Anybody read this Classic Sci-Fi novel? Any similarities/connections?

Either the Board is really slow, or nobody has posted this yet. Do you think there is a connection with the title of this episode and the Heinlein science fiction novel of the same name. I read this book over 30 years ago, and don't remember most of it, but what I do recall was that it was about a man who was raised by Martians, came to Earth and became the leader of a new religion. He was eventually killed. I'll have to look up a synopsis on the book, but for those who have read this book recently or know it well, what are the parallels?
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http://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Strange-Land-Robert-Heinlein/dp/0340837950/sr=8-1/qid=1172119155/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-1898522-5252947?ie=UTF8&s=books

Well, here's a link to a synopsis. Other than the central character being a human, but having been raised by others is not really one of them, I don't see many parallels that jump right out at me. Unless they kill Jack...hee hee hee!

Read it years ago but couldn't grok it.

We've been merged...kind of like a weird fuselage Vulcan mind meld!

Maybe the connecting theme is that someone with special talents or leadership skills is doomed to isolation.

Anybody read this Classic Sci-Fi novel? Any similarities/connections?

The book is about an outsider who transforms Earth culture by introducing radical new ways of thinking. Although he is human, there is little human about him. In the beginning he is naive and confused and held captive, and used as an unwitting pawn by the powerful. However he soon begins to have an influence on people and eventually becomes a messianic figure.

"He walks among us, but is not one of us."

The foreshadowing here is that Jack will begin exerting an influence on the Others, perhaps causing their ideology to collapse from within. There is something unique about Jack that makes him powerful. Perhaps the Others faith in Jacob will be shaken by the fact that Jack is not on Jacob's list, but appears to be very special anyway.

Stranger in a Strange Land is also a biblical allusion to Moses, who refers to himself by that name in Exodus. As a young man Moses fled his home in Egypt and found a wife far away in Midian, where he had a son named he named Gershom, which means stranger or alien. Jack may be the outsider who finds a wife (Juliet) in an unfamiliar place.

I read this almost 20 years ago and didn't remember the premise of the book, so I jumped in here for a refresher.

Kenrod...excellent first post! Very consise.

Maybe the connecting theme is that someone with special talents or leadership skills is doomed to isolation.

Aha! I think we have a winner! Thank you, amidala64.

Does anyone remember a tattooed lady in that book?

Pharoah (Ben/Jacob), Let My People Go!

Aha! I think we have a winner! Thank you, amidala64.

Does anyone remember a tattooed lady in that book?

Yes - Patty is a tattooed strip artist who does her act with "trained" snakes.

Some other points about Heinlein's book not mentioned above: there is a religious cult called the "Fosterites" who look/sound like a Christian fundamentalist sect, but instead worship their founder Foster. They have an "outer circle" for "Seekers" and an "inner circle" for the "true believers. Valentine Michael Smith, the "Man from Mars," ends up starting a rival cult that arouses the Fosterites' anger against him, leading to his eventual martyrdom.

There are two major groups in the book - the "good people" (Jubal Harshaw and his "family," composed of Smith and associated friends, or "water brothers") versus the manipulative and violent Fosterites, who are portrayed as a conniving cult (while at the same time using a lot of the same elements in worship that Smith himself eventually adopts in the Church of All Worlds.)

This syncretism isn't accidental - like some of us are *hoping* from Lost, there's a meta-story there too. All of the action in Heinlein's book takes place under the watchful eyes of angels (kind of funny ones, admittedly) which are a mix of the deceased characters and apparently archangels as well. The dead Foster (founder of the Fosterites) ends up actually working in concert with the dead Smith - both who wind up in the end as cooperators in the heavenly realm.

This might actually connect to Lost, in the sense that the differences between The Others and the Losties might perhaps be syncretized at some time by some "higher power" (Dharma? Hanso? some other rabbit still in the hat?)

Well, yes it would. I've read the book (unexpuragated and purged versions).

This is an interesting connection especially since Jack is already showing he can influence the others.

Remember the others have these rules (or laws) in place and basically jack told Ben to save Juliet and Ben just did so without question. He broke the rules of the others based on a simple request by Jack.

This is an interesting connection especially since Jack is already showing he can influence the others.

