Another "the world will end" statement. This has got to be more than a psych experiment. I definitely think there's something legit going on, I just don't know what... anyone have thoughts? I don't even really know where to begin.

Well, I think we're to assume Desmond already saved the world by pressing the button and keeping the magnetic anomaly in check. Then when he had no other choice but to implode the anomaly by turning the failsafe key, he saved the world for sure.

so the button is really the saving the world bit, not anything else that might happen or was done?

The woman said, "You MUST go to the island, press the button, and MUST use the fail safe key or WE WILL ALL DIE".

Meaning, if he didn't use the key, they would all die...putting a complete twist on things and what Desmond thought the purpose of the hatch was.

So I'm guessing destroying the hatch meant saved the world, rather than not destroying the hatch and letting someone forget to push the button and destroy the world?

Idk, i need to rewatch.

:blowup:

The woman said, "You MUST go to the island, press the button, and MUST use the fail safe key or WE WILL ALL DIE".

Meaning, if he didn't use the key, they would all die...putting a complete twist on things and what Desmond thought the purpose of the hatch was.


I think you're right, and it does hurt my head. So. His destiny was to go to the island and use the key. Which he did. Which put him in his own past long enough to... realize he achieved greatness by turning the key and saving the world? This is an interesting twist, becasue all season 2, the general feeling was that if they did not press the button, the world would end, and as it turns out, the opposite was true. Yes?

So maybe Locke was right when he said "No. I just saved us all" after breaking the hatch computer.

Ok, this was a weird thought, but I will throw it out anyway: it crossed my mind that the whole episode was part of some "alternate" reality, and if Desmond didn't do things he was "supposed" to do in that reality, that alternate dimension would be destroyed, or simply cease to exist. Very strange thought, but if anyone can make sense out of that, have at it.

If this was Desmond's dream, and the woman was his subconscious, OF COURSE she'd say that he had to go to the Island to save the world. Desmond NEEDED to believe that what he'd been doing on the Island was significant. That at least the BUTTON was something heroic he'd done. Something that made him MATTER. Desmond is very much like Locke in this mindset (small wonder they got along!), if he's not quite so overbearing about it all.

Penny had it right. Des is a good man. That's a rarety in this world. But this world has us all convinced that being a good person isn't enough. You have to be rich (a la Widmore), a big hero (a la the military), a WINNER in the eyes of people (a la the boat race). It's never enough to just be yourself--even if "yourself" is a pretty terrific person. Penny grasps this; Desmond (and Locke, for that matter) has yet to do so.

Yes, the mirror images suggest an alternate reality. Did you notice the painting in Widmore's office of the polar bear? Namaste was written backwards.

So maybe Locke was right when he said "No. I just saved us all" after breaking the hatch computer.
Not necessarily. What happens if Desmond doesn't have the failsafe key after Locke busts up the computer... ?

The world could be saved either by pushing the button and keeping the EM build-up from blowing sky high OR by turning the fail-safe key and dissipating it altogether. The world ends (presumably) if one neither pushes the button nor turns the key.

Cardie

What do they do if the EM somehow builds up again?

So maybe Locke was right when he said "No. I just saved us all" after breaking the hatch computer.

THIS has stayed with me the whole course of the series.... first in Season 1 (early on) Jack asks Charlie about Locke, to which Charlie replied, "If there is one man I believe to truly save us all, it is John Locke." (misquote??)

Then in the Season 2 finale, when John smashes the computer and says, "No-I just saved us all," I got goosebumps!

I'm telling ya.... somewhere between Desmond and Locke - they will hold the key to the grand finale. Just a thought.
100%
Yes, the mirror images suggest an alternate reality. Did you notice the painting in Widmore's office of the polar bear? Namaste was written backwards.

Whoa - anyone grab a screencap of this???

What do they do if the EM somehow builds up again?

It won't. Dharma concentrated the island's EM power for some reason or other by building the Swan mechanism. They may have thought that it was a key to the world's energy needs if harnessed, or maybe it was their way to let them travel to and from the island without getting lost due to its effects on navigation equipment. Once it dissipated, it put the island back to its natural state.

Cardie

Whats the difference between turning the key and not pushing the button?

