Lindelof " There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."

Lindelof at Comicon 2006 " It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there. [Crowd murmurs, someone says “Oh, no.”] I would say by the end of Season 3… that very different idea… "

And have i heard correctly on these forums that Des did in fact travel in time ?
Oh sure, TPTB know what they doing. Not making this up as they go along AT ALL !!!
:drowsy:

I think TPTB may be relying on the Obi-Wan Kenobi logic here - "What I told you was true ... from a certain point of view". If I ran into Lindelof on the street and cornered him with these two contradictory quotes, he'd probably say something along the lines of "Wellllll, it isn't time travel in the classic sense of hopping in a time machine and going backwards to a specific date... it wasn't a deliberate journey through time. Desmond's actions caused a rift in the fabric of space-time and joined their present with their own past. It wasn't so much travelling as it was, uh, merging".

And it would probably ring just as hollow as Lucas' trying to retrofit Vader as Skywalker's father (the difference being, of course, that even though Lucas may not have written it that way to begin with, it worked out very well, and wasn't a silly idea, like this time travelling is).

I don't think Lost's writers set out with time travel in mind, but (just my opinion here) I think that their creative well is tapped. They seem to be out of unique twists, or interesting places to take the story, so they're throwing this in the mix now, and either hoping that no one remembers that they said there would be no time travel, or relying on the Obi-Wan logic to spin this time travel nonsense as something they never really denied.

But I think another thing to consider is this - since we know for a fact that they have now contradicted themselves, this opens up all of the other theories which they dismissed out of hand as ridiculous. They've shown that they have no qualms about going back on things they've said, so perhaps they'll eventually decide that this is purgatory, or that it is all in Hurley's mind or whatnot. Perhaps they actually are on the back of a Cosmic Turtle.

By establishing that they have zero credibility, and are apparently creatively dried up enough to fall back on ideas which they dismissed as silly very early on, it's very hard to take them seriously at all, or respect what they are giving us.

It's possible that there really isn't any time travel. Des was unconsious and could've dreamed the whole thing. I also think that the producers are trying to throw people off track with their theories by saying that the survivors might not have been on the island as long as we think. Notice that Damon Lindelof flat-out said that there is no time travel. In the 2nd quote, he just said that the audience was making an assumption.

I think TPTB may be relying on the Obi-Wan Kenobi logic here - "What I told you was true ... from a certain point of view". If I ran into Lindelof on the street and cornered him with these two contradictory quotes, he'd probably say something along the lines of "Wellllll, it isn't time travel in the classic sense of hopping in a time machine and going backwards to a specific date... it wasn't a deliberate journey through time. Desmond's actions caused a rift in the fabric of space-time and joined their present with their own past. It wasn't so much travelling as it was, uh, merging".

And it would probably ring just as hollow as Lucas' trying to retrofit Vader as Skywalker's father (the difference being, of course, that even though Lucas may not have written it that way to begin with, it worked out very well, and wasn't a silly idea, like this time travelling is).

I don't think Lost's writers set out with time travel in mind, but (just my opinion here) I think that their creative well is tapped. They seem to be out of unique twists, or interesting places to take the story, so they're throwing this in the mix now, and either hoping that no one remembers that they said there would be no time travel, or relying on the Obi-Wan logic to spin this time travel nonsense as something they never really denied.

But I think another thing to consider is this - since we know for a fact that they have now contradicted themselves, this opens up all of the other theories which they dismissed out of hand as ridiculous. They've shown that they have no qualms about going back on things they've said, so perhaps they'll eventually decide that this is purgatory, or that it is all in Hurley's mind or whatnot. Perhaps they actually are on the back of a Cosmic Turtle.

By establishing that they have zero credibility, and are apparently creatively dried up enough to fall back on ideas which they dismissed as silly very early on, it's very hard to take them seriously at all, or respect what they are giving us.

Good post. Also, i think it's a last ditch attempt to appease the sci-fi fans, those people who were really interested in the mythological aspect of the show...people who have walked away because Lost turned into a messy soap opera.
Why do shows like this resort to love when trying to increase the character side ? Why the trodden down path of " 3's a crowd " ? Instead of improving and developing interesting characters we already have, they introduce new ones ?

Personally, i was interested in the myths and the characters. Both elements have now been melted down and sold off.

Really is sad what has happened to this program.

It's possible that there really isn't any time travel. Des was unconsious and could've dreamed the whole thing. I also think that the producers are trying to throw people off track with their theories by saying that the survivors might not have been on the island as long as we think. Notice that Damon Lindelof flat-out said that there is no time travel. In the 2nd quote, he just said that the audience was making an assumption.

Unfortunately, in this week's official Lost podcast, Damon Lindelof confirmed that Desmond travelled back to 1996 and may have changed some things while he was there.

Remember when they said "no spaceships"? $10 says we'll see a spaceship before the show is cancelled.

I think TPTB may be relying on the Obi-Wan Kenobi logic here - "What I told you was true ... from a certain point of view". If I ran into Lindelof on the street and cornered him with these two contradictory quotes, he'd probably say something along the lines of "Wellllll, it isn't time travel in the classic sense of hopping in a time machine and going backwards to a specific date... it wasn't a deliberate journey through time. Desmond's actions caused a rift in the fabric of space-time and joined their present with their own past. It wasn't so much travelling as it was, uh, merging".

And it would probably ring just as hollow as Lucas' trying to retrofit Vader as Skywalker's father (the difference being, of course, that even though Lucas may not have written it that way to begin with, it worked out very well, and wasn't a silly idea, like this time travelling is).

