When they were getting in the boat, I couldn't help but notice that there seemed to be a lot of similarities between these two couples. Thoughts?

I didn't see it, sorry! the only thing maybe is that sawyer and karl both looked unkempt and Kate and alex both have long hair, that's about it.

:biggrin: Perhaps I should elaborate a bit.

Kate/Alex:

They both have daddies they hate (but who doesn't on this show, right) and that are torturing them/hurting them/keeping them against their will in some way. Both are in love with some guy who is being held captive by the others. Both are trying to save said guy at the risk of their own lives. And they both have that long curly hair (kidding). Both have mothers who can't possibly help them: Kate's because she is stuck in the deadend abusive relationship; Alex's because Danielle has slipped in to Crazy Town and is not even aware that her daughter is still out here.

Sawyer/Carl (or Karl):

Both are being tortured by the Others for no obvious reasons. Both are being "rescued" by their tough, strong women. We don't know enough about Carl/Karl to find more parallels, but I think they are there. Carl/Karl reminded me of Sawyer when he was in the boat--it linked in my brain to when Sawyer was lying in the bed in the hatch and was all hazy and being petted by Kate.

See anything now? :confused:

Those are great observations! I do see that. Seemingly this must be intentional. I'm going to share that on episode 074 of our podcast this week. I'll be sure to give you credit!

I hope they keep Karl around. How funny would it be if he totally idolized Sawyer and wanted to be just like him? Imagine how ticked-off Sawyer would get.

I hate to say this but if I was Kate and Sawyer I would have thrown that crazy looking Carl off the boat as soon as I got a chance !

I loved Alex's comment about basket weaving - very Sawyer-esque.

I am starting to notice parallels between groups. The obvious, Juliet and Jack likeness. Sawyer and Alex. Tom and Hurley. Locke and Ben.

Isn't it sort of like real life? There are groups of people every where that have personality complexities and resmblances to other groups.

It's neat to see because of such a large cast of characters and a pretty cool writing team.

What was interesting to me was watching Kate/Sawyer watch Alex and Karl say their tearful goodbyes. It seemed like a strange experience for them given what they'd just been through together.

Sawyer and Kate just made love and got all couply...and then they were ripped from that into this crisis where they kind of reverted back to their whole snarky, bickering vibe. And then they're watching these two crazy kids in love be torn apart...and they're kind of glancing at eachother akwardly...not sure what to do. I think it reminded them that they'd gotten REALLY close a little while ago...and they'd have to deal with that again soon ;). Not that they've changed their minds or anything, just that they're so used to being guarded and snippy and ALONE...and now the way they interact has to change a little. It's not a bad thing, just outside their comfort level.

As for parallels, not sure where this fits in, but it seemed like Sawyer was the most interested/fascinated/disturbed by the video mind f*** that C/Karl was being put through. Kate had to get him to snap out of it.

I hope they keep Karl around. How funny would it be if he totally idolized Sawyer and wanted to be just like him? Imagine how ticked-off Sawyer would get.

LOL That would be the funniest ever. Karl could follow Sawyer around and start coming up with snarky one-liners and nicknames himself!! Hurley would call him "Sawyer Junior" or "little Sawyer" behind his back!

I would like to think that they would use Carl for Info once they got him back, but i really dont see him being usefull with all that brainwashing going on....he could unlock some mystries.

as for the parrelles, i saw them also, but i dont think its worth anything, atleast not now!

After Sawyer and Kate made love, Sawyer said "I love you" and Kate answered with a kiss. Before Alex and Carl's parting, Carl said "I love you", and Alex answered with a kiss.

I hope they keep Karl around. How funny would it be if he totally idolized Sawyer and wanted to be just like him? Imagine how ticked-off Sawyer would get. :biggrin: That would be an awesome side-plot. I hope they do that.

What was interesting to me was watching Kate/Sawyer watch Alex and Karl say their tearful goodbyes. It seemed like a strange experience for them given what they'd just been through together.

