...and its not Sawyer

So whats up with Isabelle? She fills a role as chief justice or something apparently. The only famous Isabelle I could find of consequence was Queen Isabella who sponsored Columbus' journey to the New World and helped unite Spain. Though i much prefer this line of deductive reasoning. Isabelle traces back to the root Elizabeth. Elizabeth was the holy virgin Mary's cousin who gave birth to John the Baptist. Another miracle birth to go with Rachel's from NIP

She was another creepy women to go along with the ring lady. I guess we now know that Ben can overrule all the people who were present at the Hydra, and it does seem like Jacob is more of a mythological person for the others.

So, Isabel is the investigator, detective, and judge for The Others? Ben is clearly in charge, but she's fascinating.

I have never been scared as much as I have by this woman. She is creepier than creepy.

I agree...very interesting character.... i was wondering - Isabel seems like she sticks to a strict moral code....kind of like the smoke monster. I get the weirdest feeling that she is somehow in control of Smokey... we know it (the monster) can essentially scan peoples thoughts and minds like it did with Eko. It seems like Isabel was able to tell that Jack was lying.... anyone else see those similarities and possible clues, or is it just me?

I agree...very interesting character.... i was wondering - Isabel seems like she sticks to a strict moral code....kind of like the smoke monster. I get the weirdest feeling that she is somehow in control of Smokey... we know it (the monster) can essentially scan peoples thoughts and minds like it did with Eko. It seems like Isabel was able to tell that Jack was lying.... anyone else see those similarities and possible clues, or is it just me?

I'm guessing Isabel already knew the truth. Probably got ahold of that videotape Juliet used.

I agree...very interesting character.... i was wondering - Isabel seems like she sticks to a strict moral code....kind of like the smoke monster. I get the weirdest feeling that she is somehow in control of Smokey... we know it (the monster) can essentially scan peoples thoughts and minds like it did with Eko. It seems like Isabel was able to tell that Jack was lying.... anyone else see those similarities and possible clues, or is it just me?


I did notice that she was either good at interrogating people or a bit psychic. This island has a bit of an effect on people. Remember Walt and now we are seeing this with Desmond.
I have seen this actress before. I could not find the guest stars listing on line so I rewound the tape. I figured that she played Christina Crawford in Mommie Dearest. Yes I was right but more recently this actress was seen on Prison Break.

I cannot figure out where I have seen this actress before.

The movie "The Others." This is the same woman as we saw in Des' flashback/forward/whatever last week, right? If so, I think this further strengthens my theory that Des was dreaming and pieces of his experiences on the island manifested into the dream.

The movie "The Others." This is the same woman as we saw in Des' flashback/forward/whatever last week, right? If so, I think this further strengthens my theory that Des was dreaming and pieces of his experiences on the island manifested into the dream.

No its not the same person- different acctresses.

I personally don't like Isabel. She a cookie cutter bad guy. So far. .

The movie "The Others." This is the same woman as we saw in Des' flashback/forward/whatever last week, right? If so, I think this further strengthens my theory that Des was dreaming and pieces of his experiences on the island manifested into the dream.
It seems odd to me that so many people think they're the same--I saw this posted a lot in last week's episode thread regarding the Stranger promos. Methinks we're speculating too much and reaching a bit too far...

The jeweler, Ms Hawkings, is played by Fionnula Flanagan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001217/), age 65 (I thought she was older...)

Isabel is played by Diana Scarwid (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0769311/), age 51.

Personally, I didn't detect the slightest resemblance...

I posted something like this on the Jack's tattoo thread, but I think it's also relevant here.

ISABELLE CAN READ CHINESE! She read in Cantonese in the episode. "He walks among us, but is not one of us." Which leads me to think that she has a a deeper comprehension of the language cause I don't think that's the literal translation of Jack's tattoo.

She's creepy.

When I saw Isabel, i hollered, "I AM NOT ONE OF YOUR FANS!!!!"
she played christina crawford in mommy dearest.

I posted something like this on the Jack's tattoo thread, but I think it's also relevant here.

ISABELLE CAN READ CHINESE! She read in Cantonese in the episode. "He walks among us, but is not one of us." Which leads me to think that she has a a deeper comprehension of the language cause I don't think that's the literal translation of Jack's tattoo.
By literal, do you mean the real-world translation of the Chinese? I recall that the meaning assigned to the tattoos was decided by the writers, and is not necessarily what is actually written on Matthew Fox's arm (since those are his real-life tattoos.)

I doubt we'd learn much if we could literally translate the language, as it isn't what it really says "literally" within the show, if that makes sense.

i did NOT LIKE this person!!

