I never saw that one coming, did you?

he is also the brawl man..

on episode 1, when ben instructed ethan to go after the plane crash site.. why would he sent away the surgeon..? not that the passengers can be treated or anything..

I wasn't surprised because Ethan did seem to be looking after Claire in the staff. but sending Ethan off in Tlae of Two Cities becomes even more perplexing, Ben finds out he has a tumor and then proceeds to send off his only surgeon to a potentially dangerous situation :confused:

Yes Penny why send your best surgeon into the jungle of the survivors....very weird on his part....

Finally, as the surgeon he was.... I really do wonder what he did to Claire????

Maybe Henry knew that Ethan would not be able to perform the surgery that he needed so sending him away to help survivors kept him from operating on himself. After all you can be a good surgeon but Jack was a back surgeon - even better for Henry

Finally, as the surgeon he was.... I really do wonder what he did to Claire????
now.. dont get ahead of ourselves..
this will be answered in season 8...stay tune~

A lot of us suspected that Ethan was a doctor, if not a surgeon, but probably the latter. I agree that it's odd that Ben sent the only man remotely capable of operating on him off to spy on the losties. Even if Ethan wasn't a spinal surgeon, he was much better than nothing! (Or Juliet, the fertility researcher!)

Loved how Jack kept a straight face when Ben told him that! ;)

I also love how Ben makes it sound like it's Jack's fault they no longer have a surgeon. Sorry Ben, after Ethan kidnapped a pregnant woman, lynched her friend, killed a beachmate and threatened to kill the entire camp, I'm afraid they just had to neutralize the threat. So much for the Hippocratic oath.

Poor innocent Ethan. I'm shedding tears.

true save....and yes I figured he was a doctor also....so I figured he did the whole drug vital sign thing to Claire..but now that I hear surgeon...I am thinking he may have done other things.....he could have done vaginal surgeries so that she would not have really known

If you had only one surgeon on an island. Would you send him on a very dangerous mission? Yeah bad move ben.

Well, it IS the Others' island.

Yeah, that just seems DUMB that Ben would send away his only surgeon on dangerous missions. There must have been a half dozen times that the Losties (Locke especially) tried to talk Jack out of putting his life on the line because he was the only doctor.

It does, however, explain why Ethan was so good at fixing Juliet's plumbing ;)

On edit: However, remember that the Others did have contact with the outside world "before the sky turned purple" (or at least that's what we think). Consequently, it could be that Ethan was slightly more expendable than he would've been if Ben & co. were legitimately "stuck" on the island.

It's also very interesting to me to now definitely know that Ethan was a surgeon. I figured he was a doctor but wasn't sure about surgeon. It's also interesting and a little baffling to find out that Ben sent his only surgeon away shortly after finding out that he had a life threatening tumor. Though perhaps that could be because he'd already discussed his morality with Ethan and Ethan couldn't do anything to help. It would depend on Ethan's skill and what type of surgeon that he was. Maybe he wasn't skilled in spinal surgeries.

Am I the only one who laughed when they said Ethan was the surgeon? Right at that moment, I thought of Ethan, the guy in the jungle about to be killed, not a surgeon.

A plummer, a surgeon and tough as nails. Ethan was the man.

Maybe Ben was lying again. ??? It is a dumb thing to do and I didn't think Ben was dumb.

Yeah that wasn't a very smart decision. Maybe he just had a lot of faith in Ethan. Either that or he knew he'd capture Jack and convince him to be his full-time doctor. :biggrin:

Ethan- not only an excellent surgeon, but the community plumber, too! They should have kept track of him better!

Maybe they never suspected that the Crashies were going to be a threat.Rather than consider that Ethan would be in danger Ben may have been thinking Ethan would be the best person to send to patch up any survivors.

A plummer, a surgeon and tough as nails. Ethan was the man.

Ethan Rom does not sleep. He waits.

(Sorry -- couldn't resist.)

My roomate asked me the same question, to which I replied:

"Because Ethan was equal parts expert surgeon and Ultimate Badass."