I don't think Lost's writers set out with time travel in mind, but (just my opinion here) I think that their creative well is tapped. They seem to be out of unique twists, or interesting places to take the story, so they're throwing this in the mix now, and either hoping that no one remembers that they said there would be no time travel, or relying on the Obi-Wan logic to spin this time travel nonsense as something they never really denied.

But I think another thing to consider is this - since we know for a fact that they have now contradicted themselves, this opens up all of the other theories which they dismissed out of hand as ridiculous. They've shown that they have no qualms about going back on things they've said, so perhaps they'll eventually decide that this is purgatory, or that it is all in Hurley's mind or whatnot. Perhaps they actually are on the back of a Cosmic Turtle.

By establishing that they have zero credibility, and are apparently creatively dried up enough to fall back on ideas which they dismissed as silly very early on, it's very hard to take them seriously at all, or respect what they are giving us.

It really is sad that the longer this show has gone on, the more easily it can be explained by something from Star Wars or a Stephen King novel. I mean I'm an adult nerd, but I hope there not just "name dropping" with the all these scientific and theological references only to surprise us with a comic book version of stories that most of the audience already know.

I think that's where two creators of the show come off as their most condescending. They reeled in an audience, that is smart and was interested in a TV show about very lofty ideas. Now they seem more interested in explaining how innovative they've become by introducing things from "left field." Guess what Darlton? I've read Stephen Hawking. In fact I've read other books too. So unless you're planning on actually incorporating any quantum physics into the show, count me out of the "The Official Lost Book Club: Recommended Readings."

Haven't listened to a podcast in ages. ***MOD edit for rudeness**

I'll never watch anything these people are involved with again. I might see out Lost because i want to see the crash and know i was right but they've made so many promises and haven't delivered or they've lied.

It's possible that there really isn't any time travel. Des was unconsious and could've dreamed the whole thing. I also think that the producers are trying to throw people off track with their theories by saying that the survivors might not have been on the island as long as we think. Notice that Damon Lindelof flat-out said that there is no time travel. In the 2nd quote, he just said that the audience was making an assumption.

They already said it was Time travel. There is a huge difference between saying there is no spaceship..no time travel long ago and NOW saying it was Time Travel at specific time in a specific episode. You can do the first but not the second. If guys dont see the difference..I dont know what to tell you

Obviously, with millions of people watching..someone is going to guess right..and the writers have to do play games in interviews. But this was a Podcast right after the TT episode and they confrimed it. They're not kidding here. Not only have they said it..it was so blatently obvious

I think you will also see in the end that Adam and Eve were always portrayed as 2 people who passed through time --and the clues were right there from the beginning

my thread on it
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70185

I've read that theory and it's not clear to me at all.

I also believe the writers backpedaled on the "time travel".

I haven't listened to the podcasts in a long time. I didn't realize that they admitted it was time travel. I agree that it is strange for them to say one thing and then turn around and do the opposite. They need to stop trying to please all of the sci-fi lovers and just do the show as they had originally planned. (Or does this prove that there really wasn't a plan and they are making things up as they go along?)

This thread is a god-send. I've been crazed about this since I heard the podcast.
If waking up in the past with your memories of the future and the ability to change
the past isn't time travel, I don't know what is. The clear contradiction between
Lindelof's statements puts everything TPTB have said into doubt.

I'd like to put the Limbo theory back on the table :grin:

I've read that theory and it's not clear to me at all.

I also believe the writers backpedaled on the "time travel".

They already said it was Time travel.

I know... they don't "buy" the word "yet" though.

"I can say that there will be other mystery things arising that will make the 'monster' pale in comparison to what you're going to want to find out. We're still trying to be firmly ensconced in the world of science fact. I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function in. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and being in a place where they probably shouldn't be, but nothing is flat out impossible. There are no spaceships, there isn't any time travel."


When the entire quote is taken into context, is shows him saying that they were trying to make certain that anything showed still had a "rational" explanation. Today...? Not so much.

Have you always read that quote this way?

Have you always read that quote this way?

Ever since I read the interview, yes.

Lie, lie and lie again. "There isn't any time travel"Cry me a river :rolleyes: . As someone already showed that how the quote has been taken out of context and what you perceived as the meaning of the quote reading out of context or intentionally is not what Damon Lindelof necessarily meant. And for a moment even if we assume that your interpretation of the quote is what DL wanted to say, still its a tv show and the interview was taken in the middle of season 1 and things like these happen all the time in tv shows for example in case of Heroes Mr Bennett's character was supposed to be a minor one in the early part of the season but now he has become a major part of the overall puzzle. In another hit series 'The 4400' they killed off a character because he had to go on a trip and brought him back from the dead and showed him the future and now he is a major part of the story whereas in Season 1he was supposed to be a part of a small story arc. For tv shows as lost which span over several seasons nothing is written in stone that is true for any long term large scale project. The producers are well within their rights to meddle with a story as they wish, only if people scrutinized George Bush's words half as much as they do with lost the world would be a better place.

It's possible that there really isn't any time travel. Des was unconsious and could've dreamed the whole thing. I also think that the producers are trying to throw people off track with their theories by saying that the survivors might not have been on the island as long as we think. Notice that Damon Lindelof flat-out said that there is no time travel. In the 2nd quote, he just said that the audience was making an assumption.

one problem most people having at wrapping their brains around this whole concept of "time travel", is that their opinions/viewpoints/answers are a result of each persons own personal knowledge of the concept, and how well their ability to theorize and philosophize is.

"physical"( i.e. 100% molecular and atomic) time travel is not the only method of viewing the time/space continum....

check this....
His findings have led to a new theory of incentive learning and to important clinical insight into the circumstances that lead to compulsive drug-seeking. A new chapter in comparative psychology has also opened through his work with Nicola Clayton on mental time travel in animals; they have presented the first clear evidence that animals can form episodic-like memory representations. He has won several awards for his research and, through his monograph, made a lasting contribution to the teaching of his discipline.


---Professor Anthony Dickinson - Mind mechanic

Actually, if you think about what the Hatch was built to contain, time travel is a perfectly reasonable bi-product of Desmond turning the fail-safe key.

Also the way they wrote the episode they can play it as he either did or did not go back to 1996.

At this point in the series I don't see why they should rule anything out if it moves the story along.

Just my .02

Actually, if you think about what the Hatch was built to contain, time travel is a perfectly reasonable bi-product of Desmond turning the fail-safe key.

Also the way they wrote the episode they can play it as he either did or did not go back to 1996.

At this point in the series I don't see why they should rule anything out if it moves the story along.

Just my .02


the turning of the key didnt create the magnetic discharge, it destroyed the hatch. the discharge has happend (?) times before. it brought the plane down.... etc.

i think desmond was in a specific spacial location, i.e. inside the circumference of the pulse, and that is why he "jumped" through time.

I didn't say that the key caused the magnetic field, it clearly shut it down. We saw the force of the implosion in that episode as well.

Like I said, if you think about what the Hatch was built to contain, then Desmond could have been sucked into a situation of bi-location as he was thrown around between the shockwaves of the blast and the super-gravity of the Hatch's secret.

Then again he may have just hit his head too.

this is from post #16. I think the concept of "mental" time travel is interesting, but that method would not explain the lack of damage on desmonds person due to a massive "hatch door flying to the beach" type explosion.


"physical"( i.e. 100% molecular and atomic) time travel is not the only method of viewing the time/space continum....

check this....

His findings have led to a new theory of incentive learning and to important clinical insight into the circumstances that lead to compulsive drug-seeking. A new chapter in comparative psychology has also opened through his work with Nicola Clayton on mental time travel in animals; they have presented the first clear evidence that animals can form episodic-like memory representations. He has won several awards for his research and, through his monograph, made a lasting contribution to the teaching of his discipline.
---Professor Anthony Dickinson - Mind mechanic

Here it is, folks...put waterskis on Des' feet and a leather jacket on his back. TPTB had said from the start of the season that this time would come. As angry as I want to be for all the people abandoning the show, I guess I can't blame them. This show is now downright bizarre. I frankly think it's TPTB winking at all the geeks and nerds who like this show not because it is the "cool" thing to like, but because they're geeks and nerds too. This episode will probably be viewed, at the end of the series, as the last time TPTB had to pretend they were making a "Giligan's Island/Survivor/Melrose Place" bastardization. Hooray for them, I can't wait to see where we go from here.

Cry me a river :rolleyes: . As someone already showed that how the quote has been taken out of context and what you perceived as the meaning of the quote reading out of context or intentionally is not what Damon Lindelof necessarily meant. And for a moment even if we assume that your interpretation of the quote is what DL wanted to say, still its a tv show and the interview was taken in the middle of season 1 and things like these happen all the time in tv shows for example in case of Heroes Mr Bennett's character was supposed to be a minor one in the early part of the season but now he has become a major part of the overall puzzle. In another hit series 'The 4400' they killed off a character because he had to go on a trip and brought him back from the dead and showed him the future and now he is a major part of the story whereas in Season 1he was supposed to be a part of a small story arc. For tv shows as lost which span over several seasons nothing is written in stone that is true for any long term large scale project. The producers are well within their rights to meddle with a story as they wish, only if people scrutinized George Bush's words half as much as they do with lost the world would be a better place.

TPTB are still continuing with the line that they know the end game, that they know what they've been doing since day 1. The only thing they have achieved consistently is to deceive millions of fans. You're explaining something to me that i already understand. What i don't understand is the apparent lack of respect from TPTB to their audience.

And what's Dubya got to do with this ? That the US voted him in - TWICE - is a mystery my namesake could never have unravelled.

TPTB are still continuing with the line that they know the end game, that they know what they've been doing since day 1. The only thing they have achieved consistently is to deceive millions of fans. You're explaining something to me that i already understand.

So, you understand that in the interview Damon was saying that At That Time there was no "time travel"? Then, how are they "deceiving" millions of fans? :confused:

Except this isn't the only time. They've done it again and again.

I've long since learned to throw whatever the two of them say in interviews into the circular file.

That doesn't mean I think what they are actually doing with the show is bad. They can have time travel or whatever, I don't care...I just don't trust what they say in interviews.

Except this isn't the only time. They've done it again and again.


Done what again and again... ? This wasn't a lie, some readers misinterpretted it. So, what are they doing over and over again?

I'd like to put the Limbo theory back on the table :grin:

LOL - Hi, Mingus. I've always been a fan of the Limbo/Purgatory theory. If TPTB can do time travel - or maybe even space travel, robots, cute kids, or dogs - then I would like my Purgatory back, please ... (Oh, wait - Lost already has cute kids and dogs...)

(FTR, I stole the latter two from a quote by JM Straczynski of Babylon 5 fame - he swore there would be no robots, cute kids, or dogs in B5 - and he kept his promise.)

as far as what TPTB say or dont say, changes can be made. since TPTB dont even know all the answers to the riddles they made up, its not strange for them to do an episode in one direction, then come to forums like this to get feedback, then make the next ep. going with a brand new concept.

its their story, but we're writing it.

As to the 'what' that they have done before they out and out said that Ana Lucia would NOT die.

They deflected the answer of Shannon dying with "It would be silly of us to kill off a woman'. Now most of us saw right through that one but a lot of people didn't.

