First of all I love Thailand. My dated a girl from Phuket (she was a foreign exchange student at my school) and went to visit her last summer. Awsome country but....

23% of Thailand has AIDS. Jack just walked in to a building there and lets a girl tattoo him with a used needle, and a bowl of open stagnent tattoo ink

Not a very brilliant move if you ask me.

People dont always make the wisest choices, specially when it comes to sex. I'm sure he used protection. :p

There is a potential for contracting Aids anywhere in the world, that's why you really have to study who you are getting tatoos from. Secondly what about sleeping with people you just met? That's pretty stupid too.

I'm not saying that he didn't during sex. I'm sayin that he Bai Ling just pulled that stick out of that stagnent bowl of ink and started tattooing.
She didn't even rinse it off.
When I was there I got sick from drinking the water for a couple days. That ink went in his blood. :undecide:

Not to keep bringing up the sex part! but i don't think it's smart to sleep with people you just met, whether you use protection or not.

He should have slept with that prostitute in the first place. She was much more likely to have HIV than that needle.

Not to mention the fact that Jack couldn't figure out how to get a fish biscuit while Sawyer (and supposedly the bears) could. :biggrin:

I can't believe this discussion has reached two pages in length. I carry all my own tattooing needles when I travel to foreign countries.

Buuut... Jack didn't get electrocuted like Sawyer did...

seems like he didn't really CARE to get the fish biscuit, eh? That doesn't seem stupid.

As for the rest, though... yeah, not so smart... as the great Dave Chappelle once said, "You may not be whore... but you're wearing a whore's uniform."

All i'm saying is that the continuity of the show is on the line if a doctor goes to Thailand and gets some ink done with dirty needles. I am not a doctor and I have a bunch of tattoos and there was no chance I was gonna get one while I was in Thailand...
Especially when he saw her just pick up a stick and go at it.
Maybe I'm lookin to far in to it

There ARE doctors out there that SMOKE too. Dumb idea, yeah... threatening continuity of the show... not so much.

seems like he didn't really CARE to get the fish biscuit, eh? That doesn't seem stupid.

Well yeah...who prefers fish biscuits to toasted cheese sandwiches with little toothpicks in them? :undecide:

Well yeah...who prefers fish biscuits to toasted cheese sandwiches with little toothpicks in them? :undecide:

Now I want a grilled cheese sandwich. :)

***MOD EDIT...we have minors on this site..***

Bai ling = perfection...


But I don't know that I'd let her tattoo me

Not to mention the fact that Jack couldn't figure out how to get a fish biscuit while Sawyer (and supposedly the bears) could. :biggrin:

Jack didn't hit the button a third time and get shocked like Sawyer did. he figured that out right away. No, Jack wasn't being smart or careful. He left home to get away from his dad and Sarah and was in a rebellious mood. He was sick of playing it safe and being the good guy. That was the point.

Jack didn't hit the button a third time and get shocked like Sawyer did. he figured that out right away. No, Jack wasn't being smart or careful. He left home to get away from his dad and Sarah and was in a rebellious mood. He was sick of playing it safe and being the good guy. That was the point.

Good point... Doesn't justify his actions though, being a doctor and all. I mean, he did try to give that woman his blood in season 1. A little risky if you ask me

he did try to give that woman his blood in season 1.

Jack tried to give his blood to Boone, didn't he?

yes, he gave his blood to boone Michelle. As for the fish biscuits. I don't think he was really interested in finding out what it was. He did get a grilled cheese sandwich, so it wasn't like he was starving and had to find out how to work the button with a knife and a fork on it to get food. Sawyer either figured out food was going to come out or is more inquisitive than Jack.

Someone who goes on a sabbatical from life in order to find themselves to another country such as Thailand probably is open to doing things completely outside their normal life and rules. If you try to draw any meaning from this scene regarding Jack taking a risk such as this, I believe this is it.

Also, I think it is important to draw a parallel between Jack in Thailand and Jack with the Others. In both cases, he is out of his element. The difference of course is that in Thailand, he was there on his own accord. If we conclude that under duress Jack is capable of doing things outside his normal morals/ethics/whatever (such as letting Ben die), then we must assume that there is the potential for Jack to do some very shocking things before the end.