Remember the others have these rules (or laws) in place and basically jack told Ben to save Juliet and Ben just did so without question. He broke the rules of the others based on a simple request by Jack.
Well, Ben's own life, or at least his ability to walk, was on the line.

Well, Ben's own life, or at least his ability to walk, was on the line.

Understood. But, jack still showed us he can influence the others.

All of the action in Heinlein's book takes place under the watchful eyes of angels (kind of funny ones, admittedly) which are a mix of the deceased characters and apparently archangels as well.

Great post, stephanie. I'm new here.

One thing that struck me as you mentioned the ending of SiASL: in the novel, the events that happen are presented as a sort of ongoing drama or stage play, with the human characters all sort of 'roles' taken on by various eternal spirits. This is part of Heinlein's little pantheist/reincarnation cosmology, but doesn't that also have a strong resonance with LOST?

It's implied in SiaSL that the angels are souls that continually reincarnate themselves on earth in the various character roles. There appears to be a link here to the DHARMA eastern mysticism.

Also, when the book shifts perspective to the 'watching angels' that observe the events from another realm, it is as they are watching the way the drama unfolds as spectators -- as the children and people told Jack that they were 'watching' them. But watching them for what? We get hints throughout the series that the LOSTies are 'known' to the Others. Their lives, their moral decisions, etc, have all been recorded. Are the moral choices being made a sort of drama for the 'watchers'?

Further, I seem to remember it being implied in SiaSL that the dramatic events are set up to happen over and over and over again, with change being made by the various 'managers' from the ethereal realm. This also has strong resonance, especially now with Desmond's episode.

Do you think there is a connection with the title of this episode and the Heinlein science fiction novel of the same name. I read this book over 30 years ago, LOL Glad you said over 30 years ago, I was thinking it is more like 35+ in my case. :biggrin: I do think the title reflects a definite parallel with Jack being a stranger introduced into their society who will bring social change. So I think the title goes with the tacked on meaning for the tatoos to refer to Jack, (Has there been a real translation of the tatoos?)

In the book the guy from Mars was raised outside of mainstream society and brought down to Earth where he interacted with the more typical earthling, Here that could also apply to Karl who was raised in an isolated society, not even exposed to the Brady Bunch, and will now be joining a society where he interacts with people from the mainstream of life. I wonder if Karl will also have an effect? Will he too be ASiaSL?

Also, when the book shifts perspective to the 'watching angels' that observe the events from another realm, it is as they are watching the way the drama unfolds as spectators -- as the children and people told Jack that they were 'watching' them. But watching them for what? We get hints throughout the series that the LOSTies are 'known' to the Others. Their lives, their moral decisions, etc, have all been recorded. Are the moral choices being made a sort of drama for the 'watchers'?

Hi, ihminen, "I'm a stranger here myself..."

One interesting thing about angelic or spooky beings as "watchers" - the 200 angels that were supposed to have come down from heaven to marry the "daughters of men" were in legend called the "Grigori" - the watchers.

Other "watchers" referred to in Jewish folklore are tall silent giants who are witnesses to human activity (although I don't know if any of them have less than the normal number of toes...)

So yes, I think the "watching" aspect of the heavenly reincarnated beings in SiaSL does have some link here, as you said.

Also interesting - this idea of "knowing" and being "known." I think The Others' little lists are some of the spookiest elements about them - how do they *know* what they know?

I don't know if Jack is necessarily the "Valentine Michael Smith" of the story, though - if there is indeed any parallel at all. Smith was a complete moral innocent, completely free of any malice or guile, especially at the beginning. In fact, the whole first third of the book or so catalogues the development of Smith's moral character - of learning when to judge "right actions" vs. a "wrongness." He has godlike powers and without that fundamental innocence wouldn't be a benevolent superbeing; he'd be a monster. Jack, OTOH, is IMO not an innocent. I'm not saying he's "bad" but he's definitely not pure of heart.

There may be another parallel with the beginning of the book. After Smith arrives on Earth, he is taken to a hospital, and basically placed in protective cutody while the world government decides what to do with him. After a while the decision is made to kill him. Luckily, one of his nurses is sympathetic and helps him escape. That sets up everything that comes after, including his friendship with a group of "good ones."
If Jack is in fact the Stranger in a Strange Land, does this foreshadow that Juliet will help Jack escape? And become involved with him afterwards?

