What was up with Juliet throwin' Jack a switcheroo in the O.R. completely contradicting their whole agreement tellin' the other to kill Kate and Sawyer if need be? That seemed kinda random, or maybe I just missed somethin. I think she's pullin' more strings than we think. Goin' to all the trouble to give the "T.V. Speech" to Jack just to completely reverse it when things were goin' accordin' to plan.

Whatever Ben told her in that Operating Room must have been good then. :biggrin:

But she flipflopped way before her and ben had their talk

Juliet may have been planning to have Ben killed simply because she wanted to go home. She indicated to Jack that it was more of a coo...that other people wanted a new regime...which could be true. There could be other recruits who are trapped and want out. OR she could have tried to make it look like a larger plan to Jack, to get him to go along with it. To make him think she had the power to help him. When really she could just think that if she got rid of Ben, she might be free.

But once Jack told Tom about her plan...she was out of options (which makes me think she never had anyone with her). If Ben died after that....Tom would suspect she had something to do with it. Him dying didn't offer her as much freedom anymore. But that still didn't mean she'd want to save him.

But he appealed to her and told her he would help her get home if she helped him...so she grasped on to that option with both hands...having nothing else left. She just desperately wants her life back.

She strikes me as kind of desperate woman who appears tough at times...but is really shaking on the inside. She's like an injured puppy when it comes to powerful men for some reason. Even though they keep hurting her...she keeps taking scraps from them...hoping that they'll finally do right by her.

Well, that makes sense except for one thing.

Juliet turns on Jack and sends the other out to capture/kill Kate and Sawyer BEFORE Jack says anything about Juliet's desire to have Ben killed. So, why would she want to upset Jack, mess up his plan to save his friends, say they could even be killed, then pretend she likes Ben, then admit that she did indeed want Ben killed, then change her mind when ben convinces her....this doesn't make any sense

Juliet may have been planning to have Ben killed simply because she wanted to go home. She indicated to Jack that it was more of a coo...that other people wanted a new regime...which could be true. There could be other recruits who are trapped and want out. OR she could have tried to make it look like a larger plan to Jack, to get him to go along with it. To make him think she had the power to help him. When really she could just think that if she got rid of Ben, she might be free.

But once Jack told Tom about her plan...she was out of options (which makes me think she never had anyone with her). If Ben died after that....Tom would suspect she had something to do with it. Him dying didn't offer her as much freedom anymore. But that still didn't mean she'd want to save him.

But he appealed to her and told her he would help her get home if she helped him...so she grasped on to that option with both hands...having nothing else left. She just desperately wants her life back.

She strikes me as kind of desperate woman who appears tough at times...but is really shaking on the inside. She's like an injured puppy when it comes to powerful men for some reason. Even though they keep hurting her...she keeps taking scraps from them...hoping that they'll finally do right by her.

Well, that makes sense except for one thing.

Juliet turns on Jack and sends the other out to capture/kill Kate and Sawyer BEFORE Jack says anything about Juliet's desire to have Ben killed. So, why would she want to upset Jack, mess up his plan to save his friends, say they could even be killed, then pretend she likes Ben, then admit that she did indeed want Ben killed, then change her mind when ben convinces her....this doesn't make any sense

Juliet's tactics are still pretty confusing, aren't they? Maybe her first instructions to her comrades to find K&S and "if necessary, kill them" was a show move to preserve her standing in the group in front of Tom, who is clearly Ben's loyal sidekick. After all, she seemed like a shaky personality right from the start, like QE observed.

At least we've learned her primary motivation is to get off the island and get home. And clutching on to foolish hope, she believed Ben when he told her he'd send her home if she assured he'd survive the surgery.
I think she saw Jack had his own agenda and quickly formulated this flip-flopping sort of plan to keep/win Jack as an ally by saving K&S (after covering her own behind by making herself appear like a loyal Other) and taking the opportunity Ben offered her.

Well, that makes sense except for one thing.

Juliet turns on Jack and sends the other out to capture/kill Kate and Sawyer BEFORE Jack says anything about Juliet's desire to have Ben killed. So, why would she want to upset Jack, mess up his plan to save his friends, say they could even be killed, then pretend she likes Ben, then admit that she did indeed want Ben killed, then change her mind when ben convinces her....this doesn't make any sense

Because I think she never expected Jack to pull a power play. She figured that she had all the power in the situation...offering him a way out if he let Ben die. She thought that Jack wanted his freedom badly enough to listen to her and believe she could help him...that he wouldn't try anything else. Instead he took control and bargained for his friends...which wasn't part of the deal. I think that made her really mad, because he could be jeopardizing her OWN power play...or her own chance at freedom by messing around. If Ben died and it looked like an accident...it was quiet and not messy...but Jack's powerplay was very public and could cause huge fallout. I think it really pissed her off. And she seems to be at the point where she is so focused on her own plight that other people are expendable.

Juliett is messed up. She dates bad men. she involves herself with men who humiliate her then she attempts to have them killed... maybe... or not... I don't think we've seen her think straight beyond a few bursts yet. Everything she does that seems damaged.

Really, why did she kill Danny? Why?

Don

Juliett is messed up. She dates bad men. she involves herself with men who humiliate her then she attempts to have them killed... maybe... or not... I don't think we've seen her think straight beyond a few bursts yet. Everything she does that seems damaged.

