When Michael was finally able to see Walt after the Others had captured him, Ms. Klugh threatened to put Walt 'back in the box again" if he didnt behave when talking to Michael. I wonder if this "box" is the same one that Sawyer/Kate just pulled Carl out of....thoughts?

Actually it was the "room" but that's a very good point! It would scare the crap outta me like it did Walt.

actually she called it a room not a box..

I think it was kind of obvious that the room was being used as some sort of indoctrination device to convert or force the users to cooperate and stay with the Others. Kind of like a brainwashing thing.... Entertainment Weekly had said that there were references to the brainwashing scenes in A Clockwork Orange, and they were very similar...

One other thing got me thinking too...when Ben was having breakfast with Kate on the beach, he said that the next two weeks were going to be very unpleasant. I'm betting that Kate has already went through the process and been converted/brainwashed to act as a mole or spy for the Others, which is why she's going back to the main island...remember that when they first brought Kate to the cages, she looked exhausted and broken...also makes you wonder if Walt went through the same thing and that's why the Others let him leave with his dad.... any thoughts??

That's a good catch! I hadn't even thought of that!

I never made the connection to Walt at all. Wow, you guys are good. But I'll bet that Walt was put through this process too.

One other thing got me thinking too...when Ben was having breakfast with Kate on the beach, he said that the next two weeks were going to be very unpleasant. I'm betting that Kate has already went through the process and been converted/brainwashed to act as a mole or spy for the Others, which is why she's going back to the main island...remember that when they first brought Kate to the cages, she looked exhausted and broken...also makes you wonder if Walt went through the same thing and that's why the Others let him leave with his dad.... any thoughts??

Kate didn't act, to me, like she had seen that room or process before.

Walt didn't really show any affects when he talked to Michael. How long was Walt gone...2 weeks?

Yeah I think Walt was put in that room, about Kate, i'm not sure, she didn't seem to have any connection
to the room but will have to watch again.

Kate didn't act, to me, like she had seen that room or process before.

However, Sawyer sure was interested in what was on the screen. But when would he have been in there?

Perhaps Kate has been reconditioned w/o her knowledge (a'la the Manchurian Candidate)...

However, I doubt LOST would do a "sleeper agent" storyline---that be too Battlestar Galactica.

I think that Sawyer was interested because it was so bizarre and unbelievable. Kate and Alex were focused on the task at hand. And, hey, Sawyer's a guy. They'll watch anything on a big screen. :10:

I know that Kate didn't react much when they got in there....and i think we might be able to attribute that to the possibility that shes already been in there, and knows that it can kind of "suck you in"if you focus on it for too long...so she avoids watching it...on that same note...Sawyer seemed so intrigued by it because he had never seen it before and it sparked his curiosity and caught him off guard...

Eddie-look-alike from Further Instructions/ Guard of the Hydra Brainwashing place did say "Room 23 at the end of the hall"

I think that Sawyer was interested because it was so bizarre and unbelievable. Kate and Alex were focused on the task at hand. And, hey, Sawyer's a guy. They'll watch anything on a big screen. :10:


Well, it HAS been a few months since he's seen a TV. I don't think he was on any of those hatch-finding missions, was he? lol

Naturally, another number reference.

The room MIGHT explain how Kate's wrists were hurt, is they restrained her and she was struggling to get free during the brainwashing.

.Sawyer seemed so intrigued by it because he had never seen it before and it sparked his curiosity and caught him off guard...

...or maybe it sparked something because he had seen it before.

I know that Kate didn't react much when they got in there....and i think we might be able to attribute that to the possibility that shes already been in there, and knows that it can kind of "suck you in"if you focus on it for too long...so she avoids watching it...on that same note...Sawyer seemed so intrigued by it because he had never seen it before and it sparked his curiosity and caught him off guard...


EXACTLY what I came in here to say!

-Sean

Walt didn't really show any affects when he talked to Michael. How long was Walt gone...2 weeks?

maybe because he was "in a place he wasn't supposed to be"? If he does have some sort of teleport-out-of-body type of talent that would be the perfect time to use it and escape the techno torture.

So they're cleary putting Krazy Karl through some sort of brainwashing/conditioning program in that room... which really reminded me of Mrs. Klugh's threat to Walt from late last season about putting him back in the room if he didn't behave. You guys agree?

oooh...i didn't make that connection. could be though. :)!

I remember that Walt said that he was kept in a room and they made him take tests. Is that correct? I can't wait to see Walt again - hopefully he'll be a bit forthcoming about his experience at Hydra. This is of course assuming that Michael either a) won't be able to simply sail away, or b) he has a conscience about throwing his Lostie 'friends' under the bus.