Also interesting - this idea of "knowing" and being "known." I think The Others' little lists are some of the spookiest elements about them - how do they *know* what they know?

The only hint I can think of at this point is the uncanny ability that the jeweler showed Desmond in knowing things, and indeed prophecying things in the previous episode. Are their lives all being played over and over in some sense, or is there any other hint of where this supernatural knowledge comes from?

I don't know if Jack is necessarily the "Valentine Michael Smith" of the story, though - if there is indeed any parallel at all.

I don't think so, either. In fact, if the episode title is purely a reference to the Bible then none of this has anything to do with Heinlein. But if it did, it would only in a thematic sense, viz, LOST's dealings with moral choices, with mystical/religious ideas, compared to SiaSL's similar examination of where moral choices come from (Smith explodes many religious tropes about sin and morality), and in both the 'watching' is a sense of moral judgement of actions taken.

Isn't the original phrase "stranger in a strange land" a biblical reference.from Exodus? (The book of the bible, not the Lost episode!)

Isn't the original phrase "stranger in a strange land" a biblical reference.from Exodus? (The book of the bible, not the Lost episode!)

It's from the KJV, yes. I know this, but I don't think it's unreasonable that LOST might reference also a classic work of SF, is it? Don't we have precedent for references to King's Dark Tower series, etc, already?

LOL Glad you said over 30 years ago, I was thinking it is more like 35+ in my case. :biggrin:

Don't suppose you would buy the story that I was precocious and read this book when I was three???:bigrinan: Nah, I wouldn't buy it either, mainly because most of my synapses have been fried by homeschooling three children under 11 and all I can remember of the book was Michael Valentine Smith grok-ing the grass!

Lots of interesting things here from people who are half my age though. The watchers are a very interesting concept that can be easily connected to LOST, based on what Cindy said last night and the hidden whispers. I don't see the Others as angelic but I can see smoky as an angel though, an archangel or warrior angel--like Michael. Michael...Walt.. AAGRRGGHH!!:eek:

The book is about an outsider who transforms Earth culture by introducing radical new ways of thinking.
It would not be unreasonable to assume that this episode had very strong connections to Heinlein's book since TPTB have reported that they often refer to written works in the series, PLUS they are admitted Sci-Fi fans.

in the novel, the events that happen are presented as a sort of ongoing drama or stage play, with the human characters all sort of 'roles' taken on by various eternal spirits. This is part of Heinlein's little pantheist/reincarnation cosmology, but doesn't that also have a strong resonance with LOST?

Also, when the book shifts perspective to the 'watching angels' that observe the events from another realm, it is as they are watching the way the drama unfolds as spectators --

Their lives, their moral decisions, etc, have all been recorded. Are the moral choices being made a sort of drama for the 'watchers'?
Here's a thought I had after reading your post:

~ * ~ What if WE are the watchers? ~ * ~

The television audience watches actors taking on various "roles" in this "ongoing drama" but we don't get involved. We merely "observe the events from another realm" and cannot interact with the drama onscreen.

Also interesting - this idea of "knowing" and being "known." I think The Others' little lists are some of the spookiest elements about them - how do they *know* what they know?
This also falls neatly into the audience as "watchers."
How do we know what we know? Because WE are the only ones privy to the Flashbacks, private conversations, and interactions between characters that no one else onscreen is aware of. Of everyone involved, WE are the most knowledgeable about the characters because we are seeing ALL - even events that are happening simultaneously on the Island.

WE could definitely be identified as
all-seeing/all-knowing beings. :renske:

IWE could definitely be identified as
all-seeing/all-knowing beings. :renske:

I am all seeing/alll knowing. I have my kids convinced that I have eyes in the back of my head! Wouldn't it be a hoot if Cuse/Lindhoff made appearances in the final episodes of LOST and they were the supreme all knowing beings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihminen http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1394986#post1394986)
Also, when the book shifts perspective to the 'watching angels' that observe the events from another realm, it is as they are watching the way the drama unfolds as spectators --


Back to real theories....Based on how the writers work, we were supposed to get more out of the title of the episode than the obvious--Jack in Thailand. Ben and his gang constantly refer to themselves as the "good guys" and we know they spend a lot of time in observation. It wouldn't be a stretch to think they see themselves as watching angels. They are in fact watching from another realm/island. As it appears to us, their moral code is appalling, murder, kidnapping, lying, but they think of themselves as superior and good. Ordained by a higher power to do what they are doing.

