Wasn't the biblical Rachel unable to conceive? Wasn't she also married to the biblical Jacob's sister?
100%
Actually, I thought Rachel couldn't conceive for many years, and once she did, she did delivering a breech baby. My biblical knowledge is limited though . . . help!

Rachel and Leah were two sisters married to Jacob. Jacob loved Rachel but Leah was the older sister, so he was tricked by their father into marrying Leah first, then later he married Rachel for love. Leah had many children before Rachel was able to conceive. She eventually had two sons, Joseph and Benjamin. She died in childbirth while giving birth to Benjamin.

http://demo.lutherproductions.com/bibletutor/level1/program/start/people/rachel.htm

Rachel was the younger daughter of Laban, Jacob's uncle. Jacob wanted to marry Rachel and Laban promised her hand if Jacob would work for him for seven years. After seven years Laban slipped Rachel's sister Leah into Jacob's tent in place of Rachel. When Jacob awoke and found himself married to Leah instead of Rachel, he had to work another seven years for Rachel. Rachel was Jacob's favorite wife. At first she had trouble bearing children so she gave her handmaiden Bilhah to Jacob for a concubine. But, later she bore two children, Joseph and Benjamin, who became Jacob's favorite sons. She died giving birth to Benjamin.

I'm really anxious to hear of the fate of Rachel's baby (Juliet's sister, that is).

Yes, clearly the name was chosen to reference both barrenness and the connection to Jacob and Ben. Will there be a character named Bilhah next? :smile:

http://demo.lutherproductions.com/bibletutor/level1/program/start/people/rachel.htm

Rachel was the younger daughter of Laban, Jacob's uncle. Jacob wanted to marry Rachel and Laban promised her hand if Jacob would work for him for seven years. After seven years Laban slipped Rachel's sister Leah into Jacob's tent in place of Rachel. When Jacob awoke and found himself married to Leah instead of Rachel, he had to work another seven years for Rachel. Rachel was Jacob's favorite wife. At first she had trouble bearing children so she gave her handmaiden Bilhah to Jacob for a concubine. But, later she bore two children, Joseph and Benjamin, who became Jacob's favorite sons. She died giving birth to Benjamin.

This is so interesting. Thank you! Is this Joseph the same Joseph who got the coat of many colors?

This is so interesting. Thank you! Is this Joseph the same Joseph who got the coat of many colors?


Yes! His brothers were very jealous of their father's affection for him and sold him into slavery. Jacob adored Joseph above all of his other sons, as he was the first born to his most beloved wife Rachel. Jacob gave Joseph the coat as a symbol of his love which triggered the devious plot of his brothers.

I love that story!

I t hought it was interesting that the guy from Mittelos showed her a slide of a 26 y/o woman with a 70 y/o uterus. Again - think of the choices people would have... HHmmm...

Yes! His brothers were very jealous of their father's affection for him and sold him into slavery. Jacob adored Joseph above all of his other sons, as he was the first born to his most beloved wife Rachel. Jacob gave Joseph the coat as a symbol of his love which triggered the devious plot of his brothers.

That's what material things do to you! Maybe the Others wanted to escape that... (had to try to stay OT here, lol).

Along this line, we could consider the importance of Rachel's first child - Joseph. He saved the Israelite's from Famine by bringing them to Egypt. That is really paraphrased...there is a lot more there, but Joseph was a very very important man in the history of the world.

Thought this was interesting; found it here (http://www.judaism.com/redstring/rachel.asp). Thoughts?

Of places in the world, the Holy Land portrays G-d's glory to Man. And of all the saintly people who walked the Holy Land, the Rachel Emeinu (Our Mother) portrays the glory of man to G-d. What is so special about Rachel? If you are familiar with the Bible, you already know most of the story.

The Bible declares that Jewish Patriarch Isaac was old and unable to see. In order to bestow blessings upon his first-born son, Isaac orders Esau to hunt and prepare venison. However, Rebecca realizes that Jacob truly deserves those blessings, not Esau. She prepares food and dresses Jacob in the clothes of his older brother Esau. After querying his son, Isaac eats the meal that Rebecca has made and blesses Jacob.

Esau returns from hunting and learns that Jacob has taken "his" blessings. Outraged, he vows to kill his younger brother in revenge. Rebecca learns of his plans and commands Jacob to flee to her brother Laban in Haran, where he should take a wife. Jacob does as he is told and escapes to Haran. There, he meets and falls in love with Laban's daughter Rachel. Jacob serves Laban for seven years to earn the right to marry Rachel. However at the last moment, Laban deceives Jacob into marrying Leah. Jacob then must work another seven years for Rachel.