I did LIKE this person very much!

Especially her name... :24:

YAY!!! I'm a scary OTHER!!! :whitey:

She's cold and calculating and controlling and VERY smart (she knows Chinese!). She's everything you could want in an Evil Other, so I hope that's who she turns out to be!

...and its not Sawyer

So whats up with Isabelle? She fills a role as chief justice or something apparently. The only famous Isabelle I could find of consequence was Queen Isabella who sponsored Columbus' journey to the New World and helped unite Spain. Though i much prefer this line of deductive reasoning. Isabelle traces back to the root Elizabeth. Elizabeth was the holy virgin Mary's cousin who gave birth to John the Baptist. Another miracle birth to go with Rachel's from NIP

So... to continue with this... did she seem rather manly to anyone else? I know that the actress that plays her is a woman, but there was something so masculine about her... and I feel like I even detected a bit of 5 o'clock shadow, maybe?

Could this perhaps be why the folks at Mittelos were so interested in Juliet? She impregnated male mice, maybe she can impregnate male humans, too. Also smacks of the immaculate conception allusion with her name (and Rachel's).

I did LIKE this person very much!


She's cold and calculating and controlling and VERY smart (she knows Chinese!). She's everything you could want in an Evil Other, so I hope that's who she turns out to be!

Me too. She was seriously creepy - I loved her!
It was like having the Inquisition on the island, everyone seemed so nervous around her. :biggrin:

It seems odd to me that so many people think they're the same--I saw this posted a lot in last week's episode thread regarding the Stranger promos. Methinks we're speculating too much and reaching a bit too far...

The jeweler, Ms Hawkings, is played by Fionnula Flanagan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001217/), age 65 (I thought she was older...)

Isabel is played by Diana Scarwid (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0769311/), age 51.

Personally, I didn't detect the slightest resemblance...

lol, I can't see it either, plus Fionnula Flanagan's performance was much better than Scarwid, both good, but Flanagan's lines were delivered perfectly.

my first impression of isabel was that she scared me as much, and maybe more, than ben does. that was just from watching the preview. i admit that i was a little disappointed that she wasn't made a little more interesting, but i didn't find ben very interesting at all for a few episodes. almost all of the characters have had to grow on me, but i can see being very in love Isabel. she just exudes evil in this role and she's a great actress. i'm guessing however that we won't see her for a while. we've been teased with her and had it suggested she could do something pretty terrible, like publicly decaptitate juliet, so i bet they hide her for a while and bring her out again towards the show's finale to scare the crap out of us.

Does anyone else think it's possible Isabel is really Karen DeGroot? This was my first thought when I saw her, due to the straight blonde hair...also seems about the right age...wouldn't Karen D. be in her fifties? I couldn't find a great pic of Karen D. for comparison, but check these out...

Isabel: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1256&pos=317

Karen DeGroot: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=737&pos=205

The hair and profile are quite similar. Also, we know that the Others don't always give their true names. What do you all think? Any chance they are the same person, or at least meant to be? (I'm not sure if they could get the same actress for both seasons, even if they meant her to be DeGroot.)

A new Other? I don't like the idea. Takes far too much screentime away from more interesting Others like Juliet and Cindy.

Does anyone else think it's possible Isabel is really Karen DeGroot? This was my first thought when I saw her, due to the straight blonde hair...also seems about the right age...wouldn't Karen D. be in her fifties? I couldn't find a great pic of Karen D. for comparison, but check these out...

Isabel: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1256&pos=317

Karen DeGroot: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=737&pos=205

The hair and profile are quite similar. Also, we know that the Others don't always give their true names. What do you all think? Any chance they are the same person, or at least meant to be? (I'm not sure if they could get the same actress for both seasons, even if they meant her to be DeGroot.)


I thought the same thing! It also makes sense in terms of her position within the Others -- one of the leaders. Plus, it appears that she can speak Chinese (not sure which dialect), which suggests that she has spent time off the island.

Yep, that's a good point about her speaking Chinese. It doesn't seem as if she's spent her whole life on these islands, like Ben supposedly has. But if she is really Karen D, it begs the question...where is Gerald DeGroot? I wondered before if he might be the same person as "Jacob"...but then what's up with all the phony names? Very confusing! :huh:

I agree...very interesting character.... i was wondering - Isabel seems like she sticks to a strict moral code....kind of like the smoke monster. I get the weirdest feeling that she is somehow in control of Smokey... we know it (the monster) can essentially scan peoples thoughts and minds like it did with Eko. It seems like Isabel was able to tell that Jack was lying.... anyone else see those similarities and possible clues, or is it just me?

