Has anyone else got the feeling that the Others are...(to quote Walt)...pretending?

Juliet's trial and branding seemed very false to me. Artificial even. What with their fake beards and fake blood I wouldn't be surprised if they faked Picketts death too.

I get the feeling the Others are driving Jack and Juliet together, just as they drove Kate and Sawyer together. But why? And is Juliet faking too or is she a pawn?

I think old Jack is getting Long Conned....

I think Danny is bein' prepped to set sail on the flamin' raft. He wouldn't let Sawyer leave.
I do agree with your thought of the trial bein' faked. Ben said that his plan to break Jack was shot when Jack saw the x-rays. Maybe this is the new plan. Seems to be working.

Has anyone else got the feeling that the Others are...(to quote Walt)...pretending?

Juliet's trial and branding seemed very false to me. Artificial even. What with their fake beards and fake blood I wouldn't be surprised if they faked Picketts death too.

I get the feeling the Others are driving Jack and Juliet together, just as they drove Kate and Sawyer together. But why? And is Juliet faking too or is she a pawn?

I think old Jack is getting Long Conned....


I think Pickett is dead, but that the trial was staged as suggested - as a Long Con regarding Jack's continued help.

Ben knows that Jack will stick up for Juliet when the chips are down.

And as for for Juliet - no doubt she still feels the long arm of Ben after 3 years on the island. She will not throw in with Jack easily. I'm sure she figures Ben is the one and only chance off the island.

very cool thought. These "Others" are experts in and cons. "Life's a stage..." and on this island each of the Others apparently plays a part.

I like this notion. It makes you pay much more attention to some of the secondary characters.

I had that thought too while I was watching the episode. Like they set up the "trial" so Jack only saw Juliet sitting in a chair looking desperate...

However, I think we're supposed to believe that Juliet is a sympathetic character based on her flashback in "Not in Portland". I truly believe she wants to leave the island (mainly to see how her sister is) and sees Jack as the best help she can get.

I like the theory of a fake trial. It definitely sounds like something the Others would pull. As far as a fake death? Not buying into it yet. I think Pickett is gone...thank goodness. What a nasty guy. There is certainly something happening with Jack and Juliet, but whether or not it is a product of the Others or something that is happening naturally, I do not know... I'm liking all of these "conspiracy theories" though! :grin:

I do not think the trial was staged. I do think Pickett is dead.

It was Jack's idea to go to Ben and save Juliet from execution. I don't think they had a plan in which they were banking on Jack doing that. Clearly they could have, but you could argue that anything anyone does is a step in a long con because someone else wanted them to do it for an unknown reason. I don't think it's the case here. Juliet would have been severely punished or killed if Jack didn't step in. It wasn't just a fun play trial for show.

My personal rule is that if there's a scene with both an Other and someone like Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc, you can pretty much assume what what we're being told is B.S. Only when an Other is talking to another Other ALONE, can you safely assume they're being legit. Was the trial staged? Since Jack saw it, most likely.

They've done such a job of making the Others untrustworthy that if there was to be a scene where Ben says water is wet, I wouldn't believe him.

Is Danny dead? That depends on whether you think Juliet's in on it, or if is she really being held against her will/on the outs with the rest of the Others. To fake his death, Juliet would have to be in on it.

I just think a lot of people have forgotten the costume room that Kate found at the medi hatch and Walts words "They are not who they say they are. They're pretending."

I don't see why Picketts death couldn't have been faked. There was barely any blood to be seen. He might have been wearing a bullet proof vest. I think the Others are tricking Jack (and the viewers) into trusting and sympathising with Juliet. I'm not convinced...even after NIP. The Juliet of three years ago may not be the same Juliet we are dealing with now. I still find her very shifty myself...

I've come up with a theory that the Others manipulation is designed to mold Jack into the new Ethan and have him finish Ethans mission (details here - http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70322) If I'm right then the fake trial and the fake death of Pickett would all be planned to drive Jack towards Juliet.

