If someone loops back to the beginning of the crash on the island might they be able to save boone or shannon or artz or echo? knowing how they died might they be able to prevent it?

Interesting, but the producers have always responded negatively when asked if dead characters would return, outside of flashbacks.

They also responded negatively to any use of time travel, yet we've seen it in this episode. Even if it was in the form of a dream, a flashback, or actual time travel, it still happened. It was still an episode based on it. So I take what they say with a fist full of salt,as it changes so much. :D

please dont jump to conclusions.we HAVENT seen anything close to time travel.we really dont know what we ve seen yet.so we better hold our horses and try be sensible.as for a zombie season? I say BRING IT ON!:cool:

Well, we DID see 'time travel' if your definition of time travel is fairly loose. Desmond consciously went back into the past, however it's not clear if he ALWAYS acted that way, and was just remembering it, or if he actively changed the past. I'm more inclined to lean towards the former, I think his life just flashed before his eyes and he remembered the time we saw in the flashback, which he had previously forgotten most of due to getting hit in the head, most likely causing a concussion.

However, i find it unlikely the losties will return, because I find it unlikely that anyone is actually "looping", I don't think anyone looped and I think it's stretching based on what we saw to assume that. We didn't actually see a loop, we saw desmond go back in time (debatable), and then when he got hit in the head he came to AFTER turning the key. Thats not really a loop.

However, even assuming theres some looping going on, based on what we've been told so far, their deaths would be unavoidable, if boone didn't die from the plane, he would have died from a polar bear the next day, or killed by an other, or drowned. Based on what we learned it seems that, presumably, even if they know what will happen, they can't stop it, just prolong it.

time travel taking place via ones mind???id say bring THAT one on too!in my books,thats not called time travel,but fantasy or memory...

time travel taking place via ones mind???id say bring THAT one on too!in my books,thats not called time travel,but fantasy or memory...

I'd call that memory. That's what I was meaning to get across anyway, the Desmond didn't really go back in time.. but he somehow gained knowledge of his entire life when he turned the key (past/future), and when he turned they key he remembered what he did during those few days. So it'd basically be an extremely vivid memory, or maybe even just a normal memory.

Regardless it seems certain that he DID gain knowledge of his entire life when he flipped the key. So if anyone thinks that crosses the bounds of fantasy sci-fi that they don't want to go into then... well Lost may not be the right show for you. However even the craziest of time travel theories are perfectly plausible in extremely theoretical string or quantum theories. So basically when the producers said that everything would have a scienetific or pseudoscience answer, they didn't limit themselves from anything.

Regardless it seems certain that he DID gain knowledge of his entire life when he flipped the key. So if anyone thinks that crosses the bounds of fantasy sci-fi that they don't want to go into then... well Lost may not be the right show for you. However even the craziest of time travel theories are perfectly plausible in extremely theoretical string or quantum theories. So basically when the producers said that everything would have a scienetific or pseudoscience answer, they didn't limit themselves from anything.


with all due respect,i really dont get what you re tryingto say..he gained knowledge of his life WHEN he turned that key??so you mean,he gained knowledge of his pre island life,cause thats what were shown.but wasnt he always aware of his pre island self ,before he pushed that button?of course he was...clutching that pen pic of his with all his strength..
as for the whole ''this show is about sci-fi,time-travel,paraphysics and zombies walking on earth'' idea, we ALREADY are aware ,theres gonna be a SCIENTIFIC explanation.not PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC cos then it wouldn t be scientific but quite the OPPOSITE!ok?simple as that.and sci-fi ISNT science.fiction is fiction!period!
other than that i really hate arguing about this stuff.im sure we re all gonna be slapping ourselves with awe after final episode :)

with all due respect,i really dont get what you re tryingto say..he gained knowledge of his life WHEN he turned that key??so you mean,he gained knowledge of his pre island life,casue thats what were shown.but wasnt always aware of his pre island self ,before he pushed that button?of course he was...
as for the whole ''this show is about sci-fi,time-travel,paraphysics and zombies walking on earth'' idea, we ALREADY are aware ,theres gonna be SCIENTIFIC explanation.not PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC cos then it wouldn tbe scientific but quite the OPPOSITE!ok?simple as that.and sci-fi ISNT science.fiction is fiction!period!
other than that i really hate arguing about this stuff.im sure we re all gonna be slapping ourselves with awe after final episode :)

I'm probably not making sense, it seems to be that the more clear I try to be the more I go off on strange tangents and lose my actual point.

1) We aren't aware that everything will have a scientific explanation. I think people often take what the creative team says out of context. Unless I missed something all I've heard them say is that everything will have a scientific or pseudoscientific explanation. And infact... I can tell you straight out that everything CAN'T have a scientific explanation, since a scientific explanation would be incapable of explaining smokie, much less some of the even crazier things on the show. If you are holding out a for a 100% scientific explanation, it won't happen, sorry. And Science Fiction, is fiction based on scientific fact and theoretical science. However, I agree a lot of whats called science fiction, is just plain fiction.

2) Okay, what I was saying was when he turned the key his ENTIRE life flashed before his eyes. This is just what we were told. So what I'm saying is the flashback was him remembering (perhaps vividly) what happened during those 2-3 days of the flashback. I am saying that he previously didn't remember (atleast clearly) those days. After all, at the end he was hit pretty hard in the head, likely causing a concussion and perhaps some memory loss. So all I'm saying is he turns the key, gains knowledge of his entire life, and then "remembers" those days he previous forgot. Of course in some regards he must have gone back in time, since during the time of the flashback, he "remembered" the future as well.

