Jack has continued to show that he's the Hero of the show. I don't know about you but when he tells Kate to "Forget about coming back for him" that sealed it for me.

Sawyer seemed to be thinking only of himself... do you think this will create a rift between him and kate?

I think Sawyer was respecting Jack's request as well as taking care of Kate as he has been doing already. Kate will probably get ticked at Sawyer for making the best choices for her safety while she's in such an emotional state.

Sawyer caring only about himself? Are you watching the same show as the rest of us? heh. He was willing to give his life for Kate, every bit as much as Jack is taking a gamble as he did. And sawyers number one concern seems to get kate out of there, not himself.

Jack was pretty heroic, but dont try to discredit sawyer where credit is due. Jack didn't kneel down infront of an armed man wanting to kill him for kate's benefit now did he?

Sawyer caring only about himself? Are you watching the same show as the rest of us? heh. He was willing to give his life for Kate, every bit as much as Jack is taking a gamble as he did. And sawyers number one concern seems to get kate out of there, not himself.

Jack was pretty heroic, but dont try to discredit sawyer where credit is due. Jack didn't kneel down infront of an armed man wanting to kill him for kate's benefit now did he? I don't dispute that Sawyer cares about Kate, but I missed the part where Sawyer was willing to give up his life for Kate.
Giving up a non-contest of stranglehold with Pickett had no benefit for Kate. At the end of I Do, Pickett had full advantage over Sawyer in that standoff -- Pickett's gun hand was free and he could have shot Sawyer -- or Kate -- at any time, even if Sawyer's hand was at his neck.
And how would Pickett killing Sawyer benefit Kate? Pickett & co. never promised to set her free if Sawyer gave in. They'd just kill her too afterwards, if they wanted to.

Jack's plan and tactical use of his advantage in the surgery got Kate and Sawyer set free. He carried out that plan in this episode. And he pretty much assured his own continued captivity, if not death, by doing that. That's selfless.

I think Sawyer was respecting Jack's request as well as taking care of Kate as he has been doing already. Kate will probably get ticked at Sawyer for making the best choices for her safety while she's in such an emotional state.

Um... no, actually Kate has been taking care of him. He has been pretty dazed all along. Though, I do remember him helping her up when she tripped.

I don't dispute that Sawyer cares about Kate, but I missed the part where Sawyer was willing to give up his life for Kate.
Giving up a non-contest of stranglehold with Pickett had any benefit for Kate. At the end of I Do, Pickett had full advantage over Sawyer in that standoff -- Pickett's gun hand was free and he could have shot Sawyer -- or Kate -- at any time, even if Sawyer's hand was at his neck.

Right. I don't see that Sawyer was sacrificing himself there either and I never have. It's not how the scene plays out. The irony is that Jack came through on the walkie to save Kate.

Jack has continued to show that he's the Hero of the show. I don't know about you but when he tells Kate to "Forget about coming back for him" that sealed it for me.

Sawyer seemed to be thinking only of himself... do you think this will create a rift between him and kate?

Jack seemed to be saying goodbye and it was heart-wrenching. Sawyer, at this point is trying to get the heck out of there. I wish he would be a little more concerned for his friend and hopefully we'll see that come out later.

I wish that (some) people weren't always so busy trying to look for the worst in Sawyer. While he may not be as self-sacrificing as Jack on a daily basis, he definately is when it matters the most. There is a lot of good in Sawyer and he can (as he has shown on many occasions) be as much of a hero as anyone in a crisis. Why do people feel the need to tear him or any of the characters down? They are all so well written that none of them can be defined in such black and white terms as good or bad. Sawyer, like the rest of the losties, has a lot of layers and a lot of depth. Maybe if some people could focus a little more on the characters as they are written and accurately portrayed and a little less on the competetive romance angles, they would be able to enjoy all of the characters for the virtues that each of them have to offer the story.

Sorry if I sound like I am on a soap box, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Yes, we are all well aware that Jack is the big hero, but thankfully he isn't the only hero. And from my perspective, it is the unlikely heros (like Sawyer, Desmond, Juliet, etc.) that keep the story really interesting.

Sawyer caring only about himself? Are you watching the same show as the rest of us? heh. He was willing to give his life for Kate, every bit as much as Jack is taking a gamble as he did. And sawyers number one concern seems to get kate out of there, not himself.