They said Charlie and Claire would become a lot closer in Season 2. I suppose that might be true if you counted those few seconds in the very last episode...

There are other examples but I'm not going to be bothered to look them up but trust me..there are more.

Once again that doesn't mean I hate the show. I just don't take what TPTB say in interviews as gospel.

As to the 'what' that they have done before they out and out said that Ana Lucia would NOT die.

They deflected the answer of Shannon dying with "It would be silly of us to kill off a woman'. Now most of us saw right through that one but a lot of people didn't.

They said Charlie and Claire would become a lot closer in Season 2. I suppose that might be true if you counted those few seconds in the very last episode...

There are other examples but I'm not going to be bothered to look them up but trust me..there are more.

Once again that doesn't mean I hate the show. I just don't take what TPTB say in interviews as gospel.

Where did they say that about Ana Lucia? Charlie and Claire Did get closer in season 2... then they broke up.

I have tried to read every interview Darlton has done since they started doing them, and I've always taken their "straight answers" as gospel truth, and I haven't seen a "lie" yet.

To me, it's just like the triangle thing... some people take a quote like "Kate will make a definitive choice" and translate that into "the triangle is about end" or they take something like "none of the actors from 'Lost' will appear in 'TLE' to mean "'TLE' and 'Lost' are not connected in Any way" and then call them liars when their misinterpretation is shown to be incorrect.

So, you understand that in the interview Damon was saying that At That Time there was no "time travel"? Then, how are they "deceiving" millions of fans? :confused:

No, i already understand that they can't set everything in stone. I've said the same in numerous posts - actors leaving enforces changes.


I took the time travel quote as it was meant - that there was none. But yet again they've changed their mind yet still they're adamant they've known all along what route they've been taking.

I regard TPTB as incredibly arrogant. Some of the podcasts i listened to were disrespectful and sounded like a couple of geeks who thought they were talking to 4 year olds.

Personally, i think they've gone down a route and it has all backfired. They've introduced Desmond and increased his involvement in the show based on ratings / audience reaction ( standard practice for tv ). They've introduced the Tailies and basically killed them all off with many questions left unanswered. The show is in a mess so they have tried to reintroduce some of the sci-fi, mystical elements back into the show and chosen to go down the path of time travel. They think
a ) It will appease some of the fans
b ) it will help them fill in a few plotholes and tie up otherwise eternally loose ends.

Thing is, i don't think they're up to it. The characters are now so poorly written they aren't remotely like those in Season 1 and characters like Claire, Kate, Sayid etc are an ensemble ' deus ex machina ' . Even Jack - the main character ( especially this season ) seems to act on the whim of the script. Jack in Thailand demanding he be branded with that mark ?

And the recent hints at Watership Down - Juliette being branded for helping Kate and Sawyer escape ? Obvious. Is Jake Gyllenhaal making an appearance next week ?

I suggest viewers of Lost relax and enjoy the show. It is a TV programme, not a way of life.

I don't see anything wrong with representing time travel or whatever happened - it doesn't just have to satisfy the people on this thread. Like many people who watch it I like to discuss the theories and mythology, but I don't presume to say I could do better than the writers. Nor shall I hold them to their words at a sci-fi convention.

No, i already understand that they can't set everything in stone. I've said the same in numerous posts - actors leaving enforces changes.


I took the time travel quote as it was meant - that there was none. But yet again they've changed their mind...

No, see you're not understanding what I'm saying. They said there was no time travel "yet".That doesn't mean that they changed their minds later... that means that they hadn't introduced it as of the time of that interview. The entire quote when read shows that they are giving examples and saying that right now there's nothing on the show that doesn't have a possible rational explanation. Yet.

There's nothing there that says that such things won't be introduced later. That interview was TPTB knowing that they would eventually have to delve into "pseudo-science" basically saying "there's nothing on this show as of yet that doesn't have a rational explanation".

No, see you're not understanding what I'm saying. They said there was no time travel "yet".That doesn't mean that they changed their minds later... that means that they hadn't introduced it as of the time of that interview. The entire quote when read shows that they are giving examples and saying that right now there's nothing on the show that doesn't have a possible rational explanation. Yet.

There's nothing there that says that such things won't be introduced later. That interview was TPTB knowing that they would eventually have to delve into "pseudo-science" basically saying "there's nothing on this show as of yet that doesn't have a rational explanation".
They didn't mean " yet ", they were talking about Lost as a whole - what has been, what is and what will be. Just because he used present tense doesn't mean he wasn't ruling out the use of time travel in the future ( hmmm...)

They didn't mean " yet "

They said "yet".

No they did not. " There is no time travel ". No ' yet ' at all.

He says that they have not yet shown anything without a rational explanation. Introducing time travel, in my opinion, brings into question everything that they gave us prior to that episode. All the obvious explanations when they were implying it was much more mysterious and now time travel ? The emperor is changing clothes.

They have changed their mind. Fact.

He says that they have not yet shown anything without a rational explanation.

Exactly. Even you said "yet".

They never said that wouldn't change in the near future.

Are you Riverthebald ? You argue in the same way. " Yet " was used in a different sentence, in different context.

Are you Riverthebald ? You argue in the same way. " Yet " was used in a different sentence, in different context.

Am I what? :confused:

Damon was answering a question. He answered it in one long statement:


"I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."



What you're saying is that from the first sentence to the last, he jumped from talking about the Current time, to All time.

In fact, why would he even use the word "yet", if he didn't mean to venture Beyond "rational explanation" later? A flat-out "'Lost' will never venture into any territory like time travel or spaceships" would have sufficed.

