Here it is again. Uttered by Karl in the Jungle. A result of the brainwashing, Biblical teaching or a reference to Jacob, the King of the Others??

Here it is again. Uttered by Karl in the Jungle. A result of the brainwashing, Biblical teaching or a reference to Jacob, the King of the Others??

Perhaps karl has been in that room more than once, also when i was little i used to dress my cat to.

Yeah if they keep saying it then it must mean something. I don't know that much about the bible or even who Jacob is. (the Jacob in the bible, or the "Jacob's list" Jacob) I'll wait for somebody smart to tell me.

Karl didn't appear to be overtly affected by the sensory trauma he had just been subjected to. He appeared to be coherent and calm, distressed only by the loss of Alex. It seemed odd to me that he used this phrase, it just slipped off his tongue, like it was comfortable, it was something he had learned or used all of his life. Not something that had been force-fed to him from a sensory attack!

Yeah if they keep saying it then it must mean something. I don't know that much about the bible or even who Jacob is. (the Jacob in the bible, or the "Jacob's list" Jacob) I'll wait for somebody smart to tell me.
Jacob (later renamed Israel) is one of the patriarchs of the Bible, founder of the nation of Israel and the twelve tribes. There's all kinds of history there, the stuff we've seen that relates to Lost is that Ben was the youngest of his 12 sons, and arguably his favorite, as his mother, Rachel (Jacob's beloved), died immediately after giving birth to Benjamin.

Jacob was one of the twin sons of Isaac, who himself was Abraham's son. For most of his early life, Jacob was pretty much a swindler, but after starting his family became a great man, the father of a nation.

The Jacob's Ladder thing... IIRC, it was a dream of Jacob's, when he saw angels going up and down a staircase to heaven. God was telling him something... I forget at what point of his life though. I think it was around the time he was fleeing his brother Esau, before he married and had children, but my memory is foggy on that one.

The thing about Jacob (bible) was that he was a trickster. His brother Esau was supposed to get the family inheritance, but Jacob tricked his father (Isaac) into giving it to him instead. It was a complete mind game on the dad, and a sneaky thing to do, but God obviosly favored Jacob. The Others believe that God favors their experiments/mind games/way of life -- they are the "good" (chosen) people.

The thing about Jacob (bible) was that he was a trickster. His brother Esau was supposed to get the family inheritance, but Jacob tricked his father (Isaac) into giving it to him instead. It was a complete mind game on the dad, and a sneaky thing to do, but God obviosly favored Jacob. The Others believe that God favors their experiments/mind games/way of life -- they are the "good" (chosen) people.
Small correction. Esau sold his birthright (inheritance) to Jacob for a bowl of stew when he returned home from hunting. God disfavored Esau because he placed so little value on his birthright as to trade it away for a full stomach. Jacob certainly wasn't innocent, but Esau willingly gave it up.

The thing about Jacob (bible) was that he was a trickster. His brother Esau was supposed to get the family inheritance, but Jacob tricked his father (Isaac) into giving it to him instead. It was a complete mind game on the dad, and a sneaky thing to do, but God obviosly favored Jacob. The Others believe that God favors their experiments/mind games/way of life -- they are the "good" (chosen) people.

The cookoo crazies always think they are the good chosen people, that's why Benry freaks me out so much-he really seems to believe his own line of bull, and the true believes are always the scariest crazies.

I can deal with the hustlers that are just lying to get money out of people, but the ones who really believe their own hype (as Benry seems to), they are scary!!

Carl says this when Sawyer wonders out loud what "Captain Bunny Killer" would do if they returned to the little islet. It's like he's saying..."He would kill YOU...God loves YOU as he does Jacob." We're led to believe that he's still rambling, but what if he's really telling them that they are on the list?

I think there's one very, very, very important thing about Jacob to consider.

In Romans 9:13 of the New Testament the Apostle Paul quotes God's words in the Old Testament book Malachi, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

This entire passage is about how God chose the people of Israel and now chooses those who trust in Jesus. It is a moment of great theological tension between the ideas of FREE WILL and FATE or what theologians refer to as election or predestination.

This season free will and fate have become the theme of Lost. Time also plays directly into free will and fate this way: If God or the universe or the island knows that you will eat a coconut Thursday, do you have a choice about whether or not you will eat a coconut Thursday? If God truly has all knowledge of current and future events, for you not to eat the coconut would mean he is wrong. If you believe he has all knowledge of future events, you therefore must believe it is your fate to eat the coconut.

It's also important to note that fate vs. free will was introduced the very first scene of Season 3 when Juliet, in the book club reading Carrie (I've never read Carrie. Can someone tell me how it deals with free will vs. fate) Juliet announces that she still believes in free will--even though Ben doesn't.

Desmond also struggled with the issue of fate vs free will in Flashes before my eyes. I think we will find this is central to this entire season and maybe the series.

Just a thought... the producers say they would like to have 100 episodes. This puts Desmond turning the key at the end of Season 2 just about at the middle of the 100 episodes. What if that's the moment when everything changes? What if everything up to that point was what led up to that fated moment and everything from here on out is the result of Desmond turning the key?

Carl says this when Sawyer wonders out loud what "Captain Bunny Killer" would do if they returned to the little islet. It's like he's saying..."He would kill YOU...God loves YOU as he does Jacob." We're led to believe that he's still rambling, but what if he's really telling them that they are on the list?

Hmm, interesting point you make. Perhaps the others have "done away" with Jacob (or he died) and now Ben is just using his list? Maybe the list is prophetic and the people follow Ben because he appears to be a prophet?

GOD LOVE YOU AS HE LOVED JACOB...
In episode 7 (sorry for posting this at episode 9) attached to this passage there are images of steps which make me think of Jacob's Ladder .
and these are some references from the Book of Genesis (28:11-19): "Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done that of which I have spoken to you." Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."
maybe there is something related to their mission on this island: they have been brought here - "i will bring you back to this land", to reach their goal - "for I will not leave you until I have done that of which I have spoken to you", and could be some "gate" to something better, or a place where you may undone some bad things you've done or to "save humanity".

I saw something about Jacob on the net saying that Jacob is a acronysm for Paulo.

If u pick 'J' and put to the right you have a L.
The letter 'a' stays as 'a'.
The letter 'c' will turn left and becomes 'u'
The letter 'o' stays as 'o' too.
The letter 'b' will turn 180o and you will have a 'P'.

And then you have: L A U O P, putting in the order, you will have: PAULO. The name of one of the Losties.

Maybe Paulo is Jacob? :huh:

I saw something about Jacob on the net saying that Jacob is a acronysm for Paulo.

If u pick 'J' and put to the right you have a L.
The letter 'a' stays as 'a'.
The letter 'c' will turn left and becomes 'u'
The letter 'o' stays as 'o' too.
The letter 'b' will turn 180o and you will have a 'P'.

And then you have: L A U O P, putting in the order, you will have: PAULO. The name of one of the Losties.

Maybe Paulo is Jacob? :huh:

Ha ha. Interesting, though.

[quote=jonathan_ftw;1396111]
In Romans 9:13 of the New Testament the Apostle Paul quotes God's words in the Old Testament book Malachi, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

This entire passage is about how God chose the people of Israel and now chooses those who trust in Jesus. It is a moment of great theological tension between the ideas of FREE WILL and FATE or what theologians refer to as election or predestination.

This season free will and fate have become the theme of Lost. ....[quote]


I agree, free will vs fate does seem to be a thread running through these episodes. Election or predestination could be a thread that runs through all three seasons in my opinion.:biggrin: Nice first post!