. So what I'm saying is the flashback was him remembering (perhaps vividly) what happened during those 2-3 days of the flashback. I am saying that he previously didn't remember (atleast clearly) those days. . So all I'm saying is he turns the key, gains knowledge of his entire life, and then "remembers" those days he previous forgot..
ok,now i got it!except for when you say ''gained knowledge of his entire life''you actually mean ''gained knowledge of these 4 days he was previously unaware of''

i really dont know where i stand here,as all this is plain speculation on what this epi was about.i really dont know.ill just say it was a subconscious trip back to days of yore..

as for the scientific explanation story,yes ,we are told it will be one,and i d really like to trust darlton on this.:)so i just will!

Saw an interview with the guy who plays "Eko". He smiled when this question was posed (whether he'll be seen again in a flashback). He said "never say never"...

ok,now i got it!except for when you say ''gained knowledge of his entire life''you actually mean ''gained knowledge of these 4 days he was previously unaware of''

i really dont know where i stand here,as all this is plain speculation on what this epi was about.i really dont know.ill just say it was a subconscious trip back to days of yore..

as for the scientific explanation story,yes ,we are told it will be one,and i d really like to trust darlton on this.:)so i just will!

No i mean he gained knowledge of his entire life, including those 4 days. I don't think he always has this knowledge but just as "flashes". He said his entire life flash before his eyes, which I took to mean it was his ENTIRE life, past and future. I don't think he really remembers much of it but just gets it through is "flashes".

I think I'm probably muddling it up more, lol, but basically I think he got "flashes" of his entire life, which caused him to remember those 4 days he forgot, which caused him to have a little " subconcious trip back tot he days of yore".

As for scientific explanation, it probably depends on how rigidly you define "scientific". I think it'll be scientific in nature, but it'll probably utilize some degree of theoretical non-proven physics (such as string or quantum theory)

with all due respect,i really dont get what you re tryingto say..he gained knowledge of his life WHEN he turned that key??so you mean,he gained knowledge of his pre island life,cause thats what were shown.but wasnt he always aware of his pre island self ,before he pushed that button?of course he was...clutching that pen pic of his with all his strength..
as for the whole ''this show is about sci-fi,time-travel,paraphysics and zombies walking on earth'' idea, we ALREADY are aware ,theres gonna be a SCIENTIFIC explanation.not PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC cos then it wouldn t be scientific but quite the OPPOSITE!ok?simple as that.and sci-fi ISNT science.fiction is fiction!period!
other than that i really hate arguing about this stuff.im sure we re all gonna be slapping ourselves with awe after final episode :)

With all due respect, we're WAY past SCIENTIFIC explanations, unless you have smoke-monsters-that-turn-into-fists-and-body-slam-people, who-dont-normally-survive-highspeed-air-crashes-in-the-first-place, in your town...ok?

With all due respect, we're WAY past SCIENTIFIC explanations, unless you have smoke-monsters-that-turn-into-fists-and-body-slam-people, who-dont-normally-survive-highspeed-air-crashes-in-the-first-place, in your town...ok?


theres no chance you believe they actually survived a plane crash,right?(not even if it was landed slow and steady aided by electromagnetic fat arm sporting strata)were way past THAT !they found themselves there,but we really re completely clueless on how or why...
unless youre watching season 4..come on..spill it!i need that secret link

as for smokie ,it s a controllable security system and takes many different shapes as well..we still dont have a clue how it works,but as i said ID like to trust Darltons words..if you dont mind.:)

theres no chance you believe theres actually a plane crash,right?were way past THAT !they found themselves there,but we really re completely clueless on how or why...
unless youre watching season 4..come on..spill it!i need that secret link

as for smokie ,it s a controllable security system and takes many different shapes as well..we still dont have a clue how it works,but as i said ID like to trust Darltons words..if you dont mind.:)

I'm not sure they ever said that though. All I've seen them say is that it will have a scientific or pseudoscientific explanation. And what Pink Freud was trying to say (I think) is that given what we know about smokie, it DOESN'T act in accordance to anything in the scientific realm. Basically we know it's a big black smoke thing, that flashes images of peoples pasts when it comes in contact with them, and it pushes trees down.... there's not really a pure scientific way you can explain that unless the creative team has also developed such a machine. Unless of course they are all just plugged into a big machine and it's all fake... but... I know they've said thats not the case.

I guess Im firmly in the 'smoke-monsters-that-read-minds-are-textbook-pseudoscience and the Sayid-is-right "nobody's-that-lucky" camp...

no,im talking about a controllable THING ,a drone,SOMETHING! if i knew id really not be questioning myself,but rather be in hawaii and join the writing team.
and there could be a PURE scientific explanation on everything guys.lets just wait and see
were still on step one
far from knowledge
lets be patient,wait and see rather than jumping to conclusions ..
we re NOT scientists are we?and we re not aware if many matters are actually possible to happen or have happened.wikipedia is not science and internet is twice not science
so lets just wait and see

Well I saw in the previews that The Australian chick from the tale section is with the Others to "watch" Jack. so I thought that maybe all the people that have disappeared (or died) will come back in this episode (i.e. the children, eko, shannon, boone, maybe even ethan)

Well I saw in the previews that The Australian chick from the tale section is with the Others to "watch" Jack. so I thought that maybe all the people that have disappeared (or died) will come back in this episode (i.e. the children, eko, shannon, boone, maybe even ethan)
theres a HUGE difference between ''disappeared'' and ''died''..an extremely huge ,gigantic enormous difference