Carl quoted this on boat and it seemed very ill-placed. Not to get too into Biblical Jacob, but his brother Esau was the firstborn yet Jacob was the favored one. I'm starting to get the feeling Jacob is maybe an idea or a credo, not a person.

I feel you on that one.

I think you're right.

Jack isn't going to be favored as Jacob because Jack is a leader. First borns, or leaders, are the ones who are treated the strictest, molded to be hard and to be leaders. At least I was raised this way while my brother got away with Holy Hell.

So I think the use of this phrase is a metaphor.

It is "...loved Jacob" or "...loves Jacob?" They would have totally different meanings...if Jacob (the person or the ideal) is still around, or if it's something from the past that they are trying to preserve...

Its LOVED Jacob.

I think it's just a biblical reference.

"God loves you as He loved Jacob"
This is a quote from the brainwashing video that Carl was watching

I think it's just a biblical reference.

With all due respect, RB, I don't think anything on this show can be dismissed as "just a reference", especially since we heard it twice in the last few ep's. The Jacob vs. Esau thing to me seems like the whole "you think you're the good guys - the elite - the 'chosen ones' - but God loves us (Jacob) and will see to it that we achieve our goals". JMO

Ahh, so "Jacob" is someone/something that no longer exists that they want to preserve/continue?

Maybe "Jacob" is the group. The only time (as far as I know) we've seen "him" mentioned is when Tom says "Jacob's list" and in the BW video. They never have said "him" in reference to Jacob. "Jacob's List" could be a list contrived by the regime.

Remember that the Biblical Jacob tricked his father into giving him the inheritance - which should have gone to Esau...a trick that involved manipulating his father's reality (making him think he was talking to his firstborn son)... But Jacob was favored by God - he was one of the "good ones." I think the Others identify literally with Jacob - and believe that their tricks and expiriments are somehow justifiable and good. BTW - I don't have a screenshot, but Jack's tatoo in Thai says "don't get on a plane with me" ;)

Remember that the Biblical Jacob tricked his father into giving him the inheritance - which should have gone to Esau...a trick that involved manipulating his father's reality (making him think he was talking to his firstborn son)... But Jacob was favored by God - he was one of the "good ones." I think the Others identify literally with Jacob - and believe that their tricks and expiriments are somehow justifiable and good. BTW - I don't have a screenshot, but Jack's tatoo in Thai says "don't get on a plane with me" ;)

That's exactly where I was going, Pad. The whole "God loves you" seems to show that maybe the Others are the "chosen ones" called to carry out God's (or whomevers) plan for an elite society, much like God's plan for Jacob. btw good one on the tatoo.

Jacob is also the name of the person that created "the list" (Hurley, Sawyer, Kate and Jack) to trade for Walt... this was mentioned when Jack flipped the script during Ben's operation.

"Jacob" means "trickster" or "supplanter" or, "held the heel." In the biblical story, when the twins were born, Esau was born first (heir) with Jacob holding Esau's heel (trying to prevent him from being first). Jacob tricks his aged father into getting the blessing meant for Esau.
So, I guess the reference is to those that would supplant, through trickery.

"Jacob" means "trickster" or "supplanter" or, "held the heel." In the biblical story, when the twins were born, Esau was born first (heir) with Jacob holding Esau's heel (trying to prevent him from being first). Jacob tricks his aged father into getting the blessing meant for Esau.
So, I guess the reference is to those that would supplant, through trickery.

True, but Jacob was also the one who had the twelve sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel. I wonder if there will be a reveal about how the Dharma groups are "tribes" of chosen people.

btw one of the twelve tribes is the "Tribe of Benjamin"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Benjamin

Jacob is also the name of the person that created "the list" (Hurley, Sawyer, Kate and Jack) to trade for Walt... this was mentioned when Jack flipped the script during Ben's operation.

Ben also asked for lists from Ethan and the guy that I don't remember the name of in "Tale of Two Cities". I'm not saying that Ben is Jacob, but the remark is similar, and I think NO coincidence.

True, but Jacob was also the one who had the twelve sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel. I wonder if there will be a reveal about how the Dharma groups are "tribes" of chosen people.

btw one of the twelve tribes is the "Tribe of Benjamin"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Benjamin

I like this reasoning, We were discussing this connection with the ep that had Juliet's flasback, because Jacob had so many children, and Juliet was involved in fertility research/experiments. I would have left the connection with that, but this list. It's Jacob's List that is really throwing all of it off.
100%
I think it also important to clarify that Jacob didn't trick his father into giving him the birth right. The Biblical tale reveals that Esau gave Jacob the birth right in exchange for a bowl of stew.

I think Ben was telling both Ethan and that other guy, the one Ana Lucia killed after catching him out about being dry when all the other Tailies were wet, that he wanted a list compiled of the good ones. Which, incidnentally, is what he said to Locke. Also, on the dock of the Pala Ferry, didn't two guys argue over Ben's tampering with Jacob's list? I may be remembering it wrong. Somebody have the details of that conversation at the end of season 2?

This really reinforces the sibling nature of so much of the island. I really think we're going to find out that a lot of these parents have been in on the experiment from the beginning and have had to make choices about which children to "sacrifice," which ones to favor, etc. I think we're going to find out that a lot more of the characters are related (like Jack and Claire) and that they've been placed in different settings to observe how they'll react to different environments (hence the guilt and self-destructiveness of so many of the parents).

I thought it was telling in the new recap that they noted how Charlie and Claire were the closest thing to a "nuclear family" on the island -- this is a place that's experimenting with a new family structure (and is thus a metaphor for the modern world). Jacob fought for and tricked his father into giving him the birthright...something everyone on the island is looking for.