Sawyer and Kate just made love and got all couply...and then they were ripped from that into this crisis where they kind of reverted back to their whole snarky, bickering vibe. And then they're watching these two crazy kids in love be torn apart...and they're kind of glancing at eachother akwardly...not sure what to do. I think it reminded them that they'd gotten REALLY close a little while ago...and they'd have to deal with that again soon ;). Not that they've changed their minds or anything, just that they're so used to being guarded and snippy and ALONE...and now the way they interact has to change a little. It's not a bad thing, just outside their comfort level.
I saw that too -- Both Sawyer and Kate seemed uncomfortable with each other, darting furtive sort of scowls at each other when Karl told Alex he loved her. It seemed quite a contrast set up between the two couples. Kind of like Kate and Sawyer were looking at each other in the morning-after light and wondering each to themselves "what have I done". I frankly didn't expect that dynamic right away.

I don't know if it's really a "what have we done?"...more of a "what do we do NOW?". There's so used to a certain dynamic between them...and now everything's changed and they don't know how to act around eachother...LOL. There were certainly moments of tenderness between them last night. I loved how Kate was standing behind Sawyer with her arms wrapped tightly around him long after Danny had been shot and killed by Juliette...like she was afraid to let him go :wub:

They admitted their feelings in a fit of passion...and those feelings haven't left them...but their intincts to hide from them have returned a little bit ;)

I would like to think that they would use Carl for Info once they got him back, but i really dont see him being usefull with all that brainwashing going on....he could unlock some mystries.

as for the parrelles, i saw them also, but i dont think its worth anything, atleast not now!

I think its gonna be really hard and akward for poor Carl. I mean even more so than when AnnaLucia came to the Losties camp. First thing he's a little messed up at the moment because of the happyland video. And second he's an OTHER, how in the world is he going to assimilate into the camp with that kind of aura and title?
poor carl:frown:

I don´t wanna start any kind of shipper discussion or anything, but you could also compare Alex/Carl with Kate/Jack. As in Jack/Alex sacrificed themselves to make sure their loved one could go free.

I din´t know, just a thought. I don´t really know if ther´s suposed to be a parallel here.:confused:

After Sawyer and Kate made love, Sawyer said "I love you" and Kate answered with a kiss. Before Alex and Carl's parting, Carl said "I love you", and Alex answered with a kiss.


Oooh! I didn't notice that. Good one! :o I was so flustered on the edge of my couch wanting them to hurry, that I missed the kiss answer. Love it.

I love the idea that Karl would want to be a mini sawyer! very funny. Very cute about the kiss to! Good catch.

Both Sawyer and Kate seemed uncomfortable with each other, darting furtive sort of scowls at each other when Karl told Alex he loved her. It seemed quite a contrast set up between the two couples. Kind of like Kate and Sawyer were looking at each other in the morning-after light and wondering each to themselves "what have I done". I frankly didn't expect that dynamic right away.


I don't think that Kate and Sawyer were feeling awkard and uncomfortable or even regretful. My take on it was that when Karl told Alex he loved her and she answered him with her kiss it just seemed a little bit too familar, since they had done the exact same thing just the night before. I thought that the looks that Kate and Sawyer exchanged during Karl and Alex's goodbye were meaningful, like they were touched by the quick reminder of how they had also openned up to each other. But I didn't see any looks of regret. I think that they were feeling empathic towards the young lovers because they related so strongly to them.

I don't think Kate and Sawyer reverted totally back to their old selves, remember when Danny was about to shoot Sawyer, Kate ran in front of Sawyer and then the were all huggy after Juliette shot Danny. And when Alex kissed Karl, I thought the look between K and S was more of a feeling sorry that A and K had to be seperated and K and S were glad they were still together.

I don't think Kate and Sawyer reverted totally back to their old selves, remember when Danny was about to shoot Sawyer, Kate ran in front of Sawyer and then the were all huggy after Juliette shot Danny. And when Alex kissed Karl, I thought the look between K and S was more of a feeling sorry that A and K had to be seperated and K and S were glad they were still together.