Jack was pretty heroic, but dont try to discredit sawyer where credit is due. Jack didn't kneel down infront of an armed man wanting to kill him for kate's benefit now did he?

Sorry to disagree with you, Prince, but the show that ABC has been broadcasting hasn't, in my opinion, shown Sawyer to behave in anything even approaching a heroic fashion in either I Do or Not in Portland. I don't think Sawyer was giving his life for Kate, instead, he was giving in to his persistent death wish, trying to commit 'suicide by Picket', and abandoning Kate to a miserable fate as a prisoner of the Others. There was nothing even remotely heroic about it. Jack was willing to give up his life (and I don't doubt that Jack is convinced the Others will kill him) to get both Kate and Sawyer to freedom and safety, that's true heroism.

As for Not in Portland, it seemed to me that Sawyer was just stumbling along, having Kate, Alex, and Juliet save his bacon in turn. Not much in terms of hero material.

I wish that (some) people weren't always so busy trying to look for the worst in Sawyer. While he may not be as self-sacrificing as Jack on a daily basis, he definately is when it matters the most. There is a lot of good in Sawyer and he can (as he has shown on many occasions) be as much of a hero as anyone in a crisis. Why do people feel the need to tear him or any of the characters down?

Why do people feel the need to assign heroic attributes to Sawyer when he doesn't do anything heroic? Even in this season, Sawyer continually demonstrates that he's still all about "Every Man for Himself". I won't deny that Sawyer still has a chance at redemption, but I'm certainly not going to heap praises on him until he actually starts behaving in a manner that deserves the praise.

Sawyer caring only about himself? Are you watching the same show as the rest of us?

Yes, and yes to both questions lol. Sawyer's primary concern is numero uno. It always has been and it always will be.

He was willing to give his life for Kate

So, having a death wish and wanting someone to shoot you because you feel miserable inside equates to giving up your life for someone? If Sawyer actually thought that him letting Pickett shoot him was going to save Kate's life, then Sawyer is even more ignorant than I previously had thought.

Jack was pretty heroic, but dont try to discredit sawyer where credit is due.

There is nothing to discredit, because Sawyer didn't do the one thing that Kate told him to do, which was fight.

So do many of you actually believe that Jack is the only heroic character on Lost? Or are you able to recognize and enjoy heroic traits in other charcters too, provided they just aren't demonstrated by Sawyer? It seems to me that some viewers are still so blinded by Sawyer's seemingly selfish actions in the first few episodes of season one that they refuse to accept any other (a.k.a. positive) behavior from him or recognize any other sides to his personalilty. Sure, when it comes to being the hero, no one on the show can out shine Jack, but that doesn't mean that by comparison you should discredit the heroic deeds of Sawyer or any other character. If you are willing to pay close enough attention to what is happening on the show, you will see that all too often Sawyer tends to say one thing (like "every man for himself") while actually doing the exact opposite (like trying to protect Kate from both the harsh reality of their situation and from Pickett in "I Do").

If you are determined to hate Sawyer, then there is really no reason to continue this debate. But I have a hard time imagining how anyone could enjoy watching this show while maintaining such a stubborn prejudice against one of the main characters.

So do many of you actually believe that Jack is the only heroic character on Lost?

No.

Or are you able to recognize and enjoy heroic traits in other charcters too, provided they just aren't demonstrated by Sawyer?

It's not outlandish to say that Sawyer doesn't demonstrate heroic traits lol. What do you expect me to say, that Sawyer is just so selfless and noble?

It seems to me that some viewers are still so blinded by Sawyer's seemingly selfish actions in the first few episodes of season one that they refuse to accept any other (a.k.a. positive) behavior from him or recognize any other sides to his personalilty.

He's not seemingly selfish. You are what you are and Sawyer chooses to be an *** every day to everyone. I'm not going to give the guy a gold star just because one day out of the week, he does a good deed or chooses to be nice to someone lol.

If you are willing to pay close enough attention to what is happening on the show, you will see that all too often Sawyer tends to say one thing (like "every man for himself") while actually doing the exact opposite (like trying to protect Kate from both the harsh reality of their situation and from Pickett in "I Do").