Ben's statement to Jack in the OR: a reference to the season 2 episode "Three Minutes?"

The main connection between the two episodes that I can see is the brainwashing room that Karl was kept in. In "TM", Miss Clugh threatens to put Walt "back in the room." Other people have surely put two and two together in speculation, so we can probably safely guess that these are the same room.

Because of their closeness in age (at the least, they are both adolecent), can we say that the room is an experiement or "treatment" for children? Maybe this will lead to the revealing of what happened to the other missing kids--or even what the others wanted with Claire's baby.

Maybe Alex went through all of this too? Or maybe Ben hooked up with Danielle and then came up with his own twisted custody arrangement?

"TM" was also significantly about Michael--and it also marked the return of Desmond to the island. I think it's obvious that we were supposed to catch this easter egg in Ben's statement...but exactly what were we supposed to remember?

I made the correlation between the "Three Minutes" reference about the span of time, but I hadn't connected "the room" for Walt to the room that Karl was in. Good connection!!!

I also don't think that Alex necessarily would've needed brainwashing if she had been kidnapped as a baby. She would've grown up not knowing things could be any other way.

walt seemed totally different after he got away from the others. and karl certainly seemed way out of it. it seems like maybe they went through the same experiments,

I'm not sure what Karl was undergoing couldl really be classified as tests. I think he was in more of a brainwashing program.

I get the sense that the others were interested in Walt because of his abilities...and they were making him do different things so they could figure out his capabilities.

With Karl I kind of felt like he was a prisoner not because he was special, but because he was disobediant. Obviously at one point he was free and him and Alex got together (probably secretly). Who knows how or when he got on the island. But Ben probably didn't want him with Alex...and Alex and Karl have shown that they won't fall in line with how the others think. So Karl was locked up and then escaped briefly (with Sawyer)...so now they're trying to make him compliant by more creative means. Alex is still 'free' because she's Ben's daugther and he won't hurt her...but they're trying to keep her in line as well.

So I'm guessing Walt was in a different room...but that's just a guess...

I wasn't talking about the tests they ran on Walt. Klugh threatens Walt when he tries to talk freely with Michael about what's been going on. She threatens him with a trip back to the room, (not a direct quote but close enough I think). Walt looks pretty scared, and then drops whatever he was talking about.

I wasn't talking about the tests they ran on Walt. Klugh threatens Walt when he tries to talk freely with Michael about what's been going on. She threatens him with a trip back to the room, (not a direct quote but close enough I think). Walt looks pretty scared, and then drops whatever he was talking about.

I know...I was responding to several comments about Karl maybe undergoing the same experiments as Walt...and perhaps that maybe being the 'room' that Karl was in.

All I'm saying is that I think they were both prisoners for different reasons, so I don't think Karl would be subjected to the same experiments and tests. Whether they used the 'room Karl was in on Walt as punishment...who knows? But they may have been referring to something entirely different.

Intrestingly enough they were still playing the "we wear rags and live in huts" gag with Walt. That might just have been because the audience wasn't supposed to be let in on that secret yet...but it also might mean they didn't want Walt to know who they really were. Which might mean there was less technology involved in what they did to him.

I woke up this morning thinking about this very thing.


I get the sense that the others were interested in Walt because of his abilities...and they were making him do different things so they could figure out his capabilities.

With Karl I kind of felt like he was a prisoner not because he was special, but because he was disobediant

Ah, but I'm sure that Walt was often dissobdiant when the Others were attempting to test him. They could have used that room to make him cooperate more. It could have been his punishment when he wasn't preforming the tests they wanted him to take.

Plus, I'd also like to point out that since brainwashing isn't an exact science, it itself could be called a test... a test of obedience. Who knows. I'm sure we'll all find out sometime in season six :biggrin:

I

All I'm saying is that I think they were both prisoners for different reasons, so I don't think Karl would be subjected to the same experiments and tests. Whether they used the 'room Karl was in on Walt as punishment...who knows? But they may have been referring to something entirely different.

Intrestingly enough they were still playing the "we wear rags and live in huts" gag with Walt. That might just have been because the audience wasn't supposed to be let in on that secret yet...but it also might mean they didn't want Walt to know who they really were. Which might mean there was less technology involved in what they did to him.

Ah! Both good points! But I think Walt was on to the rags and huts gag, didn't he yell something to that effect when they were dragging him out?

