Okay, I understand Des can see the future. I also saw Des rescue Charlie from the lightning bolt and the swimming accident (well, he went in after Claire...). I still don't understand why Des is going the extra mile to protect Charlie. I mean, other people have died on the island. What makes Charlie so special?

I can see if Penny was on the island and Des was trying to save her...I just don't get the Charlie-Des connection. It's Charlie's time to go, so how does this impact Des?

I think it's just that Charlie's death is the one that Desmond sees. Why, I don't know. But I think it shows that Desmond is braver than he gives himself credit for. He would save a stranger. He was angry at the old lady for letting the man die and not doing something to stop it. He may not have foreseen Eko's death (who knows why) but he sees Charlie's and he wants to help. He's just a good person.

Now why is it only Charlie's death? Maybe Charlie is important somehow to the rest of the islander's fates. ("Save the junkie, save the world")

It doesn't matter that they aren't friends. It doesn't matter that it's Charlie. Desmond knows that someone is going to die and he's not going to stand by and let it happen. Just like when he told the bartender to duck, I doubt it was out of love it was just because Desmond isn't the sort of person who can just stand by and not care.

Think about it.. if you knew some random person you see everyday and have chatted with a few times was going to die.. absolutely going to die but if you did something you could forestall their death maybe even stop it .. would you stand by and let it happen?

I agree! Desmond was trying to do what anyone would do in that circumstance. He's protecting Charlie because its Charlie's death he foresees. Plus, Charlie has needed a good storyline for some time. This has definite possibilities.

Well my theory goes is that this Desmond that we see is a future Desmond still jumping to various points in his life. Currently he is in our time and seeing stuff from his past (but our Losties future) happening like deja vu just like in tonight's flashback. Desmond was not around when Eko met the smoke monster so he couldn't see that deja vu event since he wasnt' there the first time to remember it. Plus Des is a nice guy and even if Charlie is supposed to die, who wouldn't want to give him a few more days if you had the chance.

So if I'm Charlie, I'm gonna start sticking to Desmond like glue. If he's the only one that knows when that big safe is going to fall on my head or whatever, I wouldn't leave his side. He's an important guy to have around at all times.

But Desmond may not "see" every time Charlie's life is in danger.

If he can change Charlie's 'fate' then there is hope that his own fate of never being with Penny can also be changed.

Its basic human compassion at work here...and hope.

I suspect Desmond feels that Charlie is an important part in remembering his past.

But Desmond may not "see" every time Charlie's life is in danger.

Right, that's why Desmond tells him he can't keep doing it forever, that eventually he will miss one and Charlie will die that way. But that is only true if you believe the old lady about fate being irreversable. Is death really Charlie's path? If she is wrong and Desmond saves Charlie again and again, he may break the cycle the third, fourth or fifth time but he has to have faith and he has to keep trying.

I agree, Desmond doesn't seem to be the type to just sit around and let bad things happen. I wouldn't mind having him as my personal life saver :)

I agree Erin1679! I think alot of women feel that way!
Desmond is a good man, and if he is seeing these things happening to Charlie, why wouldn't he try and stop them from happening? I don't know how many times he can save him but I guarantee things are going to get interesting. I feel sorry for Charlie fans, now they have to worry during every episode. I think Charlie will be alright, but still if he's your favorite it must be nervewracking.

Desmond described it. It's an experience. He's testing the fate's "natural" course correction. Experimenting with what happens if he tries to change fate. Previously, he adapted himself to the future he knew would come, accepting fate and losing Penny. Now he's running a small experience. :)

I don't know how many times he can save him but I guarantee things are going to get interesting. I feel sorry for Charlie fans, now they have to worry during every episode. I think Charlie will be alright, but still if he's your favorite it must be nervewracking.


You. Have. No. Idea. :fear3: :hide: :20: :42: :63:

This may be a cool storyline for Charlie and I appreciate the screentime but I'm cursing TPTB right now for doing this to me.