Really, why did she kill Danny? Why?

Don

Because Danny went against Ben's orders and he was going to kill Sawyer and Kate (or at least Sawyer). Anf if anything happened to either of them Jack might not fix Ben up. And at that point Juliet had desperately started to believe that Ben would really let her go home if Jack fixed him. Plus I get the sense Ben doesn't tolerate disobediance. Danny was on a rampage because he hates Sawyer and has projected his anger about his wife's death onto him. He was going against Ben's strategy. Killing Danny would be seen as a sign of loyalty on Juliette's part. She feels like she needs to prove herself after her scheme was exposed.

Really, why did she kill Danny? Why?

Nobody liked him?

When she turned to Jack and told him to sew the kidney back up, she meant business. IMO she knew Jack would never "accidentally" let someone die on the table and when Jack purposely swung the cards in his favor, she panicked. I felt panic in her actions. I think Ben is the only one who knows the way off the island.

Think about this...

Juliet wanted Ben dead. She asked Jack to let Ben die on the table. Jack cuts Ben's kidney sack and refuses to fix it until Kate and Sawyer are freed and are safe. If they get away then Jack resumes the surgery and Ben lives. That's not what Juliet wanted. At that point her only hope of having Ben die was if Jack did not continue the surgery. She even convinced the others that Jack would not let Ben die, in order to get them to go after Kate and Sawyer. She believed that her only chance to get rid of Ben was to not give Jack what he wanted.

Think about this...

Juliet wanted Ben dead. She asked Jack to let Ben die on the table. Jack cuts Ben's kidney sack and refuses to fix it until Kate and Sawyer are freed and are safe. If they get away then Jack resumes the surgery and Ben lives. That's not what Juliet wanted. At that point her only hope of having Ben die was if Jack did not continue the surgery. She even convinced the others that Jack would not let Ben die, in order to get them to go after Kate and Sawyer. She believed that her only chance to get rid of Ben was to not give Jack what he wanted.


Oh yeah, I totally went through that analysis. You're... not wrong, but... I still am not sure what we actually saw. Juliet's plans and actions got confused. I don't think we know exactly what happened yet. I still think the murder of Danny Pickett wasn't necessary. I mean, she's a doctor, shoot him in the leg.

Don

Oh yeah, I totally went through that analysis. You're... not wrong, but... I still am not sure what we actually saw. Juliet's plans and actions got confused. I don't think we know exactly what happened yet. I still think the murder of Danny Pickett wasn't necessary. I mean, she's a doctor, shoot him in the leg.

Don
Well, not that Lost is always going for realism, but the whole idea that you shoot someone in the leg or in the arm to avoid killing them is really a farce, created in TV and movies. It's very difficult to hit that small of a target, particularly when it's moving (it's not easy to hit someone running.) You're trained to aim for the torso, as it's the largest target area... this is an issue nearly every time a cop shoots and kills a suspect. If anything, the scene indicated she knew exactly how to handle a firearm. Those that handle guns are trained to do exactly what she did.

For sake of argument, say she would shoot him in the leg. He still has a gun in his hand, can still shoot his target (Sawyer) or turn his gun on her. She only has seconds to act, and has to be sure to incapacitate the target.

I think the main thing that scene proved is that Juliet is weak, not the strong leader that we thought she was before the 3-month break. This episode specifically highlights that she's a prisoner too, and would to anything to get off the island. I'm not convinced there is a specific theory that's important about why Juliet turned on Jack.

I agree with one7 about why she shot Dan in the chest. It was the sensible thing to do.
I also agree with Tarkus about why she told them to bring back Kate & James dead or alive - it was her best chance of making Jack kill Ben.

Her actions make sense if we do not fall into the trap of thinking her goal was to kill Ben, instead her goal was/is to get off the island and go home. She wanted Ben dead because that seemed her best shot at getting off the island. Killing Ben was a tactic or method, not a goal. Then Ben told her to help Kate & James go so Jack would save him and in return Ben would send her home. That would accomplish her goal of going home. So in helping Kate & James she was really working for the same goal as when she tried to get Jack to kill Ben. Her motivation did not flip flop; her methods changed to fit the changing situation.

I agree with one7 about why she shot Dan in the chest. It was the sensible thing to do.
I also agree with Tarkus about why she told them to bring back Kate & James dead or alive - it was her best chance of making Jack kill Ben.

Her actions make sense if we do not fall into the trap of thinking her goal was to kill Ben, instead her goal was/is to get off the island and go home. She wanted Ben dead because that seemed her best shot at getting off the island. Killing Ben was a tactic or method, not a goal. Then Ben told her to help Kate & James go so Jack would save him and in return Ben would send her home. That would accomplish her goal of going home. So in helping Kate & James she was really working for the same goal as when she tried to get Jack to kill Ben. Her motivation did not flip flop; her methods changed to fit the changing situation.


I don't think that we know for sure that Juliet ever really did want Jack to kill Ben. What if, with all the analysis the Others have done on Jack, Juliet was as confident as she said she was in the OR that Jack would 'never "just let someone die?"

What if her video request was really a way to test Jack and see if he trusted her more than Ben? I wouldn't put her or the Others past a stunt like that to test someone and see their reaction.