That is your interpretation. Others see the situation differently. It's fine that you don't see his every man for himself persona, but it doesn't mean that it's not there just because you don't see it. I don't invent negative qualities about Sawyer. I just see the guy for what he is and unfortunately, the negatives out weigh the positives by a great deal.

But I have a hard time imagining how anyone could enjoy watching this show while maintaining such a stubborn prejudice against one of the main characters.

It's easy to enjoy the show and hate Sawyer, because Lost is not about Sawyer and his adventures. In fact, Sawyer doesn't even have a storyline outside of the triangle. The parts of the show that I don't care for, I ignore (like Kate for instance) and concentrate on the parts of the show that I do enjoy. And if you want to say I'm prejudiced against Sawyer, then be my guest, but I'm allowed to not like someone if they are an *** and Sawyer just happens to be one.

I really like Sawyer's character, especially his dry wit, and can recall a few moments when he's acted almost heroic - like leaving the $ he got in prison to a daughter he had never met. But the OP was referring to overall behavior, if I'm not mistaken, and there's no way you can compare Sawyer's brief moments of selflessness to Jack's continued bravery. Sawyer is always thinking, thinking of how to save his own skin mostly, while Jack is always thinking, thinking of how to help everyone else. It's not about prejudice against one character or another. It's simply the way TPTB have chosen to portray the two - for now. Who knows what lies ahead? Maybe at the end Sawyer will be the hero. I just hope he doesn't have to die for this to happen.

i think sawyer has changed a huge amount since he's been in captivity with the others (since season 3 started). remember that moment where he gave kate his fish biscuit? that was a sign that his character was turning... once he gets back to the other losties, i can't imagine him acting the same as he did in previous seasons. even in the lost moments, he's seen helping jin learn english. he is showing signs that he is not the selfish jerk he was in season 1.

i can see him dying a verrry noble death, if and when his time comes. i think his redemption is moving right along.

So do many of you actually believe that Jack is the only heroic character on Lost? Or are you able to recognize and enjoy heroic traits in other charcters too, provided they just aren't demonstrated by Sawyer? It seems to me that some viewers are still so blinded by Sawyer's seemingly selfish actions in the first few episodes of season one that they refuse to accept any other (a.k.a. positive) behavior from him or recognize any other sides to his personalilty. Sure, when it comes to being the hero, no one on the show can out shine Jack, but that doesn't mean that by comparison you should discredit the heroic deeds of Sawyer or any other character. If you are willing to pay close enough attention to what is happening on the show, you will see that all too often Sawyer tends to say one thing (like "every man for himself") while actually doing the exact opposite (like trying to protect Kate from both the harsh reality of their situation and from Pickett in "I Do").

If you are determined to hate Sawyer, then there is really no reason to continue this debate. But I have a hard time imagining how anyone could enjoy watching this show while maintaining such a stubborn prejudice against one of the main characters.

Thats not the case at all. Yes Im a Jack fan, I find Sawyer attractive and like the character. But there are times when I have all out hated Sawyer for his selfish ways.

1/ When he stole the guns after conning Jack and Locke. He made Charlie attack Sun for chrsts sakesto have the diversion to do it...this is a good man?

2/ Killing the tree frog...ok, its only a little thing, but way, way out of order

3/ His "me, me me...Ive had a crappy life, time to dump crap on everyone else" attitude

And many other occasions

Yeah there have been times Ive pittied him (his EARLY flashback when we saw what happened to his family/killing the wrong man etc) The early FBs seemed to expain the reason why Sawyer is the wayher is. Created a little sympathy for him. The later ones have just shown him as a cold hearted git who is out for number one.

Jack is far from operfect, he is a deeply flawed human being - as is Sawyer. But rather than show it extrovertly as Sawyer has chosen to, Jack is an introvert. He absorbs each and every little thing. Hides his pains from the world...he doesnt feel worth of love and so doesnt expect it - and puts the safety, healt and emotional state of others above his own.

How many times did Sawyer ask about Jack when he was in captivity? Jack asked after Sawyer...the fact is Sawyer ahd what he wanted right thre - Kate. Why bring Jack back?

We can see that when Kate says she wants to go back for Jack - Sawyer is VERY against the idea. Despite the fact that Jack saved his life, and even as Sawyer said "is the closest thing to afriend" he has, Sawyer is still ready to abandon him for his own safety.