Kenrod you're reading my mind! Loved your post :)

Don't suppose you would buy the story that I was precocious and read this book when I was three???:bigrinan: Nah, I wouldn't buy it either, mainly because most of my synapses have been fried by homeschooling three children under 11 and all I can remember of the book was Michael Valentine Smith grok-ing the grass! :eek: Three is my excuse!:biggrin: Grok-ing the grass LOL some of my friends in that era were into Grok-ing the grass.:rolleyes:

I think the Heinlen reference is more likely that the Bible one but both might be in play. I too liked the watcher aspect that was mentioned.

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I see the connection, but then, in the other life I am a bookworm, an English teacher (12th grade) and a writer...sort of.
I see connections everywhere...hmmm 'Sea Horse in the Sky' (1970's era SF) could also be a reference point but so could 'Rite of Passage' by Panshin...TPTB show every evidence of bookwormities maximus....:bigrinan:

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Hey Fonzerelli, actually read Stranger in a Strange Land along with Starship Troopers, like over a decade and a half ago. Remember more about Troopers because I reread it after that B.S. Aliens rip-off movie came out. Still prefer Orson Scott Card to Heinlein though.

Kevonski, if you have nothing to add to a thread except for insults, then please stay away from that thread! Reading the site rules might also be a very good idea if you want to continue posting here...

random thought about Heilein's book

didn't the main character change everyone around him? i mean he had incredible influence on them so much so that they took up many of his beliefs/practices. hewas eventually martyred though by those that didn't want his influence. if this holds true and the book is the basis for Jack etc then...well, okay that doesnt sound like it bodes well for Jack.

end random thought.

Aside from some names which have stuck with me through the years (Jubal, Dorcas, VMS) the only thing I remember from SiaSL was a particular character in Jubal's employ. Her specialty (to the best of my recollection - it's been many moons) was observation without any assumption - the example given was something along these lines: if you are looking at the front of a house, and someone asks you what the color the house is, you cannot provide a conclusive answer; you know the color of the front, and common sense may dictate that other sides of the house are the same color, but you cannot jump to that conclusion until you can see them and make the actual observation.

Whether or not that notion applies to watching (by characters, fans, what have you) I have no idea.

Hi, Noble Savage: you are thinking of the character Anne, who was a member of a guild called the Fair Witnesses. (They were a bit like Mentats in Dune - wonder who borrowed from whom?) They received special training in memory control and were certified to be utterly truthful - so much that they couldn't say what color a house was painted on, on the side they couldn't see. People would hire them and bring them into difficult or confrontational situations. They were observers, IOW - but very special ones who provided a non-corruptible and "absolute" voice of truth.

I am all seeing/alll knowing. I have my kids convinced that I have eyes in the back of my head! Wouldn't it be a hoot if Cuse/Lindhoff made appearances in the final episodes of LOST and they were the supreme all knowing beings!

There would be precedent. John Michael Straczynski, the creator of the epic sci-fi series Babylon 5, made a cameo appearance in the last episode. He played a worker whose job it was to blow up the Babylon 5 space station. LOL - maybe the creative team will cameo and blow up the island?

Back to real theories..... It wouldn't be a stretch to think [The Others] see themselves as watching angels. They are in fact watching from another realm/island. As it appears to us, their moral code is appalling, murder, kidnapping, lying, but they think of themselves as superior and good. Ordained by a higher power to do what they are doing.In Heinlein's book, we learn eventually why the Martians have sent Smith to Earth. (He didn't want to go, himself, but they made him. Martian society is one where everyone owes supreme & unquestioning obedience to the Old Ones - who happen to be the spirits of very wise dead Martians.)

Smith basically has come to earth as a human tape recorder - learning everything that he could about our planet. The Martians essentially make him cough up a "core dump" - and that's when Smith finds out that the Martians may not be that benign in their thinking towards Earth.