What I believe we should gather from all of this is that Jack is intelligent (despite this thread's assertion), resourceful ("when I want the guns, I'll get the guns") and ruthless (threatening to let Ben die). This makes him similar to Ben in that regard. I think Ben knows this and sees Jack as an adversary. In the coming episodes, I believe we will see Jack divide the Others just like Ben did.

yes, he gave his blood to boone Michelle. As for the fish biscuits. I don't think he was really interested in finding out what it was. He did get a grilled cheese sandwich, so it wasn't like he was starving and had to find out how to work the button with a knife and a fork on it to get food. Sawyer either figured out food was going to come out or is more inquisitive than Jack.

Sawyer had a lot more time on his hands and absolutely nothing to do, so that would explain why he would seek some form of entertainment. Sawyer acted like an animal in a cage which is probably why he figured out the food test that was made for animals, where as Jack was still trying to figure out the situation he was now in, and how it might change. He had bigger things to worry about.

All i'm saying is that the continuity of the show is on the line if a doctor goes to Thailand and gets some ink done with dirty needles. I am not a doctor and I have a bunch of tattoos and there was no chance I was gonna get one while I was in Thailand...
Especially when he saw her just pick up a stick and go at it.
Maybe I'm lookin to far in to it

It's not so much of a "continuity issue" as it is a "Nit Picking" issue.

What's next... Jacks part was on the wrong side of his hair?

In the history of aviation crashes have you ever heard of anyone surviving a crash like the one they where in.. let alone the numbers the survivors have?

So he slept with a Native and got a tattoo.... Lots of military men have done both and survived it. Leave it alone...

And for the record Hepatitis would be far more of a danger then aids when it comes to needles.

What's next... Jacks part was on the wrong side of his hair?
.

Probably... I think he saves people too much too. :rolleyes:

In the history of aviation crashes have you ever heard of anyone surviving a crash like the one they where in.. let alone the numbers the survivors have?

So he slept with a Native and got a tattoo.... Lots of military men have done both and survived it. Leave it alone...

And for the record Hepatitis would be far more of a danger then aids when it comes to needles.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/22/newsid_3717000/3717502.stm
All I did was type in plane crash survivors... and that was in 1972

The point of this thread was to point out that Jack is suppose to be a doctor and made a huge mistake (in my opinion). I never said anything about him sleeping with Bai Ling, thats irrelevant.

The reason I bring up AIDS is because he is suppose to a medical professional and he is in Thailand. Which is a country widely known for being the 2nd in AIDS/population ratio.

100%
By the way...
this thread has nothing to do with morals
I don't really care who Jack or "military men" sleeps with

The question is, is what he did smart? Would you go to Thailand, follow some girl to a building, and then let her tattoo you with a dirty needle knowing the possibility of a disease like AIDS?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/22/newsid_3717000/3717502.stm
All I did was type in plane crash survivors... and that was in 1972

The point of this thread was to point out that Jack is suppose to be a doctor and made a huge mistake (in my opinion). I never said anything about him sleeping with Bai Ling, thats irrelevant.

The reason I bring up AIDS is because he is suppose to a medical professional and he is in Thailand. Which is a country widely known for being the 2nd in AIDS/population ratio.

100%
By the way...
this thread has nothing to do with morals
I don't really care who Jack or "military men" sleeps with

The question is, is what he did smart? Would you go to Thailand, follow some girl to a building, and then let her tattoo you with a dirty needle knowing the possibility of a disease like AIDS?
Interesting link, yankee! You do know that was the famous group whose story was told in the book and movie "Alive" who survived by eating the flesh of their dead friends.
It's true that it was not smart to have sex with a near-stranger there (um, or anywhere). We don't know that he didn't use protection; he probably did. Still that's not a guarantee against STD's.
As for the tattooing, let's give them license for dramatic effect. How would it have affected the drama of the scene for him to say "Put it on me" and then follow up with, "Please make sure you use new needles and open a new jar of ink." Kind of a drama killer for the scene, which ended with the imprint of his tattoo and cut to the same shot of his tattoo back on the island.
On the other hand, we have to assume Jack was in a fairly self-destructive state of mind since this almost certainly followed the ATOTC flashback where he'd been brutally cheated on and dumped by his wife, and had a violent confrontation with his dad. He probably didn't care much about long term health issues at that point.

Can you link to the statistics about AIDS prevalence in Thailand? I couldn't pull it up quickly. Thanks.

If it turns out that Jack has AIDS/HIV/hepatitis or whatever, I'll be happy, because that will mean that this stupid flashback had a POINT after all.

Not to keep bringing up the sex part! but i don't think it's smart to sleep with people you just met, whether you use protection or not.

I would totally sleep with Jack the minute I met him (if I were single). :hypocrit:

If it turns out that Jack has AIDS/HIV/hepatitis or whatever, I'll be happy, because that will mean that this stupid flashback had a POINT after all.

I thought the point of the flashback was to show the parallels between Anchara and Juliet - both of whom seemed to have influence and a gift (and a mysteriousness) in the beginning but turned out to be mere tools and facing "consequences" because of Jack forcing their hand.

Oh, and of course, what Jack's tattoo says.

Um, it's a TV show? There was never any risk.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/22/newsid_3717000/3717502.stm
All I did was type in plane crash survivors... and that was in 1972

The point of this thread was to point out that Jack is suppose to be a doctor and made a huge mistake (in my opinion). I never said anything about him sleeping with Bai Ling, thats irrelevant.

The reason I bring up AIDS is because he is suppose to a medical professional and he is in Thailand. Which is a country widely known for being the 2nd in AIDS/population ratio.

100%
By the way...
this thread has nothing to do with morals
I don't really care who Jack or "military men" sleeps with

The question is, is what he did smart? Would you go to Thailand, follow some girl to a building, and then let her tattoo you with a dirty needle knowing the possibility of a disease like AIDS?

Actually, one is more apt to contract Hep B & C than AIDS with tatoos. Healthcare workers worry more about contracting Hep B & C than AIDS which is why healthcare workers are required to get Hep B vaccines and titers to make sure that the vaccine is present in the blood system. I know of no vaccine for Hep C at this time; I could be wrong.

The needle Achara used is one used in many non-Western cultures for tatooing. Hawaiians also still make use of this method. Just an FYI.

Someone who goes on a sabbatical from life in order to find themselves to another country such as Thailand probably is open to doing things completely outside their normal life and rules. If you try to draw any meaning from this scene regarding Jack taking a risk such as this, I believe this is it.

The scenes that highlight this for me is the kite scene... he has no idea how to fly one so he's giving it a shot... and one of the hut scenes where Achara aske Jack if he's "having fun." The whole essence of his being there. "Sabbatical from life"... perfectly put.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/22/newsid_3717000/3717502.stm
All I did was type in plane crash survivors... and that was in 1972

This (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Mid-air_break-up#Historical_examples_of_mid-air_break_ups) should be more relevant.

Someone who goes on a sabbatical from life in order to find themselves to another country such as Thailand probably is open to doing things completely outside their normal life and rules. If you try to draw any meaning from this scene regarding Jack taking a risk such as this, I believe this is it.

Also, I think it is important to draw a parallel between Jack in Thailand and Jack with the Others. In both cases, he is out of his element. The difference of course is that in Thailand, he was there on his own accord. If we conclude that under duress Jack is capable of doing things outside his normal morals/ethics/whatever (such as letting Ben die), then we must assume that there is the potential for Jack to do some very shocking things before the end.

What I believe we should gather from all of this is that Jack is intelligent (despite this thread's assertion), resourceful ("when I want the guns, I'll get the guns") and ruthless (threatening to let Ben die). This makes him similar to Ben in that regard. I think Ben knows this and sees Jack as an adversary. In the coming episodes, I believe we will see Jack divide the Others just like Ben did.

Great post. Jack not only seems to be doing things outside of his normal behavior, but he seems to be looking for a fight and willing to take risks with his life. All of these actions will be a preview of what he will do as he walks among the Others. I think that Jack is realizing too that his destiny is to be a leader and that he will lead even while he is in captivity.
I have a question about the timing of the flashback: did Jack come back from Thailand to the hospital and then turn his father in for operating while drunk?

this is the most surreal thread i ve ever seen...Jack sleeping with ''Bai Ling'' without protection??????Aids ratio in Thailand??whats next??talking about percentage of spinal tumors in pacific islands and if shannon and sayid used contraceptives?????
thats preposterous!yet again helluva fun!keep it up!what about ''bai lings''tattoo skills?lame if you ask me...
:yikes::eek1:

Um, it's a TV show? There was never any risk.
There wasn't much of a risk anyway. This person is nuts if he/she thinks 23% of Thailand really has AIDS. It's more like 1.5%. I doubt 23% of prostitutes in Thailand have AIDS.

My feeling, as others have mentioned, is that he was feeling reckless, wanting to go a little nuts and be very "un-Jacklike" (anyone remember "so very un-Carl Fardmanlike" from "Seinfeld"?). I think the show did all they could to make Bai Ling look like a ho, and I have a feeling that that was part of what Jack was attracted to -- the very un-Jack and Sarah-ness of it. And I think he was willing to throw the dice on the safety of sex with a potential ho and being tattooed under "iffy" circumstances.

And this relates to one of the things I really don't like about Jack. Back when he was treating Sawyer for the headaches, he proceeded to ask Sawyer questions that would make him look bad in front of Kate (sex w/ a prostitute, STDs). He belittles others to promote his own surperiority. And now we find he is at least in that neighborhood of glass houses that Friendly mentioned.

Funny thing is this side of Jack was put onto the show because of the tattoo. Hey, if the tattoo thing is as cool as the writers say, then I'm all aboard, but the Jack characteristics coming out of the whole ride seem awefully strange in correlation to what we've seen from him. We'll have to see how it works out.

And this relates to one of the things I really don't like about Jack. Back when he was treating Sawyer for the headaches, he proceeded to ask Sawyer questions that would make him look bad in front of Kate (sex w/ a prostitute, STDs). He belittles others to promote his own surperiority. And now we find he is at least in that neighborhood of glass houses that Friendly mentioned.

But Jack was only this way for one part of his life, Sawyer is like this all of the time. That's the difference. You can belittle someone for having the same characteristics as you did if you have changed, which Jack obviously did change.

You can belittle someone for having the same characteristics as you did if you have changed, which Jack obviously did change.
I disagree. I don't think belittling somone is okay even if you've grown in your own behavior. If indeed you have grown, why try to make someone else feel small? Maybe it's better to lead by example. Jack belittles and bullies -- not all the time, but he does. This doesn't make Sawyer less culpable for his behavior. I was only talking about Jack since this thread is about him. Sawyer has his own set of problems.

Exactly. Look at Jack versus Locke during season 2.

But Achara wasn't a prostitute, so you can't say that Jack slept with a prostitute like Sawyer did.

I don't think belittling somone is okay even if you've grown in your own behavior. If indeed you have grown, why try to make someone else feel small?

Because it's Sawyer we are talking about lol. The only way to deal with Sawyer is to come down to his level. Jack tried to be mature with Sawyer in the beginning but it wasn't worth it, so he decided to "play around" with him instead. I'm actually glad he did, because Sawyer deserved it. :biggrin:
100%
Exactly. Look at Jack versus Locke during season 2.

And I have the same argument as it applies to Locke. If you are going to act like a child (like Locke) then why not treat that individual like a child? You aren't going to force a grown adult to change, so you just have to adapt to their immature behavior, like Jack has done.

With regards to Jack bullying people, well, who hasn't bullied someone on the island? If you are going to call Jack a bully, then you have to apply the same attribute to people like Locke, Sawyer, Jin etc., because they have all done that on numerous occasions.

First of all I love Thailand. My dated a girl from Phuket (she was a foreign exchange student at my school) and went to visit her last summer. Awsome country but....

23% of Thailand has AIDS. Jack just walked in to a building there and lets a girl tattoo him with a used needle, and a bowl of open stagnent tattoo ink

Not a very brilliant move if you ask me.
It's a TV show. I imagine they just didn't take the trouble of spending screen time on it.

Because it's Sawyer we are talking about lol. The only way to deal with Sawyer is to come down to his level. Jack tried to be mature with Sawyer in the beginning but it wasn't worth it, so he decided to "play around" with him instead. I'm actually glad he did, because Sawyer deserved it. :biggrin:
100%


And I have the same argument as it applies to Locke. If you are going to act like a child (like Locke) then why not treat that individual like a child? You aren't going to force a grown adult to change, so you just have to adapt to their immature behavior, like Jack has done.

With regards to Jack bullying people, well, who hasn't bullied someone on the island? If you are going to call Jack a bully, then you have to apply the same attribute to people like Locke, Sawyer, Jin etc., because they have all done that on numerous occasions.
Don't take it so offensively. I'm just talking about Jack's personality. I'm not calling him a big fat bully, just someone who sees (or seemed to have seen) himself above others or superior. Sure, others have done this kind of thing too.

Don't take it so offensively. I'm just talking about Jack's personality. I'm not calling him a big fat bully, just someone who sees (or seemed to have seen) himself above others or superior. Sure, others have done this kind of thing too.

Oh I'm not taking it offensively at all lol. I just see a lot of double standards.

(or seemed to have seen) himself above others or superior.
now that little in-parentheses-note makes me one happy camper.

The only way to deal with Sawyer is to come down to his level.Now and then there's a bright moment... like Hurley and the manifest... gosh I loved that scene...

But Achara wasn't a prostitute, so you can't say that Jack slept with a prostitute like Sawyer did.Not this time, anyhow... *blinkblink*

Back when he was treating Sawyer for the headaches, he proceeded to ask Sawyer questions that would make him look bad in front of Kate (sex w/ a prostitute, STDs).Oh, come on. Can't the guy have a little bit of fun? If it'd been the other way around I bet the person who posted this quote would have thought it a great joke. First of all let's not forget Jack did examine Sawyer in spite of his nasty behavior. Little payback does no harm.
Sawyer plays games with Jack - Jack plays games with Sawyer. In the end, they both get to make fun of each other now and then. And we are entertained.

My feeling, as others have mentioned, is that he was feeling reckless, wanting to go a little nuts and be very "un-Jacklike." I think the show did all they could to make Bai Ling look like a ho, and I have a feeling that that was part of what Jack was attracted to -- the very un-Jack and Sarah-ness of it.
I do like this point, though. When Jack first came out of the cabin all smilin' and dressed down and bought the Cola I was like, "WTF is that Jack or is it a Matthew Fox home video?!" for a second.

If it turns out that Jack has AIDS/HIV/hepatitis or whatever, I'll be happy, because that will mean that this stupid flashback had a POINT after all.*sobs* now that's sad. cuz I thought the point was pretty clear...

Sawyer plays games with Jack - Jack plays games with Sawyer. In the end, they both get to make fun of each other now and then. And we are entertained.



:D We sure are!

But Achara wasn't a prostitute, so you can't say that Jack slept with a prostitute like Sawyer did.

I said "potential ho," meaning that we didn't know and Jack certainly didn't know whether she was or not. (And let's face it -- she definitely gave off that vibe.) He was engaged in this relationship for a month and didn't know. I felt that Jack didn't have the right to feel and act superior to Sawyer in this area. I'm not addressing Sawyer's behavior...we all know it's bad. But Jack sets himself up as better. If he's going to do that then he needs to actually be better. But he's not. He's just as flawed as everyone else. At least Sawyer doesn't pretend to be better than he is.

Jackaroo said, "Can't the guy have a little bit of fun? If it'd been the other way around I bet the person who posted this quote would have thought it a great joke."