On the surface, it sounds as if Laban has tricked Rachel and Jacob. However, Jewish tradition teaches us differently. Preconditioned by years of Laban's deceptions, Jacob and Rachel prepare signs to identify each other within the silent darkness of the marriage tent. When the time comes, Rachel sees her father escorting Leah to the wedding tent. Knowing that her sister's identity would be quickly discovered, Rachel gives Leah the signs so that she wouldn't be humiliated.

It was a supreme act of selflessness. And what was Rachel's "reward"?

Rachel sees her sister in the arms of the one that she loves. She watches Leah give birth to one son after another, while she remains childless. She pleads with her husband for children only to be told in his frustration that, "G-d has withheld children from you, and not me." Eventually, her prayers are answered and she gives birth to a son, Yosef. However, her joy is not complete and she prayers for another son. G-d answers her prayers. However, the birth of Binyomin is accompanied by her own death. Finally, she is buried "on the road to Efrat -- now Bethlehem." (Genesis 35:16-21) Even in her death, Rachel must remain apart from her husband, who will eventually rest in Hebron with Leah.

Rachel's life was tragic. Yet throughout her suffering, Rachel remained absolutely faithful to G-d above and to her children here in this world below. In fact, the sages state that Jacob buried Rachel on the roadside so that she could pray for them as they were being led into Exile, as Jeremiah 3:15-17 states, "Rachel, weeping for her children, she refuses to be comforted for her children who are gone. Thus said G-d: 'Restrain your voice from weeping, your eyes from shedding tears for there is reward for your labor' declares G-d. 'They shall return from the enemy's land and there is hope for the future' declares G-d: 'Your children shall return to their own country.'

Yes, clearly the name was chosen to reference both barrenness and the connection to Jacob and Ben. Will there be a character named Bilhah next? :smile:

Ha! That's hysterical . . . bring on Bilhah, Zilpah, and Esau! :)

Even though it's fiction, you can learn a lot about the Rachel/Leah/Jacob story by reading The Red Tent (and it's a great book). I didn't even notice Juliet's sister was named Rachel...good catch.

Along this line, we could consider the importance of Rachel's first child - Joseph. He saved the Israelite's from Famine by bringing them to Egypt. That is really paraphrased...there is a lot more there, but Joseph was a very very important man in the history of the world.

So I'm wondering if we'll meet a "Joseph" this season or next, since we have a Benjamin. Very cool!

Another interesting thought here on Joseph. He was able to predict the future through dreams. He dreamed that his brothers would bow down to him AND that is what made them angry and sold him to slavery. He was also able to interpret the pharoah's dream and predict the future famine and save the world. After that he was given a high position and his brothers did indeed bow down to him.

With all the parapsychology stuff going on on the island and all the biblical references this is a link between the two.

Now we have a Jacob, Rachel, Benjamin in the show. I really can't wait for a Joseph to show up.

Another interesting thought here on Joseph. He was able to predict the future through dreams. He dreamed that his brothers would bow down to him AND that is what made them angry and sold him to slavery. He was also able to interpret the pharoah's dream and predict the future famine and save the world. After that he was given a high position and his brothers did indeed bow down to him.

With all the parapsychology stuff going on on the island and all the biblical references this is a link between the two.

Now we have a Jacob, Rachel, Benjamin in the show. I really can't wait for a Joseph to show up.

is that Desmond?

Ben Linus is Rachel's son!

Now we have a Jacob, Rachel, Benjamin in the show. I really can't wait for a Joseph to show up.
I get the weird feeling it'll be Aaron Joseph...

I'm really anxious to hear of the fate of Rachel's baby (Juliet's sister, that is).

that would be Ben.

ties into the aging conundrum presented to Juliet.

note also the link to jacob (picket talked about jacob's list and the brainwashing video said "god loves you as he loved jacob"). jacob was the 3rd patriarch of the israelites. son of isaac and grandson of abraham. he was born a TWIN. his brother esau was the "bad twin" and jacob was "the good one", therefore, although he was younger the their father's inheritance was to pass to the older son by tradition, jacob inherited his father's birthright. it was while he was in exile, before asserting his birthright, that he met the girl RACHEL and married her and her sisters, having many children, the last of which was BENJAMIN. so is the elusive jacob we have heard of ben's father (explaining why ben was born on the island)?

Did I miss somewhere that there is a time lapse or something? If Juliet has been on the Island for 3ish years, and Ben was born 40 yrs ago on the island????

Ha! That's hysterical . . . bring on Bilhah :)Hmmm...we have no "Bilhah". We have a "Bea Klugh". Will that do? :eek2: