Is it just me or somebody else got the impression that Jack can do lipreading and in the final scene was testing if Juliette was trustworthy?

Trust no one. :D

For that matter, I can't believe that Juliette actually trusted Ben if in fact he did tell her she could leave.

Plese!!! someone!!!....did Ben ( the liar ) really told that to Juliet?????? or was it another con?!...

nice try but ben was on the surgery table with his head strapped down. Jack was looking at him from above in an observation room. No way could he have seen what ben was saying. That was put there just for the internet crazies:lipsseal:

I thought you had noticed that Ben's face was clearly reflected by a mirror.

I think Ben has Juliet's sister on ice somewhere, and he's using her as a means to coerce Juliet.

Haha,

I'm not sure that the Jack haters could take that.

'He can play poker, fire a gun, swim better than *insert name here* and lipread?

I could just imagine it. :rolleyes:

Nice idea though but probably unlikely

Ben's face was clearly visable in the mirror from Jack's vantage point, but the reflection was upside down. He's have to be pretty skilled at lip reading to pull that one off.

Plese!!! someone!!!....did Ben ( the liar ) really told that to Juliet?????? or was it another con?!...

It would be nice if someone caught what Ben was wording.....

Ben may not have her sister, but Julliete would not know that.

I would love to know what was said. Please anybody with a really good system able to capture and review? :frown:

Someone here has just got to lip read! I thought that all during the bit with Ben talking. I will check daily I am sure it is a matter of time.

It would be cool to be able to compare what he was saying to what Juliet told Jack. But then again, it could have just as easily been put in to make us think we were missing something really important, and would make us sit here trying to figure it out. :rolleyes:

I'm able to lip read and he said, "Juliet, I was the one driving the bus."

I had to join this board just so that I could post something about this, but someone already has.

Filming Ben in a close up gave viewers a chance to read his lips, which was WAY TOO DELIBERATE if you ask me. They are begging us to read Ben's lips and find out what was said.

I like the theory about Jack testing Juliette, but whatever, we have to get someone skilled in lip reading to study this scene. It has got to be an easter egg.

I'm able to lip read and he said, "Juliet, I was the one driving the bus."

rofl:rotflmao2: Good one..I thought it might be "Juliet, I'm your father":fight1:

I'm able to lip read and he said, "Juliet, I was the one driving the bus."

ROTFL:rotflmao2:

Haha,

I'm not sure that the Jack haters could take that.

'He can play poker, fire a gun, swim better than *insert name here* and lipread?

I could just imagine it. :rolleyes:

Nice idea though but probably unlikely

Why not Grissom can... :rolleyes:

I can read lips and all I got out of it was the words "help me"
If someone can find a clip of it can you please post a link. I might be able to get more if I watch it again.

I have it on my DVR so I'll go over it when I have a chance. ^_^

I can read lips and all I got out of it was the words "help me"
If someone can find a clip of it can you please post a link. I might be able to get more if I watch it again.

Any more on this?

" Read my lips, no more taxes "
100%
"Read my lips, no more taxes."

I don't trust Ben, but neither do I trust Juliet.

Yes, he was probably lying to her.
But she was probably definitely lying to Jack. :shrug:

It looked kinda like "Help me, I'll help you" or something to that extent... but I'm no expert

I just figured it was something like, "What do you want, Juliet?" (As in what did she want in exchange for doing as he asked.) But I don't KNOW.

Personally, I think TPTB just have the best ol' time pulling our chains with stuff like this. . . .

Can somebody with lip reading experience please post the conversation between Ben and Juliet so we can discuss what Ben really said to her?

It's being worked on...check the "Whispers (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55358&page=105)" thread.

I am a Level 6 Mage Lipreader, and I bought the episode on iTunes, and watched the scene in question intently. There are two shots of Ben speaking. His speech is slurred due to being drugged, and I was barely able to make it out.

In the first shot, it appears that he is saying, "...(it)ches. Can(?) you scra(tch it?)"
In the second shot, I'm sure he's saying, "...gotta pee. Could you-"

Make what you will of this. To me it is clear that Ben was in serious discomfort and desperately needed Juliette's help. I think she used this as leverage to gain her freedom.

IMHO.