Being selfish is not an admirable trait. And being good looking is not a reason to excuse Sawyer for it. Neither is the fact that Sawyer had a crappy upbringing. I think its clear that all 3 of the triangle had a bad childhood, and Kate and Jack are able to care about others, not just themselves.

As to seeing hero attributes in other characters? Yes, I have sen them...in Charlie, Desmond, Eko, Locke, Kate, Sayid....NEVER in Sawyer...

Angie
xxxxx

OK. Saying that some people think Jack is always the hero, no one else is a hero, and Sawyer never does anything heroic is just simplistic. Nothing is simplistic on Lost. For the record, I can think of several heroic things Sawyer has done on the island:
- On the raft, he dove in and retrieved the heavy rudder when it broke off, at risk to himself.
- He tried to prevent the Others from shooting Walt and ended up with a bullet in his shoulder
- He revived Michael by doing CPR while they were floating on the debris (who went on to affect others' karma, but that's another story)
- Even after the theft of the guns, he stashed them in his own tent -- a place where they would be found if Sawyer died with the knowledge of where they were -- not something heroic, but it showed that he ultimately thought of the long term good of the group. Or maybe he was just lazy and didn't want to keep checking on them. :rolleyes:

But in Season 3 I haven't seen him do anything approaching heroic. He just seems to be wanting to fulfill his death wish and occasionally protect Kate (like not telling her about the pacemaker, since Benry threatened he'd put one in her if he told.)

It's always a pleasant surprise to see him do something good for someone else, and he would be a flatter character if he didn't.

wow, i cant get over how people can really strip someone of all credit when credit os obviously due.

you people must have missed episode 4 of this season when sawyer was absolutly AFRAID to die. did you guys not notice that he seemed to really wanna live? why? if he has such a big death wish? maybe he wanted to live now that he had kate in his life? maybe he realized his life isnt worthless.

yet two episodes later when kate stands by and does absolutly nothign and sawyer is taking on the guy with the gun, has his arm in a hold and stranglehold on him but THEN looks to kate and sees that shes trapped, again, (not even mentioning the events in episode 2 when he gave up cuz juliet threatened to shoot kate) and then he looks back at pickett to the words "you let go or ill do her too" and then he gives up. oh yeah, thats really giving into his death wish. hmmm heres a question...if he was gonna give into his death wish why not go along quietly the entire time? heck why not die by getting his heart pumped up two episodes earlier, or why not just try to shoot all the others he could with the ak-47 in episode 2? OH right...cuz kate had been a ball and chain on him the entire season. but apparently all the noble things he did to keep her safe register as only him being selfish and wanting to die. even though none of that adds up whatsoever. ^.^
im sure somewhere damon and carlton are laughing that a discussion over this is even being had. hehe.

wow, i cant get over how people can really strip someone of all credit when credit os obviously due.

you people must have missed episode 4 of this season when sawyer was absolutly AFRAID to die. did you guys not notice that he seemed to really wanna live? why? if he has such a big death wish? maybe he wanted to live now that he had kate in his life? maybe he realized his life isnt worthless.

yet two episodes later when kate stands by and does absolutly nothign and sawyer is taking on the guy with the gun, has his arm in a hold and stranglehold on him but THEN looks to kate and sees that shes trapped, again, (not even mentioning the events in episode 2 when he gave up cuz juliet threatened to shoot kate) and then he looks back at pickett to the words "you let go or ill do her too" and then he gives up. oh yeah, thats really giving into his death wish. hmmm heres a question...if he was gonna give into his death wish why not go along quietly the entire time? heck why not die by getting his heart pumped up two episodes earlier, or why not just try to shoot all the others he could with the ak-47 in episode 2? OH right...cuz kate had been a ball and chain on him the entire season. but apparently all the noble things he did to keep her safe register as only him being selfish and wanting to die. even though none of that adds up whatsoever. ^.^
im sure somewhere damon and carlton are laughing that a discussion over this is even being had. hehe.
The question was not if Sawyer wants to die at all times. The question was whether Sawyer has done heroic things to save Kate's life. In his standoff with Pickett he had no advantage over Pickett, and therefore his backing down did nothing to protect Kate.