Here's my two cents worth....the Others have selected people in the "real" world that can be easily manipulated for their chosen purposes....kind of a lab monkey, if you will. So far, Juliet and now Desmond have shown they are useful for certain purposes, i.e., medical reseach and following specific orders, to keep the Others and their location safe. I think Desmond was brain washed or hypnotized to follow a certain pre-destined chain of events that would put him on the island and when the hatch blew, he experienced a flashback of sorts to what happened that lead him up to that moment. I believe he was chosen due to his psychic abilities as from what I know and have read, it makes the mind more suceptable to suggestions. And without trying to spoil anything for those who don't watch the previews, I think next week will make that much clearer. Any thoughts or comments?

Which "we" did she mean? Perhaps she didn't mean "we" as in all of mankind but "we" as in all of the Dharma folks or "we" as in all of the time travelling folks or something else?

For screencap and discussion of Namaste painting, see the Easter Egg discussion thread.

Another "the world will end" statement. This has got to be more than a psych experiment. I definitely think there's something legit going on, I just don't know what... anyone have thoughts? I don't even really know where to begin.


This is getting to be too much like "The Matrix" and the unsettling part is that once
the mythos of "The Matrix" was revealed... IT SUCKED. My suck alarms are going
off!

Whats the difference between turning the key and not pushing the button?
The failsafe key is the solution to the problem caused by not pushing the button.

Status quo: push the button every 108 minutes. Stop pressing the button: anomaly goes critical, we all die. Use the failsafe: in Kelvin's words, "this all goes away." Hatch implodes, anomaly gone, we live.

As for what other implications using the failsafe has had, we have yet to find out...
100%
This is getting to be too much like "The Matrix" and the unsettling part is that once
the mythos of "The Matrix" was revealed... IT SUCKED. My suck alarms are going
off!
Oh, it wasn't that bad! Even if it did require advanced degrees in philosophy, history, and mathematics to sort out... ;)

Which "we" did she mean? Perhaps she didn't mean "we" as in all of mankind but "we" as in all of the Dharma folks or "we" as in all of the time travelling folks or something else?




That was my thinking as well WE does not necessarily mean the world.

If this was Desmond's dream, and the woman was his subconscious, OF COURSE she'd say that he had to go to the Island to save the world. Desmond NEEDED to believe that what he'd been doing on the Island was significant. That at least the BUTTON was something heroic he'd done. Something that made him MATTER. Desmond is very much like Locke in this mindset (small wonder they got along!), if he's not quite so overbearing about it all.

Penny had it right. Des is a good man. That's a rarety in this world. But this world has us all convinced that being a good person isn't enough. You have to be rich (a la Widmore), a big hero (a la the military), a WINNER in the eyes of people (a la the boat race). It's never enough to just be yourself--even if "yourself" is a pretty terrific person. Penny grasps this; Desmond (and Locke, for that matter) has yet to do so.

You've pretty muched summarized my first gut reaction to the whole "time travel" Desmond theory. Desmond still doesn't even truly know how the hatch imploded or how/why he survived it. His "dream" was is his subconscious trying to right the ship, so to speak. He needs to believe that he can "save the world," and be a good enough man for Penny. What's that damn Occam's razor thing again? What's a more likely scenario:

1.) After being subjected to a massive surge of electromagnetic energy, Desmond's brain was altered giving him pre-cognitive glimpses

2.) Desmond has actually lived his life multiple times, each time playing the savior of the world by turning a key... which saves the world exactly how?

I'm inclined to believe scenario #2 for a multitude of reasons. Desmond's "visions" while accurate have, to this point, only been of events that occur less than 24 hours later. I'm not saying that it isn't remarkable, but intuition and physic phenomenon aren't unheard of (we know that Dharma was heavy into remote viewing and such). Also, if "Desmondo" is indeed the savior of this apocalyptic "loop," doesn't that render pretty much every other character on the show kind of powerless and pointless?

If wormholes and time-bending is the writer's "endgame" for this show I for one will feel pretty ripped off because it wreaks of essentially a loftier version of the "it's all a dream" theory. Weren't we the viewers assured that wasn't the case long ago? Also, I feel like it's too much at once. It feels like a setup. "Not it Portland" gives us Room 23 with all kinds of "time" suggestions (which was being guarded by a guy reading A Brief History of Time) and the MITTELOS anagram. I think Dharma and the Others are very much interested and invested in tweaking with the laws of physics but I don't believe they've cracked that nut yet.

If failsafe just is the ultimate button push, why not do it earlier? Why push the button?