I feel sorry for Charlie fans, now they have to worry during every episode. I think Charlie will be alright, but still if he's your favorite it must be nervewracking.


Like Pace said - it's a mixed blessing. Charlie gets a cool storyline and decent screentime, but his death could be on the cards. Personally I'll take the danger over watching Charlie play a bit-part as Claires babysitter or Ekos oddjobs man.

can i just say that i LOVED that charlie was outside the widmore offices singing "wonderwall" ! ... "because maybe/you're gonna be the one who saves me"

Wow, I get it. I thought Des was saving Claire. Infact, I think Charlie thinks that. I think Charlie thinks Des is going to steal Claire from him. I was so wrapped up with that that I lost the inference that Des is saving Charlie.

How did you interpret that Des called Charlie "pal" instead of "brotha"? Maybe he's annoyed that he has to save him.

Personally I'll take the danger over watching Charlie play a bit-part as Claires babysitter or Ekos oddjobs man. ITA. I'd rather have a decent storyline for Charlie and then having him die than sit around and do basically nothing and live (like almost all of season 2.:frown: )

As for Desmond - I hope he doesn't give up. Keep going Des!!

Wow, I get it. I thought Des was saving Claire. Infact, I think Charlie thinks that. I think Charlie thinks Des is going to steal Claire from him. I was so wrapped up with that that I lost the inference that Des is saving Charlie.

This is what I think: I think that Charlie will put this together and realize that by simply hanging around Claire he has been putting her and the baby in danger. Charlie will now feel like a walking curse, just like Hurley and he will suddenly cut Claire off and stay away form her to her massive confusion. When that happens, I hope Desmond tells her why he's doing it, because I'm curious to know if Claire would show she gave two shakes about what happens to Charlie. I want to see Claire have some reaction, any reaction to the news and Charlie's selfless gesture of staying away from her for her own protection when it's clearly not what he wants.

It's a cruel blow for Charlie that he should feel he has to do this just when Claire forgave him.

I agree Erin1679! I think alot of women feel that way!
Desmond is a good man, and if he is seeing these things happening to Charlie, why wouldn't he try and stop them from happening? I don't know how many times he can save him but I guarantee things are going to get interesting. I feel sorry for Charlie fans, now they have to worry during every episode. I think Charlie will be alright, but still if he's your favorite it must be nervewracking.
i am one of those Charlie fans :frown:

I am sure that if Desmond knew that Eko was going to get killed by the black smoke, he would have at least tried to help.

When he saw that Charlie was going to die, he figured he would try to save him, unlike the lady who just let the man with the red shoes get crushed to death. Maybe he figures he'll try to save a human being as long as he possibly can until Charlie dies of natural causes. Just like Penelope said Desmond is a good man.

This is what I think: I think that Charlie will put this together and realize that by simply hanging around Claire he has been putting her and the baby in danger. Charlie will now feel like a walking curse, just like Hurley and he will suddenly cut Claire off and stay away form her to her massive confusion. When that happens, I hope Desmond tells her why he's doing it, because I'm curious to know if Claire would show she gave two shakes about what happens to Charlie. I want to see Claire have some reaction, any reaction to the news and Charlie's selfless gesture of staying away from her for her own protection when it's clearly not what he wants.

It's a cruel blow for Charlie that he should feel he has to do this just when Claire forgave him.

:frown: Yeah, that is very saddening. But then every time things are going well for Charlie and Claire something crops up to ruin it for them (Ethan, heroin-filled Marys, death prophecys) And yes, if Charlie backs away from Claire or if Claire learns about what Charlie is facing, it's a great way of forcing Claire to show how she really feels about this guy.

Personally I think it'll be a case of "you don't know what you've got till it's gone" with Claire. I think shes gotten used to having Charlie around and will be scared to lose him.

:frown: Yeah, that is very saddening. But then every time things are going well for Charlie and Claire something crops up to ruin it for them (Ethan, heroin-filled Marys, death prophecys) And yes, if Charlie backs away from Claire or if Claire learns about what Charlie is facing, it's a great way of forcing Claire to show how she really feels about this guy.

