot even escape. I don't know about the time travel stuff, but if a black hole is anything like a worm hole (or the theory of one), maybe it's suggesting that time is standing still on the island while things happen in the outside world, or maybe vice versa.

But the whole not escaping thing leaves us with the question of Michael and Walt....are they really gone? I don't think so.

In case anyone was interested, I uploaded a scan of that page of the book here: http://i1.tinypic.com/3y43nsx.jpg (warning, it's really big cos I didn't feel like resizing)

It's from the chapter "Black Holes Ain't So Black," so definitely a reference to black holes. ;)

ETA: Screenshot of the scene where Aldo (or however it's spelled) was drawing in the book: http://i6.tinypic.com/2eey2xv.png

Since I recently read Hawkings book, I can confirm that the page he's reading in the book is about worm holes.

I've long suspected Hawking Radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_Radiation) may be how people escape the Island... it's Hawking's theory about the only way stuff can escape (or appear to escape) black holes.

Or, maybe it's just a reference to the fact that Sawyer and Kate were able to escape the island at the expense of Jack (and Juliette) staying.

I can't belive that someone has not already gotten the book, found the page, and told us what the pages say.

You guys are slipping? HA! HA!

Or, maybe it's just a reference to the fact that Sawyer and Kate were able to escape the island at the expense of Jack (and Juliette) staying.

Indeed!

Maybe the only way to escape not just Alcatraz but The Island itself is to leave something, possibly just figuratively, behind.

I'm not sure that this belongs here but the picture of Aldo brought back something I've noticed quite a few times but didn't feel was all that important. It seems an unreasonable amount of people on the island are left handed. I haven't written all of them down but a few that come to mind are Sawyer and Ana Lucia and now Aldo. It just seems to me the ratio is off. I mentioned it to my wife quite a while back but put it on the back burner. It's probably nothing but I thought I would mention it. ( :

This is reminding me of all the Wikipedia entries about the "South Atlantic Flash" and so on and so forth. If we are continuously bombarded with these similar hints, then what else are supposed to assume? Also, I remember that Hawking's book did pertain to black holes, but also the mathematics and science surrounding his theories. Tie that in to the Valenzetti Equation and what that means with The Numbers, and my head is about to explode....math here, math there, math frickin everywhere.

I've long suspected Hawking Radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_Radiation) may be how people escape the Island... it's Hawking's theory about the only way stuff can escape (or appear to escape) black holes.



Thus the answer is that Shepard and Jules are the two elements necessary for one to break away from the "black hole"/island.

Jack is being pulled in (he's got a lot of negative issues going on) and Jules is being pushed out (or so it would appear to those outside looking in.

At least, that's what Hawking would say.
100%
Indeed!

Maybe the only way to escape not just Alcatraz but The Island itself is to leave something, possibly just figuratively, behind.

In response to both Crimson and Craddle:

Do I think Jules will leave...prob not.

But to make this theory (Hawking's) work, Jules will leave.

This way it was the girl (Ben's daughter..forgot her name) and Jack who have to stay so that Kate and Sawyer could leave.

Indeed!

Maybe the only way to escape not just Alcatraz but The Island itself is to leave something, possibly just figuratively, behind.

One leaves their negative aspects behind to emerge from the island a more positive or "good" person? That would fit in with all of our Losties that have died finding redemption just before death.

Well, seeing as I have the book I've scanned the pages that Aldo was looking at. It's not the same edition, but it's the exact same pictures and text that are on the pages he's looking at. From "A Brief History Of Time", chapter 7: Black Holes Ain't So Black, pgs. 100-101.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/KOsterberg/random/blackholes.jpg?t=1171142784

Well, seeing as I have the book I've scanned the pages that Aldo was looking at. It's not the same edition, but it's the exact same pictures and text that are on the pages he's looking at. From "A Brief History Of Time", chapter 7: Black Holes Ain't So Black, pgs. 100-101.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/KOsterberg/random/blackholes.jpg?t=1171142784


Interesting that in 2004, Hawking conceded that his original theories on black holes were flawed.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6193

I have been reading A Brief History of Time over the last few weeks, and one of the first, most important things the Stephen Hawking drills into the reader is that time and position in the universe can not be fixed. This means that they are always relative values to the person viewing. For example, before the Big Bang, because there was nothing there to witness anything, time did not exist. time can pass completely differently for one person as it does for another. I just thought that showing the book could prove that the losties are not physically attached to the outside world, and may in fact be in an alternate universe.

Cool - great info. Thanks!

All the time/reality stuff is actually really interesting. It would be cool if they worked that into the show. I'm really hoping that they can still keep the plot within scientific possibility though. That's the reason I'm not crazy about smokey. It's really interesting but seems to drift away from the reality I'm clinging to.

IMO, I just think they threw that in to get us all speculating and tying ourselves in mental knots with theories about space/time.

They're winding us up.
Just IMO.

:biggrin:

If you can't get to grips with Hawking, however do you hope to understand what's being portrayed in Lost?

Put aside the human drama which is great TV.

Put aside the systematic concerns of Dharma and it's associates/backers who are trying to exploit what has been discovered about the place in which the island is, but not yet fully understood.

Put aside those things, and you're left with the core mystery: how EVERYTHING works. The physical universe(s) and sapient consciousness.

I'm not saying the writers of Lost understand and can give the answers; of course they cannot. However, in the spirit of Lynch they can get there via coincidence and intuition via a medium like this TV show and it's followers.

However, understanding Hawking, Einstein, Quantum Mechanics and the like, is pretty much essential, since they describe our best-yet efforts to understand how EVERYTHING works via the other route - science.

This goes back to the last page, but I think there is legitimately something with leaving something else behind before you can leave. If you remember Desmond waiting in the Swan, he needed someone else to come and take his spot before he could leave. It also makes some sense that Jack has come to replace Juliette, a doctor for another doctor of sorts.

Concerning space and time, I am convinced with the time bending and black hole references. There are too many coincidences for this not to be of some substance. Maybe this is how the numbers play into it?

anyone remember the episode of The Simpsons with Ray Ramano and Stephen Hawking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkydEmxJJSQ

Hawking is at the end of the clip and he may be explaining a way that the Island is invisible or perhaps what is happening to the outside world.

The book (a brief history of time) might be a bit of foreshadowing of what's going on with Desmond and how he seems to know what's going to happen(did he travel forward in time and then back again?)

Also, in the more literal sense related to the plotline, perhaps the book Aldo was reading is a leftover piece of literature from before The DHARMA Initiative collapsed?

Since we know that Danielle's research team came to the island to study time (among other reasons), then perhaps the DeGroots were also studying time (among other research areas) before their project was overtaken by The Others?

Okay I was wrong. I was looking at the screen shot of Aldo and he is underlining I think, not drawing. Though he is left handed (Like Sawyer and Michael)... and me!

Aldo didn't have any freaking idea what Hawking was writing about. Rather than look dumb and ask for an easier book he took to drawing his favorite Looney Tunes characters in the page's margins.

All the time/reality stuff is actually really interesting. It would be cool if they worked that into the show. I'm really hoping that they can still keep the plot within scientific possibility though. That's the reason I'm not crazy about smokey. It's really interesting but seems to drift away from the reality I'm clinging to.

Totally agree -- I'm having doubts about bringing all of the aspects around to being possible. Smokey, for one, but also the 4-toed statue (depending on what it means). I love how creative they are while still making the show SO real. Hopefully they hold on to that.

Yea, the page the book is opened to has to do with black holes, event horizons(black hole boundaries), and the joining of black holes.....and then i had to stop reading because my head felt like it was going to explode. But Im pretty sure its page 100 in the book.