It was very weird tosee in one episode the two things being combined...We never heard about branding or even saw that coming with our journey with the others...They Brand people!!! GRRRR

Than to add to our thinking..we have tattoos in this show....

There is a spiritual relationship with both of these body art forms....any ideas???? Going to google again...
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ETA:::::

From th4e Miami Ink web site....Pretty interesting...

The history of tattoos


Though tattoos may seem like a modern phenomenon they have been around for a long time, and are probably the earliest form of body art dating back to well before the time of Christ.

The first real record of tattooing comes from ancient Egypt where wall paintings show images of people bearing tattoos.

The tattoos that started appearing in Egypt at the time of the construction of the pyramids were made by puncturing the skin with a needle, without sterilisation, or gloves. Then the fashion travelled to Crete, Greece, Persia and Arabia on to China.

Since then, tattoos have appeared throughout history as pagan decoration, or in various rituals. They have been used as body art, as a way of communicating knowledge from generation to generation, as a stamp of authority and as part of religious or coming of age ceremonies.

Greek spies communicated through their tattoos, which served to identify spies and their rank.

Romans used tattoos to brand criminals and slaves.

The Japanese also marked their convicts. A single line on the forehead represented a first-time offender. Two lines marked a repeat offender, and three lines spelled "dog."

The Ainu tribes of Asia used tattoos to differentiate social classes and their respective status, especially in the case of married women.

In Burma, tattoos were used to reaffirm religious and spiritual beliefs.

In New Zealand, the Maori people had an elaborate facial tattoo known as Moko, which served to graphically represent the value and rank of warriors.

Mexicans and Peruvians may have held the art of tattoo as a ritual in Mayan, Incan and Aztec cultures.

In the British Isles, tattooing was part of a ceremony. Germans, Saxons and Danes used to tattoo themselves with their family symbols. Tattoos faded off the scene for 400 years, between 1200 and 1600.

When the British explorers started returning from their voyages with completely tattooed natives, in the late 1600s and 1700s, the Polynesian tattoos caused a sensation in London.

In 1891, Samuel O'Reilly patented the first electric tattooing machine. It was formed by a bar that held several needles, a tube that held the bar, and a small gyrating drum.

Towards the end of the 1800s into the first decades of the 20th century, characters covered in tattoos were considered fairground attractions and earned a living from their 'freakish' appearance.

On December 21, 1970, Time magazine ran an article looking at the boom in tattooing at that time, which stated, "Now, after one or two decades of silence, tattoos are experiencing a rebirth and have become the symbol of the counter-culture."

Ironically, for a practice that for a large part of its history has had negative social connotations, three decades after that article was published, tattoos no longer symbolize the counter-culture, but have become part of the establishment.

here is a link about thai tattooing.. apparently there are some pretty strict rules.

http://tattoos.com/articles/mccabe/wong/index2.htm

"They are told to follow the law exactly. Young men sit on the floor of a studio waiting their turn and are told to read the rules and seriously consider how the tattoo will change their lives."

"Traditional Thai tattooing emphasizes the basic power of the tattoo process and how it can reorient a person’s sense of self and their concept of the world."

maybe the group of men beat jack because he has so many inner struggles and was not deserving of the tattoo.

i wish i could be more helpful, i'll keep looking.....

that in and of itself is a good find...I will also look more... but now I have to get to sleep...I hate this new time slot!!! Keeps me off the lage due to sleep needs!!

Great thread! :thumbsup:

Hi guys

If you remember "Portland" one of the themes was whether Juliet was a Leader. The Flaskback showed her a mess and stating, "Im not a Leader". The on the Island she is shown as taking action and showing her Leadership skills

What did the girl tell Jack he was? A Leader..a great man

As with any Lost theme..they have great depth. They tied in Juilet with Jack's flashback as both being Leaders. Thats the depth of Juilets mark. Jack confirms this when he tells her, in the scene when her mark is revealed, that They must Join forces..Together, he said

BUT, as I have said before at the start of this season, Jack and Juilet become Leaders of the Island. This is more obvious to me than ever because they are playing them up as being the only 2 who have a Pass OFF the Island.

If your looking for what the significance of Juilets mark is to the Others..it doesnt matter--as Jack explained in the end of the epi.

His Tattoo did not reveal the true significance of what the Words meant(as the girl explained..He was a leader). They were tying that in with what Juilets mark truly meant(which was obviously not what the others intended it to mean for her.)

VERY good connection.

Jack got branded as a leader, and now Juliette has been branded.

If you remember "Portland" one of the themes was whether Juliet was a Leader. The Flaskback showed her a mess and stating, "Im not a Leader". The on the Island she is shown as taking action and showing her Leadership skills

What did the girl tell Jack he was? A Leader..a great man

As with any Lost theme..they have great depth. They tied in Juilet with Jack's flashback as both being Leaders. Thats the depth of Juilets mark. Jack confirms this when he tells her, in the scene when her mark is revealed, that They must Join forces..Together, he said

BUT, as I have said before at the start of this season, Jack and Juilet become Leaders of the Island. This is more obvious to me than ever because they are playing them up as being the only 2 who have a Pass OFF the Island.

..another connection was that Isabel ( aka the "sheriff") told Jack that his tattoo said: "You walk among us, but is not one of us". The statement can now be applied to Jack, and Juliet. Both Jack and Juliet now walk,and live among the others, but they are not one of them.

Do you know what symbol was branded on Juliet's back,and what do it stand for/means?:confused:

Anyone have a screen cap of Juliet's mark? I feel like we've seen something like it before, but my husband says we haven't...

Adam and Eve?

Ive been pondering this, and both Juliet and Jack took a "mark" on their bodies. Considering the ying/yang scenerio, there is a similar biblical scenerio, that being the "mark". One of good and the other evil, or one of higher consciousness and the other egoic. Given the nature of LOST and the duality or twins within each man this may have something to do with it. Especially since they were both judged by their marks. Jack being beat up and thrown out of the country, and Juliet being thrown out of their little "other" group.
Something else I was considering about Juliets mark, is that it is a symbol of an X with a line going through it. This struck me because the X genetically represents the female or mother side of the bloodline. The X always carries down the line, the y can end. So because she murdered they considered her damanged blood. Obviously they are aware our genetics change due to our mistakes, amongst other things. The placement of her mark was on the spine nearer the base. The sacrum at the base of the spine is named that from the word sacred signifying the riseing or the Kundalini or spirit energy. The line through the X branding could signify the defiling of the X of her blood and spiritual darkness or evil. Therefore no longer useful to the others for creating the purified race as her X would carry down to her children.
I can't quite remember, but when Jack, Sawyer, and Kate were captured, didn't they take blood samples? At the time the thought ran through my mind that they were looking for specific genetic markers? Anyway, I considered Juliet was marked because her blood was now marked.

I think this is all a big scam to get Jack to fall for Juliette. And then to get them to have a baby on the island.

..another connection was that Isabel ( aka the "sheriff") told Jack that his tattoo said: "You walk among us, but is not one of us". The statement can now be applied to Jack, and Juliet. Both Jack and Juliet now walk,and live among the others, but they are not one of them.

Do you know what symbol was branded on Juliet's back,and what do it stand for/means?:confused:

Jacks tatoo said "You walk amongst us, that you are not one of us", which is different as "You walk amongst us, but you're not one of us"
The first (which it what the sheriff actually said) means that he is amongst "us" but not acting like he is one of "us". The second means that he is amongst "us" but just isn't one of "us".
Big difference between acting and being.

By the way, the mark on Juliet is very similar to the Rood Inverse (reversed cross) used in the video game Vagrant Story.

