Does that mean he has been on the island his whole life?

Ben said he had been on the island his whole life, but he knew enough to know that the Red Sox winning the World Series was a pretty big deal?

Ben said he's been there his whole life- does that mean he's never left for a vacation?

We saw Ethan in America in Juliet's episode- was he there on a visit or had he been recruited and was waiting for transfer?

My guess is the kids have been there their whole lives. Just because they can communicate with the outside world doesn't make me think it is easy or convenient at all for them to visit it.

And I get the distinct feeling that they view the outside world as a bad influence.. corrupt.. So I'd guess they're shielding the inhabitants from it..

In the scene at beginning of the season where Ben was showing Jack the real-world clips of the World Series, etc.. he had such disdain in his voice when saying "your president was re-elected"... He wasn't having any part of that..

I think Carl has been there his whole life. Makes sense.

I don't know about Brandy Bunch. I had never heard of it before this episode. What is it?

EDIT: Nevermind, checked on wiki

It's funny though - I'm a 37 year old graduate student. Many undergrads at my school have never heard of The Brady Bunch either, as well as things that aren't even as dated as that show.

Some kids aren't allowed to watch TV!

And I get the distinct feeling that they view the outside world as a bad influence.. corrupt.. So I'd guess they're shielding the inhabitants from it..

In the scene at beginning of the season where Ben was showing Jack the real-world clips of the World Series, etc.. he had such disdain in his voice when saying "your president was re-elected"... He wasn't having any part of that..

I agree. Even though they seem to be able to monitor what goes on, I think that part of their eutopian society would include sheilding the kids from any outside influence. Karl has probably not watched TV or watched that much TV so he has no idea what the Brady Bunch is. I would like to know just how many of the Others have grown up on the island.

All Ben lets the kids watch is Major League Baseball and Woody Woodpecker cartoons.

I also thought it was interesting that Karl never heard of the Brady Bunch. Either he's been on the island the whole time, or he just never watched TV, or heard any pop culture references.

I was wondering about that, too - how many American 16-year-olds would get the Bobby Brady reference?

I was wondering about that, too - how many American 16-year-olds would get the Bobby Brady reference?

But if he's been born and raised on the island he's not American. :shrug:

But if he's been born and raised on the island he's not American. :shrug:

Right, but the fact that he doesn't know The Brady Bunch is supposed to tip Sawyer and us off that he's been "sheltered" somehow. I'm saying, is that really so odd for someone his age not to react to being called "Bobby"?

Ah an American thing then :) Im from the UK and though I have heard of the Brady Bunch, I have no idea who or what they are.

Also, remember when Carl said they take the kids so that they can have a better life?

The idea I think is behind this is, is just like the communes of the early 19th Century in the U.S. People gathered together and physically, not to mention spiritually and mentally removed themselves from the outside world so they could give a complete focus on their beliefs and what they thought an ideal society should be.

I think this is a perfect example of what the Others are doing.

Ah an American thing then :) Im from the UK and though I have heard of the Brady Bunch, I have no idea who or what they are.


Me neither.

And as they're selling this show all round the world, there's going to be a whole lot of people who will find that comment completely meaningless. :undecide:

he had such disdain in his voice when saying "your president was re-elected"... He wasn't having any part of that..

If I had to remark on the re-election of George W. Bush I would have a similar level of disdain. And I'm not part of some wacko cult. I don't think his disdain is particularly meaningful, just the normal reaction of a human being with half a clue.
100%
Me neither.

And as they're selling this show all round the world, there's going to be a whole lot of people who will find that comment completely meaningless. :undecide:

I don't understand half of what Sawyer gets on about. I think if I was in the presence of a person like this I'd spend most of my time examining my fingernails or clouds or something.

i think we are to assume karl has never left the island(s) but as i asked on another thread why is ben so against him being with alex. he has been brought up on this island. isnt he everything he the perfect match for her according to the others utopian society plan.
the only thing i can think of is that danielles husband was killed but taken and the father of karl as well as alex, so the others dont want siblings hookin up. but that may be farfetched and too soap operaish

The Brady Bunch reference may be referring to a Utopian Society. Have you seen that show? That family scares the poop out of me. The parents are perfect, the children are perfect, and the maid does everything around the house. Really, who lives like that, even back then. The house is spotless. Last time our house was so clean was when we MOVED in it.