Personally I think it'll be a case of "you don't know what you've got till it's gone" with Claire. I think shes gotten used to having Charlie around and will be scared to lose him.

Definitely. I believe that was what caused Claire to take his hand and kiss him last time, both times facing down the reality of his death. Then when Charlie's there, she changes her mind again. I think this will elicit a similar reaction but I hope this time, she actually works through this difficulty she has and makes a decision where Charlie's concerned. His jealousy may be irksome, but Calire's behaviour also encourages it and I really feel bad for him.

Definitely. I believe that was what caused Claire to take his hand and kiss him last time, both times facing down the reality of his death. Then when Charlie's there, she changes her mind again. I think this will elicit a similar reaction but I hope this time, she actually works through this difficulty she has and makes a decision where Charlie's concerned. His jealousy may be irksome, but Calire's behaviour also encourages it and I really feel bad for him.

I think you're being a bit kind where Charlie is concerned. If I was Claire I'd be a bit annoyed by how smothering Charlie is.

I think you're being a bit kind where Charlie is concerned. If I was Claire I'd be a bit annoyed by how smothering Charlie is.

That's fine, but in that case then she should dump him. I'm not bothered about that, just the fact that Claire keeps him around if she doesn't want him around. She needs to either accept the whole package or tell him no. That's why I think a lot of this is Claire's fault. She'll complain to Locke about him but she'll never say anything to Charlie's face and in the meantime Charlie's confused by her which I understand. If she keeps him around because she really cares for him, she should commit herself fully and stop this waffling. If she is also irked by his behaviour, she needs to say something or end the relationship.

That's fine, but in that case then she should dump him. I'm not bothered about that, just the fact that Claire keeps him around if she doesn't want him around. She needs to either accept the whole package or tell him no. That's why I think a lot of this is Claire's fault. She'll complain to Locke about him but she'll never say anything to Charlie's face and in the meantime Charlie's confused by her which I understand. If she keeps him around because she really cares for him, she should commit herself fully and stop this waffling. If she is also irked by his behaviour, she needs to say something or end the relationship.

I agree. It's the idea of Claire stringing Charlie along that bothers me. I think one of the saddest aspects of Charlie is that if a person just gives him just the smallest bit of affection - then they have themselves their very own loyal and willing slave. Charlie gets used all the time. Liam got him into Driveshaft (and heroin) then dropped him. Eko got him to help with his church then dropped him. Claire got him to risk his neck to save her baby and then moans about him and kicks him out. It is the using that gets to me. Charlie is so needy that it's easy to use him - but it's not nice at all.

I think it's just that Charlie's death is the one that Desmond sees. Why, I don't know. But I think it shows that Desmond is braver than he gives himself credit for. He would save a stranger. He was angry at the old lady for letting the man die and not doing something to stop it. He may not have foreseen Eko's death (who knows why) but he sees Charlie's and he wants to help. He's just a good person.

Now why is it only Charlie's death? Maybe Charlie is important somehow to the rest of the islander's fates. ("Save the junkie, save the world")

He doesn't save Eko because the island doesn't want him to. The island is controlling everything, including what it showed Desmond in his trip back in time, though I doubt he did much traveling in time. I think it was more of an illustration of the island letting him interact with his memories, kinda like the room on Star Trek the Next Generation that showed an interactive hologram. What was that called?

He doesn't save Eko because the island doesn't want him to. The island is controlling everything, including what it showed Desmond in his trip back in time, though I doubt he did much traveling in time. I think it was more of an illustration of the island letting him interact with his memories, kinda like the room on Star Trek the Next Generation that showed an interactive hologram. What was that called?

The holodeck. :)

I agree. It's the idea of Claire stringing Charlie along that bothers me. I think one of the saddest aspects of Charlie is that if a person just gives him just the smallest bit of affection - then they have themselves their very own loyal and willing slave. Charlie gets used all the time. Liam got him into Driveshaft (and heroin) then dropped him. Eko got him to help with his church then dropped him. Claire got him to risk his neck to save her baby and then moans about him and kicks him out. It is the using that gets to me. Charlie is so needy that it's easy to use him - but it's not nice at all.