I also love how Ben makes it sound like it's Jack's fault they no longer have a surgeon. Sorry Ben, after Ethan kidnapped a pregnant woman, lynched her friend, killed a beachmate and threatened to kill the entire camp, I'm afraid they just had to neutralize the threat. So much for the Hippocratic oath.

Poor innocent Ethan. I'm shedding tears.

Just to clarify, we don't know that Ethan hung Charlie or killed Sceve.
And moving a woman who seems to be in labor from a primitive camp to a medical ward might seem to a surgeon to be an appropriate move..

We've all been through these arguments before so I'm not really trying to change your opinon of Ethan, just pointing out that the story's not told yet, and Tom's comment about the glass house was on target..
100%
Maybe they never suspected that the Crashies were going to be a threat.Rather than consider that Ethan would be in danger Ben may have been thinking Ethan would be the best person to send to patch up any survivors.

This was my first thought, it seems obvious to me that it's what Ben intended.
Ethan helped them hunt boar - by Locke's account he was the best hunter in the group.

Yeah, I'm kind of perplexed as to why Ben would send out the resident surgeon on recon missions. One thing I have noticed is the Others appear to have very specific areas of expertise. Juliet is a doctor, but not a traditional physician (she's a fertility specialist). Perhaps Ethan's abilities were very specialized (Ben did note that a *spinal surgeon fell from the sky)? Or, maybe Ben was lying? Wouldn't be the first time.

Yeah, I'm kind of perplexed as to why Ben would send out the resident surgeon on recon missions.


Where there are accident survivors, a doctor might come in handy. Ben sent his surgeon, who also happened to be a crackerjack hunter and tracker.
Could be interpreted as a noble gesture.

Where there are accident survivors, a doctor might come in handy. Ben sent his surgeon, who also happened to be a crackerjack hunter and tracker.
Could be interpreted as a noble gesture.

It's possible, but if Ben sent ethan because he was a doctor, why didn't ethan try to treat anyone, Ben told him to get a lost and not to get involved. Why would he need to risk Ethan's life doing this, when he had other henchmen around?

So Ethan was there 1 Trained Surgeon.
So they used him as a Handyman/Plumber!!!
Sent him off on a possibly Dangerous mission to infiltrate the Losties when they first Crashed.
Then sent him off to face Charlie and Kidnap Claire.
Then after Claire escaped they sent him back after her.
So Charlie could Kill Him!!
Yea!! These are smart people. !!!
There stuck out in the middle of nowhere.
And this is how they treat there 1 Trained Surgeon...please!!!
This really left me cold.
They are trying to make the"others' such complicated people
But instead they try and tell us "Ethan"
One of the Others who Was Orginaly Portrayed as one of the
Worst of the Bad Guys
was actually Just like Jack in the Fact he was
there Doctor.
Who was trained to "Do no Harm"

So Ethan was there 1 Trained Surgeon.
So they used him as a Handyman/Plumber!!!
Sent him off on a possibly Dangerous mission to infiltrate the Losties when they first Crashed.
Then sent him off to face Charlie and Kidnap Claire.
Then after Claire escaped they sent him back after her.
So Charlie could Kill Him!!
Yea!! These are smart people. !!!
There stuck out in the middle of nowhere.
And this is how they treat there 1 Trained Surgeon...please!!!
This really left me cold.
They are trying to make the"others' such complicated people
But instead they try and tell us "Ethan"
One of the Others who Was Orginaly Portrayed as one of the
Worst of the Bad Guys
was actually Just like Jack in the Fact he was
there Doctor.
Who was trained to "Do no Harm"



I thought about this too, and I take it to mean the following:

Ethan was the right guy to send. Not Tom, not Pickett, not any other unfit Other. Ethan.

But more so, it tells me that Ethan's job as spy and saboteur is more important than his job as a surgeon.

Excellent point. It makes me wonder what Goodwin's job was in the Others community.

Maybe he was the only one trained to know what to inject into Claire.

It didn't sit right with me either about Ethan being their only surgeon. I can only hope that there's a good reason he became as nutty as he did about Claire and did all that stuff like the hanging of Charlie. Doesn't seem like a "doctor" kinda thing to do IMO.

i don't believe that ethan was a surgeon. ben's a great liar, remember, and they are trying to convince jack that they really need him and he's very "special".
the mittelos bioscience website (created by the lost producers), shows ethan is a Ph.D., not an M.D. Ph.D.s are not surgeons. according to that web site ethan is a famous scientist and genetics expert. that makes his interest in claire make sense.
the mittelos web site also shows that there are three islands: the main one, the little "alcatraz", and a third small island that i think had a security and communications center. the "alcatraz" island that jack has been on supposedly has three purposes:
quarry, zoological research, and "indoctrination" facility. that is what they are doing to jack, and everything they have said to him is about indoctrinating him into their group (i.e. we really need you jack, you are the only qualified doctor around). this epi showed us that jack believes he is a great leader and savior, and i think the others are playing into that belief. look how pround of himself he seemed at the end of the episode when he thought he had saved juliet?

Yeah, Jack always falls for that- saving the girl in trouble thing. I don't think he should trust Juliet in the slightest, but he can't help it, can he? Sad puppy! ;)

Anyway, I think you're right sandiego6656, I highly doubt Ben was telling the truth. Ethan never seemed like a doctor to me. And I still don't understand how he was so utterly hard core when it came to fighting. He was able to knock down Jack easily. I guess he was like some kind of mega tough scientist? You know how common those are... lol

Has Ben ever told the truth? So take the Ethan explination for what it's worth.

the mittelos bioscience website (created by the lost producers), shows ethan is a Ph.D., not an M.D. Ph.D.s are not surgeons.

It's my understanding that website is a fake. Though I'm not sure where I can find evidence to back that up.

Maybe he was the only one trained to know what to inject into Claire.

More specifically how and where to inject her.

and also remember the medical hatch was operational at that time and close to the camp. HOWEVER- from the season premiere it seemed Ben's decision to send Ethan was quick, spur--of-the-moment thing after he saw the plane.

I expect soon we'll find out that Goodwin was the only person who could have taken people off the island. :rolleyes:

That comment about Ethan made me think of Atlas Shrugged.

I'm with the Ben is LYING camp because it is frankly ridiculous that he would send their only surgeon on a dangerous undercover mission to kidnap plane crash victims. We have seen with our own eyes that Ethan was a handyman in Othersville.

What I'm more interested in is why Ben is lying to Jack about Ethan...see my thread in the spoiler theories section 'Jack is being molded into the new Ethan.'

Two possibilities – Ethan was a surgeon/physician or Ethan was not a surgeon/physician.

If we do indeed believe Ben and that Ethan was supposedly their surgeon/physician, Ethan was actually sent by Ben to “investigate and locate any survivors from the fuselage”. He and Goodwin were instructed to “live among them, listen, learn, don't get involved and prepare a list within three days”. I guess I could almost go along with the reasoning that, who better to assess any situation than a surgeon/physician? Should that not be one of the main skills of that profession? Observe, learn, and be able to accurately provide an educated opinion in regards to a particular situation. Maybe that was one of Ethan’s strong suits (along with plumber, hunter, etc) and that was why he was sent. He was told not to get involved!

If we do not believe Ben (to me it’s a toss up…sometimes he is a man of his word and other times he has blatantly lied), then I would have to say that by him telling Jack that Ethan was their doctor, he was only feeding what supposedly all surgeons have, Jack’s messiah complex. He knows by observation what Jack’s wife said in an episode, Jack will always need someone to fix. And by Ben playing in to that, leading Jack to believe that he is their only medical hope, that by helping the Others he can not only help them, but also help the remaining survivors back on the island by possibly keeping the Others away from them…this fuels Jack’s desire to do just that – fix the situation by sacrificing himself for the good of everyone else.

I’m torn myself and I’m still not certain if Ethan was or wasn’t a surgeon/physician. Like everything else that’s going on in this drama…we need more info!!!

i don't believe that ethan was a surgeon. ben's a great liar, remember, and they are trying to convince jack that they really need him and he's very "special".
the mittelos bioscience website (created by the lost producers), shows ethan is a Ph.D., not an M.D. Ph.D.s are not surgeons. according to that web site ethan is a famous scientist and genetics expert. that makes his interest in claire make sense.
the mittelos web site also shows that there are three islands: the main one, the little "alcatraz", and a third small island that i think had a security and communications center. the "alcatraz" island that jack has been on supposedly has three purposes:
quarry, zoological research, and "indoctrination" facility. that is what they are doing to jack, and everything they have said to him is about indoctrinating him into their group (i.e. we really need you jack, you are the only qualified doctor around). this epi showed us that jack believes he is a great leader and savior, and i think the others are playing into that belief. look how pround of himself he seemed at the end of the episode when he thought he had saved juliet?

the mittelos website is FAN CREATED. don't base your theories on that rubbish.

I wasn't surprised because Ethan did seem to be looking after Claire in the staff. but sending Ethan off in Tlae of Two Cities becomes even more perplexing, Ben finds out he has a tumor and then proceeds to send off his only surgeon to a potentially dangerous situation :confused:

Yes, two days before he finds he has a tumor, and several weeks before he finds there is actually a spinal surgeon on the island. Apparently, having the characters do very stupid things seems to be the only way the authors fnd to move the story forward (limp forward, as it were). Honestly, I am feeling somewhat disapointed that the whole tumor story turned out to be true. The whole tumor thing is so soap operish that I kept hoping that it would turn out to be a ruse of sorts. Unfortunately, I was wrong.

I'm going to hope the answer is "Ethan is not a surgeon. ben was lying. Again."

Presumably, to manipulate Jack. My guess is they do have another surgeon.

Whether or not Ben was lying, a thought occurred to me.

What if Ethan and Goodwin were Ben's "lieutenants." We know (or at least think we know) that Ben is in charge. Perhaps he sent Ethan (regardless of whether or not he was a medical doctor) and Goodwin (who we at least know had a military knife...who knows what that stems from) to investigate because he knows that he can trust them. If they are higher up on the Other's food chain, then regardless of what their function or occupation is, he would send them before any other...other.

(Yay! First post!)

My thoughts on this...was why not send your only doctor to a plane crash site? But then again didn't he tell them to watch and observe?

I just thought he might send ethan because he figured he could save some of them?

I just thought he might send ethan because he figured he could save some of them?


Ethan didn't try to save anyone...and his storyline didn't make sense for him to have medical skills either. It's strange, and stupid that they sent Ethan, but maybe he also had experience in infiltration.

My roomate asked me the same question, to which I replied:

"Because Ethan was equal parts expert surgeon and Ultimate Badass."

:biglaugh::thumbup1: The most badass plumber/surgeon/spy ever.

Whether or not Ethan was a surgeon, it made me realize something.

How come they didn't try to help save lives that first day? Imagine how many people might have survived on the beach that first day. They had medical facilities that could have helped both the marshall and the guy whose leg was really badly damaged survive or at least not suffer so much!

They had a medical facility, they had a boat, they had a sub, they knew the island, heck the Hatch wasn't that far from where the survivors landed.

Basic human decency would be to give medical assistance to the severly wounded and dying!

I think it's pretty clear that basic human decency is in short supply among the Others.

i think that the things ben didn't reckon on were the marshal's guns and the manifest.

Why send Ethan after the plane crash if he was their only good surgeon? They had guys like Danny or Tom who seem as if they would have better suited for the task, why risk losing someone with such value to them, as Ethan had?

I thought exactly the same thing. Why would they risk Ethan especially because at that point Ben had just found out about his tumor. It also seems unusual that a surgeon would hang a guy from a tree to kill him. :rolleyes:

There's another thread on this. Some of us have speculated Ben sent Ethan to help the survivors. A doctor and crackerjack tracker/hunter would come in handy. When Ethan got there, he saw they had a doctor so he helped them get food.

Also, we don't know that Ethan hung Charlie.

Ethan may have been their only surgeon, but he was also fit, strong, and intelligent. He was probably the best person for the job, that's all.

...Also, we don't know that Ethan hung Charlie.

After seeing his bizarre Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Rogers routine, we didn't need to see him string up Charlie to know who did it.