Bottom line: Why not at least give TPTB the benefit of the doubt before publicly calling them "liars"? Especially since what they said can be interpretted in such a way that it's not a "lie".

No they did not. " There is no time travel ". No ' yet ' at all.

He says that they have not yet shown anything without a rational explanation. Introducing time travel, in my opinion, brings into question everything that they gave us prior to that episode. All the obvious explanations when they were implying it was much more mysterious and now time travel ? The emperor is changing clothes.

They have changed their mind. Fact.

Saying "I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet that has no rational explanation in the real world " does not mean --this show is 90210. Your just twisting what he said.

I mean for cryin out loud..there is a monster made out of smoke that reads minds, creates lost loved ones into solid matter, and can throw people against trees with its smoke hand

So he obviously meant something different than your implying.

About the Time Travel..I would have denied it too.. Your gonna see that Adam and Eve did TT..and he had to debunk it and throw the guessers off track so it wouldnt be spoiled for everyone.

If you cant understand the process..thats ok. But with a show this huge..with so many fans guessing--asking him plot points--misinformation has to be given--otherwise the whole plot could unravel on the Internet and ruin the show. But it seems that at that point in the show he didnt want anymore TT speculation until he revealed it himself.

But with a show this huge..with so many fans guessing--asking him plot points--misinformation has to be given--otherwise the whole plot could unravel on the Internet and ruin the show. I have to disaagree that "misinformation by podcast" is the way to go. What is the point exactly of giving podcasts that are supposed to give fans insiders' insight into the show -- not the answers per se but guidance about what trails are cold and which might be fruitful -- what is the point if they are going to mix in misinformation? People are supposed to tune in to enjoy hearing them talk?

Might as well sit down to an afternoon of Q&A with Benry and Patchy, and then analyze everything they said to death to discover the secrets of the island.

The entire point of the podcasts, far as I'm concerned, is they come from people who know where the show is going and are giving valid hints and valid statements that certain theories are dead ends. If the fans are too close to a juicy answer, just say "wait and see." Don't say -- "that's definitely not it."

I'm with OFG on this one. They should refrain from confirming or denying the likelihood of any theory instead of lying about it. That just pisses off fans.

Me, I'm fine with time travel, but it ticks me off that we guessed it way back and eliminated it from all theories because they implied there was no time travel. If they lied about that, what else have they lied about? Have our survivors time traveled to purgatory???

Saying "I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet that has no rational explanation in the real world " does not mean --this show is 90210. Your just twisting what he said.

I mean for cryin out loud..there is a monster made out of smoke that reads minds, creates lost loved ones into solid matter, and can throw people against trees with its smoke hand

So he obviously meant something different than your implying.

About the Time Travel..I would have denied it too.. Your gonna see that Adam and Eve did TT..and he had to debunk it and throw the guessers off track so it wouldnt be spoiled for everyone.

If you cant understand the process..thats ok. But with a show this huge..with so many fans guessing--asking him plot points--misinformation has to be given--otherwise the whole plot could unravel on the Internet and ruin the show. But it seems that at that point in the show he didnt want anymore TT speculation until he revealed it himself.


So you like a show with a smokey monster - that after almost 3 series we know next to nothing about - that can do anything, even kill characters at will and creators who are allowed to lie, misinform or deceive the audience ?

Had we already seen Smokey by the time he said ' nothing that couldn't be explained rationally ' ?

So you like a show with a smokey monster - that after almost 3 series we know next to nothing about - that can do anything, even kill characters at will and creators who are allowed to lie, misinform or deceive the audience ?


I like a show with a mysterious smoke monster, yes. And the creators haven't "lied" unless you take their quote out of context.


Had we already seen Smokey by the time he said ' nothing that couldn't be explained rationally ' ?

Nope. That interview was during season 1 (Jan. 24, 2005) and we didn't see Smokey until "The 23rd Psalm" almost a full year later (Jan. 11th 2006).

Nope. That interview was during season 1 (Jan. 24, 2005) and we didn't see Smokey until "The 23rd Psalm" almost a full year later (Jan. 11th 2006).

Actually, we first saw Smokey in Exodus, Part II (May 25, 2005). One thing that I think is important, is that the mechanical sound to Smokey was introduced in the Pilot, so it's not like it was originally going to be a dinosaur and then they changed their mind. The mechanical aspects of it were there all along.

Actually, we first saw Smokey in Exodus, Part II (May 25, 2005). One thing that I think is important, is that the mechanical sound to Smokey was introduced in the Pilot, so it's not like it was originally going to be a dinosaur and then they changed their mind. The mechanical aspects of it were there all along.

Exodus was when we saw Part of the monster and at that point, we didn't know that it was Entirely composed of smoke, so the black smoke could have been anything that emitted black smoke.

And you're correct about the "mechanical" sound... it's always sounded at least partly that way.

Actually, I have to come to the defense of Damon here. The quote was clearly in the context of a poorly-stated, informal use of the present tense to refer to the status of the show at the time he was speaking. He was not using the present tense to refer to anything beyond that.

Read the quote again, slowly, and carefully. When he says "There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel," he is clearly speaking in the context of the status of the show at the time he was speaking. He simply meant that they had not presented any spaceships, nor had they presented any time travel. This is not twisting words--it is clearly the correct interpretation of what he said, based on an everyday understanding of the informal ways we all talk when we're not writing things down. Any other interpretation of his words is understandable, but also misguided and frankly wrong.

You would probably be surprised if someone transcribed all the conversations you ever had and showed the paper to you. Much of it would no doubt be disappointingly incoherent.