I did notice that she was either good at interrogating people or a bit psychic.

Er, yeah ... but Sayid is also good at interrogating people and knowing when they're lying, but nobody's suggesting that he is a) psychic, b) scanning people's thoughts, or c) in control of the smoke monster. ;)

She was another creepy women to go along with the ring lady.

I agree. When I first saw her onscreen, I thought it was the old woman from Desmond's flashback.

So... to continue with this... did she seem rather manly to anyone else? I know that the actress that plays her is a woman, but there was something so masculine about her... and I feel like I even detected a bit of 5 o'clock shadow, maybe?

Could this perhaps be why the folks at Mittelos were so interested in Juliet? She impregnated male mice, maybe she can impregnate male humans, too. Also smacks of the immaculate conception allusion with her name (and Rachel's).

LOL. Interesting point...can't rule anything out with Lost :)

I am completely on board with this. Part of this has to do with creating a unisex or androginous race. It isn't coincidence that Isabelle and Rachel both appeared to have a hint of masculinity. Also the fact that the only real man's man was shot and killed.

About male pregnancy, my theory is that Tom is pregnant :14happy:

I liked Isabel very much. Totally sexy voice, and a mysterious and somewhat dangerous air about her, more than I ever felt from Juliet.

BTW, why is half the stuff in the thread spoiler-fonted? None of it needs to be.

Man, that interrogation scene is a mind trip for sure. Does Isabel actually know that Jack is lying or is she just pretending to know to see how he reacts? And if she does know, is that because she found the cue cards or she's psychic or there's another camera in the room, and if it's not that, then who else knows? Everybody? Was Juliet just pretending she wanted Jack to kill Ben so that they could set this all up? I tell ya what, I'm toast.

I agree. When I first saw her onscreen, I thought it was the old woman from Desmond's flashback.

Ha! Me too!! They don't really look much a like but I couldn't remember Dessie's "oracle" too well, so my first thought was that they are the same person.

I am completely on board with this. Part of this has to do with creating a unisex or androginous race. It isn't coincidence that Isabelle and Rachel both appeared to have a hint of masculinity. Also the fact that the only real man's man was shot and killed.

Pickett was a man's man??

It seems odd to me that so many people think they're the same--I saw this posted a lot in last week's episode thread regarding the Stranger promos. Methinks we're speculating too much and reaching a bit too far...

The jeweler, Ms Hawkings, is played by Fionnula Flanagan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001217/), age 65 (I thought she was older...)

Isabel is played by Diana Scarwid (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0769311/), age 51.

Personally, I didn't detect the slightest resemblance...

Yeah, it's odd. Some people have a real problem with this. It's called prosopagnosia aka face blindness. I believe there may be varying degrees of this affliction.

I really don't know what to think about Isabel, yet. Does anyone know how many episodes she's in? (Oops, would we be able to post that info here? Will it need spoiler tags?)

Yeah, it's odd. Some people have a real problem with this. It's called prosopagnosia aka face blindness. I believe there may be varying degrees of this affliction.

I really don't know what to think about Isabel, yet. Does anyone know how many episodes she's in? (Oops, would we be able to post that info here? Will it need spoiler tags?)

Yeah, that might be. My husband suffers from prosopagnosia. He has a hard time with people's faces.

Did anybody notice how mean Isabel was? Even Jack prefered his cage over being interrogated by this woman. :hide:

Though i much prefer this line of deductive reasoning. Isabelle traces back to the root Elizabeth.And don't forget that when J/K/S were taken by darts in LTDA, we heard a whisper that said "Elizabeth".

And that was the name of Des' sailboat (named after Libby, probably)....

Yeah, that might be. My husband suffers from prosopagnosia. He has a hard time with people's faces.

I'm the other way - great with faces, useless with names - is there a name for that too? :rolleyes:


Did anybody notice how mean Isabel was? Even Jack prefered his cage over being interrogated by this woman. :hide:

She was awesomely scary!
I'm so pleased we've got Isabel because, let's face it guys, without her the Others just ain't scary any more. ;)

I'm the other way - great with faces, useless with names - is there a name for that too? :rolleyes: .

In my case, it's called "getting old". :smile:

The movie "The Others." This is the same woman as we saw in Des' flashback/forward/whatever last week, right? If so, I think this further strengthens my theory that Des was dreaming and pieces of his experiences on the island manifested into the dream.

I thought she looked like a younger version of 'The Ring Lady' from last week too.