Well I'm not saying they still don't care for eachother...it's obviously there. Kate running in front of him and clutching on to him is intinct. Everything they shared is still there. But I just feel like they are realizing that it means they kind of have to talk to eachother about it ;) Kate and Sawyer don't strike me as the type of people who easily talk about 'relationships'. They're more the love 'em and leave 'em types. That's not to say they want to do that now...just that it's unfamiliar territory.

I think it's cute! I love that aspect of it...

Well I'm not saying they still don't care for eachother...it's obviously there. Kate running in front of him and clutching on to him is intinct. Everything they shared is still there. But I just feel like they are realizing that it means they kind of have to talk to eachother about it ;) Kate and Sawyer don't strike me as the type of people who easily talk about 'relationships'. They're more the love 'em and leave 'em types. That's not to say they want to do that now...just that it's unfamiliar territory.

I think it's cute! I love that aspect of it...Its kind of hard to leave each other now, I mean being stuck on an island and everything!!

I definetly think that seeing Alex and Karl say goodbye reminded Kate and Sawyer of each other. There are definetly similarities there but it's hard to say if this is significant. I do think Kate and Sawyer will have a difficult time letting their guard down. It's simply a part of their personalities to be isolated to a certain extent from others. I don't think they have regrets about each other but it will be interesting to see how they act in the future.

What was interesting to me was watching Kate/Sawyer watch Alex and Karl say their tearful goodbyes. It seemed like a strange experience for them given what they'd just been through together.

Sawyer and Kate just made love and got all couply...and then they were ripped from that into this crisis where they kind of reverted back to their whole snarky, bickering vibe. And then they're watching these two crazy kids in love be torn apart...and they're kind of glancing at eachother akwardly...not sure what to do. I think it reminded them that they'd gotten REALLY close a little while ago...and they'd have to deal with that again soon ;). Not that they've changed their minds or anything, just that they're so used to being guarded and snippy and ALONE...and now the way they interact has to change a little. It's not a bad thing, just outside their comfort level.

After Sawyer and Kate made love, Sawyer said "I love you" and Kate answered with a kiss. Before Alex and Carl's parting, Carl said "I love you", and Alex answered with a kiss.

I don't know if it's really a "what have we done?"...more of a "what do we do NOW?". There's so used to a certain dynamic between them...and now everything's changed and they don't know how to act around eachother...LOL. There were certainly moments of tenderness between them last night. I loved how Kate was standing behind Sawyer with her arms wrapped tightly around him long after Danny had been shot and killed by Juliette...like she was afraid to let him go :wub:

They admitted their feelings in a fit of passion...and those feelings haven't left them...but their intincts to hide from them have returned a little bit ;)

That was really interesting the "Answers with a Kiss"!! I didn't see it at first - but WOW - Yes!

I didn't sense any "regret" feelings from Sawyer and Kate while the Kids were saying goodbye - more like "Hurry UP please, we are trying to get OFF this Island"!!

But they could have been more interpreted as "They are better at expressing their feelings than WE are"!! Young love, innocent, sweet w/o having lived all the STUFF that we do once we get a certain age - we get a little "jaded" at the "romance and innocence" of what it was like - years ago. OR a look at love under "great difficulties" actually WORKING OUT! (Even though she was staying behind)

With that in mind it could have been to remind Kate that she had to leave Jack behind in order to save themselves. Alex had to let Karl go with Kate and Sawyer in order for them to get to safety. Jack had to let Kate go with Sawyer to get to safety.

But they are a sweet couple!!

Its kind of hard to leave each other now, I mean being stuck on an island and everything!!