Also ethan may have just been a "regular" surgeon, jack is a spinal surgeon, I think ben even mentions it when he talks to jack in the shark room

Something just came to mind and made me wonder: In a past epi, Ben mentioned to Jack that 2 days after finding out that he had a tumor on his spine, "a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky". Did he actually know that, before sending Ethan out to find out about survivors? Was Ethan not good enough to do the surgery? It seems ironic after Ben told Jack that he had a perfectly good surgeon.

Why send Ethan? There are several possibilities. Ethan had more recent contact with the outside and thus could infiltrate better? Ethan was more trusted than some of the other choices? Ethan had the best set of skills for the job?

Some of us have speculated Ben sent Ethan to help the survivors.Umm go back a few episodes and review the instructions Ben gave Ethan & whats his name the Good guy when he sent them out. Help them was not mentioned, infiltrate and making a list were mentioned. If help were the goal they could have approached them in a friendlier way without subterfuge.

Umm go back a few episodes and review the instructions Ben gave Ethan & whats his name the Good guy when he sent them out. Help them was not mentioned, infiltrate and making a list were mentioned. If help were teh goal they could have approached them in a friendlier way without subterfuge.

also ben told them to make up "back stories, good one's, if they ask, stay quite if they don't" there is no way ethan was sent to help. Goodwin

I never saw that one coming, did you?


Why would Ben send Ethan into the Jungle? He wouldn't.

TPTB may have certain aspects of Lost planned, but this is one example where they try and make something fit that doesn't (and there are more examples of this kind of poor planning/storytelling which are far more ridiculous).

Umm go back a few episodes and review the instructions Ben gave Ethan & whats his name the Good guy when he sent them out. Help them was not mentioned, infiltrate and making a list were mentioned. If help were teh goal they could have approached them in a friendlier way without subterfuge.

Ethan was told to assume the identity of a survivor and ~ in so many words ~, keep a low profile. That could be read any number of ways, it doesn't default to "we're the bad guys". Who's to say he wouldn't have stepped in as helpful doctor if Jack hadn't been there?

One thing we do know is that Ethan helped the Losties find food. Far as we know, he was a benefactor right up until he took Claire to the maternity hatch, and that also could be read different ways. He was obviously distressed to find she was in premature labor. He reacted exactly as a real doc might - he got her out of the woods and into a place where he could treat her.

Once there, he continually reassured Claire that the decision to give up Aaron's was entirely her own. Maybe he was lying about that, maybe not - there's nothing in the script to support or refute either argument. Sure, a loose-cannon 16-year-old told Claire they were going to cut the baby out and kill her. Even if she's right (and who knows?) that doesn't mean Ethan was involved. He wasn't visible in the operating room tableau.

There's nothing in the script that says or implies he was involved in Charlie's hanging. He told Claire that Charlie had gone back to camp. We each make up our own minds as to whether he thought that was true or he was lying. I'm on the fence, choose to keep an open mind.

I really don't have an opinion, was just pointing out that we don't yet know yet what Ben & Co's motivations were and are re the Losties. Until that's clarified it's all good spec.

Maybe he just had a lot of faith in Ethan.
Perhaps Ethan's medical skills helped him to distinguish "Good" (kidnap) from "Bad" (kill or ignore) amoung the losties.

I think that Ben sent Ethan as a spur of the moment thing. Plus, there's a manifesting thing that keeps coming up in the show. Perhaps Ben was sure that he had manifested a doctor that could give him exactly the treatment he needed? i think that Ethan might have been an obstetrician and therefore couldn't treat Ben.

Also. I think that Ethan took liberties with Claire that weren't agreed upon by Ben or the rest of the Others. Ethan is part of the M. group, but we haven't seen Ben as part of M. Ethan may have gone a little power crazy when he saw that Claire was pregnant, and wanted to do testing on his own. I'm really not sure that all of that was authorized. I think Ethan went out on his own, and maybe even ran away from the Others. He might have been Juliet's boyfriend, and Ben might have banished Ethan from the camp knowing that he would be killed by the survivors. Ethan might have been someone that Juliet was cheating with? I think there might be a triange there.