So frustrating- all through that scene i was just saying "why havent i learnt to read lips!" :biggrin:

Interesting what imfromthepast said about scrathing an itch- seems like TPTB only showed him mouthing the un-important stuff so that ppl like us would go crazy over it whilst still keeping their cards close to their chests.

Shamu x

ps it's good to be back!! :biggrin:

You know I'm thinking that maybe the actors were just having fun during that sequence. Probably the director said something like "during this scene you are supposed to move your lips but the viewers don't get to know what you're saying" so he may have just come out with the pee thing just for the fun of it. At that line Juliette doubles up with laughter but we see her from her back and think she's undergoing a stressful moment.
ROTFL

Ben definitely says "If you help me, I can help you" when they first zoom in on his face. But the second zoom-in is almost impossible to lipread because a lot of what he's saying is being pronounced inside his mouth, instead of there being a lot of labial pronunciations like in the first shot. I'll keep working on it to see if I can catch anything though.
100%
P.S. I think that rules out that the scene is just for fun to mess with viewers -- he's definitely saying something of importance here. Mark my words, they'll go back to this at some point, from either Ben or Juliet's perspective and you'll hear everything they said.

Also, is it just me, or does Tom say "My name's Tom, by the way" to keep Jack from reading Ben's lips? It seems like a distraction to me.

I don't think we should worry about the lip reading......for all we know he could have been talking about cheese....I think they just put that in their so we would continue to question Juliet's motives.

Agreed.
They just do that so we'll spend countless hours debating it on threads just like this one. ;)

Ben definitely says "If you help me, I can help you" when they first zoom in on his face. But the second zoom-in is almost impossible to lipread because a lot of what he's saying is being pronounced inside his mouth, instead of there being a lot of labial pronunciations like in the first shot. I'll keep working on it to see if I can catch anything though.
100%
P.S. I think that rules out that the scene is just for fun to mess with viewers -- he's definitely saying something of importance here. Mark my words, they'll go back to this at some point, from either Ben or Juliet's perspective and you'll hear everything they said.

Also, is it just me, or does Tom say "My name's Tom, by the way" to keep Jack from reading Ben's lips? It seems like a distraction to me.

I was thinking he was trying to distract him as well

I am a Level 6 Mage Lipreader, and I bought the episode on iTunes, and watched the scene in question intently. There are two shots of Ben speaking. His speech is slurred due to being drugged, and I was barely able to make it out.

In the first shot, it appears that he is saying, "...(it)ches. Can(?) you scra(tch it?)"
In the second shot, I'm sure he's saying, "...gotta pee. Could you-"

Make what you will of this. To me it is clear that Ben was in serious discomfort and desperately needed Juliette's help. I think she used this as leverage to gain her freedom.

IMHO.

Please, oh please tell me you guys realize IMFROMTHEPAST is kidding. My relatives are deaf, and there is no such things as a "Level 6 Mage Lipreader".

Nicely done IMFROMTHEPAST, you got several of us....

I am a Level 6 Mage Lipreader, and I bought the episode on iTunes, and watched the scene in question intently. There are two shots of Ben speaking. His speech is slurred due to being drugged, and I was barely able to make it out.

In the first shot, it appears that he is saying, "...(it)ches. Can(?) you scra(tch it?)"
In the second shot, I'm sure he's saying, "...gotta pee. Could you-"

Make what you will of this. To me it is clear that Ben was in serious discomfort and desperately needed Juliette's help. I think she used this as leverage to gain her freedom.

IMHO.

:rotflmao2:

Yes we know (s)he's kidding. Good gracious I thought it was funny. I do read lips some, my sister and I started it up as a hobby after watching Sue Thomas F. B. Eye....usually it works best during football games when someone screws up and they give you a closeup f the coaches mouth. :eek2: Seriously though if someone could flip the video rightside up some of us might be able to figure out what was being said.

I agree with the Tom distraction theory. On one of the other threads they're laughing about how cute it is, how Tom knows Jack is gonna be around, blah blah blah...but I just knew he was distracting him from what was going on down there.

Hi guys,

my parents are deaf, too, and even the best lipreader can just catch around 70% under the best of circumstances. My parents have never been able to easily lipread from TV, even with the person facing the camera and not lying down on his stomach with his head strapped down. LOL...I agree with everyone that this scene was just to mess with us and to have fun.