My sympathies are with TPTB on this one--it has the potential to spiral into an out-of-control bad meme. If it hasn't already.

even though i do agree with the posters/fans who get angry when TPTB say/confirm or deny/lie about the concepts and happenings within the TV world of Lost, i believe 100% in the principal that allows the show to be altered/chopped up/re-arranged/re-written/etc. by the people that created it. YES, once TPTB brought Lost into our lives, they took on a HUGE responsibility, in that we as viewers were at their mercy when it came to conveyence of information. so, in a way, the angry fans are completly validated. however, TPTB created this, so they (and only they) have the authority to do with it what they want.

ok, im done.

ps. we should stick to our own ideas for clarity, because the amount of double-speak TPTB spew is reason enough not to rely on their words as any kind of support for any argument that comes up.

Actually, I have to come to the defense of Damon here. The quote was clearly in the context of a poorly-stated, informal use of the present tense to refer to the status of the show at the time he was speaking. He was not using the present tense to refer to anything beyond that.

Read the quote again, slowly, and carefully. When he says "There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel," he is clearly speaking in the context of the status of the show at the time he was speaking. He simply meant that they had not presented any spaceships, nor had they presented any time travel. This is not twisting words--it is clearly the correct interpretation of what he said, based on an everyday understanding of the informal ways we all talk when we're not writing things down. Any other interpretation of his words is understandable, but also misguided and frankly wrong.

You would probably be surprised if someone transcribed all the conversations you ever had and showed the paper to you. Much of it would no doubt be disappointingly incoherent.


My sympathies are with TPTB on this one--it has the potential to spiral into an out-of-control bad meme. If it hasn't already.

Well said, 109. My impression is that people who now dislike the show or who have lost faith in the show use quotes like this by TPTB to fuel their opinions. People that still enjoy the show aren't bothered by any (apparent) inconsistencies in statements by TPTB. They don't see the value or merit in grabbing two quotes from different periods of time and different contexts and pitting them against each other.

Personally, I grant TPTB the right to change the course of the show as they see fit or as the interactions between new and old characters and ideas warrants. Adjusting the course doesn't, by defintition, mean they are only "making it up as they go" or that they never had a plan. I want a LOST that has a plan, but is also continually being created.

Have you guys given a listen to the newest Darlton interview yet?they spill more beans...and they even use the phrase ''this is Lost.we can get away with almost anything''

i really didnt wanna listen to something like this...:frown:

link to interview: http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/...lindelof_and_c (http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/tt070307damon_lindelof_and_c)

There's an article about Ugly Betty in a recent Entertainment Weekly. It talks about how the writers sort of have no idea what they are doing - they themselves are saying this. They mention certain subplots that were dropped and things of that nature. And they mention that they basically need to get on the ball and figure out what the show is going to be about.

I can respect that. It might not be the best way to go about making a TV show, but so far it's working pretty nicely, and most importantly, they're being honest. My problem with "TPTB" of Lost is that, from Day 1, they have been vehemently denying that they are making things up as they go along. If they didn't make hard statements like this, they would get in less "trouble" with their fans, but for some reason, they refuse to concede any point... until something actually shows up in canon, and then they backtrack.

I would respect "No comment" and "We don't know what anything is" more than what they insist on feeding us.

Actually, I have to come to the defense of Damon here. The quote was clearly in the context of a poorly-stated, informal use of the present tense to refer to the status of the show at the time he was speaking. He was not using the present tense to refer to anything beyond that.

Read the quote again, slowly, and carefully. When he says "There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel," he is clearly speaking in the context of the status of the show at the time he was speaking. He simply meant that they had not presented any spaceships, nor had they presented any time travel. This is not twisting words--it is clearly the correct interpretation of what he said, based on an everyday understanding of the informal ways we all talk when we're not writing things down. Any other interpretation of his words is understandable, but also misguided and frankly wrong.

You would probably be surprised if someone transcribed all the conversations you ever had and showed the paper to you. Much of it would no doubt be disappointingly incoherent.

My sympathies are with TPTB on this one--it has the potential to spiral into an out-of-control bad meme. If it hasn't already.
That's all fine and dandy, but that quote is literally years old, and they've had more than adequate time to set the record straight.

That's all fine and dandy, but that quote is literally years old, and they've had more than adequate time to set the record straight.

I seriously doubt they even remember that interview considering how many they've done.

That's all fine and dandy, but that quote is literally years old, and they've had more than adequate time to set the record straight.
Sure, I agree, but the problem is if they went out and said "That thing about time travel--we only meant it in a certain context" then it's like OHHHH OK I GET IT THERE'S TIME TRAVEL. So they were stuck.

I like a show with a mysterious smoke monster, yes. And the creators haven't "lied" unless you take their quote out of context.

(Jan. 11th 2006).

If they knew what they were doing, knew exactly where the show was heading - as they have so often stated - and that eventually someone like Desmond would time travel then they lied.
Or they changed their minds - as they have done many times - and decided to go down that route.
The introduction of time travel ( and similar ) means that they can stretch Lost even further and fill in all the previous plot holes if they so wish.

Personally, i think they didn't know exactly where they were going, decided the show needed help and had Desmond time travel. Desmond's character has already been ' thickened ' out as i doubt he was supposed to be such a major character. His storylines in Season 2 changed almost completely between the first few episodes and the finale.

And as someone has already posted the quote that they can do almost anything on Lost, it's the arrogance i detest, almost as much as the attitude of some fans who think that because someone doesn't like the show, they don't understand it or the writers.

If they knew what they were doing, knew exactly where the show was heading - as they have so often stated - and that eventually someone like Desmond would time travel then they lied.