No, I don't like to see anyone humiliated. And though it's true that I love me some Sawyer, when he gets nasty with his nicknames I don't think it's a great joke. I'm furious with him. Even if I don't like the person it's directed at, my heart aches to see them hurt like that. (And yes, I do know it's only a TV show! ;) )

I have to admit I find this thread quite funny. How many people here can honestly say at some point in their life they did not say to themselves " I wished I would not have done that" let he/she without sin cast the first stone, lol. I think it gave him more of a human look and not quite the superman look he had been trying to live up to. And my favorite quote " Death is Inevitable"

First of all I love Thailand. My dated a girl from Phuket (she was a foreign exchange student at my school) and went to visit her last summer. Awsome country but....

23% of Thailand has AIDS. Jack just walked in to a building there and lets a girl tattoo him with a used needle, and a bowl of open stagnent tattoo ink


While I respect your point, and it clearly wasn't the ideal decision...I do think you are grossly exaggerating the amount of people in Thailand infected with AIDS/HIV to prove your point.


Estimated total population, July 2005 - 64,233,000
Estimated number of people living with HIV, end 2005 - 580,000
Adults (15+)560,000
Women (15+)220,000
Children (0-15)16,000
Estimated adult HIV prevalence - 1.4%
Estimated number of AIDS deaths in 2005 - 21,000


Quoted from HIV and AIDS in Thailand (http://www.avert.org/aidsthai.htm). This data is backed up by every other source I was able to find. In fact, Thailand has been more proactive about their HIV situation than most countries over the past 15 years, and has been showing negative growth for quite a while even with their well-known sex trade.

That said, Jack was drinking and making bad decisions. Who hasn't? Getting a tattoo while drinking in and of itself is a bad move. So what. Getting married to a patient out of a need to save her wasn't a great idea either, but he did that too. By your reasoning Jack making bad decisions on the fly matches perfectly with the character's continuity.

Ok,so we have Aids,cancer,heroin,pregnancies...whats this?Jerry springer?whos gonna anagram ''jerry springer''?
tongue in cheek said of course...
yeah,cos you never know...:cool:

I said "potential ho," meaning that we didn't know and Jack certainly didn't know whether she was or not. (And let's face it -- she definitely gave off that vibe.) He was engaged in this relationship for a month and didn't know. I felt that Jack didn't have the right to feel and act superior to Sawyer in this area. I'm not addressing Sawyer's behavior...we all know it's bad. But Jack sets himself up as better. If he's going to do that then he needs to actually be better. But he's not. He's just as flawed as everyone else. At least Sawyer doesn't pretend to be better than he is.

Jackaroo said, "Can't the guy have a little bit of fun? If it'd been the other way around I bet the person who posted this quote would have thought it a great joke."

No, I don't like to see anyone humiliated. And though it's true that I love me some Sawyer, when he gets nasty with his nicknames I don't think it's a great joke. I'm furious with him. Even if I don't like the person it's directed at, my heart aches to see them hurt like that. (And yes, I do know it's only a TV show! ;) )

Oh good grief, Jack wasn't setting himself up as better than Sawyer, he was using the opportunity to get the better of Sawyer using Sawyer-like tactics and it was funny and Sawyer deserved it, even his little criminal girlfriend agreed he deserved it. Face it, Jack patiently lying in wait and then all of the sudden turning the tables on Sawyer are some the most entertaining scenes between those two.

Oh good grief, Jack wasn't setting himself up as better than Sawyer, he was using the opportunity to get the better of Sawyer using Sawyer-like tactics and it was funny and Sawyer deserved it, even his little criminal girlfriend agreed he deserved it. Face it, Jack patiently lying in wait and then all of the sudden turning the tables on Sawyer are some the most entertaining scenes between those two.
Well, we watch the same scene, but we perceive it in different ways. And we won't be changing each others' views. So what more can we say? At least we can alll enjoy a sometimes great program.:)

Folks, the intention of this thread wasn't to debate Jack's values/character vs. Sawyer's. The OP's initial point was that Jack may have made a wreckless decision when getting his tattoo.

Please stay on topic.