I also think that for some reason, when an Other is murdered there has to be retribution. Anna Lucia killed Goodwin, and she was killed. Eko killed some Other, and then the monster took him. Charlie killed Ethan, and now the Universe is conspiring to have his head. Desmond killed what's his name from the Hatch, and his life is pretty screwed, but he hasn't died, unless he actually died when the Hatch imploded...but that's another thread. They "marked" Juiliet, but were going to kill her, "an eye for an eye." I've always had the thought that murder is a major part of the Lost big picture plot, because most of the survivors were murderers in their own way.

Once again for all the people who keep insisting that Ethan might have "actually" been sent to help the survivors:

This is straight from Ben in "A Tale of Two Cities".

Ethan, get up there to that fuselage. There may actually be survivors; and you're one of them. A passenger -- in shock -- come up with an adequate story if they ask. Stay quiet if they don't. Listen, learn, don't get involved. I want lists in 3 days. Go.

"Don't get involved" to me means "just hang around there and pretend you're a crash victim", not "stitch up survivors without Jack ever noticing".

Perhaps Ben was sure that he had manifested a doctor that could give him exactly the treatment he needed? i think that Ethan might have been an obstetrician and therefore couldn't treat Ben.
100% agree. Ethan likely WAS on OB/GYN, which is a surgical field. A trained OB would know how to inject Aaron while still in the womb, whereas this would be near impossible for any other kind of doctor. An OB would not know how to remove a tumor from the spine any more than a fertility doc would. Ethan wasn't more useful to keep at camp, because Juliet could probably deal with standard illnesses.

Clearly, his badassness overrode his medical skills, which is why he was deployed.

That is, if you believe Ben is being honest. :biggrin: It also works if you believe the plane was supposed to land (not crash) on the island, bringing Jack to Ben.

Ethan didn't help because he was supposed to observe and stay out of the spotlight. If he was one of the doctors helping the survivors, everyone would know who he was. They would get very suspicious when he disappeared after three days like he was told to.

As for why Ben sent him, my guess is that he felt he was the best qualified. It seems weird to me, but he had his reasons. We just don't know what they were. :shrug:

Sorry, I don't normally reply with out reading the whole thread first, but...

... wasn't there an entire "team" of Dr's and Nurses setting up to work on Claire when she was in the medical hatch???

Ethan the only Dr..... I'm not buying it


And I love the reply about "next we will find out that Goodwin was the only one who could get them off the island"... LOL:biggrin:

Not to rehash some of the same thoughts, but this is how I see it:

* Ben showed no hesitation in dispatching Ethan and Goodwin as part of his recon team. They were sent to be observers and information collectors, nothing more. While they had unique skills that were important to the Others, those skills were not needed on THIS mission. They were clearly two people Ben trusted to do his bidding. Anything done outside of his specifically outlined assignment was not "official" and could likely be viewed as a betrayal.

* I do believe Ethan was the Others only surgeon. He was the point man on Claire's abduction and was no doubt going to be the one to extract Aaron. That doesn't mean he was in Jack's class, or that he was the only person trained in the medical sciences. Juliet has some ability as well, not to mention some of the Others who we have seen step in to perform certain tasks.

I know there is a lot of ongoing debate about Ben sending Ethan after the crash...

Thoughts -
1. The decision was quick but didn't seem impulsive. Almost expected as Ethan looked to Ben. Possibly Ethan has high standing and leadership in the community as well.
2. Ethan as the doctor/surgeon. We know he treated Claire so its probably not a lie that he has a strong medical background. If a surgeon - we know its not a spinal surgeon since Ben thought it "fate" that Jack was. Seemed that was independent of Ethan dying.
3. Ethan's doctor skills were probably not a reason for sending him - since he was just instructed to watch and learn.

So... Why send your valued doctor/surgeon?
1. Ben didn't know how imminent his medical need would be. Only learned that through Jack. He also thought that he had another medically trained individual - Juliet.
2. Why aren't we thinking about Ethan's parallels to Jack? Jack routinely went on potentially dangerous excursions even though he was the leader and his skills as a doctor were even more vital to his group of losties.