I think it might be that this character is only in the story to show us how powerful Ben is by contrast. Klugh came off as a tough woman with authority too, yet we soon saw she took orders from him. Same thing here.

Yeah, this woman could take on Smokey in Celebrity Death Match:)

She was awesomely scary!
I'm so pleased we've got Isabel because, let's face it guys, without her the Others just ain't scary any more. ;)

I loved the distaste she had for the Hydra.

I think it might be that this character is only in the story to show us how powerful Ben is by contrast. Klugh came off as a tough woman with authority too, yet we soon saw she took orders from him. Same thing here.

Oh I agree. Isabel is obviously very influential herself - after all, she has the power to sentence someone to death - and for her to follow Ben's orders absolutely, immediately and without question shows just how powerful Ben is.

I think it again calls into question whether Jacob is real or hypothetical.
If Jacob is hypothetical, as some people have suggested, then Ben is obviously the big cheese. If Jacob is real then is he above Ben or of equal authority?
Either way, I don't know if I want to meet him :hide:

Yeah, this woman could take on Smokey in Celebrity Death Match:)

Now *that* I wanna see! :biggrin:

And don't forget that when J/K/S were taken by darts in LTDA, we heard a whisper that said "Elizabeth".

And that was the name of Des' sailboat (named after Libby, probably)....

This is an interesting observation and provides another good explanation for hearing elizabeth so clearly in the whispers - since isabel is in charge of security.

I think Isabel is probably Benry's second-in-command....although I don't really understand why she didn't just go to the operating room herself and ask Benry what Juliet's sentence should be?

Maybe Isabel is actually hoping Benry will die, because she wants to usurp his authority and become The Others' new leader?

At any rate, I hope we see a lot more of her.

Isabel rocks.
Imo, her name comes from Stephen Hawkings's mother Isobel.

[copied from 'juliet's trial staged']

I don't think Isabel answers to Ben, at all. She's superior to him in rank. Alex just told Jack that to make him cooperate (see that second of thought & the look on her face when she answers his question 'does Isabel answer to Ben').

If Ben was in charge, Juliet needn't help Kate&Sawyer "escape," now would she?
(unless it's referring to Danny and Co; which is possible, of course!)

---

Since we seem to be on a Biblical-reference spree (or is that just in my mind?) Izebel (this the Dutch spelling) was the wife of a particularly bad king of Israel (Ahab), and she was practically the one in charge of the country for 22 years, doing all sorts of bad things...
that on a side note, though ;)

[copied from 'juliet's trial staged']

I don't think Isabel answers to Ben, at all. She's superior to him in rank. Alex just told Jack that to make him cooperate (see that second of thought & the look on her face when she answers his question 'does Isabel answer to Ben').

If Ben was in charge, Juliet needn't help Kate&Sawyer "escape," now would she?
(unless it's referring to Danny and Co; which is possible, of course!)

---

Since we seem to be on a Biblical-reference spree (or is that just in my mind?) Izebel (this the Dutch spelling) was the wife of a particularly bad king of Israel (Ahab), and she was practically the one in charge of the country for 22 years, doing all sorts of bad things...
that on a side note, though ;)

the biblical stuff is getting so overwhelming i can't choose to ignore it any longer.
If isabel is the sherrif then doesn't that make her in charge?
...and not ben?

I think Isabel is well cool!

She is the archetypal Other - smug, calm, quietly spoken & very, very scary.

That comparison to Karen De Groot is a very good one. The pictures look VERY similar to me. Good spot!

If isabel is the sherrif then doesn't that make her in charge?
...and not ben?
yay we agree! so it does happens people do!!! ;)

Does anyone else think it's possible Isabel is really Karen DeGroot? This was my first thought when I saw her, due to the straight blonde hair...also seems about the right age...wouldn't Karen D. be in her fifties? I couldn't find a great pic of Karen D. for comparison, but check these out...

Isabel: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1256&pos=317

Karen DeGroot: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=737&pos=205



I doubt it. One of the DHARMA Initiatives dealt with some sort of Utopian society. I was watching one of the Videos showing each of the research stations, one was called The Door. Have they found that yet??

If they started DHARMA around 1970, had the 'incident' around 1987, and current time -is- 2004.... then Ben and Isabel couldn't have been on the island "their whole lives".

I've been trying to factor in the Juliet interview where she saw the scan of the 20ish woman although Juliet said it was of an older woman. Are the Others aging rapidly or unevenly? Was there a time warp where everything moved ahead in time? Perhaps the time warp only affected those who were there, so the children taken aren't affected.

Could the rapid aging be the virus? :undecide:

Man, they better book the cast for making some Movies!