I think there is some weight to the theory that the others are pulling a long con on Jack. To see if he would turn his back on them or decieve them.

I think Jack was being set up. Remember Ben said "I want you to WANT to save my life." Well now Jack wanted to save Ben in order to save Juliet. He thinks he made that decision on his own, but the whole trial and branding scene was fake to get him to want to save Ben.

I think Pickett is dead, good riddance but I'm open to the trial being part of a con. I don't think Juliet's in on it though. I think she's a pawn.

I agree that Juliet's trial was staged, though Pickett is probably dead; maybe Juliet did them all a favor by shooting him as he'd become so out of control. I found last night's episode a little empty, so perhaps I was scrounging for meaning that wasn't there, but I've gone back to the idea that most of what the Others are doing is staged.

Juliet's trial may be staged and the others may be conning Jack, but to what end? What is the point of it all? He is going to save Ben now regardless, so why do they need to con him further?

I think there is some weight to the theory that the others are pulling a long con on Jack. To see if he would turn his back on them or decieve them.

I agree with this. Perhaps they are seeing if he is "worthy" of being an Other. They do need a surgeon and someone to take care of Ben. Jack acts like he doesn't care about Ben or Juliet, but when push comes to shove he does what needs to be done to show he cares.

Juliet is NOT an Other. I believe she was forced to work with them, and doesn't want to be there anymore than Jack does. We haven't seen an Other have a flashback, so I think the fact that Juliet has had one tells us that there is more to this character. We have already seen her rebel a bit before Jack even came along. Ben and company think that they have brainwashed her, but they haven't totally. The trial may very well have been fake, but if the Others wanted to use it as a bargaining chip, then why did they leave Alex of all people to be the middle man? I think the trial was real, and Juliet really did kill Pickett. However, now that Ben and the "Sheriff" lady know what Jack is willing to do for Juliet, they will try to play that relationship to their advantage. The Others have gotten to Juliet a bit, no doubt, so I think Jack is in for a challenge. How convenient, since his hobby is to fix troubled women.

I think Jack was being set up. Remember Ben said "I want you to WANT to save my life." Well now Jack wanted to save Ben in order to save Juliet. He thinks he made that decision on his own, but the whole trial and branding scene was fake to get him to want to save Ben.

Good point. I think it was staged too. And no matter how much we know about Juliette, and how she got to the island, I still think she's an Other. Even Ben said something along the lines of "no matter what you think, she's one of us" (sorry, I don't have the exact quote). I think she killed Danny but that everything else was faked.

I think the trial was real. The long con was the Others as hillbillies.

I believe the trial was staged. I also don't trust Juliet. Ben told her to go save Jack's friends, right? I think Ben must have known Juliet would have to use force against Pickett and therefore would not be sending her to her death because of it. I just think it's all about manipulating Jack. They need Jack to be their surgeon and will stop at nothing to win him over to help them. From the get go, Ben wanted him to fall for Juliet, using her resemblance to his wife. It's all a con IMO.

The comparison that can be drawn is the way Kate and Sawyer were clearly manipulated into sleeping together so that Jack could, in turn, be manipulated into seeing it, and, now, the way Juliet JUST HAPPENED to be on her way to Jack's cell as he was on his way to the new one. If they weren't manipulating Jack it would be totally illogical to move two "prisoners" at the same time. And just to let her out again 10 minutes later to go and chat to Jack. And then Alex just happens to turn up and give him the missing pieces of the puzzle. It could all just be bad TV writing, of course, but the evidence screams "long con".

While I'm still up in air about whether or not the Other's are "long-conning" Jack, another piece of evidence that can help support "Alex being in on it" is her part in Episode 6 "I Do", in which she's the one who tells Jack to try the door, which ultimately leads Jack to the monitor room to see Kate and Sawyer cuddling in the cage. This seems to be the moment which makes Jack decide to operate on Ben, so is this not Alex helping Ben's cause?

I definately think Pickett's gone, though. God bless his hated soul... "Get on your knees!" :biggrin:

Quick recap - bear with me here ...