We also find that the reason we have an asteroid belt is because the Martians "grokked wrongness" in that planet. (In other words, it wasn't a "good" planet.) Even after these revelations, Smith doesn't judge the Martians as being "bad" or "evil" - they are acknowledged to simply have another, completely alien way of thinking about actions. They especially don't see certain actions as wrong (like Smith killing a policeman who is about to hurt his friend Jill) because they don't just believe in reincarnation, they *know* reincarnation is a certainty. Thus their morality is very different from peoples'.

Which is something of what we're seeing here, with the Others, perhaps.

In the book the guy from Mars was raised outside of mainstream society and brought down to Earth where he interacted with the more typical earthling, Here that could also apply to Karl who was raised in an isolated society, not even exposed to the Brady Bunch, and will now be joining a society where he interacts with people from the mainstream of life. I wonder if Karl will also have an effect? Will he too be ASiaSL?

Could it also refer to Aaron if he ever gets back to the "real" world? Just like VMS, we know who Aaron's mother is but his paternity is somewhat shaky. He was born in a strange place of human parents. He's being raised totally apart from the world of his parents. Might he have special abilities? Or might he develop special abilities because of where he was born? (The same parallels could be drawn for Sun's unborn child too.)

I have read through the posts in this thread (or, rather skimmed through them), and I didn't notice anyone mentioning a particular aspect that relates to the subject at hand. "Stranger in a Strange Land" was the inspiration for the creation of a new religion. I'm talking about real life here. Heinlein's book inspired a group of people in 1961 (the same year the book was published) to form a religious group called Atl that based many of their beliefs on the concepts that were discussed in Heinlein's book. The following year they formally organized as a religion, changing the name of the group to The Church of All Worlds, or CAW for short. In 1968 CAW was granted full recognition as an incorporated Church, making it the first Earth Religion to receive that status in the US. CAW is one of the oldest, if not THE oldest, NeoPagan religion, and is still very active and has many members. Here is a Wiki article about CAW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_All_Worlds

Now, what I'm wondering, is if there are any CAW people among the production team members? That might explain partly why there's an episode with this name...
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Okay, WOW!

I was just re-reading that article from Wikipedia about the Church of All Worlds (see my previous posting), and I came across this line:

"By the late 1990s CAW had increased membership internationally, becoming particularly strong in Australia where it became legally incorporated in 1992."

SO! CAW apparently has a STRONG FOLLOWING in Australia!

Okay, maybe that's stretching things...

Isn't the original phrase "stranger in a strange land" a biblical reference.from Exodus? (The book of the bible, not the Lost episode!)

"And Moses was content to dwell with the man [Reuel]: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter.
And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom: for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land."
-- Exodus 2: 21-22 (KJV)

I see the connection, but then, in the other life I am a bookworm, an English teacher (12th grade) and a writer...sort of.
I see connections everywhere...hmmm 'Sea Horse in the Sky' (1970's era SF) could also be a reference point but so could 'Rite of Passage' by Panshin...TPTB show every evidence of bookwormities maximus....:bigrinan:

I see the connections as well!!

@ all who posted here:

I absolutely enjoyed this thread.

Hey folks, I don't have too much to add but I wanted to contribute a few tidbits to this thread. My dad was best friends with Ginny Heinlein (Robert Heinlein's wife) even though she was quite a bit older. They became friends after Robert died. They became friends because he sent Ginny a condolence card and she wrote him back. They remained close until she died. He and her "granddaughter" even scattered her ashes into the Pacific.

I told my dad that this weeks episode was titled "Stranger in a Strange Land" and he was really excited. But, he doesn't watch Lost and I've never read the book so we didn't have much to discuss further. In addition to lecturing me about reading the book, he did tell me these random things that might be of interest to someone:

Robert did take the title from the Bible. He wasn't religious at all, but he had a deep understanding of it, especially the Southern Protestant religions (or is it denominations, well whatever...)

He and Ginny never discussed it but he had a strong feeling that the character of Patty Piwalski (I have no idea if I spelled that name right or not - I'm just basing my spelling on his pronounciation) was based on a real person.

Charles Manson - There were rumors that Charles Manson was influenced by Stranger and Robert was so upset about it he hired a private investigator to look into it - there was no truth to it.

Like I said, without having read it I don't have much to talk about, but I just wanted to share.