At the very end of I Do, he just sort of kneels down with a "bring it on" kind of look. Remember Kate screaming "No! Sawyer you fight!" Pickett didn't promise to save or release Kate by executing Sawyer, so it wasn't for her in that moment.
And on the beach in NIP when Pickett confronts him, Sawyer walks toward him as if challenging him to shoot him -- rather than diving out of the way, until Kate stepped in and took him down from behind.
Remember Michael on the raft asking Sawyer why he came -- either you're a hero or you got a death wish? and Sawyer says, well I ain't no hero. It was to show that when the time comes, Sawyer would just as well have someone put him out of his misery. That's not to say that he doesn't want to live, period. It just looks like he tends to face a standoff that way. Suicide by cop and whatnot.
I hope he shakes it off! So far even the luv of Kate hasn't cured him of it, from the beach scene.

The question was not if Sawyer wants to die at all times. The question was whether Sawyer has done heroic things to save Kate's life. In his standoff with Pickett he had no advantage over Pickett, and therefore his backing down did nothing to protect Kate.

At the very end of I Do, he just sort of kneels down with a "bring it on" kind of look. Remember Kate screaming "No! Sawyer you fight!" Pickett didn't promise to save or release Kate by executing Sawyer, so it wasn't for her in that moment.
And on the beach in NIP when Pickett confronts him, Sawyer walks toward him as if challenging him to shoot him -- rather than diving out of the way, until Kate stepped in and took him down from behind.
Remember Michael on the raft asking Sawyer why he came -- either you're a hero or you got a death wish? and Sawyer says, well I ain't no hero. It was to show that when the time comes, Sawyer would just as well have someone put him out of his misery. That's not to say that he doesn't want to live, period. It just looks like he tends to face a standoff that way. Suicide by cop and whatnot.
I hope he shakes it off! So far even the luv of Kate hasn't cured him of it, from the beach scene.

he had pickett by the throat and had his gun pointed aside. he could have taken pickett down easily. hell if he couldnt why would pickett have bothered with the "let go now, or ill do her too!" if he could have just shot him like everyone says he could of, why didnt he? he has no remorse for sawyer. he wouldnt have thought twice.

and sawyer backed down because pickett said he would have killed kate too if he didnt. just like he didnt tell kate about the pacemaker or ben said he would have put one in her too and how when he had the ak47 and could have gone out in blaze of glory by shooting as many others as possible he saw kate in dnager and once again gave it up. i dont know how more obvious the people up high who make this show have to be for people to get fundemental details like that.

We can see that when Kate says she wants to go back for Jack - Sawyer is VERY against the idea. Despite the fact that Jack saved his life, and even as Sawyer said "is the closest thing to afriend" he has, Sawyer is still ready to abandon him for his own safety.

Being selfish is not an admirable trait. xxxxx

In all fairness, Kate isn't thinking clearly when she wants to stay and free Jack. She's not the best tactician. (Remember how she got herself caught by the Others the first time?)

Sawyer is facing reality (and attempting, with as much gentleness and compassion as he can muster under the circumstances, to help Kate face reality). There's a difference between heroic and suicidal. Their only hope for saving ANYONE is to hightail it back to the beach ASAP, gather reinforcements (primarily Sayid and Locke), decide whether a Jack rescue is even possible, and then PLAN a coordinated raid on Otherville. (Something better than Sayid's last plan, I hope.) If Sawyer and Kate can return to Camp Lostaway with further information on conditions in Otherville, that will vastly improve the odds for the rescue mission that no doubt is already being planned there. (Sayid, Locke and the rest of the Lostaways are not even aware of Alcatraz at this point.)

Since Jack is not currently being physically abused, I personally think everyone would be better off in the long run if Jack stays with the Others, perhaps pretends to turn, and gathers as much information as he can. If Ben can actually make good on his promise to return Jack to the world (which I doubt), that would be even better (provided Jack could get anyone to believe his story).

But I don't think Kate and Sawyer see it that way.

Since Jack is not currently being physically abused, I personally think everyone would be better off in the long run if Jack stays with the Others, perhaps pretends to turn, and gathers as much information as he can. If Ben can actually make good on his promise to return Jack to the world (which I doubt), that would be even better (provided Jack could get anyone to believe his story).