Ah! Both good points! But I think Walt was on to the rags and huts gag, didn't he yell something to that effect when they were dragging him out?

It's definitely possible. I think it would be hard for them to keep up their ruse while also trying to get useful information about Walt. They would have had to walk a fine line.

Well, if they did put Walt in the same room as Chachi, the conditioning didn't work too well. Then again Walt is/was a special boy, right?

I think Walt and Karl were at the same facility, but in differant rooms. Karl in Rm 23, Walt somewhere else. The objective for each was differant: Karl was being punished/brainwashed for his bad behavior while Walt was being tested because of his abilities. Both unpleasant, but under differant circumstances.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I started this topic in another thread last night...here is the link: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=68397 I titled the thread "The Box", because I could of swore that Ms. Klugh referred to it as the "box" when she threatened Walt, but I think I was mistaken. Nonetheless, there were some good points brought up if you'd like to check that thread out...

Karl and Walt were both taken to the same part of the Hydra for whatever testing/brainwashing the Others were doing. But I have speculation that Walts Room and Room 23 were not one in the same...

On the thread The Room (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=66522)started after Three Minutes, many people felt that the Room was an unlighted four walls without any stimuli, so that they may observe Walt in his most natural mindset. This would be to test his powers. I felt that it was during this testing that he was able to reach out to Shannon and appear to her and then Sayid.

I remember that Walt said that he was kept in a room and they made him take tests. Is that correct? I can't wait to see Walt again - hopefully he'll be a bit forthcoming about his experience at Hydra. This is of course assuming that Michael either a) won't be able to simply sail away, or b) he has a conscience about throwing his Lostie 'friends' under the bus.

Hopefully we'll see Walt, but we do know that Michael is definitely not coming back.

Hopefully we'll see Walt, but we do know that Michael is definitely not coming back.
Forgive me if this is a stupid question; but HOW do we KNOW Michael is not coming back?????

TPTB have stated specifically that we have NOT seen the last of Walt and Michael.... In their EW.com article posted this week, Cuse and Lindleof both said that it would be kind of ridiculous if they never followed up and explained what really happened to Michael and Walt...

Yes, TPTB can explain Michael and Walt, but they dont have to be in the episode for them to do it. Furthermore, on the numbers website, there is an article relating to Michael and how he is already signed up for another TV series....so no more Mikey and no more "GIMME BACK MY SON!!!" and "I JUST WANT TO GET MY BOY BACK."

intresting. i think its possible altho think about it. if any1 can work out how long it was when karl was took out of the cage that's the maxium time he could have been in the room. karl wlooked like he didn't even no were he was so how culd a kid like walt go through it? i spose they mite have only put walt in for a few mins, they mite b able to put it at diff settings and walt does pocess those "powers" that make him special. its possible its the same room altho it looks like theres at least another 2 rooms in that place

Walt was either in the same room or one in the same building. since there were several rooms in there. (Maybe room 4, 8, 15, or 16?)

Wasn't there also something to do with Walt being in a tank with water?

Or was it his "image" had to swim across the channel to get from the other island to make him wet?

What if the "tests" where given to Carl after he watched the presentation and the "tests" Walt spoke of were to test his retention of the presentation.
100%
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I started this topic in another thread last night...here is the link: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=68397 I titled the thread "The Box", because I could of swore that Ms. Klugh referred to it as the "box" when she threatened Walt, but I think I was mistaken. Nonetheless, there were some good points brought up if you'd like to check that thread out...

Your link is dead.

I think it was kind of obvious that the room was being used as some sort of indoctrination device to convert or force the users to cooperate and stay with the Others. Kind of like a brainwashing thing.... Entertainment Weekly had said that there were references to the brainwashing scenes in A Clockwork Orange, and they were very similar...

One other thing got me thinking too...when Ben was having breakfast with Kate on the beach, he said that the next two weeks were going to be very unpleasant. I'm betting that Kate has already went through the process and been converted/brainwashed to act as a mole or spy for the Others, which is why she's going back to the main island...remember that when they first brought Kate to the cages, she looked exhausted and broken...also makes you wonder if Walt went through the same thing and that's why the Others let him leave with his dad.... any thoughts??

I totally agree with the theories that this room is the same room Mrs. Klugh threatened Walt with in Three Minutes. Secondly I have always thought that something happened to Kate between her conversation with Ben and when Tom brought her back to her cage. Until we see a flashback or Kate actually talks about what happened there's no telling what took place. However the theory that Kate was brainwashed would explain a lot, in regard to Kate's behavior while in the Others camp. I would personally like to see this play out in some form or fashion.