Sorry, losing it a little bit. Too much to read over from everyone!

This doesn't surprise me a bit. Once in the office i work in we were discussing John Lennon, specifically if anyone could remember the name of who shot him. We couldn't which is good he doesn't need to be famous for murdering... but a young girl around 19 at the time chimed in that she didn't know either and who is this John Lennon fellow anyways? Totally serious she was and I was astounded. But after i thought about it Lennon was gone way before she was born and i suppose her parents didnt think it was important enough to teach her musical history.

I believe Lennon had more of an impact on the human experience than the Brady Bunch... so it doesn't surprise me a bit Karl being unaware.

Maybe Sawyer should have called him "Ringo" for us to really know for sure. ;)

He could have been recruited off-island but not in the US. Him not knowing Bobby from the Brady Brunch doesn't confirm anything.

By the way...when Sawyer said Bobby, I first thought it was about Bobby's World ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby's_World ), because Karl was brainwashed and was saying supposedly non-sense stuff, living in his own imaginary world inside his head....just like Bobby.

But then, he explained it was from the Brady Brunch. I know it only through references in other US TV shows...and all I know it is about a happy family. Never really wikied it.

In the end, I thought it would be funnier if he said it was from Bobby's World. ;)

By the way, I'm 26.

He could have been recruited off-island but not in the US. Him not knowing Bobby from the Brady Brunch doesn't confirm anything.

By the way...when Sawyer said Bobby, I first thought it was about Bobby's World ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby's_World ), because Karl was brainwashed and was saying supposedly non-sense stuff, living in his own imaginary world inside his head....just like Bobby.

But then, he explained it was from the Brady Brunch. I know it only through references in other US TV shows...and all I know it is about a happy family. Never really wikied it.

In the end, I thought it would be funnier if he said it was from Bobby's World. ;)

By the way, I'm 26.

The Brady Bunch was shown throughout Europe in the 1970s and was very very popular in Holland where it was called something like "Oh What a Family!" I don't think it was re-run as much outside of the USA.

Don

It looks more like information on the outside world is restricted to the head honchos. But it is an interresting point: if, as we have discussed so much, the Others have reproduction issues, were did Karl come from? We know Alex is Danielle's daughter, who has 8 months pregnant when she reached the island. Karl clearly was not on the 815, so how did he appear on the island?

This doesn't surprise me a bit. Once in the office i work in we were discussing John Lennon, specifically if anyone could remember the name of who shot him. We couldn't which is good he doesn't need to be famous for murdering...

Kind of OT but he is actually going to be "famous for murdering." They've made a movie about the whole thing, starring Jared Leto as Mark David Chapman. So I guess in the long run he's getting his wish.

The Brady Bunch reference may be referring to a Utopian Society.

I think it was simply chosen by the writers as a (supposedly) universal reference - at least to the US audience. The Bunch have pretty much ALWAYS been visible in some form, be it the original TV series, reruns of same, spin-offs, parodies on other TV shows, and a recent series of theatrically released motion pictures and made-for-TV movies.

mnw

By the way...when Sawyer said Bobby, I first thought it was about Bobby's World ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby's_World ), because Karl was brainwashed and was saying supposedly non-sense stuff, living in his own imaginary world inside his head....just like Bobby.

But then, he explained it was from the Brady Brunch. I know it only through references in other US TV shows...and all I know it is about a happy family. Never really wikied it.

.

thats a thing i wantedto point out.it spoke volumes that Sawyer just went a little too far,with his explanation.just like they lost the boat to push the plot,he called Karl Bobby,just to explain that ''its a character off a famous com called the brady bunch''
well,if that isnt outta character i dont know whAt is(im not complaining as i know TPTB ve claimed that its the only way to evolve the story.with characters acting out of character)..
but imagine Sawyer calling Tom '' zeke'' and then pause and say that ''hey,im talking bout wizard of oz,darn it ''....touche!