Well that IS true...but being stuck in close proximity with eachother hasn't helped anyone on this island get better at communicating with eachother :lol2:...it may have made them worse! ;)

But seriously...they'll just have some stuff to talk about :)

I actually thought there was more of a parallel b/w Kate/Jack and Alex/Karl. Alex had to let Karl go when she very much wanted to go with him to the other island. She was putting him ahead of her own feelings. Jack had to let Kate go when I'm sure he wanted to go with her to the other island. He was putting Kate's safety ahead of his own. Then, we see Alex say a tearful goodbye to Karl. Everyone else is made uncomfortable by this b/c of the intimacy b/w Karl and Alex. Right after this goodbye, we get the walkie-talkie scene b/w Kate and Jack. Jack is saying goodbye to Kate and telling her to not come back, and Kate is repeating the story to him. It's another intimate moment where everyone else who is not in the conversation has to look away(besides Sawyer..I think he just glares at Kate, lol) with discomfort b/c of the intimacy b/w Jack and Kate. So, I saw more of a parallel b/w Jack/Kate and Alex/Karl than I saw b/w Kate/Sawyer and Alex/Karl, but that's just me.:)

I don't think Kate and Sawyer reverted totally back to their old selves, remember when Danny was about to shoot Sawyer, Kate ran in front of Sawyer and then the were all huggy after Juliette shot Danny. And when Alex kissed Karl, I thought the look between K and S was more of a feeling sorry that A and K had to be seperated and K and S were glad they were still together.
Just to clarify, Kate ran in back of Sawyer, to knock him out of the way. That's how she ended up holding him from behind. Kate always holds on to him when he's on the verge of dying.
But if you watch the looks of Kate & Sawyer while Alex and Karl are saying goodbye, they don't make eye contact with each other, and keep looking down and away. It just looks uncomfortable to me, but as always it could be interpreted in different ways. :)

After Sawyer and Kate made love, Sawyer said "I love you" and Kate answered with a kiss. Before Alex and Karl's parting, Karl said "I love you", and Alex answered with a kiss.


:mushy: I noticed that as well Joemamaah and thought it was a parallel of what happened between Kate and Sawyer. It was obvious that although Alex didn't verbalize her 'I love you' but simply kissed Karl, she clearly does love him!

It's too bad Libby isn't still alive, or she could help Karl remember his time on Hydra Island by putting him through hypnotic regression therapy, the way she did with Claire.

First off, not to be all like your 9th grade English teacher, but it's Karl, with a K. Thank you. :)
I am starting to notice parallels between groups. The obvious, Juliet and Jack likeness. Sawyer and Alex. Tom and Hurley. Locke and BenYes, great observation. I've noticed a lot of "mirroring" going on, how, say, a Lostie will say something and it's echoed by an Other. The best example is when John says to Ben that he and Jack make the decisions together, which Juliet says to Jack later. The Others and Losties are going to merge at some point, I'm sure of that, I think they're laying the groundwork for that with those parallels.

First off, not to be all like your 9th grade English teacher, but it's Karl, with a K. Thank you. :)


I have a close friend named Carl - it's short for Carlton. It didn't occur to me to look it up. Thanks for correcting me.

they kind of look something like each other....but still alex is no Kate....and surely Karl is not SAWYER!!!!! : )

No Others are as hot as Sawyer (sorry, wiping up drool). So anyway, tonight we should look for more parallels w/ Sawyer/Karl to see if this keeps going--if they discuss Karl anyway. He might be passed out for like 3 episodes or something before he wakes up and we figure it all out. Very interesting stuff, indeed.

I don't think Kate and Sawyer reverted totally back to their old selves, remember when Danny was about to shoot Sawyer, Kate ran in front of Sawyer and then the were all huggy after Juliette shot Danny. And when Alex kissed Karl, I thought the look between K and S was more of a feeling sorry that A and K had to be seperated and K and S were glad they were still together.
that's exactly how I saw it too.:cool:

I love how quickly James put together that the "boyfriend" Alex wanted them to rescue was Karl. His muttering response was an abridged version of "darn--he tried helping me escape, so now I owe him one"!! And he took off with Alex, Kate following.

I really like the interplay between James & Alex. Not only are they expert at snarking, but they cut right through the crap and "get to the point," as James had urged Kate earlier. He knew Alex had a reason for finding and helping them; Alex didn't waste time in denials. These two know the score, and play the hand dealt them. VERY nice writing and acting! (I look forward to future James/Alex scenes!)