D/

Isabel may indeed be "the sheriff" but that doesn't necessarily mean she's higher than Ben in rank.

Our dear Benry may have appointed Isabel to oversee all of the disciplinarian actions, with the understanding that he is still calling the shots and can overrule her. In my old high school, our principal was at the top of the food chain, but he designated our vice-principle as the one to handle all of the discipline and behavior problems from students.

Does anyone else think it's possible Isabel is really Karen DeGroot? This was my first thought when I saw her,
!!! I thought that too - but when they called her Isabel I thought, "I guess not, then."
But I guess it figures they wouldn't call her Karen, and instead 'surprise' us later by revealing her true identity!

When I saw Isabel, i hollered, "I AM NOT ONE OF YOUR FANS!!!!"
she played christina crawford in mommy dearest.THANK YOU!! It was killing me! I couldnt figure it out!!

I really like Isabel's clothing. Actually it seems to me that the costume designer has been doing a really good job this season... lots of darkish solids, I thin this is the first season that we've seen Locke wear somthing other than khakis and a light-colored shirt....

On a serious note, where are they getting all these new clothes??

Okay guys here's a REAL geek Lost question: Yes, it appears Diana is playing Isabel (a.k.a. The Sheriff) on Lost but a friend of mine (John P.) who watches VERY carefully, believes that she did a previous tiny cameo on Lost. In the episode "Whatever The Case May Be" which is episode 12 of Season ONE of lost, where Kate is in the bank, Diana appears in white with long blonde hair as a cowering customer. If anyone has the dvds, and a good eye, can anyone confirm this? Thanks Cheta

She looks younger on the island than when Desmond saw her at the jewelry store.

I would love to see Desmond and Isabel. She looks like the old woman in Desmond centric episode.

She looks younger on the island than when Desmond saw her at the jewelry store.

That is maybe because the lady in the jewelery store and Isabel are not the same person/ actress.... :71:

It seems odd to me that so many people think they're the same--I saw this posted a lot in last week's episode thread regarding the Stranger promos. Methinks we're speculating too much and reaching a bit too far...

The jeweler, Ms Hawkings, is played by Fionnula Flanagan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001217/), age 65 (I thought she was older...)

Isabel is played by Diana Scarwid (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0769311/), age 51.

Personally, I didn't detect the slightest resemblance...

plus, why would she be OLDER in the past than she is in the present....unless the lady is desmonds past (who also MIGHT be isabel) is from a future point ahead of the present.

I would love to see Desmond and Isabel. She looks like the old woman in Desmond centric episode.
Hm. In accordance with the time travel theory (???) the old woman is... Penny!!!

Hm. In accordance with the time travel theory (???) the old woman is... Penny!!!

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

and Ben is old Walt (with Michael Jackson's skin problem) ?¿

..............................

I really hope that we haven't seen the last of Isabel. We have just got to see some more of her when they get back to Otherville.
I bet she doesn't burn her muffins.:rolleyes:

she just exudes evil in this role and she's a great actress. i'm guessing however that we won't see her for a while. we've been teased with her and had it suggested she could do something pretty terrible, like publicly decaptitate juliet


THAT might actually make me like Isabel.

yes, I hate blondie that much. *sigh* she makes me miss Ana Lucia.

I really like Isabelle too...I thought she was scary at first myself, but I went back and watched her carefully again, and she is actually not all that bad, she smiles secretively and is pretty nice considering her outward demeanor. She actually reminds me a LOT of one of my ballet teachers, looks and acts a lot like her so maybe that's why she doesn't scare me too bad. But that's beside the point. As far as who is in charge, Ben is definitely the head honcho. All he had to do was write on a slip of paper to have poor Juliet's sentence commuted. If Juliet is the Sheriff, Ben is something like the President of their world. Which would be why he has full authority to do that, along with these powerful women and once, Goodwin and Ethan who made up the rest of the decision making team.

Perhaps the Others have a separation of powers : Isabel is the Judiciary, but Ben IS the Law. (legislature)

I like the vice-principal idea described above; a leader - as Ben appears to be - would need a lieutenant to take care of things during his Hatch confined jaunts or similar tasks removing him from his usual duties. But when he's back - he's the daddy.

If there were an executive - then I'm with the poster who thinks Ethan and Goodwin will be missed beyond their doctoring and... what the heck did Goodwin do? - skills.

A welcome addition to the cast though. :smile: Hope we see her sparingly and scarily. Turning up like the bogyman; she's behind you! :eek:

Ben might do well to keep a look over his shoulder.