It's funny though - I'm a 37 year old graduate student. Many undergrads at my school have never heard of The Brady Bunch either, as well as things that aren't even as dated as that show.Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. There is a Brady Bunch in their future.:p

I lived through the Brady Bunch era and a Bobby remark out of the blue like that would have gotten by me. Perhaps if there had been a lead in it might have worked. I think the writers forget that the mass audience is not made up of media geeks unlike the writing staff.

In The Brady Bunch televison show the Bobby character was played by an actor named Mike Lookinland. Hmmm.....So, therefore, interpreting this information in the Lost the way of looking for secret messages in everything we come across, we should read this to mean:

"Mike? Look inland."

Bingo! If you are looking for Mike (Michael), look inland. So now it becomes all abundantly clear. Michael's boat took him right back to the island and he is hiding out inland, smartly avoiding the shoreline where he is none too popular a man.

I wonder if the actor Mike Lookinland has a middle name.

Walter, maybe??? :eek:


:biggrin:

I think it was simply chosen by the writers as a (supposedly) universal reference - at least to the US audience. The Bunch have pretty much ALWAYS been visible in some form, be it the original TV series, reruns of same, spin-offs, parodies on other TV shows, and a recent series of theatrically released motion pictures and made-for-TV movies.

mnw

Agreed, also in that scene Sawyer gives a little more exposition to his Sawyer-isms than usual, apparently to emphasise his surprise that Karl hasn't heard of this ubiquitous all American family. My assumption is that we're supposed to think the Others are fairly isolated from the rest of the world (despite their obvious connections to it), however - as others (sic) have pointed out - many kids of his age out in the world, perhaps even in the US wouldn't necessarily know who "bobby" is, unprompted.

previous quote which didn't multi-quote for some reason:

he had such disdain in his voice when saying "your president was re-elected"... He wasn't having any part of that..

If I had to remark on the re-election of George W. Bush I would have a similar level of disdain. And I'm not part of some wacko cult. I don't think his disdain is particularly meaningful, just the normal reaction of a human being with half a clue.

Is it just me, or is the key part of that quote from Ben "your president"? I'm assuming Ben (or Ben's parents) originated from the US, which could well be wilful speculation on my part, but anyways - he's clearly having nothing much to do with the outside world.

i think if Ben was aware of more recent things that go on in the world then perhaps thats all they really know about. going back to the episode where Juliet was in the office in Miami looking at x-rays that she thought belonged to a 70 yr old women...was really a woman in her 20s...so perhaps the life span for some ppl on the island is shortened..like wat if Ben is only about 15 yrs old...cuz if hes been on the island his whole life and hes in his 40s...Dharma Init only began about 30 or so yrs ago..maybe Carol is only a young kid as well. I dont if any of this could make sense to the show..but i was just throwin it out ther..lol.

he had such disdain in his voice when saying "your president was re-elected"... He wasn't having any part of that..Speaking both as someone who voted against the current President and as a life long Democrat whose parents and grand parents were Democrats; I think people are reading too much into Ben's remark. I believe his remark was designed more to impress Jack that Ben was really current and had contact with the outside. I think his tone indicated surprise, that Jack was resistant to just taking Ben's word on events, rather than disdain for who was elected,

I don't know about Brandy Bunch. I had never heard of it before this episode. What is it?

EDIT: Nevermind, checked on wikiYou damn fool! You were innocent, free from the corrupt 70's kitsch of the Brady Bunch! Why, oh why did you have to go and Wiki it? Now you're stuck with such accursed knowledge just like all us Americans.

You could've been pure man...
100%
It's funny though - I'm a 37 year old graduate student. Many undergrads at my school have never heard of The Brady Bunch either, as well as things that aren't even as dated as that show.
They are a lucky few.

I think his tone indicated surprise, that Jack was resistant to just taking Ben's word on events, rather than disdain for who was electedYes, I agree. I mean, when Ben was describing the Red Sox winning the World Series, look at the look on his face when Jack keeps laughing, it's a look of "What? You don't believe me? What the heck?". I think Ben was offended Jack didn't believe him at that point, though why Jack wouldn't believe a word Ben says, I have no idea. :) :D

As for James' "Sawyerism" about the Brady's: he's a typical American, he thinks if it was popular here, that means that people in the remotest parts of the world should know about it too. :) The Brady Bunch ended before DHARMA finished building the facilities on the Island, so while they get a smattering of US pop culture (CD's, Stephen King books), it wouldn't surprise me to know that The Brady Bunch passed them by.

Karl reminds me more of Peter than Bobby; Peter was more dorky than the other two brothers, more akward. The big question is: Alex --> Marcia or Jan?

:biggrin:

I agree that the reference was definitely implying that Karl had not been exposed to pop culture but I am rather surprised that there are quite a few people on this board who don’t know The Brady Bunch. They started making that show before I was born and yet due to re-runs I could quote many episodes - even my daughter and nephews could, and this is in Australia. I think I’d be hard pressed to find someone I know personally who’s unfamiliar with the Brady Bunch.

I still think Karl was abducted from another plane crash (pre-Desmond but post-Danielle), possibly when he was just a boy.

Which still leaves several possibilities to explain his cluelessness about The Brady Bunch:

A.) Karl was abducted as an older child (11 or 12), but he just never watched much TV (maybe his family were missionaries?)
B.) Karl had repressed all of his memories of the life he might have lived outside of the island, due to all of the brainwashing he's underwent
C.) Karl was abducted as a very young child (when he was 3 or 4)...so even if he's technically an American, he has no memories of ever being exposed to The Brady Bunch in his daily life

I personally lean toward A, with C also being a likely possibility.

It looks more like information on the outside world is restricted to the head honchos. But it is an interresting point: if, as we have discussed so much, the Others have reproduction issues, were did Karl come from? We know Alex is Danielle's daughter, who has 8 months pregnant when she reached the island. Karl clearly was not on the 815, so how did he appear on the island?

I'm sure this will be an important "reveal" for future episodes. If the whole "Lost" thing is about an end of the world, or who gets to restart the world after an apocalypse then being able to mold children, before the apocalypse, would be a very important goal. It might be THE goal. Steering and controling these kids would be very important. But the introduction of the 815 passengers may be a threat to what they have accomplished with these children (including the 815 children who were taken). The Others would not want the 815 passengers to contaminate these "tabula rasa" children.

I have grown to think it odd why the Others, when they saw the crash, just didn't go and help out. They had a surgeon, facilities, homes, food. How many people died that could have been saved? Edward Mars, for one.

I thought the "Bobby" reference was fairly weak. I'm 50 and was 12 when the Brady Bunch aired. I didn't even come close to the reference and thought it was lame when it was revealed. If the purpose was to apply a nickname then this thread should compare Bobby Brady to Karl. Nobody is doing that. It may be important. I can't do it because even though I grew up in that era I never watched it. If I didn't watch it when it first came out I certainly wouldn't have caught it in reruns.

Now if the point was to show that karl is isolated from TV and a long timer on the island then this was a weak attempt. Why not reference something that an 18 year old should actually know. Just to say "Bobby" is ridiculous. How many thousands "bobby's" could this be? Did Sawyer actually think that Karl would get the reference? Sure, Bobby Brady is more likely to be identified by Sawyer, but much more likely by Locke, or Rose.

Of course, the creative team may be way ahead of us on this. Perhaps Bobby Brady will appear riding Kate's stallion, or will replace Hurley's Dave. Boy, we never saw that coming.

Oh well, I've rambled enough.

Maybe a reference to Michael Jackson would have been more appropriate.

I agree that the reference was definitely implying that Karl had not been exposed to pop culture but I am rather surprised that there are quite a few people on this board who don’t know The Brady Bunch. They started making that show before I was born and yet due to re-runs I could quote many episodes - even my daughter and nephews could, and this is in Australia. I think I’d be hard pressed to find someone I know personally who’s unfamiliar with the Brady Bunch.