Hi, Noble Savage: you are thinking of the character Anne, who was a member of a guild called the Fair Witnesses. (They were a bit like Mentats in Dune - wonder who borrowed from whom?) They received special training in memory control and were certified to be utterly truthful - so much that they couldn't say what color a house was painted on, on the side they couldn't see. People would hire them and bring them into difficult or confrontational situations. They were observers, IOW - but very special ones who provided a non-corruptible and "absolute" voice of truth.

Thanks for clearing that up. Not the first time I've held a misreading for years - or even decades :redface:

I 'grew up' with Heinlein's books - I was in high school when Stranger was published and it had a profound effect on me. Of course, I was particularly interested in the 'free love' aspects, but even after all these years the concept that remains with me is: if you are in a place where you don't know/understand the rules, you should be cautious or be prepared for unknown/unexpected consequences. That was only a tiny sliver of the layers in the book, but somehow seems to apt in the context of this episode.
Jack, in both cases, is in an unknown (or not completely understood) set of circumstances, and yet interjects his own will (rightly and wrongly) into the mix. In the case of Thai tattoos, he gets an immediate, yet relatively mild, come-uppance. I suspect his actions vis-a-vis Ben and Juliet are going to be much more profound and let's hope not with the penultimate result a la the book.
Needless to say, I was so bemused by the episode title and it's potential relevance to the Lost story that I didn't find the episode as disappointing as others have simply because I was looking for something else in the story... Interesting experience for me, at least.

Oldwiz

I was so bemused by the episode title and it's potential relevance to the Lost story that I didn't find the episode as disappointing as others have simply because I was looking for something else in the story... Interesting experience for me, at least.Ditto for me. In fact, in a thread about what questions were answered, I posted remarks that could almost be a paraphrase of what you just wrote.

Ditto for me. In fact, in a thread about what questions were answered, I posted remarks that could almost be a paraphrase of what you just wrote.

Got a link? Love to read what you had to say...

Oldwiz

Got a link? Love to read what you had to say...

Oldwiz
OK but "almost paraphrase" could be overstating it. I think it reflects the feeling of looking for something else in the ep based on the title and Heinlen.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70218&page=11

OK but "almost paraphrase" could be overstating it. I think it reflects the feeling of looking for something else in the ep based on the title and Heinlen.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70218&page=11

I thought our posts dove-tailed nicely. I was able to watch Jack being his typical jerky self, at least in Thailand, without being overly bothered by it. Doesn't the guy ever shave, not to mention think?
His behavior in the 'present' was a more accurate fit with my perception of the main theme of the book and presents some good plot opportunites, at least. His behavior was actually rational on a certain level and showed a level of control and intelligence that he hasn't depicted much recently. Of course he had to blow up at Cindy, but that's just Jack, right...

Oldwiz

I was able to watch Jack being his typical jerky self, at least in Thailand, without being overly bothered by it. Doesn't the guy ever shave, not to mention think? So Jack is from Mars not Venus. His behavior and attitude actually do remind me of a surgeon I talked to one time.

I hope they do parallel stories with Jack as the stranger in one camp and Karl in the other(lost) camp. At this point Karl almost reminds me of the early part of the book more than Jack does. But that is going way back in my memory and this was not one of my favorite Heinlen books.

I don't really have anything new to add to the discussion except that there are quite a few intersting little coincidences between the book and Lost. There's Mike's array of special abilities, including slowing down time; "the cure (remedy) is worse than the disease", as seen on the blast door map; Dr. Apollo, Mike's magician name; Senator Boone of the Fosterite Church, to name a few.

Some other points about Heinlein's book not mentioned above: there is a religious cult called the "Fosterites" who look/sound like a Christian fundamentalist sect, but instead worship their founder Foster. They have an "outer circle" for "Seekers" and an "inner circle" for the "true believers. Valentine Michael Smith, the "Man from Mars," ends up starting a rival cult that arouses the Fosterites' anger against him, leading to his eventual martyrdom.



Hmm. Kind of gives new meaning to Cindy's statement that "we are here to watch." Maybe the tailies are "watchers" in a different sense than other people posting here have suggested. Maybe they are the "outer circle," watching the goings-on, while Ben and his close cohorts are the "innter circle."