Thanks Cappy, that's exactly it. I'm not picking sides as to who's right or wrong, but the way Claire blows hot and cold, I feel for Charlie. At her worst I always feared she took avantage of his good nature. If he annoys her then she shouldn't get free babysitting either. Claire wants to have it all.

I hope Charlie doesn't die. And Desmond saves him for good.

I honestly believed that the smoke monster had its own perrogative in dealing with Eko, thus preventing Desmond to interfere with it. Charlie was going to get hit by lightning or drown, not get taken from the monster.

Okay, I understand Des can see the future. I also saw Des rescue Charlie from the lightning bolt and the swimming accident (well, he went in after Claire...). I still don't understand why Des is going the extra mile to protect Charlie. I mean, other people have died on the island. What makes Charlie so special?

I can see if Penny was on the island and Des was trying to save her...I just don't get the Charlie-Des connection. It's Charlie's time to go, so how does this impact Des?

Before the incident Desmond couldn't see the future but since he turned the key he might figure that now that he has this gift, he might as well use it. If you were having visions of someone dying, wouldn't you try and stop it?
And with the whole destiny concept, maybe it's his job to protect Charlie from future incidents. Meaning Charlie might be needed somehow in the future.
If the writers killed off Charlie, I wouldn't be happy.

That's fine, but in that case then she should dump him. I'm not bothered about that, just the fact that Claire keeps him around if she doesn't want him around. She needs to either accept the whole package or tell him no. That's why I think a lot of this is Claire's fault. She'll complain to Locke about him but she'll never say anything to Charlie's face and in the meantime Charlie's confused by her which I understand. If she keeps him around because she really cares for him, she should commit herself fully and stop this waffling. If she is also irked by his behaviour, she needs to say something or end the relationship.

To be honest, I can't blame Claire for Charlie's issues. If it looks like she's giving him the cold shoulder, I think it's only in comparison to Charlie's smothering. Frankly, I think they both really adore each other, but things are getting in the way of them finally truly being with each other. Charlie is insecure and therefore afraid of losing Claire. That is why he gets jealous over any time she spends with anothe rman. Claire, on the other hand, is afraid of getting too close to Charlie lest he abandon her; Charlie is paying the price because of her own issues with the men in her life. One of these days, these crazy kids will get it together. Charlie will realize that Claire loves him for himself and will not leave him and Claire will realize that Charlie loves her and she can trust him.
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I agree. It's the idea of Claire stringing Charlie along that bothers me. I think one of the saddest aspects of Charlie is that if a person just gives him just the smallest bit of affection - then they have themselves their very own loyal and willing slave. Charlie gets used all the time. Liam got him into Driveshaft (and heroin) then dropped him. Eko got him to help with his church then dropped him. Claire got him to risk his neck to save her baby and then moans about him and kicks him out. It is the using that gets to me. Charlie is so needy that it's easy to use him - but it's not nice at all.

I don't see how Claire has used Charlie at all - the girl is a new mother with major abandonment issues. Also, Charlie CHOSE to risk his neck for her - Claire most definitely did not twist him around her little finger to do anything for her (that was Shannon). Remember, she was pregnant and alone in the jungle and she wanted Charlie to go back to the other Losties. I thought the other Losties judged Charlie way too harshly last year when they thought he was kidnapping Aaron (after all, they are no angels and who are they to judge?), and I have a lot of sympathy for a troubled but really decent guy..........but not at Claire's expense. I think she's taking a bum rap.

I'm so confused. Didn't Charlie die in S1 only to be brought back to life by Jack. He seemed pretty dead to me but I can't remember the discussions about it that ensued. Is it possible that Desmond has some generalised vision about Charlie dying trying to rescue Claire (or in some other aspect of his relationship with her) and extrapolates from that to specifics without doesn't knowing that the vision has already been fulfilled?