Juliet probably did tell Jack what Ben said. After all, didn't Ben also promise to let Jack go home if he did the surgery?

Ah! Fellow CODA's (Children of Deaf Adults). :smile: ::big wave to all::

I consider myself an above-average lip-reader due to having deaf parents. I didn't attempt to decipher what Ben said...considering his mouth movements are hindered (chin rest). Because of this, you'd probably never get it right.

"Level 6 Mage Lipreader"......too funny.

Hey all, thanks for trying to read Ben's lips, I also thought it would be hard to read his lips because his head is strapped down and he's talking slowly due to the anesthetics.


I checked the scene to see if his voice was faintly in the mix and unfortunately I didn't hear any talking. I could even hear squeaking from Juliet's stool as she shifted her weight, but I didn't hear Ben's voice.

I hope we get to hear what was said between Ben and Juliet, not because Ben's lying or anything --I think Juliet summarized the situation perfectly-- but because you *know* Ben got some zingers in. See also: "So, I guess I'm out of the book club" and "You never made soup for me". I like how Juliet smiled before saying her line in this exchange:Jack: Ben. What did he say that made you want to save his life?
Juliet: It doesn't really matter what he saidYou know that Ben said something about her cooking, I just know he did, to get her to smile like that. :)

New to this whole forum thing but I heard that someone on this site was asking, for a lip reader.

In the second scene where we have to lip read what Ben says to Juliet, he says, " JACOB WOULD WANT YOU TO HELP THEM JULIET."

I was trying to make out the first scene but I was getting a headache from being upside down, so I stopped. Thought perhaps I saw HELP at the begining and perhaps BOAT at the end, but again...I stopped and shut it off.

I heard on a podcast that someone had said Ben said, I was driving the bus, so I went and checked it out.....I disagree with that synopsis.

Hope this helps whoever wanted the info.

You are absolutely sure??

HELP them find a BOAT??

Anyways, id this is correct, it could be VERRRRY interesting! :D Another Jacob reference :D

Funny, I thought the last word of the first scene was "home". It was all upside down though and I'm not the best lip reader.

who is jacob?

no one knows. Its what we want to know so far. but he obviously is/was in charge.

In the second scene, Ben said,
"JACOB WOULD WANT YOU TO HELP THEM JULIET"

I am 99% sure. Hope that helps.

It is about 24 minutes into the show if you want to check it out for yourself.

I looked at the first one really quickly but I stopped because I was getting a headache from being upside down, and I had to go. Not sure on the first scene, but thought I made out HELP at the beginning and BOAT at the end. I'll go back and look at it when ever I get a spare moment.

Turn your monitors / televisions upside down, it makes it a lot easier

At any rate, Tom aka "Mr.Freindly" (the big guy who hates blood), was telling Jack in a moment of desperation that they were able to contact and communicate until the purple light filled the sky. And that's all we get to know about that :( I wonder if Ben knows that???? He told her she could go but in the preview at the end of the episode they show Juliet in handcuffs and being escorted somewhere. EXCITING STUFF!!!!

Once someone learns to lip read, I think the lip read in the mirror might be very difficult. Real time lip reading very seldom gives you perfect views and context is very important to be accurate. Does someone know more?

Trust no one. :D

For that matter, I can't believe that Juliette actually trusted Ben if in fact he did tell her she could leave.


why are you so sure its Ben who shouldnt be trusted?

all that was on my mind when juliets plan was exposed was "who are these "people" shes talking about who wants ben dead?....other then her."

I read lips
I have read lips all my life that's how I hear I only have 17% hearing in one ear totally deaf in the other
u could say my eyes are my ears

who is jacob?

One of the producers Damon Lindeloff (sp?) gave a hint that it is a reference to the biblical Jacob. One his podcast he said something to the effect of, "Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel....is there 12 tribes of others on the various islands? Ben was his youngest son."

In the bible, Laban had two daughters. The younger one was Rachel...her womb was barren, she couldn't have kids. God opened her womb and she concieved Joseph and Ben.

????Was the other original hatch guy, Ben's brother? According to Damon, his first and middle name was Joe Calvin (I don't remember his last name).