What about what Jack is feeling mentally. Its a good theory, and would be the best for the group. But again its Jack giving something up for the benefit of the other survivors. Why should he have to stay in captivity...what about what he will suffer being there alone?

I can't believe people are being so inflexible and stubborn about this. These are two different men. Period. Not everyone is going to act/react to situations in the same way. Many of you are talking about the word "hero" in the classical sense. Let's call it courage, instead of debating whether either of them is a "hero." Courage is defined as "the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty, danger, pain, etc. without being deflected by a chosen course of action; bravery. Mental or moral strength to resist opposition, danger, or hardship."

Sawyer is courageous. Yes, I believe he had a death wish in the past. But, he could've easily let go and died when he was infected after being brought back by Eko. He was on death's door and he stuck around because of Kate.

He believed his heart was going to explode, and he believed that if Kate discovered this, they'd insert a similar device inside her. He tried to put her at ease dispite his own fear. As for some of you saying he was "giving up" when Picket was going to shoot him, that's pretty harsh. Look at it from his POV: his only choice at that moment was to trust that if he went along with Picket, Picket would then allow Kate to survive, and she would later have a shot at escaping, and he knew Jack was still around to help her. He's finally found love, he didn't want to die, but "gave up" so she would live.

And let's not forget, Jack has always gotten off on being the "saver." Actually, I'm usually turned off by his self-righteousness, holier-than-thou-ness. But I was really touched when he decided to szcrifice himself and do the surgery to allow Kate a chance to escape. (Total quiet self-sacrifice, it allowed me to see Jack in a whole new light.) But the things that Sawyer has done (giving up the con to ptotect the kid from possibly facing a fate similar to his own, despite it meaning being hunted down; trying to protect Walt from being kidnapped; resusitating Mike; diving into bloody, shark-infested water to get the other part of the raft; standing ground as he shot the polar bear; giving the money to his supposed daughter in a leap of faith; stepping forward on the beach knowing he's the one Picket has business with) have been courageous, particularly given the type of person he's almost always been. And even smaller things, reading to a baby, cautiously stepping forward to join the group during the golf tourney, attempting to comfort Kate following the murder of AL/shooting of Libby, these are courageous moves because they're made by someone who, from what we've been told about him, wouldn't have done them pre-crash. Can we not put a blanket stereotypical image of what a "good," "heroic" person is, and instead try to see the character as they are individually, facing something that's challenging for them b/c of who they are?

What about what Jack is feeling mentally. Its a good theory, and would be the best for the group. But again its Jack giving something up for the benefit of the other survivors. Why should he have to stay in captivity...what about what he will suffer being there alone?

Jack will also suffer if he makes it back to Camp Lostaway and spends the remaining years of his life on Craphole Island, watching his compatriots being fed to the monster one by one. All the Lostaways are suffering. If Jack is clever (and he's being pretty clever right now), he may be able to save himself along with everyone else. That's RATIONAL heroism. It's what I would EXPECT from the camp leader.

What about what Jack is feeling mentally. Its a good theory, and would be the best for the group. But again its Jack giving something up for the benefit of the other survivors. Why should he have to stay in captivity...what about what he will suffer being there alone?

he shouldnt have to stay in captivity. thats the point of the whole being captured thing. theres no reason he should have to.

in fairness what sawyer and kate went through physically and mentally is nothing compared to what jack has endured. im sure it isnt pleasent for him but he got a freaking cheeseburger for christ's sake! sawyer got tortured, beaten, shocked, and almost killed. kate got landed with physical abuse on her handcuffes and had to sit back and watch twice while sawyer almost got killed in front of her helpless. theres far more a danger that the two of them would be killed than jack. especially since jack has a valuable trade to offer then which they need. kate and sawyer are a fugitive and a con man, how can either of those be offerede as helpful. what you think the others need more muscle? kate or sawyer would work well in that field yeah but they would never give into it. strategists? con people? theyve already proved they dont need that. a doctor? they def need that.

also, sawyer and kate are on the outside of the others compound, jack is right in the center of it surrounded by how many people. do you think there is ANY chance that the two of them could have gotten jack out of there? highly highly doubtful, despite how good they are. heck, its highly doubtful that even bringing back locke sayid and however many other they might bring along would work seeing how many others there actually are.

but when it comes down to the fact that you love someone, as sawyer loves kate, are you honestly gonna wanna risk their life again for a hopeless cause? what benefit would there be in going back for jack at that time? none. kate and sawyer would either have been recaptured and almost deifnatly killed or just killed while running and jack wouldnt be any better off or any worse off than he already was.

So do many of you actually believe that Jack is the only heroic character on Lost? Or are you able to recognize and enjoy heroic traits in other charcters too, provided they just aren't demonstrated by Sawyer? It seems to me that some viewers are still so blinded by Sawyer's seemingly selfish actions in the first few episodes of season one that they refuse to accept any other (a.k.a. positive) behavior from him or recognize any other sides to his personalilty. Sure, when it comes to being the hero, no one on the show can out shine Jack, but that doesn't mean that by comparison you should discredit the heroic deeds of Sawyer or any other character. If you are willing to pay close enough attention to what is happening on the show, you will see that all too often Sawyer tends to say one thing (like "every man for himself") while actually doing the exact opposite (like trying to protect Kate from both the harsh reality of their situation and from Pickett in "I Do").

If you are determined to hate Sawyer, then there is really no reason to continue this debate. But I have a hard time imagining how anyone could enjoy watching this show while maintaining such a stubborn prejudice against one of the main characters.

Why should Sawyer have to be a hero?? Being a hero isn't a prerequisite for liking a character. Season 1 Sawyer was in my top five favorites. I'm actually really disappointed that they haven't done more with him. He had a real opportunity to grow some and instead all we are getting is more of the same. So, a lot of my complaining personally is because I want to see a side of Sawyer come out that I feel hasn't in a long time. I would like to see him have more than one storyline for sure.

he shouldnt have to stay in captivity. thats the point of the whole being captured thing. theres no reason he should have to.

in fairness what sawyer and kate went through physically and mentally is nothing compared to what jack has endured. im sure it isnt pleasent for him but he got a freaking cheeseburger for christ's sake! sawyer got tortured, beaten, shocked, and almost killed. kate got landed with physical abuse on her handcuffes and had to sit back and watch twice while sawyer almost got killed in front of her helpless. theres far more a danger that the two of them would be killed than jack. especially since jack has a valuable trade to offer then which they need. kate and sawyer are a fugitive and a con man, how can either of those be offerede as helpful. what you think the others need more muscle? kate or sawyer would work well in that field yeah but they would never give into it. strategists? con people? theyve already proved they dont need that. a doctor? they def need that.

also, sawyer and kate are on the outside of the others compound, jack is right in the center of it surrounded by how many people. do you think there is ANY chance that the two of them could have gotten jack out of there? highly highly doubtful, despite how good they are. heck, its highly doubtful that even bringing back locke sayid and however many other they might bring along would work seeing how many others there actually are.

but when it comes down to the fact that you love someone, as sawyer loves kate, are you honestly gonna wanna risk their life again for a hopeless cause? what benefit would there be in going back for jack at that time? none. kate and sawyer would either have been recaptured and almost deifnatly killed or just killed while running and jack wouldnt be any better off or any worse off than he already was.

Who has the imprisonment been the hardest on? I don't see how you can think that it has been easier for Jack. Each of the three characters has endured an attempted "breaking down". Admittedly, the physical aspect was much worse for Sawyer and Kate, but the real breaking down is a psychological one. Jack was completely alone as well. He'd have taken Kate over a hamburger any day.
I don't have a problem with Sawyer not saving Jack when he's in the midst of the Others. It would have been nice to hear something from him, though about Jack.

I don't really see any established heros on the show at all!! Maybe it's only me and my perspective, I don't know. I think everyone does what they have to do at the time.
Some characters are more unselfish than others, some are more of a leader and some stay by themselves. I think some characters have the potential to be heroic. However I haven't seen a really great moment where I said "Hey what a hero"!!!

I think everyone does what they have to do at the time.
Some characters are more unselfish than others, some are more of a leader and some stay by themselves.

Great point. They are after all flawed characters, seeking redemption or growth of some sort. Perfect example of this is that both Jack and Juliet are seen as leaders of a sort in their respective groups, yet neither feels they are a leader. I like that each character is unique. They are a microcosm of everyone.