When they wanted Jack to operate on Ben in the first place, they tried to get Jack to form an attachment to Juliet so that when she asked him he would want to do the job. Then Ben tried to get him to cooperate with promises of getting him home. They tried the gentle persuasion first, but that didn't work.
Then their tactics changed: they tried to get Jack to ally himself with Juliet thinking that she was so desperate that she wanted Ben killed. That didn't work either, so they got more and more aggressive, first convincing Kate that they were going to kill Sawyer and then leaving it up to Kate to persuade Jack. The final step was to manipulate Kate and Sawyer into having sex, with Jack as observer.

So now ...
Now they want Jack to do something else - look after Ben. They know he won't do it voluntarily, but they have observed that he *has* formed an attachment to Juliet. So step 1 is to get Juliet to ask nicely, which - surprise, surprise - doesn't work.
They can't afford to mess around with more persuasive tactics as Ben's infection needs treating urgently, and they have no Kate and Sawyer anymore for leverage, so they go straight for the most serious threat - they are going to kill Juliet.
Alex is an ideal candidate to take the message to Jack - she is already convinced that Ben & co are the bad guys because of what they've done to her boyfriend, so it wouldn't be hard to persuade her that they're going to kill Juliet. The fake trial follows, and they have once again achieved their objective.
Easy, wasn't it?! :rolleyes:

EVERYTHING we've seen so far was part of the con.
The only thing real was Ben's operation.

Well, what we don't know with Picket is what Ben told Juliet to do. Normally when the Others are chatting we're privy to the conversation too, but not that time. So, to me, that suggests their conversation wasn't as simple as we've been told.

Well, what we don't know with Picket is what Ben told Juliet to do. Normally when the Others are chatting we're privy to the conversation too, but not that time. So, to me, that suggests their conversation wasn't as simple as we've been told.

I think we can believe Ben (one of the few occasions!) when he's says that he didn't expect Jack to pull his little stunt in the OR. I think that development merely called for a slight change of plan, and despite being heavily sedated, Ben is as sharp as ever and has quickly devised plan B .... I think his words to Juliet probably suggested that she should use any means necessary to stop Pickett killing Kate and Sawyer.

I did think it was strange that they let Jack just run loose on the island with Alex when they were taking the message from Ben to the trial. Everywhere else they have taken Jack he has been handcuffed or blindfolded or both. It was a first to just let him go free with Alex. I think they definately wanted Jack to see the trial - staged or not.

I did think it was strange that they let Jack just run loose on the island with Alex when they were taking the message from Ben to the trial. Everywhere else they have taken Jack he has been handcuffed or blindfolded or both. It was a first to just let him go free with Alex. I think they definately wanted Jack to see the trial - staged or not.


Good point. Absolutely.

Plus nobody stopped him on the way? Come on! ;)

I did think it was strange that they let Jack just run loose on the island with Alex when they were taking the message from Ben to the trial. Everywhere else they have taken Jack he has been handcuffed or blindfolded or both. It was a first to just let him go free with Alex. I think they definately wanted Jack to see the trial - staged or not.
In theory, Alex broke the camera observing Jack before she let him out. Given that the Others were watching Juliet's trial, it's not too far fetched (in a TV world) that Alex and Jack could wander around unobserved for awhile.

I think Pickett is really dead, but the rest of the information surrounding Juliet is suspect. The latest turn of events fits in too neatly with what Ben said his plans were.

Do TPTB ever kick themselves for introducing the concept of the Long Con? On the one hand, it has made the show a lot more interesting, because we're always looking for double meanings. On the other hand, it seems to have increased the difficulty in giving the audience information they can take at face value.:rolleyes:

Yes, what Luce said, and I also agree with mikey-mike and shab that the Others are always on stage in front of the losties.

But I do think Danny is dead.