Also, in the brain washing photo where it said, God loves you as he loved Jacob, it is superimposed over a photo of stairs. It would seem to be a reference to Jabobs ladder. If you want to look it up it is in Genesis 28. Verse 12 refers to a passageway unseen by humans, Verse 14 is a fertility reference, Verse 17 talks about it being a gate of heaven.

Damon said that the Hieroglyphic symbols in the hatch meant UNDERWORLD, and that it represented hell. Now the writers are throwing in references to a Gateway to heaven HUMMM.

Who is the character on the show? We have not met him. I don't know if we will now that I saw the, "God Loves you as he Loved Jacob"....comment in past tense, during the brain washing sequence.

Sorry this is long. I'm new to this whole forum thing.

Heard someone wanted a lip reader.....
I finally had time to lip read both scenes.

In the first scene, Ben says,
HELP THEM GET A BOAT

In the second scene, Ben says,
JACOB WOULD WANT YOU TO HELP THEM JULIET.

If you want to check it out, it is 24 minutes into the show.

Awesome! Who the heck is Jacob already? Of course we don't get to see the whole conversation but I believe Juliet when she said Ben promised to send her home. I wonder if Ben knows about her sister and made Juliet cry by mentioning her.

That is very cool to know.
Thanks for this OnlyLost4now,
and not that I don't believe you,
but i wonder if there is anyone who can verify this?

jacob, jacob, jacob.....who the heck are ya!?
:biggrin:

Awesome! Who the heck is Jacob already? Of course we don't get to see the whole conversation but I believe Juliet when she said Ben promised to send her home. I wonder if Ben knows about her sister and made Juliet cry by mentioning her.

Who is the character on the show? We haven't meant him. I wonder if we will now that I saw the, "God Loves you as he Loved Jacob"....comment in past tense, during the brain washing sequence.

Here is what I know about Jacob so far:
One of the producers Damon Lindeloff (sp?) gave a hint that it is a reference to the biblical Jacob. One his podcast he said something to the effect of, "Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel....is there 12 tribes of others on the various islands? Ben was his youngest son."
Since it is a well read book sometimes the producers and the writers use the bible as a reference.In the bible, Laban had two daughters. The younger one was Rachel...her womb was barren, she couldn't have kids. God opened her womb and she concieved Joseph and Ben.

????Was the other original hatch guy, Ben's brother? According to Damon, his first and middle name was Joe Calvin (I don't remember his last name).

Also, in the brain-washing photo where it said, God loves you as he loved Jacob, it is superimposed over a photo of stairs. It would seem to be a reference to Jabobs ladder. If you want to look it up it is in Genesis 28. Verse 12 refers to a passageway unseen by humans, Verse 14 is a fertility reference, Verse 17 talks about it being a gate of heaven.

Damon said that the Hieroglyphic symbols in the hatch meant UNDERWORLD, and that it represented hell. Now the writers are throwing in references to a Gateway to heaven... HUMMM.

Sorry this is long. I'm new to this whole forum thing.
100%
That is very cool to know.
Thanks for this OnlyLost4now,
and not that I don't believe you,
but i wonder if there is anyone who can verify this?

jacob, jacob, jacob.....who the heck are ya!?
:biggrin:

If you want to check it out yourself, it is about 24 minutes into the show.

I had never done the forum thing before, but there was so much dis-information out there....it made me want to sign on and answer this question.

If you want to check it out yourself, it is about 24 minutes into the show.

I had never done the forum thing before, but there was so much dis-information out there....it made me want to sign on and answer this question.

Not what i meant, lol.
I know when and where the scene is,
what i was driving at was,
are there any other people who can lipread that can backup what you said,
cause i sure can not.

OnlyLost4Now, this is really cool information. Thanks for sharing.

I'm not doubting you, just wondering: what brings you to have lipreading skills?

Thanks!

Heard someone was looking for a lip reader on this site.
I don't know how to do forums, so forgive me if I do this wrong....I had this up once and it disappeared. I'll give it another go.

In the first scene, Ben says....
"HELP THEM GET A BOAT"

In the second scene, Ben says...
"JACOB WOULD WANT YOU TO HELP THEM JULIET".

(I am 99.9 percent sure, but with all lip reading there is a margin of error...so I won't say 100%)

Hope this helps.

you're awesome