Here's a link to a picture of it: http://www.rpgdreamer.com/wall/vs/martin-1-2.jpg

I definitely think that it is too convenient that Ben let Sawyer and Kate go. Because now the closest person to Jack is Jules. I think that she was assigned to Jack from the beginning. I just don't trust her.

I definitely think that it is too convenient that Ben let Sawyer and Kate go. Because now the closest person to Jack is Jules. I think that she was assigned to Jack from the beginning. I just don't trust her.


I'm totally with you on this one, I think the same and I have from the beginning. I liked the suggestion earlier in this thread (sorry that I can't remember who made it!) that it's all a big plan to get them to have a baby!

I just think there is something going on at a deeper level, and I really don't trust Juliette! Kate & Sawyer was far too convenient, you're right iconsavvvy.

Gem x

I think that Jack's tattoo experience and Juliette's branding experience were ying/yang.

Jack: his tattoo told him who he was at great cost to himself. It was given to him by one who knows him and in that showed him his destiny

Juliette: she was branded to show her who she was and put her in her place, similar to the Scarlet Letter - given to those who went against the community and commited the great sin of loving outside of the rules.

Jacks was for his destiny - Juliette's was to try and stop hers.

The Inuit people also use facial tattoos.

I liked toward the end when Jack said to Isabel that "that's what they say but that's not what they mean" referring to the translation of his Thai tattoos.

How many threads on the same thing are we going to start, makes it hard to keep up and have a flow of thoughts, IMO.

isnt that true...I started this thread last night as a first to discuss this and than others followed suit with new ones....

maybe they can be merged or we will do the bunny8 hop all day long.

Great stuff! I cannot get my head around last nights episode. Very zig zaggy! I agree the 10 time frame is too much! I have to decompress for a while and I am up way too late!

I think this is all a big scam to get Jack to fall for Juliette. And then to get them to have a baby on the island.


That was playing in the back of my mind, too - just another elaborate set up to get Jack to trust Juliet and fall for her. I just do not trust her character at all. It seemed like a social experiment to see just how far Jack would go in protecting Juliet.

Someone posted this on my yahoo group - the brand looks exactly like this symbol if it were upside down: http://news.scientology.org/img/main_hda.jpg

Hi guys

If you remember "Portland" one of the themes was whether Juliet was a Leader. The Flaskback showed her a mess and stating, "Im not a Leader". The on the Island she is shown as taking action and showing her Leadership skills

What did the girl tell Jack he was? A Leader..a great man

As with any Lost theme..they have great depth. They tied in Juilet with Jack's flashback as both being Leaders. Thats the depth of Juilets mark. Jack confirms this when he tells her, in the scene when her mark is revealed, that They must Join forces..Together, he said

BUT, as I have said before at the start of this season, Jack and Juilet become Leaders of the Island. This is more obvious to me than ever because they are playing them up as being the only 2 who have a Pass OFF the Island.

If your looking for what the significance of Juilets mark is to the Others..it doesnt matter--as Jack explained in the end of the epi.

His Tattoo did not reveal the true significance of what the Words meant(as the girl explained..He was a leader). They were tying that in with what Juilets mark truly meant(which was obviously not what the others intended it to mean for her.)


I must have been watching an alternate version of this episode...Because it seemed to me that Juliet is anything but a leader. Changed her mind about killing Ben, couldn't defend herself in court (even though it was pretty clear she could have gone for the self-defense argument, since Pickett turned his gun on her as she shot at him), she seemed completely hopeless as to getting out of this ("How are we going to do that?" line to Jack)...

Juliet is getting off the island only because of Jack--who did TWO things to get her off the island. First, got Ben to bleed nearly to death, which forced Ben to offer Juliet the off-island trip in exchange for her getting the escapees back; then offered his bedside manner to Ben until Ben recovers from the infection.

Someone posted this on my yahoo group - the brand looks exactly like this symbol if it were upside down: http://news.scientology.org/img/main_hda.jpg

Yeah, the Scientology cross. They're talking about this over at The TailSection too. An inverted cross is related to St. Peter's crucifixion. I'm not terribly familiar with either, but the two crosses are strikingly familiar. Pretty cool.

I'm sure though, that there exist many symbols with this pattern, all with what I'm sure we'll learn have fascinating possible connections to what may be going on on the island.

..another connection was that Isabel ( aka the "sheriff") told Jack that his tattoo said: "You walk among us, but is not one of us". The statement can now be applied to Jack, and Juliet. Both Jack and Juliet now walk,and live among the others, but they are not one of them.

I think this is much more spot on for the interpretation of both of them having a mark. They are both not true members of the Others organization, yet they are among them for now.
Juliet is a piss poor leader for she gets things done by secret plots and double-plays.

Ooh, and I just remembered that William Mapother, who plays Ethan, is cousins with Tom Cruise - Scientologist extraordinaire! Tom Cruise is Jacob!!

"A leader...a good man." It also links in with Desmond, when Penny told him he was 'good man/person'.

It's all about opposites.

If this is a ploy to get Jack and Juliette to procreate that would explain the other bandage she had on her stomach in the same spot that her sister had...Is she giving herself hormone injections???

I must have been watching an alternate version of this episode...Because it seemed to me that Juliet is anything but a leader..


Hey DMC

Watch it again--and the Portland episode too--because thats the parallel they were drawing--that was the depth of the theme running through the epi. Of course they cast doubt on whether juilet is a leader--that was the point. They did the same thing with jack..he doesnt want to be a leader .

Also..I think people are stating the obvious when they say what the tatto SAYS. We know what it says and that is obviously in relation to both Jack and Now Juilet being outsiders--in limbo of which side they are really on.

But the *meaning of the Tatto was that of a leader. Jack also said that--he knows what it *Says..but he said that isnt what it really meant. That was the parallel. Isabelle marked juilet with the same mark as Jack--she walks among us..but is not one of us. But thats not the true meaning of the mark.

The other thing I dont think anyone noticed is the that Juilets mark was a STAR

Whenever Lost say a word more than once it has some depth in the story.

Isabelle said the 5 stars tatto was cute. Karl mentioned he the Stars Alex sees. Saywer said you name your girl after stars. The mark looks like a star. In the end Jack and Juilet look at the same stars Karl and Alex are looking at.

Another thing said twice was the Tattoo said he's "not one of us" and Ben told Jack "Juliet IS one of us".

I am very impressed with the depth of the themes in the writing and think much of is actually unnoticed.

There were other parallels. Jacks flashback Island was a model of the real island. He went to that island to find out who he was. There just happened to be a girl there that SEES who people really are. He gets marked, his butt kicked, and is banished-----this is a Parallels of Juilets story

I would say--always watch an epi twice. Its very hard to see all the themes on first watch.

PS..another visual parallel was the boat scene after jack got beat up in the FB(the islanders walking toward the boat) and then the ending scene when the others boarded the boats. Visually they looked very similiar

John those were excellent points .... I love the island parallels that you mentioned

My friend got drunk in San Francisco one time and decided he wanted a giant Virgin Mary tatoo on his neck. He went into a parlor and asked for it. The guy asked to see what other work he had done and my friend had none. The tatoo artist laughed my friend out of the shop.

Yeah, that kind of has nothing to do with anything, but I thought it was kind of funny. I was watching the episode and thinking "what if my buddy did the same thing as Jack and insisted the guy do it?"

I enjoyed this thread and even Kitsume's joke, but where'd the poll go?

I never made a poll here and I dont know where that came from.....

Did you all catch the Dharma logo on the podium in the room where Juliet's sentanceing was going down?


I have to side with "this is still one HUGE con inside of another bigger con which is just peak into a world based on cons"

Well MVM, your thread's been Branded/Marked with the poll symbol!!