Again, only if you choose to take their words out of context. But. that's what you're choosing to do so the "conversation" is at a standstill and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

That's the thing. i don't think i am taking them out of context. When producers, writers talk about their show, they talk about is as a whole, not just where they are at that present time.
"I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."
He doesn't mean that weeks episode didn't feature spaceships and time travel, he means that Lost, as a whole project, does not feature time travel. They hint at the mysterious but everything has an explanation.

What they have done is either lied about that or had a huge change of direction and yet are remaining adamant they have known all along exactly where they were going with Lost. As i said before, the introduction of new characters, the killng-off of old ones etc means that they can't possibly be on the same path. Storylines have become twisted but because so many of them have links, TPTB have problems.

And if Desmond has travelled in time then they aren't handling it very well. How can Desmond keep saving Charlie and then see subsequent incidents without travelling in time again ? Or is he now just having visions ?

Time travel and smokey are TPTB's best friends. " we can get away with anything ".

That's the thing. i don't think i am taking them out of context.

I don't see how.

"I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within.

Sentence 1, is very clearly talking about what's on the show in the Present time. Obviously saying that up until That Moment, everything had a rational explanation.

"We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be."

He's expounding on what he just said... no, we haven't shown anything Yet with no rational explanation, BUT we've hinted at some things.

But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."

So now, at the end of the quote, after spending the Entire first half talking about the Present time, they switch gears and are speaking about the show as a whole now? With no provocation whatsoever? And in the same paragraph? To believe that requires:
1. Lindelof is scatterbrained and jumps topics at random, and
2. Whomever wrote the article has no clue when to make a new paragraph, and
3. Whomever editted it is no more enlightened about paragraphs than the writer.

This is the kinda thing that happens when a reader takes one sentence from an entire quote instead of considering the Entire quote.

So you like a show with a smokey monster - that after almost 3 series we know next to nothing about - that can do anything, even kill characters at will and creators who are allowed to lie, misinform or deceive the audience ?

Had we already seen Smokey by the time he said ' nothing that couldn't be explained rationally ' ?

You have a hard time comprehending what people write. Not only did you misunderstand Them..you misunderstood me.

and quite frankly..I dont have time to explain everything to you. I must admit though-- I fail to comprehend why you watch the show or waste time posting about it. There are better things to do with your time than watch(and type) about something you dont like

TPTB have pretty clearly lied (or changed their minds, or probably both) about the direction of the show, IMO. I don't have a major problem with that--it makes LOST less predictable and more fun.

A problem, it seems to me, is that they ALSO use their interviews to clarify things they didn't make clear onscreen. ("There are twins on the boat! They're important!"--or maybe not.)

Maybe they should just stop doing interviews and podcasts? Or do we still want to hear what they have to tell us?

Okay... so if TPTB back a long time ago when they said that there wasn't going to be time travel, actually said that they'll be time travel, wouldn't that be a major spoiler? TPTB like to keep things secret, they like to surprise. And by being truthful, that surprise would be ruined. What's the point, then, of sending Desmond back in time if the fans know it's going to happen and aren't surprised by it?

I think they know what they are doing. I could be wrong, but I try to keep faith in TPTB.

You have a hard time comprehending what people write. Not only did you misunderstand Them..you misunderstood me.

and quite frankly..I dont have time to explain everything to you. I must admit though-- I fail to comprehend why you watch the show or waste time posting about it. There are better things to do with your time than watch(and type) about something you dont like

Ah yes. What a wonderful place the world would be if people wrote only about what they liked, what was good.

Bunny rabbits, white picket fences, no crime. To sleep per chance to dream.

Haha, there hasn't been any time travel yet. If you're talking about FBYE, you're wrong.
I personally believe Desmond was warned by the mystical island in the form of the lady in his flashbacks to just give up trying to change fate. To make the point that the universe will course correct anyway, so why bother? The island told him this so he wouldn't disrupt the fate and path of the characters already taking place.

Even if that wasn't it, which is likely, it would just be present Desmond altering the Desmond of every time so flashes of his life can always be seen. He never actually traveled. The flashbacks were regular flashbacks but he was confused by these flashes of things that will happen. Just as he is now...:drowsy:

Haha, there hasn't been any time travel yet. If you're talking about FBYE, you're wrong.
I personally believe Desmond was warned by the mystical island in the form of the lady in his flashbacks to just give up trying to change fate. To make the point that the universe will course correct anyway, so why bother? The island told him this so he wouldn't disrupt the fate and path of the characters already taking place.

FBYI was clearly timetravel, TPTB have also acknowledged it as such, which makes threads like these arise. But thanks for your input anyway ;)

He doesn't mean that weeks episode didn't feature spaceships and time travel, he means that Lost, as a whole project, does not feature time travel. They hint at the mysterious but everything has an explanation.
No, he meant that so far as the viewer could tell, there were no spaceships or time travel. I don't think you're way off-base here--it is definitely ambiguous, and can be read either way. But once you see that he's describing the way things seem to be, rather than the way they actually are, you realize what he was most likely saying.

I'm sure they've changed direction in some ways, maybe even drastically--but I think it's totally unfair to accuse (as some do, I mean, not necessarily yourself!) Damon of lying, based on this talk. I agree it was vague. Though it was probably deliberately vague...

FBYI was clearly timetravel, TPTB have also acknowledged it as such, which makes threads like these arise. But thanks for your input anyway ;) No, they confirmed that it really happened and was not a dream.

It's weird how much people want to hate the show. People are looking for ways to jump off the bandwagon. (Quote was taken out of context, like most things on the internet.)

But hey, there's more DHARMA food for the rest of us.

Good post. Also, i think it's a last ditch attempt to appease the sci-fi fans, those people who were really interested in the mythological aspect of the show...people who have walked away because Lost turned into a messy soap opera.
Why do shows like this resort to love when trying to increase the character side ? Why the trodden down path of " 3's a crowd " ? Instead of improving and developing interesting characters we already have, they introduce new ones ?