I think Danny is bein' prepped to set sail on the flamin' raft.Only if it is a viking style funeral for a dead Danny Boy:biggrin:

They have had problems predicting which way Jack would jump (note candlestick reference) The long con fake trial scheme is a little too complex for dependable results. It depends on Jack asking the right questions of Alex (selecting the right questions is not one of his stronger points), it depends on his having certain reactions and suggesting certain courses of action to Alex. I think a long con of this sort gives way too much credit to the Other's psychological and predictive abilities. It violates the KISS principle for workable plots.

Maybe Jack is planning a long con of his own, making the Others think that he is believing everthing they are setting him up to believe while in reality he is planning to not only escape from them but damage their whole operation so that they will leave the Losties alone.

going right ahead with my two cents...

Why the trial might be staged.

Last we saw of Alex was she was caught by 'the Others.' Then she appears at Jack's cage and informs him of what's going on with Juliet, right?

So here's what I thought,
Alex was told to inform Jack of Juliet's trial because they knew he'd take care of Ben in exchange for Juliet's release. They tried that by asking & seeing if he'd lie for her.
Alex didn't like this, of course - hence the pouting looks.

I was actually pissed at myself that it took until the Ben/Alex look-exchange before I figured the game out.

In fact I don't think Isabel answers to Ben, at all. She's superior to him in rank. Alex just told Jack that to make him cooperate (see that second of thought & the look on her face when she answers his question 'does Isabel answer to Ben').
I think this regardless of whether or not the trial was real. If Ben was in charge, Juliet needn't help Kate&Sawyer "escape," now would she?

I think Danny Pickett really is dead, but he might have been eliminated because he was a loose cannon and potentially dangerous. Not sure about this, though.

Why the trial was real

Juliet went ahead and shot one of their own - maybe with Ben's permission, but as said, he's not the boss.

Tom called Isabel the "sheriff" and she indeed came over to investigate.

Juliet's flashbacks indicate she has a heart, and a troubled one for that, and wants to go home - her wanting Ben dead was serious because she seriously doesn't like the Island and all that's going on there.

Even if they used that to get Jack to take care of Ben - that doesn't mean it was a fluke.

*points at first point in signature*

***


BTW - since we seem to be on a Biblical-reference spree (or is that just in my mind?) Izebel was the wife of a particularly bad king of Israel (Ahab), and she was practically the one in charge of the country for 22 years, doing all sorts of bad things...
that on a side note, though ;)

I was actually pissed at myself that it took until the Ben/Alex look-exchange before I figured the game out.

I took that look to mean something completely different ... but you could be right - it's so darn ambiguous that it could mean any one of a number of things.


BTW - since we seem to be on a Biblical-reference spree (or is that just in my mind?) Izebel was the wife of a particularly bad king of Israel (Ahab), and she was practically the one in charge of the country for 22 years, doing all sorts of bad things...
that on a side note, though ;)

Oooooh - nice catch! :biggrin:

I think it's quite possible Juliet is the master con in all of this twisted tale, going back even to Miami, and her 'research'...remember, she would'nt allow any clinical trials for her new wonder drug. She may well be a plant on the island, and Mittelos were the suckers that got her there. Her sister's pregnancy might not have been even real or not so 'exceptional' as we were led to believe, or maybe she just got lucky. Rachel could be part of the charade.

Anyway, seems to me our gal Jules knew how to shoot pretty darn well, for a meekling...

BTW...Ben said to Juliet in the 'muted meeting' that she was to get 'Ford and Austen a boat' so they could split. A lip reader confirmed it.

Oooooh - nice catch! :biggrin:

Thanks... it's scary, actually... the lecturer in church briefly mentioned her today - and I saw the episode this evening...

Gets scarier, though. The guy sitting next to me so reminded me of Christian...

And you're telling me I'm paranoid?

I think it's quite possible Juliet is the master con in all of this twisted tale,Agree - agree.

Gosh do I have it easy since I adopted my new attitude (signature line 1)

I think pickett is really dead. all of this makes sense, about juliet's trial not being real; but its so frustrating because i never know what to believe. I'm still stuck on the fact that I'm not sure that juliet wanting to kill ben was real! I'M SO CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!