Claire most definitely did not twist him around her little finger to do anything for her

But when Aaron was taken she went specifically to Charlie and begged him to bring Aaron back.

But when Aaron was taken she went specifically to Charlie and begged him to bring Aaron back.

No, actually she wanted to come and try to get Aaron back with them. Charlie tried to calm her down, and she asked him to get Aaron back. I don't think she would turn to Sayid, they barely interact.

But when Aaron was taken she went specifically to Charlie and begged him to bring Aaron back.

I have to agree there. Claire was asking a lot of Charlie when she asked him to get Aaron back. Sayid was going too, but Claire put all the responsibility on Charlie.

Aaron had been kidnapped by a crazy trigger-happy French woman and (as far as they knew) was being delievered to the tribe of evil natives who hung Charlie from a tree. Claire was asking him to risk his life for her and her baby. Which Charlie was willing to do, but I don't think Claire should be asking so much of a person who she later refers to as "a stranger". I wouldn't ask a stranger to risk their life for me. I don't really blame Charlie for feeling like he must be important to Claire and Aaron, because Claire handed Charlie that responsibilty. Claire was right to be angry when Charlie lied to her and betrayed her in S2. I'm 100% fine with Claire being angry at Charlie - it is when Claire treats Charlie like he means nothing to her and never has that I get annoyed with Claire.

Aside from that Claire has kissed Charlie. Claire, please don't kiss Charlie and then go running after another guy. I'm still pissed at Kate for doing that to Jack (and I'm not even a Jater!).

But when Aaron was taken she went specifically to Charlie and begged him to bring Aaron back.

When I think of someone using another, I think of what Shannon did to Charlie (flirting with him so he'd catch her some fish). It's not like Claire doesn't have genuine feelings for Charlie (re: her diary), but that doesn't mean she can't be mad at him (like after it appeared he took her baby, after she found out about the drugs). To be honest, C and C have hardly had any scenes together in the last season in a half - there simply has not been any real plot development on their behalf (thanks to Jack, Kate and Sawyer. That's a shame, because not only are Emilie and Don terrific actors, their characters have so much to offer and there is so much to explore in their relationship. Dom admits that Charlie has issues for which he must resolve before he is able even to be in a committed relationhip - I know that Claire does too, since she still doesn't appear to fully trust anyone.
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I have to agree there. Claire was asking a lot of Charlie when she asked him to get Aaron back. Sayid was going too, but Claire put all the responsibility on Charlie.

Aaron had been kidnapped by a crazy trigger-happy French woman and (as far as they knew) was being delievered to the tribe of evil natives who hung Charlie from a tree. Claire was asking him to risk his life for her and her baby. Which Charlie was willing to do, but I don't think Claire should be asking so much of a person who she later refers to as "a stranger". I wouldn't ask a stranger to risk their life for me. I don't really blame Charlie for feeling like he must be important to Claire and Aaron, because Claire handed Charlie that responsibilty. Claire was right to be angry when Charlie lied to her and betrayed her in S2. I'm 100% fine with Claire being angry at Charlie - it is when Claire treats Charlie like he means nothing to her and never has that I get annoyed with Claire.

Aside from that Claire has kissed Charlie. Claire, please don't kiss Charlie and then go running after another guy. I'm still pissed at Kate for doing that to Jack (and I'm not even a Jater!).


I don't think Claire will be doing that at all, but Charlie will make it look like that because he is insanely, suffocatingly jealous. As much as I like him, he's so insecure that he seems to want to control Claire. She can't be with Desmond for five minutes before he comes waltzing over; I don't believe for a second he thought that Aaron couldn't wait a few minutes. Charlie just didn't want Claire with Desmond and it's why he was rude when Desmond said they should build a shelter before the lightning storm. As much as I want C/C, I don't want it like this. It's unhealthy to say the least.

Could it be cz Desmond sees charlie at the street, right in front of Widmore's building, playing "Wonderwall" right at the "you gotta be the one who saves me?" part?