Personally, i was interested in the myths and the characters. Both elements have now been melted down and sold off.

Really is sad what has happened to this program.

just because you don't like the "love" part of the show doesn't mean other people don't. the show is a drama, albeit a drama wrapped up in some kind of sci-fi weirdness, it's still a drama, and people falling in love in all kinds of situations is what people do, and makes for good story telling. imho, it's people who are devoid of any kind of sentiment that don't appreciate real human emotion story-telling. i mean, take your basic action flick, like die-hard. it still had a "love" story line. it didn't take away from the overall story, it just showed a more human character than just some ***-kicking machine.
i think we should just enjoy the ride while it lasts because we don't know what's going to happen, and i think we will all be pleased when the ride is over.

that's my 2 cents worth
100%
Cry me a river :rolleyes: . As someone already showed that how the quote has been taken out of context and what you perceived as the meaning of the quote reading out of context or intentionally is not what Damon Lindelof necessarily meant. And for a moment even if we assume that your interpretation of the quote is what DL wanted to say, still its a tv show and the interview was taken in the middle of season 1 and things like these happen all the time in tv shows for example in case of Heroes Mr Bennett's character was supposed to be a minor one in the early part of the season but now he has become a major part of the overall puzzle. In another hit series 'The 4400' they killed off a character because he had to go on a trip and brought him back from the dead and showed him the future and now he is a major part of the story whereas in Season 1he was supposed to be a part of a small story arc. For tv shows as lost which span over several seasons nothing is written in stone that is true for any long term large scale project. The producers are well within their rights to meddle with a story as they wish, only if people scrutinized George Bush's words half as much as they do with lost the world would be a better place.


a-men brotha!
100%
That's the thing. i don't think i am taking them out of context. When producers, writers talk about their show, they talk about is as a whole, not just where they are at that present time.

He doesn't mean that weeks episode didn't feature spaceships and time travel, he means that Lost, as a whole project, does not feature time travel. They hint at the mysterious but everything has an explanation.

What they have done is either lied about that or had a huge change of direction and yet are remaining adamant they have known all along exactly where they were going with Lost. As i said before, the introduction of new characters, the killng-off of old ones etc means that they can't possibly be on the same path. Storylines have become twisted but because so many of them have links, TPTB have problems.

And if Desmond has travelled in time then they aren't handling it very well. How can Desmond keep saving Charlie and then see subsequent incidents without travelling in time again ? Or is he now just having visions ?

Time travel and smokey are TPTB's best friends. " we can get away with anything ".



omg. it's a TV show. if you want hard, factual, exactly plausable stories, then you should stick to masterpiece theater. this is a show produced by disney. talking animals, singing tea kettles...ring a bell?
when i read all these threads breaking down every piece of minutae(sp) i am reminded of a scene from the film "galaxy quest" in which a very tired tim allen who was a capt. kirk type of tv star is asked how something from this ep happened when this other thing from this other ep happened first, he goes off "there is no G.D'd flux!(or somethinglike that) we are all such nerds that we have nothing better to do than break down , or build up, a tv show. i like lost. period. i don't have to over analyze it or explain in great detail why i didn't like the look on kates face or how charlie doesn't mimick the guitar very well, or what ever. i just watch it, and i like the story, and hope it lasts for a while and comes to some kind of reasonable conclusion, and whether TPTB (i'm really sick of that acronym) know EXACTLY where the show is heading or not...WHO CARES? watch it, or don't

i think i'm done w/this forum, or at leas this thread, which is my right, just as it's your right to agree or disagree with me

L8R

A smarter man than me once said "Buy the ticket. Take the ride". I would rather the haters kept watching the show so it doesn't get cancelled, but I'd rather not hear their lame assertions that the writers don't know what they're doing. I don't care what 'evidence' they produce to prove that they're right.

It's possible that time-travel wasn't originally meant to happen in the show, but that doesn't mean that including it now is blasphemy.

Obviously we don't have all the info on how time works on the island, but maybe at the time, Damon was thinking "well, this is an island where time passes differently to the rest of the world", or "this island's on a time loop" or something. If this difference is due to the magnetic anomoly, then when they decided to have Desmond turn the key right in the heart of the magnetic station, perhaps they figured "well if he was right in the middle of it, then he WOULD be thrown back in time because [XYZ pseudo-scientific reason], and that makes sense within the mythology of our show."

Given the choice between telling an intriguing story that would satisfy a large percentage of their fans and hemming in their imaginations because of a quote they gave in an interview years ago, they'd probably go for the option of greater storytelling. They said in the podcast that this was a flashback device they'd never use again on the show, so it seems unlikely that Desmond's going to be popping back and forth again any time soon.

Personally, I'm reserving judgement until I've seen the whole story, complete with answers.

Good post. Also, i think it's a last ditch attempt to appease the sci-fi fans, those people who were really interested in the mythological aspect of the show...people who have walked away because Lost turned into a messy soap opera.
Why do shows like this resort to love when trying to increase the character side ? Why the trodden down path of " 3's a crowd " ? Instead of improving and developing interesting characters we already have, they introduce new ones ?

Personally, i was interested in the myths and the characters. Both elements have now been melted down and sold off.

Really is sad what has happened to this program.Too true. I really liked it when it first came on because it was different, it had that spark of "almost-fantasy-but-not-quite." Now, not so much. If I want pure fantasy, I can watch something else. Besides that, the recent episode with the soap-opera couple, forgetting their names, was much too Stephan King-ish for my tastes.