If failsafe just is the ultimate button push, why not do it earlier? Why push the button?

The button releases just enough of the EM build-up to keep it from overloading and destroying the whole island (if not the world.) The fail safe releases all of the energy and dissipates it into the atmosphere. The reason not to turn the fail safe key is that 1) it was assumed that you would be killed when you did it and 2) Dharma was obviously invested in having the island's EM energy concentrated and contained in the concrete bunker in the Swan and didn't want to let it get out if they didn't have to. But letting it out was Plan B to button pushing, because the other alternative was complete annihilation.

Cardie

Ok, this was a weird thought, but I will throw it out anyway: it crossed my mind that the whole episode was part of some "alternate" reality, and if Desmond didn't do things he was "supposed" to do in that reality, that alternate dimension would be destroyed, or simply cease to exist. Very strange thought, but if anyone can make sense out of that, have at it.

Yes, the mirror images suggest an alternate reality. Did you notice the painting in Widmore's office of the polar bear? Namaste was written backwards.

That was my thinking as well WE does not necessarily mean the world.


We are discussing this particular idea in this thread...

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=69432

What I thought was significant about what she told Desmond was that she basically said the greatest thing he could ever do was push the button and save the world. Now that that is done with, I think it'll end up an even greater moment for Des is coming, one involving whether or not he can change destiny and save Charlie.

I agree with others here who have suggested that the "we all" who will die is open to interpretation. I would like to submit that I think the "world" that is supposedly being saved is also open to interpretation. Desmond pushing the button (or turning the key) is "saving the world" - but who's world, and for what purpose?

I think what we currently know about DHARMA and/or Widmore, et. al. lends itself to the theory that those groups were concerned with this island because it serves their own purposes - not out of a concern for the betterment of mankind. Desmond is led to believe that his pushing that button is serving humanity by saving the planet - I think this is a foil for something else. The purpose of the button must appear to be something extraordinary so that the "pushers" will risk their sanity and their life to continue pushing it.

I just think that pushing the button, and whatever pushing the button did, is about something more than literally saving planet Earth and inhabitants in a physical way. I do believe pushing the button/turning the key did something, but I am not sure what...

Am I making sense? I guess my basic questions are WHO stands to benefit from putting these button pushers in a hatch on an island and WHAT is really being saved/protected by them doing it?

Oh yes, and also HOW any of this makes any sense at all, and WHY am I this concerned about the plot of a TV show? :)

If this was Desmond's dream, and the woman was his subconscious, OF COURSE she'd say that he had to go to the Island to save the world. Desmond NEEDED to believe that what he'd been doing on the Island was significant. That at least the BUTTON was something heroic he'd done. Something that made him MATTER. Desmond is very much like Locke in this mindset (small wonder they got along!), if he's not quite so overbearing about it all.

Penny had it right. Des is a good man. That's a rarety in this world. But this world has us all convinced that being a good person isn't enough. You have to be rich (a la Widmore), a big hero (a la the military), a WINNER in the eyes of people (a la the boat race). It's never enough to just be yourself--even if "yourself" is a pretty terrific person. Penny grasps this; Desmond (and Locke, for that matter) has yet to do so.

So you're saying that Desmond should make his own kind of music? Interesting....

Which "we" did she mean? Perhaps she didn't mean "we" as in all of mankind but "we" as in all of the Dharma folks or "we" as in all of the time travelling folks or something else?

this is where everyone gets all off track.

The woman (IMO actually Mrs Hanso)...never said Desmond "you need to do it or we will all die"

She actually said..."desmond you must push the button or all of US will die"

We = me, you and everyone associted with us.

US = a group that I belong to.

"Waiter, can you get us some drinks?"...the waiter would not grab one for himself would he?

this is where everyone gets all off track.

The woman (IMO actually Mrs Hanso)...never said Desmond "you need to do it or we will all die"

She actually said..."desmond you must push the button or all of US will die"

We = me, you and everyone associted with us.

US = a group that I belong to.

"Waiter, can you get us some drinks?"...the waiter would not grab one for himself would he?


Thank you and I could kick myself. I am usually such a stickler for dialogue ( for example- the psychic never said that Claire had to raise the baby ALONE nor did he say it would be evil if she didn't. He said that 'you yourself must raise him or the baby would not have a happy life) so I can't believe that I let this one get past me.

That does clarify things a bit.