Well I'm from the UK and certainly in the right age bracket to be familiar with the TV show the Brady Bunch, but there's no way (even under the circumstances) I'd get the reference to "Bobby" - I mean, Bobby Ewing? Bobby Kennedy? Bobby Brown ... naw, it's abit of a reach :-)

J

I likely think they're keeping television and such archetypical 'bad' things away from the children. I mean, look at everything so far. A 'better life' for the kids certainly woldn't ideally be one where they let them watch tv.

I likely think they're keeping television and such archetypical 'bad' things away from the children. I mean, look at everything so far. A 'better life' for the kids certainly woldn't ideally be one where they let them watch tv.Yeah they might turn out like us if they watch TV. :biggrin:

I'm only 19, but I picked up on the Bobby reference right away. Maybe it's because in my opinion, Karl looks a lot like an older version of Bobby (or just the brady males in general). The general reference seems to me that he seems to Sawyer like a generic suburban kid, and there's a bit of a meta-reference in that we already know that the Others live in a 50's style suburban village.

I wouldn't have gotten the brady bunch refercne without sawyer blatently telling me... i think the important hting is to note that carl has never heard of the BB. probably more than anything to signify his lack of a so called "normal childhood" where you watch TV, etc. also, the brady bunch was considered like the perfect family, right?
just seems to draw a bit of a paralell between giving a better life to children.

i guess i'm just getting old! i thought every knew the brady bunch; it was on reruns every day when I came home from school. maybe karl and the gang have satellite tv and don't have suffer through corny 70s sitcoms.

I grew up on the Brady Bunch and have probably seen every episode at least 10 times and the "Bobby" nickname went right by me. That whole scene was a waste of screen time in my opinion. What purpose did it serve other than to show us how love sick Sawyer is for Kate? Sawyer's nicknames have grown as tiresome as his pining for Kate has.

I have a 19 year old who was born and raised in the U.S. and he knows nothing of the Brady Bunch.

Why not reference something that an 18 year old should actually know. Just to say "Bobby" is ridiculous. How many thousands "bobby's" could this be? Did Sawyer actually think that Karl would get the reference? Sure, Bobby Brady is more likely to be identified by Sawyer, but much more likely by Locke, or Rose.

But you have to remember, Sawyer's nicknames just slip right off his tongue on the spur of the moment. I doubt he gave much thought to Karl's personal background before uttering the "Bobby" reference.

That pop culture reference made sense to Sawyer, and that's all that mattered to him. It just spewed right out of his mouth when he said it.

Yes, those references are like a nervous tic with James, for some people it's saying "like" every 5th word or "you know" at the end of a sentence or "You know what I mean", sorry "YaknowhatImean"? :)

In order I thought of:
Bobby Darrin
Bobby Kennedy
Bobby Rydell

Bobby Brady of the Brady Bunch did not occur to me

I thought the reference was pretty classic. What I'm more concerned with is Karl and Alex's relationship. I think they have been raised together as brother and sister. This is the scandal about why they can't be together, or why they would have to run away together. This gives Alex the edgey attitude she had and her apparent need to be bad.

I think the Brady Bunch is also a pretty appropriate metaphor for Dharma and its twisted sense of family. There's a story, of a man named Henry, and he's raising kidnapped children of his own...

Cheeseeeey. : )

I would have like Sawyer to have said "ok, little buddy" for a Gilligan's Island reference. Now there's irony in that, and comedy...something we like from Sawyer's nicknames. Sawyer could have told him Carl whether he preferred Maryanne or Ginger. Now that would have revealed something about Sawyer and developed character.

Oh well, maybe too "desert isle-ish".

But Jack would be the professor, Tom would be Alan Hale, Rose and Bernard would be the Hales. Kate is Maryanne and Ginger is Shannon.

Maybe Sayid is the Professor.

Who is Gilligan...Hurley (the rotund Gilligan).

Please tell me if I am stupid.

Caliban, I am fairly certain Sawyer has thrown out a Gilligan reference or two...somewhere in this fuselage labryinth is a list of all the sawyer-isms, and i bet your coconuts there's